JOHN: You've heard the
stories, like that of Job,
00:00:05.87\00:00:07.97
who in the Bible had everything
a man could want, and then
00:00:07.97\00:00:10.87
he lost it, all
suddenly and tragically.
00:00:10.87\00:00:15.54
What happens, though when
those Bible stories get out of
00:00:15.54\00:00:18.95
the pages of the Bible
and find their way into
00:00:18.95\00:00:21.15
the lives of everyday people?
I'm here in "Everywhere USA" it
00:00:21.15\00:00:25.92
could be where you live, regular
people, living regular lives.
00:00:25.92\00:00:30.29
And it's here where I'm going to
speak with Karen Johnson, whose
00:00:30.29\00:00:34.10
life was struck by terrible,
random tragedy, but then God
00:00:34.10\00:00:39.87
turned that into triumph,
through the power of his grace.
00:00:39.87\00:00:44.24
jjj(Theme Music)jjj It
has stood the test of time.
00:00:44.24\00:00:55.85
God's Book, the Bible.
Still relevant in today's
00:00:55.85\00:01:02.36
complex world. It Is
Written, sharing hope
00:01:02.36\00:01:09.86
around the g JOHN:
Karen, thank you so much
00:01:09.86\00:01:22.21
for taking the time
to talk with me today.
00:01:22.21\00:01:24.35
KAREN: You're welcome.
JOHN: It had been a perfect day.
00:01:24.35\00:01:27.22
Your husband John and yourself
had had a great day, and then,
00:01:27.22\00:01:29.92
and then in the evening...
KAREN: In the evening we decided
00:01:29.92\00:01:34.19
that we were going to
go out on our date night.
00:01:34.19\00:01:36.86
We hadn't had a date night in
quite sometime and I was very,
00:01:36.86\00:01:39.76
very excited. I had
just got my hair done the
00:01:39.76\00:01:42.40
day before, and we decided
that we were going to do three
00:01:42.40\00:01:44.77
things. We were going to go out
00:01:44.77\00:01:48.17
to a restaurant to eat first,
because I told him I was hungry,
00:01:48.17\00:01:51.14
then from there we were
going to go to a friend's house
00:01:51.14\00:01:53.48
and we were going to
spend some time with a friend.
00:01:53.48\00:01:55.71
And then we were going
to cap it off by going to my
00:01:55.71\00:01:57.85
mother's house. She
had just had her birthday,
00:01:57.85\00:01:59.45
four days prior to Saturday,
and we hadn't seen her.
00:01:59.45\00:02:04.32
And so that was the plan.
JOHN: So things were going
00:02:04.32\00:02:07.02
great, what, what
happened later on that evening?
00:02:07.02\00:02:10.36
KAREN: As we drove out of our
particular development, we got
00:02:10.36\00:02:13.96
out into the main street,
which is called Gruesville.
00:02:13.96\00:02:16.60
We headed on down Gruesville,
and he told me to pick
00:02:16.60\00:02:18.97
the restaurant, and so,
Elk Grove is, at that time,
00:02:18.97\00:02:21.30
was a much smaller
city than what it is now,
00:02:21.30\00:02:24.51
but we had a few restaurants.
00:02:24.51\00:02:27.51
We had Friday's, we had
Chili's, we had Red Robin.
00:02:27.51\00:02:30.95
As we turned the corner, John,
my husband kind of sat back in
00:02:30.95\00:02:33.62
his seat and he said,
"[sigh] Honey, this is gonna
00:02:33.62\00:02:37.52
to be a great year."
And I said, "Really?"
00:02:37.52\00:02:40.89
He said, "Yes." And I,
that was like music to my
00:02:40.89\00:02:43.96
ears because we, we're a blended
family, we had our struggles,
00:02:43.96\00:02:50.00
and for him to say, "Honey this
is going to be a great year", it
00:02:50.00\00:02:54.00
was one of the best things
that a wife could hear from a
00:02:54.00\00:02:56.54
husband, right? As
we're continuing down on, I
00:02:56.54\00:03:00.34
saw another restaurant, but I
decided, "No, I'm a vegetarian,"
00:03:00.34\00:03:05.05
and I thought, "Probably
not a very big selection
00:03:05.05\00:03:07.65
of vegetarian
food." So we kept going.
00:03:07.65\00:03:09.65
And then I turned to my right
and I noticed this restaurant,
00:03:09.65\00:03:13.09
it was a new
restaurant, a sports grill.
00:03:13.09\00:03:16.26
And I said, "Honey
how about Mandango's?"
00:03:16.26\00:03:18.89
And he said,
"What is Mandango's?"
00:03:18.89\00:03:21.23
I said, "It's a
new sports restaurant."
00:03:21.23\00:03:23.26
And he said, "Really?
Had you ever been there?"
00:03:23.26\00:03:24.83
And I said, "No." And
so he said, "Let's go!"
00:03:24.83\00:03:29.10
And so I pulled into the parking
lot, it was pretty crowded,
00:03:29.10\00:03:31.41
and it was dark, so I
parked on the opposite side
00:03:31.41\00:03:35.14
right in front of the
Asian Market, and we hopped out
00:03:35.14\00:03:38.78
of the car, and
walked into the restaurant.
00:03:38.78\00:03:41.95
JOHN: A great evening.
Things are looking good.
00:03:41.95\00:03:44.32
It's going to be a great year.
You ended up where you ended up
00:03:44.32\00:03:48.56
sort of randomly, you could have
been at any other, a number of
00:03:48.56\00:03:51.93
any other places...
KAREN: That is true.
00:03:51.93\00:03:53.60
JOHN: So you went in there
and you spent your evening.
00:03:53.60\00:03:55.33
Things are looking good.
The future is looking bright.
00:03:55.33\00:03:58.57
And then a random
event took place...
00:03:58.57\00:04:01.24
KAREN: Well when I got inside of
the restaurant, immediately my
00:04:01.24\00:04:03.71
spirit didn't feel right. I
had, we had a wonderful day,
00:04:03.71\00:04:08.84
and spiritual things, and I
walked into the restaurant and
00:04:08.84\00:04:12.58
all I could hear was MUSIC, and
I could see the TV screens all
00:04:12.58\00:04:16.32
around the restaurant, and
it really wasn't what I expected
00:04:16.32\00:04:19.85
for a date night.
People laughing, drinking...
00:04:19.85\00:04:25.66
and I wanted to leave.
But as I turned and looked at
00:04:25.66\00:04:29.06
him, I noticed him
looking at the TV screens.
00:04:29.06\00:04:31.53
And when I saw that I thought,
"You know, I don't want to mess
00:04:31.53\00:04:35.30
it up for him, I
don't want to be selfish."
00:04:35.30\00:04:37.97
And so, I didn't say anything
and he said, "Honey, there's a
00:04:37.97\00:04:40.74
seat, there's a
table right over there."
00:04:40.74\00:04:42.51
And we walked and we
sat down. We ordered.
00:04:42.51\00:04:45.98
He, um, was
really into the game.
00:04:45.98\00:04:48.75
More into the game than
me, and I was feeling a little
00:04:48.75\00:04:50.15
jealous. But I
knew that we were going
00:04:50.15\00:04:54.12
to spend time over, his friend's
name was Duane Whitherspoon,
00:04:54.12\00:04:58.33
so we were going
to go to Duane's house
00:04:58.33\00:04:59.79
and we were going to see my
mother, so I figured I would
00:04:59.79\00:05:01.63
have enough quality time with
him by the time the date was
00:05:01.63\00:05:04.53
over. JOHN: and then as you do,
00:05:04.53\00:05:09.57
people leave the
restaurant. KAREN: Yes.
00:05:09.57\00:05:13.11
JOHN: You'd mentioned how
you'd started to feel, in the
00:05:13.11\00:05:15.61
restaurant, not everything
was perfect, and I don't know if
00:05:15.61\00:05:17.71
that was a portend of things
to come, but when it was time to
00:05:17.71\00:05:20.35
leave, walk us
through what happened next.
00:05:20.35\00:05:23.15
That's a very good
point, very good point.
00:05:23.15\00:05:25.32
Well, half way through the meal,
my husband says, "Uh, honey,
00:05:25.32\00:05:28.52
we're not going to
be able to see Mom."
00:05:28.52\00:05:31.86
And I thought, "Excuse me?"
He says, "We're not going to be
00:05:31.86\00:05:33.06
able to go over to Mom's
house." And I said, "Why?"
00:05:33.06\00:05:35.10
He said, "Because we
don't have enough time."
00:05:35.10\00:05:37.57
So I just immediately just
asked the waitress to come over
00:05:37.57\00:05:39.97
and please give us a
ticket so that we can go.
00:05:39.97\00:05:42.57
JOHN: And life is
about to change ...
00:05:42.57\00:05:44.24
KAREN: Yes. JOHN: ...
00:05:44.24\00:05:45.71
in the most terrible and drastic
way that a person could imagine.
00:05:45.71\00:05:50.75
I've read your book,
and it recounts the story.
00:05:50.75\00:05:54.95
You went to the parking lot, you
got into your car, sat in the
00:05:54.95\00:05:58.85
driver's seat ready to drive.
John did not immediately get
00:05:58.85\00:06:03.06
into the car. He
was on the phone.
00:06:03.06\00:06:05.56
And while he was on the phone,
you heard him say something.
00:06:05.56\00:06:08.73
KAREN: I did. I
heard him say "spoon," and
00:06:08.73\00:06:14.20
when he said spoon, I thought
oh they're just joking back and
00:06:14.20\00:06:18.24
forth, because him and
his friend would always joke.
00:06:18.24\00:06:20.74
My husband was a jokester.
He joked about and laughed about
00:06:20.74\00:06:22.98
everything. So he
said "spoon" and I
00:06:22.98\00:06:26.82
thought, "Oh, okay, you know,
they're talkin'...and then he
00:06:26.82\00:06:28.85
said, "Man get
that out of my face."
00:06:28.85\00:06:29.82
And so when I heard him say,
"Man get that out of my face."
00:06:29.82\00:06:31.99
I thought maybe his friend
cracked a joke, or something
00:06:31.99\00:06:35.26
and he said, "Aw man
get that out," you know?
00:06:35.26\00:06:37.76
And then I heard,
"POW!" ...and I just sat there.
00:06:37.76\00:06:43.20
JOHN: You didn't respond.
KAREN: I did not respond.
00:06:43.20\00:06:46.50
I ju, I just sat there.
What went through my mind, what
00:06:46.50\00:06:50.41
I can recall went
through my mind was SouthSack
00:06:50.41\00:06:53.91
is a little ways. That
happened out there, that,
00:06:53.91\00:06:57.15
that didn't happen
here, I didn't, you know.
00:06:57.15\00:06:59.05
So I heard it, but I just
discounted is as being maybe
00:06:59.05\00:07:02.72
something that happened way off
in the distance, so I just sat
00:07:02.72\00:07:05.02
there. When I
didn't hear anything,
00:07:05.02\00:07:08.42
I turned and I
looked to my right.
00:07:08.42\00:07:10.59
And he wasn't there.
Again, I went back to my forward
00:07:10.59\00:07:14.10
position, just looking.
After a few seconds, and again I
00:07:14.10\00:07:18.60
don't know how long it was,
I turned and looked over to my
00:07:18.60\00:07:21.30
left, and when I
looked to my left [pause]
00:07:21.30\00:07:25.07
I saw this man with a shotgun
on his shoulder, like this,
00:07:25.07\00:07:29.44
pointed up to the sky. And
when I saw that, immediately
00:07:29.44\00:07:33.72
everything started coming back,
uh, "spoon," "man get that out
00:07:33.72\00:07:37.19
of my face," the silence,
and then I saw the guy walkin'
00:07:37.19\00:07:40.49
with the shotgun.
Immediately I said,
00:07:40.49\00:07:42.19
"He's been shot."
He, he's been shot.
00:07:42.19\00:07:44.29
JOHN: And what did you do?
KAREN: Immediately I opened up a
00:07:44.29\00:07:46.83
car door to run around
to find, to find my husband.
00:07:46.83\00:07:50.43
When I opened up the car door,
he turns around-the murderer,
00:07:50.43\00:07:54.67
the person with the
shotgun-he turned around with...
00:07:54.67\00:07:57.87
like robotically, and he looked
right at me, in my direction.
00:07:57.87\00:08:02.28
And when he did, I ducked.
I ducked because I just knew,
00:08:02.28\00:08:04.95
one: he saw me, and two:
he was going to come back
00:08:04.95\00:08:08.08
and finish me off. And
what kept going through my
00:08:08.08\00:08:10.75
mind is, "I can identify him, he
saw me, he's going to come back
00:08:10.75\00:08:14.02
and he's gonna kill
me." So I was paranoid.
00:08:14.02\00:08:16.76
So I'm shaking, and I'm
ducking so that he won't see me,
00:08:16.76\00:08:21.03
but I see him. I
saw him the whole time.
00:08:21.03\00:08:23.73
And I'm just
shaking, and I truly believe
00:08:23.73\00:08:26.67
that I was praying. I
can't tell you what I was
00:08:26.67\00:08:29.34
saying, but I just, all I can
remember thinkin' is he's gonna
00:08:29.34\00:08:31.47
kill me, he's gonna
kill me, he's gonna kill me.
00:08:31.47\00:08:35.81
When he didn't see he, he turns
around again, very robotically,
00:08:35.81\00:08:38.41
and he starts
walking away from the car.
00:08:38.41\00:08:43.82
And when he did that I knew then
that that was the best time ever
00:08:43.82\00:08:48.66
to get out, and to find
out where my husband was.
00:08:48.66\00:08:51.66
So I immediately jumped out of
the car, and I ran around to the
00:08:51.66\00:08:57.37
passenger side, and I
could not believe what I saw.
00:08:57.37\00:09:00.07
My husband was laying there on
his back, with his eyes closed,
00:09:00.07\00:09:06.11
and all I could see was
his jugular vein pumping.
00:09:06.11\00:09:09.81
That's all I could see.
And all I could think is if I
00:09:09.81\00:09:14.52
if I just stay
there, he's gonna die.
00:09:14.52\00:09:16.38
I need to get help. And I
just ran, and I darted out
00:09:16.38\00:09:19.79
quickly, and I ran
back into the restaurant.
00:09:19.79\00:09:22.56
JOHN: Let me ask you. At
that moment, how much hope
00:09:22.56\00:09:27.60
did you have that
John was going to survive?
00:09:27.60\00:09:31.30
That John would live?
Or were you even thinking
00:09:31.30\00:09:33.37
about that? KAREN:
All I was thinking about
00:09:33.37\00:09:35.87
was getting help. At
that moment, I thought that
00:09:35.87\00:09:38.44
if I got help, he would live.
So, yes, I did have some hope
00:09:38.44\00:09:43.11
there. But when I got inside
00:09:43.11\00:09:46.18
the restaurant, it was
very difficult for me to get
00:09:46.18\00:09:51.29
the attention of the
patrons and/or of the management
00:09:51.29\00:09:53.69
there, because of the
music was so loud, the TVs
00:09:53.69\00:09:58.33
were blaring, people
were laughing...and I started
00:09:58.33\00:10:01.50
screaming out, I started
screaming and I started saying,
00:10:01.50\00:10:03.97
"My husband's been shot!"
And when I said, "My husband's
00:10:03.97\00:10:06.80
been shot!" nobody heard me.
00:10:06.80\00:10:10.34
And so, I changed my
plea, and I said, "CALL 911!
00:10:10.34\00:10:15.61
My husband's been shot!"
And when I said, "CALL 911!"
00:10:15.61\00:10:20.05
There were two men that were
sitting at the bar, but they
00:10:20.05\00:10:22.92
heard me and they turned around
and they said, they came over
00:10:22.92\00:10:26.05
to me and they said, "What?"
I said, "My husband's been
00:10:26.05\00:10:27.86
shot," I said "There's a
man outside, he's shooting, he's
00:10:27.86\00:10:30.13
shooting. My
husband's been shot!"
00:10:30.13\00:10:34.46
They immediately ran outside
with me and I pointed to our car
00:10:34.46\00:10:38.23
and I said, "He's
there." You know, showed them
00:10:38.23\00:10:39.80
my husband. But
they could still hear
00:10:39.80\00:10:42.50
the guy was shooting in
the air, and you could hear
00:10:42.50\00:10:45.57
round after round
going off in the air.
00:10:45.57\00:10:49.11
And they could
hear the shooting.
00:10:49.11\00:10:52.31
And after we were out
there I told them, "I'm gonna,"
00:10:52.31\00:10:54.92
I took off, and told
them I was going to run back
00:10:54.92\00:10:56.75
to my husband's side. And
they said, " Ma'am, no you
00:10:56.75\00:10:58.92
can't go." And I said, "Why?"
00:10:58.92\00:11:00.22
And they said,
"Because it's too dangerous."
00:11:00.22\00:11:01.59
I said, "But he needs me."
They says, "No ma'am, you need
00:11:01.59\00:11:04.49
to go back inside." And
I was like, "Why, why, why?
00:11:04.49\00:11:06.46
He needs me!"
However, the Lord knew that we
00:11:06.46\00:11:10.60
were going to be
there that night.
00:11:10.60\00:11:12.43
He knew we were going to
be there, and so there were
00:11:12.43\00:11:14.90
Christians in that restaurant.
There were believers, there were
00:11:14.90\00:11:17.44
"prayin' people"
in that restaurant.
00:11:17.44\00:11:20.64
And they started coming around
me and they started laying their
00:11:20.64\00:11:23.08
hands on me, and they started
comforting me, praying for me,
00:11:23.08\00:11:26.65
telling me...just comforting me.
JOHN: And it wasn't long after
00:11:26.65\00:11:30.82
that, you received word, or it
was inferred to you, that your
00:11:30.82\00:11:37.36
husband wasn't going to make it.
KAREN: It was inferred to me.
00:11:37.36\00:11:41.56
Later, minutes later, I guess
maybe a half hour or so later,
00:11:41.56\00:11:44.80
I don't know, this
other lady walked up to me,
00:11:44.80\00:11:46.74
she was a nurse,
and she walked up to me
00:11:46.74\00:11:48.80
and she stood right in my face,
I remember this and she said,
00:11:48.80\00:11:51.84
um, "Ma'am, I tried to give him
CPR, but they wouldn't let me."
00:11:51.84\00:11:55.21
And she just did
this... and she walked away.
00:11:55.21\00:12:02.95
And when she did that, I knew.
When she did this...I said,
00:12:02.95\00:12:08.19
"He's not gonna make
it." JOHN: What do you do?
00:12:08.19\00:12:12.39
You're full of hope. This
year is going to be a great
00:12:12.39\00:12:14.83
year. And that
very night, randomly,
00:12:14.83\00:12:20.34
everything ends. And
the life of the one you love
00:12:20.34\00:12:23.20
most is tragically,
senselessly, and brutally ended.
00:12:23.20\00:12:29.34
And then, you've got to
go ahead, and make a choice.
00:12:29.34\00:12:34.72
Am I going to live my
life, and put the pieces back
00:12:34.72\00:12:39.09
together, or is this
going to destroy me also?
00:12:39.09\00:12:41.59
Karen was
confronted by that choice.
00:12:41.59\00:12:43.73
Let's find out in just a
moment, how she responded when
00:12:43.73\00:12:47.20
the question was asked of her.
In Matthew 4:4, the Word of God
00:12:47.20\00:12:53.03
says, "Man shall not live by
bread alone but by every word
00:12:53.03\00:12:58.51
that proceeds
from the mouth of God.
00:12:58.51\00:13:00.68
Every Word is a one minute
Bible-based daily devotional
00:13:00.68\00:13:03.41
presented by pastor
John Bradshaw, and designed
00:13:03.41\00:13:06.82
especially for busy people
like you, look for Every Word on
00:13:06.82\00:13:10.85
selected networks, or watch it
online every day on our website,
00:13:10.85\00:13:14.72
itiswritten.com.
Receive a daily spiritual boost.
00:13:14.72\00:13:18.79
Watch Every Word,
you'll be glad you did.
00:13:18.79\00:13:21.86
Here's a smple
Astronomers in Australia
00:13:21.86\00:13:33.98
announced a few years
ago that they had calculated
00:13:33.98\00:13:36.21
the number of stars in
the sky. Seventy sextillion.
00:13:36.21\00:13:40.05
That's seventy thousand
million million million.
00:13:40.05\00:13:42.58
70 followed by 22 zeros.
That's more stars than there are
00:13:42.58\00:13:47.09
grains of sand in all the
Earth's deserts and beaches.
00:13:47.09\00:13:50.06
And the astronomers say
their number is way too low.
00:13:50.06\00:13:52.06
In Psalms 8:3-4
we read these words.
00:13:52.06\00:13:55.23
"When I consider thy heavens,
the works of thy fingers,
00:13:55.23\00:13:59.37
the moon and the stars,
which thou hast ordained,
00:13:59.37\00:14:02.10
what is man that
thou art mindful of him?"
00:14:02.10\00:14:04.81
God has made a universe
that vast, and yet He is still
00:14:04.81\00:14:08.41
'mindful' of the human
family. We serve a great,
00:14:08.41\00:14:11.45
and a big, God.
If He made all that -
00:14:11.45\00:14:14.02
and He did - you can be certain
00:14:14.02\00:14:16.08
He can take care of
you and your burdens today.
00:14:16.08\00:14:18.85
I'm John Bradshaw
for It Is Written.
00:14:18.85\00:14:21.52
Let's live today by Every Word.
Planning for your financial
00:14:21.52\00:14:28.73
future is a vital aspect
of Christian stewardship.
00:14:28.73\00:14:31.80
For this reason, It Is
Written is pleased to offer free
00:14:31.80\00:14:34.57
planned giving
and estate services.
00:14:34.57\00:14:37.04
For information on how
we can help you, please
00:14:37.04\00:14:38.87
call 1.800.992.2219. Call
today or visit our special
00:14:38.87\00:14:44.78
website, www.hislegacy
JOHN: On March 25, 2006,
00:14:44.78\00:14:58.03
Karen Johnson's
life was changed forever.
00:14:58.03\00:15:01.23
She and her husband John
had enjoyed an evening together,
00:15:01.23\00:15:04.63
when John's life was tragically
and brutally cut short by a man
00:15:04.63\00:15:10.17
high on methamphetamines,
wielding a shotgun and carrying
00:15:10.17\00:15:14.11
a Satanic Bible. I
don't think it's very hard for
00:15:14.11\00:15:17.98
you and I to imagine the sorts
of emotions Karen felt after
00:15:17.98\00:15:23.92
that awful event.
Anger, I don't know.
00:15:23.92\00:15:28.19
Malice, bitterness. We
can imagine these things.
00:15:28.19\00:15:32.16
But Karen was
confronted with a choice.
00:15:32.16\00:15:34.30
Do you let your life fall
apart? Do you fall into a pit of
00:15:34.30\00:15:37.73
despair and bitterness and hate?
Or somehow, do you try to piece
00:15:37.73\00:15:43.51
your life back together again,
and go on with your head held
00:15:43.51\00:15:48.14
high and your dignity in tact?
Karen, that's the decision you
00:15:48.14\00:15:53.11
were confronted with.
What was your response to that
00:15:53.11\00:15:57.09
decision, or to that question
when it was asked of you?
00:15:57.09\00:15:59.62
KAREN: Yeah...it was
very difficult, of course
00:15:59.62\00:16:03.76
[clears throat], it
was numerous things that
00:16:03.76\00:16:06.96
continued to
happen as I was grieving
00:16:06.96\00:16:10.30
through the process. One
of the most difficult things
00:16:10.30\00:16:12.70
was for me to be able to come
to terms, come to grips, that my
00:16:12.70\00:16:17.51
life has changed forever, I
felt so displaced, I felt like
00:16:17.51\00:16:21.54
someone who I could relate
to Joseph being thrown into the
00:16:21.54\00:16:25.01
pit. I could relate to Job
00:16:25.01\00:16:27.32
when he lost everything
just in the twinkling of an eye
00:16:27.32\00:16:29.85
[snaps fingers],
it was just all gone.
00:16:29.85\00:16:31.82
Um, those stories,
believe it or not, John,
00:16:31.82\00:16:34.99
helped me somehow to,
uh, bring perspective to what
00:16:34.99\00:16:39.49
I was dealing with
myself. I couldn't even breathe,
00:16:39.49\00:16:46.00
I couldn't even imagine
living past my next breath.
00:16:46.00\00:16:50.37
It was just that
hard. It was that difficult.
00:16:50.37\00:16:54.28
But I knew that I didn't,
you know, I didn't want to die,
00:16:54.28\00:16:58.48
and I knew I had to put
my life back together again.
00:16:58.48\00:17:00.25
JOHN: Now as a Christian,
you're supposed to be able
00:17:00.25\00:17:02.02
to lean on Jesus,
but as a Christian, we go
00:17:02.02\00:17:05.55
through this life
thinking, "Well God is going
00:17:05.55\00:17:08.29
to protect me, God is going
to keep harm from coming to me.
00:17:08.29\00:17:12.56
Yet in His ...
whatever we're going to call it
00:17:12.56\00:17:15.40
providence, or wisdom, or
all-knowing-ness, God allowed
00:17:15.40\00:17:19.50
this tragedy to strike.
Were there moments you were,
00:17:19.50\00:17:21.94
were angry with God? KAREN: No.
00:17:21.94\00:17:25.71
JOHN: No anger
with God? KAREN: No.
00:17:25.71\00:17:27.71
JOHN: Which is a
remarkable thing.
00:17:27.71\00:17:29.28
KAREN: No. JOHN:
What kind of conversations
00:17:29.28\00:17:31.45
did you have with
God? KAREN: "Why?"
00:17:31.45\00:17:33.28
I needed to know why. I
wanted to know why, I needed
00:17:33.28\00:17:35.48
to know why, but I wasn't angry
because I know that we wrestle
00:17:35.48\00:17:39.02
not with flesh and blood,
but against principalities and
00:17:39.02\00:17:41.72
powers and all of
that. I knew that.
00:17:41.72\00:17:45.49
I know about this
great controversy between
00:17:45.49\00:17:46.90
good and evil, between
Christ and Satan. I knew that.
00:17:46.90\00:17:50.03
So somehow, I realized
that I was a part of this great
00:17:50.03\00:17:54.14
controversy. Now,
what do I do with this?
00:17:54.14\00:17:58.17
And so, I proposed in my
heart to turn evil into good
00:17:58.17\00:18:02.71
but it wasn't easy
and it was a process.
00:18:02.71\00:18:05.75
JOHN: It had to have
been a monumental struggle.
00:18:05.75\00:18:07.28
KAREN: All I wanted to do was
to bring glory and honor to God.
00:18:07.28\00:18:10.82
That's what I wanted to
do. .The funeral, just at the
00:18:10.82\00:18:14.39
funeral, I wanted to put
my husband away in decency
00:18:14.39\00:18:18.93
and in order. And it
was a decision that I had
00:18:18.93\00:18:23.97
to make. My sister
said something to me,
00:18:23.97\00:18:26.30
she says. "You
know, you come from a very
00:18:26.30\00:18:28.34
strong family" and so I thought
that, you know, and then again
00:18:28.34\00:18:31.87
I thought about my relationship
with Christ, and things like
00:18:31.87\00:18:33.98
that so I think all of
that and the people that rallied
00:18:33.98\00:18:37.45
around me helped. JOHN:
So instead of just pushing
00:18:37.45\00:18:41.58
you away from God, like it would
for so many people, this event
00:18:41.58\00:18:44.85
drew you, urged
you even closer to God.
00:18:44.85\00:18:49.22
KAREN: More than ever before.
JOHN: And you were able to find
00:18:49.22\00:18:51.33
strength from
God in a senseless,
00:18:51.33\00:18:56.46
terrible
situation. KAREN: I was.
00:18:56.46\00:18:58.83
And, as I said, the big
question for me was "Why?"
00:18:58.83\00:19:01.07
Why John? Why me?
00:19:01.07\00:19:05.57
Why now? Why did
this have to happen?
00:19:05.57\00:19:08.34
Why? And he
revealed a lot of things
00:19:08.34\00:19:11.18
to me, over the year,
over the years, he revealed
00:19:11.18\00:19:14.68
a lot of stuff to me,
but that was the big question
00:19:14.68\00:19:16.69
so I wasn't angry, I
just wanted to know "why"
00:19:16.69\00:19:19.09
and it drew me closer to
Him. I turned into him instead
00:19:19.09\00:19:23.43
of turning away from him.
JOHN: Something you just said
00:19:23.43\00:19:25.46
and it comes out in your
book, "Covered and Kept",
00:19:25.46\00:19:27.93
KAREN: A ha. JOHN:
Forgiveness is a process.
00:19:27.93\00:19:30.07
KAREN: Yes. JOHN: So
you were able to bring
00:19:30.07\00:19:33.17
yourself to a
healthy place. KAREN: Yes.
00:19:33.17\00:19:36.50
JOHN: But it didn't
happen just like that.
00:19:36.50\00:19:38.31
KAREN: No, it did
not. No, not at all.
00:19:38.31\00:19:40.28
One of the things .. I
am into health and fitness,
00:19:40.28\00:19:45.41
and I follow the eight laws
of health, and I teach you know,
00:19:45.41\00:19:48.68
health reform to my
students and my classes,
00:19:48.68\00:19:49.62
and I had to put
all of this together.
00:19:49.62\00:19:52.29
When it happened, I
did not want to exercise.
00:19:52.29\00:19:56.26
I had lost 16 pounds
in a week and a half.
00:19:56.26\00:19:59.56
I was very weak. I was
very distraught but I knew
00:19:59.56\00:20:05.47
that I had to start practicing
again the principles that I was
00:20:05.47\00:20:06.94
teaching and
preaching to my students.
00:20:06.94\00:20:09.67
JOHN: And if you were ever going
to be whole, if you were ever
00:20:09.67\00:20:11.74
going to be complete, if
you were ever going to be
00:20:11.74\00:20:13.34
a functioning
successful Christian,
00:20:13.34\00:20:15.01
KAREN: Yes. JOHN:
You were going to have
00:20:15.01\00:20:17.38
to make a decision regarding
forgiveness and, in just
00:20:17.38\00:20:21.92
a moment, Karen is going to talk
to us and tell me how she was
00:20:21.92\00:20:26.55
able to wrestle with the idea of
forgiving the man who murdered
00:20:26.55\00:20:31.99
her husband, and she will
tell us whether or not she was
00:20:31.99\00:20:34.60
able to forgive.
I'll be right back.
00:20:34.60\00:20:37.33
Perhaps our program
today has touched your heart
00:20:39.03\00:20:41.27
and impressed you
with a personal need
00:20:41.27\00:20:43.24
for deeper Bible
study. If you desire to listen
00:20:43.24\00:20:46.11
to God and follow where he
leads, we've got a wonderful
00:20:46.11\00:20:49.08
resource that can help
you do that in a systemic way,
00:20:49.08\00:20:51.48
the Discover Bible Guides.
These study guides will take
00:20:51.48\00:20:55.55
you through the essential
truths taught in Scripture.
00:20:55.55\00:20:57.69
They give you the big
picture showing how it all fits
00:20:57.69\00:21:01.22
together. The
Discover Bible Guides
00:21:01.22\00:21:03.53
are a wonderful way
for you to become grounded
00:21:03.53\00:21:05.93
in the Word of God and
to see how Jesus Christ
00:21:05.93\00:21:08.73
relates to all the
areas of our lives.
00:21:08.73\00:21:11.73
Please call or write us
and the Discover Bible Guides
00:21:11.73\00:21:14.64
will be on their way to
you. If you live in North
00:21:14.64\00:21:17.64
America, we'll mail these
Bible guides free of charge.
00:21:17.64\00:21:20.34
Or for easier and immediate
access from anywhere around
00:21:20.34\00:21:23.35
the world, you can get
these wonderful Bible lessons on
00:21:23.35\00:21:26.51
our website, itiswritten.
00:21:26.51\00:21:29.42
Request the Discover Bible
Guides by calling our number
00:21:32.42\00:21:36.69
1 800 253 3000. Call
right now and tell us
00:21:36.69\00:21:41.43
the name of today's free offer,
00:21:41.43\00:21:43.37
the Discover Bible
Guides. Lines are open 24 hours.
00:21:43.37\00:21:47.27
If they are busy when
you call, keep trying.
00:21:47.27\00:21:50.37
You can also request
today's offer by writing to
00:21:50.37\00:21:52.67
It Is Written, Box O,
Thousand Oaks, CA 91359.
00:21:52.67\00:21:57.48
If you wish to
support the worldwide outreach
00:21:57.48\00:22:00.25
of It Is Written,
your tax-deductible gift
00:22:00.25\00:22:03.89
can be sent to the same
address. Or you can make a gift
00:22:03.89\00:22:07.59
online, at itiswritten.com.
Thank you for your letters
00:22:07.59\00:22:11.09
and for your continued
support. our toll free number
00:22:11.09\00:22:14.46
1 800 253 3000
and our web address
00:22:14.46\00:22:18.50
is, itiswritten.com.
JOHN; Karen, as a Christian,
00:22:18.50\00:22:25.01
you are going to start wrestling
with the question of forgiveness
00:22:25.01\00:22:28.28
KAREN: A ha. JOHN:
Even forgiving the man who
00:22:28.28\00:22:30.95
brutally took the
life of your husband,
00:22:30.95\00:22:34.48
KAREN: Yeah. JOHN:
And as you wrestled
00:22:34.48\00:22:35.98
with that, God brought you
to this place, to the cemetery
00:22:35.98\00:22:37.52
and spoke to you
here. KAREN. Yes He did.
00:22:37.52\00:22:39.55
Yes He did. JOHN:
How did he do that?
00:22:39.55\00:22:41.99
KAREN: Through his
Word. Speaking to heart.
00:22:41.99\00:22:44.86
I just kept being pulled here
and I couldn't understand why.
00:22:44.86\00:22:49.60
I would go to an appointment
with my mental health therapist,
00:22:49.60\00:22:52.73
and right after that
appointment, I would come right
00:22:52.73\00:22:55.54
here to the cemetery, and I
would stand here, right where we
00:22:55.54\00:22:59.34
are standing, and I know he is
dead, in the grave, I know that.
00:22:59.34\00:23:04.28
But I was talking to
the Lord, I was praying.
00:23:04.28\00:23:06.92
And I was asking him to show me
how to forgive, and John, I had
00:23:06.92\00:23:11.89
more than one
person to forgive as well.
00:23:11.89\00:23:14.69
But it was here at the
cemetery that I was able to find
00:23:14.69\00:23:16.62
that peace. JOHN;
And Karen, it was in the
00:23:16.62\00:23:19.26
courtroom, the day that the man
who murdered your husband was
00:23:19.26\00:23:20.86
sentenced. KAREN: Yeah.
00:23:20.86\00:23:22.50
JOHN: God gave you the
opportunity, impressed upon your
00:23:22.50\00:23:24.33
heart, to do something that
most of us would find absolutely
00:23:24.33\00:23:27.24
remarkable. How did that happen?
00:23:27.24\00:23:28.94
KAREN; Well, again, I did not
know what I was going to say and
00:23:28.94\00:23:32.91
my girlfriend prayed and said,
Let's allow Jesus, the Lord,
00:23:32.91\00:23:37.18
to put the words in your mouth.
And everything was orchestrated
00:23:37.18\00:23:41.15
where I would be the only person
who would speak on that day
00:23:41.15\00:23:45.02
to share with the judge,
the courtroom and the defendant
00:23:45.02\00:23:49.59
how I was impacted. I did
not know where I was going
00:23:49.59\00:23:52.96
to go, I started
off with independence,
00:23:52.96\00:23:54.20
but in the end, I looked
him in the eye, the murderer,
00:23:54.20\00:23:57.50
and I told him I forgave
him. I went on to tell him
00:23:57.50\00:24:02.34
that I do not condone ...
don't get it wrong ...I don't
00:24:02.34\00:24:06.47
condone with you did,
but, I said the second time,
00:24:06.47\00:24:10.65
I forgive you. Now,
up until that time he
00:24:10.65\00:24:14.35
showed no remorse whatsoever
and that was the first reaction,
00:24:14.35\00:24:17.19
the first reaction we got
to show us that there was,
00:24:17.19\00:24:22.79
that he had somewhat of a
heart, you know, and he said
00:24:22.79\00:24:27.50
thank you. Not
audibly, but with his lips,
00:24:27.50\00:24:31.27
he said thank you.
JOHN; I read in your book,
00:24:31.27\00:24:33.23
Covered and Kept hhe said
thank you to you not one time,
00:24:33.23\00:24:36.24
but twice. KAREN: Twice.
00:24:36.24\00:24:37.47
But twice. JOHN: I
know you are going to
00:24:37.47\00:24:42.18
understand what I
mean when I say this.
00:24:42.18\00:24:44.58
If there is anyone in this world
who did not deserve forgiveness,
00:24:44.58\00:24:48.92
it's the man who
murdered your husband.
00:24:48.92\00:24:50.99
He was in the wrong. We
could go through a whole long
00:24:50.99\00:24:53.46
list of things. KAREN: Yeah.
00:24:53.46\00:24:55.29
JOHN: From a human point
of view, he did not deserve
00:24:55.29\00:24:56.99
forgiveness. KAREN: Um hum.
00:24:56.99\00:24:59.13
JOHN: But that is
not the standpoint you
00:24:59.13\00:25:00.70
were operating
from. KAREN: It was not.
00:25:00.70\00:25:01.96
It was not. And I
know now and I knew then
00:25:01.96\00:25:04.17
why God kept sending me here to
this cemetery because every time
00:25:04.17\00:25:09.00
as I drove around here
crying, sad, grief, remorseful,
00:25:09.00\00:25:13.24
depressed, I was playing Via
Dolorosa, as a matter of fact,
00:25:13.24\00:25:17.78
Jaime Jorge, I would listen to
that, tears rolling down my face
00:25:17.78\00:25:21.92
and what I could see was
Jesus hanging on the cross.
00:25:21.92\00:25:24.85
That's what he showed
me. That's what I could see.
00:25:24.85\00:25:27.69
He didn't die just
for me and you but he died
00:25:27.69\00:25:29.26
for the Aaron Duns of the world,
those people that are murdering
00:25:29.26\00:25:33.36
and do wrong. And again,
00:25:33.36\00:25:36.30
there are consequences to
our actions and I wanted him
00:25:36.30\00:25:39.17
to understand that
but also I wanted him
00:25:39.17\00:25:41.00
to understand that he
has an opportunity to give
00:25:41.00\00:25:43.77
his life to Christ
if he chose and that was
00:25:43.77\00:25:47.74
the message that I believe
God wanted me to share with him
00:25:47.74\00:25:49.84
at that time.
JOHN: That's the message
00:25:49.84\00:25:51.21
of grace. The
same mercy that God has
00:25:51.21\00:25:53.65
shown sinners
like me. KAREN; Yes.
00:25:53.65\00:25:57.85
JOHN; You then
extended and demonstrated
00:25:57.85\00:26:01.72
to this man,
guilty, sentenced to death.
00:26:01.72\00:26:06.09
KAREN; Yes, sentenced
to death, that's right.
00:26:06.09\00:26:08.60
JOHN: But you showed him grace,
forgiveness, pardon undeserved.
00:26:08.60\00:26:12.27
KAREN: Yes. JOHN: That is one
00:26:12.27\00:26:15.17
of the powerful things about
your story, how it played out
00:26:15.17\00:26:18.44
down at this end of
the story. KAREN: YES.
00:26:18.44\00:26:20.44
JOHN: It mirrors what
God has done for me and you.
00:26:20.44\00:26:22.38
What God has done for
everybody. KAREN: Yes.
00:26:22.38\00:26:24.25
Yes. I agree.
00:26:24.25\00:26:26.18
JOHN; Thanks for
sharing your story with me.
00:26:26.18\00:26:27.65
KAREN; And thank you.
JOHN; Thank you so very much.
00:26:27.65\00:26:29.12
KAREN; Yes. JOHN;
You know friend, God
00:26:29.12\00:26:31.89
is a God of great
grace. A God of great mercy.
00:26:31.89\00:26:35.49
He is a God of justice,
but he is a God who is good.
00:26:35.49\00:26:39.83
There are people in this world
and you are one of them who do
00:26:39.83\00:26:44.23
not deserve forgiveness.
Who do not deserve goodness.
00:26:44.23\00:26:48.24
Who do not forgive grace.
But God, through his Son Jesus
00:26:48.24\00:26:54.21
Christ, has come to this earth
to offer us pardon, forgiveness,
00:26:54.21\00:26:59.85
cleansing, and wholeness, even
though we do not deserve it.
00:26:59.85\00:27:05.22
God has offered that to
us. Let's pray together now
00:27:05.22\00:27:09.69
and thank God for that
goodness, for that grace.
00:27:09.69\00:27:13.56
Let's pray together.
Our father in heaven, we can
00:27:13.56\00:27:16.77
just say thank you today because
you are good when we are not you
00:27:16.77\00:27:21.40
are great and good and right but
I thank you that for the sinners
00:27:21.40\00:27:27.34
of this world you offer grace,
you offer pardon, you offer
00:27:27.34\00:27:30.91
forgiveness. We don't
deserve it but as Karen
00:27:30.91\00:27:34.28
has demonstrated, grace is so
powerful when it is not deserved
00:27:34.28\00:27:39.59
and Lord, I wish that it wi have
a powerful affect in our lives
00:27:39.59\00:27:43.63
now. Bless us
please, for your honor
00:27:43.63\00:27:46.13
and glory, in Jesus name.
Amen Thank you for joining me
00:27:46.13\00:27:52.43
today and until we meet again
next time, please remember,
00:27:52.43\00:27:55.44
It is Written man
shall not live by bread alone
00:27:55.44\00:27:58.74
but by every word that
proceeds from the mouth of God.
00:27:58.74\00:28:03.41