The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to sexuality.
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Parents are cautioned
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this
presentation may be too candid
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for younger audiences.
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Welcome to Intimate Clarity.
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I am Jason
Bradley, and here with me
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is Jennifer Jill Schwirzer.
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And she is a licensed
professional counselor,
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and today we
are going to discuss
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a very important topic,
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and it's a
conversation we need to have.
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That's right.
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Always.
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Jen, what I want to
know is how do people recover
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when they have
been sexually abused.
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That's a really good question.
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We did another
segment on sexual abuse.
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We discovered that
before the age of 18,
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almost 8% of boys
and almost 20% of girls
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have been sexually
abused at some point.
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So it's just far too common,
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and so this is a big question
and it needs a big answer.
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But let me go
back and reestablish
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what I've
reestablished so many times
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and that is that
sexuality is sacred.
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God designed us so that
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that would be a
very special thing
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that would be kept sacred
and we see in Deuteronomy 4:24,
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that God is a consuming fire.
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And we see in
Song of Solomon 8:6,
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speaking of marital love,
that it's like coals of fire.
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So sexuality is sacred.
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It's set apart by God.
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And we see in the story
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of Nadab and
Abihu in Leviticus 10,
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that the two sons of
Aaron brought strange fire
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into the tabernacle,
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and what happened to them?
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You remember?
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You were raised
with Bible stories,
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weren't you?
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I was but I don't remember,
you have to tell, yeah.
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You don't remember?
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Well, a fire came out from God
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and consumed
them at that moment.
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So God did not
want that strange fire
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in that sacred
space and sexuality,
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for each and every
one of his children,
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is a sacred space and
when that sacred space
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is violated by someone
from the outside, God is angry.
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And if it was
Old Testament times
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and the child got abused,
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I think he'd like
be all consuming fire.
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So one of the things
that happens with people
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that have been
through abuse is they ask,
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"Where was God
when this happened?
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Why didn't God do anything?
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Why did God
allow that to happen?"
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Do you want to take that one up?
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Well, sure.
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I think, you know,
that sometimes these...
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First of all, who
is that that's causing
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these things to happen?
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It's not God, it's
the enemy, you know?
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A lot of times you see people
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kind of blame
God, but it's the enemy
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that's causing
these things to happen.
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He is out to
steal, kill and destroy.
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And so God is there
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and it's painful
for Him to see that.
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And do you think He actually
gets angry at the perpetrator,
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He becomes angry at what's done?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I definitely believe
that He becomes angry
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at what's done and,
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you know, unfortunately
sin has to play out.
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Yeah.
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You know, until
the second coming.
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That's right.
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Or we wouldn't see
sin for what it really is.
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Absolutely.
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And, you know, sin
in the New Testament
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is called inequity
sometimes and that word inequity
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is anomia in the Greek
and it means lawlessness.
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Okay.
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So if we expect sin to be fair
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and only affect the
people that deserve it,
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we are expecting
far too much of sin
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'cause it's lawless.
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Yeah.
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God is the one
that's fair and not sin.
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Yeah.
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So we have to kind
of see it for what it is
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and so because of
the rules of engagement
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with the great controversy,
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God has to allow these
things to kind of roll out,
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so that we see them
for what they really are.
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But I think the most important
takeaway for victims of abuse
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is that God is angry
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particularly when the vulnerable
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are oppressed and
exploited by stronger entities.
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God is angry at that
and God is especially angry,
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I think, when
children are violated
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and when their
sacred space is violated.
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And, you know, God
said, "Vengeance is His."
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You know, "Vengeance is
Mine" says the Lord in some...
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I don't know the text but...
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"I will repay."
Exactly, exactly.
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So I mean, you don't know
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how that person
is gonna be impacted,
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the person that's
inflicting the harm.
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You don't know
what's gonna happen to him
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in the long run.
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It will come back to
them. But yeah, yeah.
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Martin Luther King Jr. said,
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"The moral arc of
the universe is long
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but it bends toward justice."
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People reap what
they sow eventually.
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Yup.
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Not as fast as we want
them to because we are so angry.
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Yeah.
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But I think it's very
helpful to victims to know
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that God is angered by
man's inhumanity to man.
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We want to
soften God's character
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so much these days
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and we want to sort of purge Him
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of anything negative
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and make Him into
kind of this designer God
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that's more like a gift card
than a real deity, you know?
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And He has the full gambit
of emotions just like we do,
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only billions of
times more and more intense
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because He is the one
whose image we are made in.
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So God can get
angry. That's a fact.
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And God is angry
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when the strong
exploit the weak.
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And I think
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it's very
therapeutic to share that
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with victims of
abuse, and I do share it
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in the clinical
setting with them, yeah.
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And what is the
typical response that you get?
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Astonishment.
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And the reason is because often
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they are in a family
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that downplayed
what happened to them.
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So sexual abuse
is much more harmful
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when it happens within a family
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because when it
happens in a family,
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it signals not
only the abuse itself
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but it signals the failure
of the protective system.
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Okay.
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So if your father abuses you,
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that's gonna hurt on two counts,
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number one, that you
were abused by someone,
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but number two,
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that your daddy
didn't protect you,
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he harmed you anyway.
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Yeah. And he harmed you.
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So incestuous sexual
abuse is by far the worst form,
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but I would add
quickly that I think
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abuse on the part of clergy
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toward congregants is similar
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in that church is
supposed to be a what?
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A kind of a family system. Yeah.
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And you trust that individual
to represent God to you
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and then they
represent his enemies.
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So those abuses that
are inflected in a system
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that is designed to protect...
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It's like an autoimmune
disease where the very thing
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that's supposed to protect
you ends up attacking you.
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Yup.
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And that's gonna cause more harm
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than generic abuse,
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not that that's not
harmful, it's terribly harmful,
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but it's gonna be
much worse if it's someone
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that was
supposed to be loving you.
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Yeah.
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And there's a few
reasons for that...
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There is that act of betrayal.
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It's extreme betrayal.
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And often, what happens
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in these
dysfunctional system is,
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unhealthy and sinful systems
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I should say, not
just dysfunctional,
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is the victim will go to
someone else in the system
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looking for
justice, looking for support
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and because this system
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is so invested
in the perpetrator,
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who is typically, you
know, an alpha figure,
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who defines and often
provides for that system,
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be it a family or
a church or whatever,
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that individual is
thought to be indispensible,
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people won't confront
the sin in that person,
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they will preserve that
person's ego at all costs
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rather than confront them.
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And so the victim
comes to try to get support
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and encouragement and
help and they are told,
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"No, nothing
wrong happened to you.
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Just forget
about it or forgive,"
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often in a Christian context.
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A guilt trip is literally
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put on the victim to forgive way
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before there is
any reason to forgive
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or any reparations made,
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you should just
forgive that person
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and act like
nothing ever happened
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which is what that really means.
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Wow.
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So they are, kind
of, trying to sweep it
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under the rugs, so to speak.
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That's right. That's right.
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And so that
individual will be retraumatized
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by that denial of
that shutting down process,
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they'll be retraumatized
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and it can really, really
be difficult to unwrap that
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when a person finally
comes to try to get help.
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So bottom-line, you
know, often this systems
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where abuse occurs
need to be dealt with
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in order to help the victim
and sometimes the victim needs
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to see someone
brought to justice.
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You know, I do victim support
for victims of clergy abuse,
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but sometimes I just
feel like just me sympathizing
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with them isn't enough,
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I have to go
after the perpetrator
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and I have to
let that person know
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that I will not
stand for this in church.
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Yeah.
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You know, if I have
to die on that hill,
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I'll die on that hill.
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Yeah. And sometimes I do.
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So I am...
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Anyway, sexual abuse
within a family is more harmful
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because a lot of times,
there is secondary abuse
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and there are some other
things that are going on there.
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A trauma that is unprocessed
can often lead to dissociation
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where the
individual doesn't deal
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with those
intense emotions at all
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and they'll
dissociate from them.
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So then, they don't
learn how to process emotion.
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They often come into adulthood
really deficient in that area.
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And then, also a condition
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we call chronic
limbic brain arousal
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where the fighter flight
response is firing constantly
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and that person is in
a constant state of fear.
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Wow.
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Yeah, so often they
needed to be treated
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for posttraumatic stress.
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Yeah, so all of these
are long term affects.
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They can be.
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So I would suggest
if you are that person,
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if you've been through
abuse, or if you know someone
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or loves someone who has,
00:09:34.94\00:09:36.50
urge them to go to a counselor
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because a
counselor can help them.
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A counselor will listen to them.
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A counselor
generally will believe them,
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a good counselor will.
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You can come to
abidecounseling.com.
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At Abide Counseling,
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we are trained in
how to help victims.
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We believe victims unless
we have some reason not to.
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But generally speaking,
victims coming to counseling
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are not lying.
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They are just trying to get help
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for a difficult
situation, so we will believe...
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Especially when they are paying,
00:10:01.56\00:10:02.90
why are they gonna
pay you for it, so why?
00:10:02.93\00:10:05.23
Exactly. You are so correct.
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So a lot of
times what they need is
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to just tell their story.
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I've sat through
stories of abuse that
00:10:11.71\00:10:13.98
made the hair on the
back of my neck stand up.
00:10:14.01\00:10:16.75
Literally, with one
guy, I almost fainted.
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I won't tell you
what he shared with me
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because I wouldn't
want ever to repeat it.
00:10:20.85\00:10:22.75
I can't repeat it to people.
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They get too freaked out
00:10:24.19\00:10:25.52
but I almost
fainted off my chair
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listening to what
this guy went through.
00:10:27.62\00:10:28.96
But they need to tell someone,
and so they'll tell their story
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and there are
some other treatments
00:10:32.66\00:10:34.00
for
posttraumatic stress disorder.
00:10:34.03\00:10:35.76
There is a
technique that a lady named
00:10:35.80\00:10:38.27
Francine Shapiro developed.
00:10:38.30\00:10:40.34
She was walking in a park
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thinking about
a disturbing event
00:10:41.74\00:10:44.17
and she noticed that
as her eyes moved back
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and forth across
the field of vision,
00:10:46.24\00:10:47.71
it didn't bother her as much.
00:10:47.74\00:10:49.31
So she realized
that by lateralizing,
00:10:49.34\00:10:52.25
the brain enhances
its ability to process
00:10:52.28\00:10:55.15
difficult emotional material.
00:10:55.18\00:10:57.45
So she developed a way called
Eye Movement Desensitization
00:10:57.49\00:11:00.69
and Reprocessing,
seems a little like hypnosis
00:11:00.72\00:11:02.72
but it's not
00:11:02.76\00:11:04.09
because there is no
mind control involved.
00:11:04.13\00:11:05.49
That's the objectionable
feature of hypnosis
00:11:05.53\00:11:07.46
in my thinking.
00:11:07.50\00:11:08.83
Yeah. I just
take clients on walks.
00:11:08.86\00:11:10.73
I say, "Let's talk through this
00:11:10.77\00:11:12.17
and you just keep looking
at the birds, and the clouds,
00:11:12.20\00:11:14.37
and the flowers
and the beautiful wind
00:11:14.40\00:11:15.94
going through the trees
00:11:15.97\00:11:17.31
and we'll talk through
this awful event in your life,
00:11:17.34\00:11:19.31
and we'll see if we
can come to grips with it."
00:11:19.34\00:11:21.78
And sometimes, just
offloading their story like that
00:11:21.81\00:11:24.88
in the right context in
a trust based relationship,
00:11:24.91\00:11:29.08
they can get past it
00:11:29.12\00:11:30.45
and start to just
build a new association
00:11:30.49\00:11:32.35
between that memory and
the ability to stay calm.
00:11:32.39\00:11:35.46
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:35.49\00:11:36.83
I can't imagine how
frustrating it would be to be
00:11:36.86\00:11:43.80
in a situation like that
and then, you go to, like,
00:11:43.83\00:11:46.53
okay, let's say in
a family environment,
00:11:46.57\00:11:48.67
you go to that family member
and you tell them that such
00:11:48.70\00:11:52.47
and such has been
abusing me for x amount of years
00:11:52.51\00:11:56.41
or whatever the case may be
00:11:56.44\00:11:57.88
and they don't even believe you.
00:11:57.91\00:11:59.25
Awful.
00:11:59.28\00:12:00.72
You know, just to
be telling the truth
00:12:00.75\00:12:02.78
and then nobody believing,
00:12:02.82\00:12:04.15
that's got to be so frustrating.
00:12:04.19\00:12:05.85
Yeah, I want to
mention some resources here.
00:12:05.89\00:12:08.09
My friend, Paul Coneff,
00:12:08.12\00:12:09.46
he is a marriage
and family therapist.
00:12:09.49\00:12:10.89
He has developed a system
that is particularly helpful
00:12:10.93\00:12:14.16
to victims of abuse
00:12:14.20\00:12:15.90
and what he
does is he walks them
00:12:15.93\00:12:19.20
with prayer through the cross,
through the passion story.
00:12:19.23\00:12:22.70
And at the outset of
it, they come to the place
00:12:22.74\00:12:26.24
where they start to realize
00:12:26.27\00:12:27.61
that Jesus actually
experienced the same.
00:12:27.64\00:12:29.64
He was betrayed by His people.
00:12:29.68\00:12:31.65
The ultimate
betrayal, crucified.
00:12:31.68\00:12:35.15
We have no king but
Caesar and even abandoned
00:12:35.18\00:12:37.92
by his own disciples,
forsaken by family members.
00:12:37.95\00:12:41.79
He went through all that
and more and often times,
00:12:41.82\00:12:44.96
when the victim sees that,
00:12:44.99\00:12:46.49
they realize that
they have a savior
00:12:46.53\00:12:48.06
who truly empathizes
with them and that in
00:12:48.10\00:12:50.23
and of itself can
be powerfully healing.
00:12:50.27\00:12:52.33
He has a book called,
"The Hidden Half of the Gospel"
00:12:52.37\00:12:54.54
that I recommend
for victims of abuse.
00:12:54.57\00:12:56.27
So abidecounseling.com
is one resource and then,
00:12:56.30\00:13:01.54
we will have others, you know,
00:13:01.58\00:13:03.45
on the homepage of
intimateclarity.tv.
00:13:03.48\00:13:07.68
We will have more
resources for victims
00:13:07.72\00:13:09.55
that need a clue
of what to do next.
00:13:09.58\00:13:12.35
We will have 800 numbers,
places they can reach out to
00:13:12.39\00:13:16.42
that'll line them up
with the help they need.
00:13:16.46\00:13:17.79
Wonderful.
00:13:17.83\00:13:19.16
There are definitely places
where people can get help.
00:13:19.19\00:13:22.00
There are a lot
of resources for...
00:13:22.03\00:13:26.10
Simply because
abuse is just that common.
00:13:26.13\00:13:29.50
There are many, many
resources fortunately for people
00:13:29.54\00:13:32.74
who've been through that.
00:13:32.77\00:13:34.14
But we need to break
the silence in church,
00:13:34.18\00:13:36.04
Jason, because this
secret has gone on too long.
00:13:36.08\00:13:39.01
It happens in families,
00:13:39.05\00:13:40.38
it happens in
religious families.
00:13:40.42\00:13:42.02
It happens in churches.
00:13:42.05\00:13:44.25
Spiritual leaders,
pastors, elders, teachers,
00:13:44.29\00:13:48.12
perpetrate abuse on
students and congregants.
00:13:48.16\00:13:51.66
It's a horrifying thing
00:13:51.69\00:13:54.60
when someone representing God
00:13:54.63\00:13:56.10
actually uses people
for their own pleasure
00:13:56.13\00:13:58.43
and God is gonna
have to deal with them
00:13:58.47\00:14:00.47
because I don't want to have to.
00:14:00.50\00:14:02.60
But I will, for
the victim's sake.
00:14:02.64\00:14:04.97
That's all I'm
gonna say about that.
00:14:05.01\00:14:06.37
Absolutely.
00:14:06.41\00:14:07.74
Well, this has been a
wonderful conversation
00:14:07.78\00:14:11.08
on a very
sensitive topic and you know,
00:14:11.11\00:14:14.62
if you need those resources,
00:14:14.65\00:14:15.98
make sure you go
to intimateclarity.tv
00:14:16.02\00:14:18.92
and we look forward
to seeing you next time.
00:14:18.95\00:14:21.06