>> Thank you for joining us on
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It Is Written Canada.
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You know, for some of us there
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are stories-- hidden stories
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that we cannot speak about and
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ironically, we can't stop
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thinking about them.
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Like how do you move forward
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when the people you trusted
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failed you.
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Reema Sukamaran is here
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with us today.
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She is the mother of six.
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She is also an author and a
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speaker and she has a
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riveting story.
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Her husband, Sanj, is a doctor
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of audiology and he's also a
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professional musician and both
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of them have come to join us
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today here at
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It Is Written Canada.
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So, Sanj and Reema, I'd like to
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welcome you here and we would
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like to talk to you and share
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your story with others.
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>> Yes, welcome, Reema and Sanj.
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>> Thank you.
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>> So, Reema, to start off with,
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I have a question for you.
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So every little girl has a dream
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of what her life is going to be
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like one day when she grows up.
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So can you share your dreams
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that you had as a little girl?
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>> Ever since I was a little
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girl I had dreamed of a happy
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family.
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In my family my husband was
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hard-working, he brought home a
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great pay check and I was a
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stay-at-home mom with a whole
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bunch of kids and I always had
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this vision of us travelling
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around the country in an RV and
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it was a family that was full of
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a lot of joy.
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And I think I had that dream
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because my reality was very
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different.
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>> Can you tell us about your
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reality and why it was so
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different?
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>> So my mom and dad immigrated
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from India to Canada and my mom
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was a nurse and my dad was a
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colporteur and from very early
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in their marriage, my dad was
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very abusive to my mom.
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He was very physically,
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emotionally, spiritually abusive
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to her and that abuse carried
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out into our family and to the
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children as they had myself and
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my two brothers.
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And so our home was a place that
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we feared.
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Now at the same time, I don't
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think that we really realized
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that this wasn't the norm.
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This is what we grew up with
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and, you know, you have secrets
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and so you don't really talk
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about it past our four walls.
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>> So what was happening within
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your home?
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Did you have a relationship with
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Jesus?
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Was it a Christian home?
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What was happening?
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>> So we were a Christian home
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but we were also a very
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religious home and I've learned
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as an adult that there's quite a
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difference between being
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spiritual and being religious.
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My dad was very religious and
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we had morning and evening
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worship, we memorized
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memory verses and at the
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same time I had a very
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close relationship with Jesus.
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He was my invisible friend and
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He was someone I could talk to.
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Whenever things were bad
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I always would pray, "Jesus
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OK, after this beating, can we
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now be a happy family?"
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>> After this beating?
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>> After this beating. Yeah.
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>> That is so sad!
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>> So, Reema, how did you break
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free from this childhood home
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this awful experience that you
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were having?
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>> At some point I realized that
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I had to leave home to break
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free of that.
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My parents-- we left Canada and
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we moved to Florida.
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We lived there for three years
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and our time in Florida was a
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really happy time for me.
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The abuse was going one, but
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probably not to the extent that
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it would later on in life.
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And after Florida, we moved to
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the Midwest and it was at this
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time that my dad became very
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volatile, more so with us as
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well as my mom.
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He never really hit us as much
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as my mom earlier on, but in
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high school it started.
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We moved to the Midwest and we
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lived in a city where everyone
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was predominantly white and
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upper-middle class and it was
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very clique-ish and the families
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and the students in our
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high school--
it was very hard to
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fit in.
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For me, high school was a
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nightmare.
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If I had a superpower at that
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time it would have been to be
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invisible.
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We kind of--
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I felt like I was watching from
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this wall, watching everyone
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live a normal life and meanwhile
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our life at home our life was a
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living nightmare.
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My dad became very, very abusive
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to the children as well as my
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mom.
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I kind of realized at some point
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that my little happy family
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wasn't going to be a reality.
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For that to happen, my father
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would have had to take some
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blame and sought help.
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So my escape was leaving for
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university.
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I was very excited about
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leaving, but at the same time I
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was very scared because I had
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never been away from home
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that long.
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My two younger brothers and I
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had a very close relationship
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and so leaving them behind was
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very, very hard for me to do
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because I was worried about who
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was going to protect them
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and my mom.
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>> You protect them, you're the
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older sister, now you're going
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off to university, what's going
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to happen to my brothers?
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>> Yes.
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So I went away to university and
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it was OK for my brothers in the
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sense that they grew in stature
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and so they outgrew my dad and
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so my dad wasn't very physical
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with them at this point, but
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very emotionally abusive.
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And my mom, you know, she found
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work as her escape.
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She was a nurse and she worked a
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lot of hours, partly because my
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father didn't work.
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He chose to work on and off when
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the feeling hit him and so my
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mom was the sole provider.
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When I went away to university,
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I entered this whole new world
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and it was just an exciting time
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in life, you know.
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I found that I could fit in,
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there were other people like me.
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It didn't matter how much money
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my parents had, what their job
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was, it didn't matter about how
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good my grades were.
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They didn't know anything about
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me and I found a very loving,
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accepting group of friends.
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>> That's wonderful!
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And is that the university that
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you were at, Sanj?
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>> It actually is.
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[laughter]
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>> So that's where you first got
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acquainted with each other,
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right?
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>>Yeah, we became friends at the
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university and maintained a
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friendship for many years to
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come.
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>> Oh, wow! OK.
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>> Did you start dating right
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away?
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>> So that's a funny story.
00:07:01.25\00:07:02.95
[laughter]
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>> You mean us? Or just dating?
00:07:04.25\00:07:05.39
[laughter]
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>> Are you talking about us?
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>> Yes. You two.
00:07:07.29\00:07:08.42
>> So my freshman year I
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actually saw Sanj in a hallway
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and I said "Hi" to him, but he
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says he didn't remember that
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so I thought he was really
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snotty and just kind of brushed
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him aside.
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But there were a lot of other
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ethnicities on campus so that
00:07:20.30\00:07:22.27
was exciting for me coming from
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a predominantly white town where
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we did not fit in, you know.
00:07:27.18\00:07:29.31
So no, we did not start dating
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then, but a friendship started
00:07:31.35\00:07:32.21
while we were in university and
00:07:32.21\00:07:34.08
it grew, yeah.
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>> That's wonderful.
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>> We're still friends.
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[laughter]
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>> So how did you move forward
00:07:41.46\00:07:42.59
after university?
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>> So in university I took
00:07:44.03\00:07:46.09
Education and I had changed my
00:07:46.09\00:07:48.26
major at some point in the
00:07:48.26\00:07:50.30
middle so I still had to do one
00:07:50.30\00:07:51.73
more semester which was my
00:07:51.73\00:07:53.30
student teaching and I chose to
00:07:53.30\00:07:55.90
go home to do that.
00:07:55.90\00:07:57.24
My youngest brother was in high
00:07:57.24\00:07:58.34
school and despite home being a
00:07:58.34\00:08:01.01
place of abuse, it was still
00:08:01.01\00:08:01.88
home.
00:08:01.88\00:08:02.88
It's all you knew--
00:08:02.88\00:08:03.61
It's all I knew.
00:08:03.61\00:08:04.71
And so, you know, it's still a
00:08:04.71\00:08:06.25
place that was safe to me.
00:08:06.25\00:08:09.72
I chose to go home and I student
00:08:09.72\00:08:12.65
taught actually at the same
00:08:12.65\00:08:14.32
school that I went to.
00:08:14.32\00:08:17.46
It was an interesting choice
00:08:17.46\00:08:19.69
because the elementary school
00:08:19.69\00:08:20.70
was nothing that I had been a
00:08:20.70\00:08:22.13
part of and the high school was
00:08:22.13\00:08:25.43
very much the same, but it was
00:08:25.43\00:08:26.63
not a part of where I was going
00:08:26.63\00:08:28.00
to be so it was OK.
00:08:28.00\00:08:29.87
I loved student teaching.
00:08:29.87\00:08:31.14
I loved the teacher that I
00:08:31.14\00:08:32.64
worked under and on the weekends
00:08:32.64\00:08:34.51
I often hung out with my
00:08:34.51\00:08:35.48
youngest brother.
00:08:35.48\00:08:37.05
He had a much different
00:08:37.05\00:08:38.25
experience than me.
00:08:38.25\00:08:39.68
He was social, he was outgoing
00:08:39.68\00:08:41.58
and he just had a great
00:08:41.58\00:08:43.49
group of friends.
00:08:43.49\00:08:44.32
He was very accepted.
00:08:44.32\00:08:45.99
And I choose to go back to the
00:08:45.99\00:08:49.66
same school because it had an
00:08:49.66\00:08:50.33
elementary section.
00:08:50.33\00:08:51.99
I wasn't a part of that and it
00:08:51.99\00:08:53.73
was just a totally different
00:08:53.73\00:08:54.96
environment.
00:08:54.96\00:08:56.20
And so I chose to do my student
00:08:56.20\00:08:58.03
teaching at this school.
00:08:58.03\00:09:00.24
My brother was part of the S.A.
00:09:00.24\00:09:02.50
S.A. group.
00:09:02.50\00:09:03.54
>> The Student's Association?
00:09:03.54\00:09:04.47
>> The Student's Association,
00:09:04.47\00:09:05.11
yes.
00:09:05.11\00:09:06.27
And he was the student chaplain.
00:09:06.27\00:09:09.58
I went through Christian
00:09:09.58\00:09:11.28
schooling my whole entire school
00:09:11.28\00:09:13.48
so elementary to university I
00:09:13.48\00:09:15.25
went to Christian schools, so--
00:09:15.25\00:09:17.75
He was a student chaplain and
00:09:17.75\00:09:19.55
the chaplain at this school was
00:09:19.55\00:09:21.02
someone that was loved by
00:09:21.02\00:09:21.76
everybody.
00:09:21.76\00:09:22.76
He was just this kind, loving
00:09:22.76\00:09:23.73
man.
00:09:23.73\00:09:25.39
He seemed to just have Jesus
00:09:25.39\00:09:27.40
shining through him and my
00:09:27.40\00:09:30.10
brother just adored him.
00:09:30.10\00:09:31.67
>>So he was your brother's
00:09:31.67\00:09:32.40
mentor.
00:09:32.40\00:09:33.10
>>Yes.
00:09:33.10\00:09:34.14
He was my brother's mentor.
00:09:34.14\00:09:34.90
Actually, he was both my
00:09:34.90\00:09:36.34
brothers' mentor, my first and
00:09:36.34\00:09:38.07
second brothers because they
00:09:38.07\00:09:39.07
were both in high school at the
00:09:39.07\00:09:39.77
same time.
00:09:39.77\00:09:40.64
And he--
00:09:40.64\00:09:42.41
My brothers had confided in him
00:09:42.41\00:09:43.58
so he kind of knew what was
00:09:43.58\00:09:44.81
going on with the family and he
00:09:44.81\00:09:47.62
just knew how to embrace them
00:09:47.62\00:09:50.35
and the last year-- so my second
00:09:50.35\00:09:51.62
brother went to university and
00:09:51.62\00:09:53.56
the last year my youngest
00:09:53.56\00:09:54.59
brother was there, that's when I
00:09:54.59\00:09:57.63
did my student teaching so we
00:09:57.63\00:09:58.59
hung out a lot.
00:09:58.59\00:10:00.10
I helped my brother and his
00:10:00.10\00:10:01.36
friends and Pastor do evening
00:10:01.36\00:10:04.10
programs, do vespers, do youth
00:10:04.10\00:10:07.07
rallies and I had a lot of time
00:10:07.07\00:10:09.17
on my hands so it was great.
00:10:09.17\00:10:11.61
He had a young son.
00:10:11.61\00:10:12.67
His son was about
00:10:12.67\00:10:13.44
three years old.
00:10:13.44\00:10:14.88
He was happily married with a
00:10:14.88\00:10:17.15
wife that was a nurse and she
00:10:17.15\00:10:19.61
worked 3:00 to 11:00 and so she
00:10:19.61\00:10:21.28
was never around and he would
00:10:21.28\00:10:22.85
bring his son to the school and
00:10:22.85\00:10:25.35
a lot of kids loved watching his
00:10:25.35\00:10:26.55
son and I was one of those
00:10:26.55\00:10:28.89
people that helped with his son.
00:10:28.89\00:10:30.66
>> So he in actual fact became a
00:10:30.66\00:10:32.89
spiritual mentor to you, too.
00:10:32.89\00:10:34.30
>> Yes.
00:10:34.30\00:10:35.50
>> And this was the same one
00:10:35.50\00:10:36.83
that your brother was working
00:10:36.83\00:10:38.37
very closely with, the chaplain
00:10:38.37\00:10:40.60
of the school.
00:10:40.60\00:10:41.47
>> Yes.
00:10:41.47\00:10:42.60
>> So he really took your family
00:10:42.60\00:10:44.41
under his wings and under his
00:10:44.41\00:10:46.34
care, right?
00:10:46.34\00:10:47.14
>> He did.
00:10:47.14\00:10:48.21
Our family really trusted him,
00:10:48.21\00:10:49.38
even my mom.
00:10:49.38\00:10:51.55
She really trusted him and so
00:10:51.55\00:10:54.95
he was able to draw me in,
00:10:54.95\00:10:57.15
realizing that I had broken up
00:10:57.15\00:10:59.69
in a relationship at university,
00:10:59.69\00:11:01.72
not Sanj, but someone before him
00:11:01.72\00:11:03.93
and I was heart-broken and he
00:11:03.93\00:11:05.69
just knew how to
00:11:05.69\00:11:06.96
be there for me.
00:11:06.96\00:11:07.96
You know, I didn't have a father
00:11:07.96\00:11:10.50
my whole life and he just kind
00:11:10.50\00:11:12.47
of seemed like this loving, kind
00:11:12.47\00:11:15.04
man, someone I would have loved
00:11:15.04\00:11:16.84
to have been my father.
00:11:16.84\00:11:18.24
You know, growing up I always
00:11:18.24\00:11:19.61
looked at pastors and teachers
00:11:19.61\00:11:21.48
as these amazing, godly men and
00:11:21.48\00:11:24.78
always wished my dad had been
00:11:24.78\00:11:27.18
a dad like that.
00:11:27.18\00:11:28.48
So they were people that I
00:11:28.48\00:11:29.48
looked up to.
00:11:29.48\00:11:31.32
And so he was able to just be
00:11:31.32\00:11:34.76
there for me and I trusted him.
00:11:34.76\00:11:38.76
Eventually, with time, I just
00:11:38.76\00:11:41.23
started feeling a little uneasy
00:11:41.23\00:11:43.47
because he started saying
00:11:43.47\00:11:44.30
little things--
00:11:44.30\00:11:45.20
Now he was very affectionate
00:11:45.20\00:11:46.80
with all the kids in school.
00:11:46.80\00:11:48.64
He was affectionately known as
00:11:48.64\00:11:50.27
"Pastor," no one called him by
00:11:50.27\00:11:51.64
his name; the staff,
00:11:51.64\00:11:52.77
the teachers.
00:11:52.77\00:11:53.98
He was known as "Pastor."
00:11:53.98\00:11:55.21
It wasn't uncommon to see
00:11:55.21\00:11:57.18
a girl in his office leaning
00:11:57.18\00:11:58.35
against him.
00:11:58.35\00:12:00.08
He often would kiss girls on the
00:12:00.08\00:12:02.08
cheek-- very physical with them,
00:12:02.08\00:12:04.85
but that seemed to be the norm.
00:12:04.85\00:12:08.42
We came to the point where we
00:12:08.42\00:12:10.36
developed a friendship and I
00:12:10.36\00:12:11.86
felt very comfortable with him.
00:12:11.86\00:12:13.56
He knew all about my parents,
00:12:13.56\00:12:15.66
he knew about my yearning
00:12:15.66\00:12:18.13
for my dad and how much I had
00:12:18.13\00:12:19.47
been hurt by my dad.
00:12:19.47\00:12:20.97
He seemed to understand
00:12:20.97\00:12:22.20
my broken heart and
00:12:22.20\00:12:24.51
I was very lonely at that time
00:12:24.51\00:12:26.34
because all my friends at
00:12:26.34\00:12:28.34
school, we had all moved to
00:12:28.34\00:12:29.54
different parts of the U.S.
00:12:29.54\00:12:32.95
after graduation.
00:12:32.95\00:12:35.08
One day he asked me to
00:12:35.08\00:12:37.19
come and babysit--
00:12:37.19\00:12:38.39
Actually, his wife asked me to
00:12:38.39\00:12:39.49
come babysit and I went and
00:12:39.49\00:12:41.42
loved their son and, you know,
00:12:41.42\00:12:44.89
babysitting was kind of cool
00:12:44.89\00:12:45.89
because I could kind of and play
00:12:45.89\00:12:46.70
house with the little boy and,
00:12:46.70\00:12:48.36
you know, some of my fantasy
00:12:48.36\00:12:49.56
kind of was playing out there of
00:12:49.56\00:12:52.03
being a mom maybe.
00:12:52.03\00:12:54.47
So I babysat a few times and
00:12:54.47\00:12:57.14
one of the evenings the wife
00:12:57.14\00:12:59.34
asked if I could come babysit
00:12:59.34\00:13:00.44
again and I went over and
00:13:00.44\00:13:02.11
Pastor came home early
00:13:02.11\00:13:04.51
and he was packing for a trip
00:13:04.51\00:13:06.61
and he said, "Why don't you
00:13:06.61\00:13:08.35
come and keep me company.
00:13:08.35\00:13:09.45
Let me put the baby in"--
00:13:09.45\00:13:10.75
he wasn't a baby, he was
00:13:10.75\00:13:11.69
three, four years old.
00:13:11.69\00:13:12.65
He said, "Let me put him in the
00:13:12.65\00:13:13.76
bathtub and keep me company
00:13:13.76\00:13:15.46
and I'll pay you when
00:13:15.46\00:13:16.09
I'm done."
00:13:16.09\00:13:17.29
And so by this point I had no
00:13:17.29\00:13:20.86
reservations.
00:13:20.86\00:13:22.23
I was very comfortable with him,
00:13:22.23\00:13:23.60
I was just chatting.
00:13:23.60\00:13:25.27
He had his stuff in the guest
00:13:25.27\00:13:27.47
room and so I was sitting on the
00:13:27.47\00:13:28.47
bed there and talking about his
00:13:28.47\00:13:29.97
trip and the next thing I know,
00:13:29.97\00:13:32.61
he was on top of me
00:13:32.61\00:13:34.04
and I was maybe 105 pounds.
00:13:34.04\00:13:36.95
I was very, very tiny.
00:13:36.95\00:13:39.01
And he was on top of me and I
00:13:39.01\00:13:41.52
begged him to stop and I told
00:13:41.52\00:13:43.05
him I was a virgin and that he
00:13:43.05\00:13:44.15
was hurting me.
00:13:44.15\00:13:45.55
And...
00:13:45.55\00:13:47.19
the next thing I know
00:13:47.62\00:13:48.46
I was being raped.
00:13:48.46\00:13:49.99
I have no real memory of how I
00:13:51.89\00:13:54.56
got home that night.
00:13:54.56\00:13:56.50
I know I drove there, but--
00:13:56.50\00:13:58.83
I know I drove to his place so
00:13:58.83\00:14:01.00
obviously I drove home, but that
00:14:01.00\00:14:02.17
is the only way I know
00:14:02.17\00:14:03.57
I got home.
00:14:03.57\00:14:05.01
I went home and I went into the
00:14:05.01\00:14:07.04
bathroom and sat on the toilet
00:14:07.04\00:14:10.05
and I looked at my panties and
00:14:10.05\00:14:11.81
the tell-tale blood was there.
00:14:11.81\00:14:13.55
I had just lost my virginity.
00:14:13.55\00:14:15.72
I'm not sure how long I sat
00:14:15.72\00:14:17.52
there except my brother came
00:14:17.52\00:14:18.52
banging on the bathroom door
00:14:18.52\00:14:19.79
telling me he needed to use the
00:14:19.79\00:14:20.22
bathroom.
00:14:20.22\00:14:21.66
I went to my bedroom
00:14:21.66\00:14:23.43
and I was standing beside my
00:14:23.43\00:14:26.06
dresser and I knew in my gut
00:14:26.06\00:14:27.86
I should call the police.
00:14:27.86\00:14:29.03
I mean, I was in shock,
00:14:29.03\00:14:32.17
I was angry
00:14:32.17\00:14:34.97
and I should have called
00:14:34.97\00:14:35.54
the police.
00:14:35.54\00:14:36.54
And yet as quickly as I thought
00:14:36.54\00:14:38.14
about calling the police,
00:14:38.14\00:14:39.17
that thought went away.
00:14:39.17\00:14:42.84
There was one time in
00:14:42.84\00:14:44.81
particular, my youngest brother
00:14:44.81\00:14:46.82
had gone to the bathroom and
00:14:46.82\00:14:48.42
he flushed the toilet and
00:14:48.42\00:14:49.95
dropped the toilet seat.
00:14:49.95\00:14:51.32
Most of our kids drop the toilet
00:14:51.32\00:14:52.62
seat, it makes that loud bang.
00:14:52.62\00:14:55.19
My dad came running from the
00:14:55.19\00:14:56.59
kitchen and started screaming to
00:14:56.59\00:14:58.63
my brother and said, "How many
00:14:58.63\00:15:00.40
times have I told you not to
00:15:00.40\00:15:02.10
drop the toilet seat lid?
00:15:02.10\00:15:03.57
I'm going to teach you
00:15:03.57\00:15:04.37
a lesson."
00:15:04.37\00:15:05.70
And he grabbed my brother,
00:15:05.70\00:15:06.47
he locked the bathroom door and
00:15:06.47\00:15:08.27
he started beating my brother.
00:15:08.27\00:15:10.71
And my mom, she went to the
00:15:10.71\00:15:14.44
bathroom and she was trying to
00:15:14.44\00:15:15.38
undo the lock and he said,
00:15:15.38\00:15:17.31
"If you come in here,
00:15:17.31\00:15:18.08
I'm going to kill you."
00:15:18.08\00:15:19.38
And by this time my other
00:15:19.38\00:15:21.18
brother went and got the butter
00:15:21.18\00:15:22.22
knife and my mom unscrewed the
00:15:22.22\00:15:23.45
door and he grabbed her by the
00:15:23.45\00:15:25.69
hair and he started beating her
00:15:25.69\00:15:27.29
with a two-by-four.
00:15:27.29\00:15:28.89
>> So did you call the police?
00:15:30.69\00:15:32.56
>> I called the police, but by
00:15:32.56\00:15:33.93
this time my dad started to calm
00:15:33.93\00:15:35.40
down and the police came in and
00:15:35.40\00:15:38.03
they took their notes, they saw
00:15:38.03\00:15:40.00
my mom's black and blue legs,
00:15:40.00\00:15:41.30
they asked us about what
00:15:41.30\00:15:42.44
happened and the next thing I
00:15:42.44\00:15:45.14
knew was that the police and my
00:15:45.14\00:15:46.71
dad were sitting at the table
00:15:46.71\00:15:48.21
discussing the woes of having
00:15:48.21\00:15:50.15
wives and how hard it was to
00:15:50.15\00:15:52.68
deal with them and marriage and
00:15:52.68\00:15:54.72
just all that.
00:15:54.72\00:15:56.69
>> So this was an experience you
00:15:56.69\00:15:57.92
had as a child.
00:15:57.92\00:15:58.85
>> Yes.
00:15:58.85\00:15:59.65
>> And now after
00:15:59.65\00:16:03.36
you've been abused,
00:16:03.36\00:16:04.53
you've been raped by this
00:16:04.53\00:16:06.33
leader, you now think to
00:16:06.33\00:16:08.66
yourself, "I should call
00:16:08.66\00:16:09.23
the police."
00:16:09.23\00:16:10.03
But then automatically you say,
00:16:10.03\00:16:12.10
"No, I can't because I can't
00:16:12.10\00:16:13.07
trust the police."
00:16:13.07\00:16:13.74
>> Right.
00:16:13.74\00:16:14.77
>> Because of your association
00:16:14.77\00:16:15.77
that you had as a little girl so
00:16:15.77\00:16:17.54
you're like, "No, I"m not going
00:16:17.54\00:16:19.04
to call them because what's the
00:16:19.04\00:16:19.64
use?" Right?
00:16:19.64\00:16:20.44
>> That's right.
00:16:20.44\00:16:21.34
Actually I wasn't a little
00:16:21.34\00:16:22.41
girl when that happened, I was
00:16:22.41\00:16:23.55
actually sixteen when we called
00:16:23.55\00:16:26.85
the police so I was very aware
00:16:26.85\00:16:28.02
of what was happening.
00:16:28.02\00:16:29.75
And as my dad would drive around
00:16:29.75\00:16:31.59
town, he would see this police
00:16:31.59\00:16:33.29
and they would wave to each
00:16:33.29\00:16:34.12
other as they passed each other.
00:16:34.12\00:16:36.06
So for me, I knew the police
00:16:36.06\00:16:37.66
were not to be trusted.
00:16:37.66\00:16:39.06
And...
00:16:39.06\00:16:39.89
I just kept it a secret.
00:16:41.26\00:16:42.90
I didn't tell anyone and it was
00:16:42.90\00:16:45.40
a very lonely, lonely, scary
00:16:45.40\00:16:46.63
time for me.
00:16:46.63\00:16:47.67
>> So how long did you
00:16:50.27\00:16:52.71
keep this in before you even
00:16:52.71\00:16:54.58
told someone?
00:16:54.58\00:16:56.24
>> I would say probably
00:16:56.24\00:16:56.91
a couple of weeks.
00:16:56.91\00:16:58.45
Probably a couple of weeks.
00:16:58.45\00:17:00.38
And I ended up telling
00:17:00.38\00:17:03.35
a couple of girlfriends of mine
00:17:03.35\00:17:05.69
and basically nothing happened.
00:17:05.69\00:17:08.69
We were all at that age where,
00:17:10.53\00:17:12.43
what did you do?
00:17:12.43\00:17:13.83
You know, and I asked them not
00:17:13.83\00:17:14.83
to tell their parents because I
00:17:14.83\00:17:16.00
was scared.
00:17:16.00\00:17:17.77
It was his word against mine
00:17:17.77\00:17:19.83
and what would people say?
00:17:19.83\00:17:21.64
They wouldn't believe him.
00:17:21.64\00:17:22.77
He was loved by our whole
00:17:22.77\00:17:23.64
community.
00:17:23.64\00:17:24.77
Sometimes it's hard to see God
00:17:27.08\00:17:28.58
in this whole thing and I will
00:17:28.58\00:17:30.81
say that I had a little temper
00:17:30.81\00:17:32.28
tantrum with God for a short
00:17:32.28\00:17:33.31
period of time
00:17:33.31\00:17:35.52
of how this could happen because
00:17:35.52\00:17:37.29
I had been a good girl my whole
00:17:37.29\00:17:38.39
entire life.
00:17:38.39\00:17:39.92
I lived by the book.
00:17:39.92\00:17:41.96
Probably from fear of being beat
00:17:41.96\00:17:44.09
by my dad, but at the same time,
00:17:44.09\00:17:46.59
I always did the right thing.
00:17:46.59\00:17:47.66
As God had it, I was able to go
00:17:50.10\00:17:52.77
to Maryland and do one more
00:17:52.77\00:17:55.04
course through the mail until I
00:17:55.04\00:17:58.54
was able to leave the town.
00:17:58.54\00:18:01.11
And I finished my course and
00:18:01.11\00:18:04.35
this pastor still kept in touch
00:18:04.35\00:18:05.78
with me.
00:18:05.78\00:18:06.65
He acted like nothing happened.
00:18:06.65\00:18:07.15
You know, sometimes what people
00:18:09.98\00:18:10.89
don't understand is, why did you
00:18:10.89\00:18:12.29
keep in touch with him?
00:18:12.29\00:18:13.62
But, you know what, after
00:18:13.62\00:18:14.92
something horrific like that
00:18:14.92\00:18:15.99
happens, why not?
00:18:15.99\00:18:18.19
You've lost everything anyway,
00:18:18.19\00:18:19.66
you know, and so I just felt
00:18:19.66\00:18:22.13
like I had nothing to lose.
00:18:22.13\00:18:23.40
Who was going to believe me?
00:18:23.40\00:18:24.60
You know.
00:18:24.60\00:18:24.87
So I moved and I finished my
00:18:27.70\00:18:30.51
course work and in August I went
00:18:30.51\00:18:32.67
back to my university and I was
00:18:32.67\00:18:33.74
going to graduate.
00:18:33.74\00:18:35.64
And Sanj actually ended up
00:18:35.64\00:18:38.21
coming for that weekend, too.
00:18:38.21\00:18:41.22
And I will add here that, as I
00:18:41.22\00:18:44.65
said, I have a very close
00:18:44.65\00:18:45.92
relationship with God and I
00:18:45.92\00:18:47.56
loved Sanj forever.
00:18:47.56\00:18:49.42
Like from my freshman year.
00:18:49.42\00:18:50.69
And I would doodle in my books.
00:18:50.69\00:18:52.69
Instead of studying, I would
00:18:52.69\00:18:53.80
doodle in my books.
00:18:53.80\00:18:54.86
I'd draw little hearts and
00:18:54.86\00:18:56.16
"I love Sanj."
00:18:56.16\00:18:57.33
And, you know, if you read my
00:18:57.33\00:18:58.80
journals, they're so
00:18:58.80\00:18:59.90
embarrassing, but I would
00:18:59.90\00:19:00.77
actually say, "Please, God,
00:19:00.77\00:19:02.27
could I have him? I want him!"
00:19:02.27\00:19:04.27
And you know, I'm sure God was
00:19:04.27\00:19:05.54
just chuckling, you know, it's
00:19:05.54\00:19:07.88
in His time, right?
00:19:07.88\00:19:09.28
And so my graduation weekend
00:19:09.28\00:19:11.55
we got together and we started
00:19:11.55\00:19:14.78
dating and we dated for two
00:19:14.78\00:19:16.28
years and during this time I had
00:19:16.28\00:19:19.99
confided in Sanj before we
00:19:19.99\00:19:21.52
started dating that I was raped
00:19:21.52\00:19:23.02
and it was just one of those
00:19:23.02\00:19:24.79
things like, none of us knew
00:19:24.79\00:19:26.53
what to do, what to say, you
00:19:26.53\00:19:28.53
know, he was there for me, but
00:19:28.53\00:19:31.33
none of us knew what to do
00:19:31.33\00:19:31.97
with that.
00:19:31.97\00:19:32.97
>> It must have been so
00:19:32.97\00:19:33.90
difficult for you, Sanj,
00:19:33.90\00:19:35.34
when you--
00:19:35.34\00:19:36.30
>> I don't even think it
00:19:36.30\00:19:37.94
registered on me, the depth of
00:19:37.94\00:19:39.54
how horrible it was at that
00:19:39.54\00:19:40.28
time, right?
00:19:40.28\00:19:42.08
Because we were friends at the
00:19:42.08\00:19:43.08
time, it's like, what do I do?
00:19:43.08\00:19:44.81
It's a tough--
00:19:44.81\00:19:46.18
difficult time in life.
00:19:46.18\00:19:47.35
Your life is so centred around
00:19:47.35\00:19:48.68
those years, right?
00:19:48.68\00:19:50.75
I don't think I understood it
00:19:50.75\00:19:53.49
as I do now, obviously, right?
00:19:53.49\00:19:55.92
>> So you were friends for two
00:19:55.92\00:19:58.36
years and then did you pop the
00:19:58.36\00:20:00.10
question then, Sanj? After--
00:20:00.10\00:20:02.60
>> So we were friends for many
00:20:02.60\00:20:03.40
years before we were dating.
00:20:03.40\00:20:05.07
And then we dated for two years
00:20:05.07\00:20:06.30
and then, yes, I did pop the
00:20:06.30\00:20:08.64
question.
00:20:08.64\00:20:09.27
[laughter]
00:20:09.27\00:20:10.17
>> And she said, "Yes."
00:20:10.17\00:20:11.34
>> Yes, surprisingly, right?
00:20:11.34\00:20:13.04
[laughter]
00:20:13.04\00:20:14.41
>> So now, this has now taken
00:20:14.41\00:20:18.25
this complication to the next
00:20:18.25\00:20:20.08
level now because now you're
00:20:20.08\00:20:22.35
going to get married and you
00:20:22.35\00:20:24.12
know that this has happened to
00:20:24.12\00:20:26.09
her, right?
00:20:26.09\00:20:27.12
So obviously this is going to
00:20:27.12\00:20:28.36
affect your marriage in some
00:20:28.36\00:20:30.33
way, right?
00:20:30.33\00:20:31.83
>> Yeah, we understood that and,
00:20:31.83\00:20:33.13
you know, before we got married
00:20:33.13\00:20:34.30
we started some pre-marital
00:20:34.30\00:20:35.83
counselling with our church
00:20:35.83\00:20:37.23
pastor who we kind of knew and
00:20:37.23\00:20:41.00
so we actually spoke about it.
00:20:41.00\00:20:42.64
Reema brought it up and said,
00:20:42.64\00:20:44.14
"This is something we probably
00:20:44.14\00:20:45.37
need to deal with before we get
00:20:45.37\00:20:46.57
married."
00:20:46.57\00:20:47.61
Because it was one of those
00:20:47.61\00:20:48.91
things that always underlying,
00:20:48.91\00:20:49.91
but you didn't understand how
00:20:49.91\00:20:51.08
much it was affecting your
00:20:51.08\00:20:52.11
relationship.
00:20:52.11\00:20:53.25
It was there, right?
00:20:53.25\00:20:54.82
And so we felt like before we
00:20:54.82\00:20:56.15
get married, this is something
00:20:56.15\00:20:57.42
we really need to work through
00:20:57.42\00:20:58.62
and deal with.
00:20:58.62\00:20:59.42
We're not going to hide from
00:20:59.42\00:21:00.22
this thing.
00:21:00.22\00:21:01.46
If you know anything about
00:21:01.46\00:21:02.16
this thing.
00:21:02.16\00:21:03.19
hide from anything.
00:21:03.19\00:21:04.39
She confronts everything
00:21:04.39\00:21:04.93
head on.
00:21:04.93\00:21:07.40
So that's kind of what we were
00:21:07.40\00:21:08.43
doing with the pastor
00:21:08.43\00:21:08.96
at the time.
00:21:08.96\00:21:09.73
We were kind of working through
00:21:09.73\00:21:10.03
at the time.
00:21:10.13\00:21:11.07
>> I think the straw that broke
00:21:11.07\00:21:12.33
the camel's back for us was that
00:21:12.33\00:21:15.34
a weekend at church the pastor
00:21:15.34\00:21:17.71
was in the same town talking to
00:21:17.71\00:21:21.51
the students at one of the
00:21:21.51\00:21:22.34
Christian schools by us.
00:21:22.34\00:21:24.75
And I was scared because I
00:21:24.75\00:21:26.98
didn't want to see him and Sanj
00:21:26.98\00:21:27.85
wanted to hurt him which
00:21:27.85\00:21:29.98
probably would have not been
00:21:29.98\00:21:30.79
legal and so it really started
00:21:30.79\00:21:32.99
something between us that we
00:21:32.99\00:21:35.49
knew we needed to seek help
00:21:35.49\00:21:36.76
which is when we went and talked
00:21:36.76\00:21:37.96
to the pastor--
00:21:37.96\00:21:39.86
our marriage counsellor,
00:21:39.86\00:21:40.83
and I actually went and I shared
00:21:40.83\00:21:41.90
my story with him.
00:21:41.90\00:21:42.96
And he was just appalled.
00:21:42.96\00:21:44.73
He said, "Reema, you have to do
00:21:44.73\00:21:46.84
something about it
00:21:46.84\00:21:47.64
and I will help you."
00:21:47.64\00:21:49.07
No one has ever said that to me
00:21:51.01\00:21:53.11
ever, you know, we lived with--
00:21:53.11\00:21:55.61
I lived with abuse,
00:21:55.61\00:21:56.61
I lived with a dad that
00:21:56.61\00:21:57.51
was beating me and not one
00:21:57.51\00:21:59.41
person stepped up.
00:21:59.41\00:22:01.05
And our school community did
00:22:01.05\00:22:02.52
know my dad was being very
00:22:02.52\00:22:03.32
abusive to us.
00:22:03.32\00:22:05.09
There was a lot of things that
00:22:05.09\00:22:06.22
were known that nobody--
00:22:06.22\00:22:08.26
nobody stepped up to.
00:22:08.26\00:22:09.99
So when he said that,
00:22:09.99\00:22:13.03
it really was life-changing for
00:22:13.03\00:22:14.86
me that he cared enough to do
00:22:14.86\00:22:16.46
something about this.
00:22:16.46\00:22:18.67
From that point on what ended
00:22:18.67\00:22:19.90
up happening is he asked me
00:22:19.90\00:22:21.27
to do a recording,
00:22:21.27\00:22:23.34
call the pastor and
00:22:23.34\00:22:24.24
do a recording of him.
00:22:24.24\00:22:25.97
And that was the hardest thing--
00:22:25.97\00:22:28.34
I think that was the scariest
00:22:28.34\00:22:29.21
thing I've ever done,
00:22:29.21\00:22:30.11
next to this.
00:22:30.11\00:22:31.01
[laughter]
00:22:31.01\00:22:33.35
But it was back in the day so we
00:22:33.35\00:22:34.42
had the tape recorder and we had
00:22:34.42\00:22:36.28
the land line and so--
00:22:36.28\00:22:38.49
and I was actually living in
00:22:38.49\00:22:39.79
Ottawa by myself and Sanj was
00:22:39.79\00:22:42.42
in Toronto and so we were
00:22:42.42\00:22:43.86
dating long distance.
00:22:43.86\00:22:44.89
I was all alone in my apartment.
00:22:44.89\00:22:46.70
I put the phone there and I kind
00:22:46.70\00:22:48.30
of practised a few times because
00:22:48.30\00:22:49.46
I was so scared he'd know I was
00:22:49.46\00:22:50.60
taping him.
00:22:50.60\00:22:52.50
And I called the pastor and
00:22:52.50\00:22:56.57
you know, as he always was
00:22:56.57\00:22:58.21
he was very charismatic and
00:22:58.21\00:22:59.34
you know,
00:22:59.34\00:23:00.44
"Oh, it's so lovely to hear
00:23:00.44\00:23:01.41
from you," you know.
00:23:01.41\00:23:03.48
And during that time, I said,
00:23:03.48\00:23:05.95
you know, "I'm getting married
00:23:05.95\00:23:06.88
and there's just a few things
00:23:06.88\00:23:08.52
that I really need to resolve
00:23:08.52\00:23:10.72
for myself and I need to ask you
00:23:10.72\00:23:12.75
a few things."
00:23:12.75\00:23:14.99
My biggest regret in that
00:23:14.99\00:23:16.22
conversation is I wish I had
00:23:16.22\00:23:18.23
called him out on raping me
00:23:18.23\00:23:19.93
but what I said to to him was
00:23:19.93\00:23:21.93
"You took my virginity away
00:23:21.93\00:23:23.83
without my consent."
00:23:23.83\00:23:24.47
In the recording, which was
00:23:26.57\00:23:27.50
probably about fifteen minutes
00:23:27.50\00:23:29.07
he never once denied it.
00:23:29.07\00:23:31.81
We talked about a lot of things
00:23:31.81\00:23:33.61
but he never once denied
00:23:33.61\00:23:36.08
raping me.
00:23:36.08\00:23:38.01
As we ended the conversation
00:23:38.01\00:23:40.22
we took the tape back to our
00:23:40.22\00:23:42.45
pastor-- to our counsellor
00:23:42.45\00:23:45.02
and he called the school
00:23:45.02\00:23:47.06
that the pastor was working at
00:23:47.06\00:23:48.99
and he let them kn
00:23:49.06\00:23:50.53
that this is what happened.
00:23:50.53\00:23:52.06
Pastor denied it of course and
00:23:52.06\00:23:53.76
then when they said there was a
00:23:53.76\00:23:55.06
tape recording, he immediately
00:23:55.06\00:23:57.30
confessed and he said
00:23:57.30\00:24:00.10
"What would they like?"
00:24:00.10\00:24:01.80
And so at this point, being
00:24:01.80\00:24:02.84
young and naive in our early
00:24:02.84\00:24:04.61
20's and 30's, we didn't know
00:24:04.61\00:24:05.81
what to ask.
00:24:05.81\00:24:07.34
So we asked that he turn in his
00:24:07.34\00:24:09.11
ministerial license and not be
00:24:09.11\00:24:12.25
allowed in our church
00:24:12.25\00:24:14.02
system anymore.
00:24:14.02\00:24:16.38
>> And that he wouldn't
00:24:16.38\00:24:17.42
contact you.
00:24:17.42\00:24:18.59
>> That's right. And he wouldn't
00:24:18.59\00:24:19.25
contact me.
00:24:19.25\00:24:20.79
And so he did do that
00:24:20.79\00:24:23.09
but the interesting thing is
00:24:23.09\00:24:25.86
that he asked if he could write
00:24:25.86\00:24:29.03
a letter to the school community
00:24:29.03\00:24:31.83
and in the letter he wrote that
00:24:31.83\00:24:34.00
around this time that his mom
00:24:34.00\00:24:35.64
had died and a young lady had
00:24:35.64\00:24:37.67
come into his life and taken
00:24:37.67\00:24:38.94
advantage of him.
00:24:38.94\00:24:39.94
And so he made a mistake and he
00:24:41.64\00:24:43.78
had to deal with the
00:24:43.78\00:24:44.45
consequences so he was
00:24:44.45\00:24:45.95
going to resign.
00:24:45.95\00:24:47.85
Not only did he resign, but the
00:24:47.85\00:24:49.15
principal, who was one of his
00:24:49.15\00:24:50.65
closest friends, wrote him a
00:24:50.65\00:24:52.15
glowing recommendation
00:24:52.15\00:24:55.12
so he was able to move on.
00:24:55.12\00:24:57.43
>> So, Reema, you know the
00:24:57.43\00:24:58.89
difference today that there is a
00:24:58.89\00:25:00.76
difference between one man and
00:25:00.76\00:25:02.20
another man, between one pastor
00:25:02.20\00:25:03.20
and another pastor, between one
00:25:03.20\00:25:04.67
police officer and another
00:25:04.67\00:25:05.70
police officer
00:25:05.70\00:25:07.74
and the church: how do you
00:25:07.74\00:25:09.94
relate to your church today and
00:25:09.94\00:25:11.94
what has it helped you to do in
00:25:11.94\00:25:13.91
relating to others who are
00:25:13.91\00:25:15.28
victims of abuse?
00:25:15.28\00:25:17.75
>> Well, after this happened
00:25:17.75\00:25:19.98
I begged God to somehow use
00:25:19.98\00:25:22.25
this pain because I felt like
00:25:22.25\00:25:23.85
if He was using my pain
00:25:23.85\00:25:25.09
that pain would have not
00:25:25.09\00:25:25.69
been wasted.
00:25:25.69\00:25:26.89
And I know this has happened to
00:25:26.89\00:25:28.99
many people and that I could
00:25:28.99\00:25:30.89
help them with God's power.
00:25:30.89\00:25:33.70
But 25 years went by and
00:25:33.70\00:25:36.26
you know, I didn't understand
00:25:36.26\00:25:39.10
why God wasn't putting
00:25:39.10\00:25:40.87
something in place or
00:25:40.87\00:25:42.24
why He wasn't using my pain.
00:25:42.24\00:25:43.51
So 25 years later, my youngest
00:25:43.51\00:25:46.27
brother moved out west and he
00:25:46.27\00:25:47.98
was the ministerial director and
00:25:47.98\00:25:50.25
asked me if I would come and
00:25:50.25\00:25:51.48
share my story at one of the
00:25:51.48\00:25:53.25
pastoral meetings.
00:25:53.25\00:25:55.15
And it was the first time I ever
00:25:55.15\00:25:56.75
shared it, I was shaking, I was
00:25:56.75\00:25:58.29
scared to death because I was
00:25:58.29\00:25:59.72
speaking to a room full of
00:25:59.72\00:26:00.69
pastors.
00:26:00.69\00:26:02.56
And, you know, God does amazing,
00:26:02.56\00:26:04.76
amazing things, but I ended it
00:26:04.76\00:26:07.60
by telling them that it's been
00:26:07.60\00:26:09.53
25 years and not one person
00:26:09.53\00:26:11.57
from my church
00:26:11.57\00:26:13.37
has ever said they were sorry.
00:26:13.37\00:26:15.60
Not one person from my church
00:26:15.60\00:26:16.71
ever reached out to me.
00:26:16.71\00:26:17.97
And...
00:26:18.97\00:26:20.74
it was very emotional
00:26:20.74\00:26:23.14
you know, and I sat down
00:26:23.14\00:26:25.05
and at that moment
00:26:25.05\00:26:26.72
the conference president
00:26:26.72\00:26:28.02
stood up and he took
00:26:28.02\00:26:29.02
the mic from my brother
00:26:29.02\00:26:30.19
and came to me and
00:26:30.19\00:26:31.52
stood beside me--
00:26:31.52\00:26:32.29
stood in front of me and
00:26:32.29\00:26:33.46
he said, "You want an apology
00:26:33.46\00:26:36.76
from your church."
00:26:36.76\00:26:38.23
And he said "I, as a minister
00:26:38.23\00:26:40.20
of the gospel of this church
00:26:40.20\00:26:42.36
am sorry."
00:26:42.36\00:26:44.80
And it was a very powerful
00:26:44.80\00:26:46.17
moment for me.
00:26:46.17\00:26:48.70
I didn't realize that I needed
00:26:48.70\00:26:50.71
that, but it was the start of
00:26:50.71\00:26:52.91
healing for me.
00:26:52.91\00:26:54.28
It was a huge moment and
00:26:54.28\00:26:57.65
it was a start.
00:26:57.65\00:26:58.51
>> Wow!
00:26:58.51\00:27:00.25
Well, Reema, unfortunately we've
00:27:00.25\00:27:01.75
run out of time, but we are
00:27:01.75\00:27:04.22
going to continue with your
00:27:04.22\00:27:05.35
story in the next episode and
00:27:05.35\00:27:07.39
in the next episode we are
00:27:07.39\00:27:08.66
going to share more of Sanj's
00:27:08.66\00:27:11.66
side of the story as well, so--
00:27:11.66\00:27:13.23
Friends, we thank you
00:27:13.23\00:27:14.50
for joining us.
00:27:14.50\00:27:15.53
Next time I just encourage you
00:27:15.53\00:27:16.93
to be here next week as we
00:27:16.93\00:27:20.20
continue with Reema
00:27:20.20\00:27:21.87
and Sanj's story.
00:27:21.87\00:27:23.27
We're going to look at how God
00:27:23.27\00:27:25.24
has led them to experience
00:27:25.24\00:27:27.48
healing, to lead others to
00:27:27.48\00:27:29.14
experience healing,
00:27:29.14\00:27:30.65
forgiveness, and look at
00:27:30.65\00:27:33.15
how we can be aware
00:27:33.15\00:27:35.92
of how much those who are
00:27:35.92\00:27:37.35
vulnerable and hurting in our
00:27:37.35\00:27:38.82
society need to be protected.
00:27:38.82\00:27:41.09
And so let's just close with a
00:27:41.09\00:27:42.02
word of prayer.
00:27:42.02\00:27:43.83
Father in heaven, we thank You,
00:27:43.83\00:27:44.93
Lord, for Your healing.
00:27:44.93\00:27:47.36
We thank You that each of us is
00:27:47.36\00:27:48.30
created in the image of God and
00:27:48.30\00:27:50.47
Jesus said, "What you have
00:27:50.47\00:27:52.03
done to the least of these
00:27:52.03\00:27:53.27
you have done it unto Me."
00:27:53.27\00:27:54.77
And I thank You, Lord, for
00:27:54.77\00:27:55.80
identifying Yourself with those
00:27:55.80\00:27:57.67
who have been hurt.
00:27:57.67\00:27:59.34
And, Lord, I pray that You can
00:27:59.34\00:28:02.38
help us to bring healing to
00:28:02.38\00:28:04.68
others through Your name.
00:28:04.68\00:28:06.45
We pray in Jesus' name, amen.
00:28:06.45\00:28:08.85
Friends, thank you for joining
00:28:08.85\00:28:10.09
us and let me just remind you
00:28:10.09\00:28:12.15
again of the words of Jesus
00:28:12.15\00:28:13.19
when He said, "It is written
00:28:13.19\00:28:15.36
man shall not live by
00:28:15.36\00:28:16.49
bread alone, but by every word
00:28:16.49\00:28:18.56
that proceeds out of the
00:28:18.56\00:28:19.73
mouth of God."
00:28:19.73\00:28:21.16
¤¤
00:28:21.16\00:28:46.59