Welcome to "Intimate
Clarity," I'm Jason Bradley,
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and I'm here with
Jennifer Jill Schwirzer,
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and she is a
licensed, professional counselor
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and today we're
going to be discussing
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a very sensitive
topic, but it's a conversation
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we will need to have.
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Jen, what is sexual abuse
and how does it affect a person?
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That is a very sensitive
topic and it's one that affects
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many, many people.
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Sexual abuse is whenever
someone who is in any way
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stronger than another
and capable of dominating
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that other -
dominates them for the purpose
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of their own sexual pleasure.
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And so it can occur in a
lot of different contexts
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at any stage, any
age; of course the most
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heart wrenching version of
it is the abuse of children.
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So let me give you
some statistics here...
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Globally, 7.9% of
men and 19.7% of women
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are abused sexually
before the age of 18.
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That's nearly 8%
of men, close to 10%,
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and almost 20% of
women are. So double.
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Abused before the age of
18, now there's a couple of
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qualifiers here...
One is that a lot of abuse
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is not reported -
it's vastly under-reported,
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and if you think about
it, the very systems, families
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and societies where this
kind of thing is condoned
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or ignored, are the very kind
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that would not
want it to come out.
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And so they would have
an incentive to hide it,
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and so there's a lot of
under-reporting of abuse.
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And, in addition
to that, this is only
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before the age of 18,
not including the abuse that
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occurs afterward and
it can continue to happen,
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even after the age of 18.
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The only kind of
abuse is not child abuse,
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it's a very broad thing.
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So it's quite a
heart wrenching problem
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and it's a very,
very prevalent problem.
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You know, it's probably
under-reported too because
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sometimes these people
are probably feeling shame.
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You know, sometimes
the victims feel ashamed,
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and sometimes they
might feel like they brought
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it on themselves,
what is that called,
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is there a name for that?
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Survivor's shame, survivor's
guilt, victim shaming.
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A lot of times, the
system they're a part of
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shames them when
they try to report it.
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Oftentimes they come
with an allegation...
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Say for instance,
they experience abuse
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within the family,
they try to tell another
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family member and
they're shamed by the family
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because the family
is incentivized NOT to
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believe the worst
about, for instance,
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the alpha male of
the tribe, so-to-speak...
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So the child will
experience secondary disturbance
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when they try to report
it, and they'll walk away
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with a lot of "imposed
shame" is what I would call it.
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And then they'll
internalize that shame,
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it will become internalized
shame and they'll then
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carry it with them
into their adult life.
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It's a tragic thing.
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That's like a
lifelong impact pretty much.
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It can really,
really impact a person,
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and it always
amazes me, as a counselor,
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the severity of the
impact of sexual abuse.
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You know, I counsel
a lot of victims and
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sometimes I just say
to myself, "Are there any,
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particularly women,
that haven't experienced
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any abuse or one of the
most often cited statistics
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is that one-third, one
out of every three women
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is either
sexually abused, raped or
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a violence is
perpetrated on them.
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One out of three women?
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Globally, it's
very, very common.
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Women suffer a lot of
abuse of various kinds,
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and so, you know, people
will suffer as a result of
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these things and I'm amazed
at how many victims there are.
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And often, I'm the
first one to hear about it,
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as the counselor because
oftentimes they come from
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families that shamed
the victim and I end up
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being the one that's hearing
about it for the first time
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and I consider that a
privilege really because
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that individual can
then just tell their story
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to someone who
actually believes them. Yes
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But I'm also amazed at the
severity of the effect of that.
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Even if the abuse
itself was not severe,
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even if it happened in only
an isolated number of cases,
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it wasn't, you know, constant,
it didn't continue over years;
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even if it was just a
few isolated incidents,
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it will still have
a profound impact...
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And one of the things
I do as a counselor is
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I accept that, I don't
shame the victim for having
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such a severe impact or
such severe consequences
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as a result of the abuse.
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So they feel
comfortable in coming to you
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and talking to you
about it, because you're not
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shaming them,
you're listening to them.
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They do. They
addressed the issue.
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They do and that's one of
the difficult things about
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being a counselor is
you believe the person
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that's coming to you
because, in most cases,
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they don't have an
incentive to lie and typically
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when a victim comes
to you, they don't have
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an incentive to lie -
they are actually paying you
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for counseling sessions and
they need to get something done.
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They need to get
through something,
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and so they're very
incentivized to work through it,
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and the chances of them
lying are very, very small,
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very, very small;
however, sometimes in counseling
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you're dealing with a marriage
situation where there is
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an incentive to lie,
but typically, I'll say that
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typically with
victims of sexual abuse,
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when they come to me
reporting something that
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happened to them previously,
they don't have an agenda
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against anyone -
they're just trying to deal with
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the effects of
what they went through.
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So what I do is... I
believe the victim. Okay
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Even if I don't have concrete
proof except their testimony,
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I believe them because in
the vast majority of cases,
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the alleged victim
is telling the truth
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in sexual abuse cases.
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I also work with dealing
with abuse cases in the church.
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I work with various ministries
that help to deal with
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this problem in the church and
we have kind of a rule of thumb
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that the victim is most
likely telling the truth,
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and so we should believe the
victim, but at the same time,
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still ask for evidence
and still seek evidence
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because there are
cases where they do lie.
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Absolutely and you do have
those cases, like you said,
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where there are false
allegations and you're
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tarnishing someone's
reputation and everything.
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Reputation and really
ruining their lives, yeah.
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It does happen, but
when someone alleges being
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sexually abused
by someone falsely,
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there's a couple of
things going on that are
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actually very rare... one
of them is abnormal psychology.
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Most women and I'll
just use women as an example
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because it can happen
to either males or females,
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but most - and I would say
this is true of males more so,
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don't want to be the
one that got abused...
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Like that's not flattering
or that doesn't make me
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feel good about
myself at all. Yeah
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It's not something I
want to be known for,
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and so the fact that they're
coming forward with this thing
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is probably not a
form of attention-seeking.
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But there is an abnormal
psychology that does seek
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attention even if
it's negative attention,
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so that can be happening.
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There could also be a
vendetta, a history with that
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person where you want
to level a playing field
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or settle a score, so you
try to take down that person.
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So those are the cases
in which sometimes there are
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false allegations, but
they are few and far between.
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Most typically when
a victim comes forth,
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they are telling the truth.
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Yes, like why would
you want to lie about that?
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And I would rather
believe them and be fooled,
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than disbelieve
them and take the risk of
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re-traumatizing them.
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So I just go ahead
and, as a general rule,
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I believe the victim,
but I won't necessarily
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go forth, you know,
writing letters against
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the perpetrator or anything
like that until I have evidence.
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Yeah... Yeah, so
that's how I roll.
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But I believe people because
they need to be believed that
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they were truly
abused, and a lot of times,
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it's amazing - just
telling someone your story
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can in and of itself be
powerfully therapeutic...
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And just listening
to that victim and just
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hearing what they've
been through and empathizing
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with them can provide the
basis, the beginning anyway
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of their recovery from it.
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Why do you think that is?
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Well, I think that's
a very good question.
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I think that human beings
are tremendous archivists.
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Look at our history, you
know, look at our history books,
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look at the whole study
of history and how we've
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kept track of our history
down to the minutiae sometimes.
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I think every human being has a
drive to archive their history.
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Now what happens when
you're history entails trauma
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that you haven't shared
with anyone else... is you carry
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that with you and a lot of times
when you share that history
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with another person,
you can then, in a sense,
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distance yourself
from it because you know
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where you can find it,
particularly if that person
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writes it down,
and I do that when I'm
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listening to people, I
take notes and I write it
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down so they know it's
been recorded somewhere.
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I can find it if I need to,
but for now, I can let go of it.
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And it shows you're
paying very close attention too.
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And I care about what they're
saying, it matters to me.
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That's right, so a lot of
times the sexual abuse scenarios
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will produce very
severe symptoms in people,
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and they'll struggle
with anxiety disorders.
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They'll
struggle with depression.
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They'll have
post-traumatic stress
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disorder as a result of
it and other mental health
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issues are much more
prevalent in the population
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people that have
been through abuse.
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Wow! Yeah...
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And so how do they
work through those?
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Well, let me
talk about PTSD. Okay
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PTSD is
"Post-traumatic stress disorder"
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It really shouldn't be
called a disorder because
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a lot of times they are
just responding to something
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that was devastating,
and so they're having
00:10:18.91\00:10:20.72
kind of a normal response
to something devastating,
00:10:20.75\00:10:23.52
and some people feel
like calling it a disorder
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really stigmatizes the
person that has suffered
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this devastating situation.
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So what it basically
is... is we think that normally
00:10:29.96\00:10:34.20
when memories process,
the person is able to remove
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the charge from that
memory, the emotional charge,
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and file the facts about
that memory in their mind. Okay
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But in PTSD, for some
reason, that process goes awry,
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and the person keeps
re-experiencing that memory.
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They're not able to
remove the charge and file it,
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so it's thought that the
mind is trying to bring that
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memory forward
because the person hasn't
00:10:59.89\00:11:02.16
thoroughly processed it.
00:11:02.19\00:11:04.39
So they're basically
re-living that experience
00:11:04.43\00:11:06.93
over and over and over again.
00:11:06.96\00:11:09.23
That's right and it's
thought that it's the mind's
00:11:09.26\00:11:11.10
attempt to get the
memory processed effectively.
00:11:11.13\00:11:15.17
And so that's why
when we talk through these
00:11:15.20\00:11:18.61
traumatic events
in that person's life,
00:11:18.64\00:11:20.54
a lot of times that
enables them to process that
00:11:20.58\00:11:23.48
memory sufficiently to
where they can store the
00:11:23.51\00:11:27.22
memory and the facts
about it without re-living it.
00:11:27.25\00:11:30.42
And it's amazing, people
that have suffered through
00:11:30.45\00:11:33.25
and gone through sexual
abuse, will be able to share
00:11:33.29\00:11:36.09
their story and they will
often go forward and share
00:11:36.12\00:11:38.36
their story for the
benefit of other people,
00:11:38.39\00:11:40.06
and they can just
deadpan, you know,
00:11:40.10\00:11:41.96
be telling the story
of what they went through.
00:11:42.00\00:11:44.27
I'm one of them, I was attacked
by a group of young people
00:11:44.30\00:11:48.47
on the playground and I
think I was 12-13 years old,
00:11:48.50\00:11:52.51
and a group of girls
attacked me and physically
00:11:52.54\00:11:55.01
and sexually abused me
in front of the whole class
00:11:55.04\00:11:57.91
back on the baseball
diamond away from the eyes of
00:11:57.95\00:12:00.58
teachers and staff of the
school and that was a horrible
00:12:00.62\00:12:04.49
trauma to go
through, but I share that,
00:12:04.52\00:12:06.12
I just shared it with
you, I didn't feel a flicker
00:12:06.15\00:12:07.79
of emotion because I processed
it and I've, in fact, gotten to
00:12:07.82\00:12:11.49
the place where I'm actually
grateful that it happened
00:12:11.53\00:12:14.13
because it gives me
credibility with other victims.
00:12:14.16\00:12:16.70
I know how they feel
and I could tell them I went
00:12:16.73\00:12:18.90
through that and it
will give me a little change
00:12:18.93\00:12:21.07
in the bank and
they'll feel more confident.
00:12:21.10\00:12:23.47
Absolutely - they
will be able to identify.
00:12:23.51\00:12:26.07
That's right! And that's
thorough memory processing,
00:12:26.11\00:12:30.38
and that's possible for
anybody out there that's
00:12:30.41\00:12:33.28
dealing with
post-traumatic stress
00:12:33.31\00:12:35.22
as a result of sexual abuse.
00:12:35.25\00:12:37.39
You can get through
this, find a good counselor,
00:12:37.42\00:12:40.56
a good Biblical counselor.
00:12:40.59\00:12:42.32
abidecounseling.com
is a good place to go if
00:12:42.36\00:12:46.33
you're seeking
biblical counseling and that's
00:12:46.36\00:12:49.40
at least a good place to start.
00:12:49.43\00:12:51.03
And you said it
was... abidecounseling?
00:12:51.07\00:12:53.17
abidecounseling.com
It's a network,
00:12:53.20\00:12:56.20
a counseling
network that I manage.
00:12:56.24\00:12:58.04
Start out with a good
counselor and work through
00:12:58.07\00:13:01.34
some of those memories
and you can get through it.
00:13:01.38\00:13:03.28
You get out the
other end it's possible.
00:13:03.35\00:13:05.21
We'll always be
scarred be from these things,
00:13:05.25\00:13:08.78
but we won't always be
sustaining open, gaping
00:13:08.82\00:13:12.29
wounds, you know... we
want to bind the wound.
00:13:12.32\00:13:15.06
We'll always have the
scar, but we'll be able to
00:13:15.09\00:13:18.33
speak through that
scar, just like Jesus speaks
00:13:18.36\00:13:20.60
through His scars to us
of all that He went through
00:13:20.63\00:13:22.96
to save humanity, so it
doesn't have to end here,
00:13:23.00\00:13:26.37
it gets better. Absolutely!
00:13:26.40\00:13:28.24
Yeah, I want to say
that to people that struggle.
00:13:28.27\00:13:30.47
And you know, one of
the things that I found
00:13:30.51\00:13:32.17
when we were talking about
"freeing," like when someone
00:13:32.21\00:13:36.28
shares their testimony
they're, like you said,
00:13:36.31\00:13:38.41
they're re-playing it,
but they see how Christ
00:13:38.45\00:13:40.98
has given them the victory
or how Christ has delivered them
00:13:41.02\00:13:43.82
from the situation -
that has a positive impact
00:13:43.85\00:13:48.36
on that person, and
is that kind of what
00:13:48.39\00:13:49.92
you're saying as well?
00:13:49.96\00:13:51.29
Yeah! When you bring
the God-factor into a sexual
00:13:51.33\00:13:54.43
abuse situation, it
turns everything around
00:13:54.46\00:13:56.30
because, you know, Jesus
said, "The person that offends
00:13:56.33\00:13:58.97
a little one... and
that applies to anyone weaker
00:13:59.00\00:14:01.54
than anyone else,
not just children...
00:14:01.57\00:14:03.41
He says, "They
deserve capital punishment."
00:14:03.44\00:14:05.57
And sometimes, that's
all a victim needs to hear,
00:14:05.61\00:14:07.84
is that God is outraged
by what happened to them.
00:14:07.88\00:14:10.81
There's so much
more we could... I know!
00:14:10.85\00:14:12.98
But again, I
can't wait to talk about
00:14:13.01\00:14:15.78
our next subject.
00:14:15.82\00:14:17.22
Make sure you tune in next
time to "Intimate Clarity."
00:14:17.25\00:14:20.72
God Bless.
00:14:20.76\00:14:24.99