The following program
discusses sensitive issues
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related to sexuality.
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Parents are cautioned
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this
presentation may be too candid
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for younger audiences.
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Welcome to Intimate Clarity.
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I am Jason Bradley
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and I am here with
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer.
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She is a licensed
professional counselor,
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and today we are going to
talk about a sensitive topic
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but it's a
conversation we need to have.
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Jen, what are we
talking about, today?
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The title of our program today
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is Clarity on
Relationship Domination.
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What do you mean domination?
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What do I mean by domination?
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How does that
affect the relationship?
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So we talked before
about how God created us.
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He created this wonderful
thing called sexuality,
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and in sexuality,
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one of the most important
characteristics of biblical,
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healthy, godly sexuality
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is a mutuality
between the partners.
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There was an
equality before the fall
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and in a way we are going back
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to that Eden
experience in sexuality,
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entering into the secret chamber
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of our marriage.
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And so there is this
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very important
characteristic of mutuality,
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and what domination is this
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when one person
exercises power over the other
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and control over the other,
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and what I am saying
is that's a love killer.
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The point of sexuality
is to foster, and build,
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and develop marital
love, that's what it's for.
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And as you start
to study neuroscience
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and developmental processes
and all the things involved,
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psychology and you see
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that God knew what He was doing,
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He orchestrated everything
down to the cell level
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to build our capacity
for love within the marriage
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through sexuality.
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But what happens with domination
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is you make love impossible.
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So typical scenario we
offer is a man comes along,
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holds a gun to a
girl's head and says marry me.
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It is just not gonna work.
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Yeah, yeah.
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A kind of a more
modern version of that
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or one that we've
probably all encountered is
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God told me to marry you.
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Have you ever heard
that with the dating world
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and some guy goes to some
girl or a girl comes to a guy
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and says, you
know, God has informed me
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that you ought to be my partner.
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Oh, really?
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Oh, that's a form
of manipulation...
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I'll let you know
when he tells me that.
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Exactly.
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It's so manipulative.
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And what it effectively
does is it makes it impossible
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for that girl to feel
any affection for him at all,
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because control and
affection are incompatible.
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They are mutually exclusive.
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So domination in a
relationship really upsets
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the delicate
balance in that relationship
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that God designed.
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So the reality is
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that our sinful
world is obsessed
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with the love of power,
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but the gospel is all
about the power of love.
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So we see this
opposite thing being manifested
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in the life of God
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that we see
manifested in human life
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because we're
driven by the principles
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of the enemy of God.
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So we are obsessed
with the love of power.
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But God is all
about the power of love
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to where 2 Corinthians 13:4
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said that "He was
crucified in weakness."
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God, the most
powerful being in the universe
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became weak in order
to save us and humans,
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the weakest of all creation
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because of our sinfulness
tried to become powerful
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in order to save ourselves.
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We are crazy.
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We got it all backwards.
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Yeah, it's interesting too
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because like Christ's
strength is made perfect
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in our weakness.
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You know, we have to
recognize our need for Him.
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For Him and we have to
become weak in that process.
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So we see this prophetically
in the Book of Revelation
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where you have a
religious institution,
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a religious system, really,
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that pretty much
takes over the world
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and the religious system
is metaphorized as Babylon.
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Okay.
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And this is, you
know, immoral woman
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but it's this religious system
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that is based on
power, abuse and domination.
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And then, the counter
figure to that is the lamb
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who is really the
central figure of the book.
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You know, we make
Revelation all about the beast
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but it's really about the lamb.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It's the
revelation of Jesus Christ,
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not the revelation of Babylon.
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It's a love story.
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It's a love story,
that's exactly right.
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And so the central figure
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of the Book of
Revelation is the lamb
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and he is the
counter figure to Babylon
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who is all about
control and the abuse of power,
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and the lamb is about laying,
I mean what's a more fragile,
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humble animal than a lamb.
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And yet, God,
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the all powerful God chooses
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to present Himself as a lamb.
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Yeah. That's mind-blowing.
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Yeah. But He does.
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And so He shows
us that true power
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is found in love
and self sacrifice.
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So it's impossible for
us to love one and another
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without that
sacrifice in our sinfulness.
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God himself
couldn't love humanity
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without sacrificing
Himself and He is holy.
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So that self giving,
that humility and self giving
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that really fosters a sense
of equality and partnership
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in a sexual
relationship is essential to it.
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And we can see some pretty
bizarre counterfeits of that
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or abuses of
power in relationships.
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One of them that comes to
mind is sometimes in marriage
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there is one individual
that dominates in the marriage.
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And as I have said
before, it's just so important
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that it's a mutual partnership.
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And even, you know,
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the fact that the
scriptures enlist submission
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of the wife to the husband,
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which I believe is true,
it also enlists the husband
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loving the wife as
Christ loved the church.
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And how did
Christ loved the church?
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He sacrificed Himself for it.
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He did, huh?
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So it's not an
abusive power or domination.
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It's a giving of self
to lift up that person
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in servant leadership.
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So one of the text
that is often abused
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in an abusive
marriage is 1 Corinthians 7:4,
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it says, "The
wife does not authority
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over her own body but
yields it to her husband."
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Men will take that, isolate
it from the passage, and say,
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"I have control of the bedroom.
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It's up to me
what happens and when."
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And they will
violate their wives
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and their lives in the context
of a married relationship.
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But what they've left
out is the second half.
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Because the
second half says that,
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"The wife has authority
over the husband's body."
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So if he could say,
"You have to do this."
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She can say, "No, I
don't want to do this."
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Because she has equal authority
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and what God is
trying to say here is,
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it's a mutual sharing.
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You become so
close and so intimate
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in your relationship
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and so willing to
sacrifice for the other...
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Yes, and...
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That you are willing
to give up your desires
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and your
preferences for the other.
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And as men, you know,
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we are supposed to love our wife
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as Christ loved the church.
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Amen.
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And so, really,
when you look at God,
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He allows us the choice
upon who we want to serve.
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He loves us, He
doesn't force us out of fear
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or anything like that
or domination or anything.
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And if anyone should we allowed
to force people, it's God.
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He is all powerful, He is God,
He knows what's best for us.
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Yup, and He created us.
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Exactly, He can
come along and say,
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I know what's best for you
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so I am going to
force you to do it.
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Yeah.
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You know, it's interesting
'cause some people say
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and let's go back to
submission within marriage.
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Some people say,
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"Well, the wife submits
unquestioningly to the husband
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unless he asks her to
do something immoral."
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I counter that
with what if he asks her
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or what if he
tells her what to eat,
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what to wear, what to say,
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micromanaging her every move.
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It happens. It happens.
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It happens the
other way around too,
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wife on the husband.
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But what if he does that?
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Isn't that a violation
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of a basic principle of freedom?
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If it's someone's...
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Even though he doesn't ask you
to do anything immoral per se.
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Who wants to be a part
of that type of marriage?
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Oh, but people have to,
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people have to suffer with that.
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And we've
talked about, you know,
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when to separate and so forth.
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Another form of
sinful domination
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is what's called BDSM.
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Okay.
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Bondage,
discipline, sadomasochism.
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This has been...
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This is, you know, domination
on steroids so to speak.
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This is a whole subculture
where people become so deviant
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in their sexuality
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that they actually construct
a method of domination,
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and I don't even want to go
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into the
details of how it's done
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because it's just
disgusting to be honest.
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But it's all based
on inflicting pain,
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putting people in
entrapped situations
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and one partner
dominating the other,
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that's the whole premise of it.
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And the sad thing about
that is that what we do sexually
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actually reinforces any feelings
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that we have
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so if we experience
like sexual attraction
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in the context
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of a deviant
situation like that,
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we will be sexually attracted
to that deviancy in the future.
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We actually
develop an appetite for it.
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It's pathetic and...
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Yeah, by
beholding you become change.
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You too and by
participation in something,
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you start to mould to it.
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So there's a little
bit of research about this
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that I've read
and people will say,
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well, this is okay
because everybody signs on it,
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everybody consents.
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It's just adults having
a great time together...
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Doesn't make it right.
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But if you dig...
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Exactly, even if
you are consenting,
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it's still wrong.
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It turns out that women
are in the submissive role
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in BDSM 75% of the time.
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And it also turns out
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that those who
play the dominant roles
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are less
agreeable than the average,
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this is a scientific research.
00:09:59.96\00:10:01.80
So I just say, like,
00:10:01.83\00:10:03.16
what if a bunch
of mean spirited men,
00:10:03.20\00:10:04.73
you know, are dominating women
00:10:04.77\00:10:06.10
and what's new
about that, you know?
00:10:06.13\00:10:07.47
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:07.50\00:10:08.84
That's terrible and I don't care
00:10:08.87\00:10:10.21
if the woman said it's okay
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because they are
not thinking straight
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if they sign on,
anybody that signs on for BDSM.
00:10:12.97\00:10:15.04
Yeah, 'cause you see
that the reverse of it too,
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you see the woman
being the dominaterics...
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It does happen.
00:10:20.32\00:10:21.65
And the man, you know,
being dominated or whatever
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and that's whole weird...
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It's just weird. It's weird.
00:10:26.96\00:10:28.52
Everything that, you
know, comes out us these days
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through the
media about sexuality,
00:10:31.59\00:10:34.76
pretty much everything
is just weird like you said.
00:10:34.80\00:10:38.07
Yeah, and I am
not analyst to say it.
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See the enemy can deviate.
00:10:40.70\00:10:42.67
He can't create.
00:10:42.70\00:10:44.04
God is the creator.
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He creates this
beautiful model of sexuality
00:10:45.44\00:10:47.28
and it's so
perfect in its design,
00:10:47.31\00:10:50.11
and the enemy gets
jealous and frustrated
00:10:50.15\00:10:53.08
that he can't do that.
00:10:53.11\00:10:54.45
So what he does is
he takes God's design
00:10:54.48\00:10:56.18
and he twists it
and he deviates it,
00:10:56.22\00:10:58.35
and he is constantly
coming up with new deviations.
00:10:58.39\00:11:00.36
But you know what?
00:11:00.39\00:11:01.72
I am not impressed by that.
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It doesn't take
any kind of brain power
00:11:03.32\00:11:05.66
or capability to deviate
something someone else did.
00:11:05.69\00:11:08.00
No.
00:11:08.03\00:11:09.36
You know, it's a
form of plagiarism.
00:11:09.40\00:11:10.73
Yup.
00:11:10.77\00:11:12.10
It's for weps, you know. Yeah.
00:11:12.13\00:11:13.47
So I am not impressed by it.
00:11:13.50\00:11:14.84
But he is
continuing to come up with new
00:11:14.87\00:11:16.67
and more
ridiculous forms of deviancy.
00:11:16.71\00:11:18.64
And no originality there.
00:11:18.67\00:11:20.58
That's right. That's right.
00:11:20.61\00:11:21.94
So how do you feel
talking about this?
00:11:21.98\00:11:23.31
Is it, like, are you fainting?
00:11:23.35\00:11:25.31
It's...
00:11:25.35\00:11:26.68
Yeah, my thing
is, like, I just...
00:11:26.72\00:11:28.95
I don't understand why anybody
would want to behave like that
00:11:28.98\00:11:31.85
and I don't understand
00:11:31.89\00:11:33.36
why anybody would want to be
00:11:33.39\00:11:35.29
on the receiving end of
that type of behavior, you know,
00:11:35.32\00:11:38.23
that's not true love,
that's not genuine love.
00:11:38.26\00:11:41.60
Why would you want to do that?
00:11:41.63\00:11:43.00
Well, I'll answer that.
00:11:43.03\00:11:44.63
I think that often an
appetite for that kind of thing
00:11:44.67\00:11:48.64
is preceded by abuse.
00:11:48.67\00:11:50.57
So what our
first sexual experience
00:11:50.61\00:11:53.78
tends to format us and
create attractions in us
00:11:53.81\00:11:58.05
to good things
or deviant things.
00:11:58.08\00:12:00.82
So a child who
is not yet formed,
00:12:00.85\00:12:03.55
you know,
emotionally, psychologically,
00:12:03.59\00:12:05.09
and sexually,
encounters an abuse situation
00:12:05.12\00:12:08.09
and it's
perpetrated on by someone
00:12:08.12\00:12:09.66
that's into that kind of thing,
00:12:09.69\00:12:11.03
they are going to develop an...
00:12:11.06\00:12:12.39
They could, they could
develop a total aversion to it,
00:12:12.43\00:12:15.06
they could sustain trauma.
00:12:15.10\00:12:16.87
People respond
differently to different things
00:12:16.90\00:12:18.50
but sometimes they can develop
an appetite or curiosity.
00:12:18.53\00:12:22.50
The internet can lead a
young person to see something
00:12:22.54\00:12:26.54
that's disgusting
00:12:26.57\00:12:28.71
but fascinating
at the same time.
00:12:28.74\00:12:30.48
And they can start to expose
themselves continually to it.
00:12:30.51\00:12:33.28
Sometimes it's
a gradual process.
00:12:33.31\00:12:35.78
And we need to put net
filters on all of our computers
00:12:35.82\00:12:38.55
in our homes when we
are raising children.
00:12:38.59\00:12:40.52
We need to be vigilant.
00:12:40.56\00:12:42.12
Never has so much
garbage been available,
00:12:42.16\00:12:46.29
so readily
available to our children.
00:12:46.33\00:12:49.20
Yup.
00:12:49.23\00:12:50.57
Technology is everywhere
and parents need to be vigilant
00:12:50.60\00:12:52.67
in protecting
their children from it.
00:12:52.70\00:12:54.40
And watch what
they are watching on TV.
00:12:54.44\00:12:56.04
Yeah.
00:12:56.07\00:12:57.41
Because even in these cartoons,
you are seeing things being...
00:12:57.44\00:12:59.61
Subtle things.
00:12:59.64\00:13:00.98
Yeah, yeah, because
00:13:01.01\00:13:02.34
they are trying
to get to the kids.
00:13:02.38\00:13:03.88
I remember
watching a Disney movie
00:13:03.91\00:13:06.21
with my children
00:13:06.25\00:13:07.58
and in the middle of the movie,
00:13:07.62\00:13:10.82
there was something suggestive,
00:13:10.85\00:13:12.42
I couldn't believe it.
00:13:12.45\00:13:13.79
I looked at my kids and I
was, like, what just happened,
00:13:13.82\00:13:17.33
you know?
00:13:17.36\00:13:18.69
This is supposed to be
wholesome family stuff.
00:13:18.73\00:13:20.96
It was shocking to me. Yeah.
00:13:21.00\00:13:23.47
And I think what it's
doing is it's the enemy working
00:13:23.50\00:13:25.80
through the media
to acculturate people.
00:13:25.83\00:13:28.44
Yeah.
00:13:28.47\00:13:29.80
Children, young children
at younger and younger ages
00:13:29.84\00:13:31.27
to things that even
adults shouldn't be into.
00:13:31.31\00:13:34.28
He wants to program their minds.
00:13:34.31\00:13:35.74
That's right. That's right.
00:13:35.78\00:13:37.28
So the bottom line
is that the takeaway
00:13:37.31\00:13:39.25
is that any kind of dominance
00:13:39.28\00:13:41.45
in a sexual relationship will...
00:13:41.48\00:13:43.65
It's a love killer.
00:13:43.69\00:13:45.02
It's gonna make love in
that relationship impossible.
00:13:45.05\00:13:48.59
And God created us in such a way
00:13:48.62\00:13:51.06
that we can only respond in love
00:13:51.09\00:13:52.93
when there's
mutuality in relationship.
00:13:52.96\00:13:54.70
So we need to strive
00:13:54.73\00:13:56.33
for that idyllic
ideal God's design.
00:13:56.36\00:13:58.93
Absolutely, going
back to the divine design.
00:13:58.97\00:14:02.17
That's right. Absolutely.
00:14:02.20\00:14:03.54
Man, this time has
just gone by too fast.
00:14:03.57\00:14:06.94
We need to show and tell people
00:14:06.98\00:14:08.78
where they can
get more resources.
00:14:08.81\00:14:10.85
So if you want more resources,
go to intimateclarity.tv.
00:14:10.88\00:14:15.42
Get your resources there
and join us on the next program
00:14:15.45\00:14:19.49
of Intimate Clarity.
00:14:19.52\00:14:20.86