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>>John Bradshaw: This is It
Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw.
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Thanks for joining me today.
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Today I'm joined
by a special guest.
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Dr. Michael
Cafferky is a professor of
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business and management.
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He's authored multiple
books, and has lectured
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around the world in the
area of business ethics.
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When you come to the Bible,
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the Bible is a
book filled with ethics.
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In fact, I was speaking
to some non-Christian kids
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in Mongolia, of all places.
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I asked them what
they knew about the Bible.
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None of the children knew
anything at all except for one,
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who said, “It's a book
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that deals with God
and is about ethics.”
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Which is fair, I think.
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Business ethics.
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How do we bring
ethics into our daily lives,
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and why does it even matter?
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Dr. Cafferky,
thanks for being here.
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>>Dr. Cafferky Glad
to be here, thank you.
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>>John: Now, you write about,
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and you teach on
the subject of ethics.
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In front of me I have
the cover of your new book,
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published any day now,
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“Business Ethics in
Biblical Perspective.”
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Intervarsity Press
have published this book.
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Tell me, let's start
right at the beginning.
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We're going to bring this around
to a personal application.
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We'll look at this from a
very biblical point of view.
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What is business ethics?
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>>Dr. Cafferky Well, it's
about doing the right thing.
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But it's also about
the process of deciding
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what is the right thing to do.
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And so we're
really talking about,
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when we talk about ethics,
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we're talking about
a process of thinking
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and a process of
doing that is based upon
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some standard
of right and wrong,
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either a standard that
maybe I make it myself,
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or that I find outside of
myself, perhaps in the Bible.
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>>John: Is ethics and
morality the same thing?
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>>Dr. Cafferky
Well, morality would be
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the standards
of right and wrong.
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Ethics is the process
of applying those standards
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and trying to
figure out now, okay,
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what is right and wrong
in this particular situation?
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>>John: So why are
ethics so important?
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Or maybe I should say,
how important are ethics
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when you come to a
business situation?
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>>Dr. Cafferky Whether you're
a religious person or not,
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whether you're a Christian or
believe in some other religion,
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or no religion, business
ethics is really important
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just for the business itself.
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It turns out that,
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research shows that
businesses who are ethical,
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following a
standard of right and wrong,
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tend to recruit
employees, loyal employees,
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that contribute
more to their company.
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So it helps in
recruiting new employees.
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It helps in retaining workers,
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who also like to work in
a situation where there's
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standards of right and
wrong that are held to.
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Research also shows that your
stock price can actually go up
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if you're an
ethical organization.
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So it's really important.
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>>John: So what
are some organizations,
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I'm not asking so much for your
opinion as the general consensus
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what are some organizations
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that are considered to
have ethics figured out well?
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>>Dr. Cafferky: Oh, wow.
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Uh, I think there's, once in a
while there's a list published,
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and I forget
where it's published,
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of the best places to work...
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>>John: Okay.
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>>Dr. Cafferky: ...for instance.
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Uh, certain, many of the
Fortune 100 and 500 corporations
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are considered to be some
of the best places to work.
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>>John: Which would buttress the
idea we spoke of a moment ago:
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if you have ethics going well,
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your business
tends to do better.
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>>Dr. Cafferky: Sure.
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>>John: Okay.
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>>Dr. Cafferky: And then
let's take it, let's take it,
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scale it down to
the small business.
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Uh, viewers in
their own community
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will know of organizations,
maybe family businesses,
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that have been in
town for many years,
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and they know which businesses
are the ethical businesses.
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They trust those businesses,
they repeat business as buyers,
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or they'll repeat as
sellers to those businesses.
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They like doing business
with people who are ethical.
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>>John: Let's talk about
this from a broad perspective.
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Can you give me an example of an
ethical question that was raised
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maybe it made the news,
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or maybe in academic
circles it's a good case study
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of an ethical question that was
addressed one way or another?
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What can we discuss?
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>>Dr. Cafferky: Well, I
think of the, uh, the story
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of an executive of a food,
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a chain of food
stores in New England.
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And there was a bit of a power
struggle at the level of the,
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the governance
level of the board,
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and this executive was let
go, by a relative who was also
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on the board and had
gathered board support.
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Let go.
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Many employees said,
you know, this won't stand.
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And we're going
to walk off, the job.
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Okay, that raises a
really important question.
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First of all, is there
grounds for firing this person?
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That's one ethical question.
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Okay, so now he's fired.
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What about the
employees who said, you know,
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that wasn't right to fire
him, and so we're going to walk.
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Is that the right thing to do?
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>>John: How do
we determine, then,
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what is the right thing to do?
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>>Dr. Cafferky Oh, yeah.
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>>John: Is this consensus?
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Do we take a vote?
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Or, or what processes ought
to guide the way you figure out
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what's ethical in
a given situation?
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>>Dr. Cafferky Yeah, that
really is the big question.
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How do we go about figuring
out what is right and wrong?
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And what is the process we use?
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There are some people who say,
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“Well, there really are no
standards of right and wrong.
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And so whatever you think
is right, then that's right.”
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That would be what we
call egoist approach, right.
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There are others who kind of
take the opposite point of view,
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and say, “No, there
are absolute standards.
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Let's have a conversation
about those standards
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and how they best apply to
this particular situation.”
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But there are absolutes.
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And that would be the
scriptural perspective for sure.
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>>John: So why
are ethics important?
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I mean, I'm a businessman.
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I just want to make money.
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It's my job.
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I'm not here to make friends.
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So if I can, if I
can raid a company
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or artificially jack up
the stock price and sell out,
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it doesn't matter who I hurt.
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Really, why does it matter?
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You may simply say there's
a question of human decency,
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but what if I
don't care about that?
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>>Dr. Cafferky Yeah,
well, for some people,
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they can go a long time
on that kind of approach
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or philosophy of business, yes.
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And certainly some people
might get hurt along the way;
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a 30- or 40-year
career, that can happen.
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Other people, especially
as we mature and we get older,
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we say, you know, life
is not just about the money.
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I do value relationships here,
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among my worker, with
my workers, with my family,
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with my community.
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There are a lot of reasons
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to start being
concerned about ethics.
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And it has to do with our social
connections with each other,
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it turns out.
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>>John: I want to bring this
around and look at this from
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a biblical point of view.
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Why, why is business ethics
important for someone who,
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who is striving to be or
desires to be faithful to God
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in his or her own
personal experience?
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>>Dr. Cafferky
To me this is the,
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this is one of
the big questions of,
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what does it mean
to have faith in God?
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Faith is not just
something I think about,
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like a mental, uh,
process I go through,
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or some mental state
I get to at some point.
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That's part of faith.
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Believing, that's part of faith.
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But faith also is
being faithful in what I do.
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As it says, I think,
in the book of James,
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“Faith without works”
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that's his way of
putting it, right?
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So faith really
is stuff in action,
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things that we
do, not just things,
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faith is not just this
sense of psychological security:
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oh, I believe the right things;
therefore I must be safe now.
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Yeah, that's a part of it,
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but biblical faith is faith
in action, faithfulness to God.
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As part of the response of
gratitude for what God has done.
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>>John: There's a lot here:
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business,
ethics, and faith in God.
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This is where the rubber meets
the road in a person's life.
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It's more than what you think.
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It's how your faith
plays out in everyday life.
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We'll have more
in just a moment.
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¤[Music]¤
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It may seem that
integrity is in short supply.
00:09:52.29\00:09:54.76
But it does not need to be
in short supply in your life.
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I'd like you to
get today's free offer,
00:09:58.59\00:10:00.26
“Challenged,”
00:10:00.30\00:10:01.16
written by Dr.
Michael Cafferky and myself.
00:10:01.20\00:10:04.17
How you can maintain
and demonstrate integrity
00:10:04.20\00:10:07.04
in your personal life
or in your business life.
00:10:07.07\00:10:09.97
Call us: 800-253-3000
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800-253-3000
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Visit us at itiswritten.com
00:10:15.28\00:10:17.35
or write to the
address on your screen for
00:10:17.38\00:10:19.45
“Challenged”
00:10:19.48\00:10:21.48
>>John Bradshaw: This is It
Is Written. I'm John Bradshaw.
00:10:22.42\00:10:24.29
Thanks for joining me today.
00:10:24.32\00:10:25.99
My guest is Dr.
Michael Cafferky,
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a professor of
management and business at
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Southern Adventist
University in eastern Tennessee.
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Dr. Cafferky has
authored numerous books
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and has lectured around
the world in the areas of
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business ethics and faith.
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Dr. Cafferky, I'm interested
in finding out for you,
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from you, rather, what the Bible
says about business ethics.
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I think this is important.
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A lot of businesspeople
identify as believers in God.
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Not all of them really
stop and drill down and examine
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themselves as to whether
they're really acting ethically,
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whether it
matters from the Bible.
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So, what does the Bible
say about ethics in business?
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>>Dr. Cafferky Oh,
the Bible says a lot
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about business and
ethics, starting in Genesis.
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And actually, if you follow this
all the way through scripture
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to the Book of Revelation,
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we even find references in
the Book of Revelation about
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business-related
ethics, as well.
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You can start in
the book of Genesis.
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Genesis,
chapter 1 and chapter 2.
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Some people turn to
as the foundation ideas
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for why God created this earth,
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how he put human
beings here on this earth,
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and some of the
basic ideas and principles
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upon which life was started.
00:11:36.59\00:11:38.56
>>John: Give me a for instance.
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We don't have to recite
chapter and verse exactly,
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but let's look at an idea,
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just so we get an understanding
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of what it is
we're talking about here,
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an ethical situation or a
commentary on business ethics
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that we find in the
early chapters of the Bible.
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>>Dr. Cafferky: Okay.
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There is this idea
from ancient times,
00:11:52.87\00:11:55.31
when people were
buying and selling goods.
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They would use a
piece of technology
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that we would call a scale,
a weighing scale, all right?
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And you would put
product on one side of the scale
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and weights on the other,
and when they measured equal,
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then you'd know, here's the,
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here's the value
for that product.
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And then there was
a price associated.
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Okay, so that's the technology.
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The scriptures
talks about these scales,
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and how the trader
must be very careful
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not to have false weights,
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or a secret set of
weights in the bag, it's called,
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because they used to carry
these weights in a bag, right?
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Don't use a false set of
weights to cheat your customer
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when you're selling product.
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Uh, the book of Proverbs
takes up this same idea.
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Solomon the King recites this
same idea during his kingship:
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don't use false
weights when you're trading.
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>>John: Let me ask you this.
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Is there a lot of
dishonesty in business today?
00:12:48.70\00:12:52.40
>>Dr. Cafferky Well,
there is, unfortunately.
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But, you know, the marketplace
would not work if dishonesty
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was rampant everywhere.
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In fact, that's one
of the principles upon
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which a market
economy is founded.
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The experts have said.
You've got to be honest.
00:13:06.65\00:13:09.72
Yes, there, it is true
that some people are dishonest.
00:13:09.75\00:13:12.12
But generally people
have to be honest in order
00:13:12.15\00:13:14.62
for the
marketplace to work, right?
00:13:14.66\00:13:16.69
There are certain
things that we put in place as,
00:13:16.73\00:13:19.09
as protections and boundaries.
00:13:19.13\00:13:21.83
We hire accountants, for
instance, to help us be honest.
00:13:21.86\00:13:25.73
>>John: Auditors.
00:13:25.77\00:13:26.67
>>Dr. Cafferky:
Auditors, to keep records,
00:13:26.70\00:13:28.90
transparency of the
information, so we can trust.
00:13:28.94\00:13:31.64
That's another issue, of course,
related to honesty, is trust.
00:13:31.67\00:13:35.41
So honesty is
absolutely important.
00:13:35.44\00:13:37.25
And yes, people are dishonest.
00:13:37.28\00:13:40.22
But if the majority of people
weren't honest in a free market,
00:13:40.25\00:13:43.22
it would
collapse fairly quickly.
00:13:43.25\00:13:45.42
>>John: Okay, let's
get back to the Bible.
00:13:45.45\00:13:46.42
Let's look at a
couple of other situations.
00:13:46.45\00:13:48.46
>>Dr. Cafferky Yeah.
00:13:48.49\00:13:49.49
Let's talk about the
Ten Commandments briefly.
00:13:49.52\00:13:51.73
Hmm, now, many people
think the Ten Commandments
00:13:51.76\00:13:54.76
is simply kind of a
random list of ten things
00:13:54.83\00:13:57.50
that you shouldn't do.
00:13:57.53\00:13:58.80
Or some things are
said you should do,
00:13:58.83\00:14:00.57
a few things are said in
the negative, don't do, right?
00:14:00.60\00:14:02.80
And it's kind
of random actually,
00:14:02.84\00:14:04.91
when you look carefully and
study these Ten Commandments,
00:14:04.94\00:14:07.61
all of them are related to
business and business activities
00:14:07.64\00:14:12.05
from the point of view of
the people of those times.
00:14:12.08\00:14:15.08
>>John: Now, do you mind if
I read a commandment to you,
00:14:15.12\00:14:18.55
and we'll, uh, we'll see how
this is associated with ethics.
00:14:18.59\00:14:22.06
>>Dr. Cafferky Okay.
00:14:22.09\00:14:22.76
>>John: Can we do that?
00:14:22.79\00:14:23.76
And there are a
couple that I'm wondering,
00:14:23.79\00:14:26.26
how might this one be
associated with ethics.
00:14:26.29\00:14:30.07
>>Dr. Cafferky: Okay.
00:14:30.10\00:14:31.00
>>John: I'll give
you a nice easy one.
00:14:31.03\00:14:31.73
Thou shalt not...
00:14:31.77\00:14:32.63
>>Dr. Cafferky Okay.
00:14:32.67\00:14:33.34
>>John: ...Thou shalt not steal.
00:14:33.37\00:14:34.54
>>Dr. Cafferky: Oh, good,
you started with an easy one.
00:14:34.57\00:14:35.54
Yeah, that's the
most obvious one...
00:14:35.57\00:14:36.67
>>John: Yeah.
00:14:36.71\00:14:37.54
>>Dr. Cafferky
...of all of the ten.
00:14:37.57\00:14:38.31
Thank you so much.
00:14:38.34\00:14:39.77
Though shalt not steal.
00:14:39.81\00:14:40.98
Well, just think about it.
00:14:41.01\00:14:43.08
If stealing were
rampant in the marketplace,
00:14:43.11\00:14:47.12
how much trading
of things of value
00:14:47.15\00:14:50.55
would people actually engage in?
00:14:50.59\00:14:53.86
If I thought that
what I bought today
00:14:53.89\00:14:56.19
someone would come
and steal tomorrow,
00:14:56.22\00:14:59.23
why would I go and buy something
00:14:59.26\00:15:01.76
that I know someone's
going to take from me.
00:15:01.80\00:15:04.23
See, what happens in theft,
00:15:04.27\00:15:06.53
it's not only a disrespect
of the person who worked hard
00:15:06.57\00:15:10.34
to earn the money to
buy the product they own,
00:15:10.37\00:15:12.77
it's a disrespect of them,
00:15:12.81\00:15:14.81
but it's also a
disrespect to the Creator,
00:15:14.84\00:15:18.18
who created all
things from which
00:15:18.21\00:15:20.58
that product was made, as well.
00:15:20.62\00:15:23.15
Okay?
00:15:23.18\00:15:24.39
But just think about that.
00:15:24.42\00:15:26.19
If we, we didn't trust the
safety of things that we own
00:15:26.22\00:15:30.29
using our hard-earned money,
00:15:30.33\00:15:32.86
the economy would, would tank.
00:15:32.89\00:15:34.86
>>John: Umm.
Thou shalt not kill?
00:15:34.93\00:15:36.67
>>Dr. Cafferky Oh my, this
is, it's not quite so obvious,
00:15:36.70\00:15:39.57
but it is, it is so clear,
00:15:39.60\00:15:41.70
that without physical
safety in the marketplace,
00:15:41.74\00:15:45.31
there would not be trading.
00:15:45.34\00:15:48.64
If I cannot feel safe
going out to the market
00:15:48.68\00:15:51.15
and buying and selling,
00:15:51.18\00:15:52.51
right safety for my own physical
00:15:52.55\00:15:54.95
well-being, health,
and even for my life again,
00:15:54.98\00:15:58.02
that same impact on
the economy, it would tank.
00:15:58.05\00:16:01.69
>>John: Does this
mean that questions of
00:16:01.72\00:16:02.72
occupational safety
and health, uh, safety...
00:16:02.76\00:16:04.79
>>Dr. Cafferky Absolutely.
00:16:04.83\00:16:06.16
>>John: ...within
the working environment,
00:16:06.19\00:16:07.56
those are ethical questions too?
00:16:07.60\00:16:08.86
>>Dr. Cafferky Well, of course,
00:16:08.90\00:16:10.10
and that's the positive side of
00:16:10.13\00:16:11.13
“thou shalt not
kill” commandment, right?
00:16:11.17\00:16:13.90
The positive side is,
let's foster flourishing life
00:16:13.94\00:16:16.71
for people who we are with,
who we have responsibility for,
00:16:16.74\00:16:20.41
our workers, our
family, and our, our neighbors.
00:16:20.44\00:16:23.68
So yes, occupational
safety is a positive expression
00:16:23.71\00:16:27.65
of that commandment,
“Thou shalt not kill.”
00:16:27.68\00:16:29.85
>>John: There's a, there's
a commandment in the Bible
00:16:29.88\00:16:31.82
that's been pretty
well forgotten by everybody.
00:16:31.85\00:16:34.06
It's the last one,
Exodus 20, verse 19:
00:16:34.09\00:16:37.33
“Thou shalt not covet.”
00:16:37.36\00:16:38.66
>>Dr. Cafferky: Oh yeah.
00:16:38.69\00:16:40.03
>>John: Where's the, where's the
business ethics in covetousness?
00:16:40.06\00:16:44.00
>>Dr. Cafferky: God designs for
us to have a flourishing life.
00:16:44.03\00:16:47.77
Okay.
00:16:47.80\00:16:49.00
And that flourishing life
from the scripture point of view
00:16:49.04\00:16:50.74
includes several dimensions.
00:16:50.77\00:16:52.14
I'm going to come
to the business part,
00:16:52.17\00:16:53.51
so just work with me here.
00:16:53.54\00:16:54.21
>>John: Okay, sure.
00:16:54.24\00:16:55.28
>>Dr. Cafferky:
Uh, first of all,
00:16:55.31\00:16:56.64
our spiritual
relationship with God.
00:16:56.68\00:16:59.21
That's part of the flourishing,
00:16:59.25\00:17:00.45
the foundation for
a flourishing life.
00:17:00.48\00:17:03.05
Social harmony, with our family
and friends in the community.
00:17:03.08\00:17:07.99
Even international peace, right?
00:17:08.02\00:17:10.19
That's part of
this flourishing life.
00:17:10.23\00:17:12.19
Physical health and well-being.
00:17:12.23\00:17:13.43
Mental health.
00:17:13.46\00:17:14.66
And there's another dimension
that scripture also includes
00:17:14.73\00:17:17.30
in this idea of flourishing
life: the economic dimension.
00:17:17.33\00:17:21.44
Oh yeah.
00:17:21.47\00:17:23.30
If we don't put some limits on
the economic dimension of our,
00:17:23.34\00:17:28.41
of our life, of
this flourishing life,
00:17:28.44\00:17:30.05
it turns out the other
dimensions start to suffer.
00:17:30.08\00:17:33.55
And the tenth commandment,
00:17:33.58\00:17:35.02
I'm going to come around
to that tenth commandment,
00:17:35.05\00:17:36.25
“Thou shalt not covet,”
00:17:36.28\00:17:38.02
is a way to put some boundaries
around our economic activities.
00:17:38.05\00:17:45.66
>>John: Why should
those boundaries be there?
00:17:45.69\00:17:47.50
You're telling me that I can't
maximize my earning potential,
00:17:47.50\00:17:51.03
or I shouldn't pad my
wallet as much as I might like?
00:17:51.07\00:17:54.70
>>Dr. Cafferky:
The scripture is clear.
00:17:54.74\00:17:56.04
God desires for us abundance.
00:17:56.07\00:17:58.71
He tells us in the
fourth commandment,
00:17:58.74\00:18:00.71
work hard six
days a week, right?
00:18:00.74\00:18:03.91
But the seventh, I know
this is the fourth commandment,
00:18:03.95\00:18:05.98
but it's going to
relate it to the tenth,
00:18:06.01\00:18:07.52
because there's a similar
principle of being content.
00:18:07.55\00:18:10.39
That's what we, what we get
from the fruits of our labor.
00:18:10.42\00:18:13.56
So yes, work hard, absolutely.
00:18:13.59\00:18:15.96
Achieve abundance.
00:18:15.99\00:18:18.09
But if we don't put constraints
00:18:18.13\00:18:20.66
on our efforts to
achieve abundance,
00:18:20.70\00:18:22.63
it turns out that we
start hurting people around us.
00:18:22.66\00:18:25.73
We start destroying
physical and mental health
00:18:25.77\00:18:29.14
when we don't put constraints
on that economic activity.
00:18:29.17\00:18:32.94
>>John: Business
ethics. Quite a field of study,
00:18:32.97\00:18:35.34
and Dr. Cafferky's
studied it more than most.
00:18:35.38\00:18:37.11
We'll be back with
more about ethics, business,
00:18:37.15\00:18:39.28
the Bible and
you, in just a moment.
00:18:39.31\00:18:42.82
¤[Music]¤
00:18:42.85\00:18:48.96
>>Announcer: In Matthew
4:4, the Word of God says,
00:18:51.59\00:18:54.00
“It is written, ‘Man
shall not live by bead alone,
00:18:54.00\00:18:56.90
but by every word that
proceeds from the mouth of God.”
00:18:56.93\00:19:01.10
“Every Word” is a one-minute,
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00:19:01.14\00:19:04.41
presented by
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00:19:04.44\00:19:06.14
and designed especially
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00:19:06.17\00:19:09.28
Look for Every Word
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00:19:09.31\00:19:12.01
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00:19:12.05\00:19:14.48
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00:19:14.52\00:19:16.95
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00:19:21.46\00:19:24.46
¤[Theme music]¤
00:19:24.49\00:19:29.60
Thanks for joining me.
00:19:29.63\00:19:30.80
The reality is, we live in
the midst of a spiritual battle.
00:19:30.83\00:19:33.84
Someone wants you to be saved.
00:19:33.87\00:19:35.70
God, who offers you
salvation through Jesus;
00:19:35.74\00:19:38.44
Jesus, who died for your sins.
00:19:38.47\00:19:40.74
But there's someone who
wants you not to be saved,
00:19:40.78\00:19:42.71
and that's the devil, Satan.
00:19:42.74\00:19:44.65
So notice Joshua 20, verse 5.
00:19:44.68\00:19:46.82
Joshua is writing
about the cities of refuge,
00:19:46.85\00:19:49.48
safe places for those who've
accidentally taken a life.
00:19:49.52\00:19:52.55
He says, “Then if the
avenger of blood pursues him,
00:19:52.59\00:19:55.99
they shall not deliver
the slayer into his hand,
00:19:56.02\00:19:58.66
because he struck his
neighbor unintentionally,
00:19:58.69\00:20:00.73
but did not
hate him beforehand.”
00:20:00.76\00:20:03.06
The person fleeing to the city
of refuge had to be intentional.
00:20:03.10\00:20:06.00
Why?
00:20:06.03\00:20:06.94
Because there was
someone pursuing him.
00:20:06.97\00:20:08.87
In the same way it's vital to
remember the enormous importance
00:20:08.90\00:20:11.41
of fleeing to safety in Jesus.
00:20:11.44\00:20:12.97
Someone wants you to
let go of eternal life.
00:20:13.01\00:20:15.78
So stay close to Jesus.
00:20:15.81\00:20:16.85
Dwell in him,
the city of refuge.
00:20:16.88\00:20:19.28
And let's live
today by every word.
00:20:19.31\00:20:20.75
¤[Theme music]¤
00:20:20.78\00:20:24.62
>>John: Thanks for joining
me today on It Is Written.
00:20:25.92\00:20:27.86
My guest, Dr. Michael Cafferky,
has written extensively about
00:20:27.89\00:20:30.89
business and ethics,
and how it relates to
00:20:30.93\00:20:33.60
a person's
relationship with Jesus Christ.
00:20:33.63\00:20:35.90
A couple of
moments ago, Dr. Cafferky,
00:20:35.93\00:20:37.97
we were discussing
the Ten Commandments
00:20:38.00\00:20:40.80
and their role in
ethics and business.
00:20:40.84\00:20:43.27
And you mentioned
something interesting.
00:20:43.30\00:20:45.41
When we discuss
killing and stealing and lying,
00:20:45.44\00:20:49.44
these are pretty
clear ethical questions.
00:20:49.48\00:20:51.28
The Bible says, “Remember the
Sabbath day, to keep it holy.”
00:20:51.31\00:20:54.48
>>Dr. Cafferky Right.
00:20:54.52\00:20:55.75
>>John: How do we relate that to
a question of business ethics?
00:20:55.78\00:20:58.89
>>Dr. Cafferky Oh, this
is, this is fascinating.
00:20:58.92\00:21:01.19
This question
will take us, you know,
00:21:01.22\00:21:03.19
a little bit deeper to
understanding the Sabbath
00:21:03.22\00:21:05.29
as something
bigger and wonderful
00:21:05.33\00:21:08.46
than just a day of worship,
00:21:08.50\00:21:09.70
although the day of worship
is really important, in fact,
00:21:09.73\00:21:11.77
that's the foundation,
00:21:11.80\00:21:13.80
taking a day from work,
00:21:13.84\00:21:15.64
not working, to worship
in community, uh, our God.
00:21:15.67\00:21:21.21
Okay, so worship
of God in community,
00:21:21.24\00:21:23.98
that's kind of the
heart of the Sabbath.
00:21:24.01\00:21:25.91
The Sabbath is also about being
content with what I have earned
00:21:25.95\00:21:30.35
and what I've
gained from my labors.
00:21:30.39\00:21:32.25
Six days you shall work, it
says, and do all your labor.
00:21:32.29\00:21:36.93
But the seventh
day is the Sabbath,
00:21:36.96\00:21:38.79
and keep the
Sabbath holy, right?
00:21:38.83\00:21:40.70
So six days of work, but
let's be content with what we
00:21:40.73\00:21:43.26
did earn and
obtain from our efforts.
00:21:43.30\00:21:46.33
That's, that's central
to the Sabbath commandment.
00:21:46.37\00:21:48.30
>>John: Now, you've
written extensively about,
00:21:48.34\00:21:50.14
about a couple of concepts
dealing with the heart and,
00:21:50.17\00:21:52.97
and the walk, a person's walk.
00:21:53.01\00:21:56.48
>>Dr. Cafferky: Yeah,
those are Bible ideas.
00:21:56.51\00:21:56.91
>>John: Yeah.
00:21:56.95\00:21:57.75
>>Dr. Cafferky: Yeah.
00:21:57.78\00:21:58.68
>>John: Let's,
let's talk about that.
00:21:58.71\00:21:59.75
Let's talk about
the walk particularly.
00:21:59.78\00:22:01.18
I don't know if that's
all we'll have time for.
00:22:01.22\00:22:03.02
So let's talk about that.
00:22:03.05\00:22:04.09
What is, what
is this walk issue,
00:22:04.12\00:22:05.49
and how does that impact us
from an ethical point of view.
00:22:05.52\00:22:07.89
>>Dr. Cafferky: Well,
that's an image of scripture,
00:22:07.92\00:22:09.76
or a metaphor, that
scripture uses several times.
00:22:09.79\00:22:13.19
Moses uses it in his writings,
00:22:13.23\00:22:14.96
and it's used in
other places as well.
00:22:15.00\00:22:16.80
It's actually used in the New
Testament and the Old Testament.
00:22:16.83\00:22:19.30
So, the walk refers to our
activities in, in the community,
00:22:19.33\00:22:25.34
when we're with other people,
00:22:25.37\00:22:26.27
things that we do
that other people see.
00:22:26.31\00:22:29.44
We're walking, meaning
we're behaving in certain ways
00:22:29.48\00:22:32.11
that affect other people.
00:22:32.15\00:22:33.38
That's the walk.
00:22:33.42\00:22:34.65
Let me share a
passage of scripture
00:22:34.68\00:22:36.99
from Deuteronomy,
chapter 6, and, um, verse 6.
00:22:37.02\00:22:43.09
This follows one of the
famous sayings of scripture,
00:22:43.12\00:22:47.30
the famous, “Here, O Israel,
the Lord our God is one Lord.”
00:22:47.30\00:22:51.27
That's the, that's the
famous from ancient times.
00:22:51.30\00:22:53.84
In verse 6, “These words,
which I command you this day,
00:22:53.87\00:22:57.34
shall be upon your heart,
00:22:57.37\00:22:59.47
and you shall teach them
diligently to your children;
00:22:59.51\00:23:01.91
you shall talk to them
when you sit in your house
00:23:01.94\00:23:04.15
and when you walk by the way.”
00:23:04.18\00:23:08.02
Is he talking about,
okay, let's take a hike
00:23:08.05\00:23:09.68
now in the mountains, and we're
going to have a conversation
00:23:09.72\00:23:11.55
about the Ten Commandments?
00:23:11.59\00:23:12.52
>>John: What is
he talking about?
00:23:12.55\00:23:13.86
>>Dr. Cafferky: He's
talking about when we move
00:23:13.89\00:23:15.76
outside of our tent, or
our little house, go out,
00:23:15.79\00:23:19.23
we're walking out in to the
community to do our business,
00:23:19.26\00:23:22.40
our buying and our selling.
00:23:22.43\00:23:24.37
That's when these principles
of the Ten Commandments
00:23:24.40\00:23:27.00
should be on our hearts,
our minds, and on our lips,
00:23:27.04\00:23:29.67
to have
conversations with people.
00:23:29.70\00:23:31.67
You see, business
is a moral activity;
00:23:31.71\00:23:33.68
it's not just
amoral money-making.
00:23:33.71\00:23:36.68
From the scripture point
of view, it's moral activity;
00:23:36.71\00:23:39.85
it reflects our
relationship with God.
00:23:39.88\00:23:42.45
And so the walking
by the way, or the,
00:23:42.48\00:23:44.55
the walking
means doing our life,
00:23:44.59\00:23:47.99
doing our business of
life with other people.
00:23:48.02\00:23:50.26
>>John: The Bible speaks a
lot about business, doesn't it?
00:23:50.29\00:23:52.93
Maybe more than many
people would even know.
00:23:52.96\00:23:54.83
>>Dr. Cafferky: It does.
00:23:54.86\00:23:56.70
In fact, there are,
00:23:56.73\00:23:57.77
we read a lot of
passages about love, redemption.
00:23:57.80\00:24:00.97
Those are wonderful things.
00:24:01.00\00:24:02.87
Scripture talks
a lot about money:
00:24:02.90\00:24:05.37
how we earn our money,
how we spend our money,
00:24:05.41\00:24:08.28
the principles of which we
should relate to each other,
00:24:08.31\00:24:11.38
the work of
managers, for instance,
00:24:11.41\00:24:13.18
which are fascinating ideas,
00:24:13.21\00:24:17.12
and they form a wonderful
perspective, if you will.
00:24:17.15\00:24:22.12
And they relate
to our entire life,
00:24:22.16\00:24:23.69
not just our life in
church and life in our family,
00:24:23.73\00:24:26.63
but life in the
marketplace, as well.
00:24:26.66\00:24:29.13
>>John: Business people,
clearly, particularly people
00:24:29.16\00:24:32.00
in business who claim to
have some sort of moral code,
00:24:32.03\00:24:35.17
who claim to be
answerable to God,
00:24:35.20\00:24:37.04
clearly ought to be
thinking strongly about how,
00:24:37.07\00:24:39.67
how the Bible shapes and
forms their ethical practices.
00:24:39.71\00:24:42.48
It's true for
individuals, though, too,
00:24:42.51\00:24:44.65
people who don't run businesses,
but are living their lives,
00:24:44.68\00:24:47.35
because we all
conduct business, don't we?
00:24:47.38\00:24:49.35
>>Dr. Cafferky Oh, yes.
00:24:49.38\00:24:50.59
>>John: Whether it's with
the company with which we have
00:24:50.62\00:24:51.85
our cell phone plan, or, or the
convenience store up the street.
00:24:51.89\00:24:56.02
>>Dr. Cafferky:
Each of us is a buyer.
00:24:56.06\00:24:58.59
It takes two to do
business: a buyer and a seller.
00:24:58.63\00:25:01.26
Somebody has to sell something,
someone has to buy something,
00:25:01.30\00:25:03.60
in order for that to work.
00:25:03.63\00:25:04.67
So we're all buyers,
meaning each family unit,
00:25:04.70\00:25:07.67
and even as individuals
we're buying and selling.
00:25:07.70\00:25:10.54
And so the scripture
doesn't relate just to pastors,
00:25:10.57\00:25:13.61
just to Bible teachers,
00:25:13.64\00:25:14.84
or just to us
when we're in church.
00:25:14.88\00:25:17.71
How would, how would
God's message be truthful
00:25:17.75\00:25:20.62
if it only applied to
those aspects of our life?
00:25:20.65\00:25:24.22
Going to, going to church.
00:25:24.25\00:25:26.52
The times when
I'm reading the Bible,
00:25:26.55\00:25:27.86
that's when I'm the
most righteous, right?
00:25:27.89\00:25:30.33
That's when I desire most.
00:25:30.36\00:25:31.89
How about when I
go to the marketplace?
00:25:31.93\00:25:34.60
That's when our faith, in
response to God's grace to us,
00:25:34.63\00:25:38.33
that's when the faith, I
contend, really is shown.
00:25:38.37\00:25:41.17
>>John: I'm going
to ask you a question
00:25:41.20\00:25:42.57
that you're not expecting.
00:25:42.60\00:25:44.17
Recently I was in a country
where you visit the market
00:25:44.21\00:25:47.18
and you say, “How
much is this bowl?”
00:25:47.21\00:25:49.18
>>Dr. Cafferky Oh boy.
00:25:49.21\00:25:49.81
>>John: And they say, 250.
00:25:49.84\00:25:52.08
And you know that they're,
they're high-balling you.
00:25:52.11\00:25:55.45
But you've got to come back
and barter with that person.
00:25:55.48\00:25:58.45
>>Dr. Cafferky: Negotiate.
00:25:58.49\00:25:59.42
>>John: How do
you do that ethically?
00:25:59.45\00:26:02.36
And keep this in mind:
you're in a third-world country,
00:26:02.39\00:26:04.53
and you've come from
a first-world country
00:26:04.56\00:26:05.89
with comparably a
pocket stuffed full of money.
00:26:05.93\00:26:09.03
How does a person
go about that sort of,
00:26:09.06\00:26:11.43
it could be you saw
something on Craig's List
00:26:11.47\00:26:13.90
and you want to buy a car,
00:26:13.94\00:26:15.17
and they're asking for eight
and a half thousand dollars,
00:26:15.20\00:26:16.44
and you don't
want to pay that much.
00:26:16.47\00:26:17.97
How do we enter
into something like that
00:26:18.01\00:26:20.18
guided by biblical ethics?
00:26:20.21\00:26:22.61
>>Dr. Cafferky: Yeah.
00:26:22.64\00:26:23.88
One of the biblical principles,
which is a theme of scripture,
00:26:23.91\00:26:26.55
is called, it's called wisdom.
00:26:26.58\00:26:28.78
Okay.
00:26:28.82\00:26:29.82
Wisdom is not just
knowledge about the market,
00:26:29.85\00:26:33.12
but it includes that.
00:26:33.15\00:26:35.19
But wisdom comes from the
community that I'm a part of.
00:26:35.22\00:26:39.73
And so the wise thing to
do would be to say, okay,
00:26:39.76\00:26:43.63
I'm going to find
out as much as I can
00:26:43.67\00:26:45.37
about the marketplace here,
00:26:45.40\00:26:47.57
before I start negotiating
and entering a transaction.
00:26:47.60\00:26:51.41
If I let someone
take advantage of me,
00:26:51.44\00:26:54.21
and this is a scriptural idea,
00:26:54.24\00:26:55.51
if I let someone
take advantage of me,
00:26:55.54\00:26:57.88
they're taking
advantage of the community.
00:26:57.91\00:27:00.92
And so, to follow
God in a faithful way,
00:27:00.95\00:27:03.28
I'm going to try to avoid that.
00:27:03.32\00:27:05.89
So I might do some
research, in another country
00:27:05.92\00:27:09.19
I might take someone with me,
00:27:09.22\00:27:12.36
if I if I knew someone
who lived in that marketplace
00:27:12.39\00:27:15.33
or that community.
00:27:15.36\00:27:16.50
Someone with me
to the marketplace.
00:27:16.53\00:27:19.23
To have a
conversation about the prices
00:27:19.27\00:27:21.70
and so forth of the products.
00:27:21.74\00:27:23.47
>>John: I think we
are about out of time,
00:27:23.51\00:27:24.81
but this is fascinating
because we all live our lives,
00:27:24.84\00:27:27.54
we all conduct
business on some level,
00:27:27.58\00:27:29.61
and we all will be
guided by something particularly
00:27:29.64\00:27:32.11
if we are believers in God,
00:27:32.15\00:27:33.48
we want that to be the Bible,
00:27:33.52\00:27:34.62
we want our ethics to be
formed by biblical principles.
00:27:34.65\00:27:37.89
Dr. Michael Cafferky, thanks
so much for joining me today.
00:27:37.92\00:27:40.22
>>Dr. Cafferky:
Pleasure being here.
00:27:40.26\00:27:41.56
>>John: Ethics and the Bible.
00:27:41.59\00:27:43.69
Our relationship with God,
00:27:43.73\00:27:45.19
certainly as we reach
out after God we want God to
00:27:45.23\00:27:47.30
guide us in the right way, that
we're not only representing Him,
00:27:47.30\00:27:50.97
but our lives are characterized
by God's character.
00:27:51.00\00:27:53.30
And that thats what we reflect
00:27:53.34\00:27:54.87
to the world in
all our dealings.
00:27:54.90\00:27:56.50
¤[Music]¤
00:27:56.54\00:28:02.38
>>John Bradshaw: It
may seem that integrity
00:28:03.35\00:28:04.68
is in short supply.
00:28:04.71\00:28:06.01
But it does not need to be
in short supply in your life.
00:28:06.05\00:28:09.55
I'd like you to
get today's free offer,
00:28:09.58\00:28:11.25
“Challenged”
00:28:11.29\00:28:12.19
written by Dr.
Michael Cafferky and myself.
00:28:12.22\00:28:15.19
How you can maintain
and demonstrate integrity
00:28:15.22\00:28:18.06
in your personal life
or in your business life.
00:28:18.09\00:28:20.96
Call us: 800-253-3000
00:28:20.96\00:28:23.93
800-253-3000
00:28:23.97\00:28:26.20
Visit us at itiswritten.com
00:28:26.23\00:28:28.34
or write to the
address on your screen for
00:28:28.37\00:28:30.41
“Challenged”
00:28:30.44\00:28:32.37
>>John Bradshaw: I'm
glad you've joined me today,
00:28:33.81\00:28:35.14
why don't we take a
moment to pray together.
00:28:35.18\00:28:36.81
Our Father in Heaven,
00:28:36.85\00:28:38.28
we thank you today for Jesus,
00:28:38.31\00:28:40.22
we thank you for a life
that was lived ethically,
00:28:40.25\00:28:43.95
morally pure,
00:28:43.99\00:28:45.09
righteously.
00:28:45.12\00:28:46.65
We fail you many times,
00:28:46.69\00:28:48.56
but we want our
lives to be characterized
00:28:48.59\00:28:51.16
like Jesus' life
with the presence
00:28:51.19\00:28:53.63
and the power of
the God of Heaven.
00:28:53.66\00:28:57.07
Bless us, that in all we
do, only Jesus would be seen.
00:28:57.10\00:29:02.87
That we would
represent you right,
00:29:02.90\00:29:04.87
and experience the joy of
a life filled with abundance.
00:29:04.91\00:29:07.71
Abundance of your
presence and your blessing.
00:29:07.74\00:29:10.41
We thank you today and we pray,
00:29:10.45\00:29:12.11
in Jesus' name,
00:29:12.15\00:29:13.45
Amen.
00:29:13.48\00:29:14.82
Dr. Cafferky, thanks so
much for joining me today,
00:29:14.85\00:29:16.82
this has been a blessing.
00:29:16.85\00:29:17.82
>>Dr. Cafferky: Thank
you, its been a pleasure.
00:29:17.85\00:29:19.22
>>John: Let's do this
again sometime, thank so much.
00:29:19.25\00:29:21.79
And thank you
for joining me today.
00:29:21.82\00:29:23.49
I look forward to
seeing you again next time.
00:29:23.53\00:29:25.69
Until then, please remember:
00:29:25.73\00:29:28.13
“It is written,
00:29:28.16\00:29:29.50
man shall not
live by bread alone,
00:29:29.53\00:29:31.33
but by every word that
proceeds from the mouth of God.”
00:29:31.37\00:29:36.07
¤[Music]¤
00:29:36.10\00:29:51.12