¤¤ ¤¤
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>> It has stood
the test of time.
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>> God's Book, the
Bible. Still relevant in today's
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complex world.
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"It Is Written," sharing
messages of hope around the
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world.
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>> Welcome and thank
you for joining us on
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"It Is Written Canada." In
our previous episode, we were
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talking to Lee Venden, who likes
to call himself a person who
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helps people to sharpen
their tool in their relationship
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with Jesus Christ. And
so Lee has been talking to
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us about his father,
Morris Venden, and how he
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struggled to have that
relationship with God and how he
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found that to become meaningful
as he connected with God through
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the reading of His word, through
praying, and through sharing
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that relationship
with others. >> Mm-hmm.
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And in our previous time
together, we spoke about the
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importance of not just having
a head knowledge but having a
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heart experience with God
and really getting to know Him
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and to fall in
love with Him. >> Yeah.
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>> Yeah. To have
that real connection,
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right? >> Right Yeah.
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>> There's a big difference
between having it here and
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having it here. >> Mm-hmm.
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>> When I was in college, I was
one day sitting in my dorm room,
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and I thought, "You know,
what would be the qualities
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that you would want to have in a
life companion?" and I actually
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wrote a list of them, like,
you know, and as I looked at my
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list, all I said and I realized
there was a particular girl
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that my parents had
recommended. >> [ Chuckles ]
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>> And the truth is, I had
all kinds of classmates that
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recommended the
same girl to me. >> Mm.
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>> But we'd never done anything
because we were friends but
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there had never been even the
slightest idea in my mind that
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we could have a romance. I
wasn't attracted to her that
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way. >> But as
I made my list and
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looked at it, all of a
sudden I realized, she had 100%.
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And I thought, "Wow, if she's
100%, then I must be missing the
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mark, so I better go after
this girl, even though I'm not
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attracted to her," like, the
"click" sort of attraction, you
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know, the spark of
romance, or whatever.
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So I asked her for a
date, which is kind of funny.
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When I called her up,
she said, "Are you kidding?"
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You know, it was like --
She had no interest in it,
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either. [ Laughter ]
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>> And I said, "You know, if we
were ever gonna become a number
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like our friends and our parents
said we should be, you know, how
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do we go about that?" She
said, "Well, you'd have to
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ask for me a date, but, I
mean, that would be stupid."
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And I said, "Well, I'm gonna ask
you for a date," and she goes,
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"Come on, really?" And
I said, "Yeah, really."
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So, anyway, I took her
out, and there was no magic.
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There was no spark,
there was no click, no romance.
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And as we were walking
back, walking her back to her
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dormitory, I said,
"Well, how'd it work for you?"
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She said, "Didn't work at all,"
you know, "What about you?"
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I said, "Didn't
work for me, either."
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Long story short, we tried a few
more dates to see if we could
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get something to work. >> Yeah.
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>> But it never did. The
plane just taxied down the
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runway and never took
off. >> There was no chemistry.
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>> There was no
chemistry. That's a good word.
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No chemistry, yeah. Yeah.
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And then, later, I moved to a
different college, and I met the
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woman who actually
became my wife, Margie.
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Now she's my partner. And
I like to tell people there
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was no spark with Margie,
there was a nuclear reaction.
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[ Laughter ] And
with the first girl, the
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plane just taxied.
With Margie, it was a rocket
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going straight up, you know?
And we've been "clicking" ever
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since. But
there's a big difference
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between having it here on
paper and having it here in your
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heart. >> Mm.
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>> Yeah. >> And I
think that's what we
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were talking
about. >> Right. Yeah.
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>> Mm-hmm. That
sounds like a John 3.
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Jesus is meeting with a
religious leader, sort of like
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the experience that you were
talking about in our previous
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episode with your dad. >> Yeah.
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>> And how he was
a religious leader.
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>> Yeah. >> But he
just didn't, you know,
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he couldn't see it, right?
It says in John 3:3 "You can't
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see the Kingdom of God
unless you are born again."
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>> Born again. Yeah. That
would be the chemistry you
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just referred to. >> Yeah.
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Yeah, you need the
chemistry. >> Yeah, you need the
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chemistry. >> If
you don't have the
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chemistry, it's
just words. >> Yeah.
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>> It's just information.
In fact, without the chemistry,
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the Bible is
like an encyclopedia.
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>> Mm. >> But once you get that
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chemistry or the click, or, as
Jesus referred to it, the "born
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again" thing, then it becomes
like a love letter from a
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fiancée, and
there's a big difference.
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I read a love letter a
lot differently than I read an
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encyclopedia, you
know? >> That's true. Yeah.
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>> Mm-hmm. Absolutely. >>
But you referenced Nicodemus,
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and I think that's a really good
connection point because when
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Nicodemus came to Jesus, he was
a spiritual leader, and a mover
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and a shaker, actually. >> Yes.
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>> Mm-hmm. >> Jesus
even referred to him at
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one point as the
teacher in Israel!
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>> Mm. >> Mm-hmm.
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>> So, I mean,
this guy is somebody.
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>> He's somebody, yeah. >>
But he says, "Jesus, could we
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have a spiritual discussion?"
and Jesus said, "I don't think
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so. You referenced it, John 3:3.
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Jesus said, "I don't think
so because you'd have to be born
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again first. >> Yeah.
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>> Which was Jesus' way of
saying the heart part will never
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engage without the new birth.
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>> Mm. >> Right. >>
So then Nicodemus says,
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"Well, how can a man get born
again?" You know, "How can you
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be born again? Same time, you
can't go back in your mother's
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womb. What do you
mean?" >> Mm-hmm. >> Yeah.
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>> So then Jesus says, "Well,
I'm actually talking about
something that's supernatural,"
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and He tells them a story about
the Holy Spirit, you know, or
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the wind. I guess he tells him
that story about the wind. >>
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Mm-hmm. >> And He says,
"Nicodemus, you don't know where
the wind is coming from, and you
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don't know where it's going, but
when the wind blows through the
leaves of that tree over there,
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you can tell something's
happening. >> Happening, yeah.
>> So it's invisible.
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>> Yeah, it's invisible, but you
can feel it, and you can also
feel when the wind is blowing.
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>> Yeah. >> You can see
the affects of the wind...
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>> Yeah. >> But
you can't see it. Yeah.
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>> Right. But it's
tangible when it happens.
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>> Absolutely. >> Mm-hmm,
mm-hmm. >> So we're talking
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about something intangible. >>
No, very tangible. >> It sort of
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sounds intangible to say "born
again." >> Yes. >> That sounds
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intangible. >> Yeah. >> But
Jesus is trying to explain,
"Actually, it's very
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real." >> It's very real, yeah.
>> And He uses that metaphor of
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the wind. >> Mm-hmm. >>
Comparing to the Holy Spirit.
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>> Mm-hmm. >> So, basically, you
know, what Jesus is saying is,
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"You know, you can't make that
click or that new birth thing
happen on your own.
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It requires the Holy Spirit."
>> Mm-hmm. >> "And He works like
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the wind. And when He does his
work, you can tell something's
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changed." >> Mm. >> Again, I
keep coming back to your word,
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"chemistry." All of a
sudden, something's happened. >>
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Happened, mm-hmm. >> You know?
>> Yeah. >> And so then what
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Nicodemus says next is sort of
like his third question to
Jesus. He says, "Well, how can
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those things be?"
>> Mm-hmm. >> Mm-hmm.
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>> And I'm thinking what
Nicodemus is saying is, "I have
been playing church all
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my life." >>
Right, right. >> Mm-hmm.
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>> "And you just described
something that sounds very
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attractive. You're talking about
a deeper experience than I have
yet had, and I'd like to know,
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"How could that happen?"
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And you said it had be a
Holy Spirit thing, but is there
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anything, humanly speaking, that
I could do that would, like,
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avail me, make me available to
the Holy Spirit so that he could
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blow through and make the change
that I so desperately would like
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to have?" Because,
you know what, going to
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church without that... >> Yes.
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>> Mm-hmm. >> When I
was with that girl --
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Back to that girl.
When I was with that girl...
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>> Mm-hmm. >>
...and there was no click,
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I'm thinking, as I'm escorting
her back to the dormitory, that,
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at the dorm entrance, are gonna
be couples who are gonna be
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kissing and hugging and being
all cozy and affectionate, and
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that concept just
repulsed me with the girl.
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>> Yeah. >> I'm
thinking, "Yuck!"
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[ Laughter ] "I
don't want to do that with
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her," you know? >> Yeah, yeah.
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>> There's no
attraction. There's no heart.
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So, you know. And
Jesus is saying, "You got
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to have the click
before it's attraction."
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The Bible isn't attractive other
than information and knowledge."
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>> Yes. >> Mm-hmm.
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>> Until after
you've had the click.
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And so when he said, "Is there
anything, humanly speaking, I
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could do?" Jesus
tells him a story -- you
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probably remember this story.
>> So, the story, he says, "Just
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as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, so the son of
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man must be lifted up so that
whoever looks at him is going to
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live, is going to
experience that click."
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>> Yeah, that's the answer
he gives when Nicodemus says,
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"Humanly speaking, is
there anything I can do..."
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>> I can do... >>
"...that would make the
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Holy Spirit's work
happen more quickly in my life?"
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>> Right. >> I think
it's actually a very,
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very important question.
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And the reason I think so is
that, until you've had the new
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birth.... >> Yes. >>
Nothing else matters. >> Right.
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>> I mean, why would you want to
have a seminar on how to be a
Christian witness if you've
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never been born
yet? >> Yeah. >> Correct.
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Why would you give people a
seminar on discovering their
spiritual gifts if they've never
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been born yet? >> Yes.
>> Why would you give them a
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seminar on financial principles
for stewardship based on
scripture if you haven't been
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born yet? >> Yeah. >>
It's kind of like being
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born is the starting point
for everything else. >> Yes.
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>> So when Nicodemus says,
"So how can I get to that..." >>
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Yes. >> I think it's huge that
Jesus said, "Well, there is one
thing, now that you mention
00:09:09.31\00:09:13.95
it..." >> Yeah. >> "...that you
could do that would make this
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thing happen more quickly. And
then, as you just mentioned, he
tells him that snake story.
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It's found in Numbers 21. >> So,
in that story, you have these
people going into a
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situation where they're getting
poisoned by snakes. >> Yeah.
00:09:26.23\00:09:30.20
>> And so they're they're dying.
>> Does that mean bitten? >>
Bitten by snakes, dying,
00:09:30.20\00:09:35.50
and Moses is trying to get help
for them. He asks God, "What can
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I do?" and God says, "I want you
to make a bronze snake, put it
on a pole, put it up, and tell
00:09:40.31\00:09:46.01
the people -- You look at
the bronze snake, you got it.
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You're saved. The snake bite
poisoning will not hurt you."
00:09:49.92\00:09:54.59
I can imagine there are people
there probably that are like,
"How does that work?"
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>> "Really?" >> "Really?"
Like, "Why would I look?"
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>> Yeah. It's crazy. >> You
know? And maybe you feel guilty.
00:10:00.86\00:10:03.83
Maybe you were enticing the
snakes. >> Yeah, what if you
00:10:03.83\00:10:07.97
were playing with the snakes,
showing people you could hold
one and not get bit?
00:10:07.97\00:10:12.91
>> Yeah. And then you get -- So
how would it help me to look at
a bronze snake, and, you
00:10:12.91\00:10:18.58
know, and if you don't look,
you're not going to experience
00:10:18.58\00:10:21.92
it. But everyone who looked at
that bronze snake on a pole...
00:10:21.92\00:10:27.02
>> Everyone. >> ...was
healed. >> That's right, without
00:10:27.02\00:10:29.39
exception. >> Yeah. >> And so if
you make that -- If you kind of
00:10:29.39\00:10:33.46
go there, like you just did....
>> Yes. >> And in conjunction
00:10:33.46\00:10:37.47
with Jesus telling this story,
what he's really saying -- and,
of course, what's the snake on a
00:10:37.47\00:10:42.50
cross lifted up above the people
represent? >> Right. Jesus.
00:10:42.50\00:10:45.77
>> Obviously, right? >> He bears
our sins. >> And he's on the
00:10:45.77\00:10:49.28
cross and he's saying -- So what
Jesus is really saying to
Nicodemus is, "The one thing
00:10:49.28\00:10:52.51
you can do, humanly speaking..."
>> Yeah. >> "...is look in my
00:10:52.51\00:10:55.58
direction. Look in the direction
of the uplifted savior..." >>
00:10:55.58\00:10:58.09
Yes. >> "...with a prayer that
will take you to the newer level
that you want to get to,
00:10:58.09\00:11:01.59
take you to that deeper
experience." Because those
00:11:01.59\00:11:04.56
people in Numbers 21 -- It's
very clear in Numbers 21 there
was no condition for
00:11:04.56\00:11:08.43
healing other than looking. >>
Looking. >> No condition, zero.
00:11:08.43\00:11:12.13
>> Mm-hmm. >> Didn't say, "Now,
this works if you have faith.
00:11:12.13\00:11:14.64
You need to have faith in God
and trust in when you look, or
it won't work for you."
00:11:14.64\00:11:17.44
>> Yes. >> If it doesn't work
for you, it's because you didn't
00:11:17.44\00:11:19.84
believe it would work. >> Right.
>> No, it doesn't say that.
00:11:19.84\00:11:21.81
>> No. >> Mm-hmm. >>
Anybody who looked --
00:11:21.81\00:11:23.55
And, like you said, "What
if you've been playing with
00:11:23.55\00:11:26.01
snakes?" No conditions. "What
if I've been messing with the
00:11:26.01\00:11:29.18
devil? What if I've been living
a life in rebellion against God,
and I'm supposed to reap the law
00:11:29.18\00:11:33.59
of the harvest?" "You
reap what you sow," you know?"
00:11:33.59\00:11:36.16
No conditions. >> So
whoever looks is going to live.
00:11:36.16\00:11:40.10
>> There's life in a
look at Jesus. >> Mm-hmm.
00:11:40.10\00:11:43.63
>> Yeah. >> That's a
beautiful, beautiful message.
00:11:43.63\00:11:46.84
>> We're gonna go to a song
right now. We're gonna take a
00:11:46.84\00:11:50.67
bit of a break and listen to a
song. The song is "Be Thou My
Vision." >> Ah, look His
00:11:50.67\00:11:56.21
direction. >> Look His
direction. And, as Jesus said in
John 3:3, "You can't even see."
00:11:56.21\00:12:01.02
So we're blind unless He becomes
our vision. So let's listen to
00:12:01.02\00:12:05.62
that song. >> Good song.
00:12:05.62\00:12:06.86
¤¤ ¤¤ >> ¤ Be Thou my Vision
00:12:08.76\00:12:24.24
¤ O Lord of my heart ¤ Naught be
all else to me ¤ save that Thou
00:12:24.24\00:12:41.69
art ¤ Thou my best Thought ¤
by day or by night ¤ Waking or
00:12:41.69\00:12:57.44
sleeping ¤ Thy
presence my light ¤¤ ¤¤
00:12:57.44\00:13:23.16
¤¤ ¤¤ ¤¤
00:13:23.16\00:13:49.62
¤¤ ¤ High King of
Heaven when victory won ¤
00:13:49.62\00:14:08.94
¤ May I reach Heaven's joys ¤
O bright Heaven's Sun ¤ Heart of
00:14:08.94\00:14:24.06
my own heart ¤ whatever befall ¤
Still be my Vision ¤ O Ruler of
00:14:24.06\00:14:40.68
all ¤¤ ¤¤
00:14:40.68\00:14:56.69
>> "Be Thou My Vision." Those
are words to more than just a
00:14:58.59\00:15:03.47
song. Those are the words of the
prayer, and that prayer is that
we would see Jesus.
00:15:03.47\00:15:09.10
>> Mm-hmm. >> That we would
see Jesus. Yeah, that puts me in
00:15:09.10\00:15:13.01
mind, actually, of something
that Jesus said in Matthew 13.
00:15:13.01\00:15:18.08
He said, "...seeing they don't
see, and hearing they don't
00:15:18.11\00:15:21.88
hear..." So it's
possible to actually
00:15:21.88\00:15:25.92
not get it, you know?
00:15:25.92\00:15:27.99
>> Mm-hmm. >> For example, have
you ever thought about how hard
00:15:28.62\00:15:32.66
it would be to describe the
color red to somebody who is
born blind? Or let's saying try
00:15:32.66\00:15:37.77
to describe the color blue to
someone who's been born blind.
>> Mm, that would be really
00:15:37.77\00:15:42.07
difficult. I mean, how do you
do that? It's not the same as
00:15:42.07\00:15:46.44
yellow, and red -- You're
talking about blue? >> Yes.
00:15:46.44\00:15:49.84
If I was you, Mike -- If I was
trying to describe blue, I'd
say, "It's my wife's
00:15:49.84\00:15:53.55
eyes." >> That's right. >> Yeah.
00:15:53.55\00:15:55.35
>> That's what I'd say. >> Yeah.
>> But if that can't see...
00:15:55.35\00:15:58.69
>> But if that can't see her
eyes, I'm sorry for them, yeah.
00:15:58.69\00:16:03.49
[ Laughter ] No, but the point,
I guess, we're trying to make is
that you can't describe color to
00:16:03.49\00:16:07.86
someone who's born
blind. >> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm.
00:16:07.86\00:16:09.96
>> Because there's no place
in their head to grab onto that,
00:16:09.96\00:16:13.84
there's no handle. >> Yeah,
like, Jesus says, "Seeing they
can't see." >> Exactly, in
00:16:13.84\00:16:17.64
Matthew 13. >> Yeah. >> "Seeing
they can't see, hearing they
00:16:17.64\00:16:20.54
can't hear." >> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm.
>> And it doesn't matter.
00:16:20.54\00:16:22.88
>> Yeah. >> It's
impossible. >> It's impossible.
00:16:22.88\00:16:25.45
>> I think -- Is it their
fault that they can't see?
00:16:25.45\00:16:28.15
>> No, not at all. Not at all. I
mean, if I can't see something,
00:16:28.15\00:16:32.05
I'm born blind -- I mean, I've
met blind people, I've worked
with blind people, I've had some
00:16:32.05\00:16:36.39
good friends who are blind
people, and... I mean, is it
their fault? >> Of course not.
00:16:36.39\00:16:39.39
>> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm.
>> So if I can't see, you
00:16:39.39\00:16:41.73
know... >> Spiritually speaking.
>> ...spiritually speaking,
00:16:41.73\00:16:45.10
then I could pretend I see.
[ Laughter ] You know, everyone
00:16:45.10\00:16:51.04
else sees it. So do you see that
boat? "Yeah, I see the boat,"
right? You know, it's right out
00:16:51.04\00:16:55.88
there, over on the sea, right?
>> In other words, you could
play along with people who are
00:16:55.88\00:17:00.42
spiritually dialed in with
Jesus and have that experience.
00:17:00.42\00:17:03.65
You could kind of try and bluff.
>> Yes. >> Like you have it.
00:17:03.65\00:17:07.06
>> Yeah. >> But, in your heart
of hearts, you know, and, of
00:17:07.06\00:17:10.19
course, God knows, too...
>> Yes. >> ...that you're not
00:17:10.19\00:17:12.56
there. >> Yeah. >> You don't
have that deeper experience.
00:17:12.56\00:17:14.83
>> And so you fake it, and you
just never do make it. And so
it's like, "How do I get
00:17:14.83\00:17:19.57
that? How do I get that
conversion?" For yourself, Lee,
00:17:19.57\00:17:23.34
how did you get that experience?
>> Mm-hmm. >> Well, I --
00:17:23.34\00:17:25.97
In the previous episode that we
talked about, we talked about my
father getting there.
00:17:25.97\00:17:30.48
>> Yes. >> And how, for
him, it was a slower process.
00:17:30.48\00:17:33.48
We talked about this three legs
of the stool -- the bible study,
00:17:33.48\00:17:37.52
prayer, and share. In Bible
study, they get to know Jesus,
00:17:37.52\00:17:40.62
prayer to communicate with him
as friend, and then sharing with
others, and my dad --
00:17:40.62\00:17:44.63
He started doing that, and this
is old stuff in the previous
episode, but he started doing
00:17:44.63\00:17:49.26
that with a prayer that
Jesus would take him to a deeper
00:17:49.26\00:17:52.93
experience. >> Mm-hmm. >> And
it didn't happen quickly. >> Mm.
00:17:52.93\00:17:55.80
>> But he said he white-knuckled
his way to the click, which is
another way of saying, "I hung
00:17:55.80\00:18:01.18
on for dear life, and I kept
working those three legs, and,
00:18:01.18\00:18:05.48
eventually..." >> Yeah. >>
...the promise of Jesus in John
3, that "If you will
00:18:05.48\00:18:09.28
lift me up, I will draw
you in..." happened for him. >>
00:18:09.28\00:18:12.75
Yeah. >> And that happened
slowly. For me, it happened a
little differently.
00:18:12.75\00:18:15.46
>> Mm-hmm. >> It was, um
-- I was a preacher's kid,
00:18:15.46\00:18:19.36
obviously, and I had grown up --
Now, I'm a fourth- or
fifth-generation Christian
00:18:19.36\00:18:24.70
household. >> Mm-hmm.
>> But it's boring, boring,
00:18:24.70\00:18:28.00
boring to me. >>
Mm. >> I'm clickless.
00:18:28.00\00:18:31.17
And I go to church -- I go
to the Youth Department of our
00:18:31.17\00:18:35.41
church just so I can hang
out with my friends and have
00:18:35.41\00:18:39.31
doughnuts. Like, who wouldn't
want to go have free doughnuts?
00:18:39.31\00:18:41.52
>> Exactly. >> They're as good
as your Tim Horton doughnuts. >>
00:18:41.52\00:18:43.75
Yeah. >> Good stuff. And then --
But, oh! And the other thing was
00:18:43.75\00:18:49.62
that I went to parochial
schools, church schools. >> Mm.
00:18:49.62\00:18:52.26
>> And I took religion classes,
and I would get A's in religion
00:18:52.26\00:18:56.80
class. But it didn't really mean
anything because I didn't have
00:18:56.80\00:19:01.54
the click. >> Mm-hmm. >> And so,
for me, it's just information.
00:19:01.54\00:19:03.54
>> On the surface. >> Boring,
boring, boring. >> Yeah, and not
00:19:03.54\00:19:06.24
even on the surface. I mean,
you just don't even want to --
00:19:06.24\00:19:08.08
>> I don't really give a rip.
>> Yeah. >> I'm just performing
00:19:08.08\00:19:10.85
because that's expected of me,
and I need to do a good job. >>
00:19:10.85\00:19:13.65
Yeah. >> So, yeah. And then one
Friday night, my girlfriend was
00:19:13.65\00:19:16.72
out of town for the weekend, and
I didn't know what to do, and I
thought, well, I'll go hang out
00:19:16.72\00:19:20.06
with some guy friends. >>
Mm-hmm. >> So I went down a
00:19:20.06\00:19:21.99
friend's house -- his name was
Chris -- knocked on his door,
and he said, "Hey, what's up?"
00:19:21.99\00:19:25.13
I said, "That's what I'm wanting
to know -- what's up? My
girlfriend's gone, and I
00:19:25.13\00:19:28.33
thought I'd come hang out with
you," and he said, "Great. I'm
going to a Bible study.
00:19:28.33\00:19:31.90
Come along." And my mouth
dropped open. I said, "No way,
00:19:31.90\00:19:35.74
you're not going to a Bible
study. You're going to a party,
so where's the party?"
00:19:35.74\00:19:40.01
[ Laughter ] He said, "I'm not
going to a party, I'm going to a
00:19:40.01\00:19:42.71
Bible study." Well, I couldn't
believe it, because, if you knew
00:19:42.71\00:19:45.35
Chris the way I knew Chris, you
would never expect him to be at
00:19:45.35\00:19:48.02
a Bible study. >> [ Chuckles ]
>> I said, "You and who else?"
He named off a bunch of other
00:19:48.02\00:19:53.22
people who were gonna be at the
"Bible study," and they were all
what you might call --
00:19:53.22\00:19:59.79
Back in my day, you might call
them the users and abusers, the
potheads, the freaks, the
00:19:59.79\00:20:06.40
dealers and the dopers...
Anyway. >> Not the kind of guys
00:20:06.40\00:20:09.97
who would be hanging out a
Bible study. >> Right, yeah.
00:20:09.97\00:20:12.27
A bunch of party animals, and
I'm not talking about
Republicans and Democrats, you
00:20:12.27\00:20:15.94
know, party animals. And so when
he tells me that's who's gonna
00:20:15.94\00:20:21.08
be at the party, I'm thinking,
there's -- I'd have to see that
00:20:21.08\00:20:25.49
to believe it. Now, I think it's
probably important to maybe do a
little time-out here and tell
00:20:25.49\00:20:31.19
you kind of a behind-the-scenes
story of how that actually
happened. >> Mm-hmm.
00:20:31.19\00:20:35.53
>> How that came to be, that
there would be a bunch of party
animals in a Bible study group.
00:20:35.53\00:20:39.43
>> Yeah. >> And how it happened
was, some weeks earlier, at a
00:20:39.43\00:20:43.57
party on a Friday night, when
they were all -- I guess I can
just use the word "wasted"...
00:20:43.57\00:20:48.81
>> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm. >>
They were in various states
00:20:48.81\00:20:52.15
of ruin and disorder, you know?
Mentally. One of them said,
00:20:52.15\00:21:00.09
"Hey, man..." [ Laughter ]
"Like, I was thinking, man...
00:21:00.09\00:21:05.49
What if there's really a God?
And what if, like, He wants to
connect with us, man?
00:21:05.49\00:21:11.87
And what if we missed out on the
whole gig because we were so,
like, turned off from church
00:21:11.87\00:21:17.34
that we had no interest in
connecting with him? Like, what
00:21:17.34\00:21:21.81
do you think about that, man?"
And, you know, in that state of
mind that they were in...
00:21:21.81\00:21:25.98
>> Yeah. >> They had to think
slowly, and so there was a long
00:21:25.98\00:21:30.35
period of quiet, you know, and
then someone said, "Oh, wow,
man..." [ Laughter ]
00:21:30.35\00:21:35.52
And someone else said,
"Major bummer, dude." [ Laughter
00:21:35.52\00:21:40.60
continues ] And finally, the
original guy goes, "Well, okay,
okay, okay. So what should we
00:21:40.60\00:21:44.43
do, man?" And then a guy --
These are all people who are,
like, stoned and wasted and, you
00:21:44.43\00:21:49.20
know, tripping and, you know,
inebriated, and whatnot. A guy
goes, "Maybe we could try
00:21:49.20\00:21:54.71
and experiment, man..." Like,
"What are you talking about?"
00:21:54.71\00:21:57.88
"Well, like, okay, I'm not
saying I'm kind of a Jesus freak
or nothing like that, so don't
00:21:57.88\00:22:03.08
go thinkin' I'm some kind of
goody-goody guy or nothing, but,
I'm just saying, we could maybe,
00:22:03.08\00:22:08.42
like, get our Bibles, man, and
we could say, 'God, if You're
out there -- and we're not even
00:22:08.42\00:22:13.66
saying we know You are or we
think You are -- but if You are,
we're gonna read about your kid,
00:22:13.66\00:22:18.97
Jesus, here, okay? And if You
want to connect with us, go for
00:22:18.97\00:22:23.17
it, man." And here's the
cool thing -- If he goes for it,
00:22:23.17\00:22:29.31
cool! >> Yeah. >> If he
doesn't... Equally cool, we're
00:22:29.31\00:22:33.08
off the hook! >> Yeah. >>
Because we can say, "We gave you
a chance, man, you didn't
00:22:33.08\00:22:35.88
run on it. So it's
like your problem, not ours.
00:22:35.88\00:22:37.69
We can blow you off, and we
don't have to worry about it,
00:22:37.69\00:22:40.06
you know? >> Mm-hmm. >> Yeah.
>> And so then they all go "Far
00:22:40.06\00:22:42.66
out, man!" [ Laughter ]
So the next Monday, at our
00:22:42.66\00:22:46.13
parochial church school, where
these guys all went to school...
00:22:46.13\00:22:51.27
>> Yeah. >> One of them went to
our religion teacher, our Bible
00:22:51.27\00:22:54.84
teacher. >> Mm-hmm. >> And they
said to him, "You know, we've
got this experiment
00:22:54.84\00:22:57.97
we want to try. Do you
know a place we could go do it?"
00:22:57.97\00:23:00.38
And God bless this man, he said,
"You can have my house." >> Wow.
00:23:00.38\00:23:04.61
>> He said, "My family and my
kids, we will stay in the back
00:23:04.61\00:23:07.32
room. You can have the living
room and the kitchen. You can
stay as long as you'd
00:23:07.32\00:23:10.35
like." He said, "I'll be in
the back room praying for you
00:23:10.35\00:23:13.09
because I believe this is a
really cool experiment, and I
believe God's gonna show up."
00:23:13.09\00:23:17.59
And so then they
started doing that.
00:23:17.63\00:23:19.26
Now, think back on the things
we were just talking about with
00:23:19.26\00:23:21.83
Nicodemus. >> Yes.
00:23:21.83\00:23:22.86
>> Jesus said, "Here's
the thing is you should do."
00:23:22.86\00:23:25.10
>> Just lift it up.
>> You look my way with a
00:23:25.10\00:23:27.10
prayer that something
deeper will happen," and the
00:23:27.10\00:23:29.34
Holy Spirit, wind
will blow through.
00:23:29.34\00:23:31.01
So these guys are doing the
very thing Jesus promised would
00:23:31.01\00:23:33.98
bring the click.
They don't know that.
00:23:33.98\00:23:36.04
They haven't read John
3, but they're doing it.
00:23:36.04\00:23:38.48
>> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm.
00:23:38.48\00:23:39.55
>> And exactly what --
He's as good as His word, Jesus
00:23:39.55\00:23:41.82
is. >> Yes.
00:23:41.82\00:23:42.52
>> And exactly what he
said would happen, happened.
00:23:42.52\00:23:44.85
They started
falling in love with Jesus.
00:23:44.85\00:23:47.22
They start reading these stories
about Jesus and going, "Whoa!"
00:23:47.22\00:23:50.93
And, all of a sudden, the
Holy Spirit wind's blowing
00:23:50.93\00:23:54.10
through their hearts and they're
getting this click, right?
00:23:54.10\00:23:57.57
>> Mm. >> Mm.
00:23:57.57\00:23:58.70
>> Okay. So that's
going on, that's going
00:23:58.70\00:24:01.37
on, and then, one night, at one
of their Bible studies, they --
00:24:01.37\00:24:05.07
they read that story about Jesus
and the Syrophoenician woman.
00:24:05.07\00:24:07.54
>> Yes. >> You
remember the one who had
00:24:07.54\00:24:09.21
the demon
possessed on her? >> Mm-hmm.
00:24:09.21\00:24:11.01
>> And she says, "Jesus,
you know, yo, would you fix my
00:24:11.01\00:24:13.35
daughter?" And
Jesus says, "Why should I
00:24:13.35\00:24:15.45
fix your daughter?
You're just a dog, and how
00:24:15.45\00:24:17.99
should I give the food that
was made for the children to the
00:24:17.99\00:24:21.19
dogs?" >> Mm-hmm.
00:24:21.19\00:24:22.12
>> Remember? And she said,
"Well, if you're gonna call me a
00:24:22.12\00:24:24.03
dog, that's okay with me,
but, like, dog gets crumbs."
00:24:24.03\00:24:25.79
>> Yes. >> And
then Jesus smiles and
00:24:25.79\00:24:27.50
says, "Your
daughter's okay." Okay, so...
00:24:27.50\00:24:31.53
There's a whole lot to that
story that would be fun to
unpack, but just --
00:24:31.57\00:24:35.10
The point here and why I'm
telling it is that that group
00:24:35.10\00:24:38.74
read that story... >> Yeah. >>
...and then one of them said, "I
don't understand this."
00:24:38.74\00:24:42.08
The girl was messing with the
devil, because you don't get
demon-possessed by accident."
00:24:42.08\00:24:45.91
>> Mm-hmm. >> And she
wasn't asking for help.
00:24:45.91\00:24:47.85
Her mom was. "So how is it that
Jesus fixed it for her when she
00:24:47.85\00:24:51.42
didn't even ask for help?" >>
Yeah. >> And someone else said,
00:24:51.42\00:24:53.69
"I think it's called
intercessory prayer." And then
there was real quick
00:24:53.69\00:24:56.52
question, like,
"Well, what's that?" >> Yeah.
00:24:56.52\00:24:58.63
>> And then someone said, "Well,
I think it's like, you know,
there's these good guys and
00:24:58.63\00:25:01.93
there's these bad guys, and the
good guys go to help, and the
bad guys say, "You can't because
00:25:01.93\00:25:05.37
they didn't pray." I
mean, they didn't ask for help.
00:25:05.37\00:25:08.14
And then the good guys -- that's
me, God -- says, "But we're here
because other people are
00:25:08.14\00:25:12.61
praying." So then they
said, "Whoa! We should try that
00:25:12.61\00:25:16.04
experiment!" >> Wow. >> "Let's
figure out who we can pray for
and see if that stuff
00:25:16.04\00:25:19.65
still works!" So they said,
"Well, okay, if we were gonna
00:25:19.65\00:25:23.79
see if it's gonna work, we'd
have to pick whoever we thought
was the least likely candidate
00:25:23.79\00:25:28.02
for being a Christian. So let's
pick a guy and a girl at our
school that seem the
00:25:28.02\00:25:31.49
least interested in spiritual
things, and then let's start
praying for them to get the
00:25:31.49\00:25:35.70
click." >> Mm. >> Wow.
00:25:35.70\00:25:36.97
>> "Let's start praying that
they will get connected with
Jesus, and it'll be a
00:25:36.97\00:25:40.07
heart-changing thing." And they
go, "Cool experiment! Who shall
00:25:40.07\00:25:44.04
we pray for?" And I don't
remember the name of the girl
they chose to pray for, but the
00:25:44.04\00:25:47.74
guy was me. >> Wow. >>
They said, "Let's pray for Lee
00:25:47.74\00:25:50.11
Venden. If he gets the click,
we're gonna know intercessory
00:25:50.11\00:25:53.15
prayer worked." >> They thought
you were really lost. >> They
thought I was a hard
00:25:53.15\00:25:55.92
case. >> Yeah. So,
now, back to my time --
00:25:55.92\00:25:57.82
that was the behind-the-scenes
thing. >> Yeah.
00:25:57.82\00:25:59.82
>> So, back to that -- So, I
went to Chris's house. Chris
says, "Come to the thing,"
00:25:59.82\00:26:04.09
I go to the thing because I want
to see party animals reading
Bibles, like, "Yeah, right."
00:26:04.09\00:26:08.90
>> Yeah. >> [ Chuckles ] >>
And I'm there, and, all of a
00:26:08.90\00:26:12.10
sudden, I'm spending time
looking at Jesus, even though I
hadn't planned on it, even
00:26:12.10\00:26:16.57
though I wasn't praying, and
my heart starts melting down. >>
00:26:16.57\00:26:20.28
Yeah. >> And they started having
a prayer thing, and I'm -- I'm
keeping my eyes open,
00:26:20.28\00:26:23.91
watching them pray, and I
start to cry. And then, all of a
00:26:23.91\00:26:27.78
sudden, the thing's over, and
I'm crying, and I'm trying to
keep from anybody knowing I'm
00:26:27.78\00:26:31.22
crying, and they say, "Hey,
what's -- Are you okay?' And I
said, "I don't know what's
00:26:31.22\00:26:34.26
going on," and then they said,
"We know what's going on. You
just got ambushed by Jesus."
00:26:34.26\00:26:38.56
>> Wow. >> And then explained to
me that Christianity's not about
00:26:38.56\00:26:41.56
what you do, it's about who you
know, and who you know's gonna
change what you do."
00:26:41.56\00:26:44.90
Oh, my word, I went home that
night, I read the entire Book of
Romans after midnight
00:26:44.90\00:26:49.37
that night, and I couldn't put
it down. The next morning, I'm
00:26:49.37\00:26:53.17
reading John. And my preacher
dad's getting ready to go to
00:26:53.17\00:26:57.05
church. He comes by, he sees me
reading my Bible, and he can't
00:26:57.05\00:27:01.52
believe it. >> Yeah. >>
I'm saying, "Dad! Did you know,
00:27:01.52\00:27:05.55
Christianity's all about being
friends with Jesus?" And he
said, "Isn't that cool?" And he
00:27:05.55\00:27:09.76
went off to church to preach.
I said, "I'm going! I'm going to
00:27:09.76\00:27:12.06
church!" And I went to church,
and they weren't even serving
doughnuts. It was first service.
00:27:12.06\00:27:15.60
[ Laughter ] And my dad's
preaching, and he starts talking
00:27:15.60\00:27:19.57
about how you can be friends
with Jesus, how it changes
everything, and I go, "Oh, my
00:27:19.57\00:27:23.07
word! I didn't know my dad was
such a cool preacher!" I just
told him about that, and
00:27:23.07\00:27:26.71
he does a whole sermon on it! [
Laughter ] But he hadn't changed
00:27:26.71\00:27:30.85
his sermon content, my heart had
changed. All of a sudden, I'm
seeing the color red.
00:27:30.85\00:27:34.98
>> Yeah. >> Mm-hmm. >>
And you thought that he was
00:27:34.98\00:27:38.19
actually stealing the sermon
you taught him that morning. >>
00:27:38.19\00:27:43.09
That's it. >> Yeah, but the
click was there, and you saw it.
00:27:43.09\00:27:46.66
Wow. >> It was a miracle.
>> Mm-hmm. >> Absolutely.
00:27:46.66\00:27:49.00
>> So it became a heart, a real
heart. >> It went to the heart,
00:27:49.00\00:27:52.33
yeah. >> It went to the heart.
>> Wow. >> And that's what I
00:27:52.33\00:27:55.37
want for everybody. >> Mm-hmm.
>> And I want that experience on
00:27:55.37\00:27:57.91
a daily basis. >>
Mm-hmm. >> Absolutely.
00:27:57.91\00:28:00.58
Well, thank you very much, Lee,
for sharing your story with us,
and let's just end with a word
00:28:00.58\00:28:05.55
of prayer. Let's just close
our eyes here. Father in Heaven,
00:28:05.55\00:28:10.02
thank You so much that You use
other people to prayer for us...
00:28:10.02\00:28:14.49
>> Mm-hmm. >> Mm-hmm. >> And You
speak to us through Your word,
and your Holy Spirit
00:28:14.49\00:28:19.09
changes our hearts when we
look to Jesus... >> Mm-hmm.
00:28:19.09\00:28:22.56
>> We thank You for hearing and
answering our prayers. In Jesus'
00:28:22.56\00:28:26.03
name... >> Amen. >> So, friends,
always remember the words of
00:28:26.03\00:28:31.61
Jesus. "It is written: 'Man
shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that proceeds
00:28:31.61\00:28:37.21
out of the mouth of God.'"
00:28:37.21\00:28:38.65
¤¤ ¤¤
00:28:39.75\00:28:53.23
¤¤
00:28:53.23\00:28:59.83