When someone has
come from crime to Christ
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to the doorsteps of your church,
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what can we as a
church do to help them
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lay a strong foundation
for continued growth in Christ?
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Join us today on
Issues and Answers.
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Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and we're are so glad
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that you're joining us
today on Issues and Answers,
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where we are
continuing to talk about
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how Christ wants us
to interact with people
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who He has set free.
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Set free indeed and who'd
been released from prison.
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So let me just
without further ado
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introduce our special guest.
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We have returning our chief
financial officer for 3ABN,
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Brian Hamilton, who
is also the director
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of 3ABN prison ministries.
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Brian, welcome back.
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Thank you. Good be
here with you, Shelley.
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Always good.
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And we also have Wyatt Allen,
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who is an
evangelist for Amazing Facts
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but more than that, an
author of a book called
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The Least of the
Least: From Crime to Christ.
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You were
sentenced with 20 years,
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you served 14 of those years.
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But that began at the
tender age of 16, right,
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where you were
actually incarcerated
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from the time you were 15,
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and God did
amazing things in your life
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and put you on an amazing path.
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I told him, He put
you on that narrow path
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and it's that
highway to heaven path.
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And now he travels
throughout the United States
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giving evangelistic series
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and sharing the
good news with Christ,
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with everyone else.
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Gentlemen, just thank
you so much for your heart,
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the heart that
you have for Christ,
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and the heart that you
have for the least of the least,
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the ones who have
been incarcerated.
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We talked on our
last program how a church,
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when an inmate can do to
be prepared to be released?
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And what a church can do to be
prepared to receive an inmate?
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And we talked about every,
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the reception should
be the same one of love.
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But with the
managing or handling
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I don't know how to...
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I'm grasping for a word
here but how we incorporate them
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into areas of ministry
depends on their crime.
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It's from person to
person, it's an individual case.
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But now let's talk
about something, Brian,
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I've heard you say
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is rather lacking
in the Adventist church
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and that is the support
for the financial support,
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the idea of...
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like a halfway
house or something
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for people who've
just been released.
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Yeah. Okay.
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Almost every week
when I go into prisons,
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there will be one or
two inmates will come to me
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and say, "I can
parole in two or three months
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but I don't have anywhere to go.
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Can you help me on that?"
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And, you know,
sadly I have to say,
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"I don't have, I don't
know, this I don't have anything
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that we can offer
you in that area."
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I do know of
one place in Florida
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with Brother Jeff Cobb
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who has a transitional
housing for inmates.
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And he told me that
there is a place in Texas
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that just opened up one.
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And then Lemuel Vega
with Christmas Behind Bars
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has a place for one.
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And those were the only
three that I'm aware of,
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now there may be others
and I hope there are others.
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But those were the
only three that I'm aware of
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that are operating by Adventists
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to help in the
transition of an inmate
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coming out of prison.
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Okay?
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And when you think about it,
they've been in there 5 years,
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10 years, 15 years,
they don't own anything,
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all they own could come
out in a cardboard box about...
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That's exactly
how it happens. Yeah.
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And they get one bus ticket
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to take them to wherever
they want that ticket to go
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and that's all they have.
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What did they do if
they don't have a family
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to receive or what if they...
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What do they do?
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Well, that's the
big question there is.
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They don't have any place to go.
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Now there are
various organizations
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that do run transitional housing
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or try to get an
inmate re-established
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but they are far and few
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and they have a
Christian one, you know.
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People don't realize that
Adventists start in prison
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or people who become
Adventists while in prison,
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they view that Adventist
Church is their family.
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But their family
doesn't have anything for them
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when they get out.
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You know, Brian, they
invest all this energy
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in witnessing
to people in prison
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and to help those to
be disciples in prison
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and they grow and
become strong Adventists.
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And then like
the seed is planted
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and then it
takes root and grows up
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but what happens?
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The birds of the air
come and pluck it up.
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When they get out of prison
they have nothing to help them
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be established to, you know,
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be able to make
a success of life.
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And so they're, you
know, it's a huge challenge.
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Well, what
happened in your case?
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Well my case, you know,
again I'm a story of miracles
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and I think anybody
could be a story of miracles.
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But in my case the church,
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I got to know the
prison ministries,
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or the prison ministers,
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they came in and they
kind of vouched for me,
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which interesting
enough if you study
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the story of
Philemon in the Bible,
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Onesimus was the
guy in prison with Paul.
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Paul sent him back
and vouched for him.
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Yeah.
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And so there is a
level of vouching there
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that I think can happens,
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that's why it's
important for the inmate
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to be sure they got it,
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get connected with
people on the outside
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write the pastors, write
the elders in the church.
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Anyway back to it.
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So when I got out, I wasn't
sure where I was gonna go.
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I knew I couldn't
go back to my family
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or my original home.
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And for most people
that's not an option
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because of the environment,
it's just not healthy.
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But the church like a
week before I got out said,
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"We have a place."
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And it kind of came through
last minute and I got out,
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I had an apartment they
furnished through donations,
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their community,
what you call that,
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the food pantry, they
had food in their for me,
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furniture in there for me,
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some furniture I
still have to this day
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that they help me out with.
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And so I...
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It was a fresh start
and they did everything
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that I would wish to it could
be done except get me a job,
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and they just didn't
have those resources but...
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But now they gave
you motivation for a job.
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Tell us what
that motivation was?
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Well, I don't...
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They basically paid
my first month's rent
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in this apartment
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but the second month's rent
was on me and the utilities.
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Well, without a
job knowing that,
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I had a very high
motivation to get out there
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and make some money as
soon as I could to pay that off.
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And again
miracles began to happen,
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I end up moving to another area,
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again if you read the
book you'll find those details.
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But I'm telling
you what I believe,
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when an inmate
takes the initiative
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to do as much as he can himself
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and then the church
is taking the initiative,
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together they can have
a successful transition
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from the outside and inside,
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but there's
exceptional circumstances.
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And I know he is talking about
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transitional housing over there.
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Yeah.
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Lemuel Vega
purchased a used mobile home,
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in a mobile home park
that doesn't cost a lot.
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Okay.
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It's not like
buying a, you know,
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$150,000 home
or a $200,000 home.
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I mean, and so
that's what he purchased
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for transitional housing.
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And he bought it in such an area
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that it would
pass the requirements
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for a sex offender.
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And that's usually the
most stringent qualification.
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So if it passed for that,
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it would probably
pass for anybody else.
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Okay. Okay?
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So that's what he did.
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Then he's made connections
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with other
businesses in the area.
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So that if an inmate comes
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and comes to his
transitional housing,
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then he can take them and
visit a number of businesses
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that might have work potential
for that inmates, okay,
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to help them get started.
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Then 3ABN is committed to
help them with transportation,
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that was one of our
fleet cars that is ready to,
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for us to retire
but still road worthy,
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we would share and then
they would have transportation
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until they can earn enough money
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to buy their own transportation.
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The whole idea is
to get them a job,
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get them so that they can
start learning to manage money,
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buying their own, and
fulfilling their own needs.
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And then as they faithfully work
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usually other
opportunities open up.
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Now with Lemuel you'll also have
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prison ministry opportunity too.
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Because he's running
Christmas Behind Bars.
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So on Sabbaths and
on weekends he would,
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they would have
opportunities to do ministry
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along with again establish.
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So that's what Lemuel did.
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Well, so
basically what you're saying
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is the basic
necessities of life,
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I mean, if all
you're getting is,
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when you released is
a bus ticket somewhere
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and you're dumped.
00:10:15.48\00:10:16.88
You have to have a place to
live, you have to have food.
00:10:16.91\00:10:19.98
And no wonder so many people
return to crimes is, you know,
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suddenly you come out of
this protected environment
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and if you're thrown out
to the wolves if as it were.
00:10:27.69\00:10:31.56
What you're gonna do to survive,
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that instinct of
survival kicks in.
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Now, I want to speak on...
00:10:35.90\00:10:38.57
I don't think inmate
should have it too easy...
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That's what my question.
00:10:41.54\00:10:42.87
Handouts is not
going to help them out
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because when the
handouts run out, what you got?
00:10:44.77\00:10:47.38
Yes.
00:10:47.41\00:10:48.74
So that's why I think
it is vital for the inmate
00:10:48.78\00:10:51.45
to really study and
prepare for the outside.
00:10:51.48\00:10:55.25
If, you know, understanding
how the credit system works,
00:10:55.28\00:10:57.75
understanding finances,
and opening a bank account
00:10:57.79\00:11:01.12
if you're going to begin...
00:11:01.16\00:11:02.52
And where do they go to
study something like that?
00:11:02.56\00:11:04.59
Oh, I mean, the
materials are at every prison
00:11:04.63\00:11:07.16
across this country,
00:11:07.20\00:11:08.53
federal or
state is going to have
00:11:08.56\00:11:09.96
a library stocked
full of materials.
00:11:10.00\00:11:12.63
Unfortunately, the library
is not as popular as the gym
00:11:12.67\00:11:16.00
or the recreation yard,
00:11:16.04\00:11:17.77
or the poker table, or whatever.
00:11:17.81\00:11:20.84
The library is not
sought out as much,
00:11:20.88\00:11:23.75
but the materials are there.
00:11:23.78\00:11:26.05
You could write
letters to anybody,
00:11:26.08\00:11:28.15
get in touch with
pastors and say, you know,
00:11:28.18\00:11:30.09
"I'll be
getting out in 3 months,
00:11:30.12\00:11:31.45
I'll be getting out in a year,
00:11:31.49\00:11:32.82
what can I do today to prepare?"
00:11:32.85\00:11:34.52
And they will give
practical good advice.
00:11:34.56\00:11:36.99
But I'm just
saying that, you know,
00:11:37.03\00:11:38.79
it is an extraordinary
measure for a church
00:11:38.83\00:11:41.36
to adopt an inmate.
00:11:41.40\00:11:43.06
Therefore it should be
an extraordinary measure
00:11:43.10\00:11:44.87
of the inmate to be adoptable.
00:11:44.90\00:11:46.67
And I think that if the...
00:11:46.70\00:11:48.87
and I say this as a
former inmate myself.
00:11:48.90\00:11:50.94
The reason I'm
so strong on this is
00:11:50.97\00:11:53.14
because there is so many
people looking for handouts.
00:11:53.17\00:11:56.34
Whenever there is
other people out there
00:11:56.38\00:11:57.88
willing to work hard for it.
00:11:57.91\00:12:00.42
And I don't want to lose
my place so I'm working hard
00:12:00.45\00:12:03.72
because somebody else
has burn bridges because hey,
00:12:03.75\00:12:06.49
I'm just looking for
you to do me a favor.
00:12:06.52\00:12:08.96
And whenever
they have the ability
00:12:08.99\00:12:10.73
and the capability to
be a productive citizen
00:12:10.76\00:12:14.63
if they just
take the initiative.
00:12:14.66\00:12:16.30
I'm going to say something
00:12:16.33\00:12:17.67
and that I hope will
not hurt any one's feelings
00:12:17.70\00:12:20.04
but I do know someone
who also went to prison
00:12:20.07\00:12:22.90
at the age of 16 and
came out 20 years later.
00:12:22.94\00:12:26.71
As a 16 year old
not knowing anything,
00:12:26.74\00:12:29.64
I mean, just being, you know,
00:12:29.68\00:12:31.81
and this is
something that I used to make
00:12:31.85\00:12:33.58
a lot of excuses for him.
00:12:33.62\00:12:35.05
Well, you know he's been
locked up since he was 16.
00:12:35.08\00:12:37.52
This is why he can't do this.
00:12:37.55\00:12:39.59
You've changed my mind on that
00:12:39.62\00:12:41.32
because reading
your book and seeing that
00:12:41.36\00:12:44.63
there is a person
if you are watching us
00:12:44.66\00:12:48.96
and you are sitting in a
federal prison right now.
00:12:49.00\00:12:52.83
Please understand,
00:12:52.87\00:12:54.20
you should take a
personal responsibility
00:12:54.24\00:12:58.64
for preparing for your release.
00:12:58.67\00:13:00.84
You need to learn
how the world works.
00:13:00.88\00:13:04.45
So that you can be more
successful when you get out,
00:13:04.48\00:13:08.05
just as you did, it was
an idea of God helping you
00:13:08.08\00:13:11.99
redeem the time.
00:13:12.02\00:13:14.29
I mean, you studied
other languages even
00:13:14.32\00:13:15.89
but it was something
that you made the most
00:13:15.92\00:13:20.03
with the use of your time.
00:13:20.06\00:13:21.40
You could be a better
criminal or a better Christian.
00:13:21.43\00:13:23.06
I went to library one
day to check out a book
00:13:23.10\00:13:25.40
and there are two
workers in the library,
00:13:25.43\00:13:26.80
they were
exchanging meth recipes.
00:13:26.84\00:13:28.47
How to make meth better
when they got out of prison.
00:13:28.50\00:13:30.51
I guarantee they're doing
life on the installment plan.
00:13:30.54\00:13:33.41
Yeah. And they're gonna be back.
00:13:33.44\00:13:35.34
Well, I didn't
want that for me at all.
00:13:35.38\00:13:36.95
Yeah.
00:13:36.98\00:13:38.41
Many of our prisons
today actually have classes
00:13:38.45\00:13:43.95
that are geared and
focused toward helping an inmate
00:13:43.99\00:13:49.99
learn about the transition from
being locked up to being free.
00:13:50.03\00:13:54.90
So they go over
money management,
00:13:54.93\00:13:57.27
they go over how
to be a good husband,
00:13:57.30\00:14:00.70
or a good wife, or, you know,
00:14:00.74\00:14:03.57
they go over how to be a father,
00:14:03.61\00:14:05.87
or a mother to
children because often times
00:14:05.91\00:14:08.61
they weren't a good one
00:14:08.64\00:14:10.11
and they probably didn't
have good mothers or fathers,
00:14:10.15\00:14:13.05
you know, and so they
don't know those things.
00:14:13.08\00:14:15.48
And so there is
opportunities in a prison
00:14:15.52\00:14:18.72
to go to those kind of things.
00:14:18.75\00:14:20.96
But you have to have
the motivation to say,
00:14:20.99\00:14:23.46
"Hey, I want to learn that,
00:14:23.49\00:14:24.83
I want to be
successful when I get out.
00:14:24.86\00:14:27.30
I don't want to
continue doing conning
00:14:27.33\00:14:29.36
and getting easy
money in other words drugs,
00:14:29.40\00:14:32.50
or whatever.
00:14:32.53\00:14:33.87
I want to do it the right way."
00:14:33.90\00:14:35.54
And that transitions back
00:14:35.57\00:14:37.37
into the idea of a prison
ministry helping them out.
00:14:37.41\00:14:40.58
When a person takes
those extraordinary steps
00:14:40.61\00:14:42.91
and can
demonstrate that to a ministry
00:14:42.94\00:14:45.21
that's willing to put out a
lot of money to help you out,
00:14:45.25\00:14:47.58
then, you know,
00:14:47.62\00:14:48.95
I think the ministry
can feel safer doing that.
00:14:48.98\00:14:50.75
I mean, nothing is full proof,
00:14:50.79\00:14:52.35
but I think there should
be an application process
00:14:52.39\00:14:54.66
just like a job.
00:14:54.69\00:14:56.02
There should be,
you know, I would have,
00:14:56.06\00:14:57.59
personally if I was
running a prison ministry
00:14:57.63\00:14:59.09
that assisted inmates
in establishing housing,
00:14:59.13\00:15:01.63
I would have them fill out
a very extensive application.
00:15:01.66\00:15:04.63
I'd have them share
their testimony with me.
00:15:04.67\00:15:06.53
How are you, you know,
how did you find Christ?
00:15:06.57\00:15:09.00
How are you maintaining
your Christian walk today?
00:15:09.04\00:15:11.91
And giving as much
details as possible.
00:15:11.94\00:15:14.18
Again, it's not full
proof but it's something
00:15:14.21\00:15:16.61
that is a way to
demonstrate to the ministry
00:15:16.64\00:15:20.32
that this is
somebody we can work with.
00:15:20.35\00:15:22.75
And if a person is not willing
to do that what's that say?
00:15:22.78\00:15:25.52
They're probably not
willing to go out and...
00:15:25.55\00:15:26.92
I mean, I filled 40 job
applications in my first month.
00:15:26.96\00:15:30.19
You know, I was
rejected 40 times
00:15:30.23\00:15:31.96
but and I did my
very best to get a job,
00:15:31.99\00:15:34.70
God eventually
provided but it was hard.
00:15:34.73\00:15:38.80
And if you're not willing to do
the hard work when you get out,
00:15:38.83\00:15:41.34
or if you're not
willing to do the hard work
00:15:41.37\00:15:42.70
when you're inside,
00:15:42.74\00:15:44.07
then you're not
giving me any assurance
00:15:44.11\00:15:45.64
you can do hard
work when you get out.
00:15:45.67\00:15:47.28
And that's where
having someone come
00:15:47.31\00:15:49.18
and vouch with
you to an employer,
00:15:49.21\00:15:51.98
I think adds an extra measure...
00:15:52.01\00:15:54.15
Yes. Yes.
00:15:54.18\00:15:55.52
Because, you know,
I'm coming as an inmate,
00:15:55.55\00:15:59.49
I've been a felon and
they see felon, you know,
00:15:59.52\00:16:02.86
they're jut saying,
hey, this is not gonna.
00:16:02.89\00:16:04.79
It doesn't matter
what the felon charge is.
00:16:04.83\00:16:06.96
It's scary and so
we'll not go with you,
00:16:07.00\00:16:10.80
but they have someone
come and vouch for you and say,
00:16:10.83\00:16:13.13
"Hey, I've been
working with this young man now
00:16:13.17\00:16:15.14
for three years
or for five years
00:16:15.17\00:16:17.27
and I just want to put
a good word in for him."
00:16:17.31\00:16:19.67
I think that would be helpful.
00:16:19.71\00:16:22.08
The chaplains are
good for that too.
00:16:22.11\00:16:23.45
Yeah.
00:16:23.48\00:16:24.81
And not all
chaplains like Adventists,
00:16:24.85\00:16:26.18
I wish that was not the case.
00:16:26.21\00:16:27.55
But if they, you know,
00:16:27.58\00:16:28.92
you can get in
connected with the chaplain.
00:16:28.95\00:16:30.65
There's some people that
00:16:30.69\00:16:32.02
they never go to
any chapel service ever
00:16:32.05\00:16:33.86
and then they want the
church to help them out.
00:16:33.89\00:16:35.59
Yeah. It's just.
00:16:35.62\00:16:36.96
But the chaplain
can vouch for them,
00:16:36.99\00:16:38.33
that's why a lot
of ministries required
00:16:38.36\00:16:39.89
chaplained referral letters.
00:16:39.93\00:16:42.66
Okay.
00:16:42.70\00:16:44.03
But, I mean, we're
talking about transitional,
00:16:44.07\00:16:48.10
we're talking
about a safety net,
00:16:48.14\00:16:50.14
a safe place to land.
00:16:50.17\00:16:51.81
How long, I mean,
when do you cross the line
00:16:51.84\00:16:54.48
because you don't
want to become a laborer?
00:16:54.51\00:16:56.88
Right.
00:16:56.91\00:16:58.25
How does, I mean,
00:16:58.28\00:16:59.61
there's people
out here who may be,
00:16:59.65\00:17:01.82
you know, this is
stirring something
00:17:01.85\00:17:03.45
and they're saying,
you know, we could do that.
00:17:03.49\00:17:05.75
We could have that
00:17:05.79\00:17:07.12
but they need a
little more guidance.
00:17:07.16\00:17:08.86
Where would you cross the line?
00:17:08.89\00:17:11.69
Well, you've got
the experience on this.
00:17:11.73\00:17:13.36
I don't know what to say.
00:17:13.40\00:17:14.86
Well, you know, first of all...
00:17:14.90\00:17:17.97
You'd need collective wisdom.
00:17:18.00\00:17:19.53
You know, this is and I
want to make this very...
00:17:19.57\00:17:21.24
no one person should make
a decision about how to do,
00:17:21.27\00:17:25.71
work with an inmate
getting out of prison
00:17:25.74\00:17:27.21
because you can get blinded,
00:17:27.24\00:17:28.58
you could really see
through only your eyes
00:17:28.61\00:17:31.71
and I've actually heard
a very dangerous situations
00:17:31.75\00:17:33.75
where a couple assisted a guy
00:17:33.78\00:17:36.38
in his
transition in getting out.
00:17:36.42\00:17:38.32
But then because of
his past of a sex offence,
00:17:38.35\00:17:40.99
he was in very uncomfortable
situation in the church.
00:17:41.02\00:17:45.96
And the... He's
targeting people.
00:17:45.99\00:17:48.53
Certain members felt he was
targeting the younger people
00:17:48.56\00:17:51.10
and taking
advantage of some people,
00:17:51.13\00:17:53.20
and they confronted them.
00:17:53.23\00:17:54.57
No, no, no, that's not
the case and the reason is
00:17:54.60\00:17:56.40
because he became blind
out of the relationship.
00:17:56.44\00:17:59.87
He was actually living with them
00:17:59.91\00:18:01.24
and so I'm not saying
that, that should never happen.
00:18:01.28\00:18:05.31
I'm just saying that
the more people on a council
00:18:05.35\00:18:08.52
or a committee that is involved
the safer it's gonna be.
00:18:08.55\00:18:11.89
And so bring in more people
00:18:11.92\00:18:13.69
and that's you're not
gonna end up crossing any lines
00:18:13.72\00:18:16.99
as long as you have
00:18:17.03\00:18:18.36
the multitude of
counselors they're safe,
00:18:18.39\00:18:19.73
that's what the scripture say.
00:18:19.76\00:18:21.10
And so do that,
00:18:21.13\00:18:23.80
even if yours very small church,
00:18:23.83\00:18:25.60
you can get connected
with your sister churches
00:18:25.63\00:18:27.64
and churches in your district
00:18:27.67\00:18:29.07
and pull money to help this
to be able to finance these,
00:18:29.10\00:18:34.44
whatever you need to do to
help an inmate get established.
00:18:34.48\00:18:37.71
But like the widows
there is a criteria for widow
00:18:37.75\00:18:41.48
and you cannot, it's
just not wise for a church
00:18:41.52\00:18:44.55
to help somebody out
00:18:44.59\00:18:45.92
who is not willing
to meet those criteria.
00:18:45.95\00:18:47.82
So what you are
saying is in the scripture
00:18:47.86\00:18:49.69
when Paul is talking
about supporting the widows,
00:18:49.72\00:18:52.79
he lays down what the criteria.
00:18:52.83\00:18:54.56
Very straight
guidelines for the church
00:18:54.60\00:18:56.53
to support the widow.
00:18:56.56\00:18:58.03
So if the church is
gonna support an inmate,
00:18:58.07\00:18:59.40
I think read those
guidelines through.
00:18:59.43\00:19:01.44
I think there's a lot
of it can be, can overlap.
00:19:01.47\00:19:04.01
But generally it's
just wisdom that you need
00:19:04.04\00:19:07.64
and let the love of Christ reign
00:19:07.68\00:19:09.54
and just don't let
it blind you to the fact
00:19:09.58\00:19:12.25
that not
everybody out there has...
00:19:12.28\00:19:14.92
And if I can add on
your initial question is,
00:19:14.95\00:19:18.25
"Where would you draw the line?"
00:19:18.29\00:19:19.69
I would say customarily
people at a transition like this
00:19:19.72\00:19:24.69
are looking out about a year.
00:19:24.73\00:19:27.23
And so I
wouldn't make a commitment
00:19:27.26\00:19:29.80
to an inmate for
more than a year.
00:19:29.83\00:19:32.90
I would say this
is what we all do
00:19:32.93\00:19:35.67
to help you get
going for a year.
00:19:35.70\00:19:39.17
And then we will
relook at it after that
00:19:39.21\00:19:41.94
if there's still a further need.
00:19:41.98\00:19:43.78
That's good. To
set those goals...
00:19:43.81\00:19:45.75
Right.
00:19:45.78\00:19:47.22
You're free, you're
dependent now a year.
00:19:47.25\00:19:49.25
Because to get a job
00:19:49.28\00:19:51.82
and to get save up
enough money for a car,
00:19:51.85\00:19:56.12
you're not going to do that
in three months or six months,
00:19:56.16\00:19:59.03
you know, it's gonna take a bit.
00:19:59.06\00:20:01.53
And so I would think, we
would be looking at somewhere
00:20:01.56\00:20:05.50
about around a year's time.
00:20:05.53\00:20:07.90
But anything
after that I would say
00:20:07.94\00:20:10.21
they're just on the welfare
program may be, you know...
00:20:10.24\00:20:14.98
So that seems very, I mean,
00:20:15.01\00:20:16.34
a year seems quite
generous to me particularly
00:20:16.38\00:20:18.45
when you said you had 30 days
and they gave you motivation.
00:20:18.48\00:20:22.22
Yeah, but when you
think about it some people
00:20:22.25\00:20:24.69
they don't have a license.
00:20:24.72\00:20:26.05
That's true.
00:20:26.09\00:20:27.42
So how long will it
take him to get a license
00:20:27.46\00:20:29.46
and, you know, and
go through that process?
00:20:29.49\00:20:31.56
Well, sometimes they've DWI,
00:20:31.59\00:20:32.93
and they're not gonna get their
license back for several years.
00:20:32.96\00:20:34.80
Yeah. That's true
too. Get the bicycle.
00:20:34.83\00:20:36.36
And then they're not
gonna get a job in a month.
00:20:36.40\00:20:41.94
It may take two or three
months for them to get a job.
00:20:41.97\00:20:44.51
Right.
00:20:44.54\00:20:45.87
Even if you don't have a crime
and you're looking for job,
00:20:45.91\00:20:48.18
it may take you a
number of months to get a job.
00:20:48.21\00:20:50.85
It all depends
on the connections.
00:20:50.88\00:20:52.95
If you have connections,
pre-connections ahead a time
00:20:52.98\00:20:56.35
where you have the
place for them to stay,
00:20:56.38\00:20:58.75
you have ways to
get in their clothing,
00:20:58.79\00:21:01.22
to get started,
00:21:01.26\00:21:02.59
and you have
transportation for them
00:21:02.62\00:21:04.23
and a job,
00:21:04.26\00:21:05.59
then I would say that
transition would be shorter.
00:21:05.63\00:21:08.23
But if you don't
have those things in line,
00:21:08.26\00:21:10.77
then the transition is
little longer, you know.
00:21:10.80\00:21:13.23
It's occurring to me, gentlemen,
00:21:13.27\00:21:14.84
as we're sitting and talking
00:21:14.87\00:21:16.37
and, Wyatt, you can
probably answer this,
00:21:16.40\00:21:20.04
as much as an inmate
looks forward to being released,
00:21:20.08\00:21:24.78
it's a scary prospect.
00:21:24.81\00:21:26.15
Oh, it is. To be released.
00:21:26.18\00:21:27.52
Very scary.
00:21:27.55\00:21:28.88
But you have to
make that determination
00:21:28.92\00:21:31.75
if you are about to be released
whether you're male or female,
00:21:31.79\00:21:35.22
if you want to live life
00:21:35.26\00:21:38.16
on the
installment plan as you said,
00:21:38.19\00:21:40.30
if you don't have
an intentional plan
00:21:40.33\00:21:45.43
to walk on the
straight narrow path,
00:21:45.47\00:21:50.07
you're going to end
up back in prison again.
00:21:50.11\00:21:52.84
So it's scary
because you're, you know,
00:21:52.87\00:21:57.05
I'm sitting
here and I'm thinking
00:21:57.08\00:21:58.51
may be there's some
inmate that's going, wow,
00:21:58.55\00:22:00.22
I didn't know the church
would receive me with such,
00:22:00.25\00:22:03.22
you know, ambivalence.
00:22:03.25\00:22:04.59
It happens.
00:22:04.62\00:22:05.95
But the world, you know,
00:22:05.99\00:22:07.66
are always going to
be hard to get a job
00:22:07.69\00:22:09.69
as you said
it's hard everywhere.
00:22:09.72\00:22:11.59
Yeah.
00:22:11.63\00:22:13.16
But if you don't have
that absolute intentional plan
00:22:13.19\00:22:18.30
of no matter what it takes,
I'm gonna follow the Lord,
00:22:18.33\00:22:21.97
I'm going to stay,
you know, clean and sober,
00:22:22.00\00:22:24.97
I'm gonna do this
00:22:25.01\00:22:26.34
and I'm gonna
do that as you did.
00:22:26.37\00:22:28.58
Then you're
probably setting yourself up
00:22:28.61\00:22:30.75
for failure right away.
00:22:30.78\00:22:32.18
It starts, you got to
be connected with Christ,
00:22:32.21\00:22:35.38
you've got to have a
personal walk with Him,
00:22:35.42\00:22:38.39
you've got to be spending your
time in the word daily prayer
00:22:38.42\00:22:41.36
because, listen, if
you're not truly converted.
00:22:41.39\00:22:45.49
I'm not saying you're
going to have troubles,
00:22:45.53\00:22:46.86
but if you're
not truly converted,
00:22:46.90\00:22:48.23
you're doomed for failure.
00:22:48.26\00:22:50.10
But if the church is
helping out an inmate
00:22:50.13\00:22:52.13
who is converted
00:22:52.17\00:22:53.50
and an inmate is looking
for a church to help them
00:22:53.54\00:22:56.17
and they're converted.
00:22:56.20\00:22:57.71
God will do miracles,
00:22:57.74\00:22:59.07
there's a thousand
ways God has provide for us
00:22:59.11\00:23:00.48
of which we know nothing.
00:23:00.51\00:23:02.31
And so I believe
that, that if we as inmates
00:23:02.34\00:23:05.95
take the
initiative as you're saying,
00:23:05.98\00:23:08.08
making sure that
there is nothing in our life
00:23:08.12\00:23:10.75
that's holding us back.
00:23:10.79\00:23:12.12
Making sure our
thoughts are pure, you now,
00:23:12.15\00:23:13.66
especially, you
know, the sex offenders,
00:23:13.69\00:23:16.93
almost all of them had
the root in pornography
00:23:16.96\00:23:19.13
and yet I get out of prison,
00:23:19.16\00:23:20.50
and all the
sudden you got billboards
00:23:20.53\00:23:22.43
that have naked woman
00:23:22.46\00:23:23.97
and, you know, you have
to deal with this reality
00:23:24.00\00:23:26.97
that they're
getting out into a world
00:23:27.00\00:23:28.90
that saturated with sexuality
00:23:28.94\00:23:30.37
and they've got
to stay pure minded.
00:23:30.41\00:23:31.74
Yes.
00:23:31.77\00:23:33.11
You know, if you
are a drug addict,
00:23:33.14\00:23:34.48
you get out of prison
and find out there are states
00:23:34.51\00:23:35.84
legalizing
marijuana, what you're gonna do?
00:23:35.88\00:23:37.71
So you've got to make sure
00:23:37.75\00:23:39.98
that you are
committed to following Jesus,
00:23:40.02\00:23:42.38
no matter how
hard it's gonna come.
00:23:42.42\00:23:43.99
It was
terrifying my first day out,
00:23:44.02\00:23:46.59
it was terrifying
going to the store,
00:23:46.62\00:23:49.02
and going to the
Goodwill and buying some clothes
00:23:49.06\00:23:51.33
and a suit for
church for my first Sabbath.
00:23:51.36\00:23:53.19
It was terrifying to sit
down on my first job interview
00:23:53.23\00:23:56.43
but I hate to say this,
"Fake it till you make it."
00:23:56.46\00:23:58.83
You heard that
before? I'm not sure.
00:23:58.87\00:24:00.24
You know, instead of
fake it till you make it,
00:24:00.27\00:24:02.90
what I say is, "Faith it."
00:24:02.94\00:24:05.31
I even like that better.
00:24:05.34\00:24:06.68
Faith it until you make it.
00:24:06.71\00:24:08.04
But, you know
what, though sometimes
00:24:08.08\00:24:09.41
you have to force
that smile on your face
00:24:09.44\00:24:10.78
even though
you're scared as can be.
00:24:10.81\00:24:12.18
Yeah.
00:24:12.21\00:24:13.55
But God, listen, but
you put your faith in Him,
00:24:13.58\00:24:14.92
"Faith it till you make it."
00:24:14.95\00:24:16.28
I love it. God will provide.
00:24:16.32\00:24:17.89
Yeah. He will support you.
00:24:17.92\00:24:19.25
Amen.
00:24:19.29\00:24:20.62
Also if anyone
thinking about this idea
00:24:20.66\00:24:23.12
of getting involved
in transition housing,
00:24:23.16\00:24:27.43
it's important that you
have certain boundaries.
00:24:27.46\00:24:30.67
For instance, there will
be no alcohol in this home,
00:24:30.70\00:24:36.07
there will be television,
00:24:36.10\00:24:38.21
we'll determine the television
00:24:38.24\00:24:40.61
what programs are
on that television,
00:24:40.64\00:24:43.04
whether it will be
Christian television...
00:24:43.08\00:24:45.61
MySDA box.
00:24:45.65\00:24:46.98
Yeah. Right.
00:24:47.02\00:24:48.35
Right. Okay.
00:24:48.38\00:24:49.72
We expect that you will
not be bringing people over
00:24:49.75\00:24:52.75
for sexual relationships.
00:24:52.79\00:24:57.99
You should be want to come
to church into Sabbath school.
00:24:58.03\00:25:01.96
We want you to be
at prayer meeting.
00:25:02.00\00:25:04.53
If there is Bible
study is being given,
00:25:04.57\00:25:06.30
we want you to
be involved in that.
00:25:06.33\00:25:08.90
We expect that the
house will be kept clean
00:25:08.94\00:25:12.37
and the yard mowed,
00:25:12.41\00:25:13.74
we'll provide the
lawn mower in that but
00:25:13.78\00:25:16.08
and you take out the trash.
00:25:16.11\00:25:17.61
We're not gonna take
out the trash for you
00:25:17.65\00:25:19.68
and it's not gonna grow
and just pile up in the house.
00:25:19.71\00:25:23.85
These are the
rules of this house.
00:25:23.89\00:25:26.25
And if you want to come
and join us in this situation,
00:25:26.29\00:25:29.76
then this is some
things we expect from you.
00:25:29.79\00:25:32.79
And so those are some boundaries
00:25:32.83\00:25:34.53
that help them learn, this is,
00:25:34.56\00:25:37.00
life is real and
this is how you live life,
00:25:37.03\00:25:39.40
and are
successful at living life.
00:25:39.43\00:25:41.30
And don't be afraid to say that,
00:25:41.34\00:25:42.67
they've been around
boundaries for a long time
00:25:42.70\00:25:44.04
when they are in prison.
00:25:44.07\00:25:45.41
They're used to boundaries,
don't be afraid of that.
00:25:45.44\00:25:46.84
Yeah.
00:25:46.88\00:25:48.31
And these are
boundaries to help you grow.
00:25:48.34\00:25:50.18
Right.
00:25:50.21\00:25:51.55
You know, it's just, I
think that's what the Lord did
00:25:51.58\00:25:53.65
when He gave us
the Ten Commandments,
00:25:53.68\00:25:55.02
He said, "These
are the boundaries
00:25:55.05\00:25:56.69
in which you will
be safe, you can run,
00:25:56.72\00:25:59.45
you can run in my commandments.
00:25:59.49\00:26:01.26
But as long as you stay
within these boundaries,
00:26:01.29\00:26:03.56
you're going to
have a beautiful life."
00:26:03.59\00:26:05.36
And it's nothing
that we should look at
00:26:05.39\00:26:07.43
that is restrictive on us,
00:26:07.46\00:26:09.86
it's just where we
find the greatest freedom
00:26:09.90\00:26:11.93
within those boundaries,
and that is something you do.
00:26:11.97\00:26:13.44
God wants to bless
00:26:13.47\00:26:14.87
but we want to put
ourselves in a position
00:26:14.90\00:26:16.81
where He can bless us.
00:26:16.84\00:26:18.17
Amen.
00:26:18.21\00:26:20.51
I don't
remember the text exactly
00:26:20.54\00:26:24.28
but the one that, you know,
00:26:24.31\00:26:28.52
so you don't have
clothes and we say,
00:26:28.55\00:26:30.59
we'll pray for you,
and you don't have food,
00:26:30.62\00:26:32.39
and we'll pray for you."
00:26:32.42\00:26:33.76
And, you know, this is one way
00:26:33.79\00:26:36.26
of actually providing the food,
clothes and helping the person
00:26:36.29\00:26:41.43
as you pray for them you see...
00:26:41.46\00:26:42.80
Absolutely.
00:26:42.83\00:26:44.17
And this is a step further.
00:26:44.20\00:26:45.90
What you're
quoting is from James 1
00:26:45.93\00:26:47.30
but one of the way John
said in 1 John was that,
00:26:47.34\00:26:51.24
you know, love in with
action not just with words.
00:26:51.27\00:26:55.64
Right.
00:26:55.68\00:26:57.01
I mean, if you're
gonna love in truth
00:26:57.05\00:26:58.38
its action, not just words.
00:26:58.41\00:26:59.88
There's a ministry in Alabama,
00:26:59.91\00:27:01.25
United Prison
Ministries International
00:27:01.28\00:27:03.42
that's one that you
left out of your list earlier
00:27:03.45\00:27:04.89
that I thought of.
00:27:04.92\00:27:06.25
They actually, some of
the people they help out,
00:27:06.29\00:27:07.62
they put them on the garden
00:27:07.66\00:27:08.99
and they got them
working for plan so,
00:27:09.02\00:27:11.39
there's those ministries
out there that are like that
00:27:11.43\00:27:13.29
but mostly it's
the local churches
00:27:13.33\00:27:15.00
that are gonna do most
of the prison ministry work
00:27:15.03\00:27:16.97
and praise God
for prison ministries.
00:27:17.00\00:27:18.60
Amen.
00:27:18.63\00:27:19.97
Ministered to me for many
years and when I got out too
00:27:20.00\00:27:22.84
and is ministering to some.
00:27:22.87\00:27:24.81
And praise God for the
miraculous transformation
00:27:24.84\00:27:27.21
in your life and
for all the people
00:27:27.24\00:27:28.84
that He put
there to support you.
00:27:28.88\00:27:31.11
Amen. Brian, final thought?
00:27:31.15\00:27:33.78
This is a challenging area,
but I would encourage anyone,
00:27:33.82\00:27:38.45
pray about it, see if the
Lord want to help you open doors
00:27:38.49\00:27:42.26
to help an inmate in
a very practical way,
00:27:42.29\00:27:46.36
very practical way.
00:27:46.39\00:27:47.73
Thank you so much for
both of you being here today.
00:27:47.76\00:27:50.43
Thank you for your input
on this very important topic.
00:27:50.47\00:27:53.97
And once again
we want to tell you,
00:27:54.00\00:27:57.04
all of you,
we're praying for you.
00:27:57.07\00:27:59.67
And it doesn't
matter if you are in prison
00:27:59.71\00:28:03.85
or out of prison, we're
praying for all of our viewers,
00:28:03.88\00:28:06.95
and we truly love you because
00:28:06.98\00:28:09.78
not because of the
goodness of our heart
00:28:09.82\00:28:11.59
because God pours His
love into our hearts for you,
00:28:11.62\00:28:14.59
we ask for that.
00:28:14.62\00:28:16.06
So may the Lord richly bless you
00:28:16.09\00:28:18.03
and may the
fellowship of the Holly Spirit
00:28:18.06\00:28:19.86
be with you all.
00:28:19.89\00:28:21.23