The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to sexuality.
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Parents are cautioned
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this
presentation may be too candid
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for younger audiences.
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Welcome to Intimate Clarity.
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I'm Jason Bradley,
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and I'm here with
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer.
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And she is a licensed
professional counselor.
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And today we're
going to be discussing
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a sensitive topic,
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but it's a
conversation we need to have.
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You know, is
adultery the end of marriage,
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or can it be worked out,
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or what are your
thoughts on that?
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Well, yes to both
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because each
situation is different.
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But let me go, like I
often do to God's ideal model.
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God designed us
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to have ideally
one partner for life.
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And what we find in the research
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is that when
people follow God's plan,
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they have a number
of a host of benefits
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they come to them.
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Let me give you some examples,
better partner communication,
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better relationships
satisfaction, this is all been,
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you know,
quantified in research,
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better health,
better mental health
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and even a better love life.
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This research comes out
of Brigham Young University
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which is a Mormon University.
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And the Mormons, you
know, often we think polygamy,
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but that's not
really a correct association
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'cause it's
really only the extreme,
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you know, groups
that are polygamous,
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but the majority of them
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are just really
family oriented people.
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I've met some of
them, I've talked to them.
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And Brigham Young University
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has a lot of really
good family research.
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And so they've identified
the benefits of God's plan
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for monogamy for the human race.
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So let's get into some of
the, you know, brain chemicals.
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I like to talk
about brain chemicals.
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There's a hormonal
basis for monogamy.
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Oxytocin is released
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by the pituitary
during sexual intimacy
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and during childbirth,
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a number of other family events,
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there's lots of oxytocin.
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Oxytocin is a bonding hormone.
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There are prairie
voles, it's a type of rodent.
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Prairie voles? Voles.
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Okay.
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That's a type of rodent
that happens to be monogamous.
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Most animals aren't monogamous,
you know, they're animals.
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But there are some monogamous,
Geese are monogamous too.
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It's very interesting,
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they're more
monogamous than people.
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I didn't know. Yeah.
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And so these
monogamous prairie voles
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if they are
bonded with their mate,
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they will
actually become hostile
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toward other females.
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So they'll really like nature
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is working to keep them faithful
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to their wife.
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And maybe something
like that happens with men,
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I don't know.
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But my point is that by raising
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that oxytocin in
that bonding experience,
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God facilitates faithfulness.
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Another interesting fact
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is when a woman
becomes pregnant,
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her husband's
vasopressin levels rise.
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Now we think the
reason that they rise is
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because the woman
who puts out pheromones
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which are undetectible sense,
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and the man picks
them up unconsciously,
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and they cause
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a biological
mechanism in his body,
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and his
vasopressin levels go up.
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What's the significance of that?
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Well, vasopressin is
called the monogamy hormone
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because it counters
the effect of testosterone
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which is called
the prowling hormone.
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Testosterone is
responsible for the sex drive
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in both males and females
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and obviously men
have higher levels of it
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and men are more inclined
to cheat on their wives.
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But when she becomes pregnant,
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God puts all of
these chemicals in motion
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to try to keep
that man faithful.
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So what happens with
vasopressin increases,
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it encounters testosterone,
cuts down on the sex drive,
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and he's more likely
to stay home with wife.
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Isn't that something?
Oh, that's a good thing.
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And also men gain empathy weight
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when their wife
becomes pregnant.
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Really, they
gain empathy weight?
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They do.
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And interestingly
enough, when a man gains weight,
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typically he
gains in the stomach,
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in the abdominal area,
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and there's an
inverse relationship
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between abdominal fat
in males and sex drive.
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So the more abdominal
fat, the lower the sex drive.
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So on many fronts
God is trying to keep
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that man home with his wife.
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So that's good timing.
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So he stays...
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In other words,
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God orchestrates things
down to the brain chemicals
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and down to the hormones
to help us follow His plan.
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We still rebel against it.
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But He does everything
He can do to make it easier
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to follow it.
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But still 15-18% of people cheat
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with men twice
as likely to cheat.
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No offense,
Jason, but it's fact.
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Men are more often,
you know, unfaithful.
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We don't have to
become a statistic.
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And you don't want
to become a statistic.
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You don't want to become
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the negative
side of the statistic.
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And you don't have to.
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We think the genetic
wiring may be at play.
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In science they've
divided men, they classified men
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into two
categories, dads and cads.
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And they think that men
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may be born with
certain tendencies
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toward
unfaithfulness more than others.
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But even if you are
born with those tendencies,
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you still don't have
to become a statistic.
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That's right.
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Yeah, you don't have
to act on that, yeah.
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You still have a
choice and that's the thing
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we need to remember is there
is nature, there is nurture,
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and there's also
this amazing thing
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called free will.
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And you can say no
to nature and nurture
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when it's pointing you
in the wrong direction.
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It's possible by connecting
our will to the divine will
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and the Holy Spirit filling
us and giving us God's power.
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Absolutely. Amen.
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So females are
apparent more responsive
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to cultural
influences as pertains
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to their level of promiscuity.
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So the more of
the culture approves
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of promiscuity
or cheating in women
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the more they are likely
to engage in that behavior.
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Women are very susceptible
to environmental influences.
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And maybe...
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Their numbers are
probably raising today
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with all that's going on.
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That's exactly
what I was going to say
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is there are more
teen girls having sex today
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because I think
of the environment
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socially, the social environment
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that they are in.
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Most world
religions skew adultery,
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like it's pretty
universally understood to be,
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even if it's like,
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you know, other
things are approved
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of in that society,
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most world
religions and societies
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recognize
cheating as morally wrong.
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And that it can be
very shame inducing.
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But here's the
crazy thing is that
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that shame can actually
become an enticement factor,
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that secrecy can
drive a person into secrecy.
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So what we see is
that secrecy factor adds
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a little extra thrill.
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And people can become
addicted to hiding things.
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You know, I
remember seeing this story
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about this famous actress
who was obviously wealthy
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because she was
a famous actress,
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a shoplifting,
getting caught shoplifting.
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Mind blowing, she
didn't need that stuff.
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You know, she had all the
money in the world to buy it.
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But there's the
thrill involved in the chase.
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And that unfortunately
enters into this adultery issue.
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We see this evidence in websites
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like Ashley Madison
and these types of websites
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where people
just literally hook up
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with strangers.
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So another question that arises
and I'm just kind of running
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through my bullet points here
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but is pornography
a form of adultery?
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How would you weigh in on
that? I would say yes, it is.
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Really? How so.
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It's not a person.
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It's not a person,
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but you're
lusting after the person
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that's on the
other end of the screen.
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That's right. I think
so. It is a form of adultery.
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I would say that it's,
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you know, that
if a wife discovers
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that her husband
is using adultery
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or using pornography
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which is usually
the way it happens,
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sometimes it goes the other way.
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I want to be fair.
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But I don't know
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that's immediate
divorce court material
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I think that that man
could overcome that addiction.
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And that there should be given
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some time for
that in most cases.
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However, I think a pornography
that is engaged in addictively
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for a long period of time
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without that
individual doing sufficient work
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and making sufficient effort
to deal with that addiction
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that would
constitute adultery in grounds,
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in my opinion
grounds for divorce.
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You know, Solomon said,
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"Drink water
from your own cistern,
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running water from your own well
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should your streams
overflow in the streets."
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If only men would realize
that their sexual capital
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is a gift from God
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and shouldn't be wasted in
relationships and in context
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where it causes destruction
and breaks God's plan,
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breaks with God's
plan for human sexuality.
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If men could only
realize that and embrace that,
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we'd all be
better off, wouldn't we?
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Yeah. So what are your thoughts?
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Well, I think that
God's divine design
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is what we should follow.
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I feel like, we
should be focused
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on following God's plan,
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and keeping sex in the confines
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of a marriage
between a man and a woman.
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And adultery constitute,
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you know, Jesus
only gave permission
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for divorce in
the case of adultery
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so it must be pretty serious.
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I think the reason is
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because you're
effectively marrying
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that other person in a sense
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not in the complete
sense of marrying them
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as a public ceremony,
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but you are uniting
with them as a spouse
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when you commit
adultery with them.
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And so in a sense
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you've already
ended the marriage.
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And I think Jesus said
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that because it's very difficult
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to recover from adultery.
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And it goes against
everything from the beginning,
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you know, the one man,
one woman principle like,
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you know,
forming that relationship
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being married to
one woman, one spouse.
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Now oftentimes women don't have,
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if the man is cheating
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and he's
providing for the family
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and she's caring
for children at home,
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she may be in a
situation where she doesn't have
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even the ability
to end that marriage.
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And that's part of the
reason that in the western world
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we've started to work things
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to where a man has
to support a woman,
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you know, because we assume
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that she's been
investing in the children.
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And there are accommodations
for situations like that.
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But there are still situations
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where that woman doesn't
have the resources to break
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that marriage and
continue her life alone.
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And that's a tragic situation
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we need to come around
those women and really,
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you know, love them.
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I think about a
couple that I counseled.
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There was everything
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they could go wrong in
the marriage went wrong,
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there was domestic violence,
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there was
unfaithfulness, there was,
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you know, just court
orders, and all kinds of stuff.
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And this couple would come
week after week and seek help.
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And I would look at them
and I would think you guys,
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you know, you've
been through a lot.
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But they kept coming.
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And I would say to the husband,
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you know, when you learn
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what servant
leadership really is,
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you're going to
experience a conversion
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and you're going
to love her the way
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she needs to be loved.
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And I would say that
to him over and over,
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it felt like it was...
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He fell asleep
in a session once.
00:11:18.67\00:11:20.01
I mean he was just
so checked out the sky,
00:11:20.04\00:11:22.11
but I kept saying
that over and over again.
00:11:22.14\00:11:24.31
And then I would
get the woman alone
00:11:24.35\00:11:25.75
and this woman had been through
00:11:25.78\00:11:27.85
so much in her marriage
that her doctor told her,
00:11:27.88\00:11:30.95
you divorce him or
I won't see you again.
00:11:30.99\00:11:33.62
I mean, her
caregivers were angry at her
00:11:33.66\00:11:36.89
for staying with him.
00:11:36.93\00:11:38.26
And I would ask her, you
know, what keeps you here.
00:11:38.29\00:11:40.50
And she would say,
00:11:40.53\00:11:41.86
I just, I don't know what it is,
00:11:41.90\00:11:43.23
God has not
told me to leave yet.
00:11:43.26\00:11:45.70
He has not said I should leave.
00:11:45.73\00:11:48.40
And so I honored that,
00:11:48.44\00:11:51.57
you know,
commitment that she had
00:11:51.61\00:11:52.94
and I continued to support her.
00:11:52.97\00:11:54.98
And I got a
call from her one day
00:11:55.01\00:11:56.85
and she said
everything has changed.
00:11:56.88\00:11:58.71
He's treating me like a
queen. Everything is different.
00:11:58.75\00:12:02.68
He had finally
grasped servant leadership
00:12:02.72\00:12:04.95
and his life had turned around.
00:12:04.99\00:12:06.32
I'm sure they've had
relapses, you know, things
00:12:06.35\00:12:07.82
that aren't
usually in clean line,
00:12:07.86\00:12:09.19
we don't have
this flight to health
00:12:09.22\00:12:10.56
and everything is fixed.
00:12:10.59\00:12:12.33
But at least he had a
moment where he realized
00:12:12.36\00:12:15.13
what it was like
to be a servant leader
00:12:15.16\00:12:16.67
and their marriage
was transformed by it.
00:12:16.70\00:12:18.47
So yes, people can
come back from adultery,
00:12:18.50\00:12:20.24
it's possible through
the grace and power of Jesus.
00:12:20.27\00:12:23.24
I think that it would be like,
00:12:23.27\00:12:26.21
for me if I were
in that situation,
00:12:26.24\00:12:28.31
I think it would be super
hard to come back from that,
00:12:28.34\00:12:30.85
like, let's say for example
00:12:30.88\00:12:33.08
I was married and
my wife cheated on me.
00:12:33.11\00:12:37.59
That would be
very, very hard for me
00:12:37.62\00:12:41.26
to salvage that.
00:12:41.29\00:12:42.62
I would just be ready
for a divorce at that point.
00:12:42.66\00:12:45.06
I wouldn't trust her.
00:12:45.09\00:12:46.43
If there's no
trust, you have nothing.
00:12:46.46\00:12:48.86
That's right. So.
00:12:48.90\00:12:50.23
Well, that's why I've
dedicated a whole program
00:12:50.27\00:12:52.73
because, Jason,
you don't really know
00:12:52.77\00:12:54.37
what you would
do in that situation
00:12:54.40\00:12:55.94
'cause you're not there yet.
00:12:55.97\00:12:57.37
So maybe you'll change
your mind, I don't know.
00:12:57.41\00:12:59.74
I doubt it. You doubt it.
00:12:59.77\00:13:01.11
Yeah, I strongly
doubt that. But yeah.
00:13:01.14\00:13:02.84
But that's why I've
dedicated a whole program
00:13:02.88\00:13:04.85
to how to recover from adultery.
00:13:04.88\00:13:06.38
Because I've
counseled a number of couples
00:13:06.41\00:13:08.28
that went through that.
00:13:08.32\00:13:10.15
And some of them
just they love each other,
00:13:10.19\00:13:11.85
you know, it
happened and it was terrible.
00:13:11.89\00:13:14.06
And sometimes the
cheating takes the form of,
00:13:14.09\00:13:16.86
you know, something less
than forming a relationship
00:13:16.89\00:13:19.19
with someone else,
00:13:19.23\00:13:20.56
maybe it's a strip club
or maybe it's pornography,
00:13:20.60\00:13:22.50
you know, type of thing.
00:13:22.53\00:13:24.10
So, you know, some
people do want to come back
00:13:24.13\00:13:26.87
and that's why I'm trying
to give them marching orders
00:13:26.90\00:13:29.10
and action steps for that.
00:13:29.14\00:13:30.47
Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:30.51\00:13:32.21
You know, and
hopefully if they do decide
00:13:32.24\00:13:34.68
to come back that their
relationship can flourish
00:13:34.71\00:13:37.05
and be stronger than ever.
00:13:37.08\00:13:38.41
Sometimes when we
commit an obvious sin,
00:13:38.45\00:13:41.45
you know, we can
be very pharisaical
00:13:41.48\00:13:43.42
and very committed
to our own righteousness
00:13:43.45\00:13:45.29
until our sin becomes so obvious
00:13:45.32\00:13:47.12
that we can no longer deny it.
00:13:47.16\00:13:49.12
And adultery is
one of those things
00:13:49.16\00:13:50.49
that's so universally condemned
00:13:50.53\00:13:53.23
that it's almost like
the social stigma of it,
00:13:53.26\00:13:55.23
it's just so
crushing that I can see
00:13:55.26\00:13:56.93
where it would drive
a person to the cross
00:13:56.97\00:13:59.23
where they would
give up on themselves
00:13:59.27\00:14:00.74
and reach out to Jesus in
a way they never had before.
00:14:00.77\00:14:03.20
Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:14:03.24\00:14:04.57
Well, thank you for sharing
all that information, Jen.
00:14:04.61\00:14:07.68
And if you want
more information,
00:14:07.71\00:14:09.14
make sure you go
to intimateclarity.tv.
00:14:09.18\00:14:13.01
And please make sure
you join us next time
00:14:13.05\00:14:15.38
where we will be discussing
another sensitive topic.
00:14:15.42\00:14:18.85
God bless.
00:14:18.89\00:14:20.22