[Music]
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[Musicic]
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JB: This is It Is
Writteten. I'm John Bradshaw.
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Thanks for joining me. We both
kn that there are some things
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in life that we are going
to experience no matterer what.
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And some of those expeences
we wouldn't choose to experience
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if we had a choice. But ny
of them, we don't have a choice.
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One of them is gef. Grief
hurts, it's painful, and you're
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going to expxperience sooner
or later. That's just the wayife
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goesBut what is grief, and
how do we deal with grief, a and
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what should a person do - --what
could a person do, when grief
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strikes clclose to home? Well,
I'm blessed to have withe in the
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studio toy a good friend, Mike
Tucker. Pastor Mike Tucker w
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who's thspeaker and director of
Faith for Today, a Chrisistian
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ministry. You may well have seen
Pastor Tucker hosting Lifestyle
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Magazine or leading out in one
of his "Mad Abouout Marriage"
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Seminars. . Mike Tucker,
thanks for joining me today.
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Mike Tucker: It is aoy to be
here with you, John. Thank you.
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JB: I'm going to start at t
the beginning. What's grief?
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How do wdefine that?
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MT: Grief is an emotional,
pshological, physical reaction
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to any expererience of loss.
It can be loss through death,oss
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of a job, loss of a body
part --ything else in your life
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that is significant, there
may bebe a grief response to it.
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JB: Now, one of the reasons
I'm speaking with you is because
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you're a trained counselor. MT:
Um-hmm. JB: A licensed marriage
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therapist, family y expert. And
you have some experience with
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grief as well, and we're going
to talk ababout that in just a
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moment. Grief is just one
of thosthings that everybody is
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going to expernce. MT:
Everyone. You don't get out of
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life without grief. And most of
yoyour viewers have already had
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some experience with grief.
To what degree? That varies
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according to life experiences.
But everyone gets it. Everyone
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has it. Some people ink that
Christians shouldn't grieve.
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That's just a misnomer. You have
to grieve. Eveveryone grieves.
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JB: Now, there a certain
things that you might ought
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to do o when grief comes.
MT: Yeah. JB: We'll talkbout
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ththose soon. MT: Sure.
JB: So before we expla it.
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There's probably
ways you n equip yourself
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to deawith grief
before it comes. MT: Um-hmm.
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JB: Okay.  MT: Yeah,
especially if you see a loss
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comingng, you can engage in
what we call anticipato grief:
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being willing to go ahead and
experiencece those tears, and
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trying to anticipate what life
will be e like without them. But
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I think beyond that is aatter of
keeping relationships healthy,
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and keeping yourlf personally
health: physically fit, with
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positive relationships and a
positiveve faith. But having an
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appropriate picture of
the nature of GoGod, his
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personality, his character
--what he hass promised you,
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what he has not promised you
--w-will actually help prepare
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you for grief. JB: Okay, now, so
you can grieveve about different
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things. MT: Yeah JB: I could, I
could lose a chished possession.
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MT: Yes. : I can grieve that.
MT: Um-hmm. JB: Okay, what a are
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the inapappropriate ways to deal
with grief? What arthe grief
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mistakes that people often make?
MT: So people try to stuff it
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or ignore it, act like it's not
ere. They will deny it. Other
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people will try to out-medicate
it, out-drinit, something of
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that n nature. Some people
will try to outwork it.hey just
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won't give expression to
the pain by crying. They w won't
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allow themselves to do
those things. Those e all
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inappropriate ways. other
inappropriate way would be to
build a shrinene to,
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toto that which is lost.
You know, sometimes peop build a
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shrine in their home to a person
who's diedand for years on, no
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one can touch thatYou
know, to do something like that
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temporarily may be
understandable. But w when you
do this and it lasts for
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years, that cabe another
inappropriate way to deal with
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it. But just a refusal to
deal with the pain,n, to give
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expression throu tears,
through talking --those are all
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inappropriate responses. JB:
As a pastor I speak from time to
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time with peopople who will
tell me, "Oh, I'm doing fine."
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: Yeah. JB: Or, or
they'll tell me, "I'm not doingg
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finene." I'll dig a
little deeper and... MT: Um-m.
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: ...you know, "It's been six
weeks since my loveded one died,
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and I find myself ststill
weeping, and I just wish I
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was...." That's just
not realistic, is it?
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MT: No, it's notThe
average recovery time for a
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signgnificant loss is one to
two years, although u can grieve
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actively for up to five
years annot be pathological with
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that grief. And even whehen
we talk about recovery, that
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doesn't mean tt you won't ever
cry again. It doesn't mean you
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won't miss that person
aga. That will be a part of your
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experience for the resest
of your life, especially with a
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significant loss. But it
may mean that you comeme to the
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point where e it's not the first
thing on your mind every mning
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when you wake up, and the l last
thing you think about before you
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go to bed, w when you finally
get to that point of recoveryso
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that you n function more
normally. JB: I think it's
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importatant for people to know
what's normal... MTMT: Yeah. JB:
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...what's acceceptable, so
that they don't think they have
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problem they don't have. I
remember asking mywife's
grandmother --Grandma was
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around 80 athe time, and I
discovered that she'd had a baby
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girlShe raised three or four
boys. I should know whetheher
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it's threree or four, shouldn't
I? MT: [Laughs] JB: Andhe gave
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birth to a little girl who died
very, ve young, as an infant.
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And so this loss that s'd
experience had been about 60
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years before, 55 to 60 years
befor And I said to her,
"Grandma, you had a
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daughterer. I never knew that."
And she said, "Yes, -" and
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just from out t of nowhere,
her voice choked and tears cam
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MT: Yeahyes. JB: Fifty-five
to sixty years later, she wasas
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grieving a loss. MT: Um-hmm.
JB: That's n normal, isn't it?
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: Yes, it is normal. There's
nothing wrong with thahat.
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Because this is an impactful
experience foyour life. You
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never get over, truly, the loss.
You, you may be more comfortable
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with it; over this loss for the
rest of you may be able to
funion again. But you may have
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tears your life. JB:B: Let's say
somedy is a secretary working in
an office situation. . MT: Yeah
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JBJB: Well, it doesn't have
to be a secretary. Icould be a
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departmental director. Or
a guyy works in a factory.
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MT: Uh-huhuh. JB:
So you're surrounded by
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people. You've got to go backk
to life. You're putting in your
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eight to ten hours
a dayay. MT: Um-hmm.
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JB: But grieis just all over
you, and grief begs expression.
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at's the right
thing for people to do?
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MT: Well, the righght thing for
you to do if you're the person
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experiencing this is to
recognizize that your tears are
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going to come, and that's okay.
d when they come, don't make
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an apology for them. Just alloww
it to happen. And if the people
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around you a savvy and they
are, they are understanding,
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then they're goingo accept
that, and it's going to be
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normal. So I would say, make
sure that you give y yourself
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ample room for, for mistakes.
You u make sure you double-check
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your work. Take frequentnt
breaks if possible. Um, and then
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don't be afraid to give
expression to the pain. Don't be
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afraid to cry, and don't
be afraid to tell the stories,
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because that's all a part of
the process. JB:o, to experience
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grief and to internalize
grief, to express grief, is all
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apprpropriate and, and fine.
MT: It is. JB: But when's a pern
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going too far? I know, this m,
it's going to differ from person
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to person. MT: It will. JB: And,
uh, youu get the very unthinking
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people who say, "Are you not
over tt already? It's been six
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months." MT: Yeah. JB: That's
theast thing you want to say to
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a person. When is expresng grief
become --when does that become
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too much? MT: To give a timeline
or a specific ananswer to that
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is difficult. But there comes
a titime when grief no longer
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becomemes an expression of your
pain, but becomes a nument to
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self-pity. Somimes we can like
the negative attention we get
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from the expression of pain.nd
again, that may not happen the
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first year. It may not happen
until after that. But there
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comes a time when you realize
that you, you'rere doing nothing
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but grieving. And you're t
telling the stories; you're
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crying with every event.
Erything becomes about your
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loss. That becomes very selfish
and it becomes ther myopic. And
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so, to learn that there are
appropriate times to ge
expression to this, and
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there comes the time when you
actually havave to say goodbye
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to the relationship that used
to be, d withdraw that emotional
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energy, and no longer make thi
a monument to you and to your
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selflf-pity, but, instead, begin
to celebrate the le that was,
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and celebrate the things that
yohad. Again, that's going to
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vary forvery person, but there
does come a time when it's's
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appropriate to dthat. JB:
Now, you're speaking to this
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subjbject... MT: Yes. JB:
...from first-hand expernce.
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MT: Absolutely. JB: We're
gogoing to talk about that in
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just a mont. More with Pastor
Mike Tucker and grief when n we
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come back. Don't go away.
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Grief. Sadly, it's ainevitable
part of life. There's no
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escaping loss in this woworld
and the pain that comes along
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with it. Grief can be disabling,
intense andebilitating. So
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make sure yoyou get your free
copy of "Coping with Grief"y
00:08:49.82\00:08:51.79
John Bradsha There
is a way through life's
00:08:51.83\00:08:55.13
toughest times. Learn how you
or someone yoyou care about can
00:08:55.16\00:08:58.83
cope with grief. Discover
principles that wilill show you
00:08:58.87\00:09:02.34
how to return to a life full
of jojoy and hope. Please, don't
00:09:02.37\00:09:06.71
let grief be any more d
difficult than it has to be.
When the burde of loss
00:09:06.74\00:09:09.64
seem to be more than you can
handle, there is a w way you can
00:09:09.68\00:09:12.25
cope with grief. To recee the
book "Coping with Grief," call
00:09:12.28\00:09:15.78
right now 1-800-25253-3000.
There's absolutely no cost or
00:09:15.82\00:09:20.49
obligation, and our lineare
open 24 hours a day. If the
00:09:20.52\00:09:23.99
lines are busy, please
t try again. We'll send
00:09:24.03\00:09:27.40
"Coping with Gririef" free to
any address in North America. Ca
00:09:27.46\00:09:30.67
1-800-253-3-3000, or you
can write to us at It Is Written
00:09:30.70\00:09:35.90
P O Box 6, Chattanooga,TN,
37401. To downloload a free
00:09:35.94\00:09:41.34
electronic version of "Copining
with Grief," please visit us
00:09:41.38\00:09:44.31
online at ItIsWrittecom.
To get your free copy of
00:09:44.35\00:09:48.55
"Coping with Grief," call
right now, 1-800-253-3000.
00:09:48.58\00:09:53.36
JB: : It Is Written is a
faith - based ministry, d your
00:09:53.39\00:09:56.69
suort makes it possible for us
to share God's good d news with
00:09:56.73\00:10:00.20
thworld. Your tax-deductible
gift can be sent to the e
00:10:00.20\00:10:03.50
address on your screen,
or through our website atat
00:10:03.53\00:10:07.94
ItIsWritten.com. Thank you
for your conontinued prayerful
00:10:07.97\00:10:10.64
support. [Music]
00:10:10.67\00:10:13.84
JB: This is ItIt Is Written.
I'm John Bradshaw. Thanks for
00:10:13.88\00:10:16.75
joining me today. My g
guest is Pastor Mike Tucker from
00:10:16.78\00:10:19.95
Faith for Today. Mike, we've
been talking for a a few moments
00:10:19.98\00:10:23.08
about ief. We alluded to
your personal experience with g
00:10:23.12\00:10:27.12
grief. MT: Um-h. JB:
Tell me more about that.
00:10:27.16\00:10:28.26
MT: Recently I've had
thee biggest loss of my life.
00:10:28.29\00:10:31.93
My wifof forty years, Gayle
Tucker, passed away. You k know,
00:10:31.96\00:10:36.97
we were partners in ministry.
Uhwe had worked together as
00:10:37.00\00:10:41.40
pastors and in telelevision
ministry for forty years.
00:10:41.44\00:10:44.81
Everything I did w intricately
involved with her. JB: It wasn't
00:10:44.84\00:10:48.48
really a matr of Mike Tucker.
Gayle. MT: Mike and Gayle. JB:
Mike and Gayle. . Mike and
00:10:51.81\00:10:53.68
Gayle. MT: No. JB: It was Mike
and MT: Mike and Gayle.
Everything we did. Televivision,
00:10:53.72\00:10:56.62
marriage seminars, pastoral
ministries. She was a pastor as
00:10:56.65\00:10:59.89
well. So everaspect of my life
was intricately involved with h
00:10:59.92\00:11:02.52
her. She was myery best friend.
We were traveling all over the,
00:11:02.56\00:11:06.19
t the world dodoing marriage
seminars, among other things.
00:11:06.23\00:11:09.20
Anwe were in Vancouver, British
Columbia, wh her right hand
00:11:09.23\00:11:12.27
started to go n numb. She
thought she had slept on it
00:11:12.30\00:11:16.67
wrong.ut by Saturday afterernoon
when we were doing a marriage
00:11:16.71\00:11:19.41
presentatn, her ght hand would
work so poorly that she had to
00:11:19.47\00:11:22.11
hold d the microphone in
her left hand for threand a half
00:11:22.14\00:11:24.58
hours making the presentation,
because shee knew it would fall
00:11:24.61\00:11:26.92
to the floor if she held it
in the right. Isaid, "This is
00:11:26.95\00:11:29.32
wrong, we got, I've got to
get you to the hospital." Shehe
00:11:29.35\00:11:31.29
said, "Wait till we get back
in the country, tomorrow," whi
00:11:31.32\00:11:33.76
would be March 6. I said,
"Okay." So we flew Dallas, and
00:11:33.79\00:11:38.59
when we landed, I said, "Now,
which hospital do you want mto
00:11:38.59\00:11:40.56
take you to, because you're not
going home." And so shehe told
00:11:40.60\00:11:43.47
me which hospital, I took her
therere, and immediately they
00:11:43.50\00:11:46.30
diagnosed strokes. When is
insane to me, because the woman
00:11:46.33\00:11:49.97
n was so active. She was
not overweight, nocholesterol. I
00:11:50.01\00:11:53.74
mean, no risk factoror stroke.
JB: The picture of health.
00:11:53.78\00:11:55.61
MT: Absolutely. She played
vovolleyball every week with a
00:11:55.64\00:11:58.58
group of ladies she'e'd
play volleyball with for over 20
00:11:58.58\00:12:00.95
years. And it took another
week and a half o of testing to
00:12:00.98\00:12:03.55
figure out t that she had stage
four pancreatic cancer at had
00:12:03.59\00:12:07.32
already metastasized to her
liver. And the liverer, one of
00:12:07.36\00:12:11.49
the side effects of liver r
cancer, can be a condition they
00:12:11.53\00:12:14.03
call "sticky blood," which ans
it was creating blood clots in
00:12:14.10\00:12:17.17
her body, and when thosese broke
apart it went to the brain, and
00:12:17.20\00:12:19.57
that's where the strokes
came from. Thehe stroke was a
00:12:19.60\00:12:22.60
symptom. She was going to die of
pancreatic canc. JB: Now, if you
00:12:22.64\00:12:26.74
don't mindnd. MT: Please. JB:
She was going to die. MTYes.  
00:12:26.78\00:12:29.68
JB: Pancreic cancer typically is
a one-way street. MT: Yes, i it
00:12:29.71\00:12:33.21
is. JB: But... MT: Yeah. JB:
Peopl can be healed. MT: Yes.
00:12:33.25\00:12:37.19
JB: God is a great God. MTYes.
JB: You know God well. MT:
00:12:37.22\00:12:40.49
Absolutely. JB: You have for
many years. MT:T: Um-hmm. JB:
00:12:40.52\00:12:43.46
But you felt then --how did you
process that? Were you living on
00:12:43.49\00:12:46.16
hope, were praying foher to be
healed, or how quickly did you
00:12:46.23\00:12:49.43
get to resignation, I think
we're going to losher? MT: You
00:12:49.46\00:12:53.34
know, I, I was realistic
enough to realize that uess God
00:12:53.37\00:12:56.47
performed a miracle, Ias going
to lose my wife. And she knew
00:12:56.50\00:13:00.44
that as welell. I've worked as
a chaain in hospitals for years.
00:13:00.48\00:13:04.51
I've done, I've seen enough of
this. I've worked w with hospice
00:13:04.55\00:13:07.18
patients. I know, and she knew
as well, that unlessod
intervened, we were
00:13:07.22\00:13:11.45
going to lose her. And she
was ready. She was, she was okay
00:13:11.49\00:13:15.49
with that. She wanted to b
healed. We had an anointing
00:13:15.52\00:13:17.86
service, as is called for in
Jamemes. And we, we had a prayer
00:13:17.89\00:13:22.03
for healing, believing fully
that God cld heal her. Because
00:13:22.03\00:13:24.43
I, like you, have seen
miraculous healingng. JB: Sure
00:13:24.47\00:13:27.80
And so I knew that God was
capable. But Ilso know, and
00:13:27.84\00:13:31.27
knew, that God might say no.
At least, rig now. Every prayer
00:13:31.31\00:13:35.84
for heing is answered
yes. Sometimes immediately.
00:13:35.88\00:13:38.35
Sometimes over t time with
prayer and medicine and surgery.
00:13:38.38\00:13:41.85
d sometimes thhealing
will take place resurrection.
00:13:41.88\00:13:44.15
JBThat's right.
MT: We asked for option
00:13:44.19\00:13:45.39
A or B, but we'r're
willing to accept option C.
00:13:45.42\00:13:49.26
And so yes, I knew
that this was a realal
00:13:49.29\00:13:52.06
possibility,y, and she did too.
So we prepared for the worswhile
00:13:52.06\00:13:55.10
hoping for the best. JB: You
said Gayle w was okay with that.
00:13:55.13\00:13:58.93
MT: Ye. JB: Tell me, if you
wouldn't mind, what she wewent
00:13:58.97\00:14:03.34
through. There's your wifefe of
40 years, someone--everyone who
00:14:03.37\00:14:07.14
knew her, loved r. So you
weren't alone in that. MT: Yeah.
00:14:07.18\00:14:11.11
JB: How does a person take that
kind of f news? Gayle at stage 4
00:14:11.15\00:14:14.82
pancncreatic cancer.
It's metastasized. We know e
00:14:14.85\00:14:17.32
chances are about this good.
M Yeah, yeah. JB: How does a
00:14:17.35\00:14:20.19
person deal with that? MT: Youou
know, obviously it was a big
00:14:20.22\00:14:22.92
blow ther. And it took her a
while to just kind of digegest
00:14:22.96\00:14:26.56
this. And when she began
to realize , I asked her, "Are
00:14:26.59\00:14:30.23
you angry? Are you frighted?"
She said, "No." She said, "I've
00:14:30.27\00:14:33.54
hasixty years of immaculate
health." And she had. . I mean,
00:14:33.57\00:14:36.87
she wavibrate and healthy and
active. And she said, "S"Some
00:14:36.91\00:14:40.44
peopleever get a day. I've
had forty years of a wonderfrful
00:14:40.44\00:14:44.08
marriage, and some people never
know that. I I've had over forty
00:14:44.11\00:14:46.51
years of exciting ministstry,
fulfilling ministry. I've got
00:14:46.55\00:14:49.42
children and grandchildrennd
extended family and friends. And
00:14:49.45\00:14:52.75
someme people never know any
of that. For me to  angry that
00:14:52.79\00:14:55.59
thatat only lasted sixty years
instead of eighty ems to be
00:14:55.62\00:14:58.63
somewhat ungrateful, and I'm
not going to be ungrateful to my
00:14:58.66\00:15:02.03
Lo. I just thank him for what
I've had." JB: Amen.n. MT: That
00:15:02.06\00:15:05.03
s her attitude. JB: Wow. MT: And
she got that attititude early
00:15:05.07\00:15:07.80
on. She never expericed fear,
because she knew her heart was
00:15:07.84\00:15:11.07
righght with Jesus. She never
experienced anger,ecause she
00:15:11.11\00:15:14.44
was gratefeful for what she'd
had. And amazingly, I had aeady
00:15:14.48\00:15:18.61
had the e same thoughts --which
is strange for me, becae,
00:15:18.65\00:15:21.75
trutully, anger has always
been my go-to emotion. Butut I'd
00:15:21.78\00:15:24.79
gone through a preous loss, a
financial and a career loss, at
00:15:24.82\00:15:28.72
an early point. We lost
our hoe. We lost our savings. I
00:15:28.76\00:15:31.96
thought I'd lost my career. I
thought it was allll over. And I
00:15:31.99\00:15:34.40
hadn done anything. And my
response was anger. Becaususe at
00:15:34.46\00:15:37.83
the time I I was giving 30
percent of my gross income tthe
00:15:37.87\00:15:40.44
chururch. I was volunteering as
a pastor while worng in private
00:15:40.47\00:15:43.47
business. All sorts of exciting
things were happppening with the
00:15:43.51\00:15:46.78
church. It w growing like
crazy. And my anger was, "God,
00:15:46.81\00:15:49.61
what did you wt? Forty
percent? I don't get it." I
00:15:49.64\00:15:52.48
thought because of my
hard labor, my gerosity, the
00:15:52.51\00:15:56.48
success of the ministry,y, that
God owed me better than what he
00:15:56.52\00:15:59.32
gave me. And when I realized
at anger comes when we think
00:15:59.35\00:16:02.99
we're getting leless from
God than what he owes us, then I
00:16:03.02\00:16:07.03
begato realize that I had sinned
in my life by expeing something
00:16:07.10\00:16:10.40
from Gohe'd never promised. I
confessed that to him, andnd he
00:16:10.43\00:16:14.20
rgave me. And I promised, by
God's grace, I wouldld make sure
00:16:14.24\00:16:17.27
my lived theology would d be
congruent with my expressed or
00:16:17.31\00:16:23.98
my preached theology. And that
happenedSo that when Gayle got
00:16:24.01\00:16:28.22
sick, I realized, I've had a
blessising that was beyond what
00:16:28.25\00:16:31.15
most people ever experience.
:So you weren't experiencing
00:16:31.19\00:16:34.06
anger eieither. MT: No anger
either. In fact, it's be six
00:16:34.09\00:16:36.49
months since her death, and
I'm ststill not angry. JB: Forty
00:16:36.52\00:16:39.26
years of marriage. MT: Yeah.
JB: A catarophic loss. MT: Yes.
00:16:39.29\00:16:43.63
JB: No anger. . MT: No anger.
There's incredible pain. JB:Su
00:16:43.67\00:16:47.67
There's credible emptiness and
loneliness. There's, there's's,
00:16:47.70\00:16:52.34
I cry at unexpected times.
But no ger. Because God has not
00:16:52.37\00:16:55.64
shortchanged me one iota. He
has giveven me more than what he
00:16:55.68\00:16:59.41
ever promised me. And so since
he has giveven me more than what
00:16:59.45\00:17:03.79
he promised, I I have no
reason for anger, because most
00:17:03.82\00:17:06.92
peopleever exrience what I've
had. I celebrate what I've had.
00:17:06.96\00:17:11.16
I I miss what I've had.ut I'm
not angry with God. JB: There's
00:17:11.19\00:17:14.93
more. We're going toto come back
to the story we began in just a
00:17:14.96\00:17:17.30
ment. Pastor Mike Tucker,
we're deing today with grief
00:17:17.33\00:17:21.00
--something we all must
experience, and sosomething
00:17:21.04\00:17:24.81
that, if it hasn't come nenear
you, it will. Today's program
00:17:24.87\00:17:28.64
very important. We'll be
back with more ijust a moment.
00:17:28.68\00:17:31.28
"Every Worord" is a one-minute,
Bible-based daily devoonal
00:17:32.45\00:17:35.72
presented by Pastor
John Bradshaw andnd designed
00:17:35.75\00:17:38.89
especially for busy people like
you. Recieve a a daily spiritual
00:17:38.92\00:17:42.76
boost. Watch "Every Word."
00:17:42.79\00:17:44.93
[Music]
00:17:45.23\00:17:49.96
JB: It's's an
enormous shame when
00:17:50.00\00:17:51.20
people lose hope in God. But
ithappens. And it's happened to
00:17:51.23\00:17:54.60
some oututstanding people. Think
about John the Bapti and his
00:17:54.64\00:17:57.87
tempmporary discouragement.
The cousin of Jesus d boldly
00:17:57.91\00:18:01.38
proclaimeded, "Behold the Lamb
of God who takes away t sin of
00:18:01.41\00:18:04.81
the e world." But one day he
sent some of his diiples to ask
00:18:04.85\00:18:07.92
Jesus, "Are you the coming
one, or do weook for another?"
00:18:07.95\00:18:11.35
That's Matththew 11, verse 3.
John had been convinced. But w
00:18:11.39\00:18:15.06
he's in p prison, and Jesus,
who he believed to be theessiah,
00:18:15.09\00:18:18.36
hadn't got the Romans out of
rael, and hadn't got John out
00:18:18.39\00:18:21.40
of prison. John knew Jesus was
the Messiah, but he let go of
00:18:21.43\00:18:26.43
faith and started to make
judgments by what he c could
00:18:26.47\00:18:29.97
see. John couldn't see too well.
Jesus was the ssiah, still is.
00:18:30.01\00:18:33.88
And our difficult circumstances
wot ever change that. I'm John
00:18:33.91\00:18:38.31
Bradshaw for It Is Written.
Let's live t today by every
00:18:38.35\00:18:41.62
word." [Music]
00:18:45.15\00:18:46.32
JB: Thanks for joining
me toy on It Is Written. I'm
00:18:46.35\00:18:48.76
John B Bradshaw. My guest today,
from Faith for Tod, Pastor
00:18:48.79\00:18:52.09
Mike Tucke Mike, we're talking
about your own experience wiwith
00:18:52.13\00:18:55.13
grief. MT:m-hmm. JB: A couple
of moments ago you shared hohow
00:18:55.16\00:18:58.47
Gayle was diagnosed with sge 4
pancreatic cancer. We got about
00:18:58.50\00:19:03.41
to the place where she was
accepting g of this diagnosis
00:19:03.44\00:19:07.44
and ready for whatever God had
for her. So what happened next?
00:19:07.44\00:19:10.91
MT: Well, you know, we got the
diagnosis s March 16 of 2016.
00:19:10.95\00:19:15.15
First symptoms March 3 to March
6,6, and then the diagnosis
00:19:15.18\00:19:19.25
March 16. And so we began
to exami our options. We were
00:19:19.29\00:19:24.09
praying for hehealing. But she
wanted to be Started with home
healthth, and eventually went to
00:19:28.73\00:19:31.13
hospice when home. And so wtook
her home. it was appropria. But
basically, she wanted to get as
00:19:31.17\00:19:34.47
strong as she could d and
enjoy the time she had with her
00:19:34.50\00:19:36.74
family. So we started d calling
in family members. We had to
00:19:36.77\00:19:40.98
limit the number of friend
visits because we have so many
00:19:41.01\00:19:43.51
in the area, and it was draining
forr her. JB: Sure. MT: And so,
00:19:43.55\00:19:46.75
so many I wanted to bring in, b
I couldn't. But she just started
00:19:46.78\00:19:50.65
spending her days making sure
that things were right between
00:19:50.69\00:19:53.22
her and the Lord, and that she
spent as much timeme with her
00:19:53.25\00:19:55.96
children and grandchildren
and siblingsnd her mother as
00:19:55.99\00:19:59.63
possible. And so there were days
of joy and days of laughter. And
00:19:59.66\00:20:03.77
she entered ininto a coma on
April 8, and then passed away
00:20:03.80\00:20:09.20
Apl 10 She was, her daughters
were by h side. I was with, with
00:20:09.24\00:20:13.34
her. One of the, the sisters
werere with her. She passed
00:20:13.38\00:20:17.08
peacefully while we were praying
wi her and touching her and
00:20:17.11\00:20:19.61
loving on he And she fell
asleep in Jesus on April 10 in
00:20:19.65\00:20:23.28
the afternoooon, about 5:47
p.m. JB: Now, the first sympts.
00:20:23.35\00:20:30.26
MT: Yeah. JB: March 3. MT:
March 3, when her hand went
00:20:30.29\00:20:34.23
numb. JB: And then gooye.
MT: April 10. JB: Six weeks.
00:20:34.30\00:20:38.70
MT: Yeah. JB:
There are couple of
00:20:38.73\00:20:42.84
questions I cod ask at once.
One is, that's really quick.
00:20:42.87\00:20:47.34
MT: Very quick. JB:
From having yo ministry
00:20:47.38\00:20:48.51
partner, your life partner,
you're traveling t together,
00:20:48.54\00:20:50.05
you're doing God's work.
A she's, evidently, in full
00:20:50.08\00:20:53.15
health. MT: Full health.
JB: Six wes later she's gone.
00:20:53.18\00:20:55.98
MTMT: Yeah. JB: At the
same time, Mike, that's n quick.
00:20:56.02\00:21:00.19
Quick is hit by a bus. MT: Yeah,
yeah.. JB: That's quick. MT:
00:21:00.22\00:21:03.56
Yeah. JB: So I wonder if you
can talkwith me about, about the
00:21:03.59\00:21:06.80
emotions that you experience
and how you dealt with, or how
00:21:06.83\00:21:09.66
you're dealing with... MT: Um-h.
00:21:09.70\00:21:11.17
JB: ...uh, l losing a perfectly
health wife, just like tt.
00:21:11.20\00:21:15.64
Where e does that take
you? How do you wrestle withhat?
00:21:15.67\00:21:19.31
MTI wanted to be
as strong as I could
00:21:19.34\00:21:20.71
around her. But I, I wept like
crazy. Just trying to get my
00:21:20.74\00:21:24.65
nd around, anticipating what it
was going to be likike without
00:21:24.68\00:21:27.25
her, and just t accepting
the reality that unless Jesus
00:21:27.28\00:21:30.25
interven, I was going to lose
her. The things that I've bebeen
00:21:30.29\00:21:32.75
trying to do is, is to thi.
When the thoughts come, I think
00:21:32.79\00:21:36.32
them fully. I weep when the,e,
when the tears come. I talk
00:21:36.36\00:21:40.46
about it, I, I s share my
feelings with other people. I
00:21:40.50\00:21:44.83
write aut it. , I pray about it.
Those things are helpful. The e
00:21:44.87\00:21:48.97
other ththing I do is I walk.
When I'm home, I walk anyere
00:21:49.00\00:21:51.91
from eight to tlve miles a day.
Those are prayer time for me,
00:21:51.94\00:21:55.11
anand it's thinking time. It
gives mehe opportunity to focus
00:21:55.14\00:21:58.08
on nothing more than, than my
loss and my Goand, and my prayer
00:21:58.11\00:22:02.95
time. And those things have
heed me. Talking with my family,
00:22:02.98\00:22:05.89
talking just the stories of her
loss and with friends, tellining
the stories over and over again.
00:22:09.16\00:22:12.33
Not the death, b but the stories
of r life together. JB: Sure.
MT: Of meeting her, the e first
00:22:12.36\00:22:16.00
date, you kn, and the proposal.
Telling those stories over a and
00:22:16.03\00:22:20.00
over again are important to
me. And d then the stories of
00:22:20.04\00:22:22.94
ministry together, the different
places we've be, the decisions
00:22:22.97\00:22:26.64
for Christ we've witnesssses.
Those are the things that are
00:22:26.68\00:22:29.31
helping me. And then being close
to my family, ju holding onto my
00:22:29.34\00:22:32.45
daughters, my grandchildren, and
helplping them grieve as well.
00:22:32.48\00:22:35.05
Those are the activities. But
before Gayle died,d, she wrote a
00:22:35.08\00:22:39.65
letter to each of ouchildren
and to our two grandchildren. It
00:22:39.69\00:22:43.22
was a letter to be g given to
them about six weeks after the
00:22:43.26\00:22:46.46
death. By wririte I mean
she dictated and I had to type,
00:22:46.49\00:22:49.16
becse her hand didn't work k and
she had lost her sight by the
00:22:49.20\00:22:52.47
end. And afr she finished that,
she said, "I need to write a
letetter to you." I
00:22:52.50\00:22:54.70
said, "Well, we have no one
to dictate that to. I I mean,
00:22:54.74\00:22:56.97
basically, youou're stuck. And
what are you going to say to m
00:22:57.01\00:22:59.04
you haven't said every dayor
forty years anyway?" She said,
00:22:59.07\00:23:02.08
"Y may be right." I said,
"So, for argument's sake, w what
00:23:02.11\00:23:04.45
would you say?" She said, "The's
nothing to regret. We had a
00:23:04.48\00:23:08.42
great life together. Don't,
dodon't beat yourself up for any
00:23:08.45\00:23:11.02
mistakes. No regrets. That's
number one."nd number two, she
00:23:11.05\00:23:14.42
said, "Live our life." That's
what shehe wanted for me. Our
00:23:14.46\00:23:18.43
life has been faith, family and
ministstry. That's who we are,
00:23:18.46\00:23:25.20
that's what we've done. JB:
I want t to ask you this. No
00:23:25.23\00:23:27.70
regrets. MT: Yeah. JB: Easy
to sa MT: Oh, yeah. JB: Easy to
00:23:27.74\00:23:30.81
say, no regrets. Hey, Mike, when
I'm m gone, have no regrets.
00:23:30.84\00:23:34.24
MTYeah. JB: Really? MT: Yeah.
JB: Do you have any y regrets?
00:23:34.28\00:23:36.44
MT: I really don't. You know,
I've made miststakes. JB: Sure.
00:23:36.48\00:23:39.35
MT: I haven't bebeen the perfect
husband. But every time I thin
00:23:39.38\00:23:42.12
of those things, I remember what
she saidid. No regrets. That
00:23:42.15\00:23:45.12
means that she had forgiven
meor any mistake, just as I've
00:23:45.15\00:23:47.66
forgiven her. JB: I think it's
important to be le to look back
00:23:47.69\00:23:49.92
on mistakes made... MT: Yeah.
JB: ...withihin the context.
00:23:49.96\00:23:52.06
We're human,n, we're going
to make mistakes. MT: Yeah,
00:23:52.09\00:23:54.00
absotely. She had an amazing
memory.he could forget every
00:23:54.03\00:23:57.07
mistake I ever mad So why would
I beat myself up over something
00:23:57.10\00:24:00.84
thahat she had forgiven me for?
G has forgiven me, and he says
00:24:00.87\00:24:04.17
he rembers my sins no more.
So for me to remember it anand
00:24:04.21\00:24:07.54
bring it useems foolhardy. JB:
What I believe is that even w
00:24:07.58\00:24:10.71
when you ha some kind of
catastrophe in your life, if
you're a a believer
00:24:10.75\00:24:14.52
in God, you n still see God's
hand. MT: Yeah. JB: Right? Iss
00:24:14.55\00:24:18.32
that right? MT: Yeah. JB:
Did yoyou see God's hand through
00:24:18.35\00:24:20.86
this process.s. MT: Yes, I did.
JB: How do you see God's hanin
00:24:20.89\00:24:24.49
what's a dister? MT: Yeah. The
first place I see it is in thehe
00:24:24.53\00:24:28.60
way she died. She died as she
lived. And whwhen people saw the
00:24:28.63\00:24:32.20
congruence between what she
lived and how shdied, they were
00:24:32.23\00:24:36.04
brought to faith. Another way tt
I see this is that, even though
00:24:36.04\00:24:39.24
we've had a close-knit family,
this has broughght us even
00:24:39.27\00:24:42.28
closer together. My daughters
and I are tight. And I, I I
00:24:42.31\00:24:46.38
don't make decisions withouthem.
But another thing is that as
00:24:46.41\00:24:49.68
I've given expression to mymy
pain. I've written about it.
00:24:49.72\00:24:52.59
I've shared it openly from ththe
pulpit. And when they see me
00:24:52.62\00:24:55.76
doing this, it gives them
courage and gives themem hope.
00:24:55.79\00:24:57.99
Those arsome of the, just a few
of the ways that I see Godod's
00:24:58.03\00:25:02.70
hand i in this. JB: We just have
a moment. Someone'experiencing
00:25:02.73\00:25:06.70
grief... MT: Yeah. JB: ...and
it just seems like e the end.
00:25:06.74\00:25:11.01
MT: Yeah. JB: Now,
very obviously, onean go on,
00:25:11.04\00:25:16.64
because for x thousand years
of human history people have...
00:25:16.68\00:25:18.58
MT: We've e done so.
JB: ...been going on. Yeah.
00:25:18.61\00:25:19.48
MT: We've done
so. JB: What do you sa
00:25:19.51\00:25:20.82
to that person who's
grieving, uh, anand just sees
00:25:20.85\00:25:25.55
blackness ahead? How can that
peperson go on? MT: First of
00:25:25.59\00:25:29.82
all, this won't last forever.t
will seem like it. But the
00:25:29.86\00:25:33.36
darkest part of it will not t
last forever. God has promised
00:25:33.40\00:25:36.13
to be a very p present help in
this time, even though at tes he
00:25:36.16\00:25:38.60
seems even further away because
of youour pain. That's normal.
00:25:38.67\00:25:42.10
He's promised to get you through
thisHe will. JB: The Bible
00:25:42.14\00:25:45.51
promises us, in Psalm 30 and
rse 5, "Weeping may endure for
00:25:45.54\00:25:51.48
a night, butoy comes in
the morning." Is that your
00:25:51.51\00:25:56.08
experience? MT: It is. JB: Is
still joy. It, it comes now in
moments, andnd at times I see a
00:25:58.82\00:26:03.06
there joy? M Yes, there's little
bit more of it. I see itin my
grandchildren; they're 3
00:26:03.09\00:26:05.96
and 5, and when they want to
come play with Papa. They miss
00:26:05.99\00:26:09.40
Grammilike crazy and they cry,
but they like to play withth
00:26:09.43\00:26:12.70
Papa, and I see the joy of life
in their eyes. That's's joy for
00:26:12.73\00:26:17.07
me. When I preach and I see
people respond to a m message,
00:26:17.11\00:26:20.18
that's joy to me. When they
respond to the telesion
programs, I have joy
00:26:20.21\00:26:23.88
ththere. I have joy with my
daughters. There's sll joy in
00:26:23.91\00:26:26.68
life. It's mitigated with th
pain, but there's still joy. And
00:26:26.72\00:26:31.75
I knowhat God has even
more joy for me in the future..
00:26:31.79\00:26:34.66
Eventualally there'll be more.
JB: Pastor Mike Tuckerthis has
00:26:34.69\00:26:37.56
been a big deal.
Thanks for jojoining me today.
00:26:37.59\00:26:39.76
MT: My pasure. JB:
Truly appreciate it. Thanks.
00:26:39.79\00:26:41.46
Let's pray together.
MT: : Sure. JB: Let's pray.
00:26:41.50\00:26:44.03
Our Father in heaven, wewe're
going to be honest with you
00:26:44.07\00:26:45.33
and tell you, weish
there was no such thing
00:26:45.40\00:26:47.84
as grief. We don't like loss.
Human ings weren't created to
00:26:47.87\00:26:52.51
grieve. When youou created
this earth, death wasn't on your
00:26:52.54\00:26:56.31
agenda. iano in background] JB:
But an enemy hath done thihis.
00:26:56.34\00:27:00.52
We thank you today that the
Biblble encourages us, "Greater
00:27:00.55\00:27:04.45
is he that is in you than he
that isn the world." And so we
00:27:04.49\00:27:08.89
will take our strength in you
and trtrust that, when life's
00:27:08.92\00:27:11.86
difficult circumstances come,
you'll get us through; that
00:27:11.89\00:27:16.06
weeping g may endure for
a night, but joy comes in t
00:27:16.10\00:27:20.07
morning. ank you, Lord, for
allowing Mike to be here today y
00:27:20.10\00:27:22.60
and share his experienence.
Continue to bless him and use
00:27:22.64\00:27:25.64
him in a powerful w to offer
hope, and hope in Christ to
00:27:25.67\00:27:30.71
many. Andd bless us. Friend,
if you'r're going through a
00:27:30.75\00:27:32.95
difficult experience now, would
yoyield your heart to Jesus?
00:27:32.98\00:27:37.45
Just pray, "Lord, take my heart
and make e it yours." Let that
00:27:37.49\00:27:41.42
be your prayer. Lord Jesus, take
mhand. Give me your peace. Give
00:27:41.46\00:27:46.93
me faith and trt in you
always. Lord, we thank you for
00:27:46.96\00:27:50.33
answerining our prprayer
and keeping us close to you. In
00:27:50.37\00:27:56.67
Jesus'ame, Amen. Thanks for
joining mtoday. I'm looking to
seeing you again next
00:27:56.71\00:27:59.67
time. Until then, , remember,
"It is written, 'Man shall not
00:27:59.71\00:28:04.31
liv by bread alone, , but by
every word that proceeds from
00:28:04.35\00:28:08.98
the mouth of God.'"
00:28:09.02\00:28:09.82
[Music]
00:28:09.85\00:28:17.53