JOHN: You've heard the
stories, like that of Job,
00:00:02.06\00:00:04.16
who in the Bible had everything
a man could want, and then
00:00:04.16\00:00:07.03
he lost it, all
suddenly and tragically.
00:00:07.03\00:00:11.66
What happens, though when
those Bible stories get out of
00:00:11.66\00:00:15.06
the pages of the Bible
and find their way into
00:00:15.06\00:00:17.30
the lives of everyday people?
00:00:17.30\00:00:19.76
I'm here in "Everywhere USA" it
could be where you live, regular
00:00:19.76\00:00:23.83
people, living regular lives.
00:00:23.83\00:00:26.46
And it's here where I'm going to
speak with Karen Johnson, whose
00:00:26.46\00:00:30.20
life was struck by terrible,
random tragedy, but then God
00:00:30.20\00:00:36.06
turned that into triumph,
through the power of his grace.
00:00:36.06\00:00:40.40
???(Theme Music)??? It
has stood the test of time.
00:00:40.40\00:00:51.96
God's Book, the Bible.
00:00:51.96\00:00:56.93
Still relevant in
today's complex world.
00:00:56.93\00:01:01.96
It Is Written,
sharing hope around the globe.
00:01:01.96\00:01:17.16
JOHN: Karen, thank you so much
for taking the time to talk with
00:01:17.16\00:01:19.56
me today.
00:01:19.56\00:01:20.46
KAREN: You're welcome.
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JOHN: It had been a perfect day.
00:01:21.40\00:01:23.36
Your husband John and yourself
had had a great day, and then,
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and then in the evening...
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KAREN: In the evening we decided
that we were going to go out on
00:01:29.13\00:01:31.90
our date night.
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We hadn't had a date night in
quite sometime and I was very,
00:01:32.96\00:01:35.86
very excited.
00:01:35.86\00:01:37.16
I had just got my hair done the
day before, and we decided that
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we were going
to do three things.
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We we going to go out to a
restaurant to eat first, because
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I told him I was hungry, then
from there we were going to go
00:01:45.86\00:01:49.30
to a friend's house and we
were going to spend some time
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with a friend.
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And then we were going
to cap it off by going to my
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mother's house.
00:01:53.96\00:01:54.56
She had just had her birthday,
four days prior to Saturday, and
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we hadn't seen her.
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And so that was the plan.
00:02:00.43\00:02:02.36
JOHN: So things re going
great, what, what happened later
00:02:02.36\00:02:05.26
on that evening?
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KAREN: As we drove out of our
particular development, we got
00:02:06.46\00:02:10.06
out into the main street,
which is called Gruesville.
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We headed on down Gruesville,
and he told me to pick the
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restaurant, and so, Elk Grove
is, at that time, was a much
00:02:16.00\00:02:19.43
smaller city than what
it is now, but we had a few
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restaurants.
00:02:22.20\00:02:23.70
We had Friday's, we had
Chili's, we had Red Robin.
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As we turned the corner, John,
my husband kind of sat back in
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his seat and he said, "[sigh]
Honey, this is gonna to be a
00:02:29.80\00:02:33.66
great year."
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And I said, "Really?"
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He said, "Yes."
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And I, that was like music to my
ears because we, we're a blended
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family, we had our struggles,
and for him to say, "Honey this
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is going to be a great year", it
was one of the best things that
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a wife could hear
from a husband, right?
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As we're continuing down on,
I saw another restaurant, but I
00:02:54.73\00:02:58.03
decided, "No, I'm a vegetarian,"
and I thought, "Probably not a
00:02:58.03\00:03:02.56
very big selection
of vegetarian food."
00:03:02.56\00:03:04.53
So we kept going.
00:03:04.53\00:03:05.80
And then I turned to my right
and I noticed this restaurant,
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it was a new
restaurant, a sports grill.
00:03:09.26\00:03:12.36
And I said, "Honey
how about Mandango's?"
00:03:12.36\00:03:15.06
And he said,
"What is Mandango's?"
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I said, "It's a
new sports restaurant."
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And he said, "Really?
00:03:19.46\00:03:20.23
Had you ever been there?"
00:03:20.23\00:03:20.96
And I said, "No."
00:03:20.96\00:03:22.83
And so he said, "Let's go!"
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And so I pulled into the parking
lot, it was pretty crowded, and
00:03:25.26\00:03:28.93
it was dark, so I parked on the
opposite side right in front of
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the Asian Market, and we hopped
out of the car, and walked into
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the restaurant.
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JOHN: A great evening.
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Things are looking good.
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It's going to be a great year.
00:03:40.43\00:03:43.23
You ended up where you ended up
sort of randomly, you could have
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been at any other, a
number of any other places...
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KAREN: That is true.
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JOHN: So you went in there
and you spent your evening.
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Things are looking good.
00:03:51.46\00:03:52.33
The future is looking bright.
00:03:52.33\00:03:54.76
And then a random
event took place...
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KAREN: Well when I got inside of
the restaurant, immediately my
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spirit didn't feel right.
00:03:59.83\00:04:02.26
I had, we had a wonderful
day, and spiritual things, and I
00:04:02.26\00:04:07.00
walked into the restaurant and
all I could hear was MUSIC, and
00:04:07.00\00:04:11.06
I could see the TV screens all
around the restaurant, and it
00:04:11.06\00:04:13.66
really wasn't what I
expected for a date night.
00:04:13.66\00:04:18.86
People laughing, drinking...and
I wanted to leave.
00:04:18.86\00:04:22.96
But as I turned and looked
at him, I noticed him looking at
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the TV screens.
00:04:26.40\00:04:27.70
And when I saw that I thought,
"You know, I don't want to mess
00:04:27.70\00:04:31.43
it up for him, I
don't want to be selfish."
00:04:31.43\00:04:34.10
And so, I didn't say anything
and he said, "Honey, there's a
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seat, there's a
table right over there."
00:04:36.86\00:04:38.63
And we walked and we sat down.
00:04:38.63\00:04:40.16
We ordered.
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He, um, was
really into the game.
00:04:42.10\00:04:44.93
More into the game than me, and
I was feeling a little jealous.
00:04:44.93\00:04:47.76
But I knew that we were going
to spend time over, his friend's
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name was Duane Whitherspoon, so
we were going to go to Duane's
00:04:51.90\00:04:56.06
house and we were going to see
my mother, so I figured I would
00:04:56.06\00:04:58.60
have enough quality time with
him by the time the date was
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over.
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JOHN: It started out like a
great night, it started out full
00:05:02.50\00:05:06.06
of promise.
00:05:06.06\00:05:07.06
Not just the night, but the
year, was going to be great.
00:05:07.06\00:05:11.63
But how quickly life
can take a dramatic turn.
00:05:11.63\00:05:17.03
And when life takes a dramatic
turn, what is it you do?
00:05:17.03\00:05:20.53
How do you respond?
00:05:20.53\00:05:21.76
How do you pick
yourself up and go again?
00:05:21.76\00:05:24.53
We'll find our when we
speak with Karen Johnson more,
00:05:24.53\00:05:27.73
in just a moment.
00:05:27.73\00:05:30.53
Perhaps something in
today's program has sparked your
00:05:30.53\00:05:32.83
interest in greater Bible study.
00:05:32.83\00:05:34.86
We invite you to visit our
website, itiswritten.com where
00:05:34.86\00:05:38.56
you will find a host
of inspirational resources
00:05:38.56\00:05:41.53
including free bible study
guides There is also a complete
00:05:41.53\00:05:44.56
archive of past television
programs and special video
00:05:44.56\00:05:47.43
seminars that you can
view online or download.
00:05:47.43\00:05:50.73
Discover more
at itiswritten.com.
00:05:50.73\00:05:55.46
JOHN: Karen Johnson and
her husband John Johnson were
00:05:55.46\00:05:58.53
enjoying a
perfect evening together.
00:05:58.53\00:06:01.60
John had told Karen, "Honey this
is going to be a great year."
00:06:01.60\00:06:05.53
They spent a great time together
at a restaurant, and then as you
00:06:05.53\00:06:10.76
do, people leave the restaurant.
00:06:10.76\00:06:12.46
KAREN: Yes.
00:06:12.46\00:06:14.26
JOHN: You'd mentioned how
you'd started to feel, in the
00:06:14.26\00:06:16.73
restaurant, not everything
was perfect, and I don't know if
00:06:16.73\00:06:18.83
that was a portend of things
to come, but when it was time to
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leave, walk us
through what happened next.
00:06:21.53\00:06:24.33
That's a very good
point, very good point.
00:06:24.33\00:06:26.46
Well, half way through the meal,
my husband says, "Uh, honey,
00:06:26.46\00:06:29.66
we're not going to
be able to see Mom."
00:06:29.66\00:06:32.50
And I thought, "Excuse me?"
00:06:32.50\00:06:34.23
He says, "We're not going to be
able to go over to Mom's house."
00:06:34.23\00:06:36.70
And I said, "Why?"
00:06:36.70\00:06:37.76
He said, "Because we
don't have enough time."
00:06:37.76\00:06:40.40
So I just immediately just asked
the waitress to come over and
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please give us a
ticket so that we can go.
00:06:43.13\00:06:45.73
JOHN: And life is
about to change ...
00:06:45.73\00:06:47.43
KAREN: Yes.
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JOHN: ...
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in the most terrible and drastic
way that a person could imagine.
00:06:48.83\00:06:53.86
I've read your book,
and it recounts the story.
00:06:53.86\00:06:58.13
You went to the parking lot, you
got into your car, sat in the
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driver's seat ready to drive.
00:07:02.03\00:07:04.20
John did not
immediately get into the car.
00:07:04.20\00:07:07.40
He was on the phone.
00:07:07.40\00:07:08.66
And while he was on the phone,
you heard him say something.
00:07:08.66\00:07:11.86
KAREN: I did.
00:07:11.86\00:07:14.40
I heard him say "spoon," and
when he said spoon, I thought oh
00:07:14.40\00:07:19.60
they're just joking back
and forth, because him and his
00:07:19.60\00:07:22.40
friend would always joke.
00:07:22.40\00:07:23.90
My husband was a jokester.
00:07:23.90\00:07:25.06
He joked about and
laughed about everything.
00:07:25.06\00:07:27.90
So he said "spoon" and I
thought, "Oh, okay, you know,
00:07:27.90\00:07:31.00
they're talkin'...and
then he said, "Man get that out
00:07:31.00\00:07:32.66
of my face."
00:07:32.66\00:07:32.96
And so when I heard him say,
"Man get that out of my face."
00:07:32.96\00:07:35.10
I thought maybe his friend
cracked a joke, or something and
00:07:35.10\00:07:37.96
he said, "Aw man
get that out," you know?
00:07:37.96\00:07:40.53
And then I heard,
"POW!"...and I just sat there.
00:07:40.53\00:07:46.33
JOHN: You didn't respond.
00:07:46.33\00:07:47.70
KAREN: I did not respond.
00:07:47.70\00:07:49.63
I ju, I just sat there.
00:07:49.63\00:07:52.20
What went through my mind, what
I can recall went through my
00:07:52.20\00:07:54.86
mind was
SouthSack is a little ways.
00:07:54.86\00:07:58.30
That happened out there,
that, that didn't happen here, I
00:07:58.30\00:08:01.33
didn't, you know.
00:08:01.33\00:08:02.23
So I heard it, but I just
discounted is as being maybe
00:08:02.23\00:08:05.86
something that happened way off
in the distance, so I just sat
00:08:05.86\00:08:08.20
there.
00:08:08.20\00:08:09.23
When I didn't hear anything, I
turned and I looked to my right.
00:08:09.23\00:08:13.73
And he wasn't there.
00:08:13.73\00:08:15.26
Again, I went back to my
forward position, just looking.
00:08:15.26\00:08:19.76
After a few seconds, and again
I don't know how long it was, I
00:08:19.76\00:08:22.96
turned and looked over to my
left, and when I looked to my
00:08:22.96\00:08:27.63
left [pause] I saw this man with
a shotgun on his shoulder, like
00:08:27.63\00:08:32.56
this, pointed up to the sky.
00:08:32.56\00:08:34.46
And when I saw that, immediately
everything started coming back,
00:08:34.46\00:08:38.56
uh, "spoon," "man get that out
of my face," the silence, and
00:08:38.56\00:08:43.00
then I saw the guy
walkin' with the shotgun.
00:08:43.00\00:08:44.53
Immedi "He's been shot."
00:08:44.53\00:08:45.86
He, he's been shot.
00:08:45.86\00:08:47.46
JOHN: And what did you do?
00:08:47.46\00:08:48.40
KAREN: Immediately I opened up a
car door to run around to find,
00:08:48.40\00:08:51.86
to find my husband.
00:08:51.86\00:08:53.60
When I opened up the car door,
he turns around-the murderer,
00:08:53.60\00:08:57.86
the person with the
shotgun-he turned around with...
00:08:57.86\00:09:01.13
like robotically, and he looked
right at me, in my direction.
00:09:01.13\00:09:05.40
And when he did, I ducked.
00:09:05.40\00:09:06.90
I ducked because I just knew,
one: he saw me, and two: he was
00:09:06.90\00:09:10.43
going to come
back and finish me off.
00:09:10.43\00:09:12.36
And what kept going through my
mind is, "I can identify him, he
00:09:12.36\00:09:15.93
saw me, he's going to come
back and he's gonna kill me."
00:09:15.93\00:09:18.66
So I was paranoid.
00:09:18.66\00:09:19.86
So I'm shaking, and I'm ducking
so that he won't see me, but I
00:09:19.86\00:09:24.16
see him.
00:09:24.16\00:09:25.46
I saw him the whole time.
00:09:25.46\00:09:26.93
And I'm just shaking, and
I truly believe that I was
00:09:26.93\00:09:29.83
praying.
00:09:29.83\00:09:31.63
I can't tell you what I was
saying, but I just, all I can
00:09:31.63\00:09:33.26
remember thinkin' is he's gonna
kill me, he's gonna kill me,
00:09:33.26\00:09:35.93
he's gonna kill me.
00:09:35.93\00:09:38.93
When he didn't see he, he turns
around again, very robotically,
00:09:38.93\00:09:41.53
and he starts
walking away from the car.
00:09:41.53\00:09:46.93
And when he did that I knew then
that that was the best time ever
00:09:46.93\00:09:51.76
to get out, and to find
out where my husband was.
00:09:51.76\00:09:54.76
So I immediately jumped out of
the car, and I ran around to the
00:09:54.76\00:10:00.53
passenger side, and I
could not believe what I saw.
00:10:00.53\00:10:03.16
My husband was laying there on
his back, with his eyes closed,
00:10:03.16\00:10:09.16
and all I could see was
his jugular vein pumping.
00:10:09.16\00:10:12.86
That's all I could see.
00:10:12.86\00:10:15.23
And all I could think is
if I if I just stay there,
00:10:15.23\00:10:18.10
he's gonna die.
00:10:18.10\00:10:19.43
I need to get help.
00:10:19.43\00:10:21.16
And I just ran, and I darted out
quickly, and I ran back into the
00:10:21.16\00:10:23.63
restaurant.
00:10:23.63\00:10:25.63
JOHN: Let me ask you.
00:10:25.63\00:10:27.36
At that moment, how much hope
did you have that John was going
00:10:27.36\00:10:32.66
to survive?
00:10:32.66\00:10:34.43
That John would live?
00:10:34.43\00:10:35.70
Or were you even
thinking about that?
00:10:35.70\00:10:37.36
KAREN: All I was
thinking about was getting help.
00:10:37.36\00:10:39.86
At that moment, I thought that
if I got help, he would live.
00:10:39.86\00:10:44.56
So, yes, I did
have some hope there.
00:10:44.56\00:10:48.23
But when I got inside
the restaurant, it was very
00:10:48.23\00:10:51.93
difficult for me to get the
attention of the patrons and/or
00:10:51.93\00:10:56.73
of the management there, because
of the music was so loud, the
00:10:56.73\00:11:01.50
TVs were blaring, people
were laughing...and I started
00:11:01.50\00:11:04.70
screaming out, I started
screaming and I started saying,
00:11:04.70\00:11:07.10
"My husband's been shot!"
00:11:07.10\00:11:09.06
And when I said, "My
husband's been shot!"
00:11:09.06\00:11:10.90
nobody heard me.
00:11:10.90\00:11:13.46
And so, I changed my
plea, and I said, "CALL 911!
00:11:13.46\00:11:18.80
My husband's been shot!"
00:11:18.80\00:11:20.90
And when I said, "CALL 911!"
00:11:20.90\00:11:23.23
There were two men that were
sitting at the bar, but they
00:11:23.23\00:11:26.06
heard me and they turned around
and they said, they came over to
00:11:26.06\00:11:29.23
me and they said, "What?"
00:11:29.23\00:11:30.33
I said, "My husband's been
shot," I said "There's a man
00:11:30.33\00:11:32.10
outside, he's
shooting, he's shooting.
00:11:32.10\00:11:34.60
My husband's been shot!"
00:11:34.60\00:11:37.63
They immediately ran outside
with me and I pointed to our car
00:11:37.63\00:11:41.40
and I said, "He's there."
00:11:41.40\00:11:42.46
You know,
showed them my husband.
00:11:42.46\00:11:43.76
But they could still hear the
guy was shooting in the air, and
00:11:43.76\00:11:46.76
you could hear round after
round going off in the air.
00:11:46.76\00:11:51.26
And they could
hear the shooting.
00:11:51.26\00:11:55.50
And after we were out there I
told them, "I'm gonna," I took
00:11:55.50\00:11:58.03
off, and told them I
was going to run back to
00:11:58.03\00:11:59.86
my husband's side.
00:11:59.86\00:12:00.86
And they said, "
Ma'am, no you can't go."
00:12:00.86\00:12:02.46
And I said, "Why?"
00:12:02.46\00:12:03.33
And they said,
"Because it's too dangerous."
00:12:03.33\00:12:04.73
I said, "But he needs me."
00:12:04.73\00:12:06.40
They says, "No ma'am,
you need to go back inside."
00:12:06.40\00:12:08.83
And I was like, "Why, why, why?
00:12:08.83\00:12:09.56
He needs me!"
00:12:09.56\00:12:11.73
However, the Lord knew that
we were going to be there that
00:12:11.73\00:12:14.83
night.
00:12:14.83\00:12:15.56
He knew we were going to
be there, and so there were
00:12:15.56\00:12:18.03
Christians in that restaurant.
00:12:18.03\00:12:19.33
There were believers, there
were "prayin' people" in that
00:12:19.33\00:12:21.80
restaurant.
00:12:21.80\00:12:23.80
And they started coming around
me and they started laying their
00:12:23.80\00:12:26.20
hands on me, and they started
comforting me, praying for me,
00:12:26.20\00:12:29.76
telling me...just comforting me.
00:12:29.76\00:12:33.16
JOHN: And it wasn't long after
that, you received word, or it
00:12:33.16\00:12:38.46
was inferred to you, that your
husband wasn't going to make it.
00:12:38.46\00:12:42.50
KAREN: It was inferred to me.
00:12:42.50\00:12:44.70
Later, minutes later, I guess
maybe a half hour or so later, I
00:12:44.70\00:12:47.53
don't know, this other
lady walked up to me, she was a
00:12:47.53\00:12:50.10
nurse, and she walked up to me
and she stood right in my face,
00:12:50.10\00:12:53.56
I remember this and she said,
um, "Ma'am, I tried to give him
00:12:53.56\00:12:56.66
CPR, but they wouldn't let me."
00:12:56.66\00:12:58.33
And she just did this...
00:12:58.33\00:13:01.83
and she walked away.
00:13:01.83\00:13:06.10
And when she did that, I knew.
00:13:06.10\00:13:07.76
When she did this...I
said, "He's not gonna make it."
00:13:07.76\00:13:14.03
JOHN: What do you do?
00:13:14.03\00:13:15.50
You're full of hope.
00:13:15.50\00:13:17.13
This year is going
to be a great year.
00:13:17.13\00:13:19.50
And that very night,
randomly, everything ends.
00:13:19.50\00:13:25.53
And the life of the one you love
most is tragically, senselessly,
00:13:25.53\00:13:30.23
and brutally ended.
00:13:30.23\00:13:32.50
And then, you've got to
go ahead, and make a choice.
00:13:32.50\00:13:37.86
Am I going to live my life, and
put the pieces back together, or
00:13:37.86\00:13:42.23
is this going
to destroy me also?
00:13:42.23\00:13:44.76
Karen was
confronted by that choice.
00:13:44.76\00:13:46.83
Let's find out in just a moment,
how she responded when the
00:13:46.83\00:13:50.36
question was asked of her.
00:13:50.36\00:13:54.16
In Matthew 4:4, the Word of
God says, "Man shall not live by
00:13:54.16\00:13:59.16
bread alone but by every word
that proceeds from the mouth of
00:13:59.16\00:14:02.86
God.
00:14:02.86\00:14:03.83
Every Word is a one minute
Bible-based daily devotional
00:14:03.83\00:14:06.60
presented by pastor
John Bradshaw, and designed
00:14:06.60\00:14:09.93
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00:14:09.93\00:14:14.00
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00:14:14.00\00:14:17.83
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00:14:17.83\00:14:19.46
Receive a daily spiritual boost.
00:14:19.46\00:14:21.53
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00:14:21.53\00:14:28.13
JOHN: On March 25,
2006, Karen Johnson's life
00:14:28.13\00:14:31.36
was changed forever.
00:14:31.36\00:14:33.23
She and her husband John
had enjoyed an evening together,
00:14:33.23\00:14:36.70
when John's life was tragically
and brutally cut short by a man
00:14:36.70\00:14:42.16
high on methamphetamines,
wielding a shotgun and carrying
00:14:42.16\00:14:46.10
a Satanic Bible.
00:14:46.10\00:14:48.66
I don't think it's very hard for
you and I to imagine the sorts
00:14:48.66\00:14:52.60
of emotions Karen felt
after that awful event.
00:14:52.60\00:14:58.16
Anger, I don't know.
00:14:58.16\00:15:00.26
Malice, bitterness.
00:15:00.26\00:15:01.86
We can imagine these things.
00:15:01.86\00:15:04.20
But Karen was
confronted with a choice.
00:15:04.20\00:15:06.43
Do you let your life fall apart?
00:15:06.43\00:15:08.60
Do you fall into a pit of
despair and bitterness and hate?
00:15:08.60\00:15:12.70
Or somehow, do you try to piece
your life back together again,
00:15:12.70\00:15:17.70
and go on with your head held
high and your dignity in tact?
00:15:17.70\00:15:23.50
Karen, that's the decision
you were confronted with.
00:15:23.50\00:15:27.00
What was your response to that
decision, or to that question
00:15:27.00\00:15:30.46
when it was asked of you?
00:15:30.46\00:15:31.73
KAREN: Yeah...it was very
difficult, of course [clears
00:15:31.73\00:15:36.50
throat], it was numerous things
that continued to happen as I
00:15:36.50\00:15:41.40
was grieving
through the process.
00:15:41.40\00:15:43.26
One of the most difficult things
was for me to be able to come to
00:15:43.26\00:15:47.06
terms, come to grips, that my
life has changed forever, I felt
00:15:47.06\00:15:51.76
so displaced, I felt like
someone who I could relate to
00:15:51.76\00:15:55.53
Joseph being
thrown into the pit.
00:15:55.53\00:15:57.80
I could relate to Job when
he lost everything just in the
00:15:57.80\00:16:01.53
twinkling of an eye [snaps
finger], it was just all gone.
00:16:01.53\00:16:05.46
Um, those stories, believe it or
not, John, helped me somehow to,
00:16:05.46\00:16:08.36
uh, bring perspective to
what I was dealing with myself.
00:16:08.36\00:16:15.93
I couldn't even breathe, I
couldn't even imagine living
00:16:15.93\00:16:20.46
past my next breath.
00:16:20.46\00:16:22.43
It was just that hard.
00:16:22.43\00:16:24.00
It was that difficult.
00:16:24.00\00:16:26.33
But I knew that I didn't, you
know, I didn't want to die, and
00:16:26.33\00:16:30.03
I knew I had to put my
life back together again.
00:16:30.03\00:16:32.43
JOHN: Now as a Christian, you're
supposed to be able to lean on
00:16:32.43\00:16:34.90
Jesus, but as a Christian, we
go through this life thinking,
00:16:34.90\00:16:39.33
"Well God is going to protect
me, God is going to keep harm
00:16:39.33\00:16:42.73
from coming to me.
00:16:42.73\00:16:44.53
Yet in His ...
00:16:44.53\00:16:46.46
whatever we're going to call
it providence, or wisdom, or
00:16:46.46\00:16:48.93
all-knowing-ness, God
allowed this tragedy to strike.
00:16:48.93\00:16:52.70
Were there moments you
were, were angry with God?
00:16:52.70\00:16:55.10
KAREN: No.
00:16:55.10\00:16:57.76
JOHN: No anger with God?
00:16:57.76\00:16:58.53
KAREN: No.
00:16:58.53\00:16:59.73
JOHN: Which is a
remarkable thing.
00:16:59.73\00:17:01.33
KAREN: No.
00:17:01.33\00:17:02.73
JOHN: What kind of conversations
did you have with God?
00:17:02.73\00:17:04.60
KAREN: "Why?"
00:17:04.60\00:17:05.33
I needed to know why.
00:17:05.33\00:17:06.20
I wanted to know why, I needed
to know why, but I wasn't angry
00:17:06.20\00:17:09.33
because I know that we wrestle
not with flesh and blood, but
00:17:09.33\00:17:12.40
against principalities
and powers and all of that.
00:17:12.40\00:17:15.20
I knew that.
00:17:15.20\00:17:17.23
I know about this great
controversy between good and
00:17:17.23\00:17:19.73
evil, between Christ and Satan.
00:17:19.73\00:17:21.63
I knew that.
00:17:21.63\00:17:22.93
So somehow, I realized
that I was a part of this great
00:17:22.93\00:17:26.23
controversy.
00:17:26.23\00:17:28.40
Now, what do I do with this?
00:17:28.40\00:17:30.23
And so, I proposed in my heart
to turn evil into good but it
00:17:30.23\00:17:34.70
wasn't easy and
it was a process.
00:17:34.70\00:17:37.80
JOHN: It had to have
been a monumental struggle.
00:17:37.80\00:17:39.26
KAREN: All I wanted to do was
to bring glory and honor to God.
00:17:39.26\00:17:42.83
That's what I wanted to do.
00:17:42.83\00:17:45.53
.The funeral, just at the
funeral, I wanted to put my
00:17:45.53\00:17:49.73
husband away in
decency and in order.
00:17:49.73\00:17:52.00
And it was a
decision that I had to make.
00:17:52.00\00:17:57.30
My sister said
something to me, she says.
00:17:57.30\00:17:58.90
"You know, you come from a very
strong family" and so I thought
00:17:58.90\00:18:02.66
that, you know, and then again
I thought about my relationship
00:18:02.66\00:18:04.93
with Christ, and things like
that so I think all of that and
00:18:04.93\00:18:08.10
the people that
rallied around me helped.
00:18:08.10\00:18:12.40
JOHN: So instead of just pushing
you away from God, like it would
00:18:12.40\00:18:14.23
for so many people, this event
drew you, urged you even closer
00:18:14.23\00:18:21.30
to God.
00:18:21.30\00:18:22.16
KAREN: More than ever before.
00:18:22.16\00:18:22.96
JOHN: And you were able to
find strength from God in a
00:18:22.96\00:18:26.40
senseless, terrible situation.
00:18:26.40\00:18:28.80
KAREN: I was.
00:18:28.80\00:18:30.90
And, as I said, the big
question for me was "Why?"
00:18:30.90\00:18:33.06
Why John?
00:18:33.06\00:18:36.30
Why me?
00:18:36.30\00:18:37.56
Why now?
00:18:37.56\00:18:39.10
Why did this have to happen?
00:18:39.10\00:18:40.36
Why?
00:18:40.36\00:18:41.80
And he revealed a lot of things
to me, over the year, over the
00:18:41.80\00:18:45.00
years, he revealed a lot of
stuff to me, but that was the
00:18:45.00\00:18:48.66
big question so I wasn't angry,
I just wanted to know "why" and
00:18:48.66\00:18:51.10
it drew me closer to Him.
00:18:51.10\00:18:53.33
I turned into him instead
of turning away from him.
00:18:53.33\00:18:56.46
JOHN: Something you just said
and it comes out in your book,
00:18:56.46\00:18:58.53
"Covered and Kept", KAREN: A ha.
00:18:58.53\00:19:01.13
JOHN: Forgiveness is a process.
00:19:01.13\00:19:02.16
KAREN: Yes.
00:19:02.16\00:19:03.23
JOHN: So you were able to bring
yourself to a healthy place.
00:19:03.23\00:19:07.63
KAREN: Yes.
00:19:07.63\00:19:08.56
JOHN: But it didn't
happen just like that.
00:19:08.56\00:19:10.36
KAREN: No, it did not.
00:19:10.36\00:19:11.16
No, not at all.
00:19:11.16\00:19:12.36
One of the things ..
00:19:12.36\00:19:13.30
I am into health and fitness,
and I follow the eight laws of
00:19:13.30\00:19:18.73
health, and I teach you know,
health reform to my students and
00:19:18.73\00:19:21.63
my classes, and I had to
put all of this together.
00:19:21.63\00:19:24.36
When it happened, I
did not want to exercise.
00:19:24.36\00:19:28.36
I had lost 16 pounds
in a week and a half.
00:19:28.36\00:19:31.63
I was very weak.
00:19:31.63\00:19:36.63
I was very distraught but I knew
that I had to start practicing
00:19:36.63\00:19:38.23
again the principles that I
was teaching and preaching to my
00:19:38.23\00:19:39.83
students.
00:19:39.83\00:19:41.43
JOHN: And if you were ever going
to be whole, if you were ever
00:19:41.43\00:19:43.83
going to be complete, if
you were ever going to be a
00:19:43.83\00:19:45.83
functioning successful
Christian, KAREN: Yes.
00:19:45.83\00:19:48.43
JOHN: You were going to have
to make a decision regarding
00:19:48.43\00:19:51.73
forgiveness and, in just a
moment, Karen is going to talk
00:19:51.73\00:19:55.96
to us and tell me how she was
able to wrestle with the idea of
00:19:55.96\00:20:01.90
forgiving the man who murdered
her husband, and she will tell
00:20:01.90\00:20:06.50
us whether or not
she was able to forgive.
00:20:06.50\00:20:08.53
I'll be right back.
00:20:08.53\00:20:10.73
If there was something in
today's program that you'd like
00:20:10.73\00:20:12.66
to study in greater depth
and detail, visit our website
00:20:12.66\00:20:16.20
itiswritten.com where you will
discover additional spiritual
00:20:16.20\00:20:20.16
resources, along with free
Bible study guides on a host of
00:20:20.16\00:20:23.16
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00:20:23.16\00:20:24.36
Visit itiswritten.com today.
00:20:24.36\00:20:28.33
JOHN; Karen, as a Christian,
you are going to start wrestling
00:20:28.33\00:20:31.00
with the question of
forgiveness KAREN: A ha.
00:20:31.00\00:20:33.96
JOHN: Even forgiving the man who
brutally took the life of your
00:20:33.96\00:20:38.86
husband, KAREN: Yeah.
00:20:38.86\00:20:40.00
JOHN: And as you wrestled with
that, God brought you to this
00:20:40.00\00:20:41.96
place, to the
cemetery and spoke to you here.
00:20:41.96\00:20:43.73
KAREN. Yes He did.
00:20:43.73\00:20:44.60
Yes He did.
00:20:44.60\00:20:45.73
JOHN: How did he do that?
00:20:45.73\00:20:46.96
KAREN: Through his Word.
00:20:46.96\00:20:48.70
Speaking to heart.
00:20:48.70\00:20:49.83
I just kept being pulled here
and I couldn't understand why.
00:20:49.83\00:20:54.60
I would go to an appointment
with my mental health therapist,
00:20:54.60\00:20:57.73
and right after that
appointment, I would come right
00:20:57.73\00:21:00.60
here to the cemetery, and I
would stand here, right where we
00:21:00.60\00:21:04.40
are standing, and I know he is
dead, in the grave, I know that.
00:21:04.40\00:21:09.30
But I was talking to
the Lord, I was praying.
00:21:09.30\00:21:11.93
And I was asking him to show me
how to forgive, and John, I had
00:21:11.93\00:21:16.86
more than one
person to forgive as well.
00:21:16.86\00:21:19.66
But it was here at the
cemetery that I was able to find
00:21:19.66\00:21:21.60
that peace.
00:21:21.60\00:21:23.26
JOHN; And Karen, it was in the
courtroom, the day that the man
00:21:23.26\00:21:25.10
who murdered your
husband was sentenced.
00:21:25.10\00:21:26.66
KAREN: Yeah.
00:21:26.66\00:21:27.50
JOHN: God gave you the
opportunity, impressed upon your
00:21:27.50\00:21:29.36
heart, to do something that
most of us would find absolutely
00:21:29.36\00:21:32.26
remarkable.
00:21:32.26\00:21:32.96
How did that happen?
00:21:32.96\00:21:33.93
KAREN; Well, again, I did not
know what I was going to say and
00:21:33.93\00:21:37.93
my girlfriend prayed and said,
Let's allow Jesus, the Lord, to
00:21:37.93\00:21:42.20
put the words in your mouth.
00:21:42.20\00:21:43.86
And everything was orchestrated
where I would be the only person
00:21:43.86\00:21:47.66
who would speak on that day
to share with the judge, the
00:21:47.66\00:21:51.73
courtroom and the
defendant how I was impacted.
00:21:51.73\00:21:56.23
I did not know where I was
going to go, I started off with
00:21:56.23\00:21:58.76
independence, but in the end,
I looked him in the eye, the
00:21:58.76\00:22:02.63
murderer, and I
told him I forgave him.
00:22:02.63\00:22:06.03
I went on to tell him
that I do not condone ...
00:22:06.03\00:22:08.90
don't get it wrong ...I don't
condone with you did, but, I
00:22:08.90\00:22:14.13
said the second
time, I forgive you.
00:22:14.13\00:22:16.96
Now, up until that time he
showed no remorse whatsoever and
00:22:16.96\00:22:22.16
that was the first reaction, the
first reaction we got to show us
00:22:22.16\00:22:27.76
that there was, that he had
somewhat of a heart, you know,
00:22:27.76\00:22:32.53
and he said thank you.
00:22:32.53\00:22:34.50
Not audibly, but with
his lips, he said thank you.
00:22:34.50\00:22:37.46
JOHN; I read in your book,
Covered and Kept hhe said thank
00:22:37.46\00:22:39.66
you to you not
one time, but twice.
00:22:39.66\00:22:41.50
KAREN: Twice.
00:22:41.50\00:22:42.53
But twice.
00:22:42.53\00:22:46.40
JOHN: I know you are going
to understand what I mean when I
00:22:46.40\00:22:48.30
say this.
00:22:48.30\00:22:49.63
If there is anyone in this world
who did not deserve forgiveness,
00:22:49.63\00:22:53.90
it's the man who
murdered your husband.
00:22:53.90\00:22:56.00
He was in the wrong.
00:22:56.00\00:22:57.36
We could go through a
whole long list of things.
00:22:57.36\00:22:59.23
KAREN: Yeah.
00:22:59.23\00:23:00.36
JOHN: From a human point
of view, he did not deserve
00:23:00.36\00:23:02.06
forgiveness.
00:23:02.06\00:23:03.43
KAREN: Um hum.
00:23:03.43\00:23:04.16
JOHN: But that is not
the standpoint you were
00:23:04.16\00:23:05.73
operating from.
00:23:05.73\00:23:06.10
KAREN: It was not.
00:23:06.10\00:23:06.96
It was not.
00:23:06.96\00:23:07.66
And I know now and I knew then
why God kept sending me here to
00:23:07.66\00:23:11.73
this cemetery because every time
as I drove around here crying,
00:23:11.73\00:23:16.53
sad, grief, remorseful,
depressed, I was playing Via
00:23:16.53\00:23:21.06
Dolorosa, as a matter of fact,
Jaime Jorge, I would listen to
00:23:21.06\00:23:24.50
that, tears rolling down my face
and what I could see was Jesus
00:23:24.50\00:23:28.10
hanging on the cross.
00:23:28.10\00:23:29.90
That's what he showed me.
00:23:29.90\00:23:31.16
That's what I could see.
00:23:31.16\00:23:32.70
He didn't die just for me and
you but he died for the Aaron
00:23:32.70\00:23:35.66
Duns of the world, those people
that are murdering and do wrong.
00:23:35.66\00:23:40.53
And again, there are
consequences to our actions and
00:23:40.53\00:23:43.23
I wanted him to understand
that but also I wanted him to
00:23:43.23\00:23:46.13
understand that he has an
opportunity to give his life to
00:23:46.13\00:23:48.73
Christ if he chose and that was
the message that I believe God
00:23:48.73\00:23:54.00
wanted me to share
with him at that time.
00:23:54.00\00:23:55.50
JOHN: That's the
message of grace.
00:23:55.50\00:23:57.43
The same mercy that God
has shown sinners like me.
00:23:57.43\00:24:00.96
KAREN; Yes.
00:24:00.96\00:24:03.80
JOHN; You then extended
and demonstrated to this man,
00:24:03.80\00:24:08.83
guilty, sentenced to death.
00:24:08.83\00:24:11.13
KAREN; Yes, sentenced
to death, that's right.
00:24:11.13\00:24:13.60
JOHN: But you showed him grace,
forgiveness, pardon undeserved.
00:24:13.60\00:24:17.26
KAREN: Yes.
00:24:17.26\00:24:19.46
JOHN: That is one of the
powerful things about your
00:24:19.46\00:24:21.13
story, how it played out
down at this end of the story.
00:24:21.13\00:24:24.33
KAREN: YES.
00:24:24.33\00:24:25.43
JOHN: It mirrors what
God has done for me and you.
00:24:25.43\00:24:27.36
What God has done for everybody.
00:24:27.36\00:24:28.50
KAREN: Yes.
00:24:28.50\00:24:29.26
Yes.
00:24:29.26\00:24:30.13
I agree.
00:24:30.13\00:24:31.20
JOHN; Thanks for
sharing your story with me.
00:24:31.20\00:24:32.70
KAREN; And thank you.
00:24:32.70\00:24:33.43
JOHN; Thank you so very much.
00:24:33.43\00:24:34.16
KAREN; Yes.
00:24:34.16\00:24:35.76
JOHN; You know friend,
God is a God of great grace.
00:24:35.76\00:24:38.93
A God of great mercy.
00:24:38.93\00:24:40.53
He is a God of justice,
but he is a God who is good.
00:24:40.53\00:24:44.86
There are people in this world
and you are one of them who do
00:24:44.86\00:24:49.30
not deserve forgiveness.
00:24:49.30\00:24:51.30
Who do not deserve goodness.
00:24:51.30\00:24:53.30
Who do not forgive grace.
00:24:53.30\00:24:57.16
But God, through his Son Jesus
Christ, has come to this earth
00:24:57.16\00:25:01.83
to offer us pardon, forgiveness,
cleansing, and wholeness, even
00:25:01.83\00:25:07.46
though we do not deserve it.
00:25:07.46\00:25:10.23
God has offered that to us.
00:25:10.23\00:25:12.90
Let's pray together now and
thank God for that goodness, for
00:25:12.90\00:25:17.16
that grace.
00:25:17.16\00:25:18.53
Let's pray together.
00:25:18.53\00:25:20.00
Our father in heaven, we can
just say thank you today because
00:25:20.00\00:25:23.23
you are good when we are not you
are great and good and right but
00:25:23.23\00:25:29.46
I thank you that for the sinners
of this world you offer grace,
00:25:29.46\00:25:34.66
you offer pardon,
you offer forgiveness.
00:25:34.66\00:25:37.06
We don't deserve it but as Karen
has demonstrated, grace is so
00:25:37.06\00:25:41.90
powerful when it is not deserved
and Lord, I wish that it wi have
00:25:41.90\00:25:46.13
a powerful
affect in our lives now.
00:25:46.13\00:25:49.83
Bless us please, for your
honor and glory, in Jesus name.
00:25:49.83\00:25:53.56
Perhaps our program today has
touched your heart and impressed
00:25:53.56\00:26:01.96
you with a personal
need for deeper Bible study.
00:26:01.96\00:26:04.90
Do you desire to listen to
God and follow where he leads?
00:26:04.90\00:26:08.30
We've got a wonderful resource
that can help you do that in a
00:26:08.30\00:26:11.93
systemic way, the
Discover Bible Guides.
00:26:11.93\00:26:14.86
These study guides will take
you through the essential truths
00:26:14.86\00:26:17.40
taught in Scripture.
00:26:17.40\00:26:18.50
They give you the big
picture showing how it all fits
00:26:18.50\00:26:21.23
together.
00:26:21.23\00:26:22.13
The Discover Bible Guides are a
wonderful way for you to become
00:26:22.13\00:26:25.23
grounded in the Word of God and
to see how Jesus Christ relates
00:26:25.23\00:26:29.23
to all the areas of our lives.
00:26:29.23\00:26:31.33
So please call or write us and
the Discover Bible Guides will
00:26:31.33\00:26:35.10
be on their way to you and
the entire course is absolutely
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free.
00:26:38.00\00:26:38.96
For even easier access, you
can obtain these wonderful Bible
00:26:38.96\00:26:41.96
lessons on-line at our website.
00:26:41.96\00:26:44.30
Here's the information you need.
00:26:44.30\00:26:49.16
You may request today's offer,
The Discover Bible Guides, by
00:26:49.16\00:26:52.36
calling our toll free
number 1 800 253 3000.
00:26:52.36\00:26:55.80
Call right now.
00:26:55.80\00:26:56.90
The operator needs only your
name, address and phone number,
00:26:56.90\00:26:59.23
plus the name of today's offer,
The Discover Bible Guides.
00:26:59.23\00:27:02.60
Lines are open 24 hours daily.
00:27:02.60\00:27:04.30
They may be busy so keep trying.
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You may also request today's
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Written, Box O,
Thousand Oaks, CA 91359.
00:27:09.63\00:27:13.83
Our free offer is for an
address in North America only.
00:27:13.83\00:27:17.73
The Discover Bible Guides are
also available on the Internet.
00:27:17.73\00:27:21.03
Just visit our
website itiswritten.com.
00:27:21.03\00:27:24.30
Also on line is a complete
script of today's program.
00:27:24.30\00:27:27.46
If you wish to help the
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Written, your tax deductible
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address or you can make a gift
on line at itiswritten.com Thank
00:27:33.10\00:27:37.30
you for your letters
and continued support.
00:27:37.30\00:27:40.23
Our toll free
number is 1800 253 3000
00:27:40.23\00:27:43.70
and our web
address itiswritten.com
00:27:43.70\00:27:47.50
Thank you for joining me
today and until we meet again
00:27:47.50\00:27:49.90
next time, please
remember, It is Written
00:27:49.90\00:27:53.30
man shall not live by
bread alone but by every word
00:27:53.30\00:27:57.56
that proceeds
from the mouth of God.
00:27:57.56\00:28:01.03