>>John Bradshaw:
This is It Is Written.
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I'm John Bradshaw.
Thanks for joining me.
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In an age of shocking crimes,
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in an age where,
where mass shootings
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just don't really
surprise us anymore,
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in an age of unhinged
people committing heinous acts,
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this one was
really very shocking.
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Charleston, South
Carolina, was founded in 1670.
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It's situated right
on the Atlantic coast
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and was named in honor of
the English monarch at the time,
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King Charles II.
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A city with roots that deep
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is clearly a place with
some interesting history.
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And, given the
time periods involved--
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colonization, slavery, the
Revolution, the Civil War--
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some of that history is painful.
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Just a few days
before summer began in 2015,
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a 21-year-old South Carolina
man traveled to Charleston
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with malice on his mind.
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The young man who
came to Charleston that day
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possessed a
sickened mind and a gun.
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A combustible mixture.
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He came here to
Emmanuel AME Church
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fully intending to do harm--
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or more to the point,
fully intending to take life.
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Motivated by racial hatred,
he mingled with worshipers
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at the mid-week Bible study,
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biding his time until
he fired almost 80 shots
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and took nine lives.
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He murdered six
women and three men.
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He was arrested the next
day almost 250 miles away.
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It's not easy to imagine the
impact of an event like this.
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Think of it this way.
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In September of 1989, at least
two dozen South Carolinians
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died when Hurricane Hugo
battered parts of the state.
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Now, of course, a
tragedy is a tragedy,
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but this was
nature; things happen.
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Earthquakes and tornadoes and
hurricanes are to be expected.
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But what happened in
June of 2015 was different,
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very different, in fact.
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When a person dies in a
natural disaster, for example,
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there are some
survival mechanisms,
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some psychological
mechanisms survivors
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or those affected by
the tragedy can default to.
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In spite of, "This isn't fair."
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In spite of, "Why
did this happen to us?"
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In spite of, "Life
is rough right now."
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In spite of a sense of
helplessness and anger,
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what we know is that
natural disasters happen.
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We know that
cancer, for example,
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heart disease,
strokes, they occur.
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It was terribly
sad that Grandma died,
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but, after all, people do die.
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But how do you wrestle
with something like that?
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Nine people didn't simply die
here in Charleston that night.
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They had their lives snatched
away due to a deliberate,
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thought-out,
planned act of hatred.
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Children were
left without parents.
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Parents lost their children.
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Siblings and friends and
neighbors and colleagues,
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all had to wrestle with a
radically altered existence,
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one that contained
now some very big holes.
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People went to church
that night--to church--
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to worship, to pray,
to study the Word of God.
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This was hideous.
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We know how God
feels about murder.
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The sixth commandment
is probably best expressed
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when it's translated,
"Thou shalt not murder."
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This is truly disastrous.
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So how do you go on when
somebody you love is murdered
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in circumstances like these,
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by a person who
sought out innocent people
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for the purpose of doing
something ultimately hateful?
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Well, we're about to find out.
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Myra Thompson was there
that night at the church
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often referred to
as "Mother Emmanuel."
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She was among the
nine people murdered.
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Her husband Anthony has
made the remarkable decision
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to forgive the man who
killed not only his wife,
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but eight others.
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Thank you so
much for joining me.
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I appreciate it greatly.
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It was June 17,
2015. What happened?
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>>Pastor Anthony
Thompson: Someone called me
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from the church--
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not from the church--
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it was a member of
Emmanuel AME Church called me
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and, and told me that shooting
was going on at the church,
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and somebody was
shooting outside.
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That's, at least, I
thought it was outside.
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So I, I took
off out of my house.
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I, I drove down, found out
that shooting was taking place
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inside the church,
not outside the church.
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Then I was told that
family members had been moved
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from the church to a hotel.
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So I thought
everything was okay,
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until I got there,
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found out that
ambulances were parked outside.
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Nine.
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So I thought, had to be more
to it than what I had been told.
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And once I searched,
trying to find my wife,
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frantically
searching, trying to find her,
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and trying to get
into Emmanuel AME Church,
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I discovered...I
lost my best friend,
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the one I love the most.
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And, uh... [inhales and exhales]
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it kind of took
everything out of me.
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>>John: You made a
remarkable decision, however.
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This was a crime intentionally
perpetrated by a hate-filled man
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bent on causing pain,
perpetrating violence,
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and, and starting a race war.
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>>Pastor Thompson: Mm-hmm.
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>>John: But you
didn't take the bait.
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And somehow you and others
made a decision to forgive,
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a decision I'm sure some
people would think is crazy.
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Let's get to that in a
moment, but I want to ask you,
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how were you able to make the
decision to forgive, and why?
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>>Pastor Thompson: Well,
the decision to forgive Dylann
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came easy.
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Not for me, but easy in a
way that God stepped in and,
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and made it possible,
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because He put me in a
place in the bond hearing,
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a place where I
didn't want to be.
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Then when I got there,
He had me to say something
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that I had no idea
I was going to say.
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And that was to forgive him.
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And so, that's what I
mean when I say it was easy.
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But then...you know, after
thinking about it for some time
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after actually doing it,
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I realized that He had been
preparing me for that moment
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for a long time.
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>>John: Why do you think it
was that you chose to forgive
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when so easily
you could have said,
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"I'm not going to forgive,"
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and you, you could have
stood up in that hearing
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and said all
manner of unkind things?
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Why did you make that choice?
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>>Pastor Thompson: Well...
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first, I didn't want Dylann
to have control over my life.
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I didn't want him to have
control over my children's life.
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I wanted to just be rid of him.
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And one way of being rid
of him was to forgive him
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so that then his intentions
of starting a race war wouldn't,
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wouldn't happen.
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And, if I'd gone
the opposite way,
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well, I would
have gave in to him,
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and he would
have been in control.
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And so forgiveness was
a way of releasing myself
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from his control.
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>>John: And clearly
that's what you've done.
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You've released yourself
from the control of the person
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who committed this
terrible act of violence.
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I wonder if some people would
say you let him off the hook.
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>>Pastor Thompson: Yes.
Some people have said that.
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Some people said
that they don't see how
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I could forgive him
because it's like saying,
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I don't want
anything to happen to him;
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I don't want him to be punished.
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And, um, my answer was, "No,
it was letting me off the hook."
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Dylann is being punished.
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Dylann is in jail--
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nine, nine counts of,
uh, the death sentence.
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And so I'm not
letting him off the hook;
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I'm letting myself off the hook,
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you know, from
having him have control,
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from, from me being angry,
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and from me hating him and
just making my life miserable.
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Because if I had not forgiven
Dylann, you know, the anger
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and harboring anger and
hate in my heart for him
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would only destroy my life.
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>>John: What sort of
man would you be today
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if you'd not made
the choice to forgive?
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>>Pastor Thompson: I probably
wouldn't be at this church.
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Because, first
thing came to my mind was,
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what, what am I going to
do? I have no more purpose.
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And I was thinking, well, does
that mean leaving the church?
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So, I probably wouldn't be here.
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Could have just continued
to pity myself and pity myself.
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I don't think it
would have been good.
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My life probably would
have changed drastically.
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You know, I probably
would have gone from God
00:09:07.31\00:09:08.94
to not depending on
Him, depending on myself.
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Could have led to drinking,
drugs, uh, I don't know.
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You know, it could have
gone quite the opposite.
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>>John: Here's another unknown,
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although people
have speculated on this.
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Your decision to forgive, the
decision made by you and others,
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to forgive a murderer had a
very powerful effect on a city.
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>>Pastor Thompson: Mmm.
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>>John: Tell me about that,
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how the city of Charleston
was impacted by forgiveness.
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>>Pastor Thompson:
Well, the city of Charleston
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was not looking for forgiveness.
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They were looking
for us to start a riot,
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to start the race
war like Dylann wanted.
00:09:42.01\00:09:44.08
And from that not happening,
it just put everybody in awe,
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gave them time to think--
what, what just happened?
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You know, why?
00:09:55.32\00:09:57.26
What was that? You know.
00:09:57.29\00:09:59.56
And, and then immediately
everybody just hold hands
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and hugged, cried together,
00:10:03.73\00:10:06.30
you know, uh, brought flowers
00:10:06.33\00:10:07.84
and put them in front
of the church together.
00:10:07.87\00:10:09.50
And spent days, I mean, the
city of Charleston was crowded;
00:10:09.54\00:10:12.64
the downtown area was so crowded
traffic couldn't even move
00:10:12.67\00:10:16.51
because the
people wouldn't move.
00:10:16.54\00:10:17.61
The people just wanted
to be attached to somebody.
00:10:17.65\00:10:20.25
And it didn't matter what
your race was or what your color
00:10:20.28\00:10:23.32
or your culture was or
how different you spoke.
00:10:23.35\00:10:25.92
You know, we, we just
wanted to communicate.
00:10:25.95\00:10:28.12
We, we, you know, it was like,
00:10:28.16\00:10:30.93
it was like we all
had a sense of family
00:10:30.96\00:10:34.56
'cause somebody came and
just destroyed and killed
00:10:34.56\00:10:38.47
some people in our family,
like brothers and sisters,
00:10:38.50\00:10:40.70
and so we came together
like brothers and sisters,
00:10:40.74\00:10:42.84
like, you know,
"Oh my God," you know,
00:10:42.87\00:10:44.37
you know, "Myra's gone."
00:10:44.41\00:10:46.37
You know, "Tywanza, he's gone."
00:10:46.41\00:10:49.24
You know, just like you,
like they lost somebody, too.
00:10:49.28\00:10:53.15
And so it gave everybody a sense
of just wanting to be together,
00:10:53.18\00:10:55.65
being a, being a family,
00:10:55.68\00:10:56.65
and that's what we're
trying to work on now.
00:10:56.69\00:10:58.45
>>John: There's
power in forgiveness.
00:10:58.49\00:10:59.85
There is power in forgiveness.
00:10:59.89\00:11:01.52
Looking forward to talking more
with Pastor Anthony Thompson
00:11:01.56\00:11:03.79
about this in just a moment.
00:11:03.83\00:11:06.06
¤[music]¤
00:11:06.09\00:11:11.23
>>Announcer: We
hear it all the time:
00:11:15.24\00:11:17.14
God is
all-powerful, and God is love.
00:11:17.17\00:11:19.91
But if God is so
powerful and loving,
00:11:19.94\00:11:22.21
why is there so much suffering?
00:11:22.24\00:11:24.28
Discover what the
Bible says on the subject
00:11:24.31\00:11:26.25
by requesting
today's free offer,
00:11:26.28\00:11:28.28
"Why Does God Allow Suffering?"
00:11:28.32\00:11:29.92
It's absolutely free.
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Just call 800-253-3000,
00:11:31.52\00:11:35.06
800-253-3000,
00:11:35.09\00:11:38.19
or write to the
address on your screen.
00:11:38.23\00:11:39.93
You can also make
your request online
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at iiwoffer.com.
00:11:41.56\00:11:43.90
>>John Bradshaw: Thanks for
joining me on It Is Written.
00:11:45.40\00:11:47.90
My very special guest
is Pastor Anthony Thompson,
00:11:47.94\00:11:50.71
whose book, "Called to Forgive,"
00:11:50.74\00:11:52.54
recounts the terrible tragedy
in Charleston, South Carolina,
00:11:52.57\00:11:56.58
in 2015 and its aftermath.
00:11:56.61\00:11:59.88
Uh, tell me about the
process of writing that book.
00:11:59.91\00:12:02.92
It had to be
painful, therapeutic.
00:12:02.95\00:12:06.12
How was that for you?
00:12:06.15\00:12:07.56
>>Pastor Anthony
Thompson: Well, initially,
00:12:07.59\00:12:08.92
I didn't want to
write immediately
00:12:08.96\00:12:11.33
because...we had
people coming at us
00:12:11.36\00:12:15.53
from all different
kind of directions,
00:12:15.56\00:12:17.47
and didn't have time to mourn,
00:12:17.50\00:12:19.93
barely had time to
think about what had happened.
00:12:19.97\00:12:22.84
And I didn't want to re-live
that, you know, not at the time.
00:12:22.87\00:12:27.71
And so, um, I
gave it some prayer,
00:12:27.74\00:12:30.65
with the help of other
people praying with me.
00:12:30.68\00:12:33.82
And then,
eventually, I started speaking,
00:12:33.85\00:12:38.15
started speaking
to different crowds,
00:12:38.19\00:12:40.69
different
churches, organizations,
00:12:40.72\00:12:43.06
and as I spoke,
it was like venting,
00:12:43.09\00:12:46.53
and I could feel myself
being relieved day by day.
00:12:46.56\00:12:50.10
But then after a while, after
realizing the real purpose,
00:12:50.13\00:12:55.90
that God wanted
this to be a mission
00:12:55.94\00:12:59.17
and spread the
gospel of forgiveness,
00:12:59.21\00:13:02.08
is when I heard the people
seeking, seeking something,
00:13:02.11\00:13:05.45
some kind of peace,
00:13:05.48\00:13:06.72
wanting to know how--
"What is forgiveness?"
00:13:06.75\00:13:08.18
"How does it work?"
You know, "What can I do?"
00:13:08.22\00:13:10.25
And then it kicked in.
00:13:10.29\00:13:12.89
You know what, yeah, I
need to write this book.
00:13:12.92\00:13:15.12
>>John: It's interesting,
as a minister of the gospel,
00:13:15.16\00:13:17.06
forgiveness is your
thing; it's what you talk about.
00:13:17.09\00:13:18.93
It, the, the gospel
is about forgiveness.
00:13:18.96\00:13:21.53
A sinful world, we need
reconciliation with God.
00:13:21.56\00:13:24.87
So talk to me
about your understanding,
00:13:24.90\00:13:27.67
your experience in
God's forgiveness towards us.
00:13:27.70\00:13:31.24
How do you understand that more
differently or more completely,
00:13:31.27\00:13:33.74
now that you've been called
to forgive in a very real,
00:13:33.78\00:13:39.45
very raw sort of a way?
00:13:39.48\00:13:41.62
>>Pastor Thompson:
Before this actually happened,
00:13:41.65\00:13:43.89
before God
intervened...you know,
00:13:43.92\00:13:47.99
I didn't give forgiveness a real
thought, a real deep thought.
00:13:48.02\00:13:52.99
All I knew was that I
was a forgiven person,
00:13:53.03\00:13:55.90
and some of the things
that I experienced in my life
00:13:55.93\00:13:58.97
from my childhood--I
went through some things that,
00:13:59.00\00:14:01.14
uh, some people who
offended me, you know--
00:14:01.17\00:14:04.41
I forgave them in the past.
00:14:04.44\00:14:06.94
And, but never really
experienced the kind of peace
00:14:06.98\00:14:11.61
that I experienced
when I forgave Dylann
00:14:11.65\00:14:14.12
at the bond
hearing that day, you know,
00:14:14.15\00:14:16.65
because what he did to my wife,
it was completely different.
00:14:16.69\00:14:21.22
Um, and so, I saw
forgiveness then as,
00:14:21.26\00:14:27.13
well, something I'm
supposed to do, you know.
00:14:27.13\00:14:30.57
And I knew that it, if I did it,
00:14:30.60\00:14:33.20
something good
would come out of it.
00:14:33.23\00:14:35.60
But then when I forgave Dylann,
00:14:35.64\00:14:37.04
it was more than
something good came out of it.
00:14:37.07\00:14:39.44
It was, I
received a peace, you know,
00:14:39.47\00:14:44.88
I mean, a, a calmness,
00:14:44.91\00:14:47.85
a more sense of
letting God have control,
00:14:47.88\00:14:52.29
knowing that I
could trust Him, you know,
00:14:52.32\00:14:56.46
because of what He
brought into my life,
00:14:56.49\00:14:59.33
where He gave me new purpose.
00:14:59.36\00:15:01.73
And so it was that,
that, it was different...
00:15:01.76\00:15:06.00
at the tragedy than it
was prior to the tragedy.
00:15:06.03\00:15:09.50
>>John: Undoubtedly there
are many people watching us
00:15:09.54\00:15:11.14
right now who are struggling
to forgive, refusing to forgive.
00:15:11.17\00:15:16.38
"I know I should
forgive, but I won't.
00:15:16.41\00:15:19.01
It hurts too much."
00:15:19.05\00:15:20.32
This and that.
00:15:20.35\00:15:21.38
What would you say to
that person that's wrestling
00:15:21.42\00:15:23.12
with forgiveness?
00:15:23.15\00:15:24.25
How does someone go
about forgiving another person?
00:15:24.29\00:15:28.12
>>Pastor Thompson: I would say,
00:15:28.16\00:15:29.26
right now, I
know you're hurting.
00:15:29.29\00:15:32.29
You know, I know somebody
did something to offend you,
00:15:32.33\00:15:35.23
and, and it hurts you, and you
probably want to get them back.
00:15:35.26\00:15:39.47
You know, you
probably hate the person.
00:15:39.50\00:15:41.57
You're probably
angry at that person.
00:15:41.60\00:15:43.67
And you feel
you've got to do that
00:15:43.71\00:15:46.88
because it's going
to make you feel better.
00:15:46.91\00:15:49.44
Well, I'm going
to let you know now:
00:15:49.48\00:15:50.78
It won't make you feel better.
It'll make you feel worse.
00:15:50.81\00:15:54.22
Because harboring
anger and harboring hate,
00:15:54.25\00:15:57.42
it affects your
health; it affects your mind;
00:15:57.45\00:16:00.66
you know, it just
affects your soul.
00:16:00.69\00:16:02.19
And you just get
deeper and deeper
00:16:02.22\00:16:04.69
and deeper and
deeper until, till,
00:16:04.73\00:16:07.10
till wanting to
do something bad.
00:16:07.13\00:16:09.36
But forgiveness is,
it may be hard to do,
00:16:09.40\00:16:13.37
but God can help you.
00:16:13.40\00:16:16.04
All you need to do is
to ask God to forgive you;
00:16:16.07\00:16:20.61
then ask God to help
you forgive the person
00:16:20.64\00:16:22.84
you can't seem to forgive.
00:16:22.88\00:16:24.78
And that's all
He'll require of you,
00:16:24.81\00:16:26.31
and He will help you do it.
00:16:26.35\00:16:28.22
You will do it.
00:16:28.25\00:16:29.45
And when you do it, I
guarantee you 100 percent
00:16:29.48\00:16:33.19
that He will give you that
peace that you've been trying
00:16:33.22\00:16:35.96
to find through other means
of being angry and revenge.
00:16:35.99\00:16:39.29
>>John: How
about, though, though--
00:16:39.33\00:16:42.03
someone's going to say, "Yeah,
my neighbor backed into my car
00:16:42.06\00:16:45.20
and then lied about
it. Cost me $1,100."
00:16:45.23\00:16:48.70
But that's that. But
what about the big things?
00:16:48.74\00:16:53.98
And you're
qualified to speak about this
00:16:54.01\00:16:55.58
'cause you went
through the biggest thing.
00:16:55.61\00:16:57.98
Help someone get over that hump.
00:16:58.01\00:17:00.15
'Cause I can just
imagine somebody saying,
00:17:00.18\00:17:02.22
"Yeah, I, I understand that,
00:17:02.25\00:17:03.62
but you don't know
what I've been through."
00:17:03.65\00:17:06.59
How do we address that with
the really difficult things?
00:17:06.62\00:17:09.79
[inhales and exhales]
00:17:09.82\00:17:11.93
>>Pastor Thompson: We
can make things difficult,
00:17:11.96\00:17:13.56
because we, we, we
define sin as small sin,
00:17:13.60\00:17:19.03
as big sin.
00:17:19.07\00:17:20.47
We look at lying
as something small.
00:17:20.50\00:17:22.60
"Well, I can do
that. I can forgive them."
00:17:22.64\00:17:24.17
Then we look at murders.
00:17:24.21\00:17:25.31
"Oh, that's, that's just
too, that's just too much.
00:17:25.34\00:17:27.54
I can't forgive him."
00:17:27.58\00:17:29.01
But sin is a sin.
00:17:29.04\00:17:31.85
You know, wrong
is wrong; bad is bad.
00:17:31.88\00:17:34.95
There's no
greater; there's no lesser;
00:17:34.98\00:17:37.09
they're all the same.
00:17:37.12\00:17:38.09
So, you've got to
take a look at that first.
00:17:38.12\00:17:40.62
You know, then you've got to
take a look at your own life.
00:17:40.66\00:17:43.06
You've got to examine
yourself and say to yourself,
00:17:43.09\00:17:46.80
"Who have I done wrong
to? Who have I lied to?"
00:17:46.83\00:17:48.66
What, you know, you
know, was it, was it a big sin,
00:17:48.70\00:17:51.63
or was it a small sin?
00:17:51.67\00:17:52.97
There's no, no greater.
00:17:53.00\00:17:54.74
And then if you can
see yourself as a person
00:17:54.77\00:17:58.31
who's done somebody
wrong or said something wrong,
00:17:58.34\00:18:00.44
then it makes it a little
easier for you to see the person
00:18:00.48\00:18:03.14
that did you wrong,
00:18:03.18\00:18:04.25
no matter how big, how
small you may see it to be.
00:18:04.28\00:18:06.95
But there's no bigger sin,
and there's no smaller sin.
00:18:06.98\00:18:09.02
Sin is sin.
00:18:09.05\00:18:10.69
>>John: And if we
look at the Bible,
00:18:10.72\00:18:11.99
we understand that Jesus
died, not because of your sin;
00:18:12.02\00:18:16.26
He died because of my sin.
00:18:16.29\00:18:17.96
So, I'm responsible for
the death of the Son of God,
00:18:17.99\00:18:21.00
and surely that ought
to motivate me somehow
00:18:21.03\00:18:23.50
to exercise forgiveness.
00:18:23.53\00:18:25.47
Jesus said, didn't He,
"Father, forgive them."
00:18:25.50\00:18:30.17
"Father, forgive them."
00:18:30.21\00:18:31.77
As a minister of the gospel,
00:18:31.81\00:18:33.68
what does that
example of forgiveness
00:18:33.71\00:18:35.64
exercised or demonstrated
by Jesus mean to you,
00:18:35.68\00:18:38.15
and how do you share that
and relate that to others?
00:18:38.18\00:18:41.78
>>Pastor Thompson:
It means a lot to me,
00:18:41.82\00:18:43.59
'cause first of all, the pain
and the suffering that He took.
00:18:43.62\00:18:48.59
I mean, He, He was, He, He was
beaten as He walked to Calvary.
00:18:48.62\00:18:54.30
You know, He, He,
they, they took a whip with,
00:18:54.30\00:18:57.87
tied with bones and,
and, and, and like glass,
00:18:57.90\00:19:01.40
like metal on the
end of the tips of it,
00:19:01.44\00:19:03.54
just tore Him, ripped His body.
00:19:03.57\00:19:05.51
Then they put crowns
of thorns on His head.
00:19:05.54\00:19:07.24
Then they took, set the
spear in His side, you know,
00:19:07.28\00:19:10.48
where the blood and the water
surrounding His, His heart,
00:19:10.51\00:19:14.25
you know, just
came down His body.
00:19:14.28\00:19:16.25
And then, they nailed Him
to the cross, hands and feet.
00:19:16.28\00:19:20.46
I mean, that's
real pain and suffering.
00:19:20.49\00:19:22.92
But He didn't have to do
it. He did it for you and me.
00:19:22.96\00:19:26.19
And He said,
"Father, forgive them."
00:19:26.23\00:19:29.13
So, if He can do all that
for me and do all that for you,
00:19:29.16\00:19:35.10
then we should be able
to forgive someone who does,
00:19:35.14\00:19:38.11
who's done
something so small to us.
00:19:38.14\00:19:42.78
You know, I mean,
00:19:42.81\00:19:45.61
for God's sake, you
know, forgive that person.
00:19:45.65\00:19:48.92
>>John: "Called to Forgive."
00:19:48.95\00:19:50.89
If anybody knows
something about forgiveness,
00:19:50.92\00:19:53.22
it's Pastor Anthony Thompson.
00:19:53.25\00:19:54.56
We'll have a little
more in just a moment.
00:19:54.59\00:19:56.59
¤[music]¤
00:19:56.62\00:20:02.70
>>Announcer: We
hear it all the time:
00:20:05.77\00:20:07.70
God is
all-powerful, and God is love.
00:20:07.74\00:20:10.54
But if God is so
powerful and loving,
00:20:10.57\00:20:12.77
why is there so much suffering?
00:20:12.81\00:20:14.91
Discover what the
Bible says on the subject
00:20:14.94\00:20:16.91
by requesting
today's free offer,
00:20:16.95\00:20:18.75
"Why Does God Allow Suffering?"
00:20:18.78\00:20:20.55
It's absolutely free.
00:20:20.58\00:20:22.15
Just call 800-253-3000,
00:20:22.18\00:20:25.62
800-253-3000,
00:20:25.65\00:20:28.66
or write to the
address on your screen.
00:20:28.69\00:20:30.33
You can also make
your request online
00:20:30.36\00:20:31.83
at iiwoffer.com.
00:20:31.86\00:20:34.23
>>John Bradshaw: It was
like a ticking time bomb
00:20:35.96\00:20:38.10
just waiting to explode.
00:20:38.13\00:20:39.93
And when it did, a
city was plunged into chaos.
00:20:39.97\00:20:43.71
A town was completely destroyed,
00:20:43.74\00:20:46.04
more than 300
people were left dead,
00:20:46.07\00:20:48.94
and thousands left homeless.
00:20:48.98\00:20:51.31
It remains one of the
nation's least-known atrocities,
00:20:51.35\00:20:54.75
yet it was one of the
most destructive race riots
00:20:54.78\00:20:57.55
in United States history.
00:20:57.59\00:20:58.95
¤[harmonica music]¤
00:20:58.99\00:21:00.32
Join It Is Written on
location in Tulsa, Oklahoma,
00:21:00.36\00:21:03.96
for "Black Wall Street"
00:21:03.99\00:21:06.09
as we look at
the problem of evil.
00:21:06.13\00:21:09.13
We'll investigate the
destruction of a community
00:21:09.16\00:21:11.73
and ask some
searching questions.
00:21:11.77\00:21:13.70
¤[somber music]¤
How can this happen?
00:21:13.74\00:21:15.84
And who would do such a thing?
00:21:15.87\00:21:17.74
How do good people
commit truly wicked acts?
00:21:17.77\00:21:21.08
"Black Wall Street"
will take you there,
00:21:21.11\00:21:23.08
to the very streets
where evil reared its ugly head
00:21:23.11\00:21:26.35
in a way not often seen.
00:21:26.38\00:21:28.45
Don't miss "Black Wall
Street" on It Is Written TV.
00:21:28.48\00:21:33.49
>>John Bradshaw: Thanks for
joining me on It Is Written.
00:21:36.56\00:21:39.23
As we talk about
forgiveness, let me ask you.
00:21:39.26\00:21:41.60
You preach about it;
you've written about it.
00:21:41.63\00:21:43.26
Forgiveness in the
Bible, where do we see it?
00:21:43.30\00:21:45.77
>>Pastor Anthony
Thompson: The two servants.
00:21:45.80\00:21:47.64
There was a servant
who owed his, his master.
00:21:47.67\00:21:51.04
In today's money, it'd be
like a million or more dollars.
00:21:51.07\00:21:53.84
And the master was ready to
collect, and the servant said,
00:21:53.88\00:21:57.01
"Well, you know,
Lord, I don't have it."
00:21:57.05\00:21:59.48
You know, and he begged
for mercy, you know, said,
00:21:59.51\00:22:01.08
"Hey, look, I'll
pay you later, you know.
00:22:01.12\00:22:03.18
I'll pay you as soon as I can."
00:22:03.22\00:22:05.05
He said, "But
just have mercy on me."
00:22:05.09\00:22:07.42
And he had mercy on him.
00:22:07.46\00:22:08.46
And he
relinquished his servant's debt.
00:22:08.49\00:22:11.76
I mean, he didn't
even have to pay him back.
00:22:11.79\00:22:13.26
In other words, he forgave him.
00:22:13.29\00:22:15.30
And then that same servant,
he was master to a servant,
00:22:15.33\00:22:19.00
and his servant owed
him maybe a few bucks.
00:22:19.03\00:22:21.57
And he told the man,
00:22:21.60\00:22:22.80
"I'm going to throw you
in jail until you pay me."
00:22:22.84\00:22:26.17
Now, the
ridiculous part is that,
00:22:26.21\00:22:27.81
well, while he's in
jail, he can't pay him.
00:22:27.84\00:22:30.65
So it means that he
was never going to pay him,
00:22:30.68\00:22:32.21
so he was always
going to be in jail.
00:22:32.25\00:22:35.02
Then the master who
forgave him found out
00:22:35.05\00:22:39.15
that he had thrown his servant
into jail, and then he said,
00:22:39.19\00:22:42.26
"You know, I forgave you,
00:22:42.29\00:22:43.63
and you could not
forgive your servant?"
00:22:43.66\00:22:45.83
He says, "So now I'm
going to throw you in jail,
00:22:45.86\00:22:48.26
and you're going to
stay there, you know,
00:22:48.30\00:22:49.80
until you can pay me back."
00:22:49.83\00:22:51.50
Meaning that, you
know, it was over for him.
00:22:51.53\00:22:54.87
And so, the story is
that, you know, God is saying,
00:22:54.90\00:23:00.21
"If you want me to forgive you,
00:23:00.24\00:23:03.21
then you have to forgive
the person who did you wrong."
00:23:03.24\00:23:06.28
>>John: Forgiveness is so
fundamental to the gospel,
00:23:06.31\00:23:08.48
but we wrestle with it.
00:23:08.52\00:23:09.45
Forgiveness
sometimes seems so very hard,
00:23:09.48\00:23:11.89
but as you know,
unforgiveness is much harder.
00:23:11.92\00:23:15.72
>>Pastor Thompson: Much harder.
00:23:15.76\00:23:17.09
>>John: Tell me
about your wife, Myra.
00:23:17.13\00:23:18.56
What was she like?
00:23:18.59\00:23:19.66
>>Pastor Thompson: Mmm.
Myra was a beautiful woman.
00:23:19.69\00:23:21.96
Uh, very extraordinary
woman, very loving.
00:23:22.00\00:23:24.67
She wasn't a
stranger to anybody.
00:23:24.70\00:23:27.00
She was a giver.
00:23:27.04\00:23:28.34
Everybody loved Myra.
00:23:28.37\00:23:29.94
Myra loved everybody.
00:23:29.97\00:23:31.34
>>John: What do you
think she'd say to somebody
00:23:31.37\00:23:32.81
wrestling with a decision
to forgive or otherwise?
00:23:32.84\00:23:36.64
>>Pastor Thompson:
Mmm. She would tell them,
00:23:36.68\00:23:40.52
"I don't know why
you drank that poison,
00:23:40.55\00:23:42.45
think it's going to
kill somebody else."
00:23:42.48\00:23:44.19
[laughs]
00:23:44.22\00:23:45.75
"You need to go
ahead and forgive them."
00:23:45.79\00:23:47.56
You know, you just need
to go ahead and forgive them.
00:23:47.59\00:23:50.46
Because that, you, you,
00:23:50.49\00:23:53.29
you drinking the poison not
going to kill them, you know.
00:23:53.33\00:23:55.96
You holding hate in your
heart or anger in your heart,
00:23:56.00\00:23:58.67
that's not going to
do anything to them.
00:23:58.70\00:24:00.50
It's going to make
your life miserable.
00:24:00.54\00:24:01.80
You're going to die
from the poison, not them.
00:24:01.84\00:24:04.54
So, don't drink
the poison. Forgive.
00:24:04.57\00:24:08.31
>>John: Thanks so very much.
00:24:08.34\00:24:09.31
I appreciate you
taking your time.
00:24:09.34\00:24:10.31
>>Pastor Thompson:
Amen. God bless you.
00:24:10.35\00:24:11.45
>>John: God bless you.
00:24:11.48\00:24:12.65
>>Pastor Thompson: Thank
you for taking the time to come.
00:24:12.68\00:24:13.62
>>John: Sure.
00:24:13.65\00:24:14.42
>>Pastor
Thompson: I appreciate it.
00:24:14.45\00:24:14.92
>>John: Thank you.
00:24:14.95\00:24:16.05
¤[soft music]¤
00:24:16.08\00:24:17.29
What we know is that life
is going to challenge you.
00:24:17.32\00:24:19.99
Most of the time, those
challenges, relatively small.
00:24:20.02\00:24:23.56
Sometimes big,
occasionally massive.
00:24:23.59\00:24:26.80
The question is,
how do you respond?
00:24:26.83\00:24:29.26
In this case, hate
would serve no purpose.
00:24:29.30\00:24:32.20
It's certainly not
going to bring anyone back.
00:24:32.23\00:24:35.00
A man has been sentenced to die.
00:24:35.04\00:24:36.77
His execution
won't raise the dead.
00:24:36.81\00:24:40.08
The living will still
have to go on through life
00:24:40.11\00:24:42.71
without people
that they love the most.
00:24:42.74\00:24:46.21
Regardless of the wrong,
00:24:46.25\00:24:47.85
irrespective of the issue
involved, forgiveness matters.
00:24:47.88\00:24:51.49
Forgiveness sets
the forgiver free.
00:24:51.52\00:24:53.32
Forgiveness is God's way.
00:24:53.36\00:24:55.62
Now, I understand; sometimes the
pain just seems way too great.
00:24:55.66\00:24:59.76
Sometimes the wrong
just seems way too wrong.
00:24:59.79\00:25:02.46
But forgiveness was given by God
so that you can be made whole.
00:25:02.50\00:25:07.77
Anthony Thompson shows us that
we don't have to go through life
00:25:07.80\00:25:10.44
hanging on to anger and hate.
00:25:10.47\00:25:13.17
We don't have to carry with
us the weight of unforgiveness.
00:25:13.21\00:25:17.78
So how's that
working out for you?
00:25:17.81\00:25:19.75
It seems that most everybody
has something to forgive.
00:25:19.78\00:25:24.39
Which might just
mean that most everybody
00:25:24.42\00:25:26.29
is hanging on to something
that they might ought to let go.
00:25:26.32\00:25:29.49
Most people are far less
whole than they ought to be
00:25:29.52\00:25:32.56
simply because they're
choosing not to forgive.
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Think about the big picture.
00:25:36.80\00:25:38.53
As sinners, God has forgiven
us. God has forgiven us so much.
00:25:38.57\00:25:43.34
Jesus died for our sins,
and when we confess our sins,
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the Bible says,
00:25:47.18\00:25:48.54
"He is faithful and
just to forgive us our sins."
00:25:48.58\00:25:52.15
Further, "to cleanse us
from all unrighteousness."
00:25:52.18\00:25:56.48
After what God has done for you,
00:25:56.52\00:25:59.95
can you extend that
same forgiveness to another?
00:26:00.06\00:26:03.29
And through exercising
the kind of forgiveness
00:26:03.32\00:26:06.36
that God has
exercised towards you,
00:26:06.39\00:26:09.36
you can experience the peace
00:26:09.40\00:26:11.40
that Anthony
Thompson experiences,
00:26:11.43\00:26:14.10
the peace that God wants
you to have now and forever.
00:26:14.14\00:26:19.81
>>John: Thank you for
remembering that It Is Written
00:26:20.64\00:26:22.54
exists because of the kindness
of people just like you.
00:26:22.58\00:26:26.01
To support this international
life-changing ministry,
00:26:26.05\00:26:29.15
please call us
now at 800-253-3000.
00:26:29.18\00:26:33.42
You can send your
tax-deductible gift
00:26:33.46\00:26:34.92
to the address on your screen,
00:26:34.96\00:26:36.29
or you can visit us
online at itiswritten.com.
00:26:36.32\00:26:40.30
Thank you for your prayers
and for your financial support.
00:26:40.33\00:26:43.03
Our number
again is 800-253-3000,
00:26:43.06\00:26:47.27
or you can visit us
online at itiswritten.com.
00:26:47.30\00:26:50.31
>>John Bradshaw: Let
me pray with you now.
00:26:51.31\00:26:53.04
Father in heaven, we
thank You in Jesus' name
00:26:53.07\00:26:54.94
that You are a God
of great forgiveness.
00:26:54.98\00:26:57.35
We thank You for the gift of
forgiveness that You give to us.
00:26:57.38\00:27:00.12
I ask that right now as someone
is wrestling with a choice
00:27:00.15\00:27:03.62
to forgive or otherwise,
impress that heart to forgive.
00:27:03.65\00:27:07.22
Show that person
the healthy way forward.
00:27:07.26\00:27:09.92
Friend, is that you?
00:27:09.96\00:27:10.99
Would you open your
heart up to God now and say,
00:27:11.03\00:27:12.63
"God, give me that
grace to forgive another,"
00:27:12.66\00:27:14.30
or "God, I choose to forgive"?
00:27:14.36\00:27:16.46
You can choose to forgive.
00:27:16.50\00:27:18.37
Don't consult your feelings.
00:27:18.40\00:27:20.50
Choose to forgive and
expect that God will take care
00:27:20.54\00:27:23.27
of the feelings in
the fullness of time.
00:27:23.30\00:27:25.84
Thank You, Lord,
that You forgive us,
00:27:25.87\00:27:27.98
that Your
forgiveness is full and free.
00:27:28.01\00:27:31.05
Give in our lives the
ability to forgive others.
00:27:31.08\00:27:35.92
We pray, we
thank You, we claim it,
00:27:35.95\00:27:38.32
and we believe, in Jesus' name.
00:27:38.35\00:27:41.79
Amen.
00:27:41.82\00:27:43.16
Thanks so much for joining me.
00:27:43.19\00:27:44.53
Looking forward to
seeing you again next time.
00:27:44.56\00:27:46.16
Until then, remember:
00:27:46.19\00:27:48.33
"It is written, 'Man
shall not live by bread alone,
00:27:48.36\00:27:51.77
but by every word that proceeds
from the mouth of God.'"
00:27:51.80\00:27:56.94
¤[theme music]¤
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