The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to sexuality.
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Parents are
cautioned this presentation
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may be too candid
for younger audiences.
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Welcome to Intimate
Clarity, I'm Jason Bradley.
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And I'm here with
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer
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and she is a licensed
professional counselor.
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And today we're going
to be discussing a topic
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that is affecting really a
lot of people in the world.
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And it's a conversation
that we need to have.
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So, Jen, is
remarrying after divorce
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a good idea, bad idea,
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is that a one-and-done
thing or what is it?
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Why do you keep
opening these cans of worms
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over and over again?
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These are hard questions
you keep asking me, Jason.
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As I sip while you...
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While I talk.
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Do it. Yes.
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So I have to be clear that,
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and I think the Bible is clear
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that God's ideal is
one partner for life.
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Okay.
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You know that's His ideal.
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Absolutely.
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And that bonding takes
place early in your life
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and there's all kind of
neuroscience behind this
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and all kinds of science
showing that that's really,
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it works the best that way.
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But the reality is that
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not all of us
follow that pattern.
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And so it's very important
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that we realize that
while God is the Creator,
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He's also the Redeemer.
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And while He has a
design that He put in place,
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we need to leave
the design there,
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but we also need to realize
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that when we
stray from that design,
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our live become
broken and we can't,
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we don't any longer
adhere to that design,
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God can take the
pieces of our lives
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and make something beautiful
and redeem the situation.
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So He's both the
Creator and the Redeemer.
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Well, what's going
on in our world today
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regarding
relationships is basically just,
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just mass giving
up on relationships
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for lack of a better term.
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Mass relationship
attrition we could say.
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And the divorce
rate is, you know,
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about half of
marriages end in divorce
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and that doesn't
even include the ones
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that are in kind of an
emotional state of divorce
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that haven't yet
been legally divorced.
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You know what it seems like,
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like a lot of
people don't take that time
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upfront to invest
into that relationship,
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so I mean like, you
know, you see all these people
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going to school
for however many years,
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getting master's degrees
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and doctorates
and all this stuff.
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But when entering into
lifelong commitment, it's,
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"Hey, I like you,
meet me at the altar."
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Exactly.
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You know, I mean, who does that?
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We spend thousands, tens
and thousands of dollars,
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sometimes hundreds
and thousands of dollars
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on education that will train us
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to specialize in
a specific career
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that we're going to then raise
to an art form of excellence.
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And we spend
relatively zero time
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actually learning
the art and science
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of how to love and be loved.
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Yes, yes. You know.
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And then we fail at that,
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we may excel at our
career but we fail at that.
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And what do you
really care about
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when you're
lying on your deathbed?
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Oh, I should have gone for
that other doctorate degree
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or I wish I'd
gotten that promotion
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or I wish I'd made more money
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that you can't
take with you to heaven.
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Yeah.
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No, you're thinking about
I wish I loved people more.
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Yeah.
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You know, so we
need to really focus in
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on what makes a
relationship work
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and educate people about
it, educate ourselves about it.
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But that's God's ideal
is one partner for life.
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Jesus said very
strong things about divorce
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since and many
authorities feel that
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that it really comes down
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to whether you're
going to remarry or not,
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that the issue with God
is divorce and remarriage.
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For reasons other than adultery
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are a form of just copping out.
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And really if you're
marrying and divorcing
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and marrying again
and divorcing again.
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For no reason other than
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you don't want to
do the work necessary
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and give up your
selfishness necessary
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to continue a
relationship past that point
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where it's gratifying,
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you're basically engaging
in a form of a serial polygamy,
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that's what I call it.
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Where you have your harem
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but it's
stretched out over time.
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Now I'm not trying to
say that to be hard on people
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that have been through
divorce and remarriage,
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I'm not judging you,
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I'm not in a place
where I need to judge you
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but I will say that
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as human beings
we tend to cop out
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on that hard work that
a relationship requires.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And every human relationship,
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not just marriage
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but every relationship
will initially be characterized
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by what we call
natural affection.
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So God has given us natural
affection as human beings.
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We don't have to be connected
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to the
supernatural source of love
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to love in a natural way.
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The kinds of natural
affection are basically three,
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and they reflect three,
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they're reflected
by three Greek words.
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And CS Lewis
wrote a book about this.
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So the first is
storge, it's family love
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and it's specifically the love
between a mother and a child.
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Storge?
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Storge is the Greek word, yeah.
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And then there's phileo
which is friendship love,
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it's that
horizontal, you know camaraderie
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that you have with your friends.
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Thirdly, you have
eros which is romantic love
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that is characterized
by sexual attraction.
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Okay.
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Those are the
natural affections.
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We all have a
certain amount of those.
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You don't have to
be a believer in God
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or in any kind of profound
way connected to the Holy Spirit
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to be able to love
being with your friends
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and fall in love with
someone and get married,
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and even dote on
your own children,
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that's quite natural,
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all of those things are natural.
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The problem is that
eventually natural affection
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will begin to dry up
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and we will miss
out on the supply,
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we won't have enough supply
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to continue in
that relationship.
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Okay.
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And we especially see
this in romantic relationships
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where there's this initial boost
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of dopamine in the brain.
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It's some very interesting
neuroscience takes place
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with falling in love,
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you have a boost of dopamine
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which is the
pleasure neurotransmitter.
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And it's
basically an anticipator
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in neurotransmitter
where you're looking forward
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to something happening.
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So there's this
excitement in the air
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when you're having that
falling in love experience.
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There's also believe it or not,
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some studies have shown
a suppression of serotonin.
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And serotonin is the
natural mood elevator.
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So this is thought to view why
some people that fall in love
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end up obsessing
about their partner.
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Low serotonin
and OCD go together.
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So it's thought that,
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you know, people start obsessing
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because they're
having low serotonin
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but also they're
having adrenaline,
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higher levels of
adrenaline and of course
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surging hormones that
are kind of compensating
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for the low serotonin.
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So there's like this symphony
of chemicals that are happening
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in the falling
in love experience.
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And it's really
basically an unnatural state,
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and no one can
really sustain that
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for an extended period of time,
the longest period of time is,
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you know, one to two years
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that you can
sustain that neurologically
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and then you're going
to come crashing down.
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And some people experience
something like a hangover,
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you know, where they
just come crashing down.
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Are you going to
continue to love that person
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that you've now
married beyond at that point
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where those
chemicals are sustaining
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and the
feelings is the question.
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And see, I think
it also goes back to
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what was your relationship
built on in the first place.
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Yeah.
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You know, because
if it was built on
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false pretenses
or if it was built on
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something shallow.
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Just sexual attraction.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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Then it's gonna fail.
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Then you're not going
to have anything left.
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It's not going
to be sustainable.
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You know what's
interesting too is like
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when you're walking in the mall
or you're at the grocery store
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and you see a man and a woman
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and they're like five
feet apart, you're like,
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"Oh, they've been
married for 20 years,
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they've been
married for 30 years,"
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you know, I
mean, it's that like...
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But don't you love it
when it's the other way
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where there's an old
couple and they're just
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clinging to each
other like spaghetti.
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Absolutely. It's precious.
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I have an Uncle
Jackie and Aunt Joe
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that her name's
Jocelyn but they are,
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they've been married for
years and years and years
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like I look at them, I'm like,
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that's relationship goals
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because they're
so close and I see
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how they attend to
each other's needs.
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Beautiful.
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So basically what's
going on there is God gives us
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the ability to
love and be loved past
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the point of
gratification in two ways.
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He provides a source of
love through His Holy Spirit,
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the Holy Spirit is poured out,
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the love of God is poured out
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through His Holy
Spirit which is given to us.
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Romans 5:5, "So God
is the source of love
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but He's also the
structure of love."
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Because if you go to
the river with a basket,
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you're not going to
take back any water,
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you got to have a vehicle
that can carry or a vessel
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that can carry that water.
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And so our lives have to
be a vessel that God can fill
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and we were able to hold
what He pours out into us.
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And that means living by
eternal principles of right.
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So that's what's
going on in that marriage is
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they're just really
committed to each other
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and that creates a
vessel that can hold that love.
00:09:20.59\00:09:23.83
And so we're all
going to come to that point
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where the love
is gone so we think.
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But the good news is that
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that's exactly
where God wants us,
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He wants to pour His
love out into our lives
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to get us past that point
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so we love
empowered by His Holy Spirit
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from that point forward.
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Nice, so that's
the driving force.
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And so often couples feel like,
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you know, we've run out of love,
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I guess it's over, they're like,
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you know, being in the
middle of the Mojave Desert
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and your car is out of gas.
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And what I say
is and what I think
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the Word of God says is no,
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this is exactly where
I want you, of course,
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you're going to run out
of that chemical explosion
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in your brain,
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but I'm going to keep pouring
00:10:01.80\00:10:03.13
my love out into your heart,
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you're going to be
able to continue to love
00:10:04.53\00:10:06.13
into the future.
00:10:06.17\00:10:07.70
And the marriage experts say
00:10:07.74\00:10:09.47
that the love
moves from, from passion,
00:10:09.50\00:10:12.37
sorry to
compassion at that point
00:10:12.41\00:10:15.01
where you stay with that
person past that threshold.
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So that's what's
really going on with divorce
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and remarriage that is based
just on relational laziness
00:10:20.18\00:10:24.65
or lack of interest or boredom,
00:10:24.69\00:10:27.46
that's just people not staying
00:10:27.49\00:10:29.49
with that
relationship past that threshold
00:10:29.52\00:10:32.46
and relying on God to give them
00:10:32.49\00:10:34.20
what they can't
generate in themselves.
00:10:34.23\00:10:36.77
Yeah. That's
what's going on there.
00:10:36.80\00:10:38.13
Okay.
00:10:38.17\00:10:39.50
And I don't want to get all hard
00:10:39.53\00:10:40.87
and legalistic on them
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'cause they're already probably
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reaping the
consequences of that.
00:10:43.64\00:10:44.97
And there's difficulties
that come with divorce
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and remarriage
that I don't know about
00:10:46.37\00:10:48.71
as a person that's been married
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to the same man
for over 40 years.
00:10:50.11\00:10:52.55
Wow, 40 years?
00:10:52.58\00:10:54.98
Well, we think here,
almost 40 years, sorry.
00:10:55.02\00:10:58.62
Don't mess it up.
00:10:58.65\00:11:00.62
I was thinking when we air
00:11:00.66\00:11:02.19
or is it going to
be a little bit, no,
00:11:02.22\00:11:03.56
it's about 40 years,
almost coming on 40 years, yeah.
00:11:03.59\00:11:05.99
Okay, nice.
00:11:06.03\00:11:07.60
1979.
00:11:07.63\00:11:09.33
Can you believe it?
00:11:09.36\00:11:10.70
I can't even
believe I live that long.
00:11:10.73\00:11:12.43
Wow.
00:11:12.47\00:11:14.24
But that's
what's really going on
00:11:14.27\00:11:15.60
and the Lord wants to
give us that ability to stay in
00:11:15.64\00:11:19.27
and stay with that relationship.
00:11:19.31\00:11:21.11
And it's not about
being hard on people
00:11:21.14\00:11:23.55
that haven't been
able to get that to work.
00:11:23.58\00:11:25.81
And there are
reasons why people leave
00:11:25.85\00:11:27.18
and you know one of
the things I've experienced
00:11:27.22\00:11:28.92
as a counselor is I
used to be very dogmatic
00:11:28.95\00:11:31.02
about divorce and remarriage.
00:11:31.05\00:11:32.85
I'm not as
dogmatic as I used to be
00:11:32.89\00:11:34.36
'cause I see the
inside of what's going on,
00:11:34.39\00:11:37.03
I see what people struggle with
00:11:37.06\00:11:39.06
and the very, very
perplexing problems
00:11:39.09\00:11:41.96
that come upon them.
00:11:42.00\00:11:43.43
And so I just, I feel
very merciful toward people
00:11:43.47\00:11:46.17
and yet I'm really thankful
that God's been able to keep me
00:11:46.20\00:11:48.50
with this one
man that I just loved
00:11:48.54\00:11:51.27
more with each passing day.
00:11:51.31\00:11:52.64
That's a blessing. Yeah, yeah.
00:11:52.67\00:11:54.01
That's truly a blessing.
00:11:54.04\00:11:55.51
What do you want
for your life, Jason?
00:11:55.54\00:11:57.95
I want to be one
and done, meaning one,
00:11:57.98\00:12:02.82
one wife like for life.
00:12:02.85\00:12:05.85
You know, that's what I want
00:12:05.89\00:12:07.46
like a life of
happiness with that wife.
00:12:07.49\00:12:12.83
You know, both
growing closer to God.
00:12:12.86\00:12:15.50
And closer to each other.
00:12:15.53\00:12:16.90
And closer to each other, yeah.
00:12:16.93\00:12:18.27
You know, that's a good choice
because subsequent marriages
00:12:18.30\00:12:21.40
are actually more
likely to end in divorce.
00:12:21.44\00:12:23.67
One study said 41% of
first marriages end in divorce,
00:12:23.71\00:12:28.78
60% of second marriages,
00:12:28.81\00:12:30.88
73% of third
marriages end in divorce.
00:12:30.91\00:12:33.78
Wow, 73%?
00:12:33.82\00:12:36.15
So in other words the
problems just don't just go away
00:12:36.18\00:12:39.55
when you change partners, it,
00:12:39.59\00:12:41.72
you still carry
the biggest problem
00:12:41.76\00:12:44.89
which is often what?
00:12:44.93\00:12:46.80
Self.
00:12:46.83\00:12:48.16
Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
00:12:48.20\00:12:49.53
And that's a
good segue into like,
00:12:49.56\00:12:52.67
you know, you have
to examine yourself.
00:12:52.70\00:12:54.97
That's right.
00:12:55.00\00:12:56.34
Like take a look
at yourself, you know,
00:12:56.37\00:12:57.71
when I used to
manage a restaurant,
00:12:57.74\00:13:00.78
I used to look at applications
and I would look at the reason
00:13:00.81\00:13:03.98
for leaving, and if the
reason for leaving said, oh,
00:13:04.01\00:13:08.28
my supervisor and my
manager did that or that,
00:13:08.32\00:13:11.42
or the other employees or
the staff blaming everybody
00:13:11.45\00:13:14.79
and not taking accountability
for maybe something
00:13:14.82\00:13:17.79
that you've done
in the situation,
00:13:17.83\00:13:19.73
I wouldn't hire those people.
00:13:19.76\00:13:21.10
So if they said, you know,
00:13:21.13\00:13:22.46
I was just being
very unreasonable
00:13:22.50\00:13:23.93
and I left in a fit of anger
00:13:23.97\00:13:25.53
you would be more
likely to hire them?
00:13:25.57\00:13:27.37
Not necessary. Okay.
00:13:27.40\00:13:29.97
Not necessarily.
00:13:30.01\00:13:31.34
But I'm reading
between the lines.
00:13:31.37\00:13:32.84
But that transparency
means a lot, doesn't it?
00:13:32.87\00:13:35.18
Yes, yes.
00:13:35.21\00:13:36.54
And it makes a difference
and if they've learned
00:13:36.58\00:13:38.58
from that situation.
00:13:38.61\00:13:39.95
Yeah.
00:13:39.98\00:13:41.32
You know, maybe we
could yeah discuss something
00:13:41.35\00:13:42.68
but I'd be
little hesitant though.
00:13:42.72\00:13:44.05
That's right.
00:13:44.09\00:13:45.42
And you know in a marriage,
if there's one partner,
00:13:45.45\00:13:48.82
I'm not saying
it's always possible,
00:13:48.86\00:13:50.23
'cause there are abuse
situations that are untenable
00:13:50.26\00:13:52.96
and people just
need to move out.
00:13:52.99\00:13:54.66
But if one partner
exercises godly principles,
00:13:54.70\00:13:58.80
a lot of times it can,
00:13:58.83\00:14:00.17
it can beautify
the whole relationship,
00:14:00.20\00:14:01.80
even if the other
one is less cooperative.
00:14:01.84\00:14:03.44
Yes.
00:14:03.47\00:14:04.81
Yeah, I've seen it. Wow.
00:14:04.84\00:14:06.78
Well, I can't believe it, Jen,
00:14:06.81\00:14:09.71
our time just
goes by super fast.
00:14:09.74\00:14:11.85
That's right.
00:14:11.88\00:14:13.21
We got to tell people
00:14:13.25\00:14:14.58
where they can
get more information.
00:14:14.62\00:14:15.95
Make sure you go
to IntimateClarity.tv,
00:14:15.98\00:14:18.25
get those resources and join us
00:14:18.29\00:14:19.99
on the next program.
00:14:20.02\00:14:21.36
God bless.
00:14:21.39\00:14:22.72