The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to sexuality.
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Parents are cautioned
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this
presentation may be too candid
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for younger audiences.
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Welcome to Intimate Clarity.
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I'm Jason Bradley,
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and I'm here with
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer,
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and she is a licensed
professional counselor.
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And today, we're
going to be talking about
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a very sensitive topic,
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but it's a
conversation we need to have.
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Jen, is the best solution
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for gender
dysphoria transitioning?
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All right, well,
that's a really good question.
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You're right, and
what I want to do is
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I want to
explain what that all is.
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This actually
comes in three stages.
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The first stage would
be social transitioning
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where the person
with gender dysphoria,
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say, for instance,
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he's a male and
identifies as a female,
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would socially
transition, dress like a female,
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present himself as a
female, changes name,
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and kind of
accustom his community
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to regarding him as a female.
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That's the first step.
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The second step in transitioning
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is dosing with
hormones of the opposite sex.
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So for instance, a male
would then take female hormones
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and that would
actually change their body
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in significant ways,
the face structure changes,
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female to male, the face,
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the man will
take estrogen and his,
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you know, women's
faces are softer than men's,
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and so he'll start to
have more of a feminine face.
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He will start to
have less facial hair,
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he'll start to develop breasts,
his genitalia will atrophy,
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his male genitalia will atrophy,
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and other
changes that come about
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as a result of that.
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The male to female,
gets kind of confusing.
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It does like XY
chromosomes, YY chromosomes...
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I'm sorry.
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The female to male
will take testosterone,
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her voice will lower,
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she'll start to
have facial hair,
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her breasts will atrophy,
and her female genitalia
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will also go
through some changes.
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So those things
are going to begin
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the physical
transitioning process.
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Some people will then
elect to undergo surgery.
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Okay.
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And as I've
studied this, I've realized
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that the vast majority
of surgical transitions
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are done on the
top half of the body,
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either removing
breasts or adding breasts.
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Not too many are
done on the lower half
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because they're
kind of difficult
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and there are some
significant side effects
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as a result of those things,
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not the least of
which is sterilization.
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The easiest, if you're going
to operate on the lower half
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is male to female,
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the most difficult is female
to male and very physical.
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There is no
coming back from that.
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Yeah, exactly, exactly.
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That's a point of no
return. No, I know exactly.
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And we don't want to
get into too much detail
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just for delicacy reasons,
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but let's just suffice it to say
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that there are difficulties
with these surgeries
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because the tissues of your body
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need a certain
oxygen exposure level.
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If you give too much
oxygen exposure to a tissue
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that is not accustomed
to it, you'll have problems.
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If you have too little
oxygen exposure for a tissue
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that is accustomed to
a different environment,
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you'll have problems there.
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And so what you're
doing with these surgeries
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is inferring things
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that aren't
designed to be inverted,
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so what will
eventually happen is atrophy.
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So it's a very
unnatural process.
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Extremely against nature,
like we were talking about
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during one of
our programs before.
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So you're going to
deal with side effects.
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Whenever you go against
nature, against our design,
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you're going to have
a physical side effects
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and basically
many of these surgeries
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don't succeed
for a length of time.
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And it's very interesting to
me there was a study in Sweden
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that showed a spike in
suicide in transgendered people
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who had undergone surgery
from 5% to 10% post surgery
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starting at about 10
years after the surgery.
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So it doubled.
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It doubled,
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and it was already
high but it doubled.
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And it happened 10
years after the surgery,
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which I find very interesting.
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And what my
educated guess would be about
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what happened there
is that individuals,
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for one thing, hoped that
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this surgery would
solve all of their problems.
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And a period of
time after the surgery,
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they realized it
really didn't make me happy.
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I relate to that
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because I've
had health problems,
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and I've had
surgery for health problems,
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and I thought this is
going to fix everything.
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I want to be,
you know, like new.
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Yeah.
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And then realize
it really didn't do
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as much as I thought it would.
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And that can be a
crushing revelation.
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And, you know, we
see a lot of times
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where there are
different medical issues
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and people push
certain medicines
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and everything like that
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but it's not
dealing with the root cause.
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The root cause. It's
just masking the symptoms.
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That's right.
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And that seems like
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that's what's
going on in this case.
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So I think there can be
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a profound
disappointment on that level,
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but also the surgery itself
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can start to not be as
beneficial to that person,
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they can have a
lower level of enjoyment,
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and they can even start
to experience some problems
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as a result of the
surgery, 10 years post surgery.
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Okay.
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So basically this
is not in my view,
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and I'm not a doctor,
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so I have to
issue that disclaimer,
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but I don't think
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this is the most
medically responsible way
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to handle gender dysphoria.
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That's
particularly true of children,
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and we're going to address that
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in a whole different program.
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But it's also true
of adults, I'm not sure
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it's the right solution.
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I'm not denying the problem,
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I'm just
questioning the solution
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because here's the thing.
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You may do the transition,
you may socially transition,
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hormonally transition,
and then undergo surgery,
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but you can
never change the DNA.
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Yeah.
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You will always, in terms
of your DNA, always be a male,
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I will always be a female,
and that will never change.
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So I just think
it's a false hope
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that we're
holding out to people.
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And I think that transgenderism,
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the movement as we see it today,
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is the fruit of
Western individualism
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gone rogue
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because all that really
matters is that I'm happy.
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You know, transitioning
is very difficult at times,
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depending on your social milieu,
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depending on your
community, your family,
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and the people that know you,
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it can be extremely difficult.
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I've had friends
that have had children,
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that have transitioned,
and they now have to introduce
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their son as their daughter.
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This puts a profound...
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I'm just saying this for myself.
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I have two daughters.
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If one of them
decided they were a man
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and they transitioned,
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I don't know that I
would ever come to the place
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where I would
introduce them as my son
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because I would feel
like that would be a lie,
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and I wouldn't
want to have to lie.
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Yeah, and so I plan
make believe type of thing.
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That's right.
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And so the particular
belief of the individual
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just triumphs over
the needs of the community
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in this kind of scenario,
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and everybody
pretty much around them
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is required to agree,
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even if they know in
their heart of hearts,
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this is not a man,
this is not a woman.
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And I don't
think that that's fair,
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I think that
that's dysfunctional,
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and it's denying the
community aspect of human life.
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We're not just
individuals, we're individuals
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that live within
the fabric of a society
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in a body of Christ.
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You know, we're
connected to one another
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in a profound way,
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but also in our
biological families,
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there are connections,
there are relationships.
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And when we're
making as big of a decision
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as transitioning would be,
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we need to be in
close consultation
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with all the people
that would be affected by it.
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And so often, this
has not seen that way.
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Yeah, and like you
said, 10 years later
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then there those
suicide issue is doubling.
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That's right.
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All right, from 5% to 10%.
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Yeah. Wow.
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So what are some of
your thoughts and responses,
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this is heavy material, like...
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What are you
feeling, you know like?
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It is heavy.
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It's very heavy
that the beginning part
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had me a little
confused for a little bit
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because it was
kind of like in biology
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where they start
talking about XX chromosomes...
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And XY.
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YY, XY and all that stuff,
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so the beginning part
had me a little bit confused.
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But I think that
it's interesting,
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I think that
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you're not
addressing the root issue,
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you know, with
the gender dysphoria,
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like I don't think that
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they're
addressing the root issue,
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which they're just
simply masking the symptoms,
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there is an identity
crisis that's going on
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that's taking place
inside the individual.
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And as opposed to
taking a look at, okay,
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where did that originate,
where did that come from,
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they're just saying here.
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Here is this solution,
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this
temporary/permanent solution.
00:08:58.77\00:09:01.20
Yeah.
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You know, apply that
and see what happens.
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And then, down the road,
you realize, "What did I do?"
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"What did I just do?"
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And this is a fact that many,
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you know, look back and wish
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that it never
happened, you know.
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And it makes me
think of this gentleman
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that was
interviewed on Dare to Dream.
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Now he had a sex
change, and he went back,
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you know, as...
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Transitioned back.
Yeah, as far as that he could.
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As much as he could.
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So I mean, it's...
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That's right.
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It's definitely
a sensitive topic.
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Well, we started out,
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you know, perfect
there in the Garden of Eden,
00:09:37.64\00:09:39.64
we fell into sin.
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And as a result
of our fall into sin,
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we developed a shame
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because now we're sinful
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and God is holy and we see this.
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We have the sense of
this sort of baseline
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sense of distress and shame.
00:09:51.75\00:09:53.96
And the first
thing that mankind did
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when faced with that
overwhelming sense of shame
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is we
manufactured fig leaf garments.
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And I think that those symbolize
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our human
attempts to fix ourselves
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apart from God
because they were,
00:10:06.30\00:10:08.40
there in the garden,
00:10:08.44\00:10:09.77
God hadn't come
into the garden yet,
00:10:09.80\00:10:11.14
and they, like
patch it up and fix it up,
00:10:11.17\00:10:13.58
and then God comes
into the garden, you know,
00:10:13.61\00:10:15.54
in the cool of the
day so it's same day,
00:10:15.58\00:10:18.31
and they jump behind a bush.
00:10:18.35\00:10:19.91
So how much did
those fig leaf garments
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which were
purportedly there to help them
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overcome that shame
really help them in the end?
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They ended up jumping behind
a bush and hiding from God.
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So it really didn't
work and all of our efforts,
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I think similarly, I
think that's symbolic
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of all of our
efforts to fix ourselves
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apart from God,
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and I can't help but
see this in high relief
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in this phenomena of transition.
00:10:42.24\00:10:43.87
I got to jump in right there.
00:10:43.91\00:10:45.81
I mean, the fig
leaves, right? Yeah.
00:10:45.84\00:10:48.31
It's an uncomfortable situation.
00:10:48.34\00:10:50.68
They're scratchy.
That's uncomfortable.
00:10:50.71\00:10:52.61
I have fig leaves in my yard.
I have fig trees in my yard.
00:10:52.65\00:10:55.18
Yeah. Very rough.
00:10:55.22\00:10:56.55
And so then when we try
and fix our own situations
00:10:56.58\00:10:59.85
without the help of God,
00:10:59.89\00:11:01.59
without allowing God
to come in and change us,
00:11:01.62\00:11:05.03
it leads to
uncomfortable situation.
00:11:05.06\00:11:07.26
If there is one thing I've seen
over and over in my own life
00:11:07.30\00:11:10.33
and in the lives of the
people that I try to help
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in counseling and in ministry,
00:11:12.30\00:11:14.50
it's that the more we
do to try to fix ourselves
00:11:14.54\00:11:17.31
apart from God, the
worse we make ourselves.
00:11:17.34\00:11:20.41
Absolutely.
00:11:20.44\00:11:21.78
We get driven
farther and farther
00:11:21.81\00:11:23.58
into the sin cycle
00:11:23.61\00:11:25.31
and more and
more entrenched in it
00:11:25.35\00:11:27.32
and the problems compound
and they get deeper and deeper,
00:11:27.35\00:11:30.69
and the layers get deeper
00:11:30.72\00:11:32.19
and the corresponding
incentive to numb out
00:11:32.22\00:11:35.72
or seek
diversions in order to escape
00:11:35.76\00:11:38.79
those layers of
problems be intensifies
00:11:38.83\00:11:41.76
and we just get
in deeper and deeper
00:11:41.80\00:11:44.30
until, finally,
sometimes we come to the point
00:11:44.33\00:11:48.37
where we throw our
hands up in the air and say,
00:11:48.40\00:11:49.77
"Lord, it's not
working. I can't fix myself.
00:11:49.80\00:11:52.67
You're going to have
to take over from here."
00:11:52.71\00:11:54.48
Oh, yes.
00:11:54.51\00:11:55.84
And so I'm saying this
out of compassion for people
00:11:55.88\00:11:58.28
that are dealing
with transgenderism.
00:11:58.31\00:12:00.35
I don't think I'm
coming from a place of,
00:12:00.38\00:12:03.59
you know, feeling of wanting
to disparage or put them down,
00:12:03.62\00:12:08.02
I don't feel that
way, but it's kind of like
00:12:08.06\00:12:10.16
when you see someone smoking,
00:12:10.19\00:12:11.83
you know, you want
them to quit smoking
00:12:11.86\00:12:13.60
because you know
00:12:13.63\00:12:14.96
that the smoking is
going to cause health problems.
00:12:15.00\00:12:17.37
And I look at this
phenomena of transgenderism,
00:12:17.40\00:12:20.34
I don't deny that some
people have an intense desire
00:12:20.37\00:12:23.54
to be the opposite sex,
00:12:23.57\00:12:24.91
and even identify
as the opposite sex,
00:12:24.94\00:12:26.57
and feel like they're a
woman locked in a man's body
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or man locked in a woman's body,
00:12:28.68\00:12:30.51
and my heart goes out to them,
00:12:30.55\00:12:32.91
but I think that, like you said,
00:12:32.95\00:12:35.22
to try to fix it in our own way,
00:12:35.25\00:12:38.49
apart from God is only
going to make it worse.
00:12:38.52\00:12:41.42
We need to get to
the root of the problem.
00:12:41.46\00:12:43.32
And to get to the
root of a problem like that
00:12:43.36\00:12:45.43
is such a profound
crisis as an identity crisis
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requires the Holy Spirit of God
00:12:50.60\00:12:52.47
coming into that
person's life and helping them
00:12:52.50\00:12:55.57
to trace from cause to effect,
what happened in my life,
00:12:55.60\00:12:58.51
what are some of the
variables that occurred
00:12:58.54\00:13:00.64
that led me to this place
00:13:00.68\00:13:02.18
where I feel
like I'm the wrong sex
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locked up in the wrong body.
00:13:04.05\00:13:06.48
And that's what
the Holy Spirit can do.
00:13:06.51\00:13:08.62
He can show us,
what led us to the point
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where we got and
then the same spirit
00:13:11.29\00:13:14.19
can give us the power to change.
00:13:14.22\00:13:16.69
And I think the people
dealing with transgenderism
00:13:16.73\00:13:19.46
can come to a place
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where they have peace
with their own biological sex.
00:13:21.00\00:13:24.27
I think that that's possible.
00:13:24.30\00:13:25.83
That's a change of mind.
00:13:25.87\00:13:27.20
And the Bible says,
"Let this mind be in you, "
00:13:27.24\00:13:29.80
which was also in
Christ Jesus says,
00:13:29.84\00:13:31.57
be transformed by the
renewing of your mind.
00:13:31.61\00:13:34.91
The renewing of the
mind is much more possible
00:13:34.94\00:13:38.51
if I can put it this
way than renewing your body,
00:13:38.55\00:13:41.18
changing your body.
00:13:41.22\00:13:42.55
Absolutely.
00:13:42.58\00:13:43.92
You never going
to change your DNA.
00:13:43.95\00:13:45.29
And even the
transitional surgery
00:13:45.32\00:13:46.65
doesn't work all that well,
00:13:46.69\00:13:48.39
so you're really
never going to be
00:13:48.42\00:13:49.76
able to do that effectively.
00:13:49.79\00:13:52.09
I would say, the
easiest route is to,
00:13:52.13\00:13:54.33
you know, seek
renewal of the mind.
00:13:54.36\00:13:55.96
Absolutely.
00:13:56.00\00:13:57.33
Yeah, like you said,
it's no going back sometimes.
00:13:57.37\00:14:00.94
Sometimes you reach the
point where you can't return.
00:14:00.97\00:14:03.30
So, yes, I agree with
that. We've uncovered a lot.
00:14:03.34\00:14:06.98
We have.
00:14:07.01\00:14:08.34
And if you want
some more information,
00:14:08.38\00:14:11.05
go to IntimateClarity.TV
00:14:11.08\00:14:13.85
and check out
the resources there.
00:14:13.88\00:14:15.55
Our time is up.
00:14:15.58\00:14:16.92
Make sure you join us
next time on Intimate Clarity.
00:14:16.95\00:14:19.72