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>>John: Thanks for joining
me today on It Is Written.
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Today, we're
discussing the very important
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and very biblical
subject of forgiveness.
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And I have a
special guest with me today;
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his name is Dick Tibbits.
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He's a speaker; he is an author.
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He's also the Chief People
Officer for Florida Hospital.
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And he's written a book
called “Forgive to Live.”
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Dick, thank you so
much for taking time today.
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>>Dick: It's good to
be back again, thank you.
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>>John: This
subject of forgiveness,
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such an important subject.
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Such a biblical subject.
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Now, let's dive into
this by going straight
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to the Lord's Prayer.
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Jesus taught us to say,
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“Forgive us our debts
as we forgive our debtors.”
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That's interesting, isn't it?
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>>Dick: Yes, in fact,
at the end of the prayer
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there's even a commentary
that clarifies that and it says,
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“If you do not forgive others,
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your heavenly Father
will not forgive you.”
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Now, that is scary to think
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that there's
something I could fail to do,
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and all of a sudden
God's gonna to withhold
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His forgiveness from me?
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>>John: It seems to me
that as Jesus was saying this,
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He was very, very clear.
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He was clear.
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If you don't
forgive, uh, others,
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you can't really
expect God to forgive you.
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It doesn't seem to
me like Jesus is saying,
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"Now, there's a way for
you to earn forgiveness."
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So clearly what He's doing is
He's linking this attitude that
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we might have with others,
and saying that this attitude
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we do or don't have, uh,
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somehow perhaps
makes it impossible for us
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to receive the
grace and goodness of God.
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>>Dick: Yeah,
because God's forgiving me
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gives me a future
benefit in eternal life.
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My forgiving someone
else gives me a benefit today.
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Because today when I practice
forgiveness I can be released
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from the bitterness that has
kept me entrapped for decades.
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So it's really what
God is saying is not,
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"I won't do this
if you don't do that."
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What He's saying is,
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"I can't give you the blessing
that forgiveness entails
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unless you're willing to receive
that by forgiving others."
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>>John: Forgiveness
is good for a person.
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>>Dick: Yes.
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>>John: On all kinds of levels.
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>>Dick: Yes.
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>>John: Interpersonally,
emotionally, physically even.
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Even good for you
physically to forgive.
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That's remarkable.
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>>Dick: Yep, and
we've discussed that, how,
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how forgiveness can change my
blood pressure and improve it,
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how forgiveness can
change my outlook on life
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so that I move from
bitterness to better.
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Which is a whole
good way to do life.
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I really feel for people
who have experienced pain
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who don't know how to
get out of bitterness.
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That's why I teach forgiveness,
to give them a way out.
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>>John: Well, let's do
some teaching right now.
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We've established, even today,
and last time we met together,
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that forgiveness is good for
a person, on all those levels.
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It's biblical,
Jesus mandated it,
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He, He said to, it was
Peter, no, not seven times,
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seventy times seven.
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We talked in the past
about how forgiveness,
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really it's kind
of a process, really.
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You might be able to
forgive someone right away;
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they burned the toast, you can
get over that pretty quickly.
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If someone causes some
terrible, grievous injury,
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you know, that's going to
be harder to work through.
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Let's talk about
the how of forgiveness.
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I don't know that there
would be very many people,
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there'd be some,
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but there will not be
very many people who would say,
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“I do not want to forgive.”
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>>Dick: Right.
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>>John: I think the vast
majority of people would say,
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“I want to forgive.”
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But some things are
easier said than done.
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Help me to
understand, how to forgive.
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>>Dick: Well, the first
step is the most obvious,
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but it's the most
important, and that is,
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I must choose forgiveness.
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You see, when
something happens to me,
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I frequently react.
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Um, psychologists call it
the famous stimulus response.
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Stimulus, something
occurs; response, I react.
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And in that thing,
so somebody hurts me
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or somebody does
something mean to me,
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I react in pain and suffering.
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Forgiveness adds
to that by saying,
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“I have a choice to make.”
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And this is
critically important,
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because we now know it's choice,
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not circumstance,
that determines our life.
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It's not the
things that happen to me
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that determine what
my life will become.
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It's the choices that I make.
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>>John: It's how you
respond to those stimuli.
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>>Dick: Yeah.
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And so, I teach people to almost
become Shakespearian in this.
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When someone happens to,
something happens to you,
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the question to
ask yourself is this:
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to forgive or not to
forgive, that is the question.
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>>John: Well, let me ask
you a question about that.
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When do you ask that question?
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Um, someone backs into
my car in the parking lot,
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my lovely vehicle,
I just had it painted,
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causes terrible damage.
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When do I want to be
asking myself about forgiveness?
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Right then?
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Or after we've called insurance?
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>>Dick: [chuckles] You want
to start the forgiveness process
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as soon as it comes to
your mind that you can forgive.
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You see, most of
us do things, um,
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without thinking about it.
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It's called consciousness
and unconsciousness.
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And John, I'd like to
invite you to do something
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that'll help us to
always remember this,
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and I want to invite our
viewing audience to do the same.
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I simply want us to clasp
our hands together like that,
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if you could do
that, and just stop,
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and ask and look,
which thumb is on the top?
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Is it the left
thumb or the right thumb?
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And let me tell
you the secret to this.
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Half of the world will
have their left thumb on top
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and half of the world will
have their right thumb on top.
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It has nothing to do with
whether you're left-handed
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or right-handed.
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It simply has to do with
how you did it the first time,
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and then how you
do it every time.
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So John, when you
put your hands together,
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did you think, which
thumb will I put on top?
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>>John: No, I did not.
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And I tell you
what, every time I do it,
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same thing.
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>>Dick: Same thing.
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>>John: It doesn't feel right
to have my left thumb on top.
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It's right on top
every single time.
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>>Dick: When
you do it backwards,
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it feels very awkward.
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>>John: No, no, if I
did that I would change.
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I would say,
that's just not right.
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>>Dick: And yet half
the world does it that way
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and thinks the way
you do it is awkward.
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My point being
is, when we did this,
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we didn't think.
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That was an unconscious action.
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When we've been hurt, we are
going to unconsciously react.
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So when, when
somebody bangs into my car,
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I might not think of
forgiveness right away.
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But when the
thought comes in, and we,
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and we can say a
prayer that, "God,
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when I have been hurt,
please remind me to forgive,"
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God will bring the
thought of forgiveness.
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When the thought comes,
that's when I choose to forgive.
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>>John: You spoke a
moment ago and said,
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you referenced the
forgiveness process.
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You know, I think one of
the difficult things about
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forgiveness is people
have all of these mis-
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misconceived
ideas or misperceptions
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about what forgiveness is.
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Forgiveness doesn't
happen in an instant.
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Forgive and forget,
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last time we spoke we
talked about forgive and forget.
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>>Dick: Yeah.
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>>John: That's not even reality.
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Um, so how does this
forgiveness process work?
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>>Dick: Easy.
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I choose to forgive,
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and I have that sense
that I've made that decision.
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However...
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>>John: You backed
into my car, I said,
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I really need to
forgive that guy,
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and I'm going to do this.
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>>Dick: Yep.
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However, two hours
later or the next day, um,
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I have to call my
insurance company,
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and all of a
sudden I'm aware, wow,
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this came, this took
money out of my pocket.
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>>John: Oh, yeah.
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>>Dick: I thought I was covered,
but I have a deductible.
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This person just
cost me $500, or whatever.
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And I'm upset again.
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>>John: I'm mad now.
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>>Dick: I'm mad again.
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Ah, choose to forgive again.
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And so I forgive
again and I'm fine,
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until a couple days,
I go to the body shop,
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and they talk about, you know,
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matching the
paint, and they do it,
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and it doesn't quite
look as perfect as it did new.
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And so now I've got a car
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that's always going
to have this defect.
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And it upsets me again.
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>>John: And as long
as I've got that car,
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every time I look at it...
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>>Dick: I'm going to remember.
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>>John: Yeah.
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>>Dick: However, every time I
can feel the upsetness coming,
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the hurt or the anger rising,
I choose to forgive again.
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And that's why I
think, um, Christ's, um,
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advice was, I tell you
not to forgive seven times.
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I wish I could
tell you to forgive
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once or twice and it's over.
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Some things it is over.
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It is that easy.
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But there are other
things that it'll be forgiveness
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and forgiveness.
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So let me offer
you this assistance.
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When I forgive, it can
be discouraging because
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I just forgave yesterday
and I forgave the day before,
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and it keeps coming back.
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Nothing's getting better.
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>>John: Sure.
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>>Dick: Does forgiveness work?
00:10:07.40\00:10:09.14
What I tell people
is there's two things
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that will begin to
occur each time you forgive.
00:10:11.81\00:10:15.54
One is the intensity
will become less and less.
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It still might be upsetting
but it won't be as upsetting.
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Every time I
reduce that intensity,
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I'm benefiting from
the gift of forgiveness.
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And the second thing
that'll change is frequency.
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Yeah, I'll remember it again.
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But I was
remembering it every hour,
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now I'm only
remembering it every day,
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and a time will come when
I'll only recall it every month,
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and then maybe
once or twice a year,
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and then maybe, maybe I‘ll
remember it and maybe I won't.
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Intensity and frequency
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are the indicators of the
effectiveness of forgiveness.
00:10:45.94\00:10:49.18
>>John: In your
book “Forgive to Live,”
00:10:49.21\00:10:51.81
you write about something
that is a key component
00:10:51.85\00:10:56.58
in practicing forgiveness.
00:10:56.62\00:10:59.09
That's something
called reframing.
00:10:59.12\00:11:00.86
>>Dick: Yes.
00:11:00.89\00:11:02.09
>>John: We're going to talk
about that in just a moment.
00:11:02.12\00:11:03.32
>>Dick: Good.
00:11:03.36\00:11:03.99
>>John: Just a moment.
00:11:04.03\00:11:04.66
Reframing.
00:11:04.69\00:11:05.46
You will not want to miss this.
00:11:05.49\00:11:07.30
I'll be right back.
00:11:07.36\00:11:08.40
>>John: There are hundreds,
even thousands of promises
00:11:09.56\00:11:11.77
in the Bible,
00:11:11.80\00:11:12.90
all made by God
to be a blessing,
00:11:12.93\00:11:14.80
and an encouragement for you.
00:11:14.84\00:11:17.17
Receive today's free offer.
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It's “Promises of Peace.”
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Be blessed by
the promises of God.
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To receive “Promises of Peace,”
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call us at 800-253-3000
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or visit us
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and receive our free offer,
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“Promises of Peace.”
00:11:35.32\00:11:38.73
>>John: Thanks for
joining me on It Is Written.
00:11:40.36\00:11:42.13
My guest today, Dick Tibbits,
the author of “Forgive to Live”
00:11:42.16\00:11:45.47
and the chief people
officer at Florida Hospital.
00:11:45.50\00:11:48.40
Dick, in your
book “Forgive to Live,”
00:11:48.44\00:11:50.01
you talk about
something that's a key component
00:11:50.04\00:11:52.64
in the process of forgiveness,
00:11:52.67\00:11:55.08
and that's
something you call reframing.
00:11:55.11\00:11:57.98
Explain that to me.
00:11:58.01\00:11:59.01
>>Dick: Well,
reframing is taking an event
00:11:59.05\00:12:03.65
and seeing it from a
different perspective.
00:12:03.69\00:12:05.52
Um, we all view life
from our frame of reference.
00:12:05.55\00:12:09.52
>>John: Sure.
00:12:09.56\00:12:10.76
>>Dick: You know, depending
on our background, our history.
00:12:10.79\00:12:12.39
So reframing is taking
that frame of reference that
00:12:12.43\00:12:15.80
I'm used to viewing things as
and looking at them differently.
00:12:15.83\00:12:19.10
Um, good illustration,
when you go to the art shop
00:12:19.13\00:12:22.84
and you put a
frame around a picture.
00:12:22.87\00:12:25.01
I can bring the frame in
close and get just the portrait.
00:12:25.04\00:12:28.18
Or I can expand the
frame and get a family picture.
00:12:28.21\00:12:31.41
What I see, what I choose to see
in my frame is how I see life.
00:12:31.45\00:12:36.48
>>John: Let's see
if we can work this
00:12:36.52\00:12:38.99
with a few concrete examples.
00:12:39.02\00:12:40.59
I mentioned before,
you backed into my car.
00:12:40.62\00:12:42.16
Okay, you backed into my car
and I'm madder than a wet hen
00:12:42.19\00:12:45.66
because you backed into my car.
00:12:45.69\00:12:47.30
Maybe if I pulled the frame out
a little bit I would see, what?
00:12:47.30\00:12:51.60
>>Dick: Part of
it is you could see,
00:12:51.63\00:12:53.27
maybe, a
circumstance in my life.
00:12:53.30\00:12:55.40
Um, I may have just
gotten a phone call that my, um,
00:12:55.44\00:12:59.34
my mother was in
critical condition,
00:12:59.37\00:13:01.34
and all's I can think
about is what do I say to her,
00:13:01.38\00:13:04.15
and what do I need to
say, is she going to be alive?
00:13:04.18\00:13:06.58
And I'm so
distracted with that thought
00:13:06.61\00:13:08.25
as I'm not driving as I
normally would carefully drive.
00:13:08.28\00:13:11.22
And so while I'm
thinking about that,
00:13:11.25\00:13:13.19
you stop, I didn't see
it, my reaction is delayed,
00:13:13.22\00:13:16.06
and I hit you.
00:13:16.09\00:13:17.09
Now, I still hit you,
and it wasn't your fault
00:13:17.13\00:13:20.06
and you still
deserve the right to, um,
00:13:20.10\00:13:22.66
collect from my insurance.
00:13:22.70\00:13:23.93
And none of that changes.
00:13:23.97\00:13:25.60
But rather than you
seeing me as a stupid,
00:13:25.63\00:13:27.60
what were you
thinking, what were you doing,
00:13:27.64\00:13:29.54
you now see me
as maybe something
00:13:29.57\00:13:31.11
you can understand yourself.
00:13:31.14\00:13:32.27
>>John: Someone is shot
dead, there's a grieving family.
00:13:32.31\00:13:39.05
Let's see if we can
pull the frame back.
00:13:39.08\00:13:41.42
Um, dead loved
one, mad man with a gun.
00:13:41.45\00:13:47.46
But perhaps,
perhaps the guy was high on,
00:13:47.49\00:13:50.76
on drugs, wasn't in
control of his capacities.
00:13:50.79\00:13:55.03
Uh, then you could talk
about perhaps his upbringing and
00:13:55.06\00:13:57.80
some of the other unfortunate
circumstances of his life.
00:13:57.83\00:14:00.44
Would that be reframing?
00:14:00.47\00:14:01.67
>>Dick: That would be reframing.
00:14:01.70\00:14:03.27
And part of reframing is
how large we make our frame.
00:14:03.30\00:14:06.47
>>John: Let me
ask you a question.
00:14:06.51\00:14:07.81
>>Dick: Yes.
00:14:07.84\00:14:09.04
>>John: Because I hear someone
who's watching us saying,
00:14:09.08\00:14:10.85
you're letting
the guy off the hook.
00:14:10.88\00:14:12.28
Am I letting the guy
off the hook by reframing?
00:14:12.31\00:14:14.88
Well, the poor dear, he
had a drug problem and he had,
00:14:14.92\00:14:17.99
he didn't have a
daddy, and poor fellow.
00:14:18.02\00:14:21.02
Is that what I'm doing?
00:14:21.06\00:14:21.72
>>Dick: No.
00:14:21.76\00:14:22.49
A couple of things.
00:14:22.52\00:14:23.49
Number one, the
facts are the facts.
00:14:23.53\00:14:25.06
Reframing
doesn't change the facts.
00:14:25.09\00:14:27.30
Number two, every
action has consequences.
00:14:27.30\00:14:30.27
And so reframing doesn't change
the consequences to an act.
00:14:30.30\00:14:33.57
The person may need
to serve time in jail
00:14:33.60\00:14:35.87
to reflect upon what they did,
00:14:35.90\00:14:37.97
so they don't do it
again with the thoughtfulness
00:14:38.01\00:14:40.04
that they might
have done that time.
00:14:40.08\00:14:42.44
But the other
thing reframing does is,
00:14:42.48\00:14:44.81
I live a world of sin.
00:14:44.85\00:14:46.48
I live in a world
where evil happens,
00:14:46.51\00:14:48.85
where hurt happens.
00:14:48.88\00:14:50.19
I cannot live in
a protected world
00:14:50.22\00:14:52.05
where nothing bad happens to me.
00:14:52.09\00:14:54.32
You know, good, bad
things happen to good people.
00:14:54.36\00:14:56.66
>>John: Yeah.
00:14:56.69\00:14:57.76
>>Dick: So I need to
have a perspective that says,
00:14:57.79\00:15:00.40
you know, at some
point it's in God's hands.
00:15:00.43\00:15:03.23
God has a view of the
world different than mine.
00:15:03.26\00:15:05.43
And if I can
turn it over to God,
00:15:05.47\00:15:07.97
then I'm not stuck
with all the difficulties
00:15:08.00\00:15:11.34
and trials of this
world, but I share it.
00:15:11.37\00:15:14.14
It's almost like the yoke.
00:15:14.18\00:15:15.84
God takes some of my
burden and shares it with me
00:15:15.88\00:15:18.51
because I'm
bringing Him into my world.
00:15:18.55\00:15:20.65
>>John: So reframing helps
me to step back a little bit,
00:15:20.68\00:15:25.25
look at the big picture,
and then, I'm going to suggest,
00:15:25.29\00:15:29.42
what it enables me to do
is to perhaps more easily
00:15:29.46\00:15:33.96
choose the forgiveness option,
00:15:34.00\00:15:35.66
rather than seeing someone as
a, as a tyrant or a moron or a,
00:15:35.70\00:15:39.43
or an idiot or whatever;
I'm now seeing that person who,
00:15:39.47\00:15:43.34
like me, is subject to various,
00:15:43.37\00:15:45.24
um, dynamics in his or her
life and maybe was under stress,
00:15:45.27\00:15:49.14
strain, reaction, whatever.
00:15:49.18\00:15:50.78
>>Dick: Exactly.
00:15:50.81\00:15:51.98
In fact, what I tell people
is that reframing is really,
00:15:52.01\00:15:54.62
uh, seeing the person in
a more, um, holistic view.
00:15:54.65\00:15:58.75
When I'm upset at someone, I
notice all of your bad points.
00:15:58.79\00:16:02.59
I, I've experienced this when
00:16:02.62\00:16:04.06
I get into an
argument with a friend.
00:16:04.09\00:16:05.79
They bring back all the
things they can think of
00:16:05.83\00:16:07.96
that I've done wrong.
00:16:07.96\00:16:09.20
And when someone's hurt us,
we tend to make them all bad.
00:16:09.23\00:16:12.27
Well, I got to tell you,
there is no one all good,
00:16:12.30\00:16:15.10
and there is no one all bad.
00:16:15.14\00:16:17.01
Reframing is
bringing the good and the bad.
00:16:17.04\00:16:20.01
Because if I don't, I get
so locked into all the terrible
00:16:20.04\00:16:23.08
things they do, is
that's all I see the person.
00:16:23.11\00:16:26.08
And you see that.
00:16:26.11\00:16:26.95
Best friends, and
something happens,
00:16:26.98\00:16:29.32
and all of a sudden that best
friend becomes my worst enemy.
00:16:29.35\00:16:31.29
>>John: Mmm.
00:16:31.32\00:16:32.25
>>Dick: Before I saw
their good and the bad,
00:16:32.29\00:16:33.59
and now I only see their bad
00:16:33.62\00:16:35.06
and I don't want
anything to do with them.
00:16:35.09\00:16:36.99
You know, I'm thankful, John,
00:16:37.03\00:16:38.43
that God sees the good
in me and not just the bad.
00:16:38.46\00:16:42.60
Because if He didn't, we'd
be in a terrible predicament.
00:16:42.63\00:16:46.20
>>John: Yeah, we
sure would, wouldn't we?
00:16:46.23\00:16:48.74
“If we confess our sins,
00:16:48.77\00:16:51.14
He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins.”
00:16:51.17\00:16:55.74
And again back to
the Lord's prayer,
00:16:55.78\00:16:58.48
“Forgive us our debts
as we forgive our debtors.”
00:16:58.51\00:17:03.82
This really isn't
up for grabs, is it?
00:17:03.85\00:17:05.69
This is not
optional, it's a must.
00:17:05.72\00:17:07.06
>>Dick: It is a must.
00:17:07.09\00:17:08.02
Because when I'm
angry, I'm blinded.
00:17:08.06\00:17:10.76
You've heard the
expression, “Love is blind”?
00:17:10.79\00:17:12.73
>>John: Um-hmm.
00:17:12.76\00:17:14.00
>>Dick: I mean, I really got in
touch with that when my daughter
00:17:14.00\00:17:14.93
had her first
boyfriend, and I go,
00:17:14.93\00:17:16.33
what are you thinking!
00:17:16.36\00:17:17.10
>>John: [laughs]
00:17:17.13\00:17:18.13
>>Dick: But when
you're in love with someone,
00:17:18.17\00:17:19.00
what's all you
see in that person?
00:17:19.03\00:17:20.77
>>John: Yeah, all the
good, all the wonderful things.
00:17:20.80\00:17:22.54
>>Dick: All the good.
And you don't see the bad.
00:17:22.57\00:17:24.21
Well, I'm going to tell
you, anger is equally as blind.
00:17:24.24\00:17:26.64
Because when I'm
angry at someone,
00:17:26.68\00:17:28.51
I only see their bad;
I don't see their good.
00:17:28.54\00:17:32.11
And that's why we
cannot relate to the world
00:17:32.15\00:17:34.32
or even another
individual out of anger,
00:17:34.35\00:17:36.48
because we will
distort our picture.
00:17:36.52\00:17:39.05
That's why I say,
forgiveness is reframing.
00:17:39.09\00:17:41.32
It's getting the
picture more accurate,
00:17:41.36\00:17:43.89
more complete.
00:17:43.93\00:17:44.93
>>John: Do you think
that forgiveness helps us
00:17:44.96\00:17:47.10
to have a more
complete picture of who God is?
00:17:47.13\00:17:49.40
>>Dick: Oh, absolutely.
00:17:49.43\00:17:51.00
It, well, first of
all, my forgiving others
00:17:51.03\00:17:55.10
and understanding how
difficult that is helps me
00:17:55.14\00:17:58.11
not to take God's
forgiveness for granted.
00:17:58.14\00:18:01.04
He went to Calvary so
that I could be forgiven.
00:18:01.08\00:18:04.68
I need to recognize that God
struggled with that forgiveness.
00:18:04.71\00:18:09.78
“If it be
possible, let this cup...”
00:18:09.82\00:18:12.42
But He chose, He stayed
with His choice because He knew
00:18:12.45\00:18:17.09
that the alternative to
forgiveness is destruction.
00:18:17.13\00:18:20.33
>>John: So, so it's
okay if someone says,
00:18:20.36\00:18:25.60
"I really want to forgive
X, but I find it so difficult"?
00:18:25.63\00:18:29.80
It's okay?
00:18:29.84\00:18:30.77
>>Dick: In fact, not
okay, that's reality.
00:18:30.81\00:18:33.21
If it's not difficult, I tell
people, it's not forgiveness.
00:18:33.24\00:18:36.48
It's denial.
00:18:36.51\00:18:37.85
To quickly forgive
someone like it didn't happen,
00:18:37.88\00:18:40.55
that, that's just denial.
00:18:40.58\00:18:42.42
Forgiveness deals right
head on with the struggle.
00:18:42.45\00:18:45.89
So when I forgive someone,
00:18:45.92\00:18:47.06
it doesn't mean I
have to smile and say,
00:18:47.09\00:18:48.39
the world is wonderful.
00:18:48.42\00:18:49.96
I can forgive
you and yet tell you,
00:18:49.99\00:18:51.73
John, that what
you did hurt me deeply.
00:18:51.76\00:18:54.56
And I'm going to have to
work to get over this pain,
00:18:54.56\00:18:56.73
I'm going to
work to get over it,
00:18:56.77\00:18:58.33
but I want you to know,
I'm not gonna blame you.
00:18:58.37\00:19:01.14
I'm not gonna come to
the place where I believe
00:19:01.17\00:19:03.37
that my life is your fault.
00:19:03.41\00:19:05.41
I'm gonna seek forgiveness
so that I can live my life.
00:19:05.44\00:19:08.01
And I want you to know that.
00:19:08.04\00:19:09.04
>>John: Forgiveness
is such a powerful thing.
00:19:09.08\00:19:12.11
Jesus encouraged
us to forgive others;
00:19:12.15\00:19:14.72
every day we receive forgiveness
from the God of heaven.
00:19:14.75\00:19:18.05
More on forgiveness with
Dick Tibbits in just a moment.
00:19:18.09\00:19:21.52
>>John: Thursday,
August the fifth, 2010
00:19:22.62\00:19:25.36
was not a happy day for 33 men,
00:19:25.39\00:19:29.36
when a collapse
in a mine in Chile
00:19:29.40\00:19:32.13
buried them 2,300
feet below ground.
00:19:32.17\00:19:37.54
No matter how much
they tried to escape,
00:19:37.57\00:19:39.87
there was no way out.
00:19:39.91\00:19:41.58
Rescue would have
to come from above.
00:19:41.61\00:19:46.15
On the outskirts
of the San Jose Mine,
00:19:46.18\00:19:48.55
over two and a half
thousand people gathered,
00:19:48.58\00:19:52.12
and with each
failed rescue attempt,
00:19:52.15\00:19:54.32
despair increased.
00:19:54.36\00:19:57.16
Families gathered
together to pray for a miracle.
00:19:57.19\00:20:02.56
From the Atacama Desert
comes a story of tragedy,
00:20:02.60\00:20:05.77
a story of uncertainty,
yet a story of courage,
00:20:05.80\00:20:09.54
hope, and ultimately,
a story of salvation.
00:20:09.57\00:20:13.54
Wait on the Lord, and
the miracle will come.
00:20:13.58\00:20:17.91
“Trapped.”
00:20:17.95\00:20:19.05
Watch now on itiswritten.tv.
00:20:19.08\00:20:22.72
>>John: Today on It Is
Written, how to forgive.
00:20:24.39\00:20:27.79
Thanks so much for
being with me today.
00:20:27.82\00:20:30.23
I'm with Dick
Tibbits, Chief People Officer
00:20:30.26\00:20:32.09
at Florida
Hospital and the author of
00:20:32.13\00:20:34.46
“Forgive to Live.”
00:20:34.46\00:20:36.63
The benefits of
forgiveness, Dick.
00:20:36.67\00:20:39.67
>>Dick: Um-hmm.
00:20:39.70\00:20:40.74
>>John: What are they
and how do we realize them?
00:20:40.77\00:20:42.47
>>Dick: Well,
that's the whole crux.
00:20:42.50\00:20:44.54
I forgive because it
makes my life better.
00:20:44.57\00:20:47.31
I tell people, you can
either complain and blame
00:20:47.34\00:20:50.51
or you can forgive and live.
00:20:50.55\00:20:52.48
Because forgiveness,
00:20:52.51\00:20:53.68
once it sets me free
from the control of the past,
00:20:53.72\00:20:56.95
then invites me to say,
where do I want my life to go?
00:20:56.99\00:21:00.92
What goals do I
want to set for my life?
00:21:00.96\00:21:02.79
What do I want to become?
00:21:02.82\00:21:04.23
Or, from a
spiritual perspective,
00:21:04.26\00:21:06.63
what does God want me to
be, and how do I get there?
00:21:06.66\00:21:09.83
So it releases me from the past
00:21:09.86\00:21:12.00
to give me an open playing
field for where my life can go.
00:21:12.03\00:21:14.64
>>John: Let me jump in on that.
00:21:14.67\00:21:15.87
That's reality, there are
people who aren't realizing
00:21:15.90\00:21:17.81
what they should be
realizing in their life because,
00:21:17.84\00:21:19.81
because of unforgiveness?
00:21:19.84\00:21:20.78
>>Dick: Yes. Yes.
00:21:20.81\00:21:21.88
They're trapped.
00:21:21.91\00:21:23.24
And when you live in the
past, by repeating that story
00:21:23.28\00:21:26.21
and story and
story, over and over again,
00:21:26.25\00:21:28.62
then your life repeats itself.
00:21:28.65\00:21:30.75
So a year from now I can be
in the same place I am today
00:21:30.79\00:21:33.62
because I haven't
broken that chain,
00:21:33.66\00:21:35.52
I haven't released myself.
00:21:35.56\00:21:37.33
And forgiveness is
the way to freedom.
00:21:37.36\00:21:40.33
It is the way to peace.
00:21:40.36\00:21:41.76
>>John: What would you say
to somebody watching us today,
00:21:41.80\00:21:44.10
and they're saying, yeah,
00:21:44.13\00:21:45.30
but I'm dealing with like
a really, really big thing.
00:21:45.33\00:21:48.90
This isn't you
backing into my car.
00:21:48.94\00:21:51.07
This is my child, uh,
00:21:51.11\00:21:53.81
is disabled because
of someone's negligence,
00:21:53.84\00:21:58.11
or someone, whatever.
00:21:58.15\00:22:00.18
This is big stuff.
00:22:00.22\00:22:01.95
What would you
say to that person
00:22:01.98\00:22:03.22
struggling with a forgiveness
issue on a subject like that?
00:22:03.25\00:22:06.49
>>Dick: Well, I can
share from my own experience,
00:22:06.52\00:22:09.06
having, um, well, in fact,
00:22:09.09\00:22:12.46
I went to work one day
and my boss called me in,
00:22:12.49\00:22:15.76
and I thought,
what's this about?
00:22:15.80\00:22:17.73
And I must admit, I had
that little adolescent feeling,
00:22:17.77\00:22:21.04
you know, when the
principal calls you,
00:22:21.07\00:22:22.37
I must have
done something wrong.
00:22:22.40\00:22:23.71
>>John: I'm familiar with that.
00:22:23.74\00:22:24.41
>>Dick: Yes.
00:22:24.44\00:22:25.47
But I didn't know what
I could have done wrong,
00:22:25.51\00:22:27.81
and so I went in, and my
boss didn't look me in the eye,
00:22:27.84\00:22:30.65
and had a sheet
of paper on the desk,
00:22:30.68\00:22:32.48
and read to me a script
that went something like this:
00:22:32.51\00:22:36.69
As a result of the reengineering
of this organization,
00:22:36.72\00:22:39.89
we have
eliminated some positions,
00:22:39.92\00:22:42.09
and your position is no
longer a part of this company.
00:22:42.12\00:22:44.73
You will pick up
your final paycheck today.
00:22:44.76\00:22:47.60
Thank you for your service.
00:22:47.60\00:22:49.06
Good day.
00:22:49.10\00:22:50.77
And that was it.
00:22:50.80\00:22:52.57
Well, I walked out
of there devastated.
00:22:52.60\00:22:55.27
My world was turned upside down.
00:22:55.30\00:22:57.57
Now, I know there
are different events
00:22:57.61\00:22:59.07
that turn different
people's worlds upside down.
00:22:59.11\00:23:01.34
>>John: Sure.
00:23:01.38\00:23:02.54
>>Dick: And I know that one
of the blessings of life is,
00:23:02.58\00:23:05.21
no matter how much you suffer,
00:23:05.25\00:23:06.45
you can always find
someone suffering more than you
00:23:06.48\00:23:09.18
and be thankful
that by the grace of God.
00:23:09.22\00:23:11.92
But for me, that
turned my world upside down.
00:23:11.95\00:23:15.02
I, my life and my
work were so intertwined;
00:23:15.06\00:23:17.79
I loved my work,
00:23:17.83\00:23:19.13
and now I couldn't come
back to work the next day.
00:23:19.16\00:23:22.00
So I remember
going home that evening
00:23:22.03\00:23:23.40
and having to tell my wife, um,
00:23:23.43\00:23:25.63
who had just quit her
job to start her schooling,
00:23:25.67\00:23:29.10
and my daughter who was
just going away to college,
00:23:29.14\00:23:31.67
that our world had changed.
00:23:31.71\00:23:34.48
What was devastating
about that is how it gripped me.
00:23:34.51\00:23:37.75
You know, you'd
expect that in a week or so
00:23:37.78\00:23:39.38
I'd start applying
for jobs and just move on.
00:23:39.41\00:23:42.05
>>John: Um-hmm.
00:23:42.08\00:23:43.12
>>Dick: But I
couldn't move on; I was frozen.
00:23:43.15\00:23:44.75
I was angry.
00:23:44.79\00:23:45.99
I was bitter.
00:23:46.02\00:23:47.16
I felt betrayed.
00:23:47.19\00:23:48.29
These were not only my
bosses; they were my friends.
00:23:48.32\00:23:51.16
And they just threw me away.
00:23:51.19\00:23:53.23
And, and I
couldn't get past that.
00:23:53.26\00:23:55.83
My health began to suffer;
my blood pressure went up;
00:23:55.86\00:23:58.40
I was putting on
weight; I wasn't exercising;
00:23:58.43\00:24:00.97
I wasn't eating properly.
00:24:01.00\00:24:02.74
My mood had changed.
00:24:02.77\00:24:04.07
I was always a very
optimistic, cheerful person,
00:24:04.11\00:24:06.74
and now I was
withdrawn and bitter
00:24:06.78\00:24:08.34
and didn't want
to talk to people.
00:24:08.38\00:24:10.28
My spiritual nature had changed.
00:24:10.31\00:24:12.85
I struggled to go to church
00:24:12.88\00:24:14.38
because I didn't
know how to face people.
00:24:14.42\00:24:16.18
I was a failure,
00:24:16.22\00:24:17.49
and how could I preach
the Gospel when I was failing?
00:24:17.52\00:24:20.66
And so my whole
world spiraled down.
00:24:20.69\00:24:25.19
And I had people tell
me, Dick, get over it.
00:24:25.23\00:24:28.26
Move beyond.
00:24:28.30\00:24:30.17
I didn't know what to do.
00:24:30.20\00:24:32.87
I was experiencing anger
and the dark side of anger,
00:24:32.90\00:24:36.57
which was depression.
00:24:36.60\00:24:37.97
And I was, I was out of control,
00:24:38.01\00:24:41.31
until finally a friend
of mine came to me and said,
00:24:41.34\00:24:44.71
“Have you tried forgiveness?”
00:24:44.75\00:24:46.72
And I thought, I went to
seminary; I studied forgiveness.
00:24:46.75\00:24:50.95
Why didn't I think of that?
00:24:50.99\00:24:53.09
But you know,
that changed my life,
00:24:53.12\00:24:55.92
and today I'm
doing a job I love,
00:24:55.96\00:24:58.73
my family is together,
00:24:58.76\00:25:00.96
I have a life that I
didn't think I could live,
00:25:01.00\00:25:04.03
because forgiveness released
me from that bitterness,
00:25:04.07\00:25:08.60
and so I could
find a better life.
00:25:08.64\00:25:10.67
>>John: This
subject of forgiveness,
00:25:10.71\00:25:12.47
it's, it's central
to the Gospel, isn't it?
00:25:12.51\00:25:14.74
>>Dick: It is
absolutely central.
00:25:14.78\00:25:16.38
It is Genesis to Revelation.
00:25:16.41\00:25:19.05
It is what changes our lives.
00:25:19.08\00:25:21.42
It is the gift that
God has given to us,
00:25:21.45\00:25:24.59
to forgive one another and
to receive God's forgiveness.
00:25:24.62\00:25:29.96
>>John: Dick, in South
Africa a number of years ago,
00:25:29.99\00:25:31.69
there was this remarkable Truth
and Reconciliation Commission
00:25:31.73\00:25:35.93
to help South
Africa get from apartheid
00:25:35.96\00:25:39.53
to the post- apartheid era, um,
in a somewhat healthy fashion.
00:25:39.57\00:25:44.54
And, uh, South African
President Nelson Mandela
00:25:44.57\00:25:47.11
had some remarkable
things to say about forgiveness.
00:25:47.14\00:25:49.78
>>Dick: Yeah, we've been
talking about forgiveness
00:25:49.81\00:25:51.68
at an individual level,
00:25:51.71\00:25:52.81
but here we have it
at a national level.
00:25:52.85\00:25:55.75
You see, Nelson Mandela
knew that over the years
00:25:55.78\00:25:58.92
all the
suppression that took place,
00:25:58.95\00:26:01.36
if that was
released all at once,
00:26:01.39\00:26:03.02
all of that anger
and hurt and bitterness
00:26:03.06\00:26:05.43
would come crashing into
the streets with looting and,
00:26:05.46\00:26:08.30
and killing even.
00:26:08.33\00:26:10.03
And so he knew
that if this transition
00:26:10.07\00:26:12.50
was to make the
government stronger,
00:26:12.53\00:26:14.70
that forgiveness
would be necessary
00:26:14.74\00:26:16.34
to deal with all of
that hurt and anger.
00:26:16.37\00:26:19.24
In fact, his close
friend, Bishop Desmond Tutu,
00:26:19.27\00:26:22.18
said this: “Without
forgiveness there is no future.”
00:26:22.21\00:26:26.28
>>John: If that was
true for South Africa,
00:26:26.31\00:26:29.85
that's certainly
true for me and you,
00:26:29.88\00:26:31.19
anybody watching today.
00:26:31.22\00:26:32.15
>>Dick: Absolutely.
00:26:32.19\00:26:33.02
>>John: Without
forgiveness there's,
00:26:33.05\00:26:34.32
there's really, there's
really no future, is there?
00:26:34.36\00:26:35.79
>>Dick: There is no future;
there's only reliving the past.
00:26:35.82\00:26:38.49
>>John: I just
can't thank you enough,
00:26:38.53\00:26:40.20
Dick, for taking the
time to join me today.
00:26:40.23\00:26:42.70
And I, I know that I
know that I know many,
00:26:42.73\00:26:45.50
many people watching today
00:26:45.53\00:26:48.30
are going to have
their lives transformed
00:26:48.34\00:26:51.41
because they've taken
what you've put together,
00:26:51.44\00:26:53.74
what the Lord led you to,
00:26:53.78\00:26:54.81
they're going to
apply it in their own lives,
00:26:54.84\00:26:56.61
and they're gonna be free
and forgiving and forgiven.
00:26:56.64\00:27:00.52
>>Dick: It'll change your life.
00:27:00.55\00:27:01.98
Forgiveness is the one
thing that changes everything.
00:27:02.02\00:27:05.09
>>John: Amen.
00:27:05.12\00:27:05.95
Let's pray
together, can we do that?
00:27:05.99\00:27:06.69
>>Dick: Let's do that.
00:27:06.72\00:27:08.42
>>John: Father in Heaven,
00:27:08.46\00:27:09.56
I thank You so much that
You are a God who forgives.
00:27:09.59\00:27:13.46
We thank You the Bible tells us,
00:27:13.50\00:27:15.03
assures us,
00:27:15.06\00:27:16.26
that we can come to You with
all of our mess and baggage and,
00:27:16.30\00:27:19.43
and all the stuff,
00:27:19.47\00:27:21.80
and know that You'll forgive us
00:27:21.84\00:27:23.27
and You'll forgive us freely.
00:27:23.30\00:27:24.47
I pray, help us to
be forgiving people
00:27:24.51\00:27:28.78
and to experience the blessings
00:27:28.81\00:27:30.98
that flow when forgiveness
takes place in our lives.
00:27:31.01\00:27:35.85
I thank You,
Lord, for this time,
00:27:35.88\00:27:37.92
knowing that You will
bless greatly as a result of it.
00:27:37.95\00:27:40.42
And we pray
together in Jesus' name,
00:27:40.46\00:27:42.82
Amen.
00:27:42.86\00:27:43.46
>>Dick: Amen.
00:27:43.49\00:27:45.46
¤[Music]¤
00:27:45.49\00:27:55.50
¤[Music]¤
00:27:55.50\00:28:11.02
>>John: There are hundreds,
00:28:11.99\00:28:12.89
even thousands of
promises in the Bible,
00:28:12.92\00:28:15.69
all made by God to be a blessing
and an encouragement for you.
00:28:15.72\00:28:20.00
Receive today's free offer.
00:28:20.03\00:28:21.70
It's “Promises of Peace.”
00:28:21.73\00:28:24.03
Be blessed by
the promises of God.
00:28:24.07\00:28:26.74
To receive “Promises of Peace,”
00:28:26.77\00:28:28.14
call us at 800-253-3000
00:28:28.17\00:28:31.41
or visit us
online at iiwoffer.com,
00:28:31.44\00:28:36.04
and receive our free
offer, “Promises of Peace.”
00:28:36.08\00:28:41.45
>>John: Thank you for
remembering that It Is Written
00:28:42.25\00:28:44.19
exists because of the kindness
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00:28:44.22\00:28:47.66
To support this international
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00:28:47.69\00:28:50.89
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00:28:50.93\00:28:55.10
You can send your
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00:28:58.10\00:29:02.10
Thank you for your prayers
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00:29:02.14\00:29:04.87
Our number
again is 800-253-3000.
00:29:04.91\00:29:09.01
Or you can visit us
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00:29:09.04\00:29:12.21
>>John: Friend, until next time,
I'd like you to remember this.
00:29:13.48\00:29:15.72
The Bible says,
00:29:15.75\00:29:17.25
“It is written,
00:29:17.29\00:29:18.85
man shall not
live by bread alone,
00:29:18.89\00:29:20.49
but by every word that
proceeds from the mouth of God.”
00:29:20.52\00:29:23.46
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00:29:23.49\00:29:38.47