Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Bob
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000481A
|
00:01 Jesus said forgive and you will be forgiven
00:03 and He is speaking about the woman 00:06 who anointed His feet, He says, 00:08 "I say to you her sins which are many are forgiven, 00:13 for she loved much." 00:15 The more we love, the more we forgive, 00:18 the more we are forgiven. 00:20 Please join us today on Issues and Answers, 00:22 as we talk about this critical topic, 00:25 Forgiveness. 00:56 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn, 00:58 and we welcome you once again to Issues and Answers. 01:00 As we came on the air 01:02 if you saw a part of our set was darkened, 01:04 we didn't blow a light, 01:06 we actually have it darkened on purpose 01:08 because our special guest returning with us today is Bob 01:12 and we're talking about 01:14 these 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous. 01:18 And he is not a spokesperson for AA 01:21 because AA has no spokespeople. 01:24 But he's here to share 01:25 his personal experience of going through these steps 01:28 and they're all Christian principles 01:31 that are found in these steps. 01:32 So we have rather darkened his face 01:35 to just honor his anonymity. 01:39 Let me just catch you up-to-date 01:41 if you're just joining us in these series. 01:44 We had so far talked about seven of these steps. 01:48 I'm going to read these steps to you 01:50 in such a way that I am not talking about an alcoholic. 01:53 You can apply it to alcoholism 01:56 or you can apply it to addiction, 01:58 but I think these steps apply to all Christians. 02:02 Listen to this if I read it in that way. 02:04 The first step is "To admit we're powerless over sin, 02:09 that our lives are unmanageable. 02:12 We come to believe that there is a God in heaven, 02:16 a power that is greater than ourselves 02:19 that can restore us to sanity. 02:22 We make a decision to turn our will and our lives 02:25 over to the care of God as we are understanding Him. 02:30 We make a certain and fearless moral 02:33 inventory of ourselves saying, Lord search me, 02:36 show me if there is anything in me 02:38 that's not pleasing to You. 02:40 Then we admit to God, to ourselves, 02:43 and to other human beings the exact nature of our wrongs 02:48 and then we are to be entirely ready 02:51 to have God remove all these defects of character, 02:55 and we humbly ask Him to remove our shortcomings." 03:00 These are steps that AA applies to the alcoholic 03:04 but can you see how they apply to each and every one of us. 03:09 Well, today we're going to talk about the topic of forgiveness, 03:13 covering steps 8 and 9. 03:15 Bob, we want to thank you so much 03:17 for returning today to this program, 03:20 and I'm just gonna pass the baton to you 03:23 and let you get rolling. 03:25 Thank you, Shelley, 03:26 it's a pleasure to be back here. 03:28 You know step 8 and 9 03:30 deal on the surface with making amends, 03:33 first by making a list of all the people we've harmed. 03:35 Step 8 says made a list of all the persons we'd harmed 03:39 and may came willing to make amends to them all. 03:42 And then step 9 is made direct amends 03:44 to such people wherever possible 03:46 except want to do so would injure them or others. 03:50 But it's far more than just making amends, 03:53 it's far more than making things right. 03:57 It has enough of what to do with forgiveness. 03:59 When I first approached this step, 04:02 I was apprehensive to say the least. 04:04 There were lots of people on my list. 04:06 And as I took my... 04:08 People you had hurt? Yes. 04:10 And people that I'd talked about in my fifth step. 04:14 So I used my fourth step 04:16 which was the list of all my resentments and fears 04:19 and the things I was feeling guilty and ashamed off. 04:22 And I used that as a bases to start this list. 04:26 But in our literature it says, 04:27 we need to make an exhaustive list. 04:30 We need to ransack our memory and go as far back as we can. 04:35 Every little slide, every hurt, everything 04:39 that I caused pain for others that I could remember, 04:41 I needed to write those things down. 04:44 Now of course, you know, 04:45 I hurt my mom's feelings a million times. 04:48 One time would be enough to know 04:49 that I hurt her feelings over this or that. 04:52 But if there were instances 04:53 where I remember there was a real scene 04:55 or something that came back to my mind, 04:58 I would write it down. 04:59 My sponsor wisely when I did my fourth step, 05:02 and I did my eighth step reminded me to pray 05:06 before I got started. 05:08 He says, I want you to pray and ask God to remind you 05:11 of everything you need to write down. 05:13 Invoke God's help in other words. 05:18 He asked me to write at least 30 minutes 05:21 and no more than an hour 05:22 because he says, you know, you can exhaust yourself 05:25 if you just spend all your energy in this. 05:27 And he advised that I not let more than a day go by 05:30 without writing on this list, 05:32 because I needed to get it done 05:34 and if I let any length of time pass, 05:37 it would just seem like a daunting task 05:39 that I didn't want to deal with. 05:40 So at the end of it also he would say, 05:43 "Make sure you pray and ask God 05:45 to remove those thoughts from your head." 05:47 You know, I had an image in my mind 05:49 of ebonies or scrooges story, you know, 05:52 the ghost of Christmas past 05:54 that was ragging all these chains with him. 05:57 And the idea that if I'm going to look at every misdeed 06:01 I've ever committed in my life that I can remember, 06:04 I can keep them all on top of me 06:06 and just suffer under that weight, 06:08 and that was not the purpose of this. 06:11 It was to take a really good look at what my life had done, 06:16 to look at the wake of broken hearts 06:19 and hurt feelings that I had left 06:22 in the wake of my life, in my self-centeredness, 06:25 in my selfishness, my dishonesty, 06:28 and what my fear had done to me 06:30 to make me lash out at others, to hurt other people. 06:34 So I started writing this list but very quickly it was obvious 06:39 that there were some people that had hurt me as well. 06:42 Sometimes what I did to them was a result of something 06:46 they did to me in the first place. 06:48 And now I had a different problem I had to deal with. 06:51 I had to deal with forgiveness and one of our books 06:55 "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions" 06:57 talks more specifically about each one of the step. 06:59 It's a commentary if you will, 07:01 on the original directions that were given in the book 07:04 "Alcoholics Anonymous," 07:05 and one line in there stuck out for me and it said, 07:09 "As we prepare to go and ask forgiveness 07:13 for all the things we've done to others. 07:17 It makes sense to begin by forgiving them one and all." 07:22 And that just opened my eyes, I thought oh, oh, 07:26 I'm in trouble. 07:28 Because as probably all of us have, 07:31 there are some hurts that are so deep, 07:33 that there is no way or no way I could see 07:36 that I could ever forgive some of those things 07:38 that others had done to me. 07:41 And I was left with this terrible quandary, 07:44 you know, I remember praying about it 07:46 and it just wouldn't go away. 07:47 I remember trying to forgive people 07:50 but I just didn't have it to give them, 07:52 and I thought how am I going to do this. 07:54 I cannot manufacture this kind of forgiveness 07:58 and I'm happy to say 07:59 and I'm not sure if somebody told me this 08:02 or if I read it somewhere, 08:04 I certainly not negate literature, 08:06 but at some point I was, I had the understanding 08:10 that in order to forgive those deep pains that we have, 08:16 if we don't have it in us 08:17 to give that kind of forgiveness, 08:19 then the only way we can go is to say, 08:22 "God, please give me this forgiveness for this person." 08:25 Absolutely. 08:26 And somehow in the process of taking that forgiveness 08:30 and passing it on to them, 08:33 it cleaned out my heart of the resentment, 08:37 and the anger, and the pain. 08:42 You know, I often wonder 08:45 if God asked us to do something that we cannot do, 08:50 He asks us to forgive. 08:52 I'm reminded of in Matthew 6 08:55 at the end of the Lord's Prayer it says, 08:57 "If you forgive others, then you will be forgiven. 09:01 But if you do not forgive others, 09:02 your heavenly Father will not forgive you." 09:05 I wonder if it's that He won't or if He can't. 09:09 I don't believe He can't forgive us 09:11 if we have a root of bitterness in our heart, 09:14 because whatever He gives us will just disintegrate 09:18 because of that anger and that resentment. 09:21 It's like putting a drop of water 09:23 on a really hot skillet. 09:24 It's going to explode. It's not going to stay there. 09:27 It's not going to cool anything off. 09:30 And, you know, 09:31 nobody with that kind of hatred can go into heaven, 09:34 can be happy in heaven. 09:35 So I know that God long to give us 09:40 that kind of forgiveness for others 09:42 but there are some things 09:43 that we cannot manufacture ourselves. 09:45 And I don't believe the true forgiveness 09:48 is something we can manufacture. 09:49 It's something we can choose to do 09:52 as a deliberate choice to receive forgiveness from God 09:56 and to pass it on to that person. 09:58 At least that's been my experience. 09:59 One I think that's true for everyone. 10:01 I don't think that it's just as Romans 55 says 10:05 that God pours out His love into our hearts 10:08 by the power of the Holy Spirit, 10:10 and what I read from Luke 7:47 at the beginning of the program 10:15 is that we have to, 10:17 if we love much, we are forgiven much, 10:19 it's this idea that as His love pours into our hearts, 10:24 we can look at others through His eyes. 10:27 It is from Him that we receive 10:30 the forgiveness. 10:31 You know, Bobby, I was praying for someone once that, 10:35 well actually, excuse me, I was praying 10:38 and I was holding a deep resentment in my heart. 10:42 Someone who had cost my husband and I 10:46 over a quarter of a million dollars. 10:47 Someone who threatened to kill me 10:50 actually said he had, you know, 10:53 a team out to get me while I was in Europe 10:55 and so I had this for the first time in my life 10:59 I experienced hatred. 11:01 I've never hated anyone before. 11:03 So I found myself praying 11:05 and as I am praying and asking God for forgiveness, 11:08 the still small voice of the Lord, 11:10 you know, where He is impressing, 11:12 the Holy Spirit impresses the thought upon your mind. 11:15 This is the thought that came to me. 11:16 I'll forgive you if you'll forgive him. 11:19 And it's like, you got to be kidding me. 11:22 The long and the short of it is, 11:24 the Lord continued to, 11:28 I mean, He impressed that so strongly in my heart 11:30 that I knew I had to 11:32 and I thought, I don't know how. 11:34 He said, pray for his salvation 11:38 and I didn't want to pray for his salvation. 11:41 That's how much I... 11:44 the disdained I felt for this person. 11:46 It's like he doesn't deserve your salvation. 11:49 Finally I told the Lord, okay, I will do it 11:52 but you know my heart's not in it. 11:54 Interestingly as I began praying for his salvation, 11:58 the Lord poured his love into my heart for that person, 12:02 I saw him as that lost and suffering person. 12:04 I could, I don't believe I would have ever been 12:06 able to forgive him in my own power. 12:11 You know, if somebody has been molested 12:14 especially if there's been incest. 12:16 How does one forgive, 12:18 say a father who has molested them, 12:22 it has to be a supernatural power, 12:25 it has to be from God. 12:26 And it is. 12:28 I do see that quite a bit. 12:29 There are an awful lot of people 12:31 in Alcoholics Anonymous who have been molested. 12:34 In fact the statistics are just daunting. 12:36 I say at least 75% of the girls in AA 12:40 and at least 50% of the men 12:43 and that's an enormous amount of heartache and resentment. 12:48 It's very difficult for them to get pass that. 12:51 Surely. 12:53 And yet they do. They do. 12:55 And they go on to live not only happy lives 12:58 but to be able to pray 13:00 for the people who have harmed them, 13:02 to see them as sick human beings 13:05 in need of their own higher power 13:07 to save them from what has happened. 13:12 I want to talk a little bit about 13:14 the deliberateness of forgiveness. 13:17 We need to be deliberate about forgiveness, 13:20 I believe that. 13:21 There are a couple of stories that I want to tell real quick. 13:24 One is about Clara Barton, 13:25 she was of course the lady that started the Red Cross 13:29 and she was lecturing apparently in Europe 13:31 as I remember the story, I hope I have it right. 13:34 And a man showed up and listened to her lecture 13:37 that it harmed her in a very serious way 13:41 years before. 13:42 And he walked up to her and spoke with her 13:44 and thanked her for her lecture and talked to her. 13:47 And she was very gracious to him 13:48 and her friend, another lady there that was her friend, 13:52 as soon as he walked away she says 13:54 how could you ever even speak to this man 13:56 after what he did to you. 13:59 And Clara turned to her and she smiled and she says, 14:02 I distinctly remember having forgiven, 14:06 forgotten all about that. 14:07 I distinctly remember forgetting all about that. 14:10 That's good. We have to deliberate. 14:12 Another story that comes to mind 14:14 is one that Ruth Graham wrote in one of her books 14:19 and she has talked about this before about a Bedouin. 14:24 An old man who was living, you know, in that, 14:27 in his tent and somebody came running into his tent 14:31 and asked for refuge 14:33 because he was being pursued by band of other men. 14:37 And they came to the door of his tent 14:39 and the old man stood in the door 14:40 and they said, "You need to send him out." 14:43 And he said, "No, he's asked for my protection, 14:45 I will protect him." 14:46 And he says, "But you don't understand, 14:48 this man killed somebody." 14:50 And the old man said, 14:51 "Until he gets a fair trial, I will protect him." 14:54 And he says, "Old man, you don't understand, 14:56 he killed your son." 14:59 And the old man stood there for a moment, visibly shaken 15:03 and then he looked the accusers in the eye 15:06 and he said, "Then he will be my son." 15:10 That's forgiveness at a level 15:13 that I don't understand 15:16 and yet I know it exists 15:17 and I know from the stories we hear 15:20 about people who have children or loved ones murdered 15:24 and they go to the prison 15:25 and they care about that person more 15:29 than they care about hanging on to that hatred and that anger. 15:33 All of this is to say 15:35 that after writing a very long list of people 15:38 that I had harmed 15:40 and having experienced that forgiveness 15:43 that only God could give me to pass on 15:45 to certain people in my life who had hurt me. 15:50 I had the opportunity to start making those amends. 15:53 And I was surprised, most of them went very well. 15:58 Most of the people that I had harmed, 16:00 even the ones I'd owed money to or harmed deeply 16:04 were more than gracious. 16:05 They were so happy to see that, you know, 16:08 and then these are people 16:09 I thought would yell and scream at me, 16:11 but they were genuinely happy to see 16:13 that my life had turned around. 16:16 They were a few that were a little cool 16:20 and I did my very best. 16:22 I have to tell you that making amends 16:24 means making it right, if at all possible, 16:28 to not only mend the relationship, 16:31 not only say, "I'm sorry" 16:33 it's not about saying I'm sorry. 16:34 Restitution. It's restitution. 16:37 If I owed money, I needed to pay it back. 16:39 And in my case there were several instances 16:42 where creditors were looking for me and all the rest in. 16:46 I chose to pay it back with interest, 16:47 not everyone does. 16:49 I think the AA says 16:50 make the best deal you can with them. 16:52 But in my case, you know, 16:54 when they offered me a discounted rate 16:56 or you only have to pay back so much, 16:58 I chose to go back and pay them everything I owed them. 17:02 And that was what I needed to do. 17:05 I'm not telling anyone else to do that, 17:06 but I believe that's the principle. 17:08 There are people I know who have paid 17:10 hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars back 17:13 over very long periods of time. 17:15 But they are faithful in making those payments, to make that, 17:19 to make that right and they are truly free people. 17:24 And I think the Lord honors that. 17:26 I won't use his name but I worked for someone 17:29 who had a syndicated financial column 17:31 and he lived in the Colorado area. 17:35 When he, or may be it was Salt Lake City 17:38 but anyway, when he had been 17:42 in early in his business career, 17:44 he had to file bankruptcy because he got into 17:48 a lot of trouble, millions of dollars. 17:50 I think it was like $8 million but he determined in his heart, 17:55 he would make a comeback and he did and you know what? 17:58 Even though it had been legally wiped away, 18:01 he went back and he paid every penny to the creditors 18:06 who had the slate had been wiped clean in bankruptcy 18:10 and the Lord blessed him in such an incredible way, 18:13 I mean he became a very wealthy man 18:16 because of it I believe it and I think, 18:18 you know, obviously restitution is a principle 18:22 that we find in the Bible. 18:24 And it's quite amazing. 18:27 My dad likes to tell me that, you know, 18:30 when we forgive somebody, 18:35 the biblical principles found in the Bible, 18:38 the principles found in the Bible indicate 18:41 that we are duty bound to do everything we can 18:46 to redeem that person. 18:48 If they have harmed us and we forgive them, 18:52 we need to go back and do everything we can 18:55 for that person. 18:56 That's a concept that's foreign to today's society. 19:00 You know, today society, I like to say that, you know, 19:03 in America anyway we play baseball forgiveness. 19:06 Three strikes and you're out, you know. 19:08 I will never speak to you again. 19:10 I will give you three chances, 19:12 if you burn me once that's my bad. 19:14 Burn me twice I'm really dumb 19:17 and burn me three times, I'm done with you. 19:19 You know, Jesus Himself said, "Forgive them 70 times 7" 19:23 and that's just getting started. 19:25 That's, these are hard concepts and I'm happy to tell you 19:29 that people in AA really struggle, 19:32 but really get a deep understanding 19:34 about this forgiveness, and again, 19:36 probably because we've been forgiven so much ourselves 19:40 that we become people who can forgive 19:44 and who choose to forgive, deliberately choose to forgive. 19:48 Right, that's where the healing comes... 19:49 Absolutely. 19:50 I mean, this is, if you don't get to the root of the problem 19:53 in most people it's the pain of unforgiveness, the bitterness, 19:57 the resentment. 19:59 You can maybe cut off the fruit of it, 20:02 stop the behavior of alcoholism, 20:05 but if you don't get to the root of it, 20:07 and it's true for you and me, 20:08 doesn't matter what the problem is, 20:09 we'll talk about alcoholism, 20:11 but put any problematic behavior in there 20:14 and that's true. 20:17 Here's something that's interesting 20:19 when you know the steps 8 and 9, 20:22 "Make a list of all the persons you've harmed, 20:25 be willing to make amends 20:26 and try to make these direct amends." 20:29 I just believe, 20:30 and I haven't thought of this story in so long. 20:32 There are probably people who are watching from home 20:35 and you're thinking, 20:36 "Well, I have never really done anything 20:37 that I would need to make this list for." 20:39 I remember when I went back to school 20:42 or back to college when I was 28-29 years old 20:47 and one night I was praying and I was reading my Bible, 20:52 it's about 10 o'clock at night, 20:53 and I came upon the passage 20:55 where Jesus was asking the rich man, He said, 21:02 "Why do you call me good? No one's good except God." 21:05 Well, it confused me. 21:06 I didn't realize that Jesus was testing him to see, 21:09 are you saying I am God? 21:10 That didn't, I am thinking, oh, wait a minute, you are, 21:14 why would you even ask that 'cause you are God. 21:16 But then I am going, 21:17 but Lord everybody's always telling me 21:20 what a good person I am. 21:22 They're telling me I have a gift of helps 21:24 and I'm always doing this for that for strangers 21:27 and da da da da da. 21:29 And, so I said, 21:30 "Lord, what do you mean only God is good." 21:33 People tell me how good I am, show me if I'm not good. 21:37 This is like 10:30 to 11 o'clock at night 21:40 and by 6 o'clock in the morning, 21:44 it was an amazing thing. 21:45 It was almost like God was taking me 21:47 on this panoramic, cinematic experience 21:52 showing me where something's I thought 21:55 I was doing that were good. 21:58 I was doing 'cause I needed affirmation 22:01 or I wanted to look good myself. 22:04 I mean, He was just taking me through things 22:08 that I believe that all of us 22:10 have a higher opinion of ourselves than we ought. 22:14 If we can see our self in God's eyes 22:16 would realize there's probably 22:19 every one of us need to make a list like this 22:22 and think, Lord, show me where I've hurt somebody 22:24 especially if we call ourselves Christians. 22:27 Because we can do things that harm the reputation 22:32 in the name of Christ, you know, as Christians, 22:35 that we're supposed to be reflecting His love 22:37 and if we are, 22:38 if we were insensitive for doing something, 22:41 then we need to make amends for. 22:43 There is, there is no doubt that that's true 22:46 and you know another thing that strikes me is 22:49 when we are the recipients of so much grace 22:52 from the people that we ask forgiveness for. 22:57 You know, it can't help but changes. 23:00 In the AA, a lot of meetings you will hear people read 23:03 what they commonly refer to as the 12 promises, 23:07 and I'm not sure I can quote them all 23:09 right off the top off my head, I should be able to but, 23:13 it's really 9 step promises. 23:16 It says if we're painstaking 23:18 about this phase of our development, 23:20 we will be amazed before we're half way through. 23:23 We're going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. 23:26 We will not regret the past 23:27 nor wish to shut the door on it. 23:29 We will comprehend the words serenity 23:31 and we will know peace, 23:33 no matter how far down the scale we've gone, 23:35 we will see how our experience can benefit others. 23:38 That feeling of uselessness and self pity will disappear. 23:42 Our whole outlook on life will change... 23:44 Condemnation is gone. 23:46 And we will suddenly realize that God is doing for us 23:49 what we could not do for ourselves. 23:51 And then it says, are these extravagant promises? 23:55 We think not. 23:57 They will always materialize if we work for them. 24:01 You know, sometimes quickly and sometimes slowly. 24:05 The amazing amount of energy 24:08 that these steps release into our lives, 24:13 into our spiritual lives that growth, 24:15 the spiritual growth that I see in people 24:18 who are practicing these principles 24:21 and putting the effort 24:22 into making these amends is amazing, 24:25 I mean it's like they are transformed 24:28 and I had that experience 24:30 and I suddenly was sitting in a meeting 24:32 and they were reading these steps, these promises 24:35 and I was stunned. 24:37 In fact I was moved to tears. 24:38 I thought, oh, it's happened to me. 24:41 You know, they sounded like 24:42 something that might happen someday, 24:45 other times I thought, well, they've all happened already 24:47 but it was overwhelming to realize in an instant 24:51 that all these things were happening in my life 24:54 and God was doing for me 24:55 what I couldn't possibly do for myself. 24:58 From a selfish, self-centered, 25:00 frightened, lonely, miserable, alcoholic 25:04 to a man who could walk up to somebody 25:07 and look them in the eye, make those amends. 25:11 And never have to cross the street, 25:14 walk into another room, 25:15 avoid somebody that's looking in there. 25:16 Guilt, shame, condemnation went out the window. 25:18 Gone, absolutely gone. 25:20 And today, you know, that's how I am used to living. 25:24 You know, the next step will talk about, 25:26 talks about keeping that going in step 10. 25:29 But today, you know, I don't avoid anybody. 25:34 Even the people that I may not care much about their behavior, 25:37 I don't avoid them. 25:39 I can look at them through other eyes, you know, 25:42 I can remember that there are... 25:44 My sponsor told me one time, he says, 25:47 when I was early in recovery, he says, you know, 25:49 I might come up and say, oh, you met so and so, 25:52 they're one of those summer people 25:54 and the person I am referring to 25:56 isn't gonna know what I'm talking about 25:57 but for you it's code word for some are sicker than others so, 26:02 but, you know, even when I meet summer people on the street, 26:05 so to speak, I don't need to avoid them. 26:09 I have nothing to feel guilty or shameful 26:12 and I can see them through God's eyes 26:15 as people who are struggling, 26:18 people who as we referred to another program 26:20 sometimes are drive drunks, 26:22 you know, that's probably the saddest thing for me 26:24 is to see somebody that is not drinking 26:28 but nothing's changed in their life. 26:30 And to know that they're missing out on the life 26:33 I that I have today. 26:34 You know, I have the life, 26:36 I like to say that second to none 26:37 and better than most, you know, 26:39 I really don't have a second class life today. 26:42 I have a disease that is always there 26:45 but you know what I'm grateful for, 26:47 because it helps me toe the line 26:49 and stay close to the one 26:51 that handles my alcoholism everyday. 26:54 And as long as it's in His hand, 26:56 I've nothing to fear. 26:58 I'm not going to get drunk 27:00 and that's not being cocky, that's being confident. 27:03 And I can have that kind of confidence 27:06 because of these steps 27:07 and because God's crazy about me 27:09 as Cheri Peters likes to say, you know. 27:11 Yes, amen. Amen. 27:13 And it's just, I'm so thankful that you are here 27:17 sharing these steps with us 27:18 because we can see the power of these steps 27:22 and just want to encourage you, you know, 27:24 as you said on a previous program, Bob, 27:27 that there are more people, more alcoholics 27:32 who have been healed in church than anywhere else. 27:37 But this is the last house on the block 27:40 for people that it didn't work in church, 27:43 maybe the church has offended them, 27:45 maybe the church has wounded them, 27:46 or maybe they don't believe in the Lord. 27:49 One thing that's interesting is that 27:50 people who become involved with this 27:52 can get beyond that 27:55 and actually get in touch with God. 27:58 Thank you so much for being here with us today. 28:01 We know that you're gonna be coming back 28:03 to our next program, 28:04 we would be talking about steps 10-12. 28:07 So thank you so much for those of you at home. 28:10 If you know someone 28:12 who is struggling with alcoholism, 28:15 just want to recommend 28:16 that you point them to these programs. 28:19 Thank you, bye. |
Revised 2017-02-09