>>Announcer: It has
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It Is Written.
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CHRIS: Thank you for joining It
Is Written. You know, we've had
many discussions in the past
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about Biblical origins. We've
discussed some scientific
reasons that the Biblical reason
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of origins is attractive. Now,
if you've missed any of those
shows on origins, you can go to
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our YouTube channel,
www.youtube.com/iiwCanada. But I
will tell you, when you look at
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origins, one of the
often-overlooked areas of
understandings in the issue of
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origins makes an immense
practical difference in our
lives. What is that issue? That
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issue is ethics. To help us in
our discussion about ethics, I
have with me Dr. Tim Standish.
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Dr. Standish, thank you so much
for joining us again. DR.
STANDISH: Oh, I'm glad to be
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back. CHRIS: You know, Dr.
Standish, you are the senior
scientist of the Geoscience
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Research Institute. You hold a
Bachelor's degree in zoology, a
Master's degree in biology, a
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Ph.D. in environmental biology.
And that's a lot of big words.
Maybe in simple, tell us, what
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do you do, Dr. Standish, on a
daily basis? DR. STANDISH: Well,
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by trade, I'm a molecular
geneticist. So I'm very
interested in DNA and the
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information that's encoded into
that DNA and how that
information is retrieved and
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used by the cells in our bodies
- and obviously, the cells that
make up any other organism - to
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actually make that organism.
It's a profound mystery, and
yet, we're finding out little
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things as we go along. And every
time we find out something new,
all of a sudden, we discover
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that things are much more
profound than we'd anticipated.
So it's an exciting area of
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science to work in. CHRIS: Yes.
Now, why is it that you're
working for the Geoscience
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Research Institute? And maybe
tell us a little bit about what
the Geoscience Research
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Institute does. DR. STANDISH:
Well, the Geoscience Research
Institute is a group of scholars
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- we're all Ph.D. scientists -
who are interested in the
relationship between the claims
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of science and what is revealed
in Scripture. Now, most of the
time, there is no disagreement
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between these things. Obviously,
there are some areas where there
are these kind of tensions
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between the current claims of
science and the clear statements
or clear record of Scripture. So
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we're interested in those areas
of tension. What do we do with
them as Christians? What do we
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do with them as scientists? We
kind of straddle that divide.
And yeah, it makes for a very
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interesting area, sometimes a
somewhat controversial area, to
work in. CHRIS: Now, if someone
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was interested in this area and
wanted to do a little more
reading, find some resources,
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where might they go to find more
information about the Geoscience
Research Institute and some of
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the work that you've been doing?
DR. STANDISH: Well, certainly, a
good place to start would be our
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website. And the URL is
GRISDA.org, so Grisda,
G-R-I-S-D-A, dot org.
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CHRIS: Wonderful. Now, you and I
have had a number of discussions
about origins. And people can go
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to our website or to our YouTube
channel and see some of those
discussions that - invigorating
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discussions - that we've had.
One of the issues when we talk
about origins - and I talked
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about that in the intro - that
we have not discussed is the
issue of ethics. So why don't we
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just start real baseline right
there? What is ethics? DR.
STANDISH: Basically, ethics are
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the principles, the system of
morals, that we use to decide
what's right and what's wrong;
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what's righteous and what's
unrighteous. CHRIS: Okay. So
here's, then, the question:
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You're a scientist, I'm a
pastor; why are we having a
discussion about ethics when it
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comes to the issue of origins?
DR. STANDISH: Well, because our
understanding of origins makes a
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huge difference in our
decision-making about what's
right and what's wrong.
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Obviously, one of the
foundational things that you
have to establish if you are
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developing a system of ethics
is, what is a human being?
Because if a human being is,
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let's say, a worthless object,
then killing a human being would
not be a bad thing at all. If a
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human being is an invaluable
creation of God, then, well, you
know, maybe human life has a
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different value to it than, you
know, other ways in which you
can look at it. So there are
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lots of implications just right
there. CHRIS: And I think you've
alluded to it just a
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little bit there, but let's talk
about that. What are the moral
implications of accepting the
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Biblical record of origins? DR.
STANDISH: Number one, the Bible
tells us that everything we see
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is ultimately created by God -
and this is very important -
also sustained by God. God
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sustains His creation. And so
then we have to ask ourselves,
"How should I treat this
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creation? Should I be
comfortable with the idea that
we can go out and destroy the
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environment in which we live?
destroy other organisms for some
short-term expediency for
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myself?" So just in terms of how
we treat the rest of the
creation is a big, big question,
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possibly one that we as
Christians should struggle with
a little bit more. Think about
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it. The Bible is quite amazing.
You know, it gives very specific
instructions about how we should
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treat other animals. It tells us
that God cares about other
creatures. It does not put,
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however, those other creatures
on the same footing as human
beings. The Bible tells us that
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human beings are different. We
have been created in the image
of God. It also tells us that
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there's something special, then,
about the relationship between
men and women. You know, there's
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one unique difference in the
creation of human beings that
you don't see with the other
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organisms. CHRIS: Okay. DR.
STANDISH: God formed Adam out of
the dust. The Bible tells us, in
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Genesis 2, that He formed all
the other creatures out of the
dust. God breathed the breath of
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life into Adam. But if we look,
particularly a few chapters into
the book of Genesis, where it
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starts talking about the flood
and talking about other
creatures with the breath of
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life in them. So well, what is
it that makes Adam different?
CHRIS: Yes, so you've got me
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wondering now. DR. STANDISH:
Well, he's formed in the image
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of God. But think about this:
What about Eve? First of all,
Adam got to observe the other
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creatures and realize his need
for a wife. The other creatures
didn't get that. And then - and
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this is just glorious - God
creates Eve from Adam. Wow.
That's different. Now, you're a
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pastor. I don't know, you know,
I'm a mere biologist. But I
notice these differences. And
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that does have powerful
implications. The relationship
between a man and a woman is not
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the same as the relationship
between a cow and a bull.
There's a difference there. So
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when we start talking about
relationships between human
beings, the creation account
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makes a huge difference. CHRIS:
That is powerful. And so, when
we look at the moral
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implications of understanding
and accepting the Biblical
account of origins, it has more
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than just the implication of an
intellectual ideology, but
rather, it affects, putting it
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simply, how I live, how I treat
others. Because when you and I
are talking, when you and I are
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interacting, you are a creature
created by God. When I interact
with the environment around me -
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this environment, the plants,
the animals - are things created
by a Creator that I ought to
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have an appreciation for. DR.
STANDISH: Oh, yes, yes. And you
know, there's another area that
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I think we can dig into if we
actually get into what I would
consider to be the most popular
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alternative view of things,
which is Darwinian evolution.
You know, it becomes quite stark
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when you start comparing and
contrasting what's going on
there. CHRIS: Yes. And I was
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just going to ask you about
that, because then, the glaring
question is: If I accept
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something outside the Biblical
account of origins, Darwinian
evolution is the most popular.
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Now, maybe just as kind of a
brief, very, very brief
explanation of Darwinian
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evolution - which won't do it
justice, because volumes have
been written - what is Darwinian
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evolution, in its simplest
explanation? DR. STANDISH: At
its core, Darwinian evolution is
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a materialistic theory of
origins. So it's a theory that
says there was no intervention
00:12:07.26\00:12:18.30
from outside of nature when it
came to the production of all of
the organisms that we see today
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CHRIS: And so, kind of standing
in distinction from the Biblical
account: the Biblical account
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gives a plan with a Planner, or
a design with a Designer;
Darwinian evolution, there is no
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plan, there is no design, there
is no planner, there is no
designer; things just happen
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because that's the course of
things happening, in its
simplicity. DR. STANDISH: Yes.
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Now, Charles Darwin himself,
remember, he was a trained
theologian. He was a trained
00:12:51.27\00:12:58.54
pastor. So he actually thought
about these things sometimes
quite deeply and wrote about
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them as well. So he actually
does do a fair amount of
comparing and contrasting
00:13:04.88\00:13:11.49
himself. I've got a quote here
that I want to read to you. This
is Charles Darwin writing, way
00:13:11.59\00:13:21.30
back in 1838. So you'll remember
that he published his theory of
evolution in a book called The
00:13:21.40\00:13:27.67
Origin of Species. That book was
published in 1859. So 21 years
before that, he was writing. And
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he wrote: So Darwin, long, long,
long before, actually, he
started writing The Origin of
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Species, had committed himself
to some kind of evolutionary
idea in which human beings came
00:14:03.37\00:14:12.81
from animals. And by the way,
this was not unique to him at
that particular time. It wasn't
00:14:12.91\00:14:18.75
even unique in his own family.
His grandfather. Erasmus Darwin,
believed the same thing and
00:14:18.85\00:14:24.13
actually wrote about it. He had
apparently a family motto that
said something like, "Everything
00:14:24.23\00:14:30.43
came from shells," which is kind
of interesting. But you know,
Darwin believed we came from
00:14:30.53\00:14:39.24
animals; we were not the
creation of God. So morally,
then, we're the same as the
00:14:39.34\00:14:48.62
other animals. CHRIS: And so,
with that said, then, Dr.
Standish, I mean, what is the
00:14:48.72\00:14:54.62
moral implication and what are
some of the moral implications?
DR. STANDISH: Well, you know,
00:14:54.72\00:15:01.03
I'm a mere biologist, so what I
try to do is I try to go and
read what people who are experts
00:15:01.13\00:15:06.90
in this area say. And I have a
quote here from Peter Singer.
Now, Peter Singer is a very
00:15:07.00\00:15:15.68
eminent ethicist. He's a
Darwinian ethicist. And many
people have heard of him because
00:15:15.78\00:15:24.75
he's been a champion of animal
rights. And that obviously
springs from his kind of system
00:15:24.85\00:15:35.10
of ethics. Human beings are not
necessarily different from
animals. So why would we treat
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humans differently than we treat
animals? So let me read this to
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you. He said, He argues that
animals and humans have the same
moral status. And he is not
00:16:11.37\00:16:20.64
alone in doing that. James
Rachels, another prominent
commentator in this area, wrote:
00:16:20.74\00:16:27.28
So you know, this is not. I
don't want to put words into
these gentlemen's mouths, but
00:16:46.37\00:16:54.78
this is very, very profound,
because if humans are the same
as animals, then either animals
00:16:54.88\00:17:02.88
have all the same rights as
human beings, or human beings
have no special rights at all.
00:17:02.98\00:17:11.99
CHRIS: Yes, and I mean, beyond
that, it would seem that not
only we talk about the operation
00:17:12.09\00:17:21.17
of society - and society is
governed by laws and
regulations, and many of those
00:17:21.27\00:17:27.44
laws and regulations, at least
in the United States and in
Canada, many of those laws and
00:17:27.54\00:17:34.02
regulations actually find their
roots in the Bible - but if
we're saying that, I mean, the
00:17:34.12\00:17:39.89
implications of this are
far-reaching, that not only do
animals and human beings have
00:17:39.99\00:17:46.93
the same rights, so to speak,
but then as human beings, we
really don't need to operate
00:17:47.03\00:17:54.14
within a set of laws or
regulations, because if we're no
different than animals, then we
00:17:54.24\00:17:59.07
should just do as we desire. DR.
STANDISH: That's right. If it's
okay for animals, it must be
00:17:59.17\00:18:03.78
okay for human beings as well.
Now, there are a number of areas
where this has actually come
00:18:03.88\00:18:09.28
into quite stark focus in the
last few years. One of them has
to do with the question of human
00:18:09.38\00:18:19.09
rights. In this system of
thinking, human rights don't
really actually kind of exist,
00:18:19.19\00:18:27.97
because why would we have
different rights than other
organisms? CHRIS: Okay. DR.
00:18:28.07\00:18:33.88
STANDISH: So how do you justify,
then, treating human beings
differently than cows or frogs
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or trees? What is developing is
a system that. it's a
utilitarian way of thinking
00:18:41.55\00:18:52.69
about things. Basically, the
argument is, humans are special
because we have special
00:18:52.79\00:18:58.60
cognitive abilities. We have
special brains, and cows don't.
So cows can't comprehend
00:18:58.70\00:19:06.41
suffering, let's say, in the
same way that human beings can.
Now, we have no real way of
00:19:06.51\00:19:13.18
knowing that, but this is sort
of the way the thinking goes. So
that sounds like it might work.
00:19:13.28\00:19:20.46
But what happens when you turn
that on its ear a little bit?
What happens if you have a human
00:19:20.56\00:19:26.66
being who is mentally impaired
in some way? What these guys
have done is they've separated
00:19:26.76\00:19:34.40
the concept of a human being,
which is reasonably easy to
identify - if it comes out of a
00:19:34.50\00:19:41.74
human mother, it's a human being
- from a concept we call
person-hood or something along
00:19:41.84\00:19:51.29
those lines. A person may have
special rights, but a human does
not. And then the argument goes,
00:19:51.39\00:20:00.10
if a person. when a human is
born, they're a baby. They don't
have the cognitive abilities of
00:20:00.20\00:20:10.37
a 20- or 30- or 50-year-old. So
therefore, they don't have
special rights. And in fact, it
00:20:10.47\00:20:18.35
has been advocated, even in
major - at least, I'm thinking
of one specific example, in a
00:20:18.45\00:20:27.86
major journal of medical ethics
- it's been advocated that it's
okay to kill babies, if they're
00:20:27.96\00:20:36.23
an inconvenience. CHRIS: Wow.
DR. STANDISH: Because they have
no special moral status. They
00:20:36.33\00:20:42.00
have not yet developed into
persons. And of course, the
concept of a person is something
00:20:42.10\00:20:49.41
that is decided by the person
who decides it. There's no kind
of sharp line there. What
00:20:49.51\00:20:59.92
happens when a person develops
Alzheimer's disease? Are they
still a person anymore? Or is it
00:21:00.09\00:21:06.90
okay to dispose of them? These
are questions that are being
seriously asked, reasoning from
00:21:07.00\00:21:16.44
the Darwinian perspective.
CHRIS: Yes, and I just want to
be clear, as maybe a viewer has
00:21:16.54\00:21:23.85
picked up our show in the
middle. We are not advocating
this; we are talking about the
00:21:23.95\00:21:27.68
implications of accepting
Darwinian evolution. And the
ethics of that is that
00:21:27.78\00:21:35.06
essentially, we take human
beings, and human beings are not
special, number one; but number
00:21:35.16\00:21:41.80
two, even within human beings,
we are making the distinction
that someone with cognitive
00:21:41.90\00:21:47.70
abilities is a person, and so
they have special rights, but a
human being by nature doesn't
00:21:47.80\00:21:54.21
have special rights, so someone
that is. DR. STANDISH: There are
00:21:54.31\00:21:58.78
no human rights. CHRIS: There
are no human rights. So someone
that is mentally handicapped in
00:21:58.88\00:22:02.15
some way, someone who is
possibly malformed, someone who
develops Alzheimer's later in
00:22:02.25\00:22:10.06
life, they're not a person, and
because they're not a person
with whatever cognitive
00:22:10.16\00:22:16.56
abilities the individual testing
cognitive abilities says is a
cognitive person, they're not a
00:22:16.67\00:22:23.64
person and have zero rights. DR.
STANDISH: Precisely. Now,
contrast that with the Biblical
00:22:23.74\00:22:31.51
view of things. CHRIS: Yes. DR.
STANDISH: And obviously, we can
talk in sort of abstract terms
00:22:31.61\00:22:37.82
about being created in the image
of God and all of those things,
00:22:37.92\00:22:42.12
but as Christians,
Bible-believing Christians, we
have a huge advantage, because
00:22:42.22\00:22:49.26
the Creator of this world came
down and lived as a human being:
Jesus Christ. So we can look at
00:22:49.36\00:23:01.18
how Jesus valued those who were
considered to be of less value
in the society that He operated
00:23:01.28\00:23:09.52
in. CHRIS: Yeah, I mean, Dr.
Standish, you've got my mind
just. I mean, I think about
00:23:09.62\00:23:15.52
Jesus. I mean, Jesus addresses
the leper; Jesus addresses the
crippled man; Jesus addresses a
00:23:15.62\00:23:21.86
woman who has an issue of blood.
And then even beyond that, Jesus
addresses someone who's dead.
00:23:21.96\00:23:29.67
And so the implications of that
are far-reaching. DR. STANDISH:
Oh, yes. The demoniacs. Think
00:23:29.77\00:23:33.31
about that. Jesus went across
the Sea of Galilee to meet men
who had lost their minds, and He
00:23:33.41\00:23:44.79
restored them. Here's another
one. And this really touches my
heart. Jesus, when people
00:23:44.89\00:23:54.00
brought their children to Him,
how did His disciples react?
They didn't think that the
00:23:54.10\00:23:59.87
children were worthy. CHRIS:
That's right. DR. STANDISH:
Because they, for better or for
00:24:00.04\00:24:06.81
worse, were thinking along
similar lines. But Jesus said,
you know, "Suffer the little
00:24:06.91\00:24:13.45
children. Come unto me." He
didn't say, "Well, when they're
old enough and they have the
00:24:13.55\00:24:20.69
cognitive abilities that make
them persons, then I will take
care of them." He, you know, was
00:24:20.79\00:24:29.96
there and ready to bless them
and value them. The Bible, both
the Old and New Testaments,
00:24:30.07\00:24:38.77
constantly call on the followers
of the created God to, you know,
help the needy, take care of the
00:24:38.87\00:24:50.72
vulnerable, and so on, not to
devalue them or make some
judgement about whether they're
00:24:50.82\00:24:57.56
persons and therefore they have
value and rights versus, you
know, being human, which doesn't
00:24:57.66\00:25:05.60
intrinsically have any rights.
It's 100% in one direction:
they're of infinite value. Jesus
00:25:05.70\00:25:11.74
Christ died for all human
beings. CHRIS: You know, Dr.
Standish, it's hard to believe
00:25:11.84\00:25:17.78
that we are out of time. But
what a profound not just
thought, but reality: to accept
00:25:17.88\00:25:25.45
an account of origins outside
the Biblical account of origins
has far-reaching effect, because
00:25:25.55\00:25:35.03
outside of it, there is no value
to a human being, but within it,
we value all human beings, which
00:25:35.13\00:25:43.97
is why we should feed the
hungry, why we should reach out
to the poor, why we should treat
00:25:44.07\00:25:50.81
one another with respect, even
when we disagree. Because, as
you pointed out, in God's eyes,
00:25:50.91\00:25:58.69
every last one of us is of
infinite value in His eyes, such
an infinite value, that He
00:25:58.79\00:26:08.96
actually came to this earth to
die for us to make us a new
creation. DR. STANDISH: Wow.
00:26:09.06\00:26:14.44
CHRIS: Amazing. Dr. Standish,
let's pray together. Lord, we
are so thankful that You made
00:26:14.54\00:26:21.51
us, and because You made us, we
are infinite in value in Your
eyes. We thank You so much, in
00:26:21.61\00:26:28.48
Jesus' name, amen.
DR. STANDISH: Amen.
00:26:28.58\00:26:31.69
CHRIS: Dear friends, what a
profound thought: the Master
Designer, Jesus Christ, crafted
00:26:37.09\00:26:43.97
and made you with infinite
value. You know, if you'd like
to learn more about this Jesus
00:26:44.07\00:26:52.21
Who places infinite value on
you, I'd like to offer you the
Discover Bible guides. You'll be
00:26:52.31\00:26:59.71
drawn nearer to Him, learn more
about Him. Here's the
information you need to receive
00:26:59.81\00:27:05.12
today's offer.
00:27:05.22\00:27:07.02
CHRIS: Dr. Standish, I want to
thank you so much for this
profound discussion on ethics.
00:28:02.51\00:28:07.98
DR. STANDISH: You know, the
bottom line is, in the Biblical
view of things, humans are of
00:28:08.08\00:28:12.39
infinite value; in the Darwinian
view, they are of questionable
value. CHRIS: You know, dear
00:28:12.49\00:28:19.16
friends, I want to thank you so
much for watching. And if you
want to continue to learn more
00:28:19.26\00:28:24.20
about this God Who places
infinite value on you, join us
again next week. Until then,
00:28:24.30\00:28:29.50
remember, it is written: "Man
shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that proceeds
00:28:29.60\00:28:36.28
from the mouth of God."
00:28:36.38\00:28:40.08