>>John Bradshaw:
This is It Is Written.
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I'm John Bradshaw.
Thanks for joining me.
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Everybody has
dreams, and we like to think
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that our dreams come
true, but they don't always.
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What happens when you have
dreams, big dreams, life goals,
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and those dreams come
crashing down around you?
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And when they do, what then?
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Is God able to give back
to you what was taken away?
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My special guest
today is Juliet Van Heerden.
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She is an
author, public speaker.
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She is a teacher and
the wife of a pastor.
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Juliet's story is a story
experienced by many people
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all around the world.
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Juliet, thanks for joining
me today and sharing your story.
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I appreciate you being here.
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>>Juliet Van Heerden:
Thank you for the invitation.
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>>John: Hey, let's go
back to about where you think
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the beginning is.
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Where does your story--
it's a fascinating story;
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it's a moving story,
a very powerful story,
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and a story that's
going to impact a lot of lives
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as you share it.
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So where does this story begin?
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>>Juliet: I grew up in
a Christian, um, family,
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Christian home.
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My mom is a very, um,
devout Christian woman.
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But I am the product of divorce,
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and my parents
divorced when I was four.
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And then when I was 14,
um, there was another divorce.
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And so I was a child
who experienced the feelings
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of abandonment and the
idea that happily ever after
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doesn't always
turn out that way.
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And I made a vow
to myself as a child
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that I would never get divorced.
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And I didn't want that legacy,
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and that was a
promise that I made to myself
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and really ended up
trying very hard to keep.
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>>John: So, as you
were journeying through life
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towards the fulfillment
of all your plans and dreams,
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where did that journey take you?
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>>Juliet: I
graduated from college,
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and I thought that I
was being left behind
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as I was the
bridesmaid in several weddings
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and not the bride.
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And so I feel like probably
I rushed God a little bit
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and pushed ahead and
chose a mate for myself
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that might not
have been the mate
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He would have chosen for me.
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>>John: Walk, walk
through that dynamic with me.
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You got married along the way.
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Tell me how that,
how that came to be.
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Tell me about the circumstances
around your marriage.
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>>Juliet: I ended up making
a decision to marry a person
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that I probably would
not have consciously chosen,
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but sometimes, as a young
person, we'll make a compromise.
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And I tell young
people when I speak to them,
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"Be careful who you date.
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Be careful who you
go on one date with
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because that person
might end up being the person
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you spend the rest
of your life with."
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And I tell my
students, "Do your homework,"
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but I didn't do mine,
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and I did not even
know what questions to ask
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a potential spouse.
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I didn't, um, I
just didn't research.
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I took everything at face value.
I was a very trusting person.
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>>John: I remember
saying to my fiancée,
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"Check me out; do your homework.
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Go and talk to the people who
make up the fabric of my life."
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>>Juliet: That's right.
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>>John: I was scared to
death when she actually did.
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>>Juliet:
[Laughs] Ah, but it's good.
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>>John: When she did
that and then said "I do"
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was one of the biggest
surprises of my life, but...
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So that's the sort of thing
you're talking about, right?
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>>Juliet: Mm-hm. Accountability.
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>>John: Yeah.
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So how do you marry someone
without really knowing them?
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You did.
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>>Juliet: Right. Well, I mean,
you get caught up in the moment.
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You, you believe a person.
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You take, you take
what you see at this moment,
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and you don't realize
that there's something
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behind what you see.
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So, I mean, I just felt,
I felt excited that someone
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was interested in me,
that they, um, enjoyed
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some of the same
things that I enjoyed.
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Yes, we had a little bit
different, um, background,
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but I was an optimist.
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I thought that
whatever wasn't just right
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I could make right.
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And, um, I recently heard a
sermon where, uh, someone said
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women need, need to not
think of men as projects,
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and men need to not
think of women as possessions.
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And, um, I think
I, I like a project,
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and so that might
have been part of it, um,
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a challenge that, you know, you
can, you can change a person.
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>>John: So in your
experience you discovered
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you can't change a person?
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>>Juliet: No.
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>>John: Did you try?
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>>Juliet: Oh, yes.
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>>John: How did you try?
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>>Juliet: Mm. [Laughs
ruefully] I manipulated.
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I, I tried to
control the person.
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I tried to, um,
force them into my mold.
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And you can't take a
person who is who they are
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and try to make them someone
that you want them to be.
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But when I realized
things weren't exactly,
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um, happily ever after for me,
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I, I was really trying very hard
to make this person fit into,
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into what I thought was the mold
for a good Christian husband.
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>>John: So you've got to
accept some imperfections,
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some limitations--right?--
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>>Juliet: Of course.
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>>John: ...in a person.
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But there are some
things you should never accept
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and think that you're
going to be able to change.
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How do we know
where that line is?
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>>Juliet: Well,
knowing ourselves is important,
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you know, knowing, knowing
what I can live with and what I,
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what I can't,
because no one's perfect.
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I mean, I wasn't a perfect,
um, spouse or a perfect person,
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either, and I
didn't, um, I really just,
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I wasn't sure what to do
with the things that I saw
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that weren't right,
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but I think honesty is like
a core foundational, uh, piece.
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If, if we have a question
about a person's integrity
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or about their honesty,
or if we catch them in a lie
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or something like that, then
we really need to not brush--
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I would say that to any woman--
don't brush that under the rug.
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Really have your radar up.
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If you get that
feeling like something's fishy,
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something's not right,
follow through with that.
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Don't ignore that.
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Because if we are, if we
are dealing with a person
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who's not honest, then we're
going to have serious problems.
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>>John: Now, if
you detect dishonesty
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before you walk down the aisle?
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>>Juliet: Run.
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>>John: If you detect it
after you walk down the aisle,
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what do we do then?
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>>Juliet: Pray.
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[Laughs ruefully]
It's--I experienced it.
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I experienced it, shortly
after I walked down the aisle.
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Um, I was, I was able to
catch the person in the lie.
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And it was devastating.
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And I really
didn't know what to do.
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I wanted to
undo what I had done,
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but remember the vow
that I made to myself:
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I'm never going to get divorced.
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So what do I do?
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Well, then you kick into
this "I can change this person.
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I can fix this person."
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Uh, and your prayers become all
about "God change this person,"
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and you forget that
you're also a broken person
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in need of a Savior.
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>>John: You say the
thing to do is to pray.
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>>Juliet: Yes.
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>>John: But I'm
certain you would advocate
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some other concrete steps.
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Who do you talk to?
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I know it will, I know it
will depend on what your spouse
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is involved in.
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>>Juliet: What's
going on, of course.
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>>John: But who are the
type of people you can turn to
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when you're in a marriage
and you think to yourself,
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"Oh, my goodness, this is
not what I signed up for"?
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>>Juliet: No, I would definitely
find a trusted, um, friend,
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counselor.
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Um, I advocate for recovery
groups and a support system
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where, where we
can be transparent
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about what's really going on.
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I, I wish that I had been.
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If I had been honest
and transparent and listened
00:08:21.93\00:08:24.93
to godly counsel, I might have
made some different decisions,
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but I just walled up and
kept everything close to me.
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>>John: How do you advise
a young woman or a young man
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who is staring the rest of
his or her life in the face
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and now realizing, uh-oh.
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How do they go about extricating
themselves from that?
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>>Juliet: Taking a
break from the intensity,
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the emotional
intensity of what's going on,
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and sometimes if things are
wrong, um, it's more intense.
00:08:52.13\00:08:55.50
There will be pressure from a
person to make a quick decision:
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"Let's just do this."
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You know, that's when you need
to raise your eyebrow and go,
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"Wait a second. We don't
need to rush this thing."
00:09:02.74\00:09:05.51
If it's really a solid
thing and a good thing,
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it will still be there.
00:09:08.08\00:09:09.61
But give yourself
a moment to breathe,
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to pray, to listen
to people you trust,
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and, um, and come back and say,
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"Is this, is this true? Or
is this emotion I'm riding?"
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>>John: In just a
moment, when we come back,
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I wanna, I want to walk with
you through your experience,
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your experience
that led to divorce,
00:09:27.83\00:09:29.43
what went wrong, what
might you have done better,
00:09:29.46\00:09:32.70
and, uh, in doing so,
your story's going to be a help
00:09:32.73\00:09:35.47
and a blessing to
many other people.
00:09:35.50\00:09:37.44
We'll be right back
with my conversation
00:09:37.47\00:09:39.54
with Juliet Van
Heerden in just a moment.
00:09:39.57\00:09:41.94
¤[Music]¤
00:09:41.98\00:09:49.65
>>Announcer: Modern life makes
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¤[Soft piano music]¤
00:10:21.45\00:10:26.25
>>Man 1: What does the
Bible say about astrology?
00:10:26.29\00:10:28.69
>>Man 2: Why do bad
things happen to good people?
00:10:33.16\00:10:36.40
>>Girl: What color is Jesus?
00:10:41.14\00:10:44.31
>>John Bradshaw: If
you have a question,
00:10:44.34\00:10:45.31
we'd love to find an answer
00:10:45.34\00:10:46.61
for you from the Bible.
00:10:46.64\00:10:48.14
Line Upon Line
00:10:48.18\00:10:48.98
from It Is Written TV.
00:10:49.01\00:10:51.01
>>John Bradshaw:
Thanks for joining me today
00:10:51.78\00:10:53.42
on It Is Written.
00:10:53.45\00:10:54.62
I'm John Bradshaw, and my
guest is public speaker, author,
00:10:54.65\00:10:58.29
and teacher Juliet Van Heerden.
00:10:58.32\00:11:01.29
Juliet, let's go back
to-- we, we spoke to the issues
00:11:01.32\00:11:05.36
surrounding about, surrounding
marriages and mistakes
00:11:05.39\00:11:08.73
and who to speak
to and when and so on,
00:11:08.76\00:11:10.53
but let's talk
about your experience.
00:11:10.57\00:11:12.40
You walk down the
aisle. You said "I do."
00:11:12.43\00:11:14.30
You were the
happiest girl in the world.
00:11:14.34\00:11:16.00
>>Juliet Van Heerden: I was.
00:11:16.04\00:11:17.24
And I, I thought that I was
doing right because I did marry
00:11:17.27\00:11:20.78
someone who was a Christian,
and, um, who had promised
00:11:20.81\00:11:25.71
to come to church,
and we did pray together.
00:11:25.75\00:11:29.35
So there were, there were a
lot of things that were positive
00:11:29.38\00:11:32.29
and right and good,
00:11:32.32\00:11:33.46
and we had a relationship
that I felt was real.
00:11:33.49\00:11:38.29
And, um, then I started noticing
that things were not always
00:11:38.33\00:11:44.87
what they seemed to be.
00:11:44.90\00:11:46.87
>>John: What did you
notice that really bothered you?
00:11:46.90\00:11:49.10
>>Juliet: I call him "John."
00:11:49.14\00:11:50.44
It's not his real name,
but we'll call him "John"
00:11:50.47\00:11:52.07
because I want him to
be like a real person,
00:11:52.11\00:11:54.48
and, um, I'm definitely
not wanting to vilify him
00:11:54.51\00:11:58.31
as a person.
00:11:58.35\00:11:58.98
>>John: Sure.
00:11:59.01\00:11:59.95
>>Juliet: He was,
you know, a human being.
00:12:00.05\00:12:01.08
But when, when money
wasn't accounted for,
00:12:01.12\00:12:06.92
when, uh, things didn't
add up, stories didn't add up.
00:12:06.96\00:12:13.26
Uh, we started
getting into debt.
00:12:13.29\00:12:15.76
He would have unexplained
illness a lot of times.
00:12:15.80\00:12:19.57
A lot of accidents
would happen to him.
00:12:19.60\00:12:22.14
He worked in construction.
00:12:22.17\00:12:24.14
And sometimes weird things
would happen that, you know,
00:12:24.17\00:12:28.81
the staple gun went
through the hand, or--
00:12:28.84\00:12:31.58
[Laughs] you know,
just, just too many accidents.
00:12:31.61\00:12:35.52
>>John: And what was it?
00:12:35.55\00:12:36.89
>>Juliet: It was cocaine.
00:12:36.92\00:12:39.42
>>John: Let me ask this first,
00:12:39.45\00:12:40.49
and then I'll ask
for your response.
00:12:40.52\00:12:41.62
When did you realize you
were married to a drug addict?
00:12:41.66\00:12:44.99
>>Juliet: Yeah, it
was basically kind of
00:12:45.03\00:12:47.13
all around the same time.
00:12:47.13\00:12:48.06
>>John: Yeah.
00:12:48.10\00:12:49.26
>>Juliet: But he was so addicted
by that time that he was,
00:12:49.30\00:12:51.67
like it was kind of life or
death at that point in time.
00:12:51.70\00:12:55.04
And I had
reached out to someone,
00:12:55.07\00:12:57.37
to a substance-abuse
counselor, and they said,
00:12:57.41\00:12:59.71
"Look, it's going to be
the cemetery or the rehab.
00:12:59.74\00:13:03.35
Your choice."
00:13:03.38\00:13:04.25
That's what they said to him.
00:13:04.28\00:13:05.85
>>John: What did he choose?
00:13:05.88\00:13:06.98
>>Juliet: He chose the rehab.
00:13:07.02\00:13:07.98
>>John: How did it go?
00:13:08.02\00:13:09.15
>>Juliet: I
thought it went great.
00:13:09.18\00:13:10.99
[Laughs] I
thought it went great.
00:13:11.02\00:13:13.69
He checked in for, for 28
days, and he did stay clean.
00:13:13.72\00:13:17.96
>>John: So things turned around?
00:13:17.99\00:13:19.79
>>Juliet: Mm-hm.
00:13:19.83\00:13:20.46
>>John: For how long?
00:13:20.50\00:13:21.10
>>Juliet: For a while.
00:13:21.13\00:13:22.10
>>John: Yeah?
00:13:22.13\00:13:22.76
>>Juliet: For a while. Um...
00:13:22.80\00:13:24.37
>>John: And how did you notice?
00:13:24.40\00:13:25.33
>>Juliet: I...
00:13:25.37\00:13:26.27
>>John: How did you
notice that things were
00:13:26.30\00:13:27.44
no longer going well?
00:13:27.47\00:13:28.24
>>Juliet: Oh, man, I never knew.
00:13:28.27\00:13:29.47
Like, it was, I never knew.
00:13:29.50\00:13:30.47
Even those first
six years of marriage,
00:13:30.51\00:13:32.14
like, sometimes he was
using, sometimes he wasn't;
00:13:32.17\00:13:34.04
sometimes he was
clean; sometimes he wasn't.
00:13:34.08\00:13:35.68
I, I never knew where he was
00:13:35.71\00:13:38.15
because I think he didn't want
to be the slave to this, either.
00:13:38.18\00:13:41.45
>>John: What would he
be like when he relapsed?
00:13:41.48\00:13:43.32
How would that affect him
emotionally and physically?
00:13:43.35\00:13:46.76
>>Juliet: Well, once
he got clean and sober,
00:13:46.79\00:13:50.96
he was back to normal,
and we would just try to go on
00:13:50.99\00:13:53.90
with life, you know,
back to church, back to work,
00:13:53.93\00:13:56.70
back to, you know, tried to
have some semblance of normalcy
00:13:56.73\00:13:59.73
in our marriage.
00:13:59.77\00:14:00.74
And, um, and then
when he would relapse,
00:14:00.77\00:14:04.34
he would just disappear.
00:14:04.37\00:14:05.27
He would
disappear, sometimes for days,
00:14:05.31\00:14:07.18
usually on a Friday
because that's payday,
00:14:07.21\00:14:09.78
and, um, you know, come
home when the money was gone.
00:14:09.81\00:14:13.38
>>John: You've
said you like a project,
00:14:13.42\00:14:14.72
and you like to fix things.
00:14:14.75\00:14:15.75
>>Juliet: Yes.
00:14:15.78\00:14:16.69
>>John: So did you
get about fixing him?
00:14:16.72\00:14:17.92
>>Juliet: Yes.
00:14:17.95\00:14:19.05
>>John: Did you think,
"Okay, we're gonna fix this"?
00:14:19.09\00:14:20.52
How did you endeavor to fix it?
00:14:20.56\00:14:21.92
>>Juliet: So, I was
afraid that he was gonna die.
00:14:21.96\00:14:23.93
I was afraid
that he was gonna OD.
00:14:23.96\00:14:25.83
I was afraid that
someone would find out
00:14:25.86\00:14:27.93
about our dirty family secret.
00:14:27.96\00:14:29.73
And so I tried to
control everything.
00:14:29.76\00:14:31.77
I, I tried to
control every penny.
00:14:31.80\00:14:33.94
You, you have your boss
write the paycheck to me.
00:14:33.97\00:14:36.77
I'm going to
control the finances,
00:14:36.81\00:14:38.91
and I'll give you an
allowance, just what you need.
00:14:38.94\00:14:41.61
But that was the
way that I coped.
00:14:41.64\00:14:44.01
Um, crack down and control.
00:14:44.05\00:14:45.75
Well, then you're not a spouse;
00:14:45.78\00:14:47.45
you're, you're a
mother, a bad one,
00:14:47.48\00:14:49.95
[Laughs] you know.
00:14:49.98\00:14:51.55
>>John: And, and evidently
that's not what you planned.
00:14:51.59\00:14:54.32
>>Juliet: No.
00:14:54.36\00:14:55.19
>>John: What was
that doing to you?
00:14:55.22\00:14:56.42
>>Juliet: No. It
was tearing me up.
00:14:56.46\00:14:57.76
I was, I was sick. I had ulcers.
00:14:57.79\00:15:00.16
I was, um,
constantly stressed out.
00:15:00.20\00:15:03.47
I was... The controlling
thing just didn't work.
00:15:03.50\00:15:08.47
But I couldn't
stop being controlling.
00:15:08.50\00:15:11.14
>>John: How many people--I'm
getting ahead of myself here--
00:15:11.17\00:15:14.08
how common is this in church?
00:15:14.11\00:15:18.55
Not just in society--in church,
for families to be dealing
00:15:18.58\00:15:21.92
with someone who's
battling addiction issues--
00:15:21.95\00:15:24.85
how common?
00:15:24.89\00:15:25.99
>>Juliet: I would venture
to say every family has someone
00:15:26.02\00:15:31.49
that they love or care about
who's addicted to something,
00:15:31.53\00:15:35.26
either chemical
dependency, um, pornography.
00:15:35.30\00:15:40.14
>>John: As your
husband was descending
00:15:40.17\00:15:43.24
into self-destruction,
00:15:43.27\00:15:45.44
and your marriage
was starting to unravel,
00:15:45.47\00:15:48.08
what was this
doing to you spiritually?
00:15:48.11\00:15:51.58
>>Juliet: I was really
having a spiritual awakening.
00:15:51.61\00:15:54.48
I was, I was learning to
trust God and to love Him
00:15:54.52\00:16:00.32
and to know that He loved me.
00:16:00.36\00:16:01.89
I, it makes me just emotional
just thinking about how God
00:16:01.92\00:16:06.93
opened my eyes
to His love for me.
00:16:06.96\00:16:08.60
And I grew up
knowing about God's love,
00:16:08.63\00:16:11.23
singing "Jesus
loves me, this I know."
00:16:11.27\00:16:14.24
I knew what God's Word said,
00:16:14.27\00:16:16.40
but through that experience
I learned to trust Him.
00:16:16.44\00:16:20.31
>>John: See, I can
imagine a person saying,
00:16:20.34\00:16:22.61
"Spiritually I was devastated,
00:16:22.64\00:16:24.08
and I felt like I was a
million miles from God,"
00:16:24.11\00:16:26.15
and I know that
happens to people.
00:16:26.18\00:16:27.48
It didn't happen to you.
00:16:27.52\00:16:28.95
What was going on
that this experience
00:16:28.98\00:16:31.05
drew you closer to God?
00:16:31.09\00:16:33.49
This, I think is
a, is a very key point
00:16:33.52\00:16:36.09
because a lot of people
end up adrift and without hope.
00:16:36.12\00:16:39.33
>>Juliet: Right.
00:16:39.36\00:16:40.40
>>John: What was it
about you or your experience
00:16:40.43\00:16:42.30
or your upbringing
or your faith community
00:16:42.33\00:16:44.60
that saw this experience
draw you closer to God?
00:16:44.63\00:16:48.94
What made the difference?
00:16:48.97\00:16:50.31
>>Juliet: You know, I
should have spoken with others,
00:16:50.34\00:16:52.77
but I didn't.
00:16:52.81\00:16:53.71
And so God was who I talked to,
00:16:53.74\00:16:55.78
and I talked to Him, like
when I was driving to school,
00:16:55.81\00:16:58.61
I would have to put myself
together because to be able
00:16:58.65\00:17:01.65
to smile and be sweet
to first grade children,
00:17:01.68\00:17:04.55
you know, you have to,
00:17:04.59\00:17:05.72
you have to get it together
before you get to school.
00:17:05.75\00:17:07.82
And so that was my time
00:17:07.86\00:17:09.02
where I would just pour my
heart out to God as I'm driving.
00:17:09.06\00:17:11.43
Like, "Lord, I, I've got work to
do today. I need You to help me.
00:17:11.46\00:17:14.93
[Voice quavers] Help me
focus on loving these kids."
00:17:14.96\00:17:17.83
And He would do it.
00:17:17.87\00:17:19.83
Like, I could just feel
the peace of God come over me,
00:17:19.87\00:17:22.77
and I could do my
work; I could do my job.
00:17:22.80\00:17:24.91
I could, I could love
on the kids at school.
00:17:24.94\00:17:28.04
And, and when I poured
my heart out to the Lord,
00:17:28.08\00:17:30.75
He came, and He
was very real to me.
00:17:30.78\00:17:35.25
>>John: So where would
you be now, do you think,
00:17:35.28\00:17:37.45
if you didn't
have God to lean on?
00:17:37.49\00:17:39.59
>>Juliet: I would have
driven my car off a bridge
00:17:39.62\00:17:41.96
or slit my wrists or
done something awful.
00:17:41.99\00:17:44.93
>>John: And
something kept you from that?
00:17:44.96\00:17:47.00
>>Juliet: Yes.
00:17:47.03\00:17:47.86
I didn't, I
didn't want to hurt Him.
00:17:47.86\00:17:49.86
I didn't want to
hurt my friend God.
00:17:49.90\00:17:52.63
And I believe that
you're not ever alone.
00:17:52.67\00:17:56.10
We are never alone.
00:17:56.14\00:17:57.67
>>John: We're going to talk
about that in just a moment.
00:17:57.71\00:17:59.54
He's always there,
and He's always for you.
00:17:59.57\00:18:03.88
More of my conversation
with Juliet Van Heerden
00:18:03.91\00:18:06.58
in just a moment.
00:18:06.61\00:18:07.98
¤[Music]¤
00:18:08.02\00:18:14.96
>>John: Thank
you for remembering
00:18:16.93\00:18:17.96
that It Is Written exists
00:18:17.99\00:18:19.49
because of the kindness
of people just like you.
00:18:19.53\00:18:22.26
To support this international
life-changing ministry,
00:18:22.30\00:18:25.50
please call us
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00:18:25.53\00:18:29.77
You can send your
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00:18:29.80\00:18:31.24
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00:18:31.27\00:18:32.71
or you can visit us
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00:18:32.74\00:18:36.54
Thank you for your prayers
and for your financial support.
00:18:36.58\00:18:39.38
Our number
again is 800-253-3000,
00:18:39.41\00:18:43.39
or you can visit us
online at itiswritten.com.
00:18:43.42\00:18:46.76
>>John: When a
2,000-ton span on a bridge
00:18:47.76\00:18:50.53
in Melbourne, Australia,
collapsed during construction,
00:18:50.56\00:18:54.00
the damage and loss
of life were devastating.
00:18:54.00\00:18:57.27
When a bridge collapsed
in Tasmania five years later,
00:18:57.30\00:19:00.27
it was another catastrophe that
caused disruption and death.
00:19:00.30\00:19:03.91
So what happens when you fall?
00:19:03.94\00:19:06.27
When sin takes you down?
00:19:06.31\00:19:08.41
When failure shakes
your experience with God?
00:19:08.44\00:19:11.41
Don't miss "Free Fall," brought
to you by It Is Written TV.
00:19:11.45\00:19:15.98
Find out what you can do
when you've fallen again.
00:19:16.02\00:19:19.25
And find out how God
treats those who have strayed,
00:19:19.29\00:19:22.66
wandered, failed, fallen.
00:19:22.69\00:19:26.03
There is hope
when you've messed up.
00:19:26.06\00:19:28.33
There's a future when life
isn't going like it should.
00:19:28.36\00:19:31.47
There's a way forward when
you feel like you've failed God
00:19:31.50\00:19:34.84
or failed others.
00:19:34.87\00:19:36.47
"Free Fall," filmed
on location in Australia.
00:19:36.50\00:19:40.51
Don't miss "Free
Fall" on It Is Written TV.
00:19:40.54\00:19:45.48
>>John Bradshaw:
Thanks for joining me today
00:19:47.78\00:19:49.58
on It Is Written.
00:19:49.62\00:19:51.12
My guest, Juliet Van Heerden, is
sharing her story of addiction,
00:19:51.15\00:19:55.39
codependency, recovery,
00:19:55.42\00:19:57.96
and the miracle of
God's restoration in her life.
00:19:57.99\00:20:01.16
Okay. Your
husband is drug-addicted.
00:20:01.20\00:20:04.87
He's lying; he's sick;
he's in and out of rehab;
00:20:04.90\00:20:08.50
your home has been robbed.
00:20:08.54\00:20:11.61
You were divorced.
00:20:11.64\00:20:13.24
How'd that happen?
00:20:13.27\00:20:14.24
How did you
finally get to the point,
00:20:14.28\00:20:15.98
or how did circumstances
bring you to the place
00:20:16.01\00:20:18.08
where this is over and
it's not getting better?
00:20:18.11\00:20:20.75
>>Juliet Van Heerden: Um,
well, "John" just said to me,
00:20:20.78\00:20:22.98
"I am tired of
living the double life.
00:20:23.02\00:20:25.59
I don't want to be the Christian
husband that you want me to be.
00:20:25.62\00:20:30.63
I want to drink what I
want, smoke what I want,
00:20:30.66\00:20:35.93
watch what I want,
snort what I want."
00:20:35.96\00:20:39.50
And I was able to
walk away feeling relieved.
00:20:39.53\00:20:45.87
>>John: I wanted
to ask you about that.
00:20:45.91\00:20:48.24
When he says, "I'm done."
00:20:48.28\00:20:49.71
>>Juliet: Mm-hm.
00:20:49.74\00:20:50.58
>>John: Was there
pain by that stage?
00:20:50.61\00:20:52.71
You said "relief."
00:20:52.75\00:20:54.52
So, it wasn't as
painful as if he'd said that
00:20:54.55\00:20:58.89
a number of years earlier?
00:20:58.92\00:21:00.36
>>Juliet: I just felt like
I had done my absolute best
00:21:00.39\00:21:04.23
and given it everything
that I could possibly do,
00:21:04.26\00:21:07.03
but a person is free
to make their own choices.
00:21:07.03\00:21:10.07
>>John: Offer a word of
encouragement to somebody
00:21:10.10\00:21:11.97
who might be in the
situation that you were in then,
00:21:12.00\00:21:14.04
and they feel like, "If I don't
hang in here to the grim death,
00:21:14.07\00:21:17.71
then somehow I've let God down."
00:21:17.74\00:21:19.27
How do you know, how do you
know when you've done your best,
00:21:19.31\00:21:22.38
and it's time to let go?
00:21:22.41\00:21:23.88
>>Juliet: Well, I think, I
think the Lord lets us know.
00:21:23.91\00:21:27.22
And sometimes we hang on...
00:21:27.25\00:21:29.75
beyond the point
where God has released us.
00:21:29.78\00:21:33.92
And God--it is not
God's desire for anyone to be
00:21:33.96\00:21:37.93
in an abusive situation.
00:21:37.96\00:21:40.10
And I had a very difficult
time using the word "abuse"
00:21:40.13\00:21:43.26
to describe, um, my marriage.
00:21:43.30\00:21:47.17
But, as I look back, I can say
I was in an abusive marriage.
00:21:47.20\00:21:52.51
I was being financially abused.
00:21:52.54\00:21:54.38
I was being emotionally
neglected, verbally abused.
00:21:54.41\00:21:59.81
And, and so, as I look at that,
I know that's not God's will,
00:21:59.85\00:22:03.75
and that, and that's
not God's plan for us.
00:22:03.79\00:22:05.92
We need to be safe.
00:22:05.95\00:22:07.66
And sometimes God makes
provision for, for people.
00:22:07.69\00:22:12.33
Um, He says He hates divorce.
00:22:12.36\00:22:14.50
Yes, He does because
it's painful and devastating.
00:22:14.56\00:22:18.13
But there is provision.
00:22:18.17\00:22:19.70
There are, there are
times when it's a relief.
00:22:19.73\00:22:23.74
>>John: Back up a few years.
00:22:23.77\00:22:24.74
>>Juliet: Yes.
00:22:24.77\00:22:25.74
>>John: You were
worried that someone might learn
00:22:25.77\00:22:26.61
your dirty little secret.
00:22:26.64\00:22:27.61
Now, years later--
00:22:27.64\00:22:28.91
>>Juliet: Yes.
00:22:28.94\00:22:30.11
>>John: ...the secret's out,
and yet people embraced you.
00:22:30.15\00:22:32.01
>>Juliet: They
embraced me, and they loved me.
00:22:32.05\00:22:33.88
And they loved
"John" through it, too.
00:22:33.92\00:22:35.52
I mean, once we started sharing,
00:22:35.55\00:22:37.59
we found that people embraced
us and loved us through it.
00:22:37.62\00:22:41.46
And it was
beautiful to just be like,
00:22:41.49\00:22:44.83
oh, I don't have to carry
this burden of a secret anymore.
00:22:44.86\00:22:49.46
So, I, I would
encourage people: Please share.
00:22:49.50\00:22:53.20
Find a safe place
and share with somebody.
00:22:53.23\00:22:55.30
Don't hold it.
00:22:55.34\00:22:56.54
>>John: Along the
way, you wrote a book.
00:22:56.57\00:22:58.21
>>Juliet: Yes.
00:22:58.24\00:22:59.04
>>John: "Same
Dress, Different Day."
00:22:59.07\00:23:00.58
>>Juliet: Yes.
00:23:00.61\00:23:01.41
>>John: Why did
you write the book?
00:23:01.44\00:23:03.28
>>Juliet: Believe
me, I didn't want to.
00:23:03.31\00:23:05.21
Um, for, for doing
public speaking now
00:23:05.25\00:23:08.92
and for being a teacher,
I'm actually an introvert,
00:23:08.95\00:23:12.15
and I'm a very private person.
00:23:12.19\00:23:14.22
And that's why I kept my mouth
closed for so long about things.
00:23:14.26\00:23:17.63
I did not want
to write this book.
00:23:17.66\00:23:19.43
I am a writer. I love to write.
00:23:19.46\00:23:21.83
But I was, you know, journaling
and writing for myself,
00:23:21.86\00:23:25.33
never thinking I would
tell my story to other people.
00:23:25.37\00:23:28.44
But the Holy Spirit
just kept on me about this,
00:23:28.47\00:23:30.97
that, that you
need to share this story
00:23:31.01\00:23:33.21
because it will
bring hope to others.
00:23:33.24\00:23:35.11
And as a pastor's wife, I
started hearing the stories
00:23:35.14\00:23:38.08
of people in
church who were suffering,
00:23:38.11\00:23:39.81
families that are suffering
with the same kind of problems
00:23:39.85\00:23:42.62
that I experienced.
00:23:42.65\00:23:44.15
And I really had so
much compassion for them,
00:23:44.19\00:23:46.39
and, and a few
people said to me,
00:23:46.42\00:23:47.92
"You need to share your story.
You need to write your story.
00:23:47.96\00:23:50.39
You need to write your story."
00:23:50.43\00:23:51.53
And I kept putting it off.
00:23:51.56\00:23:53.03
And I knew it would be
difficult because I was happy;
00:23:53.06\00:23:56.16
I was living the
happily ever after.
00:23:56.20\00:23:57.63
Who wants to go back
and think about that stuff?
00:23:57.67\00:23:59.63
And in order to write well, you
need to relive it in your mind.
00:23:59.67\00:24:04.51
But, um, Andre, my husband,
he gave me permission to do it.
00:24:04.54\00:24:08.84
He set me--it was very
gracious of him as a man--
00:24:08.88\00:24:12.38
he gave me permission to go
back and to relive that pain
00:24:12.41\00:24:15.85
and to write about "John"
and to, um, to share my story.
00:24:15.88\00:24:20.69
And it took me about three
years from start to finish,
00:24:20.72\00:24:25.13
um, because it was hard.
00:24:25.16\00:24:26.96
I would write a bit, and
then I'd take a long break.
00:24:27.00\00:24:30.37
But it was published in 2015,
00:24:30.40\00:24:33.07
and the responses
from readers has been...
00:24:33.10\00:24:36.57
[Voice quavers] It
hurts me so much to hear
00:24:36.60\00:24:38.74
what they have to say.
00:24:38.77\00:24:39.81
They say to me,
"You're telling my story."
00:24:39.84\00:24:43.04
>>John: Give some advice to
that, that woman especially--
00:24:43.08\00:24:46.95
doesn't have to be a woman--
00:24:46.98\00:24:47.92
>>Juliet: Mm-hm.
00:24:47.95\00:24:49.05
>>John: ...who's in a
relationship that's just
00:24:49.08\00:24:50.82
spiraling downwards.
00:24:50.85\00:24:52.15
Nothing he or
she can do about it.
00:24:52.19\00:24:54.12
There's addictions,
or whatever the case is.
00:24:54.16\00:24:57.56
Where should they go?
00:24:57.59\00:24:58.56
>>Juliet: No, and,
and Dr. Larry Crabb says,
00:24:58.59\00:25:00.90
"Healing takes
place in community."
00:25:00.93\00:25:02.76
So we need to find a community
of people where we feel safe,
00:25:02.80\00:25:07.04
and who--where we're
not alone in our suffering;
00:25:07.07\00:25:09.07
our suffering is,
sorrow is divided.
00:25:09.10\00:25:11.61
Um, and I would, I would
suggest finding a local, um,
00:25:11.64\00:25:15.41
Christ-centered recovery,
um, group, recovery community.
00:25:15.44\00:25:19.41
Al-Anon is a wonderful resource.
00:25:19.45\00:25:22.02
Um, find a group that meets
regularly for codependents.
00:25:22.05\00:25:25.75
There's Codependents
Anonymous where, uh, those--
00:25:25.79\00:25:28.66
that's those of us who,
who get caught in the cycle
00:25:28.69\00:25:31.39
of rescuing that loved one.
00:25:31.43\00:25:32.96
Um, not everyone
can afford counseling,
00:25:32.99\00:25:35.76
professional counseling.
00:25:35.80\00:25:36.87
It's a wonderful
resource, if you can.
00:25:36.90\00:25:39.20
But if you can't, there are
people, um, who meet regularly
00:25:39.23\00:25:43.24
and talk and share and, um.
00:25:43.27\00:25:45.94
And be a reader. Um,
learn about addiction.
00:25:45.97\00:25:49.04
Learn about boundaries.
Learn about codependency.
00:25:49.08\00:25:52.11
Find out, um, about
yourself and what you can do,
00:25:52.15\00:25:57.42
and then find a safe place where
you can share and grow and heal.
00:25:57.45\00:26:02.76
There is hope.
00:26:02.79\00:26:04.13
¤[Music]¤
00:26:04.16\00:26:12.00
>>Announcer: Modern life makes
forming relationships hard.
00:26:13.00\00:26:15.77
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Get "Hope for Today's Families."
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00:26:37.93\00:26:42.43
>>John Bradshaw:
Juliet, let's pray together.
00:26:43.43\00:26:44.90
Let's pray.
00:26:44.93\00:26:46.40
Our Father in heaven,
00:26:46.43\00:26:47.40
we are grateful that
You are the God who gives.
00:26:47.44\00:26:49.97
You don't take away.
00:26:50.01\00:26:51.11
You give.
00:26:51.14\00:26:51.77
You restore. You remake.
00:26:51.81\00:26:54.21
Thank You that You
are never done with us,
00:26:54.24\00:26:56.81
that You always love us.
00:26:56.85\00:26:58.41
You don't turn from us,
even when we turn from You.
00:26:58.45\00:27:02.22
Our Father, I want to
pray right now for that woman,
00:27:02.25\00:27:05.95
that man, that young person,
00:27:05.99\00:27:08.46
who is struggling as
life crashes down around them,
00:27:08.49\00:27:12.59
and allow that the challenges
of this life would only turn us
00:27:12.63\00:27:16.50
in Your direction,
00:27:16.53\00:27:17.73
to embrace You, and
never to turn us away from You.
00:27:17.77\00:27:22.74
Lord, we thank
You, and we love You,
00:27:22.77\00:27:25.81
and we pray in
Jesus' name, amen.
00:27:25.84\00:27:29.98
Thanks so much for joining me.
00:27:30.01\00:27:31.35
I'm looking forward to
seeing you again next time.
00:27:31.38\00:27:33.82
Until then, remember:
00:27:33.85\00:27:35.78
"It is written, 'Man
shall not live by bread alone,
00:27:35.82\00:27:40.09
but by every word that proceeds
from the mouth of God.'"
00:27:40.12\00:27:44.96
¤[Theme music]¤
00:27:44.99\00:27:55.00
¤[Theme music]¤
00:27:55.00\00:28:15.66