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>> Welcome to It Is Written
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Canada.
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Thank you for joining us.
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God Himself gave Adam
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a companion, He provided a
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help mate for him, a helper
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corresponding to him,
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one who was fitted to be his
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companion, and who could be one
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with him in love and sympathy.
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>> Eve was created from a rib
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taken from the side of Adam,
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signifying that she was not to
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control him as the head,
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nor to be trampled under his
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feet as an inferior,
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but to stand by his side
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as an equal,
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to be loved and protected
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by him.
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>> According to marriage
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researcher Dr. John Gottman in
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his book The Seven Principles
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for Making Marriage Work, the
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determining factor for the
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happiness of marriage for both
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men and women was the quality of
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the couple's friendship.
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>> Marlon and Doreen Cliffe are
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our special guests on It Is
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Written Canada today.
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They are certified Gottman
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educators for the Seven
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Principles for Making Marriage
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Work, Certified Prepare
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Enrich Facilitators, Caring for
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the Heart Ministries lay
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counsellors and marriage
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wellness coaches.
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>> Doreen and Marlon, thank you
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for joining us on It Is Written
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Canada today.
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>> It's our pleasure to be here.
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>> Yes, good to be here.
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>> So talk about
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what is good that's happening
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in good relationships.
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>> Mmm, intimacy.
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"Into me see."
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And that requires being
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vulnerable and taking a risk to
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opening up to each other and
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creating that safe space
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to be able to do that.
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>> So intimacy, you said, "Into
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me see," so you're taking that
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word, "intimacy," and turned it
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into three words.
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So I'm thinking about that.
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Who allows you to see into me
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is me.
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So you're right.
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I mean, creating that
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safe place.
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I have to feel safe
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in order to allow you to
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see into me.
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Okay, and that's more than just
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sexual intimacy.
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We're talking about intimacy on
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who I really am and that's
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much more vulnerable.
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>> Yeah, emotional intimacy is
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probably the most vulnerable,
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and, you know, looking into
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your heart.
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>> Doreen and Marlon, can you
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tell us what the three
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ingredients or the three key
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ingredients are to
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creating this
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intimacy, safe space,
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and even a friendship.
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>> Yeah, so the three
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ingredients for creating a
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friendship and intimacy...
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Well, the first one is:
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"I know you."
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And this is building a love map
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of your internal world
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of your partner.
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So I really know everything
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about you and I understand you,
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what you're thinking, what
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you're feeling, so that I can
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then meet those needs.
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So when we go out for dinner,
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I know, hey, where you want
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to go.
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>> The second component of
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friendship is "I love you."
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So sharing that fondness and
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admiration and what you
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appreciate about your partner.
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>> And the third ingredient of
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building a strong friendship is
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"I'm here for you."
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And this is turning towards
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instead of turning away.
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And those bids for connection
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that are constantly being made,
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maybe dozens of times per day,
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that maybe we miss.
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>> So those three key components
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of intimacy, friendship, safe
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place are "I know you," "I love
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you," and "I'm here for you."
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Just want to kind of repeat
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those.
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So "I know you," you said that
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it's about making love maps.
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So talk to us about that.
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What is making a love map?
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I mean, if I say "I know you,"
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well, I married my wife,
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so I know her, it just
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ends there, right?
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Like I know her
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so it's all right.
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I mean, why do I have to
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continue to do this?
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>> Yeah, so when we first meet
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and we're creating those love
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maps, over time they change.
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So for example, my wife's
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favourite food was Italian when
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we got married and now it's
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Moroccan and it changes every
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six months.
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She wants to try something new
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and adventurous, so I'm
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constantly having to update
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those love maps.
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It's just creating an internal
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map in my mind what she likes
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and what she dislikes.
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>> Yeah, at the beginning of our
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relationship, we were very
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curious about each other.
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We asked these open-ended
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questions.
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You know, "What kind of food do
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you like?"
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"Where do you wanna go
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for travel?"
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You know, "How do you wanna
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get there?"
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"Do you wanna take the train?"
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"Do you wanna fly?"
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"Do you wanna take the bus?"
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You know, all these how, what,
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when questions
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which we're not able
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to just give a yes or no answer,
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we're giving a story.
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So we're really good at being
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storytellers, really, when we're
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exploring our love maps at the
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very beginning of our
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relationship, but over time,
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our conversations become kind of
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logistical, like, who's gonna
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drop off the kids, who's gonna
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make dinner, who's gonna do-
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start the laundry tonight?
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And it just comes about,
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you know, more of a
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strategic kind of relationship
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about who's gonna do what.
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So it's getting back into really
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knowing what is my husband's
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desire?
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What are his dreams?
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What are his worries?
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What are his fears?
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And asking those questions
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to really see within his heart
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and see his emotional...
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...wellness.
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Where is it at?
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You know, what makes him happy?
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What makes him sad?
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And having those deep
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conversations and allowing the
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other person to tell the story.
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So, many times we're like,
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"Okay, okay, that's enough
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just get to the point," right?
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And we stop the storytelling,
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we stop the other person from
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telling the story because we
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wanna just get to the point,
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hurry, we've gotta do this.
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So learning to be storytellers
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again and learn, you know, about
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each other's worlds.
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>> Tell us a little bit about
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nurturing fondness and
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admiration, which is the
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second ingredient, which is
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"I love you."
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>> Mmmm.
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So a lot of times we slip into a
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negative perspective and we
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start looking at what's wrong or
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what needs to be fixed.
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You know when we're first dating
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we naturally are expressing
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saying thank you.
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"Honey, that was a beautiful
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meal, so thank you for
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making that.
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It tasted so amazing."
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We're naturally expressing that
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fondness and admiration.
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But over time it starts to erode
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and we start to see some of
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those negative things which we
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start to focus on.
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So really what we need to start
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to change our focus, to start
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searching and looking for
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what's right.
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[DOREEN] Yes, there's something
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called a reticular activating
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response, where what we
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see is what we focus on.
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So for example, if I buy a red
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car, I notice all the red cars
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as I'm driving down the road.
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So sometimes our focus can be
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for that negative bent or
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negative perspective.
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And when that's all we focus on,
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that's all we see.
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So changing the focus
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is so key to noticing,
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"Oh, you know what?
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He's an amazing hockey player.
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He gets all of the sportsmanlike
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awards, the high
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goal-scoring award and..."
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But I never say, "You know what?
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I'm proud of you.
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I really appreciate
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your athleticism and
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how the kids
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really see how perseverance
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pays off and your commitment
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to the sport," and so on.
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So you're speaking about
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something that Marlon does,
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I am, but I'm also
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talking about his character
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that's displayed within that.
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So focusing on the character
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and appreciating that is
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so important.
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>> So tell me about a,
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maybe a practical little
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exercise that
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a couple could do
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to nurture fondness
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and admiration.
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>> Mmm, yes.
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>> So one of the things we do is
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we have couples write down on a
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list, make a list.
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Just start off, pick three,
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three characteristics that
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you admire and appreciate.
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We actually give them a list of
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words of characteristics that
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they can actually look at
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so they can actually identify.
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Because sometimes we get out of
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practice and we have a hard time
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even recognizing.
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So go through the list and check
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off three.
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And then describe when that
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characteristic was displayed and
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give an example of that.
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So not only you're expressing
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the fondness and admiration,
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you're now giving it back, and
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with an example to make it
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even more real and to drive the
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point home, say, "Okay..."
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You know, so it really
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sinks home.
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>> It does, and you start to
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engage and practice that
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storytelling in the process.
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You know, "I remember when
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you displayed this
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characteristic and I really
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appreciated that."
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Yes.
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So it's important to really
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pay attention to our thoughts.
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What are we focusing on?
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Are we focusing on what we
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appreciate or what bothers us
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about that person?
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>> Marlon and Doreen, we've
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heard you say that the
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third component
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of friendship
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in marriage is vital,
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and that is turning
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towards each other
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instead of turning away or
00:10:05.70\00:10:08.50
against each other.
00:10:08.50\00:10:10.14
Can you tell us a little bit
00:10:10.14\00:10:11.41
about this third component that
00:10:11.41\00:10:13.74
is so vital?
00:10:13.74\00:10:15.74
>> This is- it is very vital.
00:10:15.74\00:10:18.45
And this is what we see when we
00:10:18.45\00:10:20.58
work with couples that is
00:10:20.58\00:10:21.95
a missing link.
00:10:21.95\00:10:23.79
You know, fondness and
00:10:23.79\00:10:24.75
admiration is super important to
00:10:24.75\00:10:27.32
create that positive perspective
00:10:27.32\00:10:29.22
in the relationship.
00:10:29.22\00:10:31.13
But turning towards each other,
00:10:31.13\00:10:34.03
this is what creates trust in a
00:10:34.03\00:10:35.93
relationship.
00:10:35.93\00:10:37.67
And if we're not turning towards
00:10:37.67\00:10:39.73
each other's needs,
00:10:39.73\00:10:41.80
our desires, you know,
00:10:41.80\00:10:43.71
our bids for adventure,
00:10:43.71\00:10:44.87
whatever it may be,
00:10:44.87\00:10:47.11
then really distrust starts to
00:10:47.11\00:10:49.88
develop in the relationship.
00:10:49.88\00:10:51.88
And we'll hear couples say,
00:10:51.88\00:10:53.28
you know, "We- I don't trust
00:10:53.28\00:10:55.95
my husband or I don't trust my
00:10:55.95\00:10:57.52
wife, but there's no- been no
00:10:57.52\00:10:59.15
big betrayal, but I don't
00:10:59.15\00:11:00.56
understand why I don't trust."
00:11:00.56\00:11:03.46
So as we start to unpack
00:11:03.46\00:11:05.83
and discover there's no
00:11:05.83\00:11:07.03
turning towards each other,
00:11:07.03\00:11:09.30
then we identify, okay,
00:11:09.30\00:11:11.40
what do you need each other to
00:11:11.40\00:11:14.17
turn towards each other in
00:11:14.17\00:11:16.07
in your life?
00:11:16.07\00:11:17.61
And then we're like, "Oh," then
00:11:17.61\00:11:19.01
they, like, "Yes, that's
00:11:19.01\00:11:20.54
exactly it!"
00:11:20.54\00:11:21.51
It's pinpointed where the
00:11:21.51\00:11:22.88
distrust is coming from.
00:11:22.88\00:11:25.25
This is so key for creating
00:11:25.25\00:11:27.25
emotional connection.
00:11:27.25\00:11:28.92
And this is often where that
00:11:28.92\00:11:30.79
emotional disconnect happens
00:11:30.79\00:11:33.15
in relationships.
00:11:33.15\00:11:34.69
>> So those bids for connection,
00:11:35.79\00:11:38.03
when I think of a bid I think of
00:11:38.03\00:11:40.20
like an auctioneer, you know,
00:11:40.20\00:11:41.80
like, "Give me ten, give me ten
00:11:41.80\00:11:43.63
oh ten over there.
00:11:43.63\00:11:44.37
There's a bid," right?
00:11:44.37\00:11:45.77
Or "Give me 20," right?
00:11:45.77\00:11:46.94
"There's a bid."
00:11:46.94\00:11:47.77
So what are these bids for
00:11:47.77\00:11:49.67
emotional connection.
00:11:49.67\00:11:50.97
What do they look like?
00:11:50.97\00:11:52.47
>> It's an attempt to make a
00:11:52.91\00:11:54.81
connection, a positive
00:11:54.81\00:11:56.11
interaction with you.
00:11:56.11\00:11:57.45
So we make- we may make
00:11:57.45\00:11:59.08
dozens of bids every day.
00:11:59.08\00:12:00.88
So, I mean, "Hey, Mike, did you
00:12:00.88\00:12:02.75
notice that beautiful flower as
00:12:02.75\00:12:04.62
we're driving up here?"
00:12:04.62\00:12:05.59
I mean, it's a bid just to,
00:12:05.59\00:12:06.96
"Hey, I'm interested in what
00:12:06.96\00:12:07.92
you're saying, I'm more
00:12:07.92\00:12:08.99
interested in you as a person."
00:12:08.99\00:12:10.56
So it's just constantly making
00:12:10.56\00:12:11.66
those bids for connection.
00:12:11.66\00:12:14.46
>> Mm-hmm.
00:12:14.46\00:12:15.66
Yeah, and I made a lot of bids
00:12:15.66\00:12:17.70
for support in our relationship
00:12:17.70\00:12:20.44
because I feel loved when Marlon
00:12:20.44\00:12:23.27
does things for me.
00:12:23.27\00:12:25.07
So I would say, "Oh, Honey, I
00:12:25.07\00:12:26.41
didn't get the garbage out.
00:12:26.41\00:12:27.28
Would you mind taking it out,"
00:12:27.28\00:12:28.74
or, "Can you grab the laundry
00:12:28.74\00:12:31.18
out of the room so I can, and
00:12:31.18\00:12:32.88
put it in the laundry room so I
00:12:32.88\00:12:34.08
can sort the colours," you know?
00:12:34.08\00:12:35.88
So I was making a lot of bids
00:12:35.88\00:12:38.02
for support in our relationship
00:12:38.02\00:12:40.72
because of that is how I felt
00:12:40.72\00:12:42.29
loved.
00:12:42.29\00:12:43.43
You know, children, they
00:12:43.43\00:12:45.63
re-bid often.
00:12:45.63\00:12:47.60
You know, "Mommy, Daddy, Daddy,
00:12:47.60\00:12:49.73
Daddy!"
00:12:49.73\00:12:50.77
>> "Just- I'm busy, I just have
00:12:50.77\00:12:51.97
to finish this email.
00:12:51.97\00:12:53.00
Just let me have ten minutes."
00:12:53.00\00:12:55.14
>> And they'll come back,
00:12:55.14\00:12:56.24
"Daddy, Daddy!
00:12:56.24\00:12:57.51
Come play ball with me."
00:12:57.51\00:12:58.77
>> "I told you, I'm busy.
00:12:58.77\00:13:00.11
Can you just let me finish my
00:13:00.11\00:13:01.88
work, okay?"
00:13:01.88\00:13:03.01
>> And then they'll re-bid
00:13:03.01\00:13:03.88
again: "Daddy, please!"
00:13:03.88\00:13:05.88
>> "Hey, I told you to stop
00:13:05.88\00:13:07.15
bugging me.
00:13:07.15\00:13:07.82
Go out and play, okay?
00:13:07.82\00:13:08.98
I just- or go to your room
00:13:08.98\00:13:10.02
because I just need to work,
00:13:10.02\00:13:11.15
okay?"
00:13:11.15\00:13:11.82
>> And then the child turns away
00:13:11.82\00:13:13.39
sad, feeling rejection.
00:13:13.39\00:13:16.29
And this was me.
00:13:16.29\00:13:18.06
My children grew up seeing my
00:13:18.06\00:13:20.10
back because I was busy.
00:13:20.10\00:13:22.33
So busy doing other things
00:13:22.33\00:13:24.87
instead of turning towards them
00:13:24.87\00:13:27.67
and really hearing what they're
00:13:27.67\00:13:29.60
saying and acting
00:13:29.60\00:13:31.64
what they wanted me to do with
00:13:31.64\00:13:33.34
them or for them.
00:13:33.34\00:13:35.54
Now, as adults, we don't re-bid
00:13:35.54\00:13:38.45
like that.
00:13:38.45\00:13:39.88
We will re-bid maybe once or
00:13:39.88\00:13:42.15
twice, and honestly, I re-bidded
00:13:42.15\00:13:45.02
more than the average person.
00:13:45.02\00:13:47.36
But when we're- our bids aren't
00:13:47.36\00:13:49.46
being turned towards, that turns
00:13:49.46\00:13:51.79
into "nagging" as adults.
00:13:51.79\00:13:54.63
So women are known for nagging.
00:13:54.63\00:13:57.00
And I always say, "Okay,
00:13:58.00\00:14:00.67
if we're turning towards each
00:14:00.67\00:14:02.57
other, nagging will not exist in
00:14:02.57\00:14:04.71
the relationship."
00:14:04.71\00:14:06.17
And it's a real game-changer
00:14:07.11\00:14:09.58
for a lot of relationships.
00:14:09.58\00:14:10.78
You realize, "Oh..."
00:14:10.78\00:14:12.68
And usually it's the men
00:14:12.68\00:14:14.95
that are not turning towards,
00:14:14.95\00:14:17.55
and the women are the ones that
00:14:17.55\00:14:18.79
are being critical and
00:14:18.79\00:14:20.86
expressing.
00:14:20.86\00:14:22.52
And some women just stop,
00:14:22.52\00:14:25.26
you know, they get to the point
00:14:25.26\00:14:26.70
where they feel like,
00:14:26.70\00:14:28.60
"I'm never turned towards.
00:14:28.60\00:14:30.10
I'm just not gonna ask anymore."
00:14:30.10\00:14:32.23
And then communication stops.
00:14:32.23\00:14:33.87
So turning, learning how to turn
00:14:33.87\00:14:35.64
towards is just crucial
00:14:35.64\00:14:37.71
in relationships.
00:14:37.71\00:14:39.11
>> So she would make a bid for
00:14:39.11\00:14:40.11
support, helping to do some,
00:14:40.11\00:14:41.51
taking out the garbage, changing
00:14:41.51\00:14:42.74
a light bulb and those kind of
00:14:42.74\00:14:43.95
things, but I would make a bid
00:14:43.95\00:14:45.98
for spending some quality time.
00:14:45.98\00:14:47.58
So, "Hey, Honey, you just wanna
00:14:47.58\00:14:48.75
come snuggle in the couch?"
00:14:48.75\00:14:50.15
And my wife would say,
00:14:50.15\00:14:51.15
"I'm too busy.
00:14:51.15\00:14:52.32
I have to get dinner made."
00:14:52.32\00:14:53.39
Or, "Hey, you wanna go for a
00:14:53.39\00:14:54.19
walk around, you know,
00:14:54.19\00:14:55.22
the field?" and...
00:14:55.22\00:14:56.16
>> I would say, "Do you wanna
00:14:56.16\00:14:57.53
eat or do you wanna go for a
00:14:57.53\00:14:58.73
walk," right? [laughs]
00:14:58.73\00:15:00.50
>> And for me, actually,
00:15:00.50\00:15:02.20
you know, the spending time was
00:15:02.20\00:15:03.26
actually more important, going
00:15:03.26\00:15:04.43
for a walk and connecting, but
00:15:04.43\00:15:06.07
to her is more important to
00:15:06.07\00:15:07.14
finish making dinner and get
00:15:07.14\00:15:08.24
everything done for the family
00:15:08.24\00:15:09.37
and get everything ready.
00:15:09.37\00:15:10.31
So my bids were a lot of focused
00:15:10.31\00:15:11.71
around, "Just come snuggle.
00:15:11.71\00:15:13.84
Let's just spend some time on
00:15:13.84\00:15:14.98
the couch, some us time."
00:15:14.98\00:15:16.41
>> And I would turn against him
00:15:16.41\00:15:19.51
because- and then he would
00:15:19.51\00:15:21.88
do the same, right?
00:15:21.88\00:15:23.12
It was like, "You killed my cat,
00:15:23.12\00:15:24.42
I'll kill your dog," kind of
00:15:24.42\00:15:26.42
mentality.
00:15:26.42\00:15:27.72
So we just stopped turning
00:15:27.72\00:15:29.89
towards each other and then that
00:15:29.89\00:15:31.49
emotional chasm just kept
00:15:31.49\00:15:33.19
getting wider and wider and
00:15:33.19\00:15:35.53
deeper and deeper.
00:15:35.53\00:15:36.80
>> We talked about a study that
00:15:36.80\00:15:38.60
was done in Canada of how much
00:15:38.60\00:15:40.90
time are couples actually
00:15:40.90\00:15:42.37
turning towards each other
00:15:42.37\00:15:44.31
every week, and it turns out to
00:15:44.31\00:15:46.07
be 35 minutes
00:15:46.07\00:15:48.44
a week.
00:15:48.44\00:15:49.48
And that actually turning
00:15:49.48\00:15:51.45
towards each other, not just
00:15:51.45\00:15:52.91
getting things done, but
00:15:52.91\00:15:54.12
actually turning towards each
00:15:54.12\00:15:55.08
other, face to face
00:15:55.08\00:15:55.98
communication and having these
00:15:55.98\00:15:57.35
deep, intimate conversation,
00:15:57.35\00:15:59.59
35 minutes a week.
00:15:59.59\00:16:00.69
And that's very little.
00:16:00.69\00:16:02.02
So what about, like, I'm talking
00:16:02.02\00:16:04.29
about meal time.
00:16:04.29\00:16:06.26
Is that an important time when
00:16:06.26\00:16:07.73
we can actually take that time,
00:16:07.73\00:16:08.96
because we're eating anyway.
00:16:08.96\00:16:10.20
So doing that, how does that
00:16:10.20\00:16:12.27
affect turning towards or
00:16:12.27\00:16:13.74
turning away?
00:16:13.74\00:16:14.87
>> Yeah.
00:16:15.50\00:16:16.07
So meal time, there- many
00:16:16.17\00:16:18.77
families do not spend time
00:16:18.77\00:16:20.71
eating together anymore.
00:16:20.71\00:16:22.98
It's not a what we call a ritual
00:16:22.98\00:16:25.35
connection or a love habit
00:16:25.35\00:16:26.75
anymore within the family unit.
00:16:26.75\00:16:29.62
And there's many things that,
00:16:29.62\00:16:31.19
you know, we call relationship
00:16:31.19\00:16:32.72
leaks where
00:16:32.72\00:16:34.79
there are these leaks that
00:16:34.79\00:16:36.39
get in the way of
00:16:36.39\00:16:38.59
this turning towards each other
00:16:38.59\00:16:40.56
and this spending time together.
00:16:40.56\00:16:43.50
So it's- yeah, you're right.
00:16:43.50\00:16:45.60
Meal time is something that just
00:16:45.60\00:16:48.10
doesn't happen together
00:16:48.10\00:16:49.37
as a family.
00:16:49.37\00:16:50.67
>> Sometimes I think it's, you
00:16:50.67\00:16:53.04
know, we're saying here, you
00:16:53.04\00:16:55.64
need to make those bids and...
00:16:55.64\00:16:57.71
I think sometimes it might be
00:16:57.71\00:16:59.48
difficult, correct me if I'm
00:16:59.48\00:17:01.55
wrong, Marlon, you know, with
00:17:01.55\00:17:03.75
the coaching that the two of you
00:17:03.75\00:17:05.15
are doing, sometimes it's
00:17:05.15\00:17:06.49
difficult for a guy to pick up
00:17:06.49\00:17:09.16
that bid.
00:17:09.16\00:17:10.69
You know, sometimes we make it
00:17:10.69\00:17:12.79
subtly and it's not...
00:17:12.79\00:17:15.06
They don't pick it up.
00:17:17.23\00:17:18.30
It's not expressed and so
00:17:18.30\00:17:20.24
they miss it and that might not
00:17:20.24\00:17:22.30
be their intention
00:17:22.30\00:17:23.91
to miss the bid.
00:17:23.91\00:17:25.84
>> So are you saying something
00:17:25.84\00:17:26.74
about a bid that you've made
00:17:26.74\00:17:27.91
that I've missed?
00:17:27.91\00:17:28.91
[laughter]
00:17:28.91\00:17:30.88
>> Well, say, for instance, if I
00:17:30.88\00:17:32.55
say to Mike, because I don't
00:17:32.55\00:17:35.12
like- I don't mind doing the
00:17:35.12\00:17:37.52
laundry, but I don't like taking
00:17:37.52\00:17:40.06
the laundry out and folding it.
00:17:40.06\00:17:42.22
It's just, you know, once it's
00:17:42.22\00:17:44.69
dry, you know, out of the dryer.
00:17:44.69\00:17:47.56
But I don't mind the process of
00:17:47.56\00:17:49.20
sorting and putting it in and
00:17:49.20\00:17:50.87
putting it into the dryer, but I
00:17:50.87\00:17:52.47
don't like taking it out and
00:17:52.47\00:17:54.37
folding because there's so many
00:17:54.37\00:17:56.00
other things to do, because my
00:17:56.00\00:17:57.47
language, like yours, Doreen,
00:17:57.47\00:17:59.07
is very high on acts of service.
00:17:59.07\00:18:01.81
And so there's always
00:18:01.81\00:18:03.11
stuff to do.
00:18:03.11\00:18:03.91
[DOREEN] That's right.
00:18:03.91\00:18:04.75
>> And so let's say, for
00:18:04.75\00:18:06.01
instance, I would make a subtle
00:18:06.01\00:18:07.78
bid like...
00:18:07.78\00:18:08.78
"Did you hear...was that the
00:18:10.42\00:18:12.45
buzzer that went off
00:18:12.45\00:18:13.69
on the dryer?"
00:18:13.69\00:18:14.69
>> "Yeah, yeah.
00:18:14.69\00:18:15.32
Would you like me to go and
00:18:15.32\00:18:16.49
fold the laundry?"
00:18:16.49\00:18:18.26
>> So that was very subtle,
00:18:18.26\00:18:20.90
you know, and yet he picked
00:18:20.90\00:18:22.23
it up, but someone else might
00:18:22.23\00:18:24.63
not pick up as-
00:18:24.63\00:18:26.33
a bid as subtle
00:18:26.33\00:18:28.00
as that and might not hear it.
00:18:28.00\00:18:29.54
>> Because you've trained me
00:18:29.54\00:18:30.64
very well.
00:18:30.64\00:18:31.47
[laughter]
00:18:31.47\00:18:32.87
[MARLON] Or sometimes we choose
00:18:32.87\00:18:34.08
to ignore it because "Why don't
00:18:34.08\00:18:37.08
you just be direct with me and
00:18:37.08\00:18:38.58
ask what you want?"
00:18:38.58\00:18:39.48
So it's actually, sometimes when
00:18:39.48\00:18:40.55
she was subtle, it actually kind
00:18:40.55\00:18:41.72
of irritated me.
00:18:41.72\00:18:42.68
"So, okay, well just ask if you
00:18:42.68\00:18:43.62
want something."
00:18:43.62\00:18:44.32
So I would ignore it.
00:18:44.32\00:18:45.12
So if she asked me, so when she
00:18:45.12\00:18:46.45
asked about, "Is that the
00:18:46.45\00:18:47.62
buzzer?" I would just
00:18:47.62\00:18:49.39
ignore it and it's like, well...
00:18:49.39\00:18:50.56
>> Most men say, "I want my wife
00:18:50.56\00:18:52.76
to be direct with me, you know,
00:18:52.76\00:18:54.83
so that I am not
00:18:54.83\00:18:56.16
missing the bid."
00:18:56.16\00:18:57.07
So they have to have this
00:18:57.07\00:18:58.03
conversation because many
00:18:58.03\00:19:00.64
couples are not aware of what
00:19:00.64\00:19:02.27
bids look like in their
00:19:02.27\00:19:03.20
relationship.
00:19:03.20\00:19:04.31
They're missing them.
00:19:04.31\00:19:05.41
And once they miss them, many
00:19:05.41\00:19:07.14
times it's a lost opportunity
00:19:07.14\00:19:09.61
because then more distance is
00:19:09.61\00:19:12.05
created within the relationship.
00:19:12.05\00:19:14.82
>> Or even you could turn
00:19:14.82\00:19:15.78
against that bid.
00:19:15.78\00:19:17.02
"Yes, I heard the buzzer
00:19:17.02\00:19:18.59
on the dryer.
00:19:18.59\00:19:19.35
Would you go get up and get it?
00:19:19.35\00:19:20.26
It's annoying me during the
00:19:20.26\00:19:21.19
middle of the game."
00:19:21.19\00:19:22.06
>> Yeah, exactly.
00:19:22.06\00:19:23.79
And discovering what turning
00:19:23.79\00:19:25.66
against looks like.
00:19:25.66\00:19:27.66
So in every relationship,
00:19:27.66\00:19:28.96
turning against looks different.
00:19:28.96\00:19:30.80
Turning away looks different.
00:19:30.80\00:19:32.73
So having that heart to heart
00:19:32.73\00:19:34.24
conversation to discover and
00:19:34.24\00:19:35.84
uncover, what do bids look like
00:19:35.84\00:19:38.54
in my relationship?
00:19:38.54\00:19:40.34
And what does turning away from
00:19:40.34\00:19:42.38
the bid look like?
00:19:42.38\00:19:43.35
What does turning against?
00:19:43.35\00:19:45.68
So often turning against couples
00:19:45.68\00:19:47.62
will say is contempt.
00:19:47.62\00:19:49.62
Right?
00:19:50.75\00:19:51.22
So they kind of go hand in hand
00:19:51.45\00:19:54.16
here.
00:19:54.16\00:19:54.79
So that's really important.
00:19:54.79\00:19:56.22
So a bid could be as simple as,
00:19:56.22\00:19:58.66
"Oh, look at the beautiful
00:19:58.66\00:19:59.89
flower."
00:19:59.89\00:20:00.90
>> "Yes, I love-
00:20:01.63\00:20:02.46
that is beautiful."
00:20:02.46\00:20:03.20
>> Or, "Oh did-" we're driving
00:20:03.20\00:20:04.77
in the car, "Did you see?
00:20:04.77\00:20:07.20
That was a black swan
00:20:07.20\00:20:09.04
on the pond."
00:20:09.04\00:20:10.24
And by the time he turns or
00:20:10.24\00:20:12.34
decides to turn, he missed the
00:20:12.34\00:20:14.11
opportunity to turn towards
00:20:14.11\00:20:15.71
the bid.
00:20:15.71\00:20:16.54
>> Or "Could you help me make
00:20:16.54\00:20:17.35
dinner tonight?"
00:20:17.35\00:20:18.25
>> Yes, it can look like
00:20:18.25\00:20:19.91
many things.
00:20:19.91\00:20:20.98
You know, "My shoes are so
00:20:20.98\00:20:22.72
dirty, how do I get them white
00:20:22.72\00:20:24.69
again?
00:20:24.69\00:20:25.72
You know, my white runners."
00:20:25.72\00:20:27.42
So it could be so many different
00:20:27.42\00:20:29.82
ways a bid can look like.
00:20:29.82\00:20:31.93
[RENÉ] Can you tell us
00:20:31.93\00:20:33.96
more about accepting that bid,
00:20:33.96\00:20:36.67
but maybe accepting it
00:20:36.67\00:20:39.00
enthusiastically instead of
00:20:39.00\00:20:41.84
not being enthusiastic about the
00:20:41.84\00:20:43.87
bid, because that can also...
00:20:43.87\00:20:45.51
...create a problem, right,
00:20:47.18\00:20:48.58
create turning against
00:20:48.58\00:20:50.41
in the end, if you're not as
00:20:50.41\00:20:52.01
enthusiastic.
00:20:52.01\00:20:53.08
>> And that actually happened in
00:20:53.08\00:20:54.52
our relationship, often.
00:20:54.52\00:20:56.65
[DOREEN] A lot.
00:20:56.65\00:20:57.45
[MARLON] A lot.
00:20:57.45\00:20:58.52
So for example, I would say,
00:20:58.52\00:20:59.92
"Hey, Honey, hey, would you like
00:20:59.92\00:21:01.36
to go for a hike in the
00:21:01.36\00:21:02.12
mountains tomorrow?
00:21:02.12\00:21:03.06
It's gonna be really sunny and
00:21:03.06\00:21:04.36
it'd be fun to go out."
00:21:04.36\00:21:05.63
>> "Sure.
00:21:05.63\00:21:06.76
Let's go..."
00:21:06.76\00:21:07.76
>> "Sure...so don't sound
00:21:08.16\00:21:09.96
like you really wanna go."
00:21:09.96\00:21:11.07
>> "Yes, let's go.
00:21:11.07\00:21:12.07
You wanna go, let's go."
00:21:12.07\00:21:13.70
>> "I know I wanna go,
00:21:13.70\00:21:14.67
but it doesn't sound like
00:21:14.67\00:21:15.47
you wanna go."
00:21:15.47\00:21:16.34
>> "Yes, let's go!"
00:21:16.34\00:21:17.94
>> "Well, no.
00:21:17.94\00:21:18.94
If you're gonna have that
00:21:18.94\00:21:19.87
attitude, I don't wanna go."
00:21:19.87\00:21:21.01
>> "Ugh, you're so difficult."
00:21:21.01\00:21:23.45
>> "Well..." yeah.
00:21:23.45\00:21:24.68
So you can see, yeah, you can
00:21:24.68\00:21:25.78
see how I just didn't sense that
00:21:25.78\00:21:27.95
she really wanted to go.
00:21:27.95\00:21:28.98
"I'll go if you wanna go,"
00:21:28.98\00:21:29.92
right, "Eh, well..."
00:21:29.92\00:21:31.12
So she was not interested so she
00:21:31.12\00:21:32.42
wasn't very enthusiastically
00:21:32.42\00:21:33.99
about that bid, so I just-
00:21:33.99\00:21:35.42
at the end of the day I really
00:21:35.42\00:21:36.39
wanna go because, you know,
00:21:36.39\00:21:37.36
sometimes you do it, you go out
00:21:37.36\00:21:38.39
in the mountains and one person
00:21:38.39\00:21:39.53
just kinda of, "Are we done
00:21:39.53\00:21:40.60
yet?" or you're not enjoying
00:21:40.60\00:21:42.13
the time.
00:21:42.13\00:21:42.90
So what's a better way of doing
00:21:42.90\00:21:43.73
that, Honey?
00:21:43.73\00:21:44.40
I might say, "Hey, Honey, would
00:21:44.40\00:21:45.37
you like to go for a hike
00:21:45.37\00:21:46.57
tomorrow in the mountains?
00:21:46.57\00:21:47.44
Supposed to be really sunny and
00:21:47.44\00:21:48.27
beautiful."
00:21:48.27\00:21:48.80
>> Oh, yeah, it's supposed to be
00:21:48.97\00:21:49.80
a great day.
00:21:49.80\00:21:50.44
Let's go."
00:21:50.44\00:21:51.21
>> "Mmm, okay, so what if we got
00:21:51.21\00:21:52.61
up at, like, 7 a.m. and we get
00:21:52.61\00:21:53.88
out there early before
00:21:53.88\00:21:54.68
the traffic?"
00:21:54.68\00:21:55.44
>> "Oh...7 a.m.?
00:21:55.44\00:21:57.55
You know, it's our sleep-in day.
00:21:57.55\00:21:59.61
Maybe could we leave at nine,
00:21:59.61\00:22:01.18
just sleep in a little longer?"
00:22:01.18\00:22:02.15
>> "Okay, why don't we do that.
00:22:02.15\00:22:02.98
And then maybe we can take a
00:22:02.98\00:22:03.95
lunch and we could eat on top of
00:22:03.95\00:22:04.99
the mountain.
00:22:04.99\00:22:05.59
That would be beautiful."
00:22:05.59\00:22:06.45
>> "Yeah, what kind of sandwich
00:22:06.45\00:22:07.79
would you like?"
00:22:07.79\00:22:08.46
>> "Ahh, how about some peanut
00:22:08.46\00:22:09.62
butter and honey sandwiches?
00:22:09.62\00:22:10.76
Because you're the peanut butter
00:22:10.76\00:22:11.99
that sticks us together."
00:22:11.99\00:22:13.16
>> Oh... [laughs]
00:22:13.16\00:22:15.06
>> "Okay, I will make you your
00:22:15.06\00:22:16.50
peanut butter and honey
00:22:16.50\00:22:17.87
sandwich."
00:22:17.87\00:22:18.50
>> "And then maybe on the way
00:22:18.57\00:22:19.43
home, maybe we could go stop at
00:22:19.43\00:22:21.27
your favourite restaurant in
00:22:21.27\00:22:22.20
Canmore."
00:22:22.20\00:22:23.27
>> "That would be wonderful.
00:22:23.27\00:22:24.34
You know how much I love
00:22:24.34\00:22:25.31
that place."
00:22:25.31\00:22:26.27
>> Mmm, thank you.
00:22:26.27\00:22:27.14
I'm looking forward to this."
00:22:27.14\00:22:28.44
>> So what I'm seeing is a real
00:22:28.44\00:22:31.05
high positivity to negativity
00:22:31.05\00:22:33.38
ratio here.
00:22:33.38\00:22:34.28
There's almost no negativity
00:22:34.28\00:22:36.38
and when that comes in,
00:22:36.38\00:22:37.89
it dampens things.
00:22:37.89\00:22:39.02
So positivity has- how high
00:22:39.02\00:22:40.59
should it be?
00:22:40.59\00:22:41.56
Kind of a final question.
00:22:41.56\00:22:42.62
We're coming to the end of our
00:22:42.62\00:22:44.03
time together, so...
00:22:44.03\00:22:45.23
>> So Gottmans show- share that
00:22:45.66\00:22:48.00
if you, in a regular
00:22:48.00\00:22:49.53
relationship or a normal
00:22:49.53\00:22:50.60
conversation or interactions, it
00:22:50.60\00:22:51.93
should be a 20 to 1 positive
00:22:51.93\00:22:53.84
interactions to negative
00:22:53.84\00:22:54.97
interactions.
00:22:54.97\00:22:55.87
And then even during conflict,
00:22:55.87\00:22:57.81
if we can maintain that 5 to 1
00:22:57.81\00:23:00.04
ratio...
00:23:00.04\00:23:00.78
>> Even during conflict?
00:23:00.78\00:23:01.68
[MARLON] Even during conflict,
00:23:01.68\00:23:02.68
to keep that positive, which I
00:23:02.68\00:23:04.15
know is very hard, right?
00:23:04.15\00:23:05.61
How can I be positive
00:23:05.61\00:23:06.98
in that conflict?
00:23:06.98\00:23:08.72
But it's easy to be- simply, I
00:23:08.72\00:23:09.85
could give a smile or
00:23:09.85\00:23:11.79
an appropriate positive
00:23:11.79\00:23:14.19
sense of humour.
00:23:14.19\00:23:15.02
>> Yes, or touch.
00:23:15.02\00:23:16.99
[MARLON] That works for me.
00:23:17.83\00:23:18.63
>> And just validating,
00:23:18.63\00:23:20.23
you know, that the person is
00:23:20.23\00:23:21.73
being heard that sharing what
00:23:21.73\00:23:24.10
they're saying that, yeah, I
00:23:24.10\00:23:25.60
understand how you could feel
00:23:25.60\00:23:27.07
that way.
00:23:27.07\00:23:27.97
We miss this validation, which
00:23:27.97\00:23:29.94
is so key to learn to validate
00:23:29.94\00:23:32.74
so each other feel like they're
00:23:32.74\00:23:34.31
being heard and that what
00:23:34.31\00:23:36.08
they're saying, that we're
00:23:36.08\00:23:37.45
important to each other.
00:23:37.45\00:23:39.71
You know, when we first start
00:23:39.71\00:23:40.78
dating, you know, if you go on a
00:23:40.78\00:23:42.78
date and that person doesn't ask
00:23:42.78\00:23:44.55
you questions and doesn't wanna
00:23:44.55\00:23:45.95
get to know you, you feel like,
00:23:45.95\00:23:48.09
"Oh, I'm not that important to
00:23:48.09\00:23:49.76
them," so you probably aren't
00:23:49.76\00:23:50.63
gonna have a second date
00:23:50.63\00:23:51.63
with them.
00:23:51.63\00:23:52.66
But as the relationship matures,
00:23:52.66\00:23:54.60
we can do the same thing
00:23:54.60\00:23:56.33
and make each other feel
00:23:56.33\00:23:57.40
unimportant in that way.
00:23:57.40\00:23:59.93
>> Maybe we should
00:24:01.00\00:24:02.04
never stop dating.
00:24:02.04\00:24:03.47
[DOREEN] That's right.
00:24:03.47\00:24:04.27
[MARLON] Actually, that's- in
00:24:04.27\00:24:05.04
our relationship, that's what
00:24:05.04\00:24:05.84
we said.
00:24:05.84\00:24:06.44
You know, we weren't very good
00:24:06.54\00:24:07.21
at marriage for 24 years, but
00:24:07.21\00:24:08.34
dating, we're awesome and we're
00:24:08.34\00:24:09.68
still dating and we've been on a
00:24:09.68\00:24:11.08
honeymoon for the last 10, 11
00:24:11.08\00:24:12.18
years, and we continue to have a
00:24:12.18\00:24:14.12
date every week.
00:24:14.12\00:24:15.32
>> You have a date night
00:24:15.85\00:24:16.85
every week?
00:24:16.85\00:24:17.55
[MARLON] Yes.
00:24:17.55\00:24:18.12
[DOREEN] We do.
00:24:18.12\00:24:18.79
>> Did you...did you hear that?
00:24:18.79\00:24:19.75
>> That's good.
00:24:19.75\00:24:20.56
[laughter]
00:24:20.56\00:24:21.56
We'll take that up.
00:24:21.56\00:24:22.56
[laughter]
00:24:22.56\00:24:23.96
>> So, Marlon and Doreen, we've
00:24:25.69\00:24:27.83
come to the end of our time
00:24:27.83\00:24:29.26
together.
00:24:29.26\00:24:30.37
But before we let you go, I
00:24:30.37\00:24:32.37
wonder if you can pray for our
00:24:32.37\00:24:34.30
viewers out there.
00:24:34.30\00:24:35.84
There might be some of them that
00:24:35.84\00:24:37.11
are struggling with these key
00:24:37.11\00:24:38.94
components of really getting to
00:24:38.94\00:24:41.21
know each other and affirming
00:24:41.21\00:24:43.95
each other and appreciating each
00:24:43.95\00:24:46.08
other, and even missing those
00:24:46.08\00:24:48.68
bids and not turning towards
00:24:48.68\00:24:50.42
each other and accepting
00:24:50.42\00:24:51.95
influence from them- from
00:24:51.95\00:24:53.39
each other.
00:24:53.39\00:24:54.49
So I wonder if you could pray
00:24:54.49\00:24:55.96
for our viewers.
00:24:55.96\00:24:56.99
>> Mmm, yes.
00:24:56.99\00:24:57.93
Dear Heavenly Father,
00:24:58.73\00:25:00.66
we just want to pray for each of
00:25:00.66\00:25:01.10
we just want to pray for each of
00:25:01.40\00:25:02.43
the viewers here today.
00:25:02.43\00:25:04.63
And, Lord, if there's-
00:25:04.63\00:25:05.53
if they've become roommates
00:25:05.53\00:25:07.70
and they're not necessarily
00:25:07.70\00:25:08.70
turning towards each other or
00:25:08.70\00:25:10.14
they're not building that
00:25:10.14\00:25:11.11
friendship by building love
00:25:11.11\00:25:13.04
maps, or if they're not getting
00:25:13.04\00:25:14.31
to express that fondness and
00:25:14.31\00:25:16.95
admiration with each other.
00:25:16.95\00:25:18.15
Lord, I just ask that You would
00:25:18.15\00:25:20.18
just inspire them to turn
00:25:20.18\00:25:21.88
towards and start expressing
00:25:21.88\00:25:23.75
fondness and admiration towards
00:25:23.75\00:25:25.22
each other.
00:25:25.22\00:25:26.22
[DOREEN] And, Lord, I just pray
00:25:26.82\00:25:28.06
that You will help the couples
00:25:28.06\00:25:30.66
that are in this place in their
00:25:30.66\00:25:32.19
relationship where they maybe
00:25:32.19\00:25:33.76
feel hopeless and they feel like
00:25:33.76\00:25:36.26
they're at gridlock and no
00:25:36.26\00:25:38.87
matter what they try to do, they
00:25:38.87\00:25:41.50
feel like it's just not working.
00:25:41.50\00:25:43.91
That they will just take the
00:25:43.91\00:25:45.61
chance to be vulnerable,
00:25:45.61\00:25:47.54
to share their feelings and
00:25:47.54\00:25:49.01
their needs, and to turn, just
00:25:49.01\00:25:51.55
one of them to turn towards the
00:25:51.55\00:25:53.48
other and start a new journey of
00:25:53.48\00:25:55.68
rebuilding friendship.
00:25:55.68\00:25:57.35
We pray this in Your name, amen.
00:25:57.35\00:25:59.59
[ALL] Amen.
00:25:59.59\00:26:00.76
>> Marlon and Doreen, thank you
00:26:00.76\00:26:02.29
so very much for coming again
00:26:02.29\00:26:04.29
and sharing with us on It Is
00:26:04.29\00:26:05.86
Written Canada.
00:26:05.86\00:26:06.73
>> We really enjoyed our time
00:26:06.73\00:26:07.86
here, thank you.
00:26:07.86\00:26:08.56
>> Thank you.
00:26:08.56\00:26:09.46
>> Friends, we live in
00:26:10.47\00:26:11.60
challenging times.
00:26:11.60\00:26:13.13
Our lives are saturated by
00:26:13.13\00:26:15.27
information, activities,
00:26:15.27\00:26:18.11
and senseless expectations.
00:26:18.11\00:26:21.11
So the stresses of life make
00:26:21.11\00:26:23.24
healthy relationships more
00:26:23.24\00:26:25.61
difficult to achieve
00:26:25.61\00:26:27.95
and sustain.
00:26:27.95\00:26:29.38
Our free offer for you is
00:26:30.42\00:26:33.25
Hope For Today's Families.
00:26:33.25\00:26:35.59
[MIKE] Husbands and wives, as
00:26:36.62\00:26:38.19
well as parents and children and
00:26:38.19\00:26:39.86
other family members, live under
00:26:39.86\00:26:41.86
the same roof, but tend to
00:26:41.86\00:26:43.57
communicate poorly at best.
00:26:43.57\00:26:46.17
Many want the stability of a
00:26:47.24\00:26:49.50
strong family life but don't
00:26:49.50\00:26:51.47
know how to attain it.
00:26:51.47\00:26:53.41
>> Hope For Today's Families
00:26:54.81\00:26:56.61
will help you build strong
00:26:56.61\00:26:58.11
relationships with those
00:26:58.11\00:26:59.55
around you,
00:26:59.55\00:27:01.18
show how husbands and wives can
00:27:01.18\00:27:03.35
draw closer emotionally,
00:27:03.35\00:27:05.79
spiritually, financially,
00:27:05.79\00:27:08.26
and intellectually.
00:27:08.26\00:27:10.26
>> And help you communicate more
00:27:10.26\00:27:12.03
effectively, understand and heal
00:27:12.03\00:27:14.73
the roots of violence, prevent
00:27:14.73\00:27:16.70
distress and divorce, or live
00:27:16.70\00:27:19.27
happily as a single person.
00:27:19.27\00:27:21.94
>> Before you go, we would like
00:27:23.07\00:27:25.07
to thank all of you who have
00:27:25.07\00:27:26.98
supported the ministry of It Is
00:27:26.98\00:27:28.94
Written Canada with your prayers
00:27:28.94\00:27:31.58
and financial contributions.
00:27:31.58\00:27:34.38
Without your support, this
00:27:34.38\00:27:36.48
television ministry could not
00:27:36.48\00:27:38.79
have reached so many people for
00:27:38.79\00:27:41.56
so many decades.
00:27:41.56\00:27:44.06
>> Yes, thank you.
00:27:44.06\00:27:45.36
And we would like to invite you
00:27:45.36\00:27:47.03
to follow us on Instagram and
00:27:47.03\00:27:48.63
Facebook and subscribe to our
00:27:48.63\00:27:50.63
YouTube channel and also
00:27:50.63\00:27:52.97
listen to our podcasts.
00:27:52.97\00:27:55.20
And if you go to our website,
00:27:55.20\00:27:57.04
you can see our latest programs.
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>> Friends, to be honest, Jesus
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is offering you a life that is
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beyond our ongoing struggles
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with the pain, suffering, and
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sorrows of this life.
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We would like to recommend
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you open the Bible
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where it is recorded that Jesus
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Himself found His assurance to
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defeat the Devil through the
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Word of His Father
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when He declared...
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[gentle uplifting music playin]
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