The following program
discuses sensitive issues
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related to sexuality.
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Parents are cautioned
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this
presentation may be too candid
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for younger audiences.
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Welcome to Intimate Clarity.
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I'm Jason Bradley, and I'm here
with Jennifer Jill Schwirzer.
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She is a licensed
professional counselor.
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And today we're going to be
discussing a sensitive topic,
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but it's a
conversation we need to have.
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And, Jen, I want to know,
should children who identify
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with the opposite sex be
supported in transitioning?
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That's a million
dollar question, isn't it?
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It is.
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And I'm sure you
have a wonderful answer.
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Well, I've looked into it a lot
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because it's a
fairly new thing for us here
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in the United States of America
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to be assisting
children in transitioning.
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We started in about 2007
at Boston Children's Hospital
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administering
puberty blocking hormones,
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to give the children
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who identify
with the opposite sex
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a space of time
where they can decide
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if they want to
transition or not,
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and that's the
reason that's given.
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And that was something
that was done in Europe
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for some time before that.
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But it only came
to the US in 2007.
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So it's really only
been the last 10 years
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that we've been
dealing with this.
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And there's a lot
of debate about it.
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Some people on one hand feel
it's necessary these children
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have been
struggling for so long,
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we need to assist them,
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and it's a species of
cruelty not to assist them
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in that transition
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if they really are identifying
with the opposite sex.
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And some people
feel that to assist them
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in transitioning is a
species of child abuse.
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So obviously the stakes
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are very high
in this discussion,
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I'm going to try to be
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as fair as I can with the facts.
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So it's true that
children do sometimes identify
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with the opposite sex.
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We call it gender dysphoria.
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And let me actually give you
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the clinical definition of that.
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It is a conflict
between a person's physical
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or assigned
gender and the gender
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with which he,
she or they identify,
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this is from I believe the DSM,
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the American
Psychiatric Association.
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He, she or they? I know.
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That's their definition.
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I wouldn't call anybody they,
if someone who is possessed.
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I think that's wacky.
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But anyway, that's
how they define it.
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So basically it's a child,
let's take the simplest case,
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little boy thinks
he's a little girl
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and the million dollar
question that we're putting
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on the table today
in this program is,
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should we help them
transition from male to female?
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So 80-95% of those children
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who identify as the opposite sex
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will grow out of it.
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Eighty to ninety five percent?
Eighty to ninety five percent.
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And the medical
community knows this.
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I went through a phase
of my life 10 years old.
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I started dressing like a
boy, and I called myself Jeff,
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and I wanted
everybody else to call me Jeff.
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And I tremble to think,
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I wasn't necessarily
identifying myself as a boy.
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but I was moving down
that track a little bit
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and I tremble to think
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if I lived today
what would happen
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in regards to that
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and what my parents
would do in regards to that
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because of what we're
going through right now.
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So these types of
things can develop quite easily
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in a number of different cases.
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And I don't have time
to really flesh this out,
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but let's just
think of a couple.
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If a little girl
experiences physical abuse,
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she has a number of
brothers and maybe cousins
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that are male
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and she ends up
getting physically abused,
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you can see where
she would start to think,
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"Well, if I was a boy,
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I would be able
to fight them off."
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I would be tough
enough, and strong enough,
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and I'd never have
to deal with this again.
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Or if for instance a little boy
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is a little on
the a feminine side
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and he happens
to be from a family
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where machismo is very valued
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and he's told
you're acting like a girl
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because you like
flowers, and you like colors,
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and, you know,
you play like a girl,
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and you act like a girl.
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He might start to think,
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I'm a girl locked
up in a boy's body.
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Maybe I should be a girl.
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So there are a number...
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My point is this is, not
one formula that fits all.
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But there are a number
of developmental problems
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that can burgeon
into something like this
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where a kid is basically normal,
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but they go through a
patch where they just think,
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you know, I'm the opposite sex.
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It happens all the time.
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Eighty to ninety five
percent of them grow out of it.
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That's a huge number.
That's a big, vast majority.
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Eighty to ninety
five percent. Absolutely.
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That's right.
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And so prematurely rushing them
into a transitioning process
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that regards that involves
high risk medical interventions
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is to me unthinkable,
medically irresponsible
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and potentially
even child abuse.
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I have to be honest.
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Yeah, I agree with you
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because I mean
first of all as a kid,
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you know, as you grow
up your tastes change,
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your way of
thinking changes like,
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you know, that's why
you don't get married
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at 14, 15 or even 18,
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you know, it's kind of dangerous
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because your taste
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might change at
25, 30, you know.
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And so far we haven't
in our society approved
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of or affirmed man-boy
love, man-boy love being,
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you know, an older
adult male with child partner
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or man-child love I should say.
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We haven't approved of that.
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Everybody recognizes
that pretty much is wrong
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because that child is,
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you know, a minor
and they don't even have
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the brain capacity to be able
to make a judgment about that.
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But what we're doing
here is we're giving children
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the right to choose their sex.
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I don't think it's too
far in the future to give them
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the right to
choose their sex partner.
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Yeah.
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I'm just trying
to think logically.
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And that's a scary thing,
but it is a slippery slope.
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That's where it's
headed it seems like.
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Very frightening.
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So let me tell you
what the approach generally
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is when a child is according
to the current thinking,
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the current narrative of
boy trapped in a girl's body
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or a girl
trapped in a boy's body
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what is typically done
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is they're given
puberty blocking hormones
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as a first step that buys them
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a little bit of time
and they can think about
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whether they want
to transition or not.
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Often this is a decision
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that's made
primarily by the child,
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but with the
support of the family.
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The side effects
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of these puberty
blocking hormones
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are unknown.
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We don't really know,
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but there are some
concerns about bone density
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because bone density has
much to do with hormonal,
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you know,
especially during puberty.
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I went through
anorexia as a young person,
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and I basically
went back into puberty,
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when backed up
through adolescence
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into prepubescent
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in terms of my hormonal levels
because of the eating disorder,
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and I ended up
with osteoporosis.
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I can only imagine what happens
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when you
actually give a medication
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that suppresses those hormones.
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Hormones are involved in
neurological development.
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So what are we doing to
the brains of these children
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when we give them
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these puberty blocking hormones?
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It's just frightening to me.
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You know, in censoriously,
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you said they don't
know the side effects
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of those puberty
blocking hormones.
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The side effects that
we do know for medicine,
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you know, you
see those commercials
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where it's talking
about specific field...
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I know, it list
up the side effects.
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It's for this particular cause,
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but some of the side
effects are ache, pain,
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and they say in a
real high pitch voice.
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And in rare cases...
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You know, I mean like you
should be happy about that,
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like what is that?
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Exactly.
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So we're taking
big risks on sometimes
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when you give
medications and especially
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when they
haven't been road tested
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or even studied for
a long period of time.
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So that's the first step though,
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it gets worse.
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The second step in transitioning
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a child is giving them
the opposite sex hormones,
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that begins at
about 16 years old.
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So if I'm a little boy,
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I think I'm a little girl
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giving the puberty blocking
hormones until about 16,
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then they're
going to start giving me
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opposite sex hormones.
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So estrogen in
the case of a boy.
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And then sometimes
surgical transition
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as early as 18 years old.
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In my view this gives children
far too much determining power
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to make a life
altering decisions
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that could bring
about permanent destruction
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of healthy organs,
permanent sterility,
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and other health complications
like that's giving that kid far
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too much power
to make it of that.
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So the million dollar question
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then is what do you do
with the transgender child.
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It's a real thing. I'm
not denying the problem.
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I am denying the solution
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or I am
questioning the solution.
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I want to give an example
of that of how to treat this.
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I would say
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that extensive
counseling to find out
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if there are any
developmental issues presenting.
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And I would also
say that we need to take
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a careful look at
other developmental problems
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that that child
might be experiencing.
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There's a high higher level
of autism spectrum disorders
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in the transgender communities
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so often that child
will be also autistic.
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And one of the
features of autism
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is you tend to
think in black and white.
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So if I'm a little
girl that enjoys boy things,
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I'm kind of a tomboy, I
might be thinking in black,
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well, I must be a boy
because I like boy things.
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So it's either or whereas,
you know, in nuanced thinking
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I'd be able to
entertain the possibility that,
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you know, I am kind
of a masculine girl,
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but I'm still a girl.
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Yeah. You know, I could do that.
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So there was a man
named Kenneth J. Zucker
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who ran a gender identity
clinic in Toronto, Canada,
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in connection with
the hospital there.
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He took a very
moderate approach.
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He would
transition children sometimes.
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He would assist
them in transitioning.
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But he was cautious
about it. He exercised caution.
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So he's not even
the most conservative.
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He's not coming
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from a biblical
perspective at all.
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But he's just more moderate
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and trying to be I
think responsible medically.
00:10:03.40\00:10:06.17
And what he
would do is try to see
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if he could get
that child to associate
00:10:08.24\00:10:10.84
with their biological sex.
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The activists
closed his clinic in 2015.
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He was helping scores of people.
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He had a waiting
list, they closed him down.
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That's the
environment we're dealing with.
00:10:22.42\00:10:24.15
You know, the people
brought their children to Jesus
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and they wanted Jesus
to bless their children.
00:10:28.32\00:10:30.99
And, you know,
the disciples said,
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you know, he
doesn't tie for this, like,
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you know, like
bug off kind of thing.
00:10:35.40\00:10:38.80
And Jesus said,
00:10:38.83\00:10:40.17
"Let the little
children come to Me.
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Forbid them not,
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for of such is
the kingdom of God."
00:10:45.67\00:10:48.44
I tremble to think
of what we're doing
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to our children
in this day and age.
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First and foremost,
parents bring them to Jesus.
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Amen. Amen.
00:10:54.55\00:10:55.88
Because they need say a Savior
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and He will give
them a primary identity.
00:10:57.95\00:11:00.52
I think what we're
dealing with often in
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when we're talking
about transgender identity
00:11:04.09\00:11:06.16
is an identity
crisis at its core,
00:11:06.19\00:11:09.06
people really over identifying.
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It's true that I'm a woman.
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But I'm first and
foremost a child of God.
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And because I'm a
follower of Jesus,
00:11:16.07\00:11:17.74
I'm first and foremost
a new creature in Christ,
00:11:17.77\00:11:20.38
the purchase of His
blood a candid of grace.
00:11:20.41\00:11:24.15
And I'm all of those
things first and foremost
00:11:24.18\00:11:26.15
and my woman identity
is a secondary identity.
00:11:26.18\00:11:31.59
I think because people
00:11:31.62\00:11:32.95
don't have a
primary identity in God.
00:11:32.99\00:11:36.39
And in particularly
00:11:36.42\00:11:37.76
in His
creatorship in their lives
00:11:37.79\00:11:39.19
in the way that He made them,
00:11:39.23\00:11:41.16
they're struggling
to find an identity.
00:11:41.20\00:11:43.70
And so some of these things
00:11:43.73\00:11:45.07
are born out of
that identity crisis.
00:11:45.10\00:11:47.34
Yes, yes.
00:11:47.37\00:11:48.70
And, you know, it's seems like
00:11:48.74\00:11:50.41
when they're
struggling with that,
00:11:50.44\00:11:51.84
it's almost as
if they're denying
00:11:51.87\00:11:53.58
their very existence
00:11:53.61\00:11:56.14
because God created
you the way that you are.
00:11:56.18\00:12:02.35
If you were born boy,
He created you to be a boy.
00:12:02.38\00:12:07.62
And sometimes if
you work with children
00:12:07.66\00:12:09.62
what you do is kind
of a nuanced approach.
00:12:09.66\00:12:11.56
And this is what Kenneth Zucker
did is he would first help them
00:12:11.59\00:12:15.86
not feel badly about the fact
00:12:15.90\00:12:18.63
that they felt
like the other gender,
00:12:18.67\00:12:21.37
that's called
secondary disturbance
00:12:21.40\00:12:22.84
when you're disturbed
and then you're disturbed
00:12:22.87\00:12:24.87
about being disturbed.
00:12:24.91\00:12:26.37
So as a counselor
I often help people,
00:12:26.41\00:12:28.78
"You know, it's okay,
that you feel this way."
00:12:28.81\00:12:30.85
So kids that feel
bad about the fact
00:12:30.88\00:12:32.61
that they want to
be the other gender.
00:12:32.65\00:12:34.02
He would resolve that first,
00:12:34.05\00:12:35.62
and sort of help acclimate them,
00:12:35.65\00:12:37.59
and then he would work with them
00:12:37.62\00:12:38.95
to try to get them to identify
00:12:38.99\00:12:40.62
and engage in
some of the behaviors
00:12:40.66\00:12:42.16
of their biological gender.
00:12:42.19\00:12:44.73
And that's why
they came down on him.
00:12:44.76\00:12:46.29
They couldn't deal with
that. And they closed the doors.
00:12:46.33\00:12:48.16
He had a very careful approach.
00:12:48.20\00:12:50.43
And I'm not saying he
did everything perfectly.
00:12:50.47\00:12:53.00
I don't know the
details of his practice,
00:12:53.03\00:12:54.80
but I can just see the
attitude in society today
00:12:54.84\00:12:57.84
is presenting transitioning
as if it's a snap answer
00:12:57.87\00:13:01.11
to really a very
complicated issue.
00:13:01.14\00:13:03.81
And we need to, I think
have a lot more sobriety
00:13:03.85\00:13:06.38
and a lot more care
and, you know, for people
00:13:06.41\00:13:09.92
that are following the
Lord a biblical foundation.
00:13:09.95\00:13:13.05
Absolutely.
00:13:13.09\00:13:14.42
And that's, you know,
biblical principles are solid,
00:13:14.46\00:13:16.69
you know...
00:13:16.73\00:13:18.06
And they're even solid
for people that are choosing.
00:13:18.09\00:13:19.43
Absolutely.
00:13:19.46\00:13:20.80
And we see how
our culture shifts,
00:13:20.83\00:13:22.26
it's constantly shifting.
00:13:22.30\00:13:23.67
So if you're not standing
on something that's firm,
00:13:23.70\00:13:27.44
you're going to be
carried everywhere.
00:13:27.47\00:13:28.80
Well, and what's going to happen
00:13:28.84\00:13:30.17
is we're going to
see a blowback from this.
00:13:30.21\00:13:32.44
I read a story this morning
of a girl that transitioned
00:13:32.47\00:13:34.91
and then de-transitioned.
00:13:34.94\00:13:36.38
And I want to just
read this in closing.
00:13:36.41\00:13:37.88
This is from her grandfather.
Her parents broke up.
00:13:37.91\00:13:41.65
She ended up living
with her grandfather
00:13:41.68\00:13:43.02
and this is what he said
00:13:43.05\00:13:44.39
when she transitioned he
said, "I couldn't handle it, "
00:13:44.42\00:13:47.12
this is what he said,
"I couldn't handle it.
00:13:47.16\00:13:49.72
I said I can't change.
00:13:49.76\00:13:51.89
If you want to change
you change but I can't."
00:13:51.93\00:13:55.33
And then he says,
00:13:55.36\00:13:56.70
"But I wasn't
going to kick her out.
00:13:56.73\00:13:58.07
I love her."
00:13:58.10\00:13:59.43
That's a beautiful
balance right there.
00:13:59.47\00:14:00.80
Wow. Yeah, that's deep.
Well, Jen, we are out of time.
00:14:00.84\00:14:05.27
And I want to share how
people can get more resources.
00:14:05.31\00:14:08.34
If you want some more resources,
00:14:08.38\00:14:10.98
please visit intimateclarity.tv.
00:14:11.01\00:14:14.52
Check out the
resources we have there.
00:14:14.55\00:14:16.28
And we will see you
00:14:16.32\00:14:17.65
on the next episode
of Intimate Clarity.
00:14:17.69\00:14:19.62