It has stood the test of time.
00:00:07.76\00:00:12.16
God's book, the Bible, still
relevant in today's complex
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world.
00:00:19.00\00:00:22.10
It Is Written,
sharing hope around the globe.
00:00:22.10\00:00:36.73
JB: Thanks for joining
me today on It Is Written.
00:00:36.73\00:00:38.73
Today, we're discussing
the very important and very
00:00:38.73\00:00:43.53
biblical subject of forgiveness.
00:00:43.53\00:00:47.10
And I have a special
guest with me today, his name is
00:00:47.10\00:00:49.70
Dick Tibbits.
00:00:49.70\00:00:50.96
He is a
speaker, he is an author.
00:00:50.96\00:00:53.30
He's also the chief people
officer for Florida Hospital.
00:00:53.30\00:00:56.10
And he's written a book
called "Forgive to Live."
00:00:56.10\00:00:59.46
Dick, thank you so
much for taking time today.
00:00:59.46\00:01:02.26
DT: It's good to be
back again, thank you.
00:01:02.26\00:01:04.30
JB:his subject of
forgiveness, such an
00:01:04.30\00:01:06.53
important subject.
00:01:06.53\00:01:07.86
Such a biblical subject.
00:01:07.86\00:01:09.76
In fact, let's dive into
this by going straight to the
00:01:09.76\00:01:12.66
Lord's prayer.
00:01:12.66\00:01:13.83
Jesus taught us to say,
"Forgive us our debts as we
00:01:13.83\00:01:19.23
forgive our debtors."
00:01:19.23\00:01:19.90
That's interesting, isn't it?
00:01:19.90\00:01:21.06
DT: Yes, in fact, at the
end of the prayer there's even a
00:01:21.06\00:01:23.00
commentary that clarifies
that and said, "And if you do
00:01:23.00\00:01:26.40
not forgive others,
your heavenly Father will not
00:01:26.40\00:01:29.63
forgive you."
00:01:29.63\00:01:30.60
Now, that is scary to
think that there's something I
00:01:30.60\00:01:33.83
could fail to do, and all
of a sudden God's going to
00:01:33.83\00:01:36.46
withhold his
forgiveness from me?
00:01:36.46\00:01:38.23
JB:t seems to me that as
Jesus was saying this, he was
00:01:38.23\00:01:41.03
very, very clear.
00:01:41.03\00:01:41.96
He was clear.
00:01:41.96\00:01:43.56
If you don't forgive others,
you can't really expect God
00:01:43.56\00:01:47.60
to forgive you.
00:01:47.60\00:01:48.66
It doesn't seem to me
like Jesus is saying, "Now,
00:01:48.66\00:01:51.30
there's a way for
you to earn forgiveness.
00:01:51.30\00:01:53.30
So clearly what he's doing
is he's linking this attitude
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that we might have with
others and saying that this
00:01:57.90\00:02:00.86
attitude we do or don't
have somehow perhaps makes it
00:02:00.86\00:02:04.90
impossible for us to receive
the grace and goodness of
00:02:04.90\00:02:07.33
God.
00:02:07.33\00:02:08.13
DT: Yeah, because
God's forgiving me gives me a
00:02:08.13\00:02:10.46
future benefit in eternal life.
00:02:10.46\00:02:13.03
My forgiving someone
else gives me a benefit today.
00:02:13.03\00:02:16.60
Because today when I practice
forgiveness I can be released
00:02:16.60\00:02:20.76
from the bitterness that
has kept me entrapped for
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decades.
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So it's really what God
is saying is not, I won't do
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this if you don't do that.
00:02:28.96\00:02:30.60
What he's saying is, I
can't give you the blessing that
00:02:30.60\00:02:33.63
forgiveness entails
unless you're willing to receive
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that by forgiving others.
00:02:36.70\00:02:39.50
JB:orgiveness is
good for a person.
00:02:39.50\00:02:41.50
DT: Yes.
00:02:41.50\00:02:42.50
JB:n all kinds of levels:
interpersonally, emotionally,
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physically even.
00:02:44.16\00:02:45.50
Even good for you
physically to forgive.
00:02:45.50\00:02:47.70
That's remarkable.
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DT: Yep, and we've discussed
that, how forgiveness can
00:02:48.80\00:02:51.46
change my blood pressure
and improve it, how forgiveness
00:02:51.46\00:02:54.43
can change my outlook
on life so that I move from
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bitterness to better.
00:02:57.93\00:02:58.70
Which is a whole
good way to do life.
00:02:58.70\00:03:02.00
I really feel for people
who have experienced pain who
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don't know how to
get out of bitterness.
00:03:04.83\00:03:07.33
That's why I teach
forgiveness, to give them a
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way out.
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JB:ell, let's do
some teaching right now.
00:03:10.40\00:03:12.10
We've established, even
today, and last time we met
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together, that forgiveness
is good for a person on all
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those levels.
00:03:17.30\00:03:19.30
It's biblical, Jesus mandated
it, he said, it was Peter,
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no, not seven times.
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Seventy times seven.
00:03:25.33\00:03:26.80
We talked in the past about
how forgiveness, really it's
00:03:26.80\00:03:29.20
kind of a process.
00:03:29.20\00:03:30.53
You might be able to forgive
something right away, someone
00:03:30.53\00:03:33.40
right away, they burned the
toast, you can get over that
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pretty quickly.
00:03:35.86\00:03:36.96
If someone causes some
terrible, grievous injury,
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you know, that's going to
be harder to work through.
00:03:39.20\00:03:41.20
Let's talk about
the how of forgiveness.
00:03:41.20\00:03:46.10
I don't know that there would
be very many people, there'd
00:03:46.10\00:03:48.50
be some, but there will not
be very many people who would
00:03:48.50\00:03:50.90
say, "I do not want to forgive."
00:03:50.90\00:03:54.13
I think the vast majority
of people would say, "I want to
00:03:54.13\00:03:56.20
forgive."
00:03:56.20\00:03:57.63
But some things are
easier said than done.
00:03:57.63\00:04:00.33
Help me to
understand how to forgive.
00:04:00.33\00:04:04.30
DT: Well, the first step
is the most obviously but it's
00:04:04.30\00:04:07.30
the most important,
and that is, I must choose
00:04:07.30\00:04:10.90
forgiveness.
00:04:10.90\00:04:12.46
You see, when something
happens to me, I frequently
00:04:12.46\00:04:15.10
react.
00:04:15.10\00:04:17.53
Psychologists call it
the famous stimulus response.
00:04:17.53\00:04:20.00
Stimulus, something
occurs, response, I react.
00:04:20.00\00:04:24.50
And in that thing, so
somebody hurts me or somebody
00:04:24.50\00:04:27.23
does something mean to me,
I react in pain and suffering.
00:04:27.23\00:04:29.60
Forgiveness adds to that
by saying, "I have a choice to
00:04:29.60\00:04:34.66
make."
00:04:34.66\00:04:36.16
And this is critically
important, because we now
00:04:36.16\00:04:38.76
know it's choice, not
circumstance, that determines
00:04:38.76\00:04:42.70
our life.
00:04:42.70\00:04:44.03
It's not the things that
happen to me that determine
00:04:44.03\00:04:46.56
what my life will become.
00:04:46.56\00:04:48.06
It's the choices that I make.
00:04:48.06\00:04:49.43
JB:t's how you
respond to those stimuli.
00:04:49.43\00:04:51.63
DT: Yeah.
00:04:51.63\00:04:53.03
And so, I teach people to
almost become Shakespearian
00:04:53.03\00:04:57.03
in this.
00:04:57.03\00:04:58.96
When something happens
to you, the question to ask
00:04:58.96\00:05:00.86
yourself is this: to forgive
or not to forgive, that is
00:05:00.86\00:05:05.03
the question.
00:05:05.03\00:05:06.33
JB:et me ask you a
question about that.
00:05:06.33\00:05:08.30
When do you ask that question?
00:05:08.30\00:05:10.83
Um, someone backs into my car
in the parking lot, my lovely
00:05:10.83\00:05:14.06
vehicle, I just had it
painted, causes terrible
00:05:14.06\00:05:16.76
damage.
00:05:16.76\00:05:18.76
When do I want to be
asking myself about forgiveness?
00:05:18.76\00:05:21.06
Right then?
00:05:21.06\00:05:22.46
Or after we've called insurance?
00:05:22.46\00:05:24.93
DT: You want to start the
forgiveness process as soon
00:05:24.93\00:05:27.33
as it comes to your
mind that you can forgive.
00:05:27.33\00:05:31.40
You see, most of us do things
without thinking about it.
00:05:31.40\00:05:34.16
It's called consciousness
and unconsciousness.
00:05:34.16\00:05:38.56
And John, I'd like to invite
you to do something that will
00:05:38.56\00:05:41.16
help us remember this, and
I want to invite our viewing
00:05:41.16\00:05:43.66
audience to do the same.
00:05:43.66\00:05:45.26
I simply want us to clasp
our hands together like that, if
00:05:45.26\00:05:48.40
you could do that, and just
stop, and ask and look, which
00:05:48.40\00:05:52.00
thumb is on the top?
00:05:52.00\00:05:53.56
Is it the left
thumb or the right thumb?
00:05:53.56\00:05:56.43
And let me tell
you the secret to this.
00:05:56.43\00:05:59.00
Half of the world will
have their left thumb on top and
00:05:59.00\00:06:02.63
half of the world will
have their right thumb on top.
00:06:02.63\00:06:05.33
It has nothing to do with
whether you're left-handed or
00:06:05.33\00:06:08.00
right-handed.
00:06:08.00\00:06:09.66
It simply has to do with
how you did it the first time,
00:06:09.66\00:06:11.93
and then how you
do it every time.
00:06:11.93\00:06:14.03
So John, when you put
your hands together, did you
00:06:14.03\00:06:16.53
think, which
thumb will I put on top?
00:06:16.53\00:06:18.76
JB:o, I did not.
00:06:18.76\00:06:19.43
And I tell you what,
every time I do it, same thing.
00:06:19.43\00:06:21.56
DT: Same thing.
00:06:21.56\00:06:22.63
JB:t doesn't feel right
to have my left thumb on top.
00:06:22.63\00:06:24.70
It's right on top
every single time.
00:06:24.70\00:06:26.56
DT: When you do it backwards,
it feels very awkward.
00:06:26.56\00:06:28.66
JB:o, no, if I did
that I would change.
00:06:28.66\00:06:30.40
I would say,
that's just not right.
00:06:30.40\00:06:32.10
DT: And yet half the world
does it that way and thinks
00:06:32.10\00:06:34.60
the way you do it is awkward.
00:06:34.60\00:06:35.80
My point being that when
we did this, we didn't think,
00:06:35.80\00:06:38.33
that was an unconscious action.
00:06:38.33\00:06:41.36
When we've been hurt, we are
going to unconsciously react.
00:06:41.36\00:06:44.80
So when somebody bangs into
my car, I might not think of
00:06:44.80\00:06:48.10
forgiveness right away.
00:06:48.10\00:06:50.36
But when the thought comes
in, and we can say a prayer
00:06:50.36\00:06:53.66
that, God, when I have
been hurt, please remind me to
00:06:53.66\00:06:56.03
forgive, God will bring
the thought of forgiveness.
00:06:56.03\00:06:59.50
When the thought
comes, that's when I choose to
00:06:59.50\00:07:02.50
forgive.
00:07:02.50\00:07:04.10
JB:ou spoke a moment ago
and said, you referenced the
00:07:04.10\00:07:07.33
forgiveness process.
00:07:07.33\00:07:09.70
You know, I think one of
the difficult things about
00:07:09.70\00:07:13.86
forgiveness is people have
always misconceived ideas or
00:07:13.86\00:07:15.10
misperceptions of
about what forgiveness is.
00:07:15.10\00:07:18.10
Forgiveness doesn't
happen in an instant.
00:07:18.10\00:07:21.70
Forgive and forget-last
time we spoke we talked about
00:07:21.70\00:07:24.00
forgive and forget.
00:07:24.00\00:07:25.20
That's not even reality.
00:07:25.20\00:07:27.10
Um, so how does this
forgiveness process work?
00:07:27.10\00:07:31.83
DT: Easy.
00:07:31.83\00:07:33.46
I choose to forgive, and
I have that sense that I've
00:07:33.46\00:07:36.46
made that decision.
00:07:36.46\00:07:37.70
JB:ou backed into my
car, I said, I really need to
00:07:37.70\00:07:40.16
forgive that guy,
and I'm going to do this.
00:07:40.16\00:07:42.43
DT: Yep.
00:07:42.43\00:07:43.40
However, two hours later or
the next day, I have to call
00:07:43.40\00:07:46.20
my insurance company, and
all of a sudden I'm aware, wow,
00:07:46.20\00:07:48.46
this came, this took
money out of my pocket.
00:07:48.46\00:07:50.53
I thought I was covered,
but I have a deductible.
00:07:50.53\00:07:52.70
This person just
cost me $500, or whatever.
00:07:52.70\00:07:54.80
And I'm upset again.
00:07:54.80\00:07:56.06
JB:'m mad now.
00:07:56.06\00:07:57.03
DT: I'm mad again.
00:07:57.03\00:07:58.33
Ah, choose to forgive again.
00:07:58.33\00:08:01.00
And so I forgive again
and I'm fine, until a couple
00:08:01.00\00:08:04.13
days, I go to the body
shop, and they talk about, you
00:08:04.13\00:08:08.26
know, matching the paint,
and they do it, and it doesn't
00:08:08.26\00:08:10.63
quite look as
perfect as it did new.
00:08:10.63\00:08:12.56
And so now I've got a car
that's always going to have
00:08:12.56\00:08:14.93
this defect.
00:08:14.93\00:08:16.00
And it upsets me again.
00:08:16.00\00:08:17.26
JB:nd as long as I've got
that car, every time I look
00:08:17.26\00:08:19.53
at it...
00:08:19.53\00:08:20.63
DT: I'm going to remember.
00:08:20.63\00:08:21.73
However, every time I can
feel the upsetness coming,
00:08:21.73\00:08:25.30
the hurt or the anger rising,
I choose to forgive again.
00:08:25.30\00:08:28.86
And that's why I think
Christ's advice was, I tell
00:08:28.86\00:08:34.60
you not to forgive seven times.
00:08:34.60\00:08:37.53
I wish I could tell you
to forgive once or twice and
00:08:37.53\00:08:39.20
it's over.
00:08:39.20\00:08:40.60
Some things it is over.
00:08:40.60\00:08:41.90
It is that easy.
00:08:41.90\00:08:43.30
But there are other things
that it'll be forgiveness and
00:08:43.30\00:08:46.16
forgiveness.
00:08:46.16\00:08:48.00
So let me offer
you this assistance.
00:08:48.00\00:08:50.80
When I forgive, it can be
discouraging because I just
00:08:50.80\00:08:53.43
forgave yesterday and I
forgave the day before, and
00:08:53.43\00:08:55.83
it keeps coming back.
00:08:55.83\00:08:56.83
Nothing's getting better.
00:08:56.83\00:08:57.66
Does forgiveness work?
00:08:57.66\00:08:59.86
What I tell people is there's
two things that will begin to
00:08:59.86\00:09:03.50
occur each time you forgive.
00:09:03.50\00:09:05.43
One is the intensity
will become less and less.
00:09:05.43\00:09:10.83
It still might be upsetting
but it won't be as upsetting.
00:09:10.83\00:09:13.53
Every time I reduce that
intensity, I'm benefiting
00:09:13.53\00:09:15.73
from the gift of forgiveness.
00:09:15.73\00:09:18.10
And the second thing
that'll change is frequency.
00:09:18.10\00:09:20.93
Yeah, I'll remember it again.
00:09:20.93\00:09:22.73
But I was remembering
it every hour, now I'm only
00:09:22.73\00:09:24.73
remembering it every day,
and a time will come when I'll
00:09:24.73\00:09:27.70
only recall it every month,
and then maybe once or twice
00:09:27.70\00:09:30.83
a year, and then maybe, maybe
I'll remember it and maybe I
00:09:30.83\00:09:33.40
won't.
00:09:33.40\00:09:34.83
Intensity and frequency
are the indicators of the
00:09:34.83\00:09:38.70
effectiveness of forgiveness.
00:09:38.70\00:09:40.76
JB:n your book "Forgive
to Live," you write about
00:09:40.76\00:09:43.50
something that is a
key component in practicing
00:09:43.50\00:09:48.90
forgiveness.
00:09:48.90\00:09:50.03
That's something
called reframing.
00:09:50.03\00:09:52.36
We're going to talk
about that in just a moment.
00:09:52.36\00:09:54.06
Reframing.
00:09:54.06\00:09:55.10
You will not want to miss this.
00:09:55.10\00:09:58.36
I'll be right back.
00:09:58.36\00:10:01.46
>: In Matthew 4:4 the Word
of God says, "It is written, man
00:10:01.46\00:10:05.46
shall not live by bread
alone, but by every word that
00:10:05.46\00:10:08.96
proceeds from the mouth of God."
00:10:08.96\00:10:11.13
"Every Word" is a one-minute
Bible-based daily devotional
00:10:11.13\00:10:13.46
presented by Pastor
John Bradshaw and designed
00:10:13.46\00:10:16.50
especially for
busy people like you.
00:10:16.50\00:10:19.46
Look for "Every Word" on
selected networks or watch it
00:10:19.46\00:10:22.83
online every day on our
website: itiswritten.com.
00:10:22.83\00:10:26.93
Receive a daily spiritual boost.
00:10:26.93\00:10:29.06
Watch "Every Word;"
you'll be glad you did.
00:10:29.06\00:10:35.43
JB: Thanks for
joining me on It Is Written.
00:10:35.43\00:10:37.16
My guest today, Dick Tibbits,
the author of "Forgive to
00:10:37.16\00:10:40.33
Live" and the chief people
officer at Florida Hospital.
00:10:40.33\00:10:43.33
Dick, in your book "Forgive
to Live," you talk about
00:10:43.33\00:10:45.86
something that's a key
component in the process of
00:10:45.86\00:10:48.86
forgiveness, and that's
something you call reframing.
00:10:48.86\00:10:51.66
Explain that to me.
00:10:51.66\00:10:54.46
DT: Well, reframing is taking
an event and seeing it from a
00:10:54.46\00:10:59.30
different perspective.
00:10:59.30\00:11:01.46
We all view life from our
frame of reference, depending
00:11:01.46\00:11:05.70
on our background, our history.
00:11:05.70\00:11:07.20
So reframing is taking
that frame of reference that I'm
00:11:07.20\00:11:10.70
used to doing things as and
looking at them differently.
00:11:10.70\00:11:15.93
Good illustration, when
you go to the art shop and you
00:11:15.93\00:11:18.56
put a frame around a picture.
00:11:18.56\00:11:20.03
I can bring the frame
in close and get just the
00:11:20.03\00:11:22.23
portrait.
00:11:22.23\00:11:23.43
Or I can expand the
frame and get a family picture.
00:11:23.43\00:11:27.63
What I see, what I choose
to see in my frame is how I see
00:11:27.63\00:11:30.66
life.
00:11:30.66\00:11:32.56
JB:et's see if we can
work this with a few concrete
00:11:32.56\00:11:35.06
examples.
00:11:35.06\00:11:36.06
I mentioned before,
you backed into my car.
00:11:36.06\00:11:38.00
Okay, you backed into my car
and I'm madder than a wet hen
00:11:38.00\00:11:40.80
because you backed into my car.
00:11:40.80\00:11:42.60
Maybe if I pulled the frame
out a little bit I would see,
00:11:42.60\00:11:45.13
what?
00:11:45.13\00:11:47.40
DT: Part of it is you could
see, maybe, a circumstance in
00:11:47.40\00:11:49.53
my life.
00:11:49.53\00:11:51.20
I may have just gotten a
phone call that my mother was
00:11:51.20\00:11:55.16
in critical condition, and
all I can think about is what
00:11:55.16\00:11:58.33
do I say to her, and what
do I need to say, is she going
00:11:58.33\00:12:00.50
to be alive?
00:12:00.50\00:12:01.83
And I'm so distracted
with that thought as I normally
00:12:01.83\00:12:04.03
would carefully drive.
00:12:04.03\00:12:05.50
And so while I'm
thinking about that, you stop, I
00:12:05.50\00:12:09.23
didn't see it, my reaction
is delayed, and I hit you.
00:12:09.23\00:12:12.40
Now, I still hit you, and
it wasn't your fault and you
00:12:12.40\00:12:14.90
still deserve the right
to collect from my insurance.
00:12:14.90\00:12:18.30
And none of that changes.
00:12:18.30\00:12:20.43
But rather than you seeing
me as a stupid, what were you
00:12:20.43\00:12:22.80
thinking, what were you
doing, you now see me as
00:12:22.80\00:12:24.93
maybe something you
can understand yourself.
00:12:24.93\00:12:27.06
JB:omeone is shot dead,
there's a grieving family.
00:12:27.06\00:12:34.03
Let's see if we can
pull the frame back.
00:12:34.03\00:12:38.23
Um, dead loved
one, mad man with a gun.
00:12:38.23\00:12:42.73
But perhaps, perhaps the
guy was high on drugs, wasn't in
00:12:42.73\00:12:47.56
control of his capacities.
00:12:47.56\00:12:50.63
Then you could talk about
perhaps his upbringing and
00:12:50.63\00:12:53.10
some of the other unfortunate
circumstances of his life.
00:12:53.10\00:12:55.33
Would that be reframing?
00:12:55.33\00:12:57.16
DT: That would be reframing.
00:12:57.16\00:12:58.70
And part of reframing is
how large we make a frame.
00:12:58.70\00:13:01.70
JB:et me ask you a question.
00:13:01.70\00:13:03.46
Because I hear someone
who's watching us saying, you're
00:13:03.46\00:13:06.46
letting the guy off the hook.
00:13:06.46\00:13:08.13
Am I letting the guy
off the hook by reframing?
00:13:08.13\00:13:10.53
Well, the poor dear, he had
a drug problem and he didn't
00:13:10.53\00:13:13.10
have a daddy, and poor fellow.
00:13:13.10\00:13:16.06
Is that what I'm doing?
00:13:16.06\00:13:17.20
DT: No.
00:13:17.20\00:13:18.10
A couple of things.
00:13:18.10\00:13:19.10
Number one, the
facts are the facts.
00:13:19.10\00:13:21.00
Reframing
doesn't change the facts.
00:13:21.00\00:13:22.70
Number two, every
action has consequences.
00:13:22.70\00:13:25.50
And so reframing doesn't
change the consequences to an
00:13:25.50\00:13:27.80
act.
00:13:27.80\00:13:29.03
The person may need to serve
time in jail to reflect upon
00:13:29.03\00:13:32.00
what they did, so they
don't do it again with the
00:13:32.00\00:13:34.33
thoughtlessness that they
might have done that time.
00:13:34.33\00:13:37.06
But the other thing reframing
does is, I live a world of
00:13:37.06\00:13:40.26
sin.
00:13:40.26\00:13:41.63
I live in a world where evil
happens, where hurt happens.
00:13:41.63\00:13:43.80
I cannot live in a protected
world where nothing bad
00:13:43.80\00:13:47.20
happens to me.
00:13:47.20\00:13:49.10
You know, bad things
happen to good people.
00:13:49.10\00:13:52.26
And so I need to have a
perspective that says, you
00:13:52.26\00:13:55.13
know, at some point
it's in God's hands.
00:13:55.13\00:13:58.26
God has a view of the
world different than mine.
00:13:58.26\00:14:00.73
And if I can turn it over
to God, then I'm not stuck with
00:14:00.73\00:14:03.36
all the difficulties and
trials of this world, but I
00:14:03.36\00:14:07.30
share it.
00:14:07.30\00:14:09.26
It's almost like the yoke.
00:14:09.26\00:14:10.60
God takes some of my burden
and shares it with me because
00:14:10.60\00:14:12.63
I'm bringing him into my world.
00:14:12.63\00:14:16.00
JB:o reframing helps me to
step back a little bit, look
00:14:16.00\00:14:18.86
at the big picture, and then
I'm going to suggest what it
00:14:18.86\00:14:23.80
enables me to do is to
perhaps more easily choose
00:14:23.80\00:14:29.20
the forgiveness option,
rather than seeing someone as
00:14:29.20\00:14:32.30
a tyrant or a moron or an
idiot or whatever; I'm now
00:14:32.30\00:14:35.56
seeing that person who,
like me, is subject to various
00:14:35.56\00:14:38.80
dynamics in his or her
life and maybe was under stress,
00:14:38.80\00:14:44.10
strain, reaction, whatever.
00:14:44.10\00:14:45.73
DT: Exactly.
00:14:45.73\00:14:46.96
In fact, what I tell people
is that reframing is really
00:14:46.96\00:14:50.63
seeing the person in
a more holistic view.
00:14:50.63\00:14:54.23
When I'm upset at someone,
I notice all of your bad
00:14:54.23\00:14:57.26
points.
00:14:57.26\00:14:59.26
I've experienced this when
I get into an argument with a
00:14:59.26\00:15:03.00
friend.
00:15:03.00\00:15:04.53
They bring back all the
things they can think of that
00:15:04.53\00:15:06.26
I've done wrong.
00:15:06.26\00:15:07.33
And when someone's hurt us,
we tend to make them all bad.
00:15:07.33\00:15:09.90
Well, I got to tell you,
there is no one all good, and
00:15:09.90\00:15:12.53
there is no one all bad.
00:15:12.53\00:15:13.73
Reframing is
bringing the good and the bad.
00:15:13.73\00:15:15.96
Because if I don't, I get
so locked into all the terrible
00:15:15.96\00:15:18.30
things they do, is
that's all I see of the person.
00:15:18.30\00:15:20.96
And you see that.
00:15:20.96\00:15:21.96
Best friends, and something
happens, and all of a sudden
00:15:21.96\00:15:24.76
that best friend
becomes my worst enemy.
00:15:24.76\00:15:27.16
Before I saw their good
and the bad, and now I only see
00:15:27.16\00:15:29.23
their bad and I don't
want anything to do with them.
00:15:29.23\00:15:31.90
You know, I'm thankful, John,
that God sees the good in me
00:15:31.90\00:15:36.16
and not just the bad.
00:15:36.16\00:15:37.76
Because if he didn't, we'd
be in a terrible predicament.
00:15:37.76\00:15:41.50
JB:eah, we sure
would, wouldn't we?
00:15:41.50\00:15:44.03
If we confess our sins, he
is faithful and just to forgive
00:15:44.03\00:15:48.36
us our sins.
00:15:48.36\00:15:51.43
And again back to the Lord's
prayer, forgive us our debts
00:15:51.43\00:15:54.40
as we forgive our debtors.
00:15:54.40\00:15:57.73
This really isn't
up for grabs, is it?
00:15:57.73\00:16:00.83
This is not
optional, it's a must.
00:16:00.83\00:16:03.16
DT: It is a must.
00:16:03.16\00:16:04.26
Because when I'm
angry, I'm blinded.
00:16:04.26\00:16:06.33
You've heard the
expression, "Love is blind"?
00:16:06.33\00:16:08.53
I mean, I really got in
touch with that when my daughter
00:16:08.53\00:16:11.80
had her first boyfriend,
and I go, what are you thinking!
00:16:11.80\00:16:13.56
But when you're in love
with someone, what's all you see
00:16:13.56\00:16:14.70
in that person?
00:16:14.70\00:16:15.43
JB:eah, all the
good, wonderful things.
00:16:15.43\00:16:17.30
DT: All the good.
00:16:17.30\00:16:18.23
And you don't see the bad.
00:16:18.23\00:16:19.23
Well, I'm going to tell
you, anger is equally as blind.
00:16:19.23\00:16:21.23
Because when I'm angry
at someone, I only see their
00:16:21.23\00:16:23.46
bad, I don't see their good.
00:16:23.46\00:16:26.70
And that's why we cannot
relate to the world or even
00:16:26.70\00:16:29.10
another individual out
of anger, because we will
00:16:29.10\00:16:31.56
distort our picture.
00:16:31.56\00:16:33.03
That's why I say,
forgiveness is reframing.
00:16:33.03\00:16:36.20
It's getting the picture
more accurate, more complete.
00:16:36.20\00:16:39.00
JB:o you think that
forgiveness helps us to have
00:16:39.00\00:16:42.03
a more complete
picture of who God is?
00:16:42.03\00:16:44.70
DT: Oh, absolutely.
00:16:44.70\00:16:46.16
It, well, first of
all, my forgiving others and
00:16:46.16\00:16:50.70
understanding how difficult
that is helps me not to take
00:16:50.70\00:16:53.60
God's forgiveness for granted.
00:16:53.60\00:16:56.16
He went to Calvary so
that I could be forgiven.
00:16:56.16\00:16:58.40
I need to recognize
that God struggled with that
00:16:58.40\00:17:01.36
forgiveness.
00:17:01.36\00:17:03.73
"If it be
possible, let this cup..."
00:17:03.73\00:17:07.33
But he chose, he stayed
with his choice because he knew
00:17:07.33\00:17:10.93
that the alternative to
forgiveness is destruction.
00:17:10.93\00:17:15.70
JB:o it's okay if
someone says, I really want to
00:17:15.70\00:17:22.63
forgive X, but I
find it so difficult?
00:17:22.63\00:17:25.06
It's okay?
00:17:25.06\00:17:26.00
DT: In fact, not
okay, that's reality.
00:17:26.00\00:17:28.26
If it's not difficult, I tell
people, it's not forgiveness.
00:17:28.26\00:17:31.13
It's denial.
00:17:31.13\00:17:32.73
To quickly forgive someone
like it didn't happen, that's
00:17:32.73\00:17:35.36
just denial.
00:17:35.36\00:17:36.73
Forgiveness deals right
head on with the struggle.
00:17:36.73\00:17:39.96
So when I forgive someone,
it doesn't mean I have to smile
00:17:39.96\00:17:42.96
and say, the world is wonderful.
00:17:42.96\00:17:45.40
I can forgive you and yet
tell you, John, that what you
00:17:45.40\00:17:47.90
did hurt me deeply.
00:17:47.90\00:17:49.30
And I'm going to have to
work to get over this pain, I'm
00:17:49.30\00:17:51.86
going to work to get over
it, but I want you to know, I'm
00:17:51.86\00:17:54.73
not going to blame you.
00:17:54.73\00:17:55.83
I'm not going to come to the
place where I believe that my
00:17:55.83\00:17:59.23
life is your fault.
00:17:59.23\00:18:00.86
I'm going to seek forgiveness
so that I can live my life.
00:18:00.86\00:18:03.73
And I want you to know that.
00:18:03.73\00:18:04.86
JB:orgiveness is
such a powerful thing.
00:18:04.86\00:18:07.00
Jesus encouraged us to
forgive others; every day we
00:18:07.00\00:18:09.10
receive forgiveness
from the God of heaven.
00:18:09.10\00:18:12.50
More on forgiveness with
Dick Tibbits in just a moment.
00:18:12.50\00:18:17.06
JB: It Is Written is
dedicated to sharing the
00:18:17.06\00:18:18.93
Gospel around the world.
00:18:18.93\00:18:20.50
To discover more about It
Is Written, I invite you to
00:18:20.50\00:18:22.73
visit our website,
itiswritten.com, and
00:18:22.73\00:18:25.10
throughout the dozens of
pages that describe what we
00:18:25.10\00:18:27.76
do and how we do it,
let's get to know each other
00:18:27.76\00:18:30.93
better.
00:18:30.93\00:18:31.93
Visit our website,
itiswritten.com, today.
00:18:31.93\00:18:34.56
JB: Today on It Is
Written, how to forgive.
00:18:34.56\00:18:40.03
Thanks so much for
being with me today.
00:18:40.03\00:18:42.56
I'm with Dick Tibbits,
chief people officer at Florida
00:18:42.56\00:18:44.60
Hospital and the
author of "Forgive to Live."
00:18:44.60\00:18:48.43
The benefits of
forgiveness, Dick.
00:18:48.43\00:18:52.53
What are they and
how do we realize them?
00:18:52.53\00:18:54.60
DT: Well, that's the whole crux.
00:18:54.60\00:18:57.10
I forgive because it
makes my life better.
00:18:57.10\00:18:59.63
I tell people, you can either
complain and blame or you can
00:18:59.63\00:19:03.23
forgive and live.
00:19:03.23\00:19:04.60
Because forgiveness, once it
sets me free from the control
00:19:04.60\00:19:07.93
of the past, then invites
me to say, where do I want my
00:19:07.93\00:19:11.80
life to go?
00:19:11.80\00:19:13.63
What goals do I want to
set for my life, what do I want
00:19:13.63\00:19:15.63
to become?
00:19:15.63\00:19:16.93
Or, from a spiritual
perspective, what does God
00:19:16.93\00:19:19.66
want me to be, and
how do I get there?
00:19:19.66\00:19:22.06
So it releases me from
the past to give me an open
00:19:22.06\00:19:25.00
playing field for
where my life can go.
00:19:25.00\00:19:27.16
JB:et me jump in on that.
00:19:27.16\00:19:28.00
That's reality, there are
people who aren't realizing
00:19:28.00\00:19:30.00
what they should be realizing
in their life because of
00:19:30.00\00:19:32.06
unforgiveness?
00:19:32.06\00:19:32.90
DT: Yes.
00:19:32.90\00:19:34.20
They're trapped.
00:19:34.20\00:19:35.40
And when you live in the
past, by repeating that story
00:19:35.40\00:19:37.90
and story and story, over
and over again, then your life
00:19:37.90\00:19:40.13
repeats itself.
00:19:40.13\00:19:41.50
So a year from now I can be
in the same place I am today
00:19:41.50\00:19:43.76
because I haven't broken
that chain, I haven't released
00:19:43.76\00:19:48.53
myself.
00:19:48.53\00:19:49.40
And forgiveness is
the way to freedom.
00:19:49.40\00:19:52.83
It is the way to peace.
00:19:52.83\00:19:54.46
JB:hat would you say to
somebody watching us today,
00:19:54.46\00:19:56.63
and they're saying, yeah,
but I'm dealing with like a
00:19:56.63\00:19:59.33
really, really big thing.
00:19:59.33\00:20:00.46
This isn't you
backing into my car.
00:20:00.46\00:20:05.06
This is my child is
disabled because of someone's
00:20:05.06\00:20:09.93
negligence, or whatever.
00:20:09.93\00:20:12.46
This is big stuff.
00:20:12.46\00:20:14.16
What would you say to
that person struggling with a
00:20:14.16\00:20:16.40
forgiveness issue
on a subject like that?
00:20:16.40\00:20:18.86
DT: Well, I can share from
my own experience, having, um,
00:20:18.86\00:20:21.16
well, in fact, I went to work
one day and my boss called me
00:20:21.16\00:20:27.90
in, and I
thought, what's this about?
00:20:27.90\00:20:30.36
And I must admit, I had
that little adolescent feeling,
00:20:30.36\00:20:32.96
you know, when the principal
calls you, I must have done
00:20:32.96\00:20:35.23
something wrong.
00:20:35.23\00:20:36.10
JB: I'm familiar with that.
00:20:36.10\00:20:37.16
DT: Yes.
00:20:37.16\00:20:38.10
But I didn't know what I
could have done wrong, and so
00:20:38.10\00:20:40.10
I went in, and my boss didn't
look me in the eye, and had a
00:20:40.10\00:20:43.36
sheet of paper on the desk,
and read to me a script that
00:20:43.36\00:20:46.76
went something like this: As
a result of the reengineering
00:20:46.76\00:20:50.26
of this organization, we
have eliminated some positions,
00:20:50.26\00:20:54.16
and your position is
no longer a part of this
00:20:54.16\00:20:56.10
company.
00:20:56.10\00:20:57.26
You will pick up
your final paycheck today.
00:20:57.26\00:20:59.80
Thank you for your service.
00:20:59.80\00:21:01.13
Good day.
00:21:01.13\00:21:02.96
And that was it.
00:21:02.96\00:21:04.46
Well, I walked out
of there devastated.
00:21:04.46\00:21:07.33
My world was turned upside down.
00:21:07.33\00:21:09.73
Now, I know there are
different events that turn
00:21:09.73\00:21:12.00
different people's
worlds upside down.
00:21:12.00\00:21:14.63
And I know that one of
the blessings of life is, no
00:21:14.63\00:21:17.83
matter how much you suffer,
you can always find someone
00:21:17.83\00:21:19.83
suffering more than you and
be thankful that by the grace
00:21:19.83\00:21:22.60
of God.
00:21:22.60\00:21:23.93
But for me, that
turned my world upside down.
00:21:23.93\00:21:26.90
My life and my work were so
intertwined; I loved my work,
00:21:26.90\00:21:31.26
and now I couldn't come
back to work the next day.
00:21:31.26\00:21:34.13
So I remember going home that
evening and having to tell my
00:21:34.13\00:21:37.63
wife, who had just quit
her job to start her schooling,
00:21:37.63\00:21:41.13
and my daughter who was
just going away to college, that
00:21:41.13\00:21:44.53
our world had changed.
00:21:44.53\00:21:46.63
What was devastating
about that is how it gripped me.
00:21:46.63\00:21:49.73
You know, you expect
that in a week or so I'd start
00:21:49.73\00:21:51.86
applying for
jobs and just move on.
00:21:51.86\00:21:54.90
But I couldn't move on, I
was frozen, I was angry, I was
00:21:54.90\00:21:58.03
bitter, I felt betrayed.
00:21:58.03\00:22:00.30
These were not only my
bosses, they were my friends.
00:22:00.30\00:22:03.23
And they just threw me away.
00:22:03.23\00:22:05.23
And I couldn't get past that.
00:22:05.23\00:22:08.03
My health began to suffer,
my blood pressure went up, I was
00:22:08.03\00:22:11.00
putting on weight, I wasn't
exercising, I wasn't eating
00:22:11.00\00:22:13.36
properly.
00:22:13.36\00:22:14.70
My mood had changed.
00:22:14.70\00:22:15.83
I was always a very
optimistic, cheerful person,
00:22:15.83\00:22:18.93
and now I was withdrawn
and bitter and didn't want to
00:22:18.93\00:22:21.40
talk to people.
00:22:21.40\00:22:22.80
My spiritual nature had changed.
00:22:22.80\00:22:25.26
I struggled to go to church
because I didn't know how to
00:22:25.26\00:22:28.26
face people.
00:22:28.26\00:22:29.66
I was a failure, and how
could I preach the gospel
00:22:29.66\00:22:31.96
when I was failing.
00:22:31.96\00:22:32.96
And so my whole
world spiraled down.
00:22:32.96\00:22:37.03
And I had people tell
me, Dick, get over it.
00:22:37.03\00:22:40.13
Move beyond.
00:22:40.13\00:22:41.80
I didn't know what to do.
00:22:41.80\00:22:43.63
I was experiencing anger and
the dark side of anger, which
00:22:43.63\00:22:49.13
was depression.
00:22:49.13\00:22:50.76
And I was out of control
until finally a friend of
00:22:50.76\00:22:54.66
mine came to me and said,
"Have you tried forgiveness?"
00:22:54.66\00:22:57.93
And I thought, I went
to seminary, I studied
00:22:57.93\00:23:01.36
forgiveness.
00:23:01.36\00:23:03.00
Why didn't I think of that?
00:23:03.00\00:23:04.90
But you know, that changed
my life, and today I'm doing a
00:23:04.90\00:23:09.10
job I love, my family is
together, I have a life that
00:23:09.10\00:23:13.50
I didn't think I could live
because forgiveness released
00:23:13.50\00:23:18.30
me from that bitterness,
so I could find a better life.
00:23:18.30\00:23:23.13
JB: This subject of
forgiveness, it's central to
00:23:23.13\00:23:25.40
the gospel, isn't it?
00:23:25.40\00:23:26.90
DT: It is absolutely central.
00:23:26.90\00:23:28.40
It is Genesis to Revelation.
00:23:28.40\00:23:31.73
It is what changes our lives.
00:23:31.73\00:23:33.33
It is the gift that God
has given to us, to forgive one
00:23:33.33\00:23:38.33
another and to
receive God's forgiveness.
00:23:38.33\00:23:41.80
JB:ick, in South Africa a
number of years ago, there
00:23:41.80\00:23:44.40
was this remarkable Truth
and Reconciliation Commission to
00:23:44.40\00:23:48.30
help South Africa
get from apartheid to the
00:23:48.30\00:23:52.00
post-apartheid era in a
somewhat healthy fashion.
00:23:52.00\00:23:56.30
And South African President
Nelson Mandela had some
00:23:56.30\00:23:59.40
remarkable things to
say about forgiveness.
00:23:59.40\00:24:02.60
DT: Yeah, we've been
talking about forgiveness at an
00:24:02.60\00:24:04.50
individual level, but here
we have it at a national level.
00:24:04.50\00:24:07.60
You see, Nelson Mandela
knew that over the years all the
00:24:07.60\00:24:11.13
suppression that took place,
if that was released all at
00:24:11.13\00:24:14.66
once, all of that anger
and hurt and bitterness would
00:24:14.66\00:24:17.40
come crashing into the
streets with looting and
00:24:17.40\00:24:20.60
killing even.
00:24:20.60\00:24:21.96
And so he knew that if
this transition was to make the
00:24:21.96\00:24:24.96
government stronger,
that forgiveness would be
00:24:24.96\00:24:27.90
necessary to deal with
all of that hurt and anger.
00:24:27.90\00:24:31.00
In fact, his close friend,
Bishop Desmond Tutu, said
00:24:31.00\00:24:34.50
this: "Without
forgiveness there is no future."
00:24:34.50\00:24:39.23
JB:f that was true for
South Africa, it's certainly
00:24:39.23\00:24:42.10
true for me and you,
anybody watching today.
00:24:42.10\00:24:44.33
DT: Absolutely.
00:24:44.33\00:24:45.90
JB:ithout forgiveness
there's really no future, is
00:24:45.90\00:24:47.83
there?
00:24:47.83\00:24:48.80
DT: There is no future,
there's only reliving the
00:24:48.80\00:24:50.73
past.
00:24:50.73\00:24:51.83
JB: just can't thank you
enough, Dick, for taking the
00:24:51.83\00:24:53.70
time to join me today.
00:24:53.70\00:24:54.83
And I know that many,
many people watching today are
00:24:54.83\00:25:00.23
going to have their lives
transformed because they've
00:25:00.23\00:25:03.53
taken what you've put
together, what the Lord led
00:25:03.53\00:25:06.06
you to, they're going to
apply it in their own lives,
00:25:06.06\00:25:08.60
and they're going to be
free and forgiving and forgiven.
00:25:08.60\00:25:11.50
DT: It'll change your life.
00:25:11.50\00:25:12.66
Forgiveness is the one
thing that changes everything.
00:25:12.66\00:25:15.76
JB:men.
00:25:15.76\00:25:17.43
Let's pray
together, can we do that?
00:25:17.43\00:25:20.06
DT: Let's do that.
00:25:20.06\00:25:20.73
JB:ather in heaven, I
thank you so much that you are a
00:25:20.73\00:25:23.30
God who forgives.
00:25:23.30\00:25:25.13
We thank you the Bible
tells us, assures us that we can
00:25:25.13\00:25:27.13
come to you with all of our
mess and baggage and all the
00:25:27.13\00:25:32.13
stuff, and know that you'll
forgive us and you'll forgive
00:25:32.13\00:25:35.66
us freely.
00:25:35.66\00:25:36.63
I pray, help us to be
forgiving people and to
00:25:36.63\00:25:41.20
experience the blessings
that flow when forgiveness takes
00:25:41.20\00:25:45.03
place in our lives I
thank you, Lord, for this time,
00:25:45.03\00:25:49.66
knowing that you will
bless greatly as a result of it.
00:25:49.66\00:25:53.10
And we pray together
in Jesus' name, Amen.
00:25:53.10\00:25:55.23
DT: Amen.
00:25:55.23\00:26:24.80
[Music] JB: Perhaps our
program today has touched
00:26:24.80\00:26:27.23
your heart and impressed
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00:26:27.23\00:26:29.43
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00:26:29.43\00:26:30.60
If you desire to listen
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00:26:30.60\00:26:33.90
we've got a wonderful
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do that in a systematic
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These study guides will
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00:26:40.40\00:26:42.83
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00:26:42.83\00:26:44.33
They give you the big
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00:26:44.33\00:26:46.86
fits together.
00:26:46.86\00:26:48.03
The Discover Bible Guides
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00:26:48.03\00:26:50.40
becoming grounded in the Word
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00:26:53.33\00:26:57.06
Please call or write us,
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00:27:45.26\00:27:49.00
JB: Friend, until next
time, I'd like you to remember
00:27:49.00\00:27:51.40
this.
00:27:51.40\00:27:52.66
The Bible says, "It is
written, man shall not live
00:27:52.66\00:27:54.90
by bread alone, but by every
word that proceeds from the
00:27:54.90\00:27:57.60
mouth of God."
00:27:57.60\00:27:59.80