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>> The great question
of time is, "Who is God?
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Is there a God? And what is God
all about?" We've been exploring
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that question over the last
several weeks, asking about the
very character of God, the very
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essence of God. Society,
education has painted a picture.
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Is it possible that that picture
is not the correct picture?
We've gone to the Bible to see
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that the Bible paints a vastly
different picture than many
people understand about God's
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love. I'm thrilled to have with
me again Dr. John Peckham to
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talk about God's love. Thank you
so much, Dr. Peckham, for being
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here again. >> Thank you for
having me. >> Dr. Peckham is a
professor of Christian theology
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and philosophy at the seminary
at Andrews University. We are
thrilled that he has
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opened the Bible and helped us
understand this love of God.
Now, Dr. Peckham, we have had
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two shows together where we've
been really exploring this idea
of the love of God.
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And the two real major themes
that have come out of our study
thus far first -- God freely
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chooses to love. He
doesn't have to. He chooses to.
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And, in turn, then, gives us the
choice to respond to that love.
But, you know, I've been
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thinking a little bit. You know,
that passage that says, "I will
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have compassion on whom I will
have compassion. I will be
gracious to whom I will be
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gracious." And, Dr. Peckham,
when I think about that, that
sounds a little predetermined,
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like God is kind of, again,
picking and choosing, really,
and that while there are texts
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that say He loves everyone,
there seems to be some of these
texts that say He picks and
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chooses. What can we say about
that? How do we deal with that?
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>> Yeah, to deal with that
question well, we need to back
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up in Romans 9... >> Okay.
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>> ...and look at
a few texts there.
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In Romans 9, we're going to
begin right with verse 1. And I
just want to put a couple
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of principles on the table. I
believe that the Bible is God's
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word. It's revealed and inspired
by God, and, therefore, Biblical
authors are not contradicting
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themselves and are not
contradicting other texts in the
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Bible. So, when Paul is speaking
-- first of all, I'm assuming he
is not contradicting himself.
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So, if he says something
somewhere else that helps
clarify what he meant, I'm going
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to use that to understand. And
if he's drawing on an Old
Testament passage, I want to
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understand what that Old
Testament passage was really
about because his listeners are
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going to know he's alluding to
that, he's referring to that and
assuming that context in what
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he's saying. So, he can't
be saying something in Romans 9
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that is contradicting what
the Old Testament passage he's
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drawing from says. So, we're
going to see some of those
examples together. First, I want
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to see in Romans 9 what Paul is
actually talking about. You can
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quote text out of context and
get the wrong idea. But Romans
9:1-3 shows us what Paul's
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concern really is. Romans 9
through 11, they really all go
together. >> Romans chapter 9,
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10, 11 kind of all go together
to help this. And one of the
things I've said, as we begin
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here in Romans 9 that I think
it's an important principle,
it's a principle that we've
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instilled on this show, and that
is when we're studying
Scripture, we begin with those
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Scriptures that are clear. >>
Yes. >> And when we understand
clear, and those passages that
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we have read in 1 Peter 3, in 1
Timothy 2, that clearly say,
"God loves everyone."
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John 3:16 -- "God
loves everyone." >> Yes.
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>> Then we move to those texts
where we say, "That doesn't
sound like it's the same," and
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we unpack them. And what you're
saying here is what we're going
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to do is not unpack this based
on the opinion of others, but
we're going to unpack this in
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the word because the best
resource to explain the word of
God well, is the word of God
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itself. So, let's go right to
Romans 9, and I believe you said
we're going to go to verses 1 to
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3. >> That's right. >> Beginning
in verse 1, Paul writes, "I tell
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the truth in Christ. I am not
lying, my conscience also
bearing me witness in the
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Holy Spirit, that I have great
sorrow and continual grief in my
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heart. For I could wish that I
myself were accursed from Christ
for my brethren, my countrymen
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according to the flesh."
And then verse 4, "Who are
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Israelites." So, what is Paul
talking about? His concern for
his fellow Jews. And the context
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is, the message of the Gospel
going to the Gentiles, as well.
And part of the question is,
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"Has God abandoned his people,
Israel?" Is it fair of God to
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extend the Gospel to the
Gentiles when apparently some
Jewish people have rejected it?
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By no means, all -- I mean,
Jesus' disciples were Jews.
Jesus himself was a Jew.
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But some of the people who were
the chosen people have rejected
the Messiah, and now the Gospel
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is going to Gentiles. Someone
could raise the question --
that's what Paul is
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getting at in this entire
passage -- is God being unfair?
Has he given up those who He
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elected? That's the context.
Not is God choosing some to save
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and not to save, but is God
being fair to Israel in what
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he's doing here? >> Okay. And
so, this is the question that
Paul -- Paul, who is and
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was brought up a devout Jew,
a Pharisee among Pharisees. >>
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That's right. >> As a Pharisee,
he would have memorized the
Torah. This is someone who's
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coming from that context saying,
"Okay." So, God is who He says
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He is, yet there's this struggle
of is God arbitrarily leaving
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some behind? And so, let's get
into this and see what Paul is
trying to help us understand in
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this depth of the love of God.
>> Right. So, we're going to go
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to Romans 9:10. And before we
read that text, we need to see
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that Paul already uses another
example. He uses the example of
Abraham and Isaac being a child
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of the promise. And you might
say, as you continue reading,
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"Why is he bringing this up?"
Because if we know Genesis,
Isaac wasn't Abraham's only son.
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>> That's right. >> Before
Isaac, there was Ishmael with
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Hagar. And so, he's pointing out
to the Israelites, "Hey, look.
You were already chosen.
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You don't have a special status
just because you're Abraham's
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descendant. It's because of
God's covenant promise to you,"
which is setting the stage for
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him to say, "If I chose you when
you didn't deserve it, how can
you say I'm being unfair when I
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am also choosing the Gentiles
and expanding the Gospel?"
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Right? And this is the
consistent theme through these
next verses we're going to see.
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So, from the Isaac/Ishmael
parallel, he then goes to the
Jacob/Esau parallel, which is
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the same thing. You have Jacob
and Esau, but only one is child
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of the promise. And
that's what happens in verse 10.
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So, beginning in verse 10, Paul
writes, "And not only this, but
when Rebecca also had conceived
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by one man, even by our father
Isaac (for the children not yet
being born, not having done any
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good or evil, that the purpose
of God according to election
might stand, not of works but of
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Him who calls)." So, He's
elected Israel not because they
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deserved it, but because He
called them according to his
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purpose. >> Yes. >> "It was said
to her, 'The older shall serve
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the younger.' As it is written,
'Jacob I have loved, but Esau I
have hated.'" Now, this verse is
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very troubling to a lot of
people. The question is, What
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does it mean? We need to
distinguish two things here.
Actually, the quotation in
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verse 13 is not from Genesis. >>
Okay. >> It's not something that
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God declared at the time that He
chose Jacob or at the time that
he even said that was His
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decision. >> Okay. >>
This is something that was
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declared at the very tail end of
Judah's history, long after 515
BC, sometime after that,
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when Malachi was written. By
this time, the descendants of
Esau, the Edomites, have already
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perished. They don't
exist anymore. But the people of
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Judah, they still do exist. And
that's the context of what he
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says here. So, "Jacob have I
loved, but Esau have I hated" is
quoting from Malachi 1:2-3.
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So, let's go that together. >>
Malachi 1:2-3. >> Malachi 1:2-3.
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So, we need to remember now that
Malachi is written. It's at the
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end of the Old Testament canon
because chronologically it's
also towards the end of this
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history. The Edomites, who were
Esau's descendants, don't exist
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anymore. The descendants
of Jacob still do. And they're
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still children of the promise.
>> Yes. >> Which is the context.
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So, verse 2. "'I have
loved you,' says the Lord.
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'Yet you say, "In what way
have You loved us?" Was not Esau
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Jacob's brother?' says the Lord.
'Yet Jacob I have loved; But
Esau I have hated, and laid
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waste his mountains and his
heritage for the jackals of the
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wilderness.'" In other words,
Esau is Jacob's brother. His
descendants don't exist
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anymore. You still exist, and
you're complaining to me about
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"I haven't loved you." Now, some
people would say, "Well, is God
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being arbitrary? Why is He
choosing Israel and not the
Edomites?" Well, in context, the
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Edomites had done a lot of very
wicked things, and they had
actually also persecuted the
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people of Israel. But Israel
also had done things that it was
deserving to be cut
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off from the covenant. But God
sustains them, anyway, and He
does so not only for
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their own sake but for the sake
of all people because Israel was
the covenant lineage through
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whom the Messiah would come.
>> Yes. >> When the promise is
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given to Abraham in Genesis, it
was that they would be a
blessing to all nations.
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So, the special privileges He
affords Israel is not because He
only wants to save them.
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It's because through them, He
can save everyone, including the
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Gentiles, okay? But here we have
a statement that's not saying
that God is unilaterally
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choosing the Israelites to be
saved. What the point is, is
that God is bearing along with
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Israel, even though
they don't deserve it. Right?
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Which is why when He gives the
promise of the Gentiles, how can
you say God is being unfair...
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>> Yes. >> ...when the
only reason you're still here is
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because of God's grace. And now
you want to say He shouldn't
give grace to others.
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>> And I don't want to overstate
what you have just said, but
what is very clear, as we read
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Romans here, is that this
statement, "Jacob I have loved,
but Esau I have hated," God
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actually loved Jacob and Esau.
>> That's right. >> This
statement comes after
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the fact, where Esau has made
the choice to not respond to
that love that God freely gives,
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and Esau's response was, "I
really don't want to have
anything to do with you."
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The descendants of Esau, the
Edomites, also make that same
response, rebel against God,
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turn away from God, and in that
matter, it is after the fact,
where God is then saying...
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>> Yes, these are statements
of judgment. The love is the
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continuance of the covenant with
Israel, and the hatred is a
statement of the rejection of
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them. And so, this is a
statement of judgment after the
fact. The part that comes before
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is the part before -- "The older
shall serve the younger." That's
a quotation from Genesis.
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>> Yes. >> And that's the part
where God made a choice of who
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would be His covenant people for
His purposes in His infinite
wisdom. But not who would be
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saved -- who would be the
covenant line through whom all
would be saved. >> Right.
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>> So, that's the context here.
>> And I just want to be clear.
And we need to be careful.
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I don't want to get into
speculative theology, but in the
understanding of the entirety of
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the things that we have been
studying about the love of God,
had the Edomites responded in a
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positive fashion to this love of
God, then it is a different
statement then that Paul would
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have written here. And, again,
I'm being a little bit
speculative, but what we are
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saying is, is that the statement
of "Esau I have hated" is a
statement of judgment after the
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fact, not a statement of
predestination before Esau
actually made the decisions, and
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the Edomites made those
decisions. >> That's right.
00:13:39.18\00:13:41.92
And there are many other texts
that talk about the fact that
God loves the Edomites, as well,
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and they can be saved, and some
will be saved. So, even this
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statement isn't a judgment
against them as descendants of
Esau. It's a statement about the
00:13:50.83\00:13:54.63
lineage. They're not there
anymore, but Israel still is.
00:13:54.63\00:13:57.10
>> Yes. >> And the point is,
"Well, how can you say I haven't
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loved you?" >> Yes. >>
"Look at the love I've shown
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you." And this is what Paul
is reminding his audience of.
00:14:01.47\00:14:04.51
"First of all, there's Isaac and
Ishmael, and you're descendants
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of Isaac. He chose you. You're
descendants of Jacob. You're
00:14:08.38\00:14:11.08
still here. Now the Gospel is
going to the Gentiles, but God
hasn't abandoned you."
00:14:11.08\00:14:13.95
>> Yes. Absolutely. So,
let's continue on in this
00:14:13.95\00:14:16.85
text because I think there are
some other examples that Paul
gives us to help us understand
00:14:16.85\00:14:22.06
the nature of God's love.
>> That's right. So, verse 14.
00:14:22.06\00:14:25.86
"What shall we say then? Is
there unrighteousness with God?"
00:14:25.86\00:14:29.80
Certainly not! You see, that's
the question that Paul's asking
00:14:29.80\00:14:33.00
throughout. Is God being
unrighteous in the way He's
dealing with Israel and the
00:14:33.00\00:14:36.67
Gentiles? "For he says to
Moses," verse 15, "I will have
mercy on whomever I will have
00:14:36.67\00:14:40.61
mercy, and I will have
compassion on whomever I will
00:14:40.61\00:14:44.65
have compassion. So then it is
not of him who wills, nor of him
who runs, but of God who shows
00:14:44.65\00:14:49.82
mercy." Now, we saw in an
earlier program that this is
quoting from Exodus 33.
00:14:49.82\00:14:53.56
>> Yes. >> So, this serves
to remind Israel of perhaps the
00:14:53.56\00:14:56.66
lowest moment in their history,
very early in their history, one
of the lowest moments,
00:14:56.66\00:15:00.86
certainly, after the golden-calf
rebellion. The covenant has been
shattered. When Moses says, "Is
00:15:00.86\00:15:06.03
God still going to be the
covenant God?" and Moses asks
God to show him His glory, this
00:15:06.03\00:15:11.01
is what God says. >> That's
right. >> "I will show you my
00:15:11.01\00:15:14.18
goodness. I am the one that
grants compassion. I am the God
00:15:14.18\00:15:17.95
who shows mercy on whom I will."
Not arbitrarily. He's saying,
00:15:17.95\00:15:21.88
"You've forfeited the right to
this. I'm going to have grace
and compassion on my people,
00:15:21.88\00:15:26.99
Israel, anyway." And that's what
Paul's reminding them of here.
00:15:26.99\00:15:29.92
>> Yes. >> So, it's not of
works. They didn't deserve it.
00:15:29.92\00:15:32.46
>> That's right. >>
It's of God's mercy. >> Yes.
00:15:32.46\00:15:34.86
Yes. And so, that is just
phenomenal. So, it's again
00:15:34.86\00:15:39.57
emphasizing this point. God
chooses us. So, what else does
00:15:39.57\00:15:43.44
Romans unpack for us as we try
to understand this love of God
and the depth of that love?
00:15:43.44\00:15:48.48
>> That's right. So, the very
next section goes into this idea
00:15:48.48\00:15:53.38
of the hardening of Pharaoh's
heart. >> Okay. >> And this,
00:15:53.38\00:15:56.65
again, also can be confusing if
you don't look at it in the Old
Testament context. So, beginning
00:15:56.65\00:16:01.89
verse 17. "For the scripture
says to the Pharaoh, 'For this
very purpose I raised you up,
00:16:01.89\00:16:07.40
that I may show my power in you,
and that my name may be declared
00:16:07.40\00:16:11.37
in all the earth.' Therefore he
has mercy on whom He wills, and
whom He wills He hardens."
00:16:11.37\00:16:15.64
So, this is the question -- the
hardening of Pharaoh's heart. >>
00:16:15.64\00:16:19.74
Yes. >> Is God actually being
unfair to Pharaoh? Is He
determining Pharaoh's
00:16:19.74\00:16:23.98
will? Two things
we need to understand.
00:16:23.98\00:16:25.98
If we were to look -- and we
won't look at all of the
passages -- but if we were to go
00:16:25.98\00:16:30.09
to the Old Testament Exodus, you
would see that there are a
number of different kinds of
00:16:30.09\00:16:34.26
statements. First, God predicts
to Moses, I think in Exodus 4
00:16:34.26\00:16:38.66
and thereafter, when He's
telling Moses about going to
Pharaoh and telling him to
00:16:38.66\00:16:45.07
release his people, He tells
Moses, "I will harden Pharaoh's
heart." So, that's a prediction,
00:16:45.07\00:16:50.54
not a statement of what has
happened. >> Yes. >> Then, if
you keep reading the
00:16:50.54\00:16:53.58
narrative, the next thing that
comes up is Pharaoh's heart "was
00:16:53.58\00:16:57.21
hardened." >> Yes. >> Doesn't
say who hardened it. >> Yes.
00:16:57.21\00:16:59.75
>> Then, the next text that
comes up is Pharaoh hardened his
heart, and it says that many
00:16:59.75\00:17:05.65
times. >> Yes. >> And
only after that, later
00:17:05.65\00:17:08.99
does it say God hardened
Pharaoh's heart. >> Yes.
00:17:08.99\00:17:12.66
>> Now, if we're going to be
consistent in reading the Bible,
whatever way we interpret these
00:17:12.66\00:17:16.67
texts, we cannot say Pharaoh
hardened his own heart and God
didn't, or God hardened
00:17:16.67\00:17:22.74
Pharaoh's heart and Pharaoh
didn't harden his own heart
because the text says both of
00:17:22.74\00:17:25.51
them. >> Yes. >> The
sequence is important.
00:17:25.51\00:17:28.08
>> Yes. >> Pharaoh is
presented with a choice.
00:17:28.08\00:17:30.88
Pharaoh can make one of
two choices. The analogy that's
00:17:30.88\00:17:34.58
sometimes used in this regard is
the shining of the sun. >> Yes.
00:17:34.58\00:17:37.75
>> If you put a block of ice,
and you put mud there, and the
sun shines on both of them, what
00:17:37.75\00:17:44.46
happens? >> The ice will
melt, but the mud will harden.
00:17:44.46\00:17:48.63
>> The mud is going to harden
into clay, right? >> That's
00:17:48.63\00:17:51.00
right. >> And it's not the
action of the sun. It's the
00:17:51.00\00:17:54.44
response of the material. Now,
it's a bad analogy because these
are inanimate objects.
00:17:54.44\00:17:58.21
But when it comes to what God is
doing, Pharaoh could have
melted, as it were.
00:17:58.21\00:18:03.45
He could have responded
in faith. He could have said,
00:18:03.45\00:18:07.42
"Okay, I realize you're really
the God of the entire world, and
I'm going to let Israel go."
00:18:07.42\00:18:12.49
>> Yes. >> But he digs his heels
in, and in digging his heels in,
00:18:12.49\00:18:16.06
he makes a choice. Now, God also
can be said properly to harden
00:18:16.06\00:18:19.73
Pharaoh's heart, not because
he's controlling Pharaoh's will,
but because he's bringing about
00:18:19.73\00:18:24.03
circumstances that brings
Pharaoh to a point of decision,
not unlike with my 6-year-old
00:18:24.03\00:18:28.94
son. I can present a choice
to him, and he may dig in his
00:18:28.94\00:18:33.01
heels, or he might melt. And so,
that's the kind of hardening.
00:18:33.01\00:18:36.85
God is doing something, but He's
not determining Pharaoh's will.
But He's doing something that
00:18:36.85\00:18:40.92
contributes to the result of
Pharaoh's heart being hardened,
but Pharaoh hardens his own
00:18:40.92\00:18:44.85
heart in the context. So, this
is working together in a complex
way, but in a way that
00:18:44.85\00:18:48.86
doesn't take away Pharaoh's
freedom. >> And so, what we can
00:18:48.86\00:18:53.60
summarize that by saying is the
hardening of Pharaoh's heart was
not a predetermined destiny for
00:18:53.60\00:18:59.50
Pharaoh, but rather it was the
response that Pharaoh had to
God's love, and, in essence,
00:18:59.50\00:19:07.44
speaks to us as an individual
that we really have one of two
00:19:07.44\00:19:11.18
choices. We can either melt in
the presence of God's love and
respond to him in free love, or
00:19:11.18\00:19:16.85
we can harden our hearts by
making decisions to reject that
love and, in essence, reject
00:19:16.85\00:19:22.92
God. >> That's right. >>
Now, what else do we have
00:19:22.92\00:19:26.73
here in the book of Romans, as
we're unpacking and trying to
understand this love of God?
00:19:26.73\00:19:32.63
>> Yeah, so, right after that,
in verse 19 of Romans 9, Paul
says, "'You will say to me then,
00:19:32.63\00:19:37.61
"Why does he still find fault?
For who has resisted his will?"
But indeed, O, man, who are you
00:19:37.61\00:19:42.51
to reply against God? Will the
thing formed say to him who
formed it, "Why have you
00:19:42.51\00:19:46.68
made me like this?" Does not the
potter have power over the clay,
00:19:46.68\00:19:50.95
from the same lump to make one
vessel for honor and another for
00:19:50.95\00:19:55.72
dishonor?'" Well, stop right
there. First, we need to be
clear that Paul writes sometimes
00:19:55.72\00:20:00.53
in a way that is presenting
an objection to his view that he
00:20:00.53\00:20:04.30
then answers. >> Yes. >> Okay.
And here, many people quote
00:20:04.30\00:20:06.87
verse 19 and say, "Well, no one
has resisted God's will because
Paul just said that."
00:20:06.87\00:20:11.24
But Paul didn't assert that
in verse 19. What does he say?
00:20:11.24\00:20:14.61
"You will say to me then." >>
Yes. >> So, it's like you and I
00:20:14.61\00:20:17.55
are having a conversation. I say
to you, "Chris, you're going to
say to me now this."
00:20:17.55\00:20:21.05
>> Right. >> That's
not what I'm endorsing.
00:20:21.05\00:20:23.25
That's what I'm about
to respond to. >> Yes.
00:20:23.25\00:20:25.49
>> If Paul was endorsing that
statement, he would contradict
earlier verses we've seen, like
00:20:25.49\00:20:29.16
Luke 7:30, where the Pharisees
rejected God's will. >>
00:20:29.16\00:20:31.89
Absolutely. >> Who has resisted
His will? The Pharisees, for
one. And the text just says
00:20:31.89\00:20:35.33
that. He's saying, "You will say
to me who has resisted His
will?" So, Paul's going to
00:20:35.33\00:20:38.93
respond to this objection. And
then he says, "What about the
potter and the clay?
00:20:38.93\00:20:42.14
When God deals differently with
people, is God being unfair?"
Are you all wise that you can
00:20:42.14\00:20:46.57
say God should deal with this
people this way and that people
00:20:46.57\00:20:50.91
that way? Then you come to the
potter-and-the-clay analogy. And
people read that sometimes,
00:20:50.91\00:20:54.82
and they think, "Well, clay is
an object, and the potter
completely forms it, and
00:20:54.82\00:20:58.72
whatever the potter does with
it, that's what happens, right?"
And they think, "Well, this is
00:20:58.72\00:21:02.89
predestination." >> Yes.
>> But where is this imagery
00:21:02.89\00:21:05.03
coming from? Once again, Paul is
drawing from the Old Testament.
00:21:05.03\00:21:07.86
>> Yes. >> Many places,
but we'll go to Jeremiah 18
00:21:07.86\00:21:10.73
together. >> All right.
>> Jeremiah 18. >> The great
00:21:10.73\00:21:18.84
weeping prophet, Jeremiah. >>
That's right. That's right. The
weeping prophet that is
00:21:18.84\00:21:23.48
actually also in many ways
reflecting the compassion of
God, who's also lamenting over
00:21:23.48\00:21:28.65
his people... >> Yes. >>
...all throughout Jeremiah.
00:21:28.65\00:21:31.12
Jeremiah 18, we're going to
begin in verses 1 through 4
because that's where the
00:21:31.12\00:21:35.86
potter-and-the-clay imagery
comes from. >> Sounds good.
00:21:35.86\00:21:38.56
>> But we need to keep reading.
Jeremiah 18:1. "The word which
00:21:38.56\00:21:42.00
came to Jeremiah from the Lord,
saying, 'Arise and go down to
the potter's house, and there I
00:21:42.00\00:21:46.50
will cause you to hear My
words.' Then I went down to the
potter's house, and there he
00:21:46.50\00:21:50.27
was, making something at the
wheel. And the vessel that he
made of clay was marred in the
00:21:50.27\00:21:54.88
hand of the potter; so he made
it again into another vessel, as
it seemed good to the potter to
00:21:54.88\00:21:59.28
make." That's the
potter-and-the-clay imagery.
00:21:59.28\00:22:01.48
We see that there is a mar in
the clay, but it's not caused by
the potter, and the potter
00:22:01.48\00:22:06.32
reworks it into something else.
>> Absolutely. >> But if we keep
00:22:06.32\00:22:10.49
reading, we see that there is
not any determinism here,
because if we keep reading,
00:22:10.49\00:22:15.06
verse 5 says, "Then the word of
the Lord came to me, saying, 'O
house of Israel, can I not do
00:22:15.06\00:22:18.97
with you as this potter?' says
the Lord. 'Look, as the clay is
in the potter's hand, so are you
00:22:18.97\00:22:24.61
in My hand, O house of Israel!'"
If you stop reading right there,
you might think predestination.
00:22:24.61\00:22:28.38
>> Yes. >> But keep
reading just a little more.
00:22:28.38\00:22:30.31
>> Yes. >> Verse 7 -- "The
instant I speak concerning a
00:22:30.31\00:22:33.25
nation and concerning a kingdom,
to pluck up, to pull down, and
to destroy it, if that nation
00:22:33.25\00:22:38.05
against whom I have spoken turns
from its evil, I will relent of
the disaster that I thought to
00:22:38.05\00:22:43.63
bring upon it. And the instant
I speak concerning a nation and
00:22:43.63\00:22:46.86
concerning a kingdom, to build
and to plant it, if it does evil
in My sight so that it does not
00:22:46.86\00:22:51.23
obey My voice, then I will
relent concerning the good with
which I said I would benefit
00:22:51.23\00:22:57.14
it." "If you repent, My action
will change," which shows you
00:22:57.14\00:23:02.04
this is a give-and-take
relationship. God is the
sovereign potter, but he's also
00:23:02.04\00:23:07.28
relating to the free decisions
of humans. >> Yes. And that is
00:23:07.28\00:23:11.55
something we're going to dive
into more deeply as we continue
on. As we are kind of coming
00:23:11.55\00:23:17.43
down to our conclusion from this
reading of Romans 9, what else
can we draw that's going to
00:23:17.43\00:23:25.23
really help crystallize? That
passage is very clear, but
what's going to kind of bring us
00:23:25.23\00:23:29.80
into the conclusion and
crystallize what God is getting
00:23:29.80\00:23:33.68
at? >> Very clear that we need
to see to avoid any confusion is
if we keep going in Romans 9,
00:23:33.68\00:23:38.81
you would see there, where it
says in verse 22, "What if God,
wanting to show His wrath and to
00:23:38.81\00:23:44.09
make His power known, endured
with much long-suffering the
vessels of wrath prepared for
00:23:44.09\00:23:48.86
destruction, and that He might
make known the riches of His
glory on the vessels of mercy,
00:23:48.86\00:23:53.03
which He had prepared beforehand
for glory?" There again people
00:23:53.03\00:23:56.36
think that he's talking about
predestination -- vessels for
honor and vessels for dishonor.
00:23:56.36\00:24:01.14
But you see that Paul talks
about this somewhere else -- in
fact, more than one place.
00:24:01.14\00:24:04.74
But we'll just go to one. 2
Timothy 2:20-21. And you'll see
00:24:04.74\00:24:09.08
that unless Paul is
contradicting himself, this
language is not language of God
00:24:09.08\00:24:14.38
determining exactly what happens
but actually language of the way
God relates to the decisions of
00:24:14.38\00:24:19.39
humans. 2 Timothy 2, beginning
in verse 20. "But in a great
00:24:19.39\00:24:24.39
house there are not only vessels
of gold and silver, but also of
wood and clay, some for honor
00:24:24.39\00:24:29.76
and some for dishonor."
That sound familiar? >> Yes.
00:24:29.76\00:24:31.50
>> That's the same language from
Romans 9, and Paul wrote this
00:24:31.50\00:24:34.07
letter, too. "Therefore, if
anyone cleanses himself from the
latter, he will be a vessel for
00:24:34.07\00:24:40.38
honor, sanctified and useful for
the Master, prepared for every
00:24:40.38\00:24:45.08
good work. You see the condition
there. >> Absolutely. >> So, you
00:24:45.08\00:24:47.88
can be a vessel for honor if you
respond appropriately. >> And it
00:24:47.88\00:24:52.15
is about that love response, and
so we're seeing Romans 9 is
crystallizing absolutely God is
00:24:52.15\00:24:59.66
a God who freely loves everyone
and gives each of us the
opportunity for a response to
00:24:59.66\00:25:07.00
Him. >> That's right. >> As we
head into the last minute that
00:25:07.00\00:25:11.74
we have together here with our
program today, what are some
final thoughts or a final verse
00:25:11.74\00:25:16.91
that will really bring this all
together and help it settle in,
that God is one who freely
00:25:16.91\00:25:22.08
chooses to love us and we are
free to choose our response to
Him? >> Romans 10:8-9, and I
00:25:22.08\00:25:26.86
would encourage anyone watching
to also look at Romans 11:22-23,
which shows this conditionality
00:25:26.86\00:25:32.96
that God is working with.
But for our purposes now, Romans
00:25:32.96\00:25:37.23
10:8-9. Again, Paul says, "But
what does it say? The word is
00:25:37.23\00:25:42.97
near you, in your mouth and in
your heart (that is, the word of
faith which we preach) that if
00:25:42.97\00:25:48.91
you confess with your mouth the
Lord Jesus and believe in your
heart that God has raised Him
00:25:48.91\00:25:53.92
from the dead, you will be
saved." Now, there's no break
between Romans 9 and 10.
00:25:53.92\00:26:00.86
Romans 9 through 11
is all together. >> Yes.
00:26:00.86\00:26:03.86
>> And here Paul tells you
the condition. It's not if God
00:26:03.86\00:26:08.20
arbitrarily chooses to save you
or not. God is calling you. If
you believe, if you confess
00:26:08.20\00:26:13.03
with your mouth and believe
that Jesus is Lord, you will be
00:26:13.03\00:26:17.24
saved. That is the Gospel
of God's love. >> And what's so
00:26:17.24\00:26:21.24
powerful about that, because I
know of many people who hearing
things on TV, reading things on
00:26:21.24\00:26:28.92
the Internet, reading things in
social media have kind of thrown
up their hands and said, "What
00:26:28.92\00:26:34.29
does it matter? God has already
made the choice. What does it
00:26:34.29\00:26:38.46
even matter?" >> Yeah. >> But
Romans 10:8-9 clearly articulate
that it does matter
00:26:38.46\00:26:49.20
because each of us, every last
person on the Earth has the
opportunity to choose to accept
00:26:49.20\00:26:58.55
and receive the love of God.
>> That's right. >> That is an
00:26:58.55\00:27:02.68
amazing thing. Dr. Peckham,
thank you for helping us
understand that. Let's pray
00:27:02.68\00:27:07.12
together as we conclude this
program. Heavenly father, we are
awed by the love that You have
00:27:07.12\00:27:15.30
for us. It is not a love that is
arbitrary, but it is a love that
is direct to each and every
00:27:15.30\00:27:25.07
heart. And today it is my prayer
that not only would Dr. Peckham
00:27:25.07\00:27:31.21
and I respond to that love but
that everyone viewing, everyone
hearing this would respond to
00:27:31.21\00:27:37.92
that amazing love that you have
and choose today to be in a
relationship with You.
00:27:37.92\00:27:47.23
Lord, help us. We
pray in Jesus' name. Amen.
00:27:47.23\00:27:51.57
>> Amen. >> Dear friends, Romans
10:9 is a phenomenal promise
00:27:51.57\00:28:00.34
given to everyone. If you
believe, if you confess, you
will be saved -- no question
00:28:00.34\00:28:07.98
about it. God, out of His free
will to choose, is now giving
00:28:07.98\00:28:13.29
you the opportunity to respond.
Today, I want to offer you the
book "The Passion of Love."
00:28:13.29\00:28:20.00
It delves into that love that
God has for you. It will help
you in your journey
00:28:20.00\00:28:25.23
in following Him. Here's the
information you need to receive
00:28:25.23\00:28:31.11
today's offer. >> To request
today's offer, just log on to
00:28:31.11\00:28:34.01
www.ItIsWrittenCanada.ca.
If you prefer, you may call
00:28:34.01\00:28:39.05
toll free at 1-888-CALL-IIW.
And thank you for your prayer
00:28:39.05\00:28:45.45
requests and your generous
financial support. >> I want to
00:28:45.45\00:28:50.89
thank Dr. John Peckham so much
for joining me this week. Thank
you for helping us to dive
00:28:50.89\00:28:55.83
deep into the word of God. >>
Thank you, Chris. >> Dear
friend, Dr. Peckham will
00:28:55.83\00:29:02.84
be with us again next week, as
we probe that question, "What is
00:29:02.84\00:29:08.51
the love of God?" It's clear
that He loves everyone. And He
invites everyone to
00:29:08.51\00:29:14.15
respond. But what does that love
mean? What is the characteristic
00:29:14.15\00:29:19.92
of that love? I hope you were
blessed by the program today.
00:29:19.92\00:29:23.36
I invite you to join us again
next week. Until then, remember,
00:29:23.36\00:29:27.96
it is written: "Man shall not
live by bread alone, but by
every word that proceeds from
00:29:27.96\00:29:35.20
the mouth of God." い
00:29:35.20\00:29:42.18
い い
00:29:42.18\00:30:01.16
い い
00:30:01.16\00:30:18.95