IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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IIW-THE HOUSE ON THE ROCK #5
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>>Announcer: It has
stood the test of time.
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God's book, The Bible
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Still relevant in
today's complex world
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It Is Written
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Sharing messages of
hope around the world!
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CHRIS: My dear friends, have you
built a foundation that will
stand the test of time? Now, I'm
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not talking about your home's
foundation. I'm sure that your
home was built on a strong
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foundation. But I'm talking
about your spiritual life. Have
you built on a foundation that
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will withstand the trials of
everyday life? That
willwithstand the turmoil of the
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earth upon which we're living?
You know, for the past several
weeks, that's what we've been
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talking about: building strong
foundations. And the foundation
specifically we have spoken of
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time and time again is the
foundation of the sanctuary, its
centrality to the framework of
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having a personal relationship
with Jesus Christ. And the
individual who's been with me
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for the entire journey, helping
us to understand, is Pastor Karl
Tsatalbasidis. Pastor Karl, I
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want to welcome you back to It
Is Written Canada. PASTOR KARL:
It's good to be back
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again, Chris. CHRIS: You know,
Pastor Karl, you have spent 18
years in ministry as a pastor.
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Now you minister in the
classroom; you have taught at
the collegiate level. You are
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about to put the final periods,
final crossing of the t's on a
Ph.D. dissertation, so we'll be
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able to call you Dr. T. very
soon. We're looking forward to
that. And Pastor Karl, you, in
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your Ph.D. studies, have been
studying a lot about the
presence of God, which has led
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you to spend a lot of time
studying and really digging into
the sanctuary. Now, over the
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course of the last several
weeks, we have built a very
clear framework. There is a real
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sanctuary in heaven. That real
sanctuary in heaven is where God
is and where God is calling us
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to turn toward, not out of some
blind faith obedience, but
rather, to turn there because
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God desires to have a personal
relationship with us. And the
sanctuary is really all about
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that bridge or that integration
of heaven and earth. And we've
looked at that. If you have
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missed any of the programs,
friend, I want you to go to
www.youtube.com/IIWCanada.
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There, you can find the archives
of these programs, and you can
catch up and be current with
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this program today. But Pastor
Karl, where we left off is, I
had asked you the question,
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"What happens if we reject the
heavenly sanctuary? Can we still
be faithful to the scriptures?"
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Which, I know this sounds like a
very obvious question, but there
are a lot people out there that
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reject the reality of the
sanctuary and claim to be
faithful to the scriptures. Is
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that possible? PASTOR KARL:
We're going to turn to a story
in First Kings chapter 12
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that I think will really settle
the issue. And as we look into
that story, you're going to see
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that it's going to be difficult
to impossible in order to do
that. So why don't we take some
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time and look at First Kings
chapter 12 in order to try to
answer this question? And so
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your question really is, yes,
"Can we still hold to the
authority of the Bible if we
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reject the sanctuary?" So turn
with me to First Kings chapter
12, and we're going to begin at
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verse 25. Just a little bit of a
context here, Solomon, King
Solomon is now dead, and because
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of his sins, the kingdom has
been divided into two. You have
the southern kingdom, which is
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basically Judah, run by his son
Rehoboam, and then ten tribes
have been given to Jeroboam. And
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so we pick it up in verse 25,
and I'll go ahead and maybe read
verses 25 to the end of the
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chapter to verse 33, and then
we're kind of going to expound
on these as we go, as we seek to
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answer this question. CHRIS:
Now, Pastor Karl, just so people
are very, very clear
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where we're at in the whole
history of Israel, King David
had a son Solomon. King David
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has died. His son Solomon, who
we've talked about a number of
times, actually built the temple
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there in Jerusalem. King Solomon
goes through a very lengthy
experience. He returns to God
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before he dies. But at this
point, the kingdom has kind of
been left in a bit of apostasy,
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so to speak. He has a son
Rehoboam. Rehoboam does not
follow the counsel of the
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elders. And so Israel splits in
two: the southern kingdom, the
northern kingdom. The southern
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kingdom of Judah, which Rehoboam
is now king over, and then the
northern kingdom, the ten
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tribes, and their headquarters,
their capital is in Samaria. And
that is being governed by a king
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there, and that king is
Jeroboam. Just to be really
clear. And now we pick up the
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story in First Kings 12:25.
Okay, let's start right there.
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PASTOR KARL: And so the question
is, what really is the sin of
Jeroboam, and what does it have
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to do with the question that
we're seeking to answer here?
And the question is, "Can I just
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reject the sanctuary, and at the
same time, adhere to the
authority of God's Word?" Or
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maybe we can ask it in reverse:
"Can I adhere to the authority
of God's Word and reject the
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sanctuary?" Well, in verse 28,
even before that, in verse 27,
he's trying to find a way in
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order to gain the loyalties of
the people to himself. CHRIS:
Right. He's worried. And
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just so everyone is clear as you
were reading, you know, you had
there in verse 27, offerings and
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sacrifices made at the house of
the Lord. That'sreferring to the
temple. That's referring to the
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sanctuary. PASTOR KARL: Correct.
CHRIS: So he's greatly
concerned, because these tribes,
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the northern peoples of Israel,
three times a year, at the
feasts, are going to return to
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the sanctuary, return to the
temple, and he's quite worried
that when they go there, they're
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going to turn their back on him,
and he's going to be left kind
of holding an empty kingdom.
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PASTOR KARL: Like, "What am I
doing here?" CHRIS: What is he
doing there? So he's looking for
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a way of, "How do I win the
people? How do I keep the people
to myself?" PASTOR KARL: Mmhmm.
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CHRIS: And so then ? PASTOR
KARL: Yeah. So we pick it up in
verse. the Bible is pulling the
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curtain aside and helping
us to understand his thought
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processes. Then he plays the old
card, "This is for security
reasons. We need to preserve
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ourselves. Then they're going to
come and kill me." And there
was, like, an imminent threat
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that had to be turned around. So
there was some kind of threat
that was going on. And, just
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like some politician who will
say, "Never let a good crisis go
to waste," he thought, "Huh,
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this is a way, there is an
imminent crisis, so I'm going to
use this as a pretext in order
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to gain the loyalties of the
people to myself." And so here
it is in verse 28. What is the
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sin of Jeroboam,
ultimately? It says:
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PASTOR KARL: And I want to stop
right there. It says that he
took counsel. And the result of
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that counsel was making two
calves of gold. Now, very
simply, where did he not get his
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counsel from? CHRIS: Very
clearly, he's not getting his
counsel from scripture, because,
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first of all, we see a calf of
gold coming up in an earlier
time in the history of Israel,
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and I think you're probably
going to turn there and we're
going to talk about that. But
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secondly, the Ten Commandments
make it very clear that we don't
need to make images. We don't
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need to make an image. And the
sanctuary, which we've been
studying, has been clear that we
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don't need images to worship, to
come into connection with God;
we can worship God Himself.
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PASTOR KARL: Yes. And so he's
getting his counsel, but it's
very clear he's not getting it
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from the first five books of the
Bible, the Pentateuch. In fact,
if you turn with me to
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Deuteronomy chapter 4, we can
pick it up in verse 12 and read
a few verses there. And God had
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some specific counsel for them
about the dangers of what
Jeroboam was about to do.
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PASTOR KARL: And then it
continues to go on about the ill
effects about this kind of
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idolatry. So God reminds them
and says, "Look, you are not to
do this. You are not to confuse
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Me with the material creation,"
as you alluded to in the Ten
Commandments. So in First Kings
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12, when it says the king took
counsel, he got that counsel
from the surrounding nations,
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from the traditions and the
philosophies of the surrounding
nations. That began to replace
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the authority of God's Word at
that point. CHRIS: So Jeroboam
makes a very distinct departure
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from the Word of God, which
also, in turn, leads to a
departure from worship in the
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sanctuary. PASTOR KARL:
Absolutely. That's exactly the
logical flow. So he took
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counsel and made two calves of
gold and said unto them, "It's
too much for you to go to
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Jerusalem." As you alluded to
earlier, three times a year,
God's people would come to
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Jerusalem, and they would come
not just to the city, but
because God's presence was
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manifested there in the temple.
He would promise to meet His
people at that location and
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reveal Himself through the
service of the sanctuary there.
And so the rejection of God's
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Word then led to a rejection of
the sanctuary as the framework
for understanding - and we're
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going to flesh this out a little
bit now - for understanding the
nature of God, the nature of
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church leadership, and other
issues as well. This was really
the predominant sin. let me
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state it this way: obviously,
Jeroboam's sin had to do with
worship. I mean, there was a
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worship centre in Dan, there was
a worship centre in Bethel.
Obviously, it had to do with who
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was qualified to lead, as later
on, it said, you know, he
ordained priests that were not
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of the tribe of Levi. Those were
all things, obviously, it had to
do with the nature of God. But
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of the tribe of Levi. Those were
all things, obviously, it had to
do with the nature of God. But
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at the rock-bottom foundation,
is the rejection of God's Word,
the rejection of His Word. And
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with that, you cannot reject
God's Word and at the same time,
cling to the sanctuary, because
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when He rejected God's Word, the
with that, you cannot reject
God's Word and at the same time,
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sanctuary was completely out. It
lost its meaning, it lost its
cling to the sanctuary, because
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when He rejected God's Word, the
sanctuary was completely out. It
lost its meaning, it lost its
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ability to provide guidance and
interpretation to all of these
things. Now, 200 years later, if
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we can turn to Second Kings
chapter 17, the Assyrians are
taking over. They're just
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annihilating all the nations.
And they're coming to Israel.
And finally, the northern
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kingdom is completely just
annexed away. They're completely
dispersed within the Assyrian
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empire. And the writer in the
book of Kings here states the
cause of it all. And we pick it
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up in Second Kings chapter 17
and verse 20, PASTOR KARL: I
think that's significant. So
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this is 200 years later now, and
it's saying, "You know what the
cause of the fall is? That which
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Jeroboam instituted at the very
beginning when he set up the two
calves of gold that were really
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the result of him rejecting
God's Word." That was the major
problem. And the Bible called
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that a great sin. Now, all sin
is ultimately directed against
God, but there are some sins
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that are much larger in their
effects and in their magnitude
than others. When we reject
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God's Word and we reject the
sanctuary, we reject the lenses,
as we alluded to in a previous
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program, we reject the lenses
through which we should
understand God and view Him and
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everything else. And the problem
then becomes systemic. When my
wife went into nursing, I
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learned a new word. See, I study
systematic theology. And so when
she was working in the cancer
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unit, if cancer was systemic,
that means it was inoperable.
There was no place the physician
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could go and simply excise a
little part of the problem,
because it was all over the
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place. CHRIS: That's right.
PASTOR KARL: And this is the
magnitude of the sanctuary
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message and the devastation that
happened as a result of
Jeroboam's sin. And if we go
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back to First Kings 12, and we
just take a cursory glance,
every successive king followed
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in the steps of Jeroboam. And it
had this commentary for just
about every single one of them
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in First Kings 14, and I think
we still have Jeroboam. And so
we can look at First Kings 15
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and verse 29 and 30. It says:
PASTOR KARL: We could read verse
34, we could go to First Kings
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16 where it talks about Omri and
then Ahab. The commentary is
exactly the same: neither did he
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depart from the sin of Jeroboam,
who caused Israel to sin. The
next guy, same commentary, same
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commentary, same commentary,
until we get to Second Kings 17,
and they're all taken away.
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CHRIS: And you know, the sad
commentary on Israel is, as
you've said, between Jeroboam
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and the end of the kingdom,
there is that repeated phrase
that you talk about, "following
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in the sins of Jeroboam," and
also that phrase, "and he did
evil in the sight of the Lord."
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The sad thing about Israel,
there is never a restoration,
there is never a revival. Now,
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Judah, on the other hand, we see
in that kingdom, there is kind
of a rollercoaster ride, where
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there's departure. And we don't
have time to go there today, but
it's interesting, in every
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departure, there is a
restoration that takes place: a
restoration of the temple; a
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restoration of Passover, which
is really a restoration of
celebrating or worshipping at
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the temple; a restoration of the
law of God, which is ultimately
a restoration of the Word. Any
00:19:15.85\00:19:22.59
revival was preceded by the
restoring, which is interesting.
And I don't want to get us too
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off course, but it is
interesting when you look at the
end of time.God's people,
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Revelation 12:17, what is their
chief characteristics? They keep
the commandments of God and have
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the testimony of Jesus.
Revelation 14:12, they keep the
commandments of God and have the
00:19:41.78\00:19:48.88
faith of Jesus. Every revival,
every restoration in the history
of God's people has been
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preceded by a return to the
Word, which is framed and
founded on a return to the
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sanctuary. PASTOR KARL: Correct.
CHRIS: The sin of Jeroboam
ultimately demonstrates to us,
00:20:04.60\00:20:08.94
when we depart from the
sanctuary, we depart from the
Word. And there's really, it
00:20:09.04\00:20:17.88
leads to only one thing, and
that is, complete departure from
God and the abandonment of
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founding one's life on His
principles. PASTOR KARL: Yeah,
Chris, if I could give a few
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examples from First Kings 12 as
to how this new direction
changed their conceptions about
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God. I think it's important so
that the viewers could
understand that when the
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authority of God's Word is gone
and the sanctuary is gone, how
we view God is reinterpreted.
00:20:41.30\00:20:47.84
For instance, back
to First Kings 12:28:
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PASTOR KARL: So now, God is
being associated with the
material creation. So His being
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and His essence now are being
intertwined with the things that
He has made. So when God's Word
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is gone, when the sanctuary is
gone, we lose this idea that God
is a personal God that
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transcends the creation. As the
Sabbath commandment even reminds
us, that He has created these
00:21:17.71\00:21:23.48
things, He transcends these
things, His Being and His
Essence should not be confused
00:21:23.58\00:21:27.92
with these things. But the
moment that foundation is gone,
now you have God that is
00:21:28.02\00:21:33.62
intertwined, the nature of God,
intertwined with the nature of
the stuff that He's made. And
00:21:33.72\00:21:39.53
the ultimate result of that is,
nature worship. But I bet if you
were to ask the Israelites
00:21:39.63\00:21:44.30
or Jeroboam, who was really
leading out in this kind of
worship renewal or worship
00:21:44.40\00:21:48.57
revival, they would never admit
that they're worshipping nature.
They're just altering, you know,
00:21:48.67\00:21:55.34
they're just doing things in a
new way, so to speak. But how we
worship God, the forms that we
00:21:55.44\00:22:01.22
use, the rituals that we use,
are actually an interpretation
of Who He is. And that's one
00:22:01.32\00:22:08.92
major problem. So you have a
whole complete reinterpretation
of the nature of God, which is
00:22:09.02\00:22:14.73
devastating, which then gets
worked out into how they worship
and how they choose leaders. For
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instance, in verse 31-32, they
chose leaders that were not
qualified by the Bible. And
00:22:21.94\00:22:27.48
it's interesting, if you follow
the account in the story of the
kings, there was nothing but
00:22:27.58\00:22:32.01
infighting and obtaining
positions through deceit,
through murder, through all
00:22:32.11\00:22:38.12
these types of things. Because
when the standards of God's Word
are withdrawn, then who gains
00:22:38.22\00:22:44.53
those positions? The wealthy,
the powerful, the influential.
And so you have all of this
00:22:44.63\00:22:48.43
infighting going on when these
foundations are destroyed.
CHRIS: So clearly, what we see
00:22:48.53\00:22:54.97
here, Karl, is that when the
foundation is removed, when that
lens is taken away, it blurs the
00:22:55.07\00:23:03.85
very character of God, Who He is
and how we worship Him. Now,
Pastor Karl, we've already
00:23:03.95\00:23:11.72
learned that you actually grew
up here in the Toronto area.
PASTOR KARL: That's right.
00:23:11.82\00:23:15.12
CHRIS: How has this message
helped you encounter Jesus in a
special way? Did you grow up
00:23:15.22\00:23:21.40
believing in Jesus? Did you grow
up believing that the sanctuary
was the framework and the
00:23:21.50\00:23:27.04
foundation upon which you should
live? PASTOR KARL: I'd never
heard of these things before,
00:23:27.14\00:23:30.84
Chris. I grew up in the
Scarborough area. And you know,
we didn't really go to church a
00:23:30.94\00:23:38.88
whole lot, just maybe weddings,
funerals, things of that sort.
So I wasn't really immersed or
00:23:38.98\00:23:43.99
had much knowledge about God's
Word. And it was kind of through
studying the prophetic word that
00:23:44.09\00:23:52.19
I really realized that the Bible
began to be true. And
particularly, some of the
00:23:52.29\00:23:57.33
passages that we alluded to
before in Daniel chapter 8 about
the sanctuary being cleansed and
00:23:57.43\00:24:02.04
the discovery of the sanctuary
in heaven, and how the sacrifice
of Christ was prophesied of in
00:24:02.14\00:24:08.44
Daniel, I began to have new hope
that there was something
foundational, that there was
00:24:08.54\00:24:12.95
something secure. For me, that
meant a lot, because I really
didn't know. I couldn't really
00:24:13.05\00:24:16.82
say that I was an atheist. I was
more like an agnostic; I just
didn't really know. I wanted to
00:24:16.92\00:24:22.66
believe, but I really had no
anchor, or no basis, or no
reason to believe. And one of
00:24:22.76\00:24:29.50
my favourite texts was Isaiah
1:18 where God says, "Come now
and let us reason together." I
00:24:29.60\00:24:36.30
thought, "Wow, you mean God can
actually talk to me in a way
that I could understand? And
00:24:36.40\00:24:41.51
that if I have questions, and
I'm just looking for evidence,
He understands that?" That just
00:24:41.61\00:24:46.18
really blew me away. And so as I
saw the sanctuary linked with
prophecy, I began to have
00:24:46.28\00:24:51.52
evidence of the fact that the
Bible is true, that Christ is
doing a special work for me up
00:24:51.62\00:24:57.03
there, and He's seeking to bring
all of us into unity with
Himself. So it began to really
00:24:57.13\00:25:02.63
play a major part in forming who
I was as a new Christian, and
even in the work that I'm doing
00:25:02.73\00:25:09.17
now in studying worship in the
sanctuary as well. CHRIS: So you
were a 20-something here in the
00:25:09.27\00:25:17.01
Toronto area. You really were
living a life that was founded
on philosophy, really,
00:25:17.11\00:25:23.35
effectively. Philosophy had
played asignificant influence.
But you are looking for
00:25:23.45\00:25:29.46
something more. PASTOR KARL:
Absolutely. CHRIS: You encounter
00:25:29.56\00:25:33.36
the Bible. You encounter, and
you begin to see that as you're
having these questions - and I
00:25:33.46\00:25:39.23
can relate to this, because I
found myself in the same
situation around the same age,
00:25:39.33\00:25:44.04
where you know, I was never an
atheist; I knew there had to be
something, but I just wasn't
00:25:44.14\00:25:49.31
sure what it was. And my concept
of God was just this distant,
way-out-there Being. PASTOR
00:25:49.41\00:25:54.48
KARL: Correct, yeah. CHRIS: You
encounter these passages, Daniel
8, Daniel 7, Daniel 9, where you
00:25:54.58\00:25:59.55
understand the reality of the
sanctuary. It leads you to this
developing of a relationship of
00:25:59.65\00:26:07.76
that Isaiah 1:18 moment, "Come
and let us reason together,"
where you see that the sanctuary
00:26:07.86\00:26:13.70
teaches that God's interaction
is on heaven and on earth and
that He wanted to interact with
00:26:13.80\00:26:20.11
you personally. PASTOR KARL:
Mmhmm. CHRIS: It led you not
only to accept that Jesus in
00:26:20.21\00:26:25.08
fact died for your sins, and not
only were you baptized, become a
Christian, you go into a life of
00:26:25.18\00:26:30.92
ministry, trying to help people
find that, but it's led you to
your Ph.D. studies, where you've
00:26:31.02\00:26:36.83
studied about worship and the
sanctuary. And in the last
minute and a half we have
00:26:36.93\00:26:43.53
together here, Pastor Karl, what
can you say to help our viewer
understand to know that the same
00:26:43.63\00:26:51.61
God you encountered is the same
God that wants to encounter them
through the sanctuary? PASTOR
00:26:51.71\00:26:56.58
KARL: Chris, I just had an
awesome experience as God began
to unfold to me the beauty and
00:26:56.68\00:27:02.52
the power of these passages. I
began to see prophecy linked
with the sanctuary, and that was
00:27:02.62\00:27:08.42
meaningful for me, because
prophecy helped me to understand
the Bible was true. And I was
00:27:08.52\00:27:12.13
looking for a foundation. And
perhaps many viewers today are
looking for that, and they've
00:27:12.23\00:27:16.16
been inundated with scientism
and evolutionism, like I have,
and all these things. And so I
00:27:16.26\00:27:20.77
found a lot of intellectual
comfort and hope, but also, I
like to study philosophy, but
00:27:20.87\00:27:27.08
philosophy can be dry. And I'm
so glad that Jesus is the way,
the truth, and the life, and
00:27:27.18\00:27:33.85
that the word is made flesh and
we can have a personal
relationship with Him. And so
00:27:33.95\00:27:38.95
combining the theoretical and
the personal relationship with
Christ has been just absolutely
00:27:39.05\00:27:43.56
superb. And I would just
encourage people to come taste
and see that the Lord is good.
00:27:43.66\00:27:49.13
CHRIS: With that, let's have a
word of prayer. Heavenly Father,
I pray for every person
00:27:49.23\00:27:55.67
watching, every person listening
today, that they would come and
taste and see that You are good.
00:27:55.77\00:28:03.45
We pray this in Jesus'
name, amen. PASTOR KARL: Amen.
00:28:03.55\00:28:06.98
CHRIS: Dear friends, throughout
the scripture, there is one
thread, one crimson thread. That
00:28:14.16\00:28:20.83
crimson thread is the blood of
Christ and how He gave His life
for yours. The sanctuary leads
00:28:20.93\00:28:27.84
us to understand that crimson
thread and how Jesus wants to
personally interact with you.
00:28:27.94\00:28:34.31
Today, I want to offer you the
book, Where God and I Meet: The
Sanctuary. Here's the
00:28:34.41\00:28:40.62
information you need
to receive today's offer.
00:28:40.72\00:28:43.69
CHRIS: My dear friends,
foundations are everything, and
the foundation of the sanctuary
00:29:24.96\00:29:29.93
is essential to your growth in
Jesus and coming close to Him.
Pastor Karl, I want to thank you
00:29:30.03\00:29:37.07
for showing and demonstrating to
us the essential nature of the
foundation of the sanctuary.
00:29:37.17\00:29:43.24
PASTOR KARL: It's been great,
Chris. CHRIS: Dear friend, I
hope that today, you were moved
00:29:43.35\00:29:48.15
to choose Jesus. I hope you'll
join us again next week. Until
then, remember, it is written:
00:29:48.25\00:29:56.02
"Man shall not live by bread
alone, but by every word that
proceeds from the mouth of God."
00:29:56.12\00:30:02.60