[Theme Music] It has
stood the test of time,
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God's book, the Bible.
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Still relevant in
today's complex world.
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It Is Written ...
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sharing hope around the globe.
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Thanks for joining me today.
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This is It Is Written.
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I'm John Bradshaw.
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If you read very far at
all into the Bible you come
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across something very
interesting, something which
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today, throughout Christianity,
generates a fair amount
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of conversation.
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You'll read
about the Old Covenant
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and the New Covenant.
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What in the world
were these two covenants
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or are these two covenants?
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How can they be understood
best today and what role,
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if any, do they
play in our lives.
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My very special guest is a
man who has spent more than
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four decades in
Christian ministry as a pastor,
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as a teacher, as
a published author.
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We are going to
discuss the covenants today.
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Pastor Skip McCarty,
thanks for joining me today.
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SM Thank you, John.
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JB I'm grateful you have
taken your time and we are
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going to use it
as well as we can.
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The old and the New Covenants.
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Let's talk about
the New Covenant first.
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I'd like for you to
define for us what biblically
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a covenant is and then
what the New Covenant is.
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SM Great place to start.
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Covenant is something
we don4t talk much about.
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We don4t use that
language very much today.
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Anybody who has a
mortgage is in a covenant.
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They are in a
contractual relationship.
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Even if someone has a credit
card they are in a covenant,
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a contractual relationship.
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We are involved in covenants
even though we don4t talk
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about covenants.
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Now when you come to
the Bible, the old and New
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Covenants, those terms start
showing up, particularly in
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the New Testament.
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The New Covenant, it defined
very clearly by God himself.
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What4s interesting is
that in much of the literature
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written on the covenants
and on the New Covenant
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specifically, the
definitions are all over the map
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as to what the New Covenant is.
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JB Why is that?
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Can't we just go to
"the" definition that we find
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in the Bible or are there
good reasons for these very view
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points?
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SM The Bible is very clear
as to what the New Covenant is.
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It is very clear.
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In Jeremiah 31 and in Hebrews 8,
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God says "This is the
New Covenant I will make
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with the House of
Israel and the House of Judah.
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The only place where
the New Covenant is defined,
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Jeremiah 31, Hebrews
8 and Hebrew 8 quotes
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Jeremiah 31.
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JB Well let's read
that together, Hebrews 8.
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SM And the definition
itself begins in verse 10.
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JB For this is the
covenant that I will make
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with the house of Israel
after those days, says the Lord.
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I will put my laws in their
mind and write them on their
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hearts and I will
be their God and they
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shall be my people.
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None of them shall
teach his neighbor and none
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his brother,
saying "Know the Lord".
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For all shall know me,
from the least of them to
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the greatest of them, for
I will be merciful to their
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unrighteousness and their
sins and their lawless deeds
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I will remember no more.
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There's the New Covenant
defined in the New Testament.
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SM And in the Old Testament,
because he is just quoting
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the Old Testament here.
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JB You said the New
Covenant is defined in Hebrews
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and Jeremiah.
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Now hold on a minute.
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Jeremiah is the Old Testament.
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What's the New Covenant
being explained way back
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there in the Book of Jeremiah.
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It wasn't even the book of
Malachi, which is almost over
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in New Testament
times but way on back to one
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of the major prophets.
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Please explain.
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SM Because God had made
numerous covenants with his
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people before that, the last
one, the last major one being
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the covenant at Sinai
and then, because they broke
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his covenant, as part of
the covenant stipulations,
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they went into exile.
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They continued to
break his covenants after all
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his appeals to them.
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So they go into exile.
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So they have been in
exile now for 70 years and they
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are wondering ... well,
what does that mean now?
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Are we still in the
covenantal relationship
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with God?
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Are we not in a covenant
relationship with God anymore?
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And God says, I'm making a
new covenant with you and so
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he says here is the
covenant I am making with you.
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And then he identifies that
as we've just read here that
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could not be clearer, John.
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It couldn't be clearer
than what you have just read.
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God says, here
is the New Covenant
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I am making with you and
then he explicitly states
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what that covenant is.
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Four promises.
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JB Now we just read it.
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Can you break it down and
put it in laymen's terms for us.
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SMFour promises,
very clearly from God.
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I am going to write
my law in your heart.
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JB One SMI'll be your
God, you'll be my people.
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JBTwo SMThe time is going
to come when you are not going
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to need to teach
anybody about me anymore.
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Everybody is going to know me.
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JB Three SM I'll
forgive your sins.
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That's it.
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That's the New Covenant.
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And when you look at it
carefully, that's the gospel,
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the whole gospel
is included there.
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I'll write my law
in your hearts ...
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that's sanctification.
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I'll be your God,
you'll be my people ...
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that's reconciliation.
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Everyone is going to
know me ... that's revelation.
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And in fact, that's the
mission that was given to
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the church and given to Israel
to teach people about God.
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And finally justification,
I'll forgive your sins.
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The whole gospel is
there, in the New Covenant.
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JB So the New Covenant
is found here in Hebrews 8.
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It's found back in Jeremiah 31.
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SM Right.
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JB What's the big deal
about the New Covenant?
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Why did we need it?
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Why did God have to
come along and say, alright,
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here it is.
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Here is the contractual
agreement that we are going
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to have?
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SM Okay.
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This covenant here is
not a contractual agreement
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in the same sense
of like a mortgage
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or a credit card.
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And like when you buy a
car, you're negotiating.
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You want to get the
least investment that you have
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to make for the most
benefit you get back in return.
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This is more like a
will and in fact, the Greeks
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had two different words
for these kind of covenants.
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Suntheke was a negotiated
covenant, like a mortgage
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and a car loan.
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But Diathéké was a
will and that's the term
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that's used here.
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That's a term that is
used consistently throught
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for God's covenants with us.
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So the big deal is God
is saying in order for you
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to be saved you need
what I can do for you.
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JB So this is a non negotiable.
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This is an essential part
of our salvation experience.
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SM Absolutely.
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For any human being who
has ever lived, God must write
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his law in their hearts.
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God must forgive them.
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They must be reconciled
to God again and they must
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participate in his
mission here on this earth.
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JB I am going to ask you a
question then I think we are
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going to have to back off
and get some explanation here
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because you have mentioned
this two or three times
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and God mentioned it right here.
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This is the covenant that
I will make with the House
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of Israel after
those days, says the Lord.
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I will put my laws in
their mind and write them
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on their hearts.
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Now I am going to ask
you for a one word answer.
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SM Okay JB God writing his laws
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in people's hearts.
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That's essential.
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Yes, or no?
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SM Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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JB Okay.
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What laws?
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SM The law that is
given the most prominence
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in the Old Testament
is the Ten Commandments.
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The only place in the
Bible where God actually writes
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himself and he spoke
audibly to the people.
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It's very clear
from the Old Testament.
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So they stand out and in
fact, most theologians would
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acknowledge that the Ten
Commandments were written on
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the heart of Adam and
Eve at their creation.
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The principles of the
Ten Commandments, the moral
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principles there are
timeless, they are eternal.
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They are cross-generational
and that is the law that God
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is writing here in
their hearts because in fact,
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just the very next chapter
of Hebrews in Chapter 9:4,
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God talks about the temple
furniture of the Old Testament
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and he refers to the
Ark of the Covenant that had
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the tables of the covenant
which was the Ten Commandments
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inside of it.
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He is linking here his
law to the Ten Commandments.
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JB Now we have got some
people pretty excited because
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you have said in the New
Covenant God wants to put his
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10 Commandment law in
people's heart but many
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people believe and are
being taught very genuinely
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that Ten
Commandments is Old Covenant.
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New Covenant is something else.
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Let's pick that up in a moment.
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We'll be back with
more, straight ahead.
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In Matthew 4:4, the word of
God says, It is written, man
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shall not live by bread alone
but by every word that proceeds
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from the mouth of God.
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Every Word is a one-minute
Bible-based daily devotional
00:08:14.06\00:08:17.83
presented by Pastor
John Bradshaw and designed
00:08:17.83\00:08:21.03
especially for
busy people like you.
00:08:21.03\00:08:23.30
Look for Every Word on
selected networks or watch
00:08:23.30\00:08:26.30
it on-line everyday on
our website, itiswritten.com.
00:08:26.30\00:08:31.00
Receive a daily spiritual boost.
00:08:31.00\00:08:32.90
Watch Every Word.
00:08:32.90\00:08:34.43
You'll be glad you did.
00:08:34.43\00:08:35.63
Here's a sample.
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[music]
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In 2 Thessalonians 2:10,
the Apostle Paul wrote about
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a certain group of
people who he said received
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not the love of the
truth that they might be saved.
00:08:53.46\00:08:56.53
Based on what Paul is saying,
only those who love the truth
00:08:56.53\00:09:00.40
will receive eternal life.
00:09:00.40\00:09:02.03
He didn't say salvation is
for those that know the truth
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only but those
who love the truth.
00:09:05.36\00:09:07.96
I'm sure churches are
crowded with people who know
00:09:07.96\00:09:10.33
the truth but it's only
when Jesus touches your heart
00:09:10.33\00:09:13.13
that that truth starts
to make any real difference.
00:09:13.13\00:09:16.06
While you study the
Bible and do whatever else you
00:09:16.06\00:09:18.16
do for spiritual
growth, keep in mind salvation
00:09:18.16\00:09:21.36
isn't only about theory.
00:09:21.36\00:09:22.56
You can be right
and still be wrong.
00:09:22.56\00:09:25.33
It is when you love
the Savior who you find
00:09:25.33\00:09:28.06
in the midst of the
truth of God's word that things
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really come alive.
00:09:30.73\00:09:32.43
I'm John Bradshaw
for It is Written.
00:09:32.43\00:09:34.76
Let's live today by every word.
00:09:34.76\00:09:39.20
This is It Is Written.
00:09:39.20\00:09:40.20
I'm John Bradshaw.
00:09:40.20\00:09:41.20
My guest today is
Skip McCarty and today our
00:09:41.20\00:09:44.90
discussion is
centering on the question
00:09:44.90\00:09:47.00
of the covenants, the
Old Covenant and the New
00:09:47.00\00:09:50.03
Covenant and just a few
moments ago we discovered
00:09:50.03\00:09:52.46
that the Bible plainly
says that in the New Covenant
00:09:52.46\00:09:55.23
God would write his laws
in peoples' hearts and minds.
00:09:55.23\00:09:59.96
Now Skip, that alarms
some people because some people
00:09:59.96\00:10:03.46
equate Ten Commandments
with the Old Covenant
00:10:03.46\00:10:07.43
and the New Covenant
as being without the Ten
00:10:07.43\00:10:11.40
Commandments.
00:10:11.40\00:10:12.40
Now let's explain, if we
can, why the Ten Commandments
00:10:12.40\00:10:17.56
are a valid part of the New
Covenant when so many people
00:10:17.56\00:10:22.30
thought they went out of
style when the Old Covenant
00:10:22.30\00:10:24.63
went out of style.
00:10:24.63\00:10:25.63
SM God himself said the first
promise of the New Covenant
00:10:25.63\00:10:29.86
is I will write
my law in your heart.
00:10:29.86\00:10:31.80
Now Jeremiah was the
first one to give us that.
00:10:31.80\00:10:33.96
In Jeremiah's time
everyone thought of the law
00:10:33.96\00:10:36.70
as primarily the
Ten Commandments.
00:10:36.70\00:10:39.56
What God had written with his
own finger and spoke and what
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was inside of the
Ark of the Covenant.
00:10:42.43\00:10:44.60
The only part of the law
that was actually inside the Ark
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of the Covenant was so
treasured it was inside
00:10:47.60\00:10:49.60
the Ark of the Covenant.
00:10:49.60\00:10:50.60
And the Ten Commandments,
in fact, are identified
00:10:50.60\00:10:52.60
as the Covenant of Sinai.
00:10:52.60\00:10:54.30
Now there was
more to it than that.
00:10:54.30\00:10:56.30
In Deuteronomy 4:13,
it identifies the Ten
00:10:56.30\00:10:58.80
Commandments as the covenant.
00:10:58.80\00:11:01.00
JB So, therefore, because
people understand that the Sinai
00:11:01.00\00:11:04.30
Covenant perhaps isn't in
effect anymore, maybe the Ten
00:11:04.30\00:11:07.30
Commandments are gone.
00:11:07.30\00:11:08.30
You can see this could
be confusing in some minds.
00:11:08.30\00:11:10.50
SM I can.
00:11:10.50\00:11:11.50
Here's one fascinating thing
about the study of the covenants
00:11:11.50\00:11:15.00
in the Bible.
00:11:15.00\00:11:16.00
Once you identify
what the New Covenant is,
00:11:16.00\00:11:18.50
those four premises: I
write my law in your hearts;
00:11:18.50\00:11:21.00
be your God you be my
people; everyone is going to
00:11:21.00\00:11:24.40
eventually know
me (that's when Jesus
00:11:24.40\00:11:26.40
comes again).
00:11:26.40\00:11:27.40
The New Covenant
eschatological is looking
00:11:27.40\00:11:29.40
forward to the
future, ultimately,
00:11:29.40\00:11:31.40
for its final fulfillment;
I'll forgive your sins.
00:11:31.40\00:11:33.40
These promises show up big
time in the Sinai covenant.
00:11:33.40\00:11:37.16
In fact, one of the major
results of this study is that
00:11:37.16\00:11:40.60
these four New
Covenant promises are saturated.
00:11:40.60\00:11:43.96
The Old Testament
is saturated with them.
00:11:43.96\00:11:46.40
They show up individually
but they show up in clusters
00:11:46.40\00:11:48.90
in major places every covenant
God made with his people
00:11:48.90\00:11:52.76
in the Old Testament, it
has these promises imbedded
00:11:52.76\00:11:55.00
in them.
00:11:55.00\00:11:56.00
It has the gospel.
00:11:56.00\00:11:57.00
It has the four promises in it.
00:11:57.00\00:11:59.00
It is a gospel-bearing
covenant just like
00:11:59.00\00:12:01.06
the other covenants.
00:12:01.06\00:12:02.06
JB Very interesting.
00:12:02.06\00:12:03.06
The New Covenant talks
about what God is going
00:12:03.06\00:12:06.13
to do in a person's
life so it seems here that
00:12:06.13\00:12:11.06
the New Covenant emphasizes
surrender to God and allowing
00:12:11.06\00:12:15.70
God to go ahead and
be God in our lives.
00:12:15.70\00:12:18.36
SM Yes.
00:12:18.36\00:12:19.36
JB The New Covenant doesn't
emphasize "OK, here's what
00:12:19.36\00:12:22.00
you have got to do
in order to be saved."
00:12:22.00\00:12:24.00
SM That's right.
00:12:24.00\00:12:25.00
JB Did the Old
Covenant emphasize that?
00:12:25.00\00:12:27.53
Because I have heard it
explained that under the Old
00:12:27.53\00:12:29.66
Covenant, "do this and you
live, don't do this and you
00:12:29.66\00:12:33.93
die," in other words,
and a lot of people right now
00:12:33.93\00:12:36.96
are going to agree with me,
they've heard it said the Old
00:12:36.96\00:12:41.00
Covenant obey the commandments
of God and be saved,
00:12:41.00\00:12:44.93
New Covenant, trust
in Jesus and be saved.
00:12:44.93\00:12:48.10
Perhaps we should talk
about what the Old Covenant was.
00:12:48.10\00:12:50.10
SM Just as the New Testament
is trust in Jesus to be saved,
00:12:50.10\00:12:53.80
the Old Testament was
trust in Yaweh to be saved.
00:12:53.80\00:12:55.93
Trust in God to be saved.
00:12:55.93\00:12:57.60
JB Was there ever a
time when people were saved
00:12:57.60\00:13:00.13
by their works?
00:13:00.13\00:13:01.13
SM Never.
00:13:01.13\00:13:02.13
Impossible to be saved by works.
00:13:02.13\00:13:04.23
From Adam's
children until this very day
00:13:04.23\00:13:07.06
and the Bible never
teaches that anyone was saved
00:13:07.06\00:13:09.93
by works.
00:13:09.93\00:13:10.93
JB So under the Old Covenant
it wasn't, well if you obey
00:13:10.93\00:13:13.03
these things,
then you can be saved.
00:13:13.03\00:13:15.46
SM It was salvation
by grace through faith.
00:13:15.46\00:13:17.66
JB How did that work
in Old Covenant times?
00:13:17.66\00:13:19.66
By grace through faith?
00:13:19.66\00:13:20.66
Because many people
today don't associate grace
00:13:20.66\00:13:22.73
with the Old Covenant.
00:13:22.73\00:13:23.73
It's like that was the covenant
of works and the New Covenant
00:13:23.73\00:13:26.73
is a covenant of grace.
00:13:26.73\00:13:27.73
That is not true?
00:13:27.73\00:13:28.73
SM Where grace first shows
up actually in the Old Testament
00:13:28.73\00:13:32.83
is where Noah finds grace in
the eyes of the Lord and just
00:13:32.83\00:13:36.53
after the giving of the
Ten Commandments, Moses says
00:13:36.53\00:13:39.06
"Lord, show me your
glory" and God says "I am a God
00:13:39.06\00:13:42.80
whose is gracious and
compassionate." He actually
00:13:42.80\00:13:45.80
reveals himself as
a God of grace there.
00:13:45.80\00:13:47.80
He reveals himself for
the first time in the Bible
00:13:47.80\00:13:49.80
as a forgiving
God, it was at Sinai.
00:13:49.80\00:13:52.00
Sinai is a powerful grace
covenant all the way through.
00:13:52.00\00:13:55.83
It emphasizes love
because the formula in the Sinai
00:13:55.83\00:13:59.83
covenant was "love God
and keep his commandments".
00:13:59.83\00:14:03.10
We can't love him unless
he circumcises our hearts
00:14:03.10\00:14:05.46
and God acknowledges
that and says "I will do this
00:14:05.46\00:14:07.56
for you." He
says in Deuteronomy 30
00:14:07.56\00:14:09.66
"I put my commandments,
my word in your heart"
00:14:09.66\00:14:13.66
and the Psalmist said
"Your word is in my heart."
00:14:13.66\00:14:16.73
It was always God's
initiative all the way through
00:14:16.73\00:14:19.86
by grace through faith.
00:14:19.86\00:14:21.00
JB Salvation has
always been a matter of grace.
00:14:21.00\00:14:23.16
SM Always.
00:14:23.16\00:14:24.16
JB I would believe that
and I teach that but I am
00:14:24.16\00:14:26.16
fascinated to hear you
emphasize this that all the way
00:14:26.16\00:14:28.16
back, Old
Covenant was not works;
00:14:28.16\00:14:30.10
New Covenant grace.
00:14:30.10\00:14:31.10
That's a misunderstanding.
00:14:31.10\00:14:32.10
SM Oh, terribly so.
00:14:32.10\00:14:33.10
JB Okay.
00:14:33.10\00:14:34.10
Explain to me.
00:14:34.10\00:14:35.10
Let's drill down on
this just a little bit.
00:14:35.10\00:14:37.10
Explain how the Old Covenant
was a covenant of grace.
00:14:37.10\00:14:39.10
This is a
revelation for lots of people.
00:14:39.10\00:14:41.10
How was the Old
Covenant a Covenant of Grace.
00:14:41.10\00:14:43.10
I know you've touched
on it, but let's zero-in.
00:14:43.10\00:14:45.10
SM Let's start back with Adam.
00:14:45.10\00:14:47.10
When Adam fell, the
first promise given was what?
00:14:47.10\00:14:51.63
JB I will put enmity
between you and so forth.
00:14:51.63\00:14:54.83
SM Exactly.
00:14:54.83\00:14:55.83
Spoken to the serpent but
was meant for Adam and Eve.
00:14:55.83\00:14:57.90
I'll put enmity between you
and the woman and between her
00:14:57.90\00:15:00.83
seed and your seed.
00:15:00.83\00:15:02.06
He, the seed of the
woman, will crush the head
00:15:02.06\00:15:04.50
of the serpent.
00:15:04.50\00:15:05.53
The serpent will
bruise the heal of the seed.
00:15:05.53\00:15:07.80
Theologians refer to
that as the Protoevangelion,
00:15:07.80\00:15:11.43
which simply means the first
pronouncement of the gospel.
00:15:11.43\00:15:13.86
So the gospel shows up
there in a little kernel,
00:15:13.86\00:15:16.30
right there.
00:15:16.30\00:15:17.30
IT has to be that way,
because once Adam fell,
00:15:17.30\00:15:20.76
he was giving to his children
sinful natures and we could
00:15:20.76\00:15:23.96
not pull
ourselves out of the pit.
00:15:23.96\00:15:26.50
God has to take the
initiative and he announces
00:15:26.50\00:15:28.76
that right to Adam.
00:15:28.76\00:15:29.76
He actually announces it
to the serpent but it was
00:15:29.76\00:15:31.70
for Adams's sake
and for humanity's sake.
00:15:31.70\00:15:33.73
Every covenant God gave
his people from then on just
00:15:33.73\00:15:36.53
amplified it.
00:15:36.53\00:15:37.53
It showed a little bit
more of the gracious character
00:15:37.53\00:15:40.03
of God and the terms of
the covenant and so forth,
00:15:40.03\00:15:42.26
all the way through.
00:15:42.26\00:15:43.46
So when you come to the New
Testament and you have these
00:15:43.46\00:15:45.63
statements like we've saved
by grace through faith and so
00:15:45.63\00:15:49.46
forth, in Paul's writings,
he simply is continuing
00:15:49.46\00:15:52.00
to progressively reveal what
has always been true all the way
00:15:52.00\00:15:55.00
along.
00:15:55.00\00:15:56.00
Every covenant God
made with his people, John,
00:15:56.00\00:15:58.00
incorporated the truths
revealed in the previous
00:15:58.00\00:16:00.06
covenants and added a little
bit more information, added
00:16:00.06\00:16:03.30
a little bit more of
our understanding to it all
00:16:03.30\00:16:05.43
the way through
to the New Testament.
00:16:05.43\00:16:07.43
When Jesus said you
must be born again to enter
00:16:07.43\00:16:09.43
the Kingdom of God,
that didn't start when Jesus
00:16:09.43\00:16:12.43
made those words.
00:16:12.43\00:16:13.43
That was true for Abel.
00:16:13.43\00:16:14.43
That was true for every single
believer in the Old Testament
00:16:14.43\00:16:16.43
period.
00:16:16.43\00:16:17.43
They had to be born again.
00:16:17.43\00:16:18.43
Otherwise, they were lost.
00:16:18.43\00:16:19.43
JB How were you born
again back then before Jesus
00:16:19.43\00:16:21.43
had come along?
00:16:21.43\00:16:22.43
SM Well, how could
you be saved if you
00:16:22.43\00:16:24.43
weren't born again?
00:16:24.43\00:16:25.43
We are born with sinful natures.
00:16:25.43\00:16:27.43
When Paul writes about the war
between the flesh and the spirit
00:16:27.43\00:16:30.36
in Romans 8, that was going on
inside of Abel, it was going on
00:16:30.36\00:16:32.36
inside of Cain.
00:16:32.36\00:16:33.36
Every single human being
has had that spiritual war going
00:16:33.36\00:16:36.40
on inside their hearts.
00:16:36.40\00:16:37.40
JB How was that
reconciled back then?
00:16:37.40\00:16:39.40
Toda we recognize
the spiritual war.
00:16:39.40\00:16:41.40
We go to the cross,
we go to God in heaven.
00:16:41.40\00:16:43.70
We accept Jesus as
our Lord and Savior.
00:16:43.70\00:16:46.03
We ask him to change our hearts.
00:16:46.03\00:16:48.03
Jesus hadn't come back
there when Cain and Abel
00:16:48.03\00:16:50.06
and Methusalen,
whoever it might have been.
00:16:50.06\00:16:53.06
So how did that
work practically?
00:16:53.06\00:16:55.06
SM Well right from the
very start they had sacrifices.
00:16:55.06\00:16:57.06
Abel had a lamb sacrificed
that was indicating that some
00:16:57.06\00:17:00.36
innocent sufferer would die
for his sins, that salvation
00:17:00.36\00:17:04.76
would come through that one.
00:17:04.76\00:17:06.33
That becomes clearer then
as you go throughout in the
00:17:06.33\00:17:08.26
Old Testament and into the New
Testament and it just becomes
00:17:08.26\00:17:10.36
clearer and clearer
until finally they find out
00:17:10.36\00:17:11.53
it is Jesus.
00:17:11.53\00:17:12.13
He's the one.
00:17:12.13\00:17:12.66
He's the Lamb of God
that takes away the sin
00:17:12.66\00:17:14.30
of the world.
00:17:14.30\00:17:14.80
So it is by putting their
faith in the provision God had
00:17:14.80\00:17:17.00
made symbolically through
the sacrifices of the Old
00:17:17.00\00:17:19.70
Testament that they were
saved by faith through grace.
00:17:19.70\00:17:23.46
JB Magnificent.
00:17:23.46\00:17:24.10
We've got a lot to talk
about and I think this is going
00:17:24.10\00:17:25.70
to take us a little while.
00:17:25.70\00:17:26.93
Wait right there.
00:17:26.93\00:17:29.46
We'll be back with
more, in just a moment.
00:17:29.46\00:17:31.90
It Is Written is dedicated
to sharing the gospel around
00:17:33.06\00:17:35.43
the world.
00:17:35.43\00:17:36.83
To discover more about
It Is Written, I invite you
00:17:36.83\00:17:39.00
to visit our website,
itiswritten.com, and browse
00:17:39.00\00:17:42.60
the dozens of pages
that describe what we do
00:17:42.60\00:17:44.70
and how we do it.
00:17:44.70\00:17:45.70
Let's get to know
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00:17:45.70\00:17:47.93
Visit our website
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00:17:47.93\00:17:52.16
This is It Is Written.
00:17:52.16\00:17:53.16
Thanks for joining me today.
00:17:53.16\00:17:54.16
My good fortune is to
have with me Dr. Skip McCarty.
00:17:54.16\00:17:58.06
We're discussing the
covenants, the Old Covenant
00:17:58.06\00:18:01.73
and the New Covenant
and Skip, a few moments ago,
00:18:01.73\00:18:04.73
you mentioned a
term very interesting.
00:18:04.73\00:18:07.90
You talked about
progressive revelation.
00:18:07.90\00:18:10.86
You said the covenant was
really revealed in a kernel
00:18:10.86\00:18:13.33
form back in Genesis 3:15.
00:18:13.33\00:18:15.40
I will put enmity between
you and the woman, her seed
00:18:15.40\00:18:18.60
and your seed.
00:18:18.60\00:18:19.60
And you said
that as the Bible went
00:18:19.60\00:18:21.93
on, the covenant was
revealed progressively.
00:18:21.93\00:18:24.66
Would explain please
this progressive revelation.
00:18:24.66\00:18:27.80
SM Let me give
you an illustration.
00:18:27.80\00:18:29.80
When did God
begin to forgive people?
00:18:29.80\00:18:31.80
JB Now there's a good question.
00:18:31.80\00:18:33.80
It seems to me that God
began to forgive people as soon
00:18:33.80\00:18:35.80
as they were sinners.
00:18:35.80\00:18:36.80
As soon as there was
something to forgive.
00:18:36.80\00:18:38.80
SM It would
have to, wouldn't it?
00:18:38.80\00:18:40.80
As soon as his Spirit
was able to draw repentance
00:18:40.80\00:18:42.80
out of their hearts, he
would be a forgiving God.
00:18:42.80\00:18:44.80
But it doesn't mention
that he is a forgiving God
00:18:44.80\00:18:46.80
until the second of
the Ten Commandments.
00:18:46.80\00:18:48.80
Before the second commandment,
the Bible never says God
00:18:48.80\00:18:50.80
loves anybody.
00:18:50.80\00:18:51.80
It first shows up there.
00:18:51.80\00:18:52.80
But then you read back
and say, Oh, well, that's been
00:18:52.80\00:18:55.80
true from the beginning.
00:18:55.80\00:18:56.80
Of course it was
true from the beginning.
00:18:56.80\00:18:58.80
And so when some of the New
Testament language shows up,
00:18:58.80\00:19:00.86
such as new birth and so forth,
that we talked about before,
00:19:00.86\00:19:02.86
it's talking about things
that have always been true
00:19:02.86\00:19:04.86
but God just revealing a
little bit more, give us more
00:19:04.86\00:19:06.86
language, give us more
depth of understanding, of what
00:19:06.86\00:19:08.86
has always been happening.
00:19:08.86\00:19:09.86
The New Covenant
did not start over.
00:19:09.86\00:19:11.86
It incorporated the
truths that had been revealed
00:19:11.86\00:19:14.23
previously and incorporated
God's law, his moral law,
00:19:14.23\00:19:18.26
that was eternal.
00:19:18.26\00:19:19.63
He reiterates what had been
true in the Old Testament too.
00:19:19.63\00:19:22.13
He wants to put
that on our hearts.
00:19:22.13\00:19:24.70
JB Let's talk about the
New Covenant here in the time
00:19:24.70\00:19:27.03
we have left.
00:19:27.03\00:19:28.03
I want to ask you two questions.
00:19:28.03\00:19:30.03
I think they are both
fundamental and important.
00:19:30.03\00:19:31.96
One is how does participating
in the New Covenant actually
00:19:31.96\00:19:36.56
look in my life.
00:19:36.56\00:19:37.56
What is that going to do?
00:19:37.56\00:19:38.56
That's one question.
00:19:38.56\00:19:40.53
And the other question
I really believe we need
00:19:40.53\00:19:42.73
to address is are we promoting
legalism when we say part
00:19:42.73\00:19:50.16
of the New Covenant is
keeping the commandments of God?
00:19:50.16\00:19:53.26
Have we just put people
under a burden that they should
00:19:53.26\00:19:56.26
not be put under.
00:19:56.26\00:19:57.26
So you can take those
in any order you like.
00:19:57.26\00:19:59.90
SM Okay, the New Covenant
lifts whatever burden may
00:19:59.90\00:20:04.23
be there, completely
lifts it off, because in the New
00:20:04.23\00:20:07.83
Covenant, God is not
saying "you must do this."
00:20:07.83\00:20:10.93
God is saying "I
will do this for you."
00:20:10.93\00:20:12.96
JB Do you think that is
a problem that some people
00:20:12.96\00:20:14.96
have, who are
afraid of legalism?
00:20:14.96\00:20:16.96
They say well, if once you
start talking about the Ten
00:20:16.96\00:20:19.10
Commandments, if I've got to
do this, then you are putting
00:20:19.10\00:20:22.40
me under a burden.
00:20:22.40\00:20:23.40
When perhaps what we
really need to do a better job
00:20:23.40\00:20:25.86
of is teaching people that
when it comes to obedience,
00:20:25.86\00:20:29.46
this is really the
work of God in our lives.
00:20:29.46\00:20:31.40
SM It is the work
of God in our lives.
00:20:31.40\00:20:33.40
We can't make God be our God.
00:20:33.40\00:20:34.53
God says "I will be your God.
00:20:34.53\00:20:36.16
You'll be my people."
00:20:36.16\00:20:37.16
We can't make any
of these things happen.
00:20:37.16\00:20:39.20
God says "I will put
my law in your hearts.
00:20:39.20\00:20:41.43
I will do this for you."
00:20:41.43\00:20:42.43
The New Covenant, John, is
God's embrace of a sinner who
00:20:42.43\00:20:46.40
cannot dig himself out
of the hole he is born into.
00:20:46.40\00:20:50.60
Where sin abounds,
grace much more abounds.
00:20:50.60\00:20:52.66
The deeper the
hole, the longer the rope.
00:20:52.66\00:20:54.86
And Jesus himself is on
the end of that rope to grab
00:20:54.86\00:20:58.00
a hold of you and
bring you up out of that.
00:20:58.00\00:21:00.86
This is New Covenant.
00:21:00.86\00:21:02.43
New Covenant is
the grace of God.
00:21:02.43\00:21:04.43
New Covenant is saying
everything you cannot do
00:21:04.43\00:21:06.96
for yourself, which
is everything in terms
00:21:06.96\00:21:08.96
of salvation, I will do for you.
00:21:08.96\00:21:10.96
And what is interesting
about the Ten Commandments --
00:21:10.96\00:21:13.00
the actual Hebrew is not
commandments, it's words.
00:21:13.00\00:21:17.46
That's why scholars talk
about the ten words because
00:21:17.46\00:21:19.56
the Hebrew term davar is word.
00:21:19.56\00:21:23.23
Translators come to that.
00:21:23.23\00:21:24.23
They have to decide,
should we translate that word?
00:21:24.23\00:21:26.63
Do we translate it command?
00:21:26.63\00:21:28.13
Do we translate it promise?
00:21:28.13\00:21:29.56
JB So instead of talking
about the Ten Commandments,
00:21:29.56\00:21:32.36
we could be talking
about the ten promises.
00:21:32.36\00:21:34.36
SM Exactly.
00:21:34.36\00:21:35.36
Once conversion
comes, it's ten promises.
00:21:35.36\00:21:38.20
That's the whole
point of the New Covenant.
00:21:38.20\00:21:40.20
It's God saying I'm
going to write this on your ...
00:21:40.20\00:21:42.20
I promise you'll be
this kind of person.
00:21:42.20\00:21:44.90
It lifts the
burden off of a believer.
00:21:44.90\00:21:47.50
The way we become
New Covenant is to throw
00:21:47.50\00:21:49.50
ourselves wholly upon God
and his grace because there are
00:21:49.50\00:21:53.16
going to be many times in
the best, in the most devout
00:21:53.16\00:21:56.20
spiritual life on this earth,
there is going to be times
00:21:56.20\00:21:58.43
of discouragement,
spiritual discouragement.
00:21:58.43\00:22:00.60
Where we wonder,
"Am I doing right?
00:22:00.60\00:22:03.30
Am I on the right track?
00:22:03.30\00:22:04.30
Am I really sincere in
what I am doing?" God says,
00:22:04.30\00:22:06.33
forget all that.
00:22:06.33\00:22:07.63
Trust me.
00:22:07.63\00:22:08.76
Just keep coming back to me.
00:22:08.76\00:22:10.20
Spend time with my Word.
00:22:10.20\00:22:12.10
Open your heart to me
in prayer and I will do
00:22:12.10\00:22:14.76
everything for you.
00:22:14.76\00:22:15.76
I'll write my
law in your hearts.
00:22:15.76\00:22:17.76
You'll be my people.
00:22:17.76\00:22:18.76
I'll be your God.
00:22:18.76\00:22:19.76
I will forgive you and I am
going to invite you into sharing
00:22:19.76\00:22:23.53
who I am until the
day when we are not going
00:22:23.53\00:22:25.56
to need to do this anymore.
00:22:25.56\00:22:26.56
That is what
the New Covenant is.
00:22:26.56\00:22:28.56
JB Interesting, isn't it,
how over time the covenants
00:22:28.56\00:22:32.13
have been
explained as works and grace,
00:22:32.13\00:22:35.13
or do vs. believe.
00:22:35.13\00:22:37.90
SM Total misunderstanding.
00:22:37.90\00:22:39.50
Total misunderstanding.
00:22:39.50\00:22:41.03
Total misunderstanding.
00:22:41.03\00:22:42.40
The Bible teaches that no where.
00:22:42.40\00:22:45.70
JB How hopeful, then,
isn't it, that when someone
00:22:45.70\00:22:47.70
says what's the New Covenant,
and we go to Hebrews and read
00:22:47.70\00:22:49.70
that passage, this is
the covenant that I will make
00:22:49.70\00:22:52.40
with the House of Israel
after those days, says the Lord,
00:22:52.40\00:22:55.23
I will put my laws in their
mind and I add these words ..
00:22:55.23\00:23:00.10
I will write them on their
hearts and I will their God
00:23:00.10\00:23:04.60
and they shall be my people.
00:23:04.60\00:23:08.00
Isn't this a matter of infinite
possibilities opening up?
00:23:08.00\00:23:11.40
What God wants to do in
the heart and mind of someone
00:23:11.40\00:23:17.90
who comes to him by faith.
00:23:17.90\00:23:19.16
SM Precisely.
00:23:19.16\00:23:20.16
God is saying everything
that is necessary for your
00:23:20.16\00:23:22.16
salvation and for you to have
a fulfilled life on this planet,
00:23:22.16\00:23:25.26
I'm going to do for you.
00:23:25.26\00:23:26.26
JB I will even turn you into
the type of person who loves
00:23:26.26\00:23:29.36
to do the sorts of
things I want you to do.
00:23:29.36\00:23:31.50
SM Precisely.
00:23:31.50\00:23:32.50
JB The Ten Commandments
become ten promises and we
00:23:32.50\00:23:36.03
walk in the footsteps of Jesus.
00:23:36.03\00:23:37.23
SM That is New Covenant.
00:23:37.23\00:23:38.26
JB Skip McCarty.
00:23:38.26\00:23:39.73
Thank you.
00:23:39.73\00:23:40.73
Thank you for
taking the time today.
00:23:40.73\00:23:42.73
I have been
blessed, as have others.
00:23:42.73\00:23:44.73
I appreciate you being here.
00:23:44.73\00:23:45.73
SM Thank you
for the opportunity.
00:23:45.73\00:23:47.73
JB Today I'd like
to offer you a book
00:23:47.73\00:23:50.90
that could change your life.
00:23:50.90\00:23:52.93
It's called Simply Salvation.
00:23:52.93\00:23:55.06
It deals beautifully with
some of the most important
00:23:55.06\00:23:58.00
questions that
could ever be asked.
00:23:58.00\00:24:00.76
How can you
receive everlasting life?
00:24:00.76\00:24:02.76
How can you know that
your sins are forgiven?
00:24:02.76\00:24:05.03
How can you experience
the life that you were created
00:24:05.03\00:24:10.83
to experience.
00:24:10.83\00:24:12.00
I want you to
have Simply Salvation.
00:24:12.00\00:24:16.03
Call 800.253.3000,
that's 800.253.3000.
00:24:16.03\00:24:18.36
Supplies are limited, so you
will want to call right away.
00:24:18.36\00:24:22.00
If you don't get
through right away,
00:24:22.00\00:24:24.60
please do try again.
00:24:24.60\00:24:25.83
Or, you could write
to It Is Written, Box O,
00:24:25.83\00:24:28.70
Thousand Oaks, California
91359 and we will mail a copy to
00:24:28.70\00:24:32.13
your address in North America.
00:24:32.13\00:24:33.73
And I want to ask you something.
00:24:33.73\00:24:36.66
If you are blessed by
this television program, please
00:24:36.66\00:24:39.30
pray for this ministry
and pray about supporting
00:24:39.30\00:24:41.63
It Is Written financially.
00:24:41.63\00:24:42.66
Help It Is Written to
continue to reach the world
00:24:42.66\00:24:46.26
with the message of
hope in Jesus Christ.
00:24:46.26\00:24:48.26
It Is Written
is donor supported.
00:24:48.26\00:24:51.03
Without you and people
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00:24:51.03\00:24:53.26
has called us to do.
00:24:53.26\00:24:54.66
Donate to It Is Written.
00:24:54.66\00:24:55.80
You can call 800.253.3000
or give on-line by visiting
00:24:55.80\00:25:01.20
our website itiswritten.com.
00:25:01.20\00:25:06.36
I've got just a couple
of minutes with our guest
00:25:06.36\00:25:07.86
for today, Skip McCarty.
00:25:07.86\00:25:09.53
Skip, as we look over what
we have talked about, the New
00:25:09.53\00:25:13.00
Covenant experience,
what's the impact of that
00:25:13.00\00:25:15.73
in the life of someone
who is, you know, your average
00:25:15.73\00:25:18.23
administrator or gardener
or bus driver, how does this
00:25:18.23\00:25:21.76
help that person?
00:25:21.76\00:25:22.76
SM First of all, John, I
think it has to say to them
00:25:22.76\00:25:26.70
"you're not just the
gardener, you're not just
00:25:26.70\00:25:29.70
the business executive,
you're not just, whatever,
00:25:29.70\00:25:31.63
a waitress, or whatever.
00:25:31.63\00:25:32.83
You are a child of God."
00:25:32.83\00:25:34.60
Before I was a minister, I
did other odd jobs working my
00:25:34.60\00:25:37.73
way through school,
different kinds of work.
00:25:37.73\00:25:39.73
But when I went to the factory,
I did not just think of myself
00:25:39.73\00:25:41.73
as a just a factory worker.
00:25:41.73\00:25:43.13
I thought of
myself as a child of God.
00:25:43.13\00:25:45.13
There was somebody that day
in the factory that just by me
00:25:45.13\00:25:47.93
doing good work, or maybe
my countenance, or something
00:25:47.93\00:25:50.70
I could say to them,
could make a difference in their
00:25:50.70\00:25:52.70
life for the Kingdom of God.
00:25:52.70\00:25:53.70
That transforms life.
00:25:53.70\00:25:55.16
That is all
part of New Covenant.
00:25:55.16\00:25:57.16
And so God wants to
take the everyday life
00:25:57.16\00:25:59.80
and transform it.
00:25:59.80\00:26:01.06
That's all part of New Covenant.
00:26:01.06\00:26:03.06
That's God's commitment.
00:26:03.06\00:26:04.06
I will do this for you
hear and now, as well provide
00:26:04.06\00:26:06.26
for you in the eternal future.
00:26:06.26\00:26:07.26
JB So the New Covenant
vs. the Old Covenant is not
00:26:07.26\00:26:09.26
a series of or
rules of engagement.
00:26:09.26\00:26:11.93
SM No.
00:26:11.93\00:26:12.93
JB It's an experience
we enter into with God.
00:26:12.93\00:26:15.23
SM It is.
00:26:15.23\00:26:16.23
JB And thank God
for that experience.
00:26:16.23\00:26:18.23
SM Precisely.
00:26:18.23\00:26:19.23
JB I want everybody
to have that experience.
00:26:19.23\00:26:21.23
Let's pray together.
00:26:21.23\00:26:22.23
SM Amen.
00:26:22.23\00:26:23.23
JB Let's pray together
and ask that we can have
00:26:23.23\00:26:25.23
that experience that
God wants us to have.
00:26:25.23\00:26:27.63
Our Father in
heaven, how thankful we are
00:26:27.63\00:26:29.90
that you have made provision
for us to be true Christians,
00:26:29.90\00:26:32.86
connected to you,
rejoicing, healthy, happy
00:26:32.86\00:26:36.83
and holy,
because you have said you
00:26:36.83\00:26:40.03
would be our God.
00:26:40.03\00:26:41.46
You have said
you will accept us.
00:26:41.46\00:26:43.76
You have said you will
write your law in our minds
00:26:43.76\00:26:47.43
and in our hearts.
00:26:47.43\00:26:48.50
You will do everything needed
for us to be saved and to be
00:26:48.50\00:26:53.30
your children eternally.
00:26:53.30\00:26:54.76
Lord, I thank you for
that and I pray that that
00:26:54.76\00:26:56.76
experience would be ours.
00:26:56.76\00:26:57.76
My friend, as we pray
together and you are wanting
00:26:57.76\00:27:00.70
that experience, will you
lift up your heart to God now
00:27:00.70\00:27:04.03
and say in your mind or
say out loud, Lord, I want that
00:27:04.03\00:27:07.03
experience where you are
my God and I am your person,
00:27:07.03\00:27:12.36
and as Skip has said, I can just
trust in you and focus on you
00:27:12.36\00:27:16.66
and let you be my God.
00:27:16.66\00:27:18.50
Let whatever be have be all
yours so that you can be all
00:27:18.50\00:27:22.53
ours.
00:27:22.53\00:27:23.73
We pray this in
Jesus' name, Amen.
00:27:23.73\00:27:26.26
SM Amen.
00:27:26.26\00:27:28.83
[Music]
00:27:31.70\00:27:35.40
Thanks for joining me today.
00:27:43.66\00:27:44.70
I think, Skip, we are going to
get together again and do this
00:27:44.70\00:27:47.56
some more because we've
got much more to talk about.
00:27:47.56\00:27:50.33
Until then, remember, It
is written, man shall not
00:27:50.33\00:27:54.86
live by bread alone but
by every word that proceeds
00:27:54.86\00:27:59.36
from the mouth of God.
00:27:59.36\00:28:01.43