The following program
00:00:01.36\00:00:02.70
discusses sensitive
issues related to sexuality.
00:00:02.73\00:00:05.07
Parents are
cautioned this presentation
00:00:05.10\00:00:07.60
may be too candid
for younger audiences.
00:00:07.64\00:00:10.11
Welcome to Intimate
Clarity. I'm Jason Bradley.
00:00:30.73\00:00:32.99
And I'm here with
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer
00:00:33.03\00:00:34.93
and she is a licensed
professional counselor.
00:00:34.96\00:00:37.77
And today, we are
going to be talking about
00:00:37.80\00:00:40.54
a sensitive topic,
00:00:40.57\00:00:42.00
but it's a
conversation we need to have.
00:00:42.04\00:00:44.84
You know, some
people are promoting
00:00:44.87\00:00:47.28
acceptance of
homosexual relationships
00:00:47.31\00:00:49.38
within the church provided that
they're monogamous and loving.
00:00:49.41\00:00:54.28
Do you think
that's biblical, Jen?
00:00:54.32\00:00:56.72
That's a really,
really, really good question
00:00:56.75\00:00:58.45
and suppressing
question right now
00:00:58.49\00:01:00.06
because we're
wrestling with this very thing.
00:01:00.09\00:01:02.39
And let me,
before I get into this,
00:01:02.42\00:01:03.76
just explain
that there are kind of
00:01:03.79\00:01:05.23
two categories of people,
00:01:05.26\00:01:06.96
there are what we
call affirming individuals
00:01:07.00\00:01:10.10
who believe that it is okay
00:01:10.13\00:01:12.73
for homosexuals to have
homosexual relationships.
00:01:12.77\00:01:16.81
Christian, you
know, in a church context,
00:01:16.84\00:01:19.21
provided that the relationship
is monogamous, loving,
00:01:19.24\00:01:22.21
and consensual.
00:01:22.24\00:01:23.65
And then there are other people
that think that that is immoral
00:01:23.68\00:01:26.18
and those people are
called non-affirming.
00:01:26.21\00:01:28.88
I don't like the term
because it makes it sound like
00:01:28.92\00:01:31.69
I'm not affirming of gay people
or of anything about them.
00:01:31.72\00:01:35.06
This is a little bit derogatory
on me, but by that definition,
00:01:35.09\00:01:38.36
I would fall into the
non-affirming category
00:01:38.39\00:01:40.26
for reasons that I've
unpacked in another episode
00:01:40.30\00:01:43.43
of this program.
00:01:43.47\00:01:44.80
But I want to
preface this discussion
00:01:44.83\00:01:47.47
by saying that we've all
fallen below God's ideal.
00:01:47.50\00:01:51.87
We need not come
into this discussion
00:01:51.91\00:01:54.08
in the spirit of
self-righteousness,
00:01:54.11\00:01:55.71
it won't serve us well
because all have sinned
00:01:55.74\00:01:58.58
and fallen short
of the glory of God.
00:01:58.61\00:01:59.95
Now we go so far as to say,
00:01:59.98\00:02:01.32
we've all sinned
in the sexual area
00:02:01.35\00:02:03.02
and fallen short of God's ideal.
00:02:03.05\00:02:04.89
So we need not come in
with self-righteousness.
00:02:04.92\00:02:07.26
And some other
things we should not do
00:02:07.29\00:02:08.79
in this discussion
or not do in general
00:02:08.82\00:02:11.36
is single out
homosexuality as a worse sin
00:02:11.39\00:02:15.20
than heterosexual sins.
00:02:15.23\00:02:17.53
We've done that.
00:02:17.57\00:02:18.90
Oftentimes, just
put on a pedestal.
00:02:18.93\00:02:20.27
It's like the
sin of the sexual sin
00:02:20.30\00:02:22.70
of sexual sins.
00:02:22.74\00:02:24.11
And I don't think
I'd cease it that way.
00:02:24.14\00:02:26.31
Another thing we need
to be careful not to do
00:02:26.34\00:02:29.21
is marginalizing gay people,
00:02:29.24\00:02:31.15
they're already often struggling
00:02:31.18\00:02:32.81
with the sense of isolation,
00:02:32.85\00:02:34.58
they're dealing with things
00:02:34.62\00:02:35.95
that we don't deal
with on a day-to-day basis,
00:02:35.98\00:02:38.05
facing the choice
as to whether to live
00:02:38.09\00:02:39.85
a celibate life or
live in a partnership
00:02:39.89\00:02:42.86
that many people would consider
00:02:42.89\00:02:44.23
and potentially the
Bible considers immoral.
00:02:44.26\00:02:46.33
So you know, they're
wrestling with this big time.
00:02:46.36\00:02:49.86
And we need to
be sensitive to that
00:02:49.90\00:02:51.57
and not marginalize them.
00:02:51.60\00:02:53.80
And then we also need
not be afraid of gay people,
00:02:53.84\00:02:56.17
we call that homophobia,
00:02:56.20\00:02:58.01
as if every single
one of them is just,
00:02:58.04\00:02:59.77
you know, like radioactive
with sin or something.
00:02:59.81\00:03:03.18
Yeah.
00:03:03.21\00:03:04.55
Well, it seems like some people
think that every gay person
00:03:04.58\00:03:07.55
is going to want you
just because they're gay.
00:03:07.58\00:03:09.48
That's right.
00:03:09.52\00:03:10.85
Not every heterosexual want you
00:03:10.89\00:03:12.22
just because
they're heterosexual.
00:03:12.25\00:03:13.59
Very good.
00:03:13.62\00:03:14.96
Not every gay person want
you just because they're gay.
00:03:14.99\00:03:16.32
And that's one of the
things that we need to do
00:03:16.36\00:03:18.26
is we need to enable
the brothers in the church
00:03:18.29\00:03:21.50
to befriend
00:03:21.53\00:03:22.86
their same-sex-attracted
brothers in an appropriate way
00:03:22.90\00:03:26.13
because that
same-sex-attracted brother
00:03:26.17\00:03:28.34
often has a deficit of
male friendships, you see?
00:03:28.37\00:03:32.54
And the same
thing is true of women.
00:03:32.57\00:03:34.08
So we need to cultivate
that in the church and really,
00:03:34.11\00:03:36.04
really love people.
00:03:36.08\00:03:37.45
I have male friends.
00:03:37.48\00:03:38.81
I don't think it's always going
00:03:38.85\00:03:40.18
to go the wrong direction at all
00:03:40.22\00:03:41.85
because I got
boundaries in place,
00:03:41.88\00:03:43.25
you know, and
pretty much always have.
00:03:43.28\00:03:44.79
Yeah.
00:03:44.82\00:03:46.15
So another thing we need not do
is over identifying gay people
00:03:46.19\00:03:48.72
with their gayness if
I could say it that way.
00:03:48.76\00:03:51.69
You know, they're not
just... What do you...?
00:03:51.73\00:03:54.16
Yeah, they're not just
gay, they might be a chef,
00:03:54.20\00:03:56.83
they might be, you
know, into some water skiing,
00:03:56.87\00:03:59.87
or they might be
great with animal,
00:03:59.90\00:04:01.24
they might do animal rescue,
00:04:01.27\00:04:02.60
there may be
aspects of their personality
00:04:02.64\00:04:04.01
that we can really rejoice
and then share with them.
00:04:04.04\00:04:06.68
And if we're
just always seeing gay
00:04:06.71\00:04:08.14
when we look at them,
00:04:08.18\00:04:09.51
that's going to be really
marginalizing in and of itself.
00:04:09.54\00:04:12.35
So let me read a quotation
from the book Desire of Ages,
00:04:12.38\00:04:14.82
wonderful book
on the life of Jesus
00:04:14.85\00:04:17.35
that I recommend to everyone.
00:04:17.39\00:04:19.05
And it says, "Those
who call themselves His
00:04:19.09\00:04:22.42
may despise and
shun the outcast ones.
00:04:22.46\00:04:26.03
But no circumstance
of birth or nationality,
00:04:26.06\00:04:29.03
no condition of life
can turn away His love
00:04:29.06\00:04:32.97
from the children of men."
00:04:33.00\00:04:35.00
So it says no
condition of life can turn away
00:04:35.04\00:04:38.07
His love from you.
00:04:38.11\00:04:39.44
You know, if you're
gay, if you're struggling,
00:04:39.47\00:04:43.11
you're not sure
what you're going to do,
00:04:43.14\00:04:45.61
you're trying to follow Jesus,
00:04:45.65\00:04:46.98
just know that
nothing can turn away
00:04:47.02\00:04:49.18
His love from you.
00:04:49.22\00:04:50.55
I think we need to
set that right in place
00:04:50.59\00:04:52.05
before we discuss
whether we can accept
00:04:52.09\00:04:55.69
homosexual
relationships in church.
00:04:55.72\00:04:58.06
So I think that...
00:04:58.09\00:05:00.90
Well, some people say
00:05:00.93\00:05:03.53
that we should just
simply baptize homosexuals,
00:05:03.57\00:05:06.70
actively homosexual individuals,
00:05:06.74\00:05:09.30
and in time, you
know, maybe they'll grow
00:05:09.34\00:05:11.87
toward God's
ideal for sexuality.
00:05:11.91\00:05:14.68
How do you feel about that?
00:05:14.71\00:05:16.31
I don't think so.
00:05:16.34\00:05:17.68
You wouldn't baptize
somebody who's selling drugs,
00:05:17.71\00:05:21.48
practicing, you
know, any type of...
00:05:21.52\00:05:23.72
Things that are
clearly against God.
00:05:23.75\00:05:25.09
Any things that are
against the Word of God
00:05:25.12\00:05:26.99
and someone that is
actively practicing that,
00:05:27.02\00:05:29.96
you're not going to
baptize them into the church.
00:05:29.99\00:05:34.36
And so it
shouldn't be any different
00:05:34.40\00:05:35.83
for homosexuals,
00:05:35.86\00:05:37.20
like if they are
actively practicing homosexuals,
00:05:37.23\00:05:40.37
then they shouldn't be
baptized into the church.
00:05:40.40\00:05:42.44
So let me play devil's
advocate for a moment here
00:05:42.47\00:05:44.51
and let me just say that often,
00:05:44.54\00:05:45.87
we come into the
church with bad habits,
00:05:45.91\00:05:48.18
or maybe a temper,
00:05:48.21\00:05:49.54
or some kind of
unconquered sin in our lives.
00:05:49.58\00:05:52.71
Can you give me an
idea of what the difference
00:05:52.75\00:05:54.88
is between some of
the baggage we carry?
00:05:54.92\00:05:57.05
Well, we always carry baggage
so, you know, unconquered sin,
00:05:57.09\00:06:00.32
none of us come into the church
00:06:00.36\00:06:01.69
already free from sin.
00:06:01.72\00:06:03.06
Yeah.
00:06:03.09\00:06:04.43
We all have baggage
and all of that stuff,
00:06:04.46\00:06:05.89
and Christ can give
us the victory over that.
00:06:05.93\00:06:09.36
However, if we are being
intentional about sinning
00:06:09.40\00:06:13.13
and living in a life of sin
00:06:13.17\00:06:15.00
or being
intentional about living a life
00:06:15.04\00:06:17.94
that is against God's Word,
00:06:17.97\00:06:21.41
then you're not ready at
that point to be baptized.
00:06:21.44\00:06:25.55
And so I've often wondered
00:06:25.58\00:06:26.92
if we should have
really two forms of membership,
00:06:26.95\00:06:30.69
so to speak,
00:06:30.72\00:06:32.09
because the reality
is that people change
00:06:32.12\00:06:35.12
in the context
of a relationship.
00:06:35.16\00:06:37.69
So say, an
individual in a gay relationship
00:06:37.73\00:06:41.06
wants to follow
Jesus comes to church,
00:06:41.10\00:06:43.67
he is going to and
he could, at least,
00:06:43.70\00:06:45.80
potentially encounter God
00:06:45.83\00:06:47.27
and see a
revelation of God's love
00:06:47.30\00:06:49.90
that he's never seen
before in the church context.
00:06:49.94\00:06:53.01
He'll also
potentially come into fellowship
00:06:53.04\00:06:55.31
with other Christians
00:06:55.34\00:06:56.68
who will reflect
God's love to him.
00:06:56.71\00:06:58.21
And both of those things
are going to help catalyze
00:06:58.25\00:07:00.75
his change
process and convince him
00:07:00.78\00:07:03.15
of wanting to study God,
00:07:03.18\00:07:04.82
I mean, to follow
God more faithfully.
00:07:04.85\00:07:07.62
So we don't want to say,
00:07:07.66\00:07:09.12
"You got to stay
out until you're good
00:07:09.16\00:07:11.49
and then you can come in."
00:07:11.53\00:07:12.86
So my thinking is if we
had two forms of membership,
00:07:12.89\00:07:15.06
one was just more
of a social membership
00:07:15.10\00:07:17.47
where we embrace
people how they are,
00:07:17.50\00:07:18.87
we invite them to events,
00:07:18.90\00:07:20.30
we consider them a brother
00:07:20.34\00:07:22.70
and sister in
the humanity sense,
00:07:22.74\00:07:25.37
then we don't have to
like leave them out completely
00:07:25.41\00:07:27.84
and then you
have church membership
00:07:27.88\00:07:29.74
which is more of an
official membership.
00:07:29.78\00:07:31.25
So one is a social membership
00:07:31.28\00:07:33.31
and the other is an
official membership.
00:07:33.35\00:07:34.88
What do you think about that?
00:07:34.92\00:07:36.25
Well, so a social membership
or an official membership,
00:07:36.28\00:07:40.26
official membership
being a voting membership...
00:07:40.29\00:07:42.12
Baptism.
00:07:42.16\00:07:43.49
Yeah, where you have privileges.
00:07:43.53\00:07:44.86
Social membership,
just really, they're just...
00:07:44.89\00:07:47.06
They're attending. That's right.
00:07:47.10\00:07:48.66
But we need to really cultivate
an atmosphere in church
00:07:48.70\00:07:53.03
and an environment in church
00:07:53.07\00:07:54.40
where we really
cultivate a sense of family.
00:07:54.44\00:07:56.97
And we can
welcome people into that
00:07:57.01\00:07:58.54
even before they're ready
00:07:58.57\00:08:00.54
for official
baptized membership.
00:08:00.58\00:08:03.58
I feel like we could do it
without the membership piece
00:08:03.61\00:08:06.92
in the sense that,
00:08:06.95\00:08:08.28
you know, when you have
a visitor at your church
00:08:08.32\00:08:11.09
and they come back
and they're visiting,
00:08:11.12\00:08:12.92
whether
heterosexual or homosexual,
00:08:12.95\00:08:15.39
and they're visiting,
00:08:15.42\00:08:17.03
and you go and you talk to them,
00:08:17.06\00:08:18.93
and you embrace them,
00:08:18.96\00:08:20.30
you invite them
to stay for potluck,
00:08:20.33\00:08:21.83
you know, and you
get to know the person
00:08:21.86\00:08:24.93
and you cultivate a
relationship with them.
00:08:24.97\00:08:27.00
Yeah.
00:08:27.04\00:08:28.37
I feel like it could
be done on that level
00:08:28.40\00:08:29.80
as opposed to doing the
dual membership type thing
00:08:29.84\00:08:33.11
or not dual membership...
00:08:33.14\00:08:34.78
Well, I'm not
proposing like anything official
00:08:34.81\00:08:36.51
but I'm basically
saying the same thing
00:08:36.54\00:08:38.21
that you just welcome people
00:08:38.25\00:08:39.58
and you love them
on that social level.
00:08:39.61\00:08:42.58
Reading a
statement from Romans 6:3-7
00:08:42.62\00:08:46.35
of the English Standard Version,
00:08:46.39\00:08:47.72
it says, "Do you not know
00:08:47.76\00:08:49.62
that all of us
who have been baptized
00:08:49.66\00:08:51.43
into Christ were
baptized into his death?"
00:08:51.46\00:08:54.36
Baptism is not some light thing,
00:08:54.40\00:08:57.80
it's a very serious commitment.
00:08:57.83\00:08:59.73
"We were buried therefore
with Him by baptism into death,
00:08:59.77\00:09:02.84
in order that, just as
Christ was raised from the dead
00:09:02.87\00:09:05.57
by the glory of the Father,
00:09:05.61\00:09:06.94
we too might walk
in newness of life.
00:09:06.98\00:09:10.91
For if we have been united
with Him in a death like His."
00:09:10.95\00:09:14.68
I mean, what is it for God,
00:09:14.72\00:09:16.45
you know, to tell us
that when we're baptized,
00:09:16.48\00:09:20.56
we've been united with Him
in a death like His, I mean,
00:09:20.59\00:09:23.39
is there
anything like His death?
00:09:23.43\00:09:24.76
No.
00:09:24.79\00:09:26.13
But He still
gives us that credit,
00:09:26.16\00:09:27.66
it's just almost mind blowing.
00:09:27.70\00:09:29.03
And then it says,
00:09:29.06\00:09:30.40
"We shall
certainly be united with Him
00:09:30.43\00:09:32.27
in a resurrection like His."
00:09:32.30\00:09:34.87
That's beautiful.
00:09:34.90\00:09:36.24
"We know that our old self
was crucified with Him in order
00:09:36.27\00:09:39.14
that the body of sin
might be brought to nothing
00:09:39.17\00:09:42.04
so that we would no
longer be enslaved to sin.
00:09:42.08\00:09:46.25
For one who has died
has been set free from sin."
00:09:46.28\00:09:49.38
So what you're doing
in committing to baptism
00:09:49.42\00:09:52.55
is you're saying,
"I'm dead to sin."
00:09:52.59\00:09:54.36
And if the
Bible clearly condemns
00:09:54.39\00:09:56.02
a certain practice,
00:09:56.06\00:09:57.39
you're really
saying, "I'm dead to that."
00:09:57.43\00:09:58.76
Yeah. So I agree with you.
00:09:58.79\00:10:00.13
I come down into the same place,
00:10:00.16\00:10:02.30
but I would just like to say,
00:10:02.33\00:10:03.67
I would like to emphasize
that we really need to...
00:10:03.70\00:10:06.67
I think that often,
00:10:06.70\00:10:09.04
with our gay
brothers and sisters,
00:10:09.07\00:10:10.71
and I speak in the
sense of our brothers
00:10:10.74\00:10:12.87
or sisters in humanity.
00:10:12.91\00:10:14.24
Yeah.
00:10:14.28\00:10:15.61
They feel isolated already,
they feel marginalized already,
00:10:15.64\00:10:18.61
they feel hated, they
feel, even to some degree,
00:10:18.65\00:10:20.75
ashamed of what's going on.
00:10:20.78\00:10:23.28
And often,
they're very conflicted.
00:10:23.32\00:10:24.92
We need to slather
on extra love, I think,
00:10:24.95\00:10:28.09
because when the bread is dry,
00:10:28.12\00:10:29.72
you put on extra butter you
got to get it go down, you know?
00:10:29.76\00:10:31.86
That's right. Yeah.
00:10:31.89\00:10:33.23
So we need to
slather on a lot of love
00:10:33.26\00:10:34.60
and a lot of
acceptance in every way
00:10:34.63\00:10:36.46
that we can to try to overcome
some of the hard feelings.
00:10:36.50\00:10:40.30
But at the same time,
00:10:40.34\00:10:42.24
we need to stand firm
00:10:42.27\00:10:44.37
because we're not
actually helping that person
00:10:44.41\00:10:47.84
if we allow
ourselves to be swayed.
00:10:47.88\00:10:51.08
And cross over to the
enabler side of things.
00:10:51.11\00:10:53.31
That's right. That's right.
00:10:53.35\00:10:54.68
And I feel like a
lot of what's happening
00:10:54.72\00:10:56.48
in the church
today is we're enabling
00:10:56.52\00:10:58.15
on a mass scale.
00:10:58.19\00:11:00.12
And if we don't
regard this issue as an issue
00:11:00.16\00:11:03.96
that involves God's design,
00:11:03.99\00:11:06.56
you know, and
straying from it as unholy,
00:11:06.59\00:11:10.57
then we're going
to do the same thing
00:11:10.60\00:11:11.93
ultimately with sexual abuse.
00:11:11.97\00:11:13.64
Yeah.
00:11:13.67\00:11:15.00
The only foundation
really for us understanding
00:11:15.04\00:11:18.07
any kind of sexual
sin in its true light
00:11:18.11\00:11:20.18
is understanding the
holiness of sexuality,
00:11:20.21\00:11:23.24
and that God in
sexuality created
00:11:23.28\00:11:26.48
a most holy place in a
sense in human experience.
00:11:26.51\00:11:30.05
And if we don't have
that grasp of the holiness
00:11:30.09\00:11:32.95
of God's plan for sexuality,
00:11:32.99\00:11:35.02
then we'll start to see
sexual sin as no big deal.
00:11:35.06\00:11:37.36
Yeah.
00:11:37.39\00:11:38.73
And that will include
same-sex relationships
00:11:38.76\00:11:41.06
and all of these
other newer things
00:11:41.10\00:11:43.16
but also things that are old
as the hills like sexual abuse.
00:11:43.20\00:11:47.24
Yeah.
00:11:47.27\00:11:48.60
It will be light,
it will be soft on sin.
00:11:48.64\00:11:49.97
That's true.
00:11:50.01\00:11:51.34
It's like a gradual
progression it's like saying,
00:11:51.37\00:11:53.01
you know, you go
swimming, all right?
00:11:53.04\00:11:54.64
You go to a pool.
00:11:54.68\00:11:56.01
You stick your toe
in, the water is cold,
00:11:56.04\00:11:58.68
then you actually get in slowly
00:11:58.71\00:12:01.18
but surely you're
going down the steps,
00:12:01.22\00:12:02.92
you get into the water
00:12:02.95\00:12:04.29
and you stay in
there for a little while,
00:12:04.32\00:12:06.15
the warmer it gets.
00:12:06.19\00:12:08.16
And it doesn't actually warm up.
00:12:08.19\00:12:09.52
No. It doesn't.
00:12:09.56\00:12:10.89
You just become
accustomed to it.
00:12:10.93\00:12:12.26
Right, you're becoming
used to that life of sin.
00:12:12.29\00:12:14.50
That's right.
00:12:14.53\00:12:15.86
And you could be
like a frog in hot water
00:12:15.90\00:12:18.30
and the water gradually boils
and the frog never jumps out
00:12:18.33\00:12:20.97
because it doesn't
realize it's in boiling water.
00:12:21.00\00:12:23.54
And it says in the
Bible, "Some save with fear,
00:12:23.57\00:12:27.01
pulling them out of the fire
00:12:27.04\00:12:28.98
and some show
compassion making a difference."
00:12:29.01\00:12:31.91
And exactly, how we
apply those principles,
00:12:31.95\00:12:34.25
two different
approaches to people
00:12:34.28\00:12:36.99
that we're trying to help,
00:12:37.02\00:12:38.85
and how we actually
apply that in the personal
00:12:38.89\00:12:41.69
is a work of the Holy Spirit.
00:12:41.72\00:12:43.22
The Holy Spirit has
to illuminate God's word
00:12:43.26\00:12:45.53
and make clear to us
00:12:45.56\00:12:46.90
what we do in that
particular situation.
00:12:46.93\00:12:49.23
Yeah.
00:12:49.26\00:12:50.60
But I want more
of the love of Jesus
00:12:50.63\00:12:51.97
because I just feel like...
00:12:52.00\00:12:53.34
I feel like I need to
reach out to the gay population
00:12:53.37\00:12:55.74
and tell them God loves you
00:12:55.77\00:12:58.04
because there have been
a lot of church entities
00:12:58.07\00:13:00.51
that have given the
opposite message, you know?
00:13:00.54\00:13:03.18
And you've seen
it in the news too
00:13:03.21\00:13:04.58
where people are
vociferous against gay people,
00:13:04.61\00:13:07.38
single them out,
00:13:07.42\00:13:08.75
it's so unlike
Christ to do that.
00:13:08.78\00:13:10.19
And you know,
God loves everyone,
00:13:10.22\00:13:12.22
you know, including homosexuals.
00:13:12.25\00:13:15.09
It's not that God
doesn't love the individual,
00:13:15.12\00:13:19.13
He just doesn't love
00:13:19.16\00:13:21.03
what the individual
may be doing the sin,
00:13:21.06\00:13:23.80
He doesn't like the sin.
00:13:23.83\00:13:25.27
It's like if you have
a kid that is a murderer
00:13:25.30\00:13:28.27
or a drug dealer or
whatever the case may be,
00:13:28.30\00:13:31.17
you still love the
kids but you really don't...
00:13:31.21\00:13:34.94
You don't like what
they're doing, you know?
00:13:34.98\00:13:37.68
And so it's the same thing.
00:13:37.71\00:13:39.31
That's right.
00:13:39.35\00:13:40.68
And you don't like
what they're doing,
00:13:40.72\00:13:42.08
not just to other
people but you don't like
00:13:42.12\00:13:43.92
what they're
doing to themselves.
00:13:43.95\00:13:45.29
And a lot of time,
if you will say to them,
00:13:45.32\00:13:46.99
"Look, I'm concerned for you
and what this is doing to you
00:13:47.02\00:13:50.29
and that's where
I'm coming from,"
00:13:50.33\00:13:52.03
that may get through and
they may be able to accept
00:13:52.06\00:13:54.70
what you're saying.
00:13:54.73\00:13:56.06
Yes. And this is a deep topic.
00:13:56.10\00:13:58.07
I know.
00:13:58.10\00:13:59.43
There's so much to discuss
and we're out of time again.
00:13:59.47\00:14:02.40
How about that?
00:14:02.44\00:14:03.77
So where do they
go to get resources?
00:14:03.81\00:14:06.04
They go to...
00:14:06.07\00:14:07.41
No, I'm sorry.
IntimateClarity.tv.
00:14:07.44\00:14:09.34
I was thinking
of my own program.
00:14:09.38\00:14:10.71
Okay.
00:14:10.75\00:14:12.08
Go to IntimateClarity.tv,
00:14:12.11\00:14:13.45
and make sure
you join us next time
00:14:13.48\00:14:15.38
on Intimate Clarity.
00:14:15.42\00:14:16.75