¤¤ >> Dear
friend, I, in fact, hope
00:00:08.50\00:00:19.01
that we are still friends after
we left you hanging last week on
00:00:19.01\00:00:22.85
this topic of the plurality and
oneness of God. Now, I'm joined
00:00:22.85\00:00:29.72
once again by Dr. John Peckham.
Dr. Peckham, thank you so much
for being here today.
00:00:29.72\00:00:33.76
>> Thank you, Chris. >> Now, Dr.
Peckham, before we get into our
00:00:33.76\00:00:38.00
topic -- and we've got a lot to
cover -- you've written a number
of books. Why don't you tell us
00:00:38.00\00:00:41.80
about a few of the books that
you've written and how someone
might be able to get those books
00:00:41.80\00:00:45.67
if they want to dive more deeply
into some of these topics that
you've written very extensively
00:00:45.67\00:00:51.15
on? >> Yeah. I've written a
book called "The Love of God: A
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Canonical Model," and that was
published by IVP Academic, and
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the easiest way to purchase
that is through Amazon. >> Okay.
00:00:56.42\00:01:00.32
>> Another book I've written is
"Canonical Theology: The
Biblical Canon, Sola Scriptura,
00:01:00.32\00:01:04.76
and Theological Method," and
that's showing that Scripture is
00:01:04.76\00:01:09.30
God's word. Why do we have the
books in the Bible that we have?
And how do we study the Bible to
00:01:09.30\00:01:13.50
do theology? And that book
is also available on Amazon.
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>> Well, Dr. Peckham, I know you
are a professor at the Andrews
University theological
00:01:16.81\00:01:21.91
seminary, so we're just glad
that you've taken the time to
00:01:21.91\00:01:24.91
spend with us. Now, in the last
program -- let's just take a
moment to review -- we talked
00:01:24.91\00:01:30.42
about the oneness and the
plurality of God. Now, as we
jump into the topic
00:01:30.42\00:01:34.59
today, maybe you can summarize
what we talked about the last
time so we can get right into
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the subject today. >> Yeah. We
saw last time that God is love
00:01:40.36\00:01:44.93
before there's any world, and
that involves a love
relationship, which means there
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must be plurality in God, and we
saw that John 17:24 teaches us
that there was a love
00:01:50.31\00:01:55.54
relationship between the Father
and the Son before there was any
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world. >> Yes. >> We saw basic
text on the Trinity in Matthew
28, that we are to baptize
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disciples in the name, singular,
of the Father, the Son, and the
Holy Spirit. We saw that basic
00:02:03.15\00:02:09.52
Trinitarian text. And then we
also saw that the Bible teaches
00:02:09.52\00:02:13.09
that there is one and only one
God in a number of texts, and
yet the Old Testament also
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speaks of God in terms of
plurality. "Let Us make man in
Our image," in Genesis 1.
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"The man has become like one of
Us," in Genesis 3. And today
we're gonna see some
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more texts that show us that
even though there's one and only
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one God... >> Yes. >> ...there
is plurality in God already
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revealed in the Old Testament.
>> And so let's go right then to
the Old Testament and talk more
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about what does the Bible --
and, again, laying the
foundation, and, you know, we've
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talked about it a number of
times on this show. Often, we
want to just go into
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the New Testament, but we have
to understand the New Testament
is written in the context and
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upon the pillars and the
foundation of the Old Testament.
So, let's talk a little bit more
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in the Old Testament about this
plurality of God. Where is a
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place we can start today? >>
Staying in Genesis, we'll go to
Genesis chapter 16.
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>> All right. So,
we're gonna go to Genesis 16.
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We've covered Genesis 1, the
very first part of the Bible,
Genesis 3, and now we're going
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to go to Genesis 16. And where
are we gonna read? >> Beginning
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in verse 7. >> Verse 7. >> And
the next few verses we're going
to read all use this
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language of the Angel of the
Lord, the Angel of Yahweh, which
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is a very significant expression
in the Old Testament. And we'll
see also some texts
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about the Angel of His Presence,
which is the same as the Angel
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of Yahweh. >> Okay. >> So,
beginning in Genesis 16:7, this
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is in the context of the story
of Abraham and his wife not
being able to bear children, and
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then Hagar bears a child for
Abraham, and Hagar is eventually
sent away from the camp.
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It's in that context that we
read these verses, Genesis 16,
beginning in verse 7.
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"Now the Angel of the Lord found
her by a spring of water in the
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wilderness." That is, he found
Hagar. "The Angel of the Lord
found her by the spring on the
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way to Shur." Verse 8 -- "And
He said, 'Hagar, Sarai's maid,
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where have you come from, and
where are you going?' She said,
'I am fleeing from the
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presence of my mistress Sarai.'
The Angel of the Lord said to
her, 'Return to your mistress,
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and submit yourself under
her hand.' Then the Angel of the
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Lord said to her, 'I will
multiply your descendants
exceedingly, so that they shall
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not be counted for multitude.'
And the Angel of the Lord said
to her: 'Behold, you are with
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child, and you shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
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because the Lord has heard your
affliction.'" And we drop down
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to verse 13. >> Okay. >> "Then
she called the name of the Lord
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who spoke to her,
You-Are-the-God-Who-Sees; for
she said, 'Have I also here seen
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Him who sees me?'" So the Angel
of the Lord speaks to her and
comforts her and says that God
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is going to make a nation out of
her son Ishmael. Even though he
wasn't the chosen son of the
00:05:02.83\00:05:07.70
Messianic line and of the
Covenant of Redemption, he's
still going to be with her and
00:05:07.70\00:05:13.01
with her descendants. And the
Angel of the Lord declares this
to her, and yet she says she has
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seen the one who sees her -- the
God of Heaven. So the Angel of
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the Lord in this passage is
Yahweh Himself. But this is not
the only passage like this.
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We can drop over to
Genesis 22... >> Right.
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>> ...and we can see the same
thing, where the Angel of the
00:05:31.53\00:05:35.30
Lord is actually Yahweh Himself
in some kind of physical form
that can be seen. Genesis 22:11
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-- and this is in the context of
Abraham being told to take his
son, Isaac, up onto the mountain
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and to give him over to the
Lord. Genesis 22:11 -- "But the
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Angel of the Lord called to him
from heaven and said, 'Abraham,
Abraham!' So he said, 'Here I
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am.' And then verse 12. "And He
said, 'Do not lay your hand on
the lad, or do anything
00:06:03.66\00:06:08.26
to him; for now I know that you
fear God, since you have not
withheld your son, your only
00:06:08.26\00:06:13.90
son, from Me.'" >> Yes.
>> So, the Angel of the Lord
00:06:13.90\00:06:19.31
calls, but then He says, "You've
not withheld your son from Me."
So the Angel of the Lord is God,
00:06:19.31\00:06:27.45
is Yahweh. We have other
texts. Genesis 32 -- we won't go
00:06:27.45\00:06:34.59
through and read that whole
passage, but in Genesis 32, you
have this idea of where Jacob is
00:06:34.59\00:06:40.26
wrestling with who the text just
calls "a man." But it's clear
00:06:40.26\00:06:46.33
from the passage that this is
not just a man. In fact, the
subtitle in my Bible just says,
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"Wrestling with God," because
this is not just a man. Now, we
know that not just from
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Genesis 32, although it's
implied in Genesis 32, but in
Hosea, if we go over to
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Hosea 12... >> Yes. >>
...verses 3 through 5, it
00:07:01.12\00:07:05.25
tells us who this person that
Jacob was wrestling with was
explicitly so we don't have to
00:07:05.25\00:07:12.83
guess. >> So, this is Jacob
wrestling with God over the
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issue of the blessing, over the
issue of his working as one of
God's people, and, as you said,
00:07:18.67\00:07:26.31
in the Book of Genesis there, in
Genesis 32, while the subtitle
in the Bible says, "Wrestling
00:07:26.31\00:07:30.88
with God," the text itself calls
him a man, but now Hosea's gonna
lay this out to us.
00:07:30.88\00:07:34.82
>> And it's a man with --
It's someone with supernatural
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abilities, right? Remember, he
touches him and he's injured. >>
00:07:38.65\00:07:41.09
Yes. >> Hosea 12:3-5. >> Okay.
>> This is talking about Jacob,
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and it's talking about the same
story that I encouraged the
viewers to read in Genesis.
00:07:45.23\00:07:48.90
"He took his brother by the heel
in the womb, and in his strength
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he struggled with God. Yes,
he struggled with the Angel and
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prevailed; He wept, and sought
favor from Him and found Him in
Bethel," which means "House of
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God," "and there He spoke to us
-- that is, the Lord God of
hosts. The Lord," Yahweh, "is
00:08:05.85\00:08:11.55
His memorable name." So, he
struggled with God. He struggled
00:08:11.55\00:08:15.79
with God. He struggled with the
angel. You see the same imagery
of the Angel of Yahweh...
00:08:15.79\00:08:20.10
>> Yes. >> ...who is God
Himself. We also see it in
00:08:20.10\00:08:25.50
Exodus 3 in the story of the
burning bush, where the Angel of
the Lord calls out to Moses and
00:08:25.50\00:08:31.21
then says, "I am that I am,"
and the Angel of the Lord is the
00:08:31.21\00:08:35.48
great I Am. Then if we go
over to Exodus 23... >> Okay.
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Turn back to the Pentateuch,
those books of Moses. Exodus 23.
00:08:41.22\00:08:45.15
>> Exodus 23:20-23. >> Okay.
>> And this is very significant
00:08:45.15\00:08:49.72
for where we're just about to go
in what I think is the clearest
text on the Trinity in the
00:08:49.72\00:08:54.36
Old Testament, which is in
Isaiah 63. But Exodus 23:20
00:08:54.36\00:08:59.07
tells us about this Angel of His
Presence, which is the same as
the Angel of the Lord we've been
00:08:59.07\00:09:03.14
seeing in other texts. Exodus
23, beginning in verse 20.
00:09:03.14\00:09:06.07
"Behold, I send an Angel before
you to keep you in the way and
to bring you into the place
00:09:06.07\00:09:10.51
which I have prepared. Beware of
Him and obey His voice; do not
00:09:10.51\00:09:15.55
provoke Him, for He will not
pardon your transgressions; for
My name is in Him."
00:09:15.55\00:09:19.95
>> Mm-hmm. >> "But if you indeed
obey His voice and do all that I
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speak, then I will be an enemy
to your enemies and an adversary
to your adversaries.
00:09:23.66\00:09:29.03
For My Angel will go before you
and bring you in to the Amorites
and the Hittites and the
00:09:29.03\00:09:34.84
Perizzites and the Canaanites
and the Hivites and the
Jebusites; and I will cut them
00:09:34.84\00:09:39.01
off. You shall not
bow down to their gods."
00:09:39.01\00:09:41.41
So you have this angel who
elsewhere in Exodus is referred
to as the Angel of His Presence.
00:09:41.41\00:09:46.08
>> Yes. >> And here Yahweh
says, "My name is in Him."
00:09:46.08\00:09:50.05
>> Yes. >> This is
the Angel of the Lord.
00:09:50.05\00:09:52.55
One more Angel of the Lord
text before we come back to that
00:09:52.55\00:09:57.23
imagery in Isaiah. We're gonna
go to the Book of Judges. Book
of Judges, chapter 13.
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Judges chapter 13. >> You know,
and I find it interesting, Dr.
00:10:03.83\00:10:09.30
Peckham, while we're turning to
Judges 13, that that passage
talks about the angel and being
00:10:09.30\00:10:14.31
obedient to that angel 'cause
that comes in the context of "do
not bow down to the idols of the
00:10:14.31\00:10:21.35
Perizzites, the Jebusites, and
the Canaanites," and so this
angel is clearly not just an
00:10:21.35\00:10:28.02
angelic being but, as you have
pointed out, this is God
Himself. >> That's right. That's
00:10:28.02\00:10:33.06
right. And the same thing
happens in Judges 13. Now, the
00:10:33.06\00:10:36.93
narrative that one could look
through begins in verse 13. I'm
just going to read verse 22.
00:10:36.93\00:10:40.87
>> Okay. >> But before we read
verse 22, we need to understand
00:10:40.87\00:10:43.91
that the Angel of the Lord, that
same expression -- the Angel of
the Lord comes and speaks to
00:10:43.91\00:10:48.88
Samson's father and tells him
about Samson and who Samson will
00:10:48.88\00:10:54.75
be. So, Samson's father and his
wife are met by this Angel of
the Lord, and then,
00:10:54.75\00:10:59.69
after this encounter in verse
"Manoah," Samson's father, "said
to his wife, 'We shall surely
00:10:59.69\00:11:05.59
die, because we have seen God!'"
So they know that the Angel of
the Lord, in fact, is
00:11:05.59\00:11:14.27
God. Now, with that in
the background -- and this is
00:11:14.27\00:11:17.47
understood by Christian scholars
across the board that this Angel
of the Lord is actually Yahweh.
00:11:17.47\00:11:23.38
In fact, many scholars believe,
and I think this is true, that
the Angel of the Lord just is
00:11:23.38\00:11:30.22
the preincarnate second person
of the Trinity. That is the one
00:11:30.22\00:11:34.26
whom we call Christ, Jesus of
Nazareth. >> Okay. >> Now, why
do they think that?
00:11:34.26\00:11:37.89
Let's go to Isaiah 63. >>
Sounds good. >> Isaiah 63.
00:11:37.89\00:11:41.76
>> And while we go to Isaiah 63,
just for a bit of clarification
for a viewer who may --
00:11:41.76\00:11:46.17
You've used this term "Yahweh" a
number of times. For the viewer
00:11:46.17\00:11:51.21
that may not be familiar with
that, what is that word? And I
know there are volumes
00:11:51.21\00:11:54.88
written on Yahweh, but what is
that word "Yahweh" and that name
"Yahweh" that you continue to
00:11:54.88\00:11:59.85
refer to? >> Yahweh is the
personal name of God in the Old
00:11:59.85\00:12:04.62
Testament. It is the name that
many scholars believe is just a
form of the phrase that God says
00:12:04.62\00:12:10.89
to Moses in Exodus 3, "I am
who I am," or "I am that I am."
00:12:10.89\00:12:15.53
"I am who I am." The "I Am"
-- that's the name "Yahweh."
00:12:15.53\00:12:18.73
And in many versions of the
Bible, when you see the word
"LORD" in all capital letters,
00:12:18.73\00:12:23.87
that is to show you that
the Hebrew word behind it is
00:12:23.87\00:12:27.88
"Yahweh." That is the personal
name of God, which is thought to
be so holy that in Judaism, it's
00:12:27.88\00:12:32.18
not even pronounced. They will
just say, "Adonai," which is
00:12:32.18\00:12:35.72
another word for "Lord," because
the name is too holy to
pronounce. So the Angel of
00:12:35.72\00:12:40.62
Yahweh is this Angel of the
Lord, who is actually Yahweh
Himself in the stories.
00:12:40.62\00:12:44.93
>> Okay. Thank you. >> So,
Isaiah 63, and we can begin in
00:12:44.93\00:12:51.13
verse 7. We're actually gonna
see in this passage all three
persons of the Trinity that are
00:12:51.13\00:12:56.44
even more clearly revealed in
the New Testament are referred
to in this passage in Isaiah 63.
00:12:56.44\00:13:00.41
>> Okay. >> So, Isaiah
63:7. "I will mention the
00:13:00.41\00:13:03.75
lovingkindnesses of the Lord" --
again, that's Yahweh -- "and the
praises of the Lord, according
00:13:03.75\00:13:09.05
to all that the Lord has
bestowed on us, and the great
goodness toward the house of
00:13:09.05\00:13:13.12
Israel, which He has bestowed on
them according to His mercies,
according to the multitude of
00:13:13.12\00:13:17.93
His lovingkindnesses. For
He said, 'Surely they are My
00:13:17.93\00:13:22.66
people, Children who will not
lie.' So He became their
Savior." Now, that's very
00:13:22.66\00:13:28.90
familiar language to a
Christian, but it gets even more
familiar. "In all their
00:13:28.90\00:13:32.87
affliction" -- verse 9. "In
all their affliction, He was
00:13:32.87\00:13:36.68
afflicted, and the Angel of His
Presence saved them; In His love
00:13:36.68\00:13:43.32
and in His pity He redeemed
them; And He bore them and
carried them all the days of
00:13:43.32\00:13:48.96
old." And then verse 10. "But
they rebelled and grieved His
00:13:48.96\00:13:56.23
Holy Spirit." >> Mm-hmm. >> So
you have a reference to Yahweh,
you have a reference to
00:13:56.23\00:14:00.24
the Angel of His Presence who
saved them, who redeemed them,
who was afflicted in their
00:14:00.24\00:14:05.67
afflictions and bore and carried
them. Who does that sound like?
00:14:05.67\00:14:09.81
>> It's Jesus. >> This is
just the imagery of Jesus, the
00:14:09.81\00:14:12.35
Messiah. And we've already seen
that the Angel of the Lord is
Yahweh, the Angel of His
00:14:12.35\00:14:16.99
Presence, so this is a divine
person who is the Savior, and
then you have an explicit
00:14:16.99\00:14:21.79
reference to His Holy Spirit
being grieved. And in the New
Testament, in Ephesians 4:30,
00:14:21.79\00:14:27.56
we're instructed not to grieve
the Holy Spirit. You can't
grieve a force. >> That's right.
00:14:27.56\00:14:31.17
>> You can't grieve the
wind. >> That's right. >> Right?
00:14:31.17\00:14:33.47
You can only grieve a person.
We'll talk much more about the
personality of the Holy Spirit
00:14:33.47\00:14:36.67
later. But all three are
there explicitly in the text.
00:14:36.67\00:14:40.71
>> Absolutely. >> Now, that's
not to say that everyone who
00:14:40.71\00:14:43.78
read Isaiah 63 at the time would
have understood all of that when
they first read it, but in the
00:14:43.78\00:14:48.28
light of further revelation,
it's there explicitly. >> And so
you've got this now,
00:14:48.28\00:14:53.05
and so this is actually
phenomenal. In the context of
00:14:53.05\00:14:57.79
the Old Testament, we are seeing
the oneness of God, clear. God
00:14:57.79\00:15:04.47
is one. >> Yes. >> Yet, in His
oneness, there is a plurality of
00:15:04.47\00:15:12.77
three persons -- Father, Son,
and Holy Spirit. So, we see this
coming out, yes, in some places,
00:15:12.77\00:15:22.92
being hinted to. Here in Isaiah
63, about as explicit as you can
00:15:22.92\00:15:27.02
be. >> Yes. >> But with that,
Dr. Peckham, we've seen these
Old Testament texts.
00:15:27.02\00:15:31.16
What about the New Testament?
Does the New Testament -- Do the
00:15:31.16\00:15:35.93
writers of the New Testament
take up this foundation and
really explore it even further?
00:15:35.93\00:15:40.47
>> Absolutely. There's a
number of different passages.
00:15:40.47\00:15:43.04
We're gonna start with the
passages that are sometimes
referred to as the Trinitarian
00:15:43.04\00:15:46.57
formulas. So, the first one
we'll go to is in 1 Corinthians
00:15:46.57\00:15:49.41
12. >> Okay. >> 1 Corinthians
12, beginning in verse 4.
00:15:49.41\00:15:54.52
>> One of the amazing things is
we go to 1 Corinthians, and,
obviously, written by the
00:15:54.52\00:15:58.52
apostle Paul. You know, the
Bible is 66 books written by 40
00:15:58.52\00:16:04.63
authors over the course of 1,500
years. And it is amazing that
we've just read from Moses,
00:16:04.63\00:16:10.40
we've just read from Isaiah,
we've just read from Hosea, all
different generations of time,
00:16:10.40\00:16:16.97
and we're seeing clear, distinct
oneness and unity in their
teaching. Now we're gonna come
00:16:16.97\00:16:23.55
to the apostle Paul in 1
Corinthians 12. What is Paul
gonna say about the
00:16:23.55\00:16:27.15
Trinity? >> 1 Corinthians
12, beginning with verse 4.
00:16:27.15\00:16:30.52
"There are diversities of gifts,
but the same Spirit. There are
00:16:30.52\00:16:36.66
differences of ministries, but
the same Lord. And there are
diversities of activities, but
00:16:36.66\00:16:42.13
it is the same God who works all
in all." Then it goes on to talk
about the manifestation of the
00:16:42.13\00:16:49.64
Spirit and unity and diversity
in the body and spiritual gifts.
But you have there the same
00:16:49.64\00:16:54.48
spirit, right? You have the
one God. You have the one Lord.
00:16:54.48\00:16:58.41
You have three of them there.
Even more explicitly, in the
second Book of Corinthians,
00:16:58.41\00:17:04.15
2 Corinthians...
chapter 13. >> Okay.
00:17:04.15\00:17:09.22
>> 2 Corinthians chapter 13.
Chapter 13, verse -- Chapter 13,
00:17:09.22\00:17:20.20
verse, uh... >> Are we gonna go
to verse 14, as Paul is signing
off? >> Yes, verse 14.
00:17:20.20\00:17:24.77
I was in 1 Corinthians.
>> Okay. >> [ Laughs ]
00:17:24.77\00:17:28.38
>> That often happens as we are
turning our Bibles and the pages
00:17:28.38\00:17:32.68
stick together. >> 2 Corinthians
13:14. "The grace of the Lord
Jesus Christ, and the love
00:17:32.68\00:17:37.69
of God, and the communion of
the Holy Spirit be with you all.
00:17:37.69\00:17:42.49
Amen." So you have the Lord
Jesus Christ, you have the love
of God, you have the
00:17:42.49\00:17:46.19
communion of the Holy Spirit.
Very explicit Trinitarian
00:17:46.19\00:17:49.96
formula. >> And what's
interesting to me about this is
-- and all Biblical writers,
00:17:49.96\00:17:57.51
obviously, equally inspire, but
it's very interesting. Paul, who
we kind of often refer
00:17:57.51\00:18:01.54
to as the greatest Christian to
ever live -- Before he was the
00:18:01.54\00:18:05.78
greatest Christian that ever
lived, Paul was a devout
Pharisee of Pharisees, teacher
00:18:05.78\00:18:12.45
of the law. He was a Jew
of Jews. >> Yes. >> And he's
00:18:12.45\00:18:17.43
clearly and explicitly teaching
the Trinity, the oneness, yet
the three distinct personalities
00:18:17.43\00:18:25.10
of God. >> Yeah. The arch
persecutor of Christians, who
has the most amazing
00:18:25.10\00:18:29.44
conversion... >> Yes. >>
...perhaps in history, yeah,
testifies to the Trinity.
00:18:29.44\00:18:34.04
>> What other texts can we
explore on understanding the
00:18:34.04\00:18:38.61
Trinity? >> Ephesians 4 has
another one of these Trinitarian
00:18:38.61\00:18:42.45
formulas. >> Okay. >> Ephesians
4:4-6. >> Okay. >> "There is one
00:18:42.45\00:18:49.52
body and one Spirit, just as you
were called in one hope of your
calling; one Lord, one faith,
00:18:49.52\00:18:56.43
one baptism; one God and Father
of all, who is above all, and
through all, and in you all."
00:18:56.43\00:19:03.81
So, one Spirit, one Lord, one
Father. Lord, in these texts, is
00:19:03.81\00:19:09.71
referring to the Son. In fact,
it's one of the favorite terms
00:19:09.71\00:19:14.98
for the Son throughout the New
Testament. This term "Lord,"
"Kyrios," is often referring to
00:19:14.98\00:19:20.36
Jesus. You have the one Spirit,
the one Lord, and the one
Father, and this is recognized
00:19:20.36\00:19:25.19
across the board as another
Trinitarian formula. Then if we
turn over to 1 Peter,
00:19:25.19\00:19:30.40
we find another of these
Trinitarian formulas. >> Okay.
00:19:30.40\00:19:35.07
>> 1 Peter chapter 1. >>
All right. >> 1 Peter 1:2.
00:19:35.07\00:19:42.04
And it refers to the pilgrims
who "elect according to the
foreknowledge of God the Father,
00:19:42.04\00:19:46.65
in sanctification of the Spirit,
for obedience and sprinkling of
the blood of Jesus Christ."
00:19:46.65\00:19:53.92
So, again, you have Father,
Christ, and Spirit. All three
00:19:53.92\00:19:59.43
are there. Now, lest one thinks
these are only in the epistles
of the New Testament, perhaps
00:19:59.43\00:20:04.47
the greatest Trinitarian formula
that we saw in the last program
is in Matthew 28:19,
00:20:04.47\00:20:09.20
the great commission... >> Yes.
>> ...where Jesus commands us to
00:20:09.20\00:20:12.37
baptize and make disciples in
the name of the Father and of
the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
00:20:12.37\00:20:18.58
So that there is a Father, Son,
and Spirit is explicit
throughout Scripture.
00:20:18.58\00:20:23.52
>> And this is very important.
You have Jesus. So, let's go
00:20:23.52\00:20:27.86
back to the beginning. You have
Moses writing down Trinity and
00:20:27.86\00:20:33.73
hinting at the Trinity. You have
Isaiah. You have Hosea. Jesus
comes on the scene,
00:20:33.73\00:20:40.54
the incarnate Christ --
the incarnate Son, rather, the
00:20:40.54\00:20:45.81
Christ. He teaches. >> Yes.
>> Peter, a disciple that was
00:20:45.81\00:20:50.48
very close to Jesus, teaches
this. Paul, converted from
00:20:50.48\00:20:55.88
Judaism to Christianity, teaches
this. >> Yes. >> And, you know,
00:20:55.88\00:21:00.26
it's kind of interesting, Dr.
Peckham. We see this, and we go
to the Book of Revelation, and
00:21:00.26\00:21:06.36
in the Book of Revelation, we
actually see what would seem to
be a counterfeit Trinity, which
00:21:06.36\00:21:15.00
would allude to the reality
because, really, the whole goal
of Satan is to counterfeit the
00:21:15.00\00:21:24.45
realities of Heaven. And so
let's -- We don't have a lot of
00:21:24.45\00:21:28.35
time to get really into this,
but let's talk about that
counterfeit Trinity in the Book
00:21:28.35\00:21:33.15
of Revelation. What do we
see there that Satan seems to be
00:21:33.15\00:21:37.56
trying to imitate? >> Yes. In
Revelation 13, you have exactly
what you refer to -- a
00:21:37.56\00:21:42.06
counterfeit Trinity. You have
the dragon, you have a beast
from the sea, and you have a
00:21:42.06\00:21:48.20
beast from the earth. So, you
have this dragon, and Satan is
behind this dragon. Then a beast
00:21:48.20\00:21:54.71
from the sea comes and makes an
image to the dragon, which is
similar language of Christ being
00:21:54.71\00:21:59.68
the image of God that we'll
see in a future program. >> Yes.
00:21:59.68\00:22:02.98
>> You have this beast from
the sea. If you were to read in
00:22:02.98\00:22:05.62
Revelation 13, it receives a
fatal wound... and appears to be
00:22:05.62\00:22:10.49
resurrected. This is just a
counterfeit of the Resurrection.
00:22:10.49\00:22:12.73
>> That's right. >> And then you
have the beast from the earth
that brings everyone to worship
00:22:12.73\00:22:17.33
the beast from the sea and,
ultimately, the dragon. So, the
00:22:17.33\00:22:20.54
counterfeit of the Trinity makes
little sense if there's no
Trinity. >> Yes, and it is very
00:22:20.54\00:22:23.64
interesting because when you see
the dragon, the dragon is trying
to achieve worship, and so it
00:22:23.64\00:22:28.64
has these essential characters
of the Father, as you've pointed
00:22:28.64\00:22:33.31
out. The sea, the sea beast, the
beast out of the sea being
wounded, then the land beast --
00:22:33.31\00:22:38.92
interesting -- brings fire
down from Heaven. >> Yes. Yes.
00:22:38.92\00:22:42.12
>> And we have the tongues of
fire of the Holy Spirit from
Acts, the Book of Acts.
00:22:42.12\00:22:46.86
So, why would Satan attempt to
counterfeit something that
wasn't a divine reality?
00:22:46.86\00:22:53.27
>> That's right. >> Now, in the
last few minutes that we have
00:22:53.27\00:22:57.41
together here for this show, and
it's hard to believe that we've
gone through so quickly, but how
00:22:57.41\00:23:02.21
do we really know? And we're
gonna spend a lot of time
talking about this,
00:23:02.21\00:23:05.48
breaking this down further, but
how do we really know the
Father, the Son, and the Spirit
00:23:05.48\00:23:10.52
are all divine and not the same
person? >> Right, and this is
00:23:10.52\00:23:16.66
the key question that we need to
look at a number of texts to see
that both things are taught --
00:23:16.66\00:23:21.03
that the Father is God, the Son
is God, and the Holy Spirit is
God, and yet the Father is not
00:23:21.03\00:23:29.44
the Son and the Son is not the
Spirit and the Spirit is not the
00:23:29.44\00:23:34.71
Father or the Son. If both of
those things are true -- if it's
true that the Father is God, the
00:23:34.71\00:23:39.01
Son is God, and the Holy Spirit
is God and yet the persons of
the Trinity are not the same
00:23:39.01\00:23:44.42
person, then you have the basic
Trinity doctrine. So, we will
see many texts that
00:23:44.42\00:23:48.76
teach that that's true -- that
all three persons are divine and
they're not the same person.
00:23:48.76\00:23:54.20
Now, one text that we can go to
for now which avoids one of the
misunderstandings of the Trinity
00:23:54.20\00:24:00.24
is in Matthew chapter 3 --
Matthew 3:16. And this is a
00:24:00.24\00:24:07.74
verse that tells us about the
baptism of Jesus. Matthew 3:16.
00:24:07.74\00:24:18.89
Matthew 3:16. And it says, "When
He had been baptized, Jesus came
up immediately from the water;
00:24:18.89\00:24:25.13
and behold, the heavens were
opened to Him, and He saw the
Spirit of God descending like a
00:24:25.13\00:24:29.80
dove and alighting upon Him. And
suddenly a voice came from
heaven, saying, 'This is My
00:24:29.80\00:24:36.00
beloved Son, in whom I am well
pleased.'" So, what do we have
00:24:36.00\00:24:41.18
again? We have a spirit that
descends on him like a dove. >>
00:24:41.18\00:24:44.05
Yes. >> You have the Son, who
is being baptized. That is Jesus
00:24:44.05\00:24:47.32
Christ. And you have the
Father's voice, saying, "This is
00:24:47.32\00:24:51.55
My beloved Son." So you have not
only the Trinity there, you have
the three different persons of
00:24:51.55\00:24:55.49
the Trinity acting
differently... >> Yes. >>
...which suggests that they
00:24:55.49\00:24:59.09
cannot be boiled down into a one
God who's not a distinct three
persons but actually the three
00:24:59.09\00:25:06.87
persons that are distinct
that are one God. >> And that's
00:25:06.87\00:25:11.94
interesting, and now let me ask
you, as we've kind of laid this
foundation, and we're gonna pick
00:25:11.94\00:25:16.98
up more, but as we conclude in
our last minute, is there a text
that -- This is the beginning of
00:25:16.98\00:25:22.15
Jesus' ministry. Is there a text
at the end of Jesus' ministry --
00:25:22.15\00:25:25.49
in fact, at the end of his life
-- that may demonstrate that
there is more than just -- that
00:25:25.49\00:25:31.19
this plurality is existing, in,
like, Matthew 26? >> Yes,
Matthew 26:39, you have
00:25:31.19\00:25:37.00
this again that there's a
plurality because in the Garden
00:25:37.00\00:25:41.60
of Gethsemane, in Matthew 26:39,
this is what it says. "He went a
00:25:41.60\00:25:47.54
little farther and fell on His
face, and prayed, saying, 'O My
Father, if it is possible, let
00:25:47.54\00:25:54.12
this cup pass from Me;
nevertheless, not as I will, but
as You will.'" So you have the
00:25:54.12\00:25:59.75
person of the Son speaking
to the person of the Father. >>
00:25:59.75\00:26:02.76
Yes. >> Right? So there's
two distinct persons. >> That's
00:26:02.76\00:26:05.69
correct. >> And yet the Bible
teaches that God is one. So if
the Son is really God --
00:26:05.69\00:26:09.06
Nobody questions whether the
Father is really God. If the Son
00:26:09.06\00:26:13.74
is really God and there's only
one God, the Trinity doctrine
must be true. Right?
00:26:13.74\00:26:19.17
And also that the Spirit is God
that we also see, and there's
00:26:19.17\00:26:22.31
only one God. But here you have
the Father and the Son. The Son
00:26:22.31\00:26:25.25
is speaking to the Father. So
you can't conflate them into a
one God who just kind of
00:26:25.25\00:26:29.92
manifests Himself in three
modes. That's called "modalism."
00:26:29.92\00:26:33.59
We can talk about that a little
bit in the next program. >> Yes.
00:26:33.59\00:26:36.73
>> There is one God who is three
distinct persons, so much so
that the persons can speak to
00:26:36.73\00:26:43.90
one another. >> And with that,
we're going to end this program,
00:26:43.90\00:26:47.70
but we're gonna pick it up in
our next program. Dr. Peckham,
00:26:47.70\00:26:51.04
can you pray for us? >>
Yes, let's pray. Dear Father in
00:26:51.04\00:26:54.61
Heaven, we praise Your name. We
thank You so much that You have
revealed so much about
00:26:54.61\00:26:58.01
Yourself in Your Word. Some of
it is hard to understand, but we
00:26:58.01\00:27:02.12
thank You that You also lead us
by Your Spirit and give us
wisdom. We ask that you will
00:27:02.12\00:27:06.69
continue to be with us as we try
to understand You better and
follow you better, and we pray
00:27:06.69\00:27:10.43
these things in the name of
Your Son, Jesus Christ. Amen.
00:27:10.43\00:27:13.83
>> Amen. Dear friend, the
Biblical teaching of the Trinity
00:27:13.83\00:27:21.54
is often a difficult subject to
understand, yet when we read the
Bible, when we study the Bible,
00:27:21.54\00:27:27.88
and we see the oneness of God in
his three distinct persons of
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we
00:27:27.88\00:27:34.95
truly will understand His love.
To help you understand this
topic more fully, I want to
00:27:34.95\00:27:41.69
offer to you the book "The
Trinity," written by a friend of
mine, Doug Batchelor.
00:27:41.69\00:27:46.90
Here's the information you
need to receive today's offer.
00:27:46.90\00:27:50.13
>> To request
today's offer, just log on to
00:27:50.13\00:27:53.34
www.ItIsWrittenCanada.ca.
If you prefer, you may call
00:27:53.34\00:27:58.84
toll-free at 1-888-CALL-IIW.
And thank you for your prayer
00:27:58.84\00:28:04.55
requests and your generous
financial support. >> Dr.
Peckham, thank you so
00:28:04.55\00:28:09.35
much for joining us today on "It
Is Written Canada." >> Thank you
00:28:09.35\00:28:12.69
for having me, Chris. >> Dear
friend, I invite you to join us
again next week as we
00:28:12.69\00:28:17.69
delve further into understanding
the oneness and plurality of
00:28:17.69\00:28:23.13
God. Until then, remember -- "It
is written: 'Man shall not live
by bread alone, but by
00:28:23.13\00:28:29.37
every word that proceeds
from the mouth of God.'"
00:28:29.37\00:28:34.91
¤¤ ¤¤
00:28:34.91\00:28:51.19
¤¤
00:28:51.19\00:28:59.13