Participants: Chris Holland
Series Code: IIWC
Program Code: IIWC201531A
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00:00 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective
00:06 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:12 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:17 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:22 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:26 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:31 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:35 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:39 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:43 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:48 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 00:51 It Is Written - A Matter of Perspective 01:28 > 01:31 >>Announcer: It has stood the test of time. 01:34 God's book, The Bible 01:38 Still relevant in today's complex world 01:44 It Is Written 01:46 Sharing messages of hope around the world! 01:57 > 02:00 CHRIS: The Book of Revelation. Just the sound of it brings fear to some people. You know, the 02:07 Book of Revelation is a mysterious book by most people's accounts. In fact, how many 02:13 people handle this book is, they don't read it because they feel like you have to have special 02:17 knowledge to understand it, and others see beasts and judgments, and they read it so fearfully, 02:24 that it makes them so frightened, they don't want to read it, while others see the 02:30 gloom and the doom and the devastation and they say there's no way that this book can 02:36 actually be about the same Jesus who fed 5,000, who compassionately dealt with the 02:42 multitudes. But I believe there is another answer. And to help me find that other answer, I 02:49 have with me today in studio Pastor Jon-Ross Ennest. Pastor Ennest, welcome to the program 02:56 today. JON-ROSS: Thanks for having me. CHRIS: Pastor Ennest, you're pastoring a church. Tell 03:00 us, where are you pastoring? JON-ROSS: Yeah, well, I live in Gander, Newfoundland, which is 03:04 in central Newfoundland, and so I pastor there, and I also pastor a company out in Cape 03:10 Frees, Newfoundland. Beautiful spot. Chris, if you ever have a chance to come - white beaches; 03:14 it's great. CHRIS: Yes. JON-ROSS: As well, I do ministry in Lethbridge, Newfoundland as 03:19 well. CHRIS: That is wonderful. And you've actually been in ministry quite a few years. You 03:24 actually did some work in Alberta. JON-ROSS: Yeah. CHRIS: Did, actually, some 03:27 creative things. Tell me a little bit about what you did there in Alberta. 03:30 JON-ROSS: Yeah, well, we were church-planting, and in an effort to reach our community, 03:36 we opened a health food store. We had a café and organic produce co-op, and we also did 03:42 lifestyle education programs as well, like weight loss programs and stuff like that. 03:46 CHRIS: Well, that is a phenomenal thing. So glad that you're on the program. You have 03:51 been a student of the Book of Revelation for quite some time. JON-ROSS: Yeah. CHRIS: Pastor 03:55 Ennest, help me now here, because there are some people that just say this book can't be 03:59 understood, it's a scary book to read. Tell me, what are your thoughts on the Book of 04:05 Revelation? JON-ROSS: You know, I think it can actually be a terrifying book - really, it can 04:08 - but if you come at it from the wrong angle. And what really tips us off to what the Book of 04:15 Revelation is all about is actually Revelation chapter 1 verse 1. Yeah, we'll turn there. 04:20 CHRIS: Let's go right to the Book of Revelation, go to chapter 1, and verse 1, to see 04:27 what you're talking about here, Pastor Jon-Ross. JON-ROSS: Yeah. And so in Revelation 1:1, it 04:31 says: 04:41 JON-ROSS: And so right off, the Book of Revelation says that it's a revealing of Jesus 04:45 Christ, which is given. And so this book is claiming to be about Jesus, and so we should be 04:51 able to see Jesus. But I think the problem is, sometimes we come with preconceived ideas. 04:55 Maybe people have told us things about Revelation that have scared us. But the lenses that 05:02 we wear to view what's written here, I think that makes the. that's all the difference. And 05:07 what I think we need to do is maybe have a change of perspective. CHRIS: Well, it's 05:11 very interesting, you use that word "lenses," the lenses we wear. You wear glasses, I wear 05:14 contacts. JON-ROSS: Yeah. CHRIS: You know, and I don't know how you are; if I don't 05:17 have my contacts, I can't read. Things are blurry. And so you've used this word "lenses." Some 05:24 people use this big word "paradigm." And I appreciate the usage of the word "lenses." The 05:31 key piece here that you've identified is, Revelation 1:1 says, "the revelation of Jesus 05:38 Christ." This book is about the same Jesus who is talked about and testified to in Matthew, 05:45 Mark, Luke, and John; the same Jesus who fed the 5,000; the same Jesus who ministered 05:51 compassionately to many people. And this word "the revelation," that word, as you pointed out, 05:57 the revealing, can actually be translated from the original as "the unveiling," kind of pulling 06:03 back the drapes and pulling back the curtains to see in. So this Book of Revelation, what does it 06:10 reveal to us? You pointed out, it reveals to us the things that soon must take place. Let's talk 06:17 a little bit about that, and then we're going to get a little context and background to help 06:21 us get right into the Book of Revelation. JON-ROSS: Yeah. Well, if I'm understanding you 06:25 correctly, Chris, is, this book is helping us to get a grasp of how the flow of history is going 06:30 to go and how God is involved in that history, how God is invested in that history. And 06:35 when we come to the Book of Revelation and we look. we see doom and we see gloom and it 06:40 scares us, I think the key is to step back and say, "Well, who wrote the book?" Well, we 06:45 believe God inspired this book and He's preserved it down through the ages; but God used a 06:50 human being to pen it. And that one who penned. the person who penned the Book of Revelation is 06:55 the one that we call the apostle of love, the apostle John. CHRIS: Yes. JON-ROSS: And I 07:00 think that's something that should, again, tip us off. It should be a clue to say, "Well, 07:03 wait a minute. If people are saying this book is terrifying, it's frightening - the apostle 07:07 of love wrote this book. That seems kind of incongruent, you know. So how do we understand 07:12 this?" CHRIS: Yeah. And just to help our viewers, you're talking about the apostle John, the 07:15 apostle of love. This is the same apostle who wrote the Book of John and wrote the epistles 07:20 of John: First, Second, and Third John. This is the same John who, at this point in his 07:25 life, when he's writing the Book of Revelation, when the Holy Spirit has inspired him to write 07:30 these words, he has been imprisoned on the rocky island of Patmos. And this is after he 07:37 had been persecuted by the Romans. In fact, there's a story told in history that when John 07:44 would not worship the emperor, they were going to punish him by burning him alive in a cauldron 07:51 of boiling oil. JON-ROSS: That's right. CHRIS: And the story goes that they threw John in that 07:56 oil, and nothing happened to him. JON-ROSS: Nothing happened. CHRIS: So they've got this 08:02 apostle of love who is spreading the love of Jesus; they can't control him, so they do 08:07 something that can stop the message. JON-ROSS: Yeah. CHRIS: They isolate him on this 08:12 rocky island. So Pastor Ross, it's probably important for us to kind of understand who John 08:19 is and what John's intentions were to help us understand what this book really is getting to 08:25 the heart of. JON-ROSS: Absolutely. CHRIS: So where can we go to get a little 08:27 context of where John's writing from, his approach? JON-ROSS: Yeah. Well, you know, 08:32 for sure, you could go to the Gospel of John. I really value the epistles. I feel like John's 08:38 really pouring out his heart. He's writing this as a letter to those who are followers of 08:42 Christ. So let's head over to First John. I think that's going to be a great place for us to 08:46 start. CHRIS: Okay, we'll go to First John. And I will tell you, as we go to First John, I will 08:50 tell you personally - and it's hard to say you have a favourite book of the Bible - you know, I 08:57 love the entire Word of God. But I have always said that, you know, if somehow, someway, I was 09:02 being chased from my home and I could only grab one book of the Bible, it would be First John, 09:07 because I feel like First John is the encompassing of the entire gospel - in fact, the 09:12 encompassing of the entire story of the Bible - in five short chapters. In fact, I tell people 09:17 who are becoming new Christians, "Get right into First John because it's going to give you 09:20 the whole story, and then go back." So where are we going to go in First John? 09:24 JON-ROSS: First John chapter 2, second chapter, and we're going to look at verse 28. And here, 09:29 John is making a statement. And I love the. sorry, I value the love that he writes with towards 09:36 his audience. He says: 09:49 JON-ROSS: I think that that's such a beautiful verse. Here, he's saying, "Christ is coming 09:55 again," and that's something that the Book of Revelation is very clear about. 09:57 CHRIS: Absolutely. JON-ROSS: And he says that we can have confidence that we can rejoice, 10:00 that we can have hope when Christ returns. CHRIS: This is actually incredibly key to our 10:07 study in the Book of Revelation, because that's where Revelation 1:1 starts. It says, "The 10:13 revelation of Jesus Christ," and eventually says, "to show us the things that will shortly take 10:18 place." JON-ROSS: Right. CHRIS: And when we understand that in the context of being 10:21 written 2,000 years ago. and we understand it in the context of God's time, because God is 10:27 infinite; God knows no beginning and no ending. So 2,000 years, well, that is almost an 10:34 impossibility for us to imagine. In God's timing, that is a very short time. If the Book of 10:41 Revelation says these things are taking place shortly, we need to engage in such a way that we 10:47 understand it. And then you point out here - which is beautiful - we can have 10:50 confidence and not be fearful, not be ashamed. JON-ROSS: Yeah. CHRIS: So this is an amazing 10:55 thing. Now, help me out with. as we move forward in that passage. JON-ROSS: Mmhmm. Well, when we 11:02 see that - we just looked at verse 28 - later on, as we jump into the early parts of chapter 11:07 3, we see here. firstly, I'm just going to mention in verse 1: 11:17 JON-ROSS: I really appreciate that. That's something that's always been very encouraging to 11:18 me in my walk with Christ. But then he says, verse 2: 11:37 JON-ROSS: So here, John is saying, "We should be hoping in that return. That's something 11:41 that we should be longing for, desiring." And the fact that he's saying this - and that the 11:48 Book of Revelation is all about that coming - tells me, John has a very different perspective. 11:54 CHRIS: Yes. JON-ROSS: He has a very different perspective. CHRIS: Absolutely. And we're 11:57 going to pause for a moment, because we're trying to give a context to the Book of 12:00 Revelation to help us understand the Book of Revelation. And we're going to talk a little bit 12:05 about the Second Coming. We don't have a lot of time to unpack all the different issues 12:10 of the Second Coming, and so I want to say to our viewer, I did an entire series called "Hope 12:14 for a Helpless Planet" where I unpack the signs of Jesus' coming, how Jesus will come. And 12:21 I would encourage you - you can go to our website, itiswrittencanada.ca - there you 12:26 can watch archives of the program. Or you can call in to our phone number which will be 12:33 shown at the end of the show and you can ask them to send you a copy of "Hope for a Helpless 12:38 Planet." Now, Pastor Jon-Ross, Jesus is coming again, and so just to give a brief, very brief 12:45 synopsis of what the Second Coming means, why is the Second Coming - and again, we could 12:52 spend a multitude of shows - but in brief synopsis, why is the Second Coming important to us? 12:58 JON-ROSS: Well, I'll just share why it's important to me. CHRIS: Yes. JON-ROSS: The Second 13:02 Coming is important is because when Jesus comes back, He's going to be restoring all that 13:08 sin has damaged. He's going to be reconciling all that sin has separated. It's going to be a 13:16 re-creation, a renewal, of a close - and really, truly, a near, physically near-to-God 13:24 relationship. And so this Second Coming is - I believe John is saying he hopes in this - 13:31 because this is the time when, for him, he's on an island, he's isolated, he's separated. He's 13:36 excited about that Second Coming because that's a time when there's no more separation. 13:41 CHRIS: Yes. JON-ROSS: You know, he lived three-and-a-half years with his Lord. He's going to be 13:44 with Him again. CHRIS: Yes. And I think you've pointed out something. You've used this word 13:49 "separation" which I think is such a key word, both for John and in our modern time. We have 13:55 to understand, John is on the island of Patmos, and John had come from Ephesus, his home, and 14:04 he was separated by a vast expanse of water, which is kind of interesting - when John is 14:11 concluding the Book of Revelation, he talks about "there will be no more sea." And 14:15 sometimes people think, "Oh, there's going to be no more water in heaven." No, no, no, 14:18 that's not what it's saying. John is emphasizing this point of separation. So not only will 14:23 the separation between us and God, us and Jesus, be reconciled or brought back together, fixed, 14:30 mended, but in addition to that, broken relationships, broken families - separated by whatever 14:38 the case may be, whether it be death, whether it be anguish - none of that will exist ever 14:45 again when Jesus comes again. So the Second Coming is absolutely critical because it is a 14:51 cataclysmic event that changes everything, which is why John - and I don't want to get too 14:57 ahead of us - but which is why John concludes the Book of Revelation - we're going to 15:01 spend a lot more time at the beginning of the Book of Revelation - but John concludes 15:04 the Book of Revelation by saying there will be no more pain, no more sorrow, no more death, no 15:08 more dying. It is impossible, actually, for us as human beings to even imagine that, because we 15:17 function in a finite world. JON-ROSS: That's right. CHRIS: We have a beginning, we 15:20 have an ending. Both of us are pastors, and I know sometimes there are jokes that, you know, 15:26 about when people attend church, you know; we attend church when we're birthed; we attend church 15:33 when we're married; and we attend church when we die, you know. And so there is going to 15:39 be no more separation. JON-ROSS: I just want to throw out there is, I think it's 15:43 ironic that people view Revelation fearfully, when in reality, the one thing that - I 15:50 think it's one of the biggest things that separates us from others - is fear. CHRIS: Yes. 15:54 JON-ROSS: And so I think it's ironic that the Book of Revelation is about the 15:57 restoration and the removal of that fear, and that yet, people view this book with fear. 16:01 CHRIS: Absolutely. And it's interesting. You have the apostle John who, by the way, 16:08 the apostle John sitting on the island of Patmos is, you know, he's not a young 25-year-old. I 16:14 mean, he's probably in his 90s. And Patmos was a penal colony, meaning that the Romans had 16:24 brought him there for hard labour. I mean, he's probably breaking rock, and just imagine 16:29 that. But we find all of the apostles, all of the saints throughout time - and I use the 16:38 word "saints" more metaphorically speaking - those patriarchs. You know, Paul finds 16:44 hope in the Second Coming. Abraham looked forward to the Second Coming. Moses looked 16:50 forward to the Second Coming. And it was not in fear, but a great deal of hope. 16:57 JON-ROSS: That's right, absolutely. CHRIS: Now, let's understand a little bit more 17:00 about the apostle John and his hope in this Second Coming, and giving us a little of the 17:06 context of the Book of Revelation. And we could read, you know, the whole Book of 17:10 First John, but there's some other verses in First John that might help us in our journey. 17:15 JON-ROSS: Yeah, in chapter 4, actually, we can jump over, chapter 4. Really, you know, we 17:21 don't have time for it all, but verses 7 to 19 are really getting into just a beautiful 17:28 description of Who God is. That's where we find that wonderful statement, "God is 17:32 love." CHRIS: Absolutely. JON-ROSS: It's in that section, in First John 4. CHRIS: Pastor 17:36 Jon-Ross, why don't you go ahead and read verses 7 to 9, that gives us this love aspect that 17:43 John's really going to get at here? JON-ROSS: Sorry, 7 to 9? CHRIS: Yeah, verses 7 to 9. 17:48 JON-ROSS: Okay, perfect, yeah. 18:10 CHRIS: What a powerful passage. Powerful passage. And I think it's an important passage, you 18:14 know. We live in a society that has become increasingly polarized, especially when it 18:23 comes to the issue of Christianity. Unfortunately, there have been a number of 18:28 Christians, both on television in the public eye, but even in the private eye, who have been 18:35 very bombastic in how they treat others. And we find this amazing passage here in First John, and 18:42 this is. again, it's giving us a little context. I don't want to get too far off subject, but I 18:46 think it's important to understand, John's talking about Who God is. God is love, as 18:52 you've pointed out. And in addition to that, he's saying, if you don't love, you're not 18:59 really from God. And so, it lays this foundation of, really, what the Book of Revelation is all 19:04 about. The Book of Revelation is about helping us have hope in the love of God. 19:11 JON-ROSS: That's right. You know, I hear people say, you know, your true character is 19:14 revealed - who are you, deep down inside, you know - when you're at home alone by 19:18 yourself. And I think about, you know. what people are really saying when they say that is, at 19:23 those times when you're vulnerable, when you let your guard down. And when I think 19:26 about Christ putting on flesh and coming and living among us, that's letting your guard down. 19:30 That's being vulnerable. And John's reflecting on that life that he witnessed and he's 19:34 testifying of that life in First John. And so we see that God. He says He sent His only Son into 19:40 the world so that we might live through Him, that that separation from God, that brings 19:45 death. And John's saying we can live through Christ. CHRIS: And what's key to that, as we - 19:50 again, we're kind of laying the foundation to dive into the Book of Revelation - is that that is. 19:57 that's actually what that word means: the revelation of Jesus Christ. It's the pulling back of 20:02 the curtain, so to speak, on that love that God has for us. JON-ROSS: Yeah. CHRIS: So let's 20:08 get. in the end of that passage, I think there's some verses that are going to help us as we kind 20:18 of move forward. They're verses 16 to 19. Why don't you point out some things about those 20:20 passages there, Pastor? JON-ROSS: Absolutely. I'll read them for you here. 20:22 JON-ROSS: I'm just going to pause there. I just want you to catch, we can have confidence 20:28 for the day of judgment. CHRIS: Absolutely. JON-ROSS: And I'll keep reading here. I don't 20:34 want to pull too much out of context. 20:52 CHRIS: Okay. So, Pastor Jon-Ross, we've got people viewing right now that have a 20:58 view of Christianity and have had a view of Christianity that is a view of fear, judgment, 21:04 trepidation. JON-ROSS: Yes. My heart breaks at that. CHRIS: And John basically just. I mean, he 21:10 throws that completely out the window and says. JON-ROSS: Removes all doubt, any 21:14 questions. CHRIS: You don't need to fear. In fact, you need to hope. JON-ROSS: That's right. 21:17 CHRIS: Because this is really what love is, that God first loved us. JON-ROSS: Absolutely. 21:21 And that word there, for "confidence" could be literally translated as "boldness." And 21:25 when you think about boldness, most people don't think, "I'm bold? With God? Boldness in the 21:31 judgment?" CHRIS: Yes. JON-ROSS: Again, John's perspective is not the average 21:36 perspective, like, you know, in society today when we look at the Book of Revelation. He's 21:40 looking at Christ's return. He's looking at Christ's judgment, and he's saying, "Let's get 21:46 excited. There's something big happening, something good happening. Let's rejoice." 21:52 CHRIS: Absolutely, let's rejoice. Now, Pastor Jon-Ross, we only have a few minutes left, 21:58 and to the viewer who's saying, "Oh, but there's so much more," we're going to spend a few shows 22:02 dealing with this subject. But in these few moments that we have left, let's go back to the 22:06 Book of Revelation. Let's go back to Revelation 1 and let's talk about, in verses 5 and 6, 22:13 in Revelation chapter 1 verses 5 and 6, it brings us back around to these same thoughts that John 22:21 has been sharing with us. Why don't you go ahead and read verses 5 and 6 of Revelation 1? 22:47 CHRIS: So Pastor Jon-Ross, the Book of Revelation is an 22:54 unveiling, the peeling back of a curtain, on the love of Christ. And then we have this passage, 23:01 right in the first few verses of the Book of Revelation. Tell me, what does that mean? What's the 23:07 context that that gives us? JON-ROSS: Yeah, yeah. And I think the context, we can 23:10 actually find, in First John chapter 4, verse 10. There, it talks about how Christ is our 23:15 propitiation, which is a word we don't use very common, you know, our everyday language. And there 23:21 - we can turn there if you want, just quickly. We can leave a finger there in Revelation. But 23:26 in First John 4:10, it says: 23:35 JON-ROSS: And we ask ourselves the question, you know, "What is propitiation?" You know, again, 23:41 this is a word we don't use very often. What we have to first note is that it's for our sins. 23:44 And when we compare that with another passage that uses that same expression, "for our sins," 23:46 First Corinthians 15:3, there, it says that Christ died for our sins. So this word 23:52 "propitiation" essentially - and we break down the original Greek language - it is the atoning 23:58 sacrifice. In the culture in which John wrote this, a propitiation was a gift or a 24:06 sacrifice to appease. Here, Christ has stepped in as our sacrifice. It's in the emphatic 24:13 language; the Greek is in the emphatic. He himself sacrificed, died, for your sins, my sins, 24:18 everybody's sins. CHRIS: And Pastor Jon-Ross, it's so hard to believe we're out of time. But 24:22 this is powerful. The Book of Revelation is all about drawing back the curtains on the one who 24:29 died, gave his life for us, to help us understand and not to be afraid, but to find hope in 24:36 Jesus. JON-ROSS: Amen. CHRIS: Let's pray together. Heavenly Father, we are grateful 24:41 that you gave us this Book of Revelation. We don't have to be afraid, but we can have 24:46 confidence in knowing that Your Son Jesus died for all of us. We pray in Jesus' name, amen. 24:54 JON-ROSS: Amen. 25:26 > 25:30 >>Bev: Hi everyone. We've been focusing on the "NEWSTART" acronym and today we are looking 25:34 a "T" for temperance. Temperance is kind of an old-fashioned word for a new-fangled notion called 25:40 balance. Do you have balance in your life? We need balance in all things - eating, sleeping, 25:47 working, playing, exercising, even in the way we love ourselves and others. As humans, 25:52 we often think that if something is good for us, we should do it all the time, or eat it all the 25:58 time. The key is this: Not, everything in moderation, because not everything is good 26:04 for us. But, rather, all good things in moderation. When we talk about nutrition and 26:11 temperance, we want to be sure we are eating just enough of the good foods that will enhance our 26:17 health. So, for adults, when it comes to eating well, we're talking 7-10 servings of 26:22 vegetables and fruits daily, 6-8 servings of grain products, 2-3 servings of milk or milk 26:29 alternative products, and 2-3 servings of meat or meat alternative products. When we 26:35 overeat, we sabotage our health by putting on more weight and increasing our risk for various 26:41 diseases. Also, when we don't eat enough, we put our bodies at risk. So, balance is essential 26:49 when it comes to eating well within a healthy lifestyle. The same goes for exercise. We can 26:56 cause injury to our bodies when we are excessive in our exercise habits. However, if we take the 27:02 couch potato route and don't exercise, do you know it's just as bad as smoking a pack of 27:07 cigarettes a day? Incredible, isn't it? Too much sunshine can bring on disease, too little can 27:14 bring on disease. Too much sleep can make us groggy, too little can impair our immune system. 27:21 Everything in life requires balance, temperance! 2 Peter 1:6 advises us, 27:34 When we are knowledgeable about healthy living, we can make those wise choices that bring 27:39 balance into our lives. If you want additional information on healthy living, visit our It Is 27:46 Written website at www.iiw.ca, go to the Live Healthy page, and you'll find links to lots of 27:50 great resources. See you next time! 27:58 > 28:00 CHRIS: The Book of Revelation is not a book we need to fear; it is a hope-filled book that we 28:05 can have confidence in to come to Jesus our Saviour. To help you in your journey with Jesus, 28:10 I want to offer to you today the booklet "Daniel and Revelation: Secrets of Prophecy." Now, the 28:17 reason we're offering this booklet is, Daniel gives us the context of the book of 28:23 Revelation. Here's the information you need to receive today's offer. 29:21 > 29:26 CHRIS: Pastor Jon-Ross Ennest, thank you so much for being with us today. JON-ROSS: Yeah, thanks 29:29 so much for having me, Chris; it was a lot of fun. CHRIS: You know, friend, you can find hope 29:35 in Jesus. You can find additional resources for your journey with Jesus at 29:40 itiswrittencanada.ca. I pray that you'll join us again next week. Until then, remember it is 29:47 written: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of 29:52 God." 29:56 $$$$$$ |
Revised 2016-04-21