¤[Intntro Music]¤
00:00:14.84\00:00:19.05
JB: This is It Is
Written. I'm Jo Bradshaw.
00:00:19.08\00:00:21.15
Thanks for joining me. In
Matthew, chapter 13, y you read
00:00:21.18\00:00:24.75
a fascinating parable, thehe
parable of the wheat and the
00:00:24.79\00:00:28.16
tares. A man n with a field of
wheat discovers that somebodhas
00:00:28.19\00:00:32.33
sewn weweeds among the wheat
and has caused great dame and
00:00:32.36\00:00:35.86
pontial catastrophic loss. And
when his servants cacame to him
00:00:35.90\00:00:39.57
and spoke to him about the weeds
in t the field, he answered by
00:00:39.60\00:00:42.70
saying, "An enememy has done
this." That's Matthew 13 and
00:00:42.74\00:00:47.38
verse e 28. When God created
the world, it was a peect world.
00:00:47.41\00:00:51.98
There was no sin, no sadness,
nono suffering, no loss. But an
00:00:52.01\00:00:56.38
enemy me. And one of the
consequences of the work of thee
00:00:56.42\00:00:59.52
enemy is g grief. We were
created to be happy forever. Gef
00:00:59.55\00:01:05.76
is a foreigign emotion to us, at
least with regard to t way God
00:01:05.79\00:01:09.10
created us. Yet we grieve;
there is sorrow; therere is
00:01:09.13\00:01:12.30
loss. "An enemy has done this."
How do you deal l with grief?
00:01:12.33\00:01:17.74
Unfortunately, it's one of
fe's inevitabilities. My guest
00:01:17.77\00:01:22.01
today is Pastor Mike Tucker,
thehe speaker and the director
00:01:22.04\00:01:25.41
from Faith for Today, a
mediaministry. He's the host of
00:01:25.45\00:01:28.62
Lifestyle Magazine, d for many
years has conducted marriage
00:01:28.65\00:01:31.79
seminars called "Mad
AboutMarriage." Pastor Mike
00:01:31.82\00:01:35.32
Tucker, thanks for joining me
today. MT: Its a pleasure to be
00:01:35.36\00:01:37.49
here. Thank you, John.
JB: No unfortunately, when it
00:01:37.53\00:01:39.33
comes to grief, you
have firsthand experience..
00:01:39.36\00:01:41.43
Recent experience. The sort
of exexperience none of us want
00:01:41.46\00:01:44.57
to go
throrough. Explain briefly.
00:01:44.60\00:01:45.87
MT: Less than six momonths ago,
00:01:45.90\00:01:47.27
my wife of over 40 years,
Gayle Tuckerer, passed away
00:01:47.30\00:01:50.37
from paneatic cancer. It was a
brief illness; first symptptoms
00:01:50.41\00:01:54.18
March 3, put her in e hospital
16, and died April 10. So it's
been a painfnful journey for me
00:01:57.75\00:02:02.82
March 6, diagnosed March because
she was my best iend, my partner
00:02:02.85\00:02:05.59
in ministry. We did everything
together, from pastoral ministry
00:02:05.62\00:02:08.32
to chaplaincto television
ministry, seminars, preaching,
00:02:08.36\00:02:12.76
you name it. We did it
all gether. And so to lose her
00:02:12.79\00:02:16.46
has been just the most
devastatating experience
00:02:16.50\00:02:18.60
of my life. . JB: And this
simply came from out of the be?
00:02:18.63\00:02:20.57
MT: Oh, yeah.
JB: She was picture
00:02:20.60\00:02:21.90
of perfect hlth.
MT: Perfect health.
00:02:21.94\00:02:23.24
JB: No health issues.
MT: Noyou know, we pastored
00:02:23.27\00:02:24.77
one chchurch for 17 years.
She did not miss one dayrom work
00:02:24.81\00:02:27.78
because of h health. Not one.
JB: So this wasn't somethingou
00:02:27.81\00:02:29.88
could prepare for. MT: No.
00:02:29.91\00:02:31.18
JB:
EmEmotionally or any other way
00:02:31.21\00:02:32.58
MT: No. She played volleybalall
years with the same group of
every week, and had for over 20
00:02:35.88\00:02:38.09
women. Diving g on the floor,
getting volleyballs, you know
the "digs," theyey call them,
00:02:38.12\00:02:40.82
you know. All l sorts of
things. Vibrant health, happy,
00:02:40.86\00:02:44.96
ergetic, until boom, all of
a sudden these symptptoms hit.
00:02:44.99\00:02:48.53
JBJB: And along with
that, with the loss, comes ief.
00:02:48.56\00:02:52.20
Define grief for me.
MT: Grief  an emotional,
00:02:52.23\00:02:55.37
psychological,nd
physical reaction to any loss
00:02:55.40\00:02:58.34
that is significant. :
And anybody can grieve.
00:02:58.37\00:03:01.01
I'm thinking the
loss of a pet. MT: Yes.
00:03:01.01\00:03:03.28
JB: And your
4-year-old little girl...
00:03:03.31\00:03:05.41
MT: YeYes. JB:
...is going to have
00:03:05.45\00:03:07.22
the hardest time
adjustingo life without Fluffy.
00:03:07.25\00:03:08.52
MT: I lost a Greatane,
who I'd had for 11 and half
00:03:08.58\00:03:11.69
years, and I had to put her down
becausof arthritis in her back
00:03:11.72\00:03:14.56
legsgs. And I loved that
dog, and I, I cried ovethat dog.
00:03:14.59\00:03:18.36
I grieved heavily for
her. JB: So grief is something
00:03:18.39\00:03:21.46
ththat's going to come. MT: Yes.
00:03:21.50\00:03:22.73
JB: And it's g going
to be difficult, isn't it?
00:03:22.76\00:03:24.47
MT: Yes, it is. JB: I
think it's impmportant
00:03:24.50\00:03:25.87
people realize this. There's
no shshortcut around this, is
00:03:25.90\00:03:28.17
there? MT: No. You cannot ignore
it. You can't outwork k it.
00:03:28.20\00:03:31.37
You can't ouout-medicate
it. The longer you put it off,
00:03:31.41\00:03:34.08
the longer it
will take and the more
00:03:34.11\00:03:35.44
diffict it will be. The
best thing is to grieve early;
00:03:35.48\00:03:39.51
grgrieve intensely early,
because tt's going to have the
00:03:39.55\00:03:43.05
best result. It may not shorten
it, but it will lessen the
00:03:43.08\00:03:46.35
overall symptoms and the
severity of ththe process. JB:
You had no time to prepare
00:03:46.39\00:03:49.39
yourself for
Gayle's d death. MT: Unh-uh.
00:03:49.42\00:03:51.16
JB: She was the
picture of perfect heaealth.
00:03:51.19\00:03:52.43
MT: Yeah. JB:
Your closest frienend.
00:03:52.46\00:03:54.60
And fromut of nowhere
came a devastating diagnosis.
00:03:54.63\00:03:56.93
Now, what if this had
beenen a lesser illness, but
00:03:56.97\00:04:02.24
with the potenential
to become serious? One of
00:04:02.27\00:04:04.84
these illnesses
wher my goodness, if
00:04:04.87\00:04:06.78
things don't go o well we
could lose her in five years.
00:04:06.81\00:04:09.14
MT: Um-hmm. JB: Can you prepare
00:04:09.18\00:04:12.08
ahead  time for grief? Is
there anything you can do?
00:04:12.11\00:04:14.88
Is there anything
you shou do, or do you
00:04:14.92\00:04:16.65
just say, "Thehere's no
way that's going to happen, and
00:04:16.69\00:04:19.49
should it t happen, we cross
that bridge when we get tre"?
00:04:19.52\00:04:21.49
MT: I think what everyone
does at thahat point is, you
00:04:21.52\00:04:24.69
anticipate the best and you
w work for the best. When it
00:04:24.73\00:04:28.36
becomes worse, and then you
begin to realize e that you
might lose them, is really
00:04:28.40\00:04:30.63
the e time, I think, for most
people to engage in ticipatory
00:04:30.67\00:04:34.04
grief. Alright, need
to prepare myself in some
00:04:34.07\00:04:36.77
way for thisoss. JB:
How does a person prepare
00:04:36.81\00:04:38.81
themselves for a loss and
the grief that ces with it?
00:04:38.84\00:04:41.44
MT: I think the first
thin is to make sure that your
00:04:41.48\00:04:43.28
relationship with
that individual is clear:
00:04:43.31\00:04:46.15
that you're e happy together,
that there's nothing betweeyou,
00:04:46.18\00:04:48.82
that anything you need to
say "I'm sorrrry" for is done.
00:04:48.85\00:04:52.29
That's the first step: to ke
sure that we're good. And then
00:04:52.32\00:04:54.89
I think you start
byby reviewing the stories.
00:04:54.92\00:04:58.06
Life review isis what we
encourage people to do who are
00:04:58.09\00:05:00.96
facing their own death. SoSo how
has your life been significant?
00:05:00.96\00:05:04.53
Wh are the stories? And then
as you imagine what itit's going
00:05:04.57\00:05:07.87
to be like without that
person in your r life, allowing
00:05:07.90\00:05:10.31
yourself to feel those emotions,
and to grieieve in anticipation
00:05:10.37\00:05:13.48
of the loss, will also help
you. But justutting the life in
00:05:13.51\00:05:16.81
peperspective and understanding,
all right, the's a value to
00:05:16.85\00:05:19.35
ththis life. And although we're
going to lose is individual,
00:05:19.38\00:05:22.85
there's been a value to their
being here. There'e's been a
00:05:22.88\00:05:24.82
purpose for this
life. And that's helpfpful.
00:05:24.85\00:05:26.79
JB: Now, grief came toto
you, and you have some inbuilt
00:05:26.82\00:05:30.29
prepeparation, that
is, you're a pastor.
00:05:30.33\00:05:31.89
You've been a
counselor. MT: Um-hmm
00:05:31.93\00:05:34.83
JB: You've worked in hospice,
and you'vehepherded people
00:05:34.86\00:05:38.50
through these processeses
many, many, many times.
00:05:38.53\00:05:41.14
MT: Um-hmm. JB: Did that help?
00:05:41.17\00:05:43.00
MT: It helps in one sense.
First of allll, I know what to
00:05:43.04\00:05:46.34
expect. It helps because I knoww
that I'm not crazy. That's the
00:05:46.37\00:05:50.11
most frequently asked questionon
of people in severe grief.
00:05:50.15\00:05:52.78
Theyey'll share their symptoms
mind? Am I crazy?" However, with
me: "Have I jt lost my knowing
00:05:55.18\00:05:58.72
those e things does not lelessen
my pain. It will not shorten the
00:05:58.75\00:06:02.76
time.  may help me understand
better how to deal anhow to
00:06:02.79\00:06:05.63
react to things without asking
for advice, because I know how
00:06:05.66\00:06:07.96
to o give the advice. But it's
not goingo shorten the intensity
00:06:08.00\00:06:12.13
of the pain. It's not going
to shorten the e time. So it
00:06:12.17\00:06:14.57
doesn't help in that respect.
JB: So ausband or a wife
00:06:14.60\00:06:19.84
is gng to lose a
spouse. MT: Um-hmm.
00:06:19.87\00:06:21.81
JB: Grief is going
to cocome. MT: Yeah.
00:06:21.84\00:06:23.71
JB: WhWhat's guaranteed
to come with that grief?
00:06:23.78\00:06:26.88
MT: Well, first of all,
there's gointo be a sense
00:06:26.92\00:06:29.25
of e emptiness, loneliness.
There may be, especily early on,
00:06:29.28\00:06:33.56
and ev continuing for months,
the sense that it's not t real.
00:06:33.59\00:06:37.33
LiLike you've dreamed this.
Like you want to pih yourself.
00:06:37.36\00:06:39.59
I still do that; it's be
six months. So that's normal.
00:06:39.63\00:06:42.33
Also, there's frequent
crying. You may y feel like
00:06:42.36\00:06:45.23
there's a weight pressg
down on your chest, difficult to
00:06:45.27\00:06:47.94
breathe deeply. You'll
find yourself sighi more
00:06:47.97\00:06:50.11
frequently. You'll find a sense
of, ofof sorrow and sadness, uh,
00:06:50.14\00:06:56.41
a lost-ness. A loss of
enjoyingactivities you used to
00:06:56.44\00:07:00.72
enjoy before, you suddenly
now take nono pleasure in.
00:07:00.75\00:07:04.45
Short-term memory is gone.
Um, abilities t concentrate are
00:07:04.49\00:07:10.09
gone. And just an overall
feeli of depression and pain and
00:07:10.13\00:07:13.70
sorrow that is intense. It's,
i it's a wonderful experience.
00:07:13.73\00:07:17.07
JB: I'm sure. MT: [laughs]
00:07:17.10\00:07:18.00
JB: Now, that's
going to last how lo?
00:07:18.03\00:07:22.54
MT: It varies s from person
to person. One to two years
00:07:22.57\00:07:25.11
is the average f a significant
loss. Uh, some people
00:07:25.14\00:07:28.21
will experiencnce that up to
three to five years, depend--a
00:07:28.24\00:07:32.65
not really be patholological
with that. But you usually look
00:07:32.68\00:07:35.75
for recoveryand that means the
ability to think clearly again..
00:07:35.78\00:07:39.09
Maybe it's not the fir
and last thing on your mind
00:07:39.12\00:07:40.96
every day. You'll still y and
feel sad and feel the sorrow,
00:07:40.99\00:07:44.69
but be ablto function more
normally after one to two years.
00:07:44.73\00:07:48.26
And then that's when
we talk about rerecovery.
00:07:48.30\00:07:50.57
JB: There's no question n when
it comes to grief, this is the
00:07:50.60\00:07:53.27
work of the enemy. "An enemy
hath ne this." But we'll come
00:07:53.30\00:07:55.44
to the Bible, and we'll l
discover that there is a way
00:07:55.50\00:07:57.77
through. There is a way through
grief, and  can thank God for
00:07:57.81\00:08:01.01
that. ll be back with
more with Pastor Mike Tucker
00:08:01.04\00:08:02.91
in just a ment.
00:08:02.94\00:08:05.38
¤[Soft Piano Music]¤
00:08:05.41\00:08:11.39
Announcer: Grief. Sadly,
it's an inetable part of life.
00:08:11.42\00:08:15.22
There's no escaping loss in
this wororld and the pain that
00:08:15.26\00:08:17.83
comes alonong with it.
Grief can be disabling, intense
00:08:17.86\00:08:20.90
andebilitating. So make
sure you get your free copy
00:08:20.93\00:08:24.27
of "Coping with Grf" by John
Bradshaw. There is a way through
00:08:24.30\00:08:27.84
life's toughest mes. Learn how
you or someone you care about
00:08:27.87\00:08:30.97
n cope with grief. Discover
principles that willll show you
00:08:31.01\00:08:34.54
how to returto a life full of
joy and hope. Please, don't lett
00:08:34.58\00:08:38.85
grief be any more difficult than
it has to be. . When the burdens
00:08:38.91\00:08:42.08
of loss seem to be more than
you can ndle, there is a way you
00:08:42.12\00:08:44.99
can cope with grief. To receive
the book "ping with Grief,"
00:08:45.02\00:08:48.29
call right now 1-800-25353-3000.
There's absolutely no cost or
00:08:48.32\00:08:53.40
obligation, and our nes
are open 24 hours a day. If the
00:08:53.43\00:08:56.83
lines are busy, pleaease try
again. We'll send "Coping with
00:08:56.87\00:09:00.27
Grief" free e to any
address in North America. Call
00:09:00.30\00:09:03.64
1-800-253-303000. Or you can
write to us at It Is Written,
00:09:03.67\00:09:08.18
P O Box 6, Chattanooga,
Tennsee, 37401. To download
00:09:08.21\00:09:13.78
a free electronic version of
"Coping with Grief,"," please
00:09:13.82\00:09:16.79
visit us online at
ItIsWritten.com. To get
00:09:16.82\00:09:20.29
your free copy of "C"Coping
with Grief," call right now,
00:09:20.32\00:09:23.49
1-800-253-303000.
00:09:23.53\00:09:26.09
¤[Music]¤
00:09:26.13\00:09:27.13
JB: Thanksor joining
me today on It Is Written.
00:09:27.13\00:09:28.90
I'm John Bradshaw.
With me my good friend
00:09:28.96\00:09:31.03
Mike Tucker, who is a pastor,
and anuthor, and a television
00:09:31.07\00:09:33.84
presenter, aounselor, a
chaplain. Mike, you've kind of
00:09:33.87\00:09:37.61
done it all. MT: Yeah.
00:09:37.64\00:09:38.84
JB: We're talkintoday about
grief. You have, unfortunately,
00:09:38.91\00:09:43.58
a close-up, first-hand
experience with grief.
00:09:43.61\00:09:45.68
And it's sometething everybody
can relate to, or will relatto.
00:09:45.71\00:09:50.85
We hear a lot about the stages
ofof grief. Walk us through
00:09:50.89\00:09:54.12
those and tell us how they
app to a grieving situation.
00:09:54.16\00:09:56.42
MT: The stages of
grief, itepends who you're
00:09:56.46\00:09:58.59
reading. Some people say
there are fourur, another five,
00:09:58.63\00:10:00.93
another seveven, and another
twelve. And all of them tend t
00:10:00.96\00:10:04.23
think that you go throh those
stages in order. Well, those may
00:10:04.27\00:10:08.10
be helpful for a lot opeople;
I've never found them to be
00:10:08.14\00:10:10.34
helpful. So it depends on who
you reread. But if it's helpful
00:10:10.37\00:10:12.97
for you,u, use it. For
me, instead, I usually think
00:10:13.01\00:10:16.24
about goals of grief.
JB: The goals of grief?
00:10:16.28\00:10:18.58
: Goals of grief.
Grief has a purpose.
00:10:18.61\00:10:21.02
And as you a accomplish goals,
you walk your way through .
00:10:21.05\00:10:24.02
And then there a
four activities of grief,
00:10:24.05\00:10:25.45
which I'll mention later.
But e first goal of grief is to
00:10:25.49\00:10:28.26
believe that it actually
happened. And agai you may,
00:10:28.29\00:10:31.39
you may deal with this and have
through the journey. Because
there are times s when I wake
00:10:34.30\00:10:36.26
up, to revisit that all the way
after six months, anI still have
00:10:36.30\00:10:38.40
to remind myself that this is
real. JB: A friend of mine was a
00:10:38.43\00:10:40.10
chaplain for a police
dedepartment MT: Yeah.
00:10:40.14\00:10:42.60
JB: He'd tell me abobout having
to go and break the news to
00:10:42.64\00:10:45.67
people: your husba has been
killed in a terrible accident.
00:10:45.71\00:10:48.08
He told me it was really
intereing that you go and
00:10:48.08\00:10:50.58
tell people this, and they just
flat out refefuse to believe it.
00:10:50.65\00:10:53.21
MT: Right. JB: He
spoke about one ly.
00:10:53.25\00:10:54.52
He had to put her in the
car, drdrive her to the accident
00:10:54.55\00:10:56.79
scene, d say, "This
is where it happened."
00:10:56.82\00:10:58.02
Still wouldn't
belieieve it. MT: Yeah.
00:10:58.05\00:11:00.16
JB: So, so that's,
that's a thing huh?
00:11:00.19\00:11:02.42
MT: You cannot, you
cannot grieve a loss
00:11:02.46\00:11:04.26
you do not accept.
And so the ocess is
00:11:04.29\00:11:06.46
happened. The truth is that if
stopped until you acceptt. you
live in deninial long enough,
00:11:09.43\00:11:12.77
Yes, I believe this has really
eventually youan come to the
point where you almost never get
00:11:12.80\00:11:15.00
back, or it's ry difficult to
get back. And so the sooner you
00:11:15.04\00:11:18.67
accept the reality of it, thee
better for you. So that is the
00:11:18.71\00:11:22.18
first goalal, is to believe that
this really happened. Anagain,
00:11:22.21\00:11:25.41
the fact that you, you have
times where you ubt it again,
00:11:25.45\00:11:28.55
but yoyou bring your mind--that
doesn't mean that u haven't
00:11:28.58\00:11:30.45
accomplished this gogoal. You
just have to re-accomplish it.
00:11:30.49\00:11:33.59
So thatat's the first
goal, is to believe that it real
00:11:33.62\00:11:36.09
happened. The second goal isis
to be willing to experience the
00:11:36.12\00:11:40.00
pain. Uh, so people will try
 outwork it, or ignore it, or
00:11:40.03\00:11:44.87
stuff it. Some people will
out-medicate it, or out-ink it.
00:11:44.90\00:11:48.54
Eventually the pain's going to
come and get you. If f you deal
00:11:48.57\00:11:52.51
with it early, it's better
than i if you deal with it late,
00:11:52.54\00:11:54.84
because when it comes back late,
it will com back in, in spades.
00:11:54.88\00:11:57.85
So it'll be even harder and more
difficult. JB: But t isn't it
00:11:57.88\00:12:02.22
right to try to gerid of the
pain? I mean, that's what we do.
00:12:02.25\00:12:04.92
No onone goes intoto surgery
without anesthetic, and the
first ing you do if
00:12:04.95\00:12:07.46
you have a headache is take a
Tylenonol or some such thing. So
00:12:07.49\00:12:10.49
wouldn't that just be a
natural thinto say, I've lost
00:12:10.53\00:12:14.36
a pet, a a
grandparent... MT: Yeah, yeah.
00:12:14.36\00:12:16.10
JB: ...a spouse, a chi.
It hurts like crazy. I want
00:12:16.13\00:12:18.93
to get rid of the in.
MT: Yeah. Well, the truth is,
00:12:18.97\00:12:21.24
you can, you can help with
that. There are dicines that can
00:12:21.27\00:12:24.01
help, and me people will use
those, and that's fine. I don'tt
00:12:24.04\00:12:26.37
think there's a shame
in that as long as ey're
00:12:26.41\00:12:27.81
us as, as prescribed.
JB: Well, now, I'm not
00:12:27.84\00:12:30.48
specifically
refring to medicines.
00:12:30.51\00:12:31.88
MT: YeYeah. JB:
But wouldn't you want
00:12:31.91\00:12:32.95
to find a way out of
thihis pain? You're saying...
00:12:32.98\00:12:34.28
MT: Abl...everyone
wants to find a way out.
00:12:34.32\00:12:36.25
JB: What you're saying
is,really, you ought to kind of
00:12:36.28\00:12:37.32
confront ts and live with
it. MT: Yes, That's right.
00:12:37.35\00:12:38.92
JB: There's no way around
it. MT: The ly way through grief
00:12:38.95\00:12:41.29
is, indeed, through it.
You can't, you can outrun it.
00:12:41.32\00:12:46.23
And so, my p personality is
such that I don't want to be
00:12:46.26\00:12:49.73
the victimAnd so since I
know I have to go through it,
00:12:49.76\00:12:52.90
initiate contact with it. That
means that I will l force myself
00:12:52.93\00:12:56.60
at times tthink about memories
of her that are painful,
00:12:56.64\00:12:59.37
and those that are joyous.
I, I gotot back in the pulpit
00:12:59.41\00:13:03.01
for the first time, oner
than, perhaps, some would have
00:13:03.04\00:13:05.88
thought s advisable. But
I knew I needed to do this.
00:13:05.91\00:13:08.78
JB: What was it like?
MT: It wasery painful.
00:13:08.82\00:13:10.62
I had to steteel my mind and be,
be prepared for the possibity.
00:13:10.65\00:13:15.56
I went ovethe danger points in
my sermon where I might lose i
00:13:15.59\00:13:20.23
it. and JB: You
prepared ahead of time.
00:13:20.26\00:13:21.83
MT: Yes, I did. I
prepareded for that.
00:13:21.86\00:13:23.83
And so I, and I bathed myselflf
in prayer, and then just
00:13:23.87\00:13:28.74
std up and
delivered. And I got through it.
00:13:28.77\00:13:30.84
JB: Now, you a and
Gayle, for years, have hosted
00:13:30.87\00:13:33.71
television
programs. MT: Yeah, ye.
00:13:33.74\00:13:36.38
JB: Excellent prprogram. And
you've gone back into the studio
00:13:36.41\00:13:40.02
thout her... MT: Yes.
00:13:40.05\00:13:41.42
JB: ...to film those
programs now,w, with a team,
00:13:41.45\00:13:44.52
buon your own. MT: Yes.
00:13:44.55\00:13:46.05
JB: What was that ke?
MT: Extremely painful.
00:13:46.09\00:13:48.86
Extremely painful, becau
she should have been there.
00:13:48.89\00:13:50.76
JB: Yeahah. MT: We
worked together as a team
00:13:50.79\00:13:52.53
so long that we would anticipate
what thether was going to say,
00:13:52.56\00:13:55.10
and when they were going to
say itand who was going to ask
00:13:55.13\00:13:56.87
the question next. We didn't
have to give each other signs.
00:13:56.90\00:13:59.33
I miss that on a professioional
level, but I just missed her,
00:13:59.37\00:14:03.61
and her laughterand
her joy, and her comfort,
00:14:03.64\00:14:07.24
being there with me. Becauause
that was always a team activity;
00:14:07.28\00:14:09.74
it was a a team ministry.
So that was very painful.
00:14:09.78\00:14:12.28
JB: Wh's really fascinating
here is that as an author,r,
00:14:12.31\00:14:16.25
a teacheher, a preacher, a
television presenter, you ew
00:14:16.28\00:14:22.12
the pain that you we going to
experience by doing it. Yet you
00:14:22.16\00:14:24.73
chose to do it a
anyway. MT: Yeah.
00:14:24.76\00:14:26.36
JB: Now,as that the, was
that the healthy thing to do,
00:14:26.39\00:14:28.66
or was it st the
stubborn thing to do?
00:14:28.70\00:14:30.00
MT: It can be healthy-y--maybe
it's stubborn too, because I am
00:14:30.03\00:14:32.77
stubborn. But I do think that,
that there's's a health to it
00:14:32.80\00:14:36.54
if, indeed, you think you'reeady
for the next step. I stretch
00:14:36.57\00:14:39.41
myself, and I lean into the
pain. If I put it ofoff, it's
00:14:39.44\00:14:43.91
going to bharder and harder for
me. And so I try to initiatete
00:14:43.95\00:14:47.22
things. . I've gone to favorite
vacation spots withouter, just
00:14:47.25\00:14:50.49
to initiatate that. Restaurants
where we've eaten togeer.
00:14:50.52\00:14:53.36
JB: Now, that't's interesting,
because you got a couple of
00:14:53.36\00:14:55.76
guys who are friends,
they go fishing evevery Sunday.
00:14:55.79\00:14:58.06
MT: Yeah. JB:
You'd say to that guy,
00:14:58.09\00:14:59.39
"Go fishg." MT: Go fishing.
00:14:59.43\00:15:00.86
JB: Yeah? MT:
Don't do iright away.
00:15:00.90\00:15:02.16
Wait until you think
you're ready, butnitiate that.
00:15:02.20\00:15:04.83
Go back. A misconcnception
is to think that to honor this
00:15:04.87\00:15:08.30
lifeI never do those things
again. That's kind of buililding
00:15:08.34\00:15:11.57
a monument to them, and it
restricts your life. Butut I
00:15:11.61\00:15:14.84
want honor Gayle's life by
continuing to do the things s
00:15:14.88\00:15:17.55
that we didogether. One of the
last things she said to me was s
00:15:17.58\00:15:20.68
"live our life. Live our life."
That meant fah, it meant family,
00:15:20.72\00:15:25.42
it meant ministry. But I thk it
further means, continue to live
00:15:25.45\00:15:28.72
with the joy that we h had.
So I've gone to those vacation
00:15:28.76\00:15:31.79
spots. I've gone back toto
the studio. I'm trying to write
00:15:31.83\00:15:34.83
again, but I can't concentrate
like I, , I used to be able to.
00:15:34.86\00:15:37.73
So that'seen a painful
experience for me; I'm just not
00:15:37.77\00:15:40.20
able e to do it yet. Some things
you can doand some things you
00:15:40.24\00:15:42.70
can't. JB: But you anticipate
that sosooner or later you'll be
00:15:42.74\00:15:45.34
able to do that. MT:
Yes. I will  that again.
00:15:45.37\00:15:47.91
JB: Let me ask you this:
y you probably just answered
00:15:47.94\00:15:50.25
the question, but, u let's
say, for instance, you used
00:15:50.28\00:15:53.98
to love to go to the store
anand get an ice cream sundae.
00:15:54.02\00:15:57.32
MT: Yeahah. JB:
Yeah. And so now you go to
00:15:57.35\00:15:59.39
the store,e, and you
get an ice cream sundae.
00:15:59.42\00:16:01.52
MT: Um-hmm. JB:
Do you feel ilty that
00:16:01.56\00:16:04.33
you're eoying this pleasure
but she's not there, and soo
00:16:04.39\00:16:08.53
maybe I shouldn't?
Dyou, because people
00:16:08.56\00:16:10.90
wrestle with this.
MT: Yeah, they d do.
00:16:10.93\00:16:12.23
JB: So I'm asking you,
is that, is that thing?
00:16:12.27\00:16:14.07
MT: It's a real ththing.
And it's not something that I've
00:16:14.10\00:16:17.11
had; I just f feel, for me
personally, I just feel her
00:16:17.14\00:16:20.74
abnce and, and that sorrow. But
othther people feel guilt over
00:16:20.78\00:16:23.18
this-- kind o of a survivor's
remorse. JB: What should th
00:16:23.21\00:16:25.75
do about tt? MT: I
think that the best thing
00:16:25.78\00:16:27.42
to do ababout it is to still
lean into it, and reminyourself
00:16:27.45\00:16:30.75
that t this is what that
person would want you to .
00:16:30.79\00:16:33.59
As lonong as you have life,
live it. And now this beces
00:16:33.62\00:16:36.83
the new tribute to them. One
tribibute is to grieve and to
00:16:36.86\00:16:40.36
weep, and to withdraw to some
degree. AnAnd you may do that
00:16:40.40\00:16:43.47
for a time. Eventually, you need
too initiate contact with the
00:16:43.50\00:16:47.34
pain, and lean back into
life, and that becomomes the new
00:16:47.37\00:16:50.01
tribute to them. So o as I
engage in that process of being
00:16:50.04\00:16:53.48
lling to experience the
pain, it means I'm, I crcry,
00:16:53.51\00:16:56.88
I think, I talk about
the experience. BuBut I also
00:16:56.91\00:17:00.38
initiate the experience. For me,
that's, that's's a better way of
00:17:00.42\00:17:03.39
dealing with it. Not every
personality's the same. But for
00:17:03.42\00:17:06.96
me, leaning to it and
anticipating the next first, and
00:17:06.99\00:17:10.56
getting g there as soon as I
can, has been helpful for meme.
00:17:10.59\00:17:12.56
JB: As long as you havave life,
live it. I'll be back with more
00:17:12.59\00:17:16.13
frfrom Mike
Tucker in just a moment.
00:17:16.16\00:17:18.23
¤[Music]¤
00:17:18.27\00:17:25.17
"Every Word" is a one-minute,
Bible-bad daily devotional
00:17:25.21\00:17:28.98
presented by Pastor
John Bradshaw and desesigned
00:17:29.01\00:17:31.55
especially for b
busy people like you.
00:17:31.58\00:17:34.25
Recieve a day spiritual
boost. Watch "Every Word"
00:17:34.28\00:17:38.35
¤[Mus]¤
00:17:38.39\00:17:42.69
JB: Guilt is a major
issue in alot of lives.
00:17:42.72\00:17:46.23
Not all guilt is bad
00:17:46.26\00:17:47.93
It's good to have something
side you that let's you know
00:17:47.96\00:17:50.20
you've done something
wrong.That you need to reexamine
00:17:50.23\00:17:52.53
behavior or attitudes or
your responsese to others.
00:17:52.57\00:17:55.24
BuBut when you've done something
really wrong it n be difficult
00:17:55.27\00:17:58.21
to get over the feelings
of failure e or worthlessness,
00:17:58.24\00:18:00.41
or some her destructive
emotions. But i've got good news
00:18:00.44\00:18:03.58
for you today. It's found in 1st
The Bible says simply, Christ
died for ourur sins.
00:18:06.28\00:18:09.92
cocorinthians 15:3 what you
do about the things u've done
00:18:09.95\00:18:11.59
wrong, really wrongYou can't
take em back. But you can let
00:18:11.62\00:18:14.66
Jesus take away thguilt and ill
feelings. Jesus died for your
00:18:14.69\00:18:17.39
sins. Sin's a serious thing
bu Christ's death for you means
00:18:17.43\00:18:21.56
you don't have t to feel guilty
about the mistakes that you'
00:18:21.60\00:18:25.07
made in the pa. Jesus has
died for you and that's that!
00:18:25.10\00:18:30.24
I'm John Bradshaw for ItIs
Written. Let's live today by
00:18:32.57\00:18:34.34
every word." ¤[Mususic]¤
00:18:34.38\00:18:39.45
JB: Thanks for joining me today
on It Is W Written. My guest
00:18:39.51\00:18:41.92
And Mike, as we discuss grief,
is Pastor Mike Tucker looking at
t the, the goals from Faith f
00:18:44.29\00:18:48.12
Today. of g grief, what
were those first two again?
00:18:48.16\00:18:49.92
MT: Believe that
itreally happened is the first
00:18:49.96\00:18:51.96
one. To be wilng to experience
the pain is the second one. The
00:18:51.99\00:18:54.86
third one is to make adjustments
to dailyly life without that
00:18:54.93\00:18:57.93
person in yourife. Now,
for me, that means learning
00:18:57.97\00:19:01.00
to cook [chuckles], or
finng cheap restaurants
00:19:01.04\00:19:04.31
[c[chuckles]. It also
means finding a new confante.
00:19:04.34\00:19:07.98
Whatatever it may happen to
be, there have to bedjustments
00:19:08.01\00:19:10.65
to life, daily life,
without th individual.
00:19:10.68\00:19:12.75
JB: That becomes
realally practical, doesn't it?
00:19:12.78\00:19:14.62
MT: Very practical. That's where
the rubbereets the road. And
00:19:14.65\00:19:16.95
you have to do those
things. Th's inescapable.
00:19:16.99\00:19:18.75
JB: After my dad died, my mother
had to try toto figure out
00:19:18.79\00:19:20.99
who was going to
change the light bululbs.
00:19:21.02\00:19:22.36
MT: : Yeah. JB: And get up high,
00:19:22.39\00:19:23.66
and these kinds of thihings. And
that's, that's an adjustment,
00:19:23.66\00:19:26.49
isn't it? MT: All
of those things are aa
00:19:26.53\00:19:27.83
part of this whole proce, and
that's a big deal -- especially
00:19:27.86\00:19:31.40
when someone has been involved
with youlife as Gayle was with
00:19:31.43\00:19:33.74
me for 40 years. We did
erything together. But, you
00:19:33.77\00:19:36.60
know, there are still certain
thingsgs around the house that
00:19:36.64\00:19:38.64
she did, and it wa
divide and conquer.
00:19:38.64\00:19:40.34
JB: Sure. MT: I
got no one to divide
00:19:40.38\00:19:41.91
with anymore, you know? It's all
me. And soso I have to figure
00:19:41.94\00:19:45.48
out how to do the things that
she used to do. Uh, itit may
00:19:45.51\00:19:49.15
mean any number of things, but
you make thosose adjustments to
00:19:49.18\00:19:51.92
daily life without this pererson
in your life anymore. Uh,
00:19:51.95\00:19:55.52
that's, that' reality; it's
painful. You make the
adjustments,s, but I'm also
00:19:55.56\00:19:59.59
leaning into that pain. I
leararned how to get through
00:19:59.63\00:20:02.26
her, her birthday the
first time withouher. That's an
00:20:02.30\00:20:04.90
adjustment. My daughter justst,
my oldest daughter, just had her
00:20:04.93\00:20:08.17
birthday. That's aadjustment,
getting through that birthday
00:20:08.20\00:20:10.44
without Momma being the. I
may keep some old traditions,
00:20:10.47\00:20:14.08
and I may form some new
ones. I don'n't know yet.
00:20:14.11\00:20:16.08
JB: Forming new
trtraditions. MT: Yeah.
00:20:16.11\00:20:18.01
JB: Isn't it denial of the past?
MT: Not necearily. I remember
00:20:18.05\00:20:21.42
one lady, when her mother
di, it came Thanksgiving time.
00:20:21.45\00:20:25.19
The house was empty;
hemother's house was empty.
00:20:25.22\00:20:27.29
d they always went
there because it was the law
00:20:27.32\00:20:29.32
of the Medes and the
PePersians: you ate at Momma's
00:20:29.36\00:20:31.63
housuse for Thanksgiving. And
Momma kind of ruled th an iron
00:20:31.66\00:20:34.83
fist. So it ca up to
Thanksgiving; she said, should I
00:20:34.83\00:20:37.03
go, should I have the faly
go back and eat there in that
00:20:37.07\00:20:39.47
house? I said, absolutely not.
It's t time for a new tradition.
00:20:39.50\00:20:43.27
The old tradition was fine while
it laste Some things may stay
00:20:43.30\00:20:46.64
the same. But me things will
change, and you need to form
00:20:46.68\00:20:50.18
that new tration. JB:
And people ought to feel
00:20:50.21\00:20:51.58
mfortable about taking the
responsibility for makining
00:20:51.61\00:20:55.35
those decisions and
feing good about it.
00:20:55.35\00:20:56.72
MT: Yeah. It's all right. And,
in fact, y you may make a bad
00:20:56.75\00:20:59.52
decision. ay. Go back
and do it again a different
00:20:59.59\00:21:02.52
way next time. JB:
Okay. Fourth sta, or
00:21:02.56\00:21:05.09
fourth goal. MTMT:
Fourth goal is to be willing
00:21:05.13\00:21:07.83
to say gooye to the
relationship as it used to be.
00:21:07.86\00:21:10.43
Withdraw the emotional energy
and reinvestt elsewhere. I say
00:21:10.47\00:21:14.80
goodbye to that portion of
our relationship, maybe one at a
00:21:14.84\00:21:18.31
time, and withdraw
thatmotional energy that I'd
00:21:18.34\00:21:21.51
invested in thatand eventually
find a place to reinvest.
00:21:21.54\00:21:24.81
Now, the healthy reinvesents
are going to have to do
00:21:24.85\00:21:27.18
with God, with other
peopl and with service, and with
00:21:27.22\00:21:30.99
giving, rather than just in
somemething that's about me,
00:21:31.02\00:21:34.49
self-centetered or myopic. I
want a broad, purpose forife.
00:21:34.52\00:21:38.46
And so I find a way to reinvest.
I may do iin volunteerism.
00:21:38.49\00:21:41.43
I can reinst in my family,
my children, my grandchildren..
00:21:41.46\00:21:45.40
That's a part of the
reinstment, and that's
00:21:45.43\00:21:47.07
okay. Some people will reinvest
in a new l love. That may or may
00:21:47.07\00:21:51.37
not happen for me. It certainly
shouldn'n't happen until a
00:21:51.41\00:21:55.11
couple of years down the road
for yone. Anyone. Men are more
00:21:55.14\00:21:58.81
likely tremarry quickly. I
have no idea if I ever will.
00:21:58.85\00:22:02.02
It's not anything I want to
considider yet. It's not on my
00:22:02.05\00:22:05.39
dar yet, and it may never be.
JB: Let me ask youou this: what
00:22:05.42\00:22:10.63
should someone do, or not
do, help somebody else who's
00:22:10.66\00:22:15.13
grieving? MT: Don't
try to fix it. That's
00:22:15.16\00:22:17.10
the numberne thing. When,
better, because we're not people
want to make me feel comfortable
00:22:20.40\00:22:23.20
withth pain in western society.
I may express pain, and they'lll
00:22:23.24\00:22:25.37
come back with a "yeah,
bu" You know, the "yeah, but"
00:22:25.41\00:22:28.58
I already know.
00:22:28.61\00:22:29.91
You'reot going to help
me with the "yeah, but." I'm
00:22:29.94\00:22:32.18
beyond being cheered up. Iwill
help down the road, and I know
00:22:32.21\00:22:36.32
that to be true. I know
that this is s not goodbye; it's
00:22:36.38\00:22:38.72
goodnight. I will see her again.
But ying to cheer me up with
00:22:38.75\00:22:42.42
the "yeah, but" is not helpful.
Trying to push me e through it
00:22:42.46\00:22:45.76
too fast is not helpful. It's
s been six weeks; shouldn't you
00:22:45.79\00:22:48.90
feel better by now? No, I
shouldndn't. I've scarcely
00:22:48.93\00:22:51.80
started by now. JB: People
say those things, don'n't they?
00:22:51.83\00:22:53.30
MT: Yes, thedo.
Yeah, they do. JB: Wow.
00:22:53.34\00:22:55.20
MT: There's a book at I
mentioned to you off air.
00:22:55.24\00:22:57.51
It's entled "Don't Ask For
the Dead Man's Golf Clubs."
00:22:57.54\00:22:59.54
It's a great
title!! JB: What a title.
00:22:59.57\00:23:01.31
MT: But, you know, it's really
a list of l the things we do
00:23:01.34\00:23:04.28
that kind of mess people up when
we're, qte, "trying to help"
00:23:04.31\00:23:07.72
in grieving. But I t
think coming alongside and just
00:23:07.75\00:23:10.92
listening to the stories.s.
Bringing Kleenex and being
00:23:10.95\00:23:13.42
comfortable with someone's
tearsrs, and not trying to fix
00:23:13.46\00:23:16.69
them. Don't try to cheer them
up. Lisn and be empathetic with
00:23:16.73\00:23:19.59
them, and let them work through
thatrocess themself. If they ask
00:23:19.63\00:23:21.80
you toto cheer them up, that's
fine. I think what mt people
00:23:21.83\00:23:24.27
want is just seone to
know that, yes, this hurts, and
00:23:24.30\00:23:27.14
I'd ,I'll be happy t to listen
to your stories, but I will be
00:23:27.17\00:23:29.64
there for you. JB:
Grief is all part of this
00:23:29.67\00:23:31.61
great battle that's
raging in the univse between
00:23:31.64\00:23:34.38
righteousness and sin. MT: Yeah.
00:23:34.41\00:23:35.84
JB: As we wrwrap up,
tell me how your faith in God
00:23:35.88\00:23:42.72
has be a practical help
to you as you grieve over
00:23:42.75\00:23:46.92
a devaststating loss. MT:
We mentioned that the four
00:23:46.96\00:23:50.16
activiti of grief in the
previous session were think,
00:23:50.19\00:23:53.26
talk, write and y. And I would
like to add to that a fifth one,
00:23:53.29\00:23:56.16
and that is pray. Even at time
when you've had a loss, it feels
00:23:56.20\00:23:59.67
likeke God is not there,
that you're talking to  empty
00:23:59.70\00:24:02.20
ceiling, pray anyway. It helps
you organi your thoughts, and
00:24:02.24\00:24:06.54
it, and it still pours out your
heart to t the only one who can
00:24:06.57\00:24:08.94
fix it for you. And so I
pray. ief has made that, made me
00:24:08.98\00:24:16.62
even more keenly aware of the
necessssity for my faith in God.
00:24:16.65\00:24:20.46
Some people lose faith
becausethey get angry. I'm not
00:24:20.49\00:24:24.43
angry, beuse God has not
withheld any of his promises,
00:24:24.46\00:24:27.13
anyny of his blessings. He's
s a comfort. He's a strength. He
00:24:27.13\00:24:30.87
cries with . Aneventually
he will dry my eyes.
00:24:30.90\00:24:34.07
JB: Amen. There's one
versrse I expect you've read
00:24:34.10\00:24:40.54
again and again.MT: Yeah.
00:24:40.58\00:24:41.94
JB: Tell me if this is
a help. The Bible says inn
00:24:41.98\00:24:47.85
rst Thessalonians,
chapter 4, "For this we say toto
00:24:47.88\00:24:51.29
you by t the word of the
Lord, that we who are alive d
00:24:51.32\00:24:54.49
reremain unto the coming of
the Lord will by nmeans proceed
00:24:54.52\00:24:57.46
those who o are asleep. For
the Lord himself will descd from
00:24:57.49\00:25:01.90
heaven w with a
shout, with the voice of an
00:25:01.93\00:25:04.30
archangel, and witthe trumpet
of God, and the dead in Christ
00:25:04.33\00:25:09.44
will rise first. Thewe who are
alive and remain shall be caught
00:25:09.47\00:25:12.91
up together withth him in the
clouds, to meet the Lord in the
00:25:12.94\00:25:15.28
air; and t thus we shall always
be with the Lord." And rse 18
00:25:15.31\00:25:18.85
says, "Therefo, comfort one
another with these words." Mike,
00:25:18.88\00:25:24.92
the Bible doesn't say those
words tatake away our pain.
00:25:24.95\00:25:26.96
MT: No, it does
not. JB: But it ds say
00:25:26.99\00:25:28.49
they offer comrt. MT: Yes.
00:25:28.52\00:25:29.72
JB: Do they offer you mfort?
MT: They do, because I know that
00:25:29.76\00:25:31.93
what I've said is not goodbye;
it's goodnig. I will see her
00:25:31.96\00:25:35.40
again in the morng. And that
brings comfort. Surprisingly, it
00:25:35.43\00:25:39.17
bringsarying degrees of
comfort at different phases.
00:25:39.20\00:25:42.17
JB: Sure. MT: There
are timemes when it's
00:25:42.20\00:25:43.51
t particularly comforting.
But overall, I know ththose
00:25:43.54\00:25:46.27
things to be true. And
long term, yes, it brings
00:25:46.31\00:25:48.61
comforort; it brings
hope. Because I grieve,
00:25:48.64\00:25:50.91
but not as tho who have
no hope, as we are counseled.
00:25:50.95\00:25:54.45
I know that my Lord is comining,
and when he comes Gayle will
00:25:54.48\00:25:58.02
rise, because heher faith was
in him. And I will see her agai
00:25:58.05\00:26:01.52
ThThat is great hope.
It's not goodbye; it's goodght.
00:26:01.56\00:26:03.99
JB: You know, more than I know,
that whayou've shared today
00:26:04.03\00:26:08.03
is going to be an immense help
and a comfort toto countless
00:26:08.06\00:26:10.70
MT: Sure. JB: Our Father in
heaven, we are peopople. Thanks
very much. Let's pray together.
00:26:12.53\00:26:16.17
grateful that the Bible declares
ththat you are the God of all
00:26:16.20\00:26:19.31
comfort. And thehere are
times in our experience where we
00:26:19.34\00:26:23.41
wrestle with emotions,
and hurts, and losses and joys
00:26:23.45\00:26:26.68
that we don't really know how
toprocess. We need your help.
00:26:26.72\00:26:32.79
And so thank you for beingur
help and our stay and our
00:26:32.82\00:26:36.02
strength. And friend, as, as I I
pray now and you're dealing with
00:26:36.06\00:26:40.96
perhaps, a loss, perhaps
grief, perhaps just difficulty
00:26:40.96\00:26:44.83
of some type in your
life, a are you willing to
00:26:44.87\00:26:48.37
say to Jesus, "Lord, I'm willing
to let y carry me through"?
00:26:48.40\00:26:53.64
Friend, don't give up. D Don't
quit. Don't fall back. Are you
00:26:53.68\00:26:57.88
willing to continuto say, "I'm
placing my faith and trust in
00:26:57.91\00:27:01.45
you"? Heavenly F Father, take
our hearts. We're not even sure
00:27:01.48\00:27:06.55
st the time how to give them.
Maybe we cannot. But w we can
00:27:06.59\00:27:09.62
ask you to take them, and keep
them, and minist to our hurts
00:27:09.66\00:27:14.00
and our confususions and our
lack of understanding. Give us
00:27:14.00\00:27:17.43
gce to day when Jesus returns.
In trt you now and always. And
we Jesus' name, Amemen. look
00:27:21.00\00:27:26.01
forward to thatat wonderful
Announcer: Make sure you get
00:27:26.94\00:27:28.41
yourur free copy of "Coping
with Grief" by John Bradshaw,
00:27:28.44\00:27:30.81
free to any
address in North Arica.
00:27:30.81\00:27:33.18
Call 1-800-253-3000. Or you can
write to u us at It Is Written,
00:27:33.21\00:27:38.15
P.O. Box 6, Chattanooga,
TN 37401. To download a a free
00:27:38.19\00:27:43.53
electronic version, pease visit
us o online at itiswritten.com.
00:27:43.56\00:27:47.86
There is way through
life's toughest times.
00:27:47.86\00:27:50.37
"Coping with
Grief" " by John Bradshaw.
00:27:50.40\00:27:53.44
JB: Thank you souch for
joining us today. I'm looking
00:27:54.04\00:27:55.94
forward to seeing you
again next time. Until then,n,
00:27:55.97\00:27:58.24
remember, "It is written, 'Man
shall not live by bread alone,
00:27:58.27\00:28:03.61
but by every word that proceedss
from the mouth of God.'"
00:28:03.65\00:28:07.92
¤[Music]¤
00:28:07.95\00:28:14.66