On our last two programs
we've been talking about
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prison ministry
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and how churches can share
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the unsearchable riches
of Christ with prisoners.
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Today, what we'd
like to do is talk about
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what do you do
when a prisoner shows up
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at your church doors?
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Join us on Issues and Answers.
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Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn,
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and we welcome you once
again to Issues & Answers.
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We've been so blessed
over the past couple of weeks
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as we have spoken
with Wyatt Allen, who,
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the Lord had an amazing
thing in this young man's life,
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took him from crime to Christ
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and He's using
him in a mighty way.
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So we've been talking
about prison ministries
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but we have another
special guest joining us today,
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Wyatt's back but
we've got someone else,
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we wanna talk to you about
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"What do you do
when a prisoner shows up
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on your church door steps?"
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So let me
introduce our special guest
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and Brian Hamilton,
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you are not a stranger to anyone
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who watches 3ABN with frequency.
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Yeah.
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Let's say you are the
Chief Financial Officer for 3ABN
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and you're also the Director
of our prison ministries.
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Give us just a short synopsis
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of what 3ABN's
prison ministry is about.
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Okay.
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Here locally, we
have a team of people
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from our local area churches
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that minister in
three different prisons,
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we have one federal one
in Marion that we minister to
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and two Illinois state prisons,
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then 3ABN also has a department,
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they correspond with inmates
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and we share
Christian literature with them
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as well as Bibles
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and just letters
of encouragement.
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Oftentimes, an
inmate will learn about us
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because they see our
programming on television
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in their facility.
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Yeah, we are in a
lot of facilities,
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most recently we found
out, even Guantanamo Bay.
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Yes, I know,
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that was exciting to learn that.
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Yeah, that was.
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We were some place we
never knew we were at.
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Yes, amen.
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And just recently,
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we just started airing
in prison in Las Cruces,
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New Mexico.
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And I had the privilege
of going with Dan Peek,
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one of our engineers
to that facility and help,
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you know, set it
up and that was fun.
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That was a neat
experience to see.
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Yeah, that is exciting.
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Well, and our
other guest returning,
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now for the third week
in a row is Wyatt Allen.
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Wyatt is an evangelist
for Amazing Facts and, Wyatt,
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it's your story
we've been talking about,
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'From Crime to Christ.'
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He's also the author
of an incredible book,
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one that I highly
recommend for reading of anyone
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but what a special blessing
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it would be to make
certain every prisoner
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you're ministering to,
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gets a copy of this book called
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"Least of The Least,
From Crime to Christ."
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It is all about Wyatt's
story and how he, in prison,
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the Lord helped
him redeem his time
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and this book is...
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It's interesting
how you wrote it, Wyatt,
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because we have
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all of the 28
fundamentals intertwined in this
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but it was as your discovery...
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Right.
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You know, as you
discovered these various things
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from time to time and
what they meant to you.
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Beautiful work.
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Well, gentlemen,
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we're just really
excited to have you both here
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'cause we've got a lot
to talk about but, Brian,
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we've heard Ryan's testimony.
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Tell us how you who
pastored for so many years
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and then you were a
Conference treasurer,
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you became the Chief
Financial Officer for 3ABN,
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you hadn't done prison ministry
during any of those times.
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How did you get
interested in prison ministry?
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Okay, about six
and half years ago,
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we received a phone
call one evening after work
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and that phone call was sort of,
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defining moment in our
life, in our family's life
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and the life of our elder son
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and that phone
call was to tell us
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that he was arrested
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and was being
charged for murder.
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In fact, first degree
murder, that was shocking to us.
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Never had a ticket,
never been in a game,
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never used drugs or alcohol
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and I can't
explain why it happened,
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I just know he was involved
in a very tragic situation...
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Yes.
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And so through
that journey with him,
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in that experience and
what he had to go through,
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it opened ourselves
to a whole new world
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dealing with law
enforcement and judicial systems
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and all of these type of things,
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it's not a user-friendly world.
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Yes.
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But in the process
of being introduced
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to that whole new world,
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we also had our eyes opened
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to a whole new
possibility of ministry.
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Amen.
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Because as I look into
the eyes of inmates now,
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I do every week, as
I look into their faces
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and look into
their eyes, I see my son.
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Amen. Amen.
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Okay? And I know
how I love my son.
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Yes.
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And so then I
translate that same care,
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that same love
for those young men
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that we meet every week.
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Amen, and I have to say
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and I'm not saying
this to lift you up
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but to lift up Jesus, is that,
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you and your
precious wife, Diane...
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Yeah.
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Demonstrated the grace of
God, you were so inspiring
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as you went through this
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because we know
it was for no better,
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for lack of any
other way to express that
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it was a kick in the gut to you.
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Yeah.
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But you went
through the whole experience
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with transparency,
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you were holding on to the Lord,
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you never lost
faith in the Lord.
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As a matter of fact, you
drew closer to one another
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and closer to
God and it was just
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so inspiring to
watch you go through this
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and then to see how
now you look at your son,
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he has since turned his
life totally over to the Lord...
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Yes.
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And you look upon him as
though he were a missionary,
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he got in a mission field...
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Right.
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And it's just
very inspiring so...
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Amen.
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But now let me ask
you, gentlemen, you know,
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just whoever wants
to kick this thing off.
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We've been talking
about prison ministry,
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what do you do,
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how does the church prepare
or how does an inmate prepare,
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maybe, for release?
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How do we prepare for the day
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that someone shows
up on our door step,
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they've just been released?
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How do we treat the
newly released prisoner?
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Well, I think the preparation
should begin long before
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the inmate ever gets
out and, you know, for me,
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the moment I
realized that one day
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I'm gonna have a parole hearing
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and I may possibly
can get out of prison,
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then I'm thinking, "Wow!
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What am I gonna
do when I get out?"
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And so I think the
preparation first has to start
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with the proactive
decisions of an inmate
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who knows they'll be released.
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Now there are some that won't be
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getting out of prison
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and they still have a
ministry inside for them.
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But I just wanna
say, prison ministry,
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it's a very broad but
one of the least focused
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and parts of
prison ministry is that
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the helping of
the inmate to get out,
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to help them get
established into the society
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and to be a productive
citizen, to be a good neighbor
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and obviously, a good Christian.
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But there's a lot of
dynamics that go into that
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and getting involved
in that local church,
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that can be sticky
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depending on the kind of crime
the inmate was involved with.
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But I guess, I can
speak from my experience
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on the
preparation side of an inmate
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and, you know,
there it's a big world
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and I got locked up at 15,
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so I never had
my driving license
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until I got out.
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But that's not
the story for most
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and so the
preparation of getting out,
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you just have to decide
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that I'm no longer gonna
be the person I was before,
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you need to understand
the importance of connecting
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with that local church,
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connecting with the
spiritual leadership
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at that church.
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Meanwhile, stay humble
enough and teachable enough
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to let them help you
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and but on the
practical side of things,
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learning all about finances,
how to balance a check book
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and get your education
if you don't have your GED
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because getting a job,
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you know, that's
gonna be so necessary.
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Getting any practical
skills, what I did was,
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I studied at the library a lot
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and I kept up to
date with the magazines
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and scriptures they had.
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So I knew about new technology,
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I didn't know how
to use a cell phone
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but I knew that cell
phones were out there
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and that pretty
much without one,
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you're gonna be behind times.
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And so I tried to stay up
to date on the new technology
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and I think just the
little things like that,
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better prepared me for
just the reality of life.
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Did you know what
church you would be coming,
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what you would be attending,
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I mean, was there something
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that you had
talked with the pastor
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before you got out?
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Well, sort of, here's the thing.
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The church that assisted me,
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they have a very strong
established prison ministries,
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by that I mean,
there's about four, five people
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in that church, they'd love it.
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And that's about it.
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But what happens is
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they really liked,
they go in and visit
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but they also wanna
help people get established
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when they come out,
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but before me,
several people got out
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and they ended up
either going back to drugs
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or stealing car for the person
that they were helping out
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or just, they even kind
of got burned a few times.
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And so whenever, it
was my turn to get out,
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the church was
like, you know what?
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We've helped some people out
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and it hasn't
turned out too good
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and so they were
really reluctant.
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But the advantage that I had
was that brother Doug Graybill
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and I'm gonna put
his name out there,
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he's a saint, let me tell you.
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He went on the
line for me, he says,
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"Look, I've been coming into
this prison system for like,
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more than 10 years
helping this guy out
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and I've got to
know him pretty good.
00:10:49.81\00:10:51.41
I think we can work with him."
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And I'm so thankful he did that
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because when I
got out of prison,
00:10:54.18\00:10:55.68
the church, it
kind of adopted me
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and this is the
church, I never walked into
00:10:58.92\00:11:00.72
a Seventh-day
Adventist church before,
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I became an
Adventist when I locked up.
00:11:02.12\00:11:03.69
Right, you went
from being a Satanist...
00:11:03.73\00:11:05.63
You got it right
away. To a Christian.
00:11:05.66\00:11:07.36
So Brian, when
the release has come,
00:11:07.40\00:11:13.84
how important is it
00:11:13.87\00:11:15.50
that the church
knows what the crime was
00:11:15.54\00:11:19.74
and is there a difference
in the way for example,
00:11:19.77\00:11:23.08
if someone was
in for armed robbery
00:11:23.11\00:11:26.08
or if someone was in
for, maybe they are petafile
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or have done some kind of
a, committed a sexual crime,
00:11:29.42\00:11:32.82
in my mind, there would
certainly be a difference
00:11:32.85\00:11:35.66
in the way the
church received him
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or may be not
received is the wrong word,
00:11:37.93\00:11:40.10
you should receive him
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but how you process
them... Process them...
00:11:41.50\00:11:43.70
And manage that,
yeah? And manage them, yes.
00:11:43.73\00:11:49.14
If a church hasn't been
involved in prison ministry
00:11:49.17\00:11:52.41
and all of a sudden
someone shows up on their door,
00:11:52.44\00:11:55.61
that's been recent
released and the news gets out.
00:11:55.64\00:11:58.91
The first thing you
have to deal with is fear
00:11:58.95\00:12:02.55
because people
are afraid of anyone
00:12:02.58\00:12:05.42
who has been an inmate
and committed a felony.
00:12:05.45\00:12:08.36
Doesn't matter
what kind of felony,
00:12:08.39\00:12:11.09
and there are
certain ones, of course,
00:12:11.13\00:12:12.46
are worse than
others in our minds,
00:12:12.49\00:12:15.16
so that's where I
think a pastor can help,
00:12:15.20\00:12:19.17
church members even
before an inmate would show up
00:12:19.20\00:12:23.87
by preaching a few
sermons about the subject
00:12:23.91\00:12:27.28
and how you
would deal with someone
00:12:27.31\00:12:30.08
and it would be a nice advantage
00:12:30.11\00:12:32.21
if the church knew ahead of time
00:12:32.25\00:12:33.72
that so and so
is gonna be released
00:12:33.75\00:12:35.52
and they'd like to
come to church here
00:12:35.55\00:12:37.02
and they've asked
to come to church here.
00:12:37.05\00:12:39.52
The pastor can prepare
00:12:39.55\00:12:41.19
the church members ahead of time
00:12:41.22\00:12:44.76
with how to relate to someone
who has committed a crime
00:12:44.79\00:12:49.00
and now has served their time
00:12:49.03\00:12:51.07
and wants to come and
be a part of the family.
00:12:51.10\00:12:53.13
So I think that's,
dealing with fear is the first,
00:12:53.17\00:12:56.94
you know, important thing,
then the nature of the crime.
00:12:56.97\00:13:02.14
I remember, as a secretary
at one of our conferences,
00:13:02.18\00:13:06.61
I had to go and help a
church through a situation
00:13:06.65\00:13:10.32
where a sex offender had come
00:13:10.35\00:13:13.05
and started
attending their local church
00:13:13.09\00:13:16.66
and because of the
nature of the crime,
00:13:16.69\00:13:20.10
it happened to be one
committed against young people,
00:13:20.13\00:13:24.93
they were quite concerned about
his attending in their midst
00:13:24.97\00:13:29.97
because they have
children in church
00:13:30.01\00:13:31.57
and they don't wanna
see any children hurt
00:13:31.61\00:13:33.44
but at the same time,
00:13:33.48\00:13:34.81
they did want to
minister to the inmate
00:13:34.84\00:13:37.25
and they want to welcome him.
00:13:37.28\00:13:38.61
So how did you relate to that?
00:13:38.65\00:13:40.35
Yeah.
00:13:40.38\00:13:41.72
What we did is
00:13:41.75\00:13:44.89
we met with the
board and the elders
00:13:44.92\00:13:49.39
and discussed, what kind
of accountability did we feel
00:13:49.42\00:13:53.76
that we should have
in place for this inmate
00:13:53.80\00:13:56.97
for the church's protection
as well as his protection?
00:13:57.00\00:14:01.74
Because, you know, you
could be wrongly accused
00:14:01.77\00:14:04.24
by someone who's afraid of you,
00:14:04.27\00:14:06.31
you could be wrongly accused
and be right back in again...
00:14:06.34\00:14:09.58
That's excellent point.
00:14:09.61\00:14:10.95
You know, and so it's a
protection for both parties.
00:14:10.98\00:14:13.25
That's right.
00:14:13.28\00:14:15.85
We determined in
that particular case that
00:14:15.88\00:14:18.02
that young man
should not be involved
00:14:18.05\00:14:21.26
in any kind of youth activities.
00:14:21.29\00:14:23.49
No path finders, no
Sabbath school, you know,
00:14:23.53\00:14:27.16
departments
running at that time.
00:14:27.20\00:14:28.76
If he wanted to be a
part of ministry in the church
00:14:28.80\00:14:31.10
and needed to be in the
area where there was adults.
00:14:31.13\00:14:34.04
That's right. Okay.
00:14:34.07\00:14:35.50
We also felt
that it was important
00:14:35.54\00:14:37.51
that we had someone
as, sort of, his buddy
00:14:37.54\00:14:42.18
that when he came to church,
that person would be with him.
00:14:42.21\00:14:46.41
And when he went to
the bathroom or places,
00:14:46.45\00:14:49.85
they just were his
friend and were with him
00:14:49.88\00:14:53.79
and that way, that
would be accountability.
00:14:53.82\00:14:57.89
Now sadly in
this particular case,
00:14:57.93\00:15:00.10
the young man
didn't wanna agree to that,
00:15:00.13\00:15:02.00
he didn't feel forgiven unless
we opened all doors to him
00:15:02.03\00:15:06.67
and that was sad.
00:15:06.90\00:15:08.24
And that's what you talked
00:15:08.27\00:15:09.60
about an inmate
needs to be prepared
00:15:09.64\00:15:11.51
before he comes to
church as to what his role.
00:15:11.54\00:15:14.48
Well, I have seen
both sides of that coin.
00:15:14.51\00:15:17.28
I have seen that like
you said, they just have all,
00:15:17.31\00:15:19.08
"Fine, if that's the way
the church is gonna treat me,
00:15:19.11\00:15:20.45
I don't want to
be a part of it."
00:15:20.48\00:15:21.82
I know another
brother, also a sex offender
00:15:21.85\00:15:23.79
says you know what?
00:15:23.82\00:15:25.15
"I committed the crime."
00:15:25.19\00:15:26.52
I realize this is
the responsible thing
00:15:26.55\00:15:28.86
for a church to
do and like you said,
00:15:28.89\00:15:30.73
it's also a protection for
them from any false accusations
00:15:30.76\00:15:34.26
and so there's a
level of humility
00:15:34.30\00:15:36.16
is gonna come with
that and for a sex crime,
00:15:36.20\00:15:37.93
there's an extra
level of humility
00:15:37.97\00:15:39.73
but listen, this is
where God wants you to grow
00:15:39.77\00:15:42.54
and following
those restrictions,
00:15:42.57\00:15:45.01
it's common sense, it's correct
00:15:45.04\00:15:48.08
and it's good for
the parents all around,
00:15:48.11\00:15:50.45
it's a good decision
for a church to make.
00:15:50.48\00:15:52.18
Yes, and I know...
00:15:52.21\00:15:53.55
And a church should
by the way make the,
00:15:53.58\00:15:54.92
have this plan
in effect already,
00:15:54.95\00:15:56.38
they should be
already discussing that.
00:15:56.42\00:15:57.75
Absolutely.
00:15:57.79\00:15:59.12
This should be
part of understanding
00:15:59.15\00:16:02.06
the rules and
regulations that are laid out.
00:16:02.09\00:16:04.99
I know a man who, when he
was released for a sex offence,
00:16:05.03\00:16:10.03
he talked with a
pastor and he said,
00:16:10.07\00:16:11.97
"I won't even join
the church till you let me
00:16:12.00\00:16:14.34
share my
testimony from the front,
00:16:14.37\00:16:16.94
'cause I want to know everybody,
00:16:16.97\00:16:18.57
I want everybody to know I'm
not trying to hide anything."
00:16:18.61\00:16:21.58
And he
specifically asked for a partner
00:16:21.61\00:16:24.85
for his own protection.
00:16:24.88\00:16:26.21
He said, "I don't want
to go off to the bathroom
00:16:26.25\00:16:27.98
and then somebody
has accused me wrongly."
00:16:28.02\00:16:30.79
Yeah. But I think
that's very smart.
00:16:30.82\00:16:33.59
I can also just speak very
briefly, my sister's church,
00:16:33.62\00:16:38.26
it was a non
denominational church
00:16:38.29\00:16:40.50
and the pastor had the idea
00:16:40.53\00:16:43.73
that if you
treated someone as such
00:16:43.77\00:16:47.24
you were
denigrating the power of Christ,
00:16:47.27\00:16:52.67
the grace of
Christ to transform them,
00:16:52.71\00:16:55.28
so they will
come to a sex offender
00:16:55.31\00:17:00.12
when he was released
into their congregation,
00:17:00.15\00:17:02.82
he was there for two years
and they actually assigned him,
00:17:02.85\00:17:06.82
he volunteered and they accepted
00:17:06.86\00:17:08.36
and assigned him to
run the bus to pick up kids
00:17:08.39\00:17:14.63
for their Sunday school or
their Vacation Bible school
00:17:14.66\00:17:21.60
and he molested a
six-year-old girl.
00:17:21.64\00:17:25.57
And, you know,
this is something that
00:17:25.61\00:17:27.81
I don't think that,
00:17:27.84\00:17:30.95
I think that it's
dangerous to put someone,
00:17:30.98\00:17:34.12
if you're an
alcoholic, you know,
00:17:34.15\00:17:36.35
it's not the best idea for
you to go to work at a bar.
00:17:36.38\00:17:38.95
That's right. Right. Yeah.
00:17:38.99\00:17:40.32
You know, you're putting
yourself in a place that,
00:17:40.36\00:17:43.86
our natures, you know,
00:17:43.89\00:17:45.89
we've got to
surrender to Christ daily
00:17:45.93\00:17:48.66
and that old sin
nature can rear its ugly head.
00:17:48.70\00:17:51.20
So if you know
where your weakness is,
00:17:51.23\00:17:53.10
then you don't go and
take part on in an area
00:17:53.13\00:17:55.30
where you know
your weakness has been.
00:17:55.34\00:17:56.67
Exactly, exactly.
00:17:56.71\00:17:58.04
You know, that's
just and it's important
00:17:58.07\00:18:00.34
that an inmate,
before they come out,
00:18:00.38\00:18:03.95
understand that
about themselves.
00:18:03.98\00:18:06.08
Yes, the Lord has forgiven.
00:18:06.11\00:18:07.95
He's gonna give you
power to overcome that
00:18:07.98\00:18:10.29
but you don't put
yourself, that's presumption
00:18:10.32\00:18:12.65
to put yourself
back into a space
00:18:12.69\00:18:15.02
where you have been weak
in the past, don't do that,
00:18:15.06\00:18:18.63
instead be like Joseph and Ryan.
00:18:18.66\00:18:20.33
Yes. You see, and so...
00:18:20.36\00:18:25.27
The church is not perfect.
00:18:25.30\00:18:27.27
You have people
that are unconverted
00:18:27.30\00:18:28.64
in the church unfortunately.
00:18:28.67\00:18:30.11
And we can only take
somebody at face value.
00:18:30.14\00:18:33.61
We don't know people's hearts,
00:18:33.64\00:18:34.98
the Bible says, we
judge by appearance,
00:18:35.01\00:18:36.51
we don't know the heart
00:18:36.54\00:18:37.88
and because we
don't know the heart
00:18:37.91\00:18:39.48
we've got to judge by the fruit.
00:18:39.51\00:18:40.85
Right.
00:18:40.88\00:18:42.22
And until you establish a
trust relationship, you know,
00:18:42.25\00:18:45.62
you've got to do the
best, if you're a pastor,
00:18:45.65\00:18:48.32
you have a huge responsibility
to take care of that flock.
00:18:48.36\00:18:52.03
Jesus has some very
strong words to say about those
00:18:52.06\00:18:53.96
who herd the little sheep,
00:18:54.00\00:18:55.73
and so it's
prudent and it's wise
00:18:55.76\00:18:58.63
and I think it's Christian
to put in those guidelines
00:18:58.67\00:19:02.47
and those protections.
00:19:02.50\00:19:03.84
Let's take a different example.
00:19:03.87\00:19:05.21
Let's take someone
00:19:05.24\00:19:06.57
who has either been alcoholic
or heavily involved in drugs.
00:19:06.61\00:19:09.84
Right.
00:19:09.88\00:19:11.21
Okay, and now they're out,
00:19:11.25\00:19:12.58
they have been
clean all this time
00:19:12.61\00:19:14.22
while they have been in prison
00:19:14.25\00:19:16.08
because it isn't available,
00:19:16.12\00:19:18.02
I'm not saying it's totally
unavailable but in other words,
00:19:18.05\00:19:22.02
they've had a
sheltered environment,
00:19:22.06\00:19:23.49
now they're back out and
they've got their freedom
00:19:23.53\00:19:26.19
and how are they
gonna handle themselves
00:19:26.23\00:19:29.23
in this new situation?
00:19:29.26\00:19:30.60
And they come to
your church, seems like,
00:19:30.63\00:19:33.30
if you love that person
00:19:33.34\00:19:35.20
and you want them be
a part of your family,
00:19:35.24\00:19:37.64
you'll say now,
how can we support this
00:19:37.67\00:19:40.34
young man or this young woman
00:19:40.38\00:19:42.71
in this new second
chance of life and freedom
00:19:42.74\00:19:47.05
and help support them
00:19:47.08\00:19:48.98
so that they won't
fall back into it again?
00:19:49.02\00:19:51.32
No.
00:19:51.35\00:19:52.69
So can you start a support group
00:19:52.72\00:19:56.66
that they can come to
00:19:56.69\00:19:58.36
and be a part of
00:19:58.39\00:19:59.73
and they'd have a
wonderful testimony
00:19:59.76\00:20:01.16
and they could actually
lead or help lead out in it
00:20:01.20\00:20:04.53
because they've
gone through this journey
00:20:04.57\00:20:07.27
that maybe some of us haven't,
00:20:07.30\00:20:08.94
you know, maybe
someone needs to say,
00:20:08.97\00:20:13.44
"Hey, I want to take
this person on as, sort of,
00:20:13.48\00:20:18.45
they're gonna be
my special friend,"
00:20:18.48\00:20:20.72
and when they have
an urge or a temptation,
00:20:20.75\00:20:24.89
I want them to
be able to call me,
00:20:24.92\00:20:26.65
it doesn't matter what
time of day, call me...
00:20:26.69\00:20:29.12
Accountability.
00:20:29.16\00:20:30.49
Yeah, accountability partner,
00:20:30.53\00:20:33.29
and they can tell me
what they're going through
00:20:33.33\00:20:35.76
and if it means I have to
get up in the middle of night
00:20:35.80\00:20:38.27
and drive out and we
go spend time together,
00:20:38.30\00:20:40.74
we will do that...
00:20:40.77\00:20:42.10
Amen. So that you
won't fall back in.
00:20:42.14\00:20:44.61
So a church needs to look at
each case individually and say,
00:20:44.64\00:20:48.44
"Okay, how can we best
support this individual
00:20:48.48\00:20:53.01
so that they have a
success in their second chance,
00:20:53.05\00:20:56.28
you know, of life?"
00:20:56.32\00:20:57.85
And, you know,
that's so critical
00:20:57.89\00:20:59.45
because being clean and sober
00:20:59.49\00:21:01.52
no matter how long
you've been clean and sober
00:21:01.56\00:21:04.09
means you have,
as Cheri Peter says,
00:21:04.13\00:21:07.76
"It's one half
of the first step."
00:21:07.80\00:21:10.13
You know, it's kind of
like you've clipped the fruit
00:21:10.17\00:21:12.80
but it doesn't mean
you've gotten to the root issues
00:21:12.83\00:21:14.80
so when someone comes out,
there may still be the pain,
00:21:14.84\00:21:18.64
that they were
trying to numb through drugs
00:21:18.67\00:21:21.48
and they're
gonna face other pains
00:21:21.51\00:21:23.31
if they haven't
learned the coping skills
00:21:23.35\00:21:25.58
they need to be taken through.
00:21:25.61\00:21:28.55
A good program would
be, Cheri Peters has,
00:21:28.58\00:21:31.62
it's Celebrating
Life in Recovery,
00:21:31.65\00:21:33.92
a program that we're
actually running at our church
00:21:33.96\00:21:37.33
and giving it,
00:21:37.36\00:21:40.73
I don't know if, are we
doing in that church at,
00:21:40.76\00:21:43.37
I think it is...
00:21:43.40\00:21:44.73
No, it's at the
Maranatha Center,
00:21:44.77\00:21:46.10
it's town in West Frankfort.
00:21:46.13\00:21:47.47
Okay, okay, and
it's open to the public,
00:21:47.50\00:21:48.84
so something like that
would be an incredible thing.
00:21:48.87\00:21:51.24
What are you gonna say, Wyatt?
00:21:51.27\00:21:52.61
No, I was just agreeing
with you that, you know,
00:21:52.64\00:21:55.61
the more that a
church can do to prepare,
00:21:55.64\00:21:59.91
I mean, definitely,
00:21:59.95\00:22:02.68
there are tons of programs
that the church can do to setup
00:22:02.72\00:22:06.49
to prepare for the
inmates to come out,
00:22:06.52\00:22:08.59
that's why it's so important
that the inmate get in touch
00:22:08.62\00:22:11.09
with those churches
as early as possible,
00:22:11.13\00:22:12.73
so they know their needs,
00:22:12.76\00:22:14.16
so they know what
kind of support group
00:22:14.20\00:22:15.53
they're gonna need,
00:22:15.56\00:22:16.90
that they can
already develop relationships
00:22:16.93\00:22:18.27
and accountability
partners the day they walk out.
00:22:18.30\00:22:20.67
Amen.
00:22:20.70\00:22:23.24
Also the attitude
a church will take
00:22:23.27\00:22:26.57
as they receive these persons.
00:22:26.61\00:22:30.75
They are afraid that
they're not gonna be accepted,
00:22:30.78\00:22:35.05
they are like the
leper coming to Jesus
00:22:35.08\00:22:38.39
and the crowd, you know,
00:22:38.42\00:22:39.75
kicked them away and
tried to keep him from coming
00:22:39.79\00:22:42.42
and Jesus was open
to the leper coming.
00:22:42.46\00:22:46.19
Well, these are
lepers as it were,
00:22:46.23\00:22:49.56
society is lepers
00:22:49.60\00:22:51.93
and so how are you
going to treat this person.
00:22:51.97\00:22:54.70
Are they gonna feel welcome?
00:22:54.74\00:22:56.81
Are they gonna feel accepted?
00:22:56.84\00:22:58.74
What can you do to let them know
00:22:58.77\00:23:01.04
that you love them,
00:23:01.08\00:23:02.41
that you care about
them, that, you know,
00:23:02.44\00:23:05.01
they're important in
the life of the church,
00:23:05.05\00:23:08.38
they're like one of us now.
00:23:08.42\00:23:10.92
The attitude the church
take towards that person
00:23:10.95\00:23:13.62
make all the
difference in the world.
00:23:13.66\00:23:15.46
Absolutely, and let me just,
00:23:15.49\00:23:17.86
it brings me to my favorite
scripture which is first,
00:23:17.89\00:23:21.43
I've always said
I've got so many favorites
00:23:21.46\00:23:22.93
but I do believe this
has become my favorite,
00:23:22.96\00:23:25.03
it's I Thessalonians 3:12, 13,
00:23:25.07\00:23:28.07
where Paul prays and says,
00:23:28.10\00:23:29.60
"May the Lord cause you
00:23:29.64\00:23:32.94
to abound and increase in love,"
00:23:32.97\00:23:36.54
and then he says, "Why?
00:23:36.58\00:23:38.71
So that your hearts may be,
00:23:38.75\00:23:44.45
He may establish your
hearts blameless, in holiness
00:23:44.49\00:23:47.72
before our God and Father
00:23:47.76\00:23:49.09
at the coming of
our Lord Jesus Christ."
00:23:49.12\00:23:50.86
Amen.
00:23:50.89\00:23:52.23
So the more we grow in love,
00:23:52.26\00:23:53.60
the more we grow in holiness
00:23:53.63\00:23:54.96
and this is what
God would have us to do,
00:23:55.00\00:23:57.20
we cannot shun the
one out of fear, you know,
00:23:57.23\00:24:00.80
perfect love drives out fear.
00:24:00.84\00:24:02.64
So we need to reach out,
00:24:02.67\00:24:04.34
it is I think that's
the most important thing
00:24:04.37\00:24:07.21
is how they're received,
00:24:07.24\00:24:09.24
if they're made to feel welcome,
00:24:09.28\00:24:10.95
if they're made to feel
00:24:10.98\00:24:12.35
that they're not being judged
00:24:12.38\00:24:15.12
because, you know,
this is something you said
00:24:15.15\00:24:17.19
in prison ministry, so
it's important that, well,
00:24:17.22\00:24:20.82
it touched your heart is
when people came in and said,
00:24:20.86\00:24:23.46
"But for the grace of God,
I could be in the same spot."
00:24:23.49\00:24:25.96
Yes.
00:24:25.99\00:24:27.33
But, you know, also
whenever they get out,
00:24:27.36\00:24:28.90
I remember my first day
00:24:28.93\00:24:30.27
walking into an
Adventist church,
00:24:30.30\00:24:31.97
I felt everybody in
the church knew exactly
00:24:32.00\00:24:34.54
what I was in and they didn't,
00:24:34.57\00:24:36.27
but I felt they did know,
00:24:36.30\00:24:37.97
same thing I
walk in the Walmart,
00:24:38.01\00:24:39.34
I felt the same thing
like everybody knew my,
00:24:39.37\00:24:41.48
where I just spent 14 years.
00:24:41.51\00:24:43.14
Like you had a big F,
a felon on your forehead.
00:24:43.18\00:24:45.71
Oh, I felt that
it was heavy upon me
00:24:45.75\00:24:47.95
and it wasn't until I just
felt that overwhelming love
00:24:47.98\00:24:50.82
that that church
hugging you if you will,
00:24:50.85\00:24:53.29
that I was actually able
to really get on with life
00:24:53.32\00:24:56.62
and start making it a success.
00:24:56.66\00:24:58.19
But now you may,
go ahead, I'm sorry.
00:24:58.23\00:24:59.56
You had a point?
00:24:59.59\00:25:00.93
Shelley, this
program will air in prisons.
00:25:00.96\00:25:04.23
Yes. Okay.
00:25:04.27\00:25:05.60
And so I would be
speaking to an inmate right now,
00:25:05.63\00:25:10.11
say you do get out
00:25:10.14\00:25:11.87
and you start attending a church
00:25:11.91\00:25:13.61
and you don't feel
welcome at that church.
00:25:13.64\00:25:18.15
Not every church is
prepared to receive you,
00:25:18.18\00:25:21.18
I want you to understand that,
00:25:21.22\00:25:22.85
just because we're all humans
00:25:22.88\00:25:24.62
and some because of their
fear or whatever aren't prepared
00:25:24.65\00:25:27.52
but there will be a
church that will receive you...
00:25:27.56\00:25:30.73
Amen.
00:25:30.76\00:25:32.09
And I've counseled
with more than one inmate
00:25:32.13\00:25:34.76
where they went to one
church and they were loved
00:25:34.80\00:25:37.83
but then they
moved to another state
00:25:37.87\00:25:39.57
and went to another church
00:25:39.63\00:25:40.97
and it was a totally
different experience,
00:25:41.00\00:25:43.20
it was a sad experience.
00:25:43.24\00:25:45.14
But I tried to help
that inmate understand
00:25:45.17\00:25:47.88
that this church is
just not ready for you.
00:25:47.91\00:25:49.94
They're God's people, you know,
00:25:49.98\00:25:51.85
but they're just not ready.
00:25:51.88\00:25:53.21
So let's look
for a different one
00:25:53.25\00:25:56.02
and God will have a
church that is ready for you.
00:25:56.05\00:25:58.85
Amen, and, you
know... So understand that.
00:25:58.89\00:26:00.86
I think that that
could even be said
00:26:00.89\00:26:02.86
even if you weren't an inmate,
00:26:02.89\00:26:04.73
you may have
walked into one church
00:26:04.76\00:26:08.03
and felt a loving atmosphere
00:26:08.06\00:26:10.57
and walked into another church
00:26:10.60\00:26:12.13
and felt like
people weren't connecting,
00:26:12.17\00:26:14.44
so it speaks to the
health and the condition
00:26:14.47\00:26:19.01
and the maturity of
the church body itself.
00:26:19.04\00:26:22.41
So sometimes, that's
probably a church that
00:26:22.44\00:26:25.25
has that kind of reception
for someone who's been a felon,
00:26:25.28\00:26:30.82
the sad truth is they
probably receive others
00:26:30.85\00:26:33.59
like that as well.
00:26:33.62\00:26:34.96
Yeah, Diane and I
moved a lot in our life
00:26:34.99\00:26:37.79
and we've been to a
lot of different churches
00:26:37.83\00:26:39.66
and we've had
the same experience
00:26:39.69\00:26:41.56
and so we decided, okay,
00:26:41.60\00:26:43.73
if this church is
cold toward us, hey,
00:26:43.77\00:26:47.04
we're gonna take it by storm...
00:26:47.07\00:26:48.40
Amen.
00:26:48.44\00:26:49.77
We're gonna love this church
00:26:49.80\00:26:51.14
and we're gonna
love these people
00:26:51.17\00:26:52.51
and pretty soon guess what?
00:26:52.54\00:26:53.88
They found out that it
wasn't bad being friendly
00:26:53.91\00:26:55.61
with the Hamiltons.
00:26:55.64\00:26:58.08
Amen.
00:26:58.11\00:26:59.45
So, Wyatt, did you
have a final comment?
00:26:59.48\00:27:01.32
We've just got a minute left.
00:27:01.35\00:27:02.78
You know, I
think finding a church
00:27:02.82\00:27:05.12
that is loving
is everybody's goal
00:27:05.15\00:27:08.16
but sometimes you have to
be that loving person yourself.
00:27:08.19\00:27:11.39
Like I said, a love of humility
00:27:11.43\00:27:12.99
but as they step into that
and even work with a church,
00:27:13.03\00:27:17.17
you may be more
spiritually mature
00:27:17.20\00:27:18.53
than some people in the church,
00:27:18.57\00:27:19.90
you know, grow
where the Lord plants you
00:27:19.93\00:27:22.24
and God has a prison ministry
for anybody in some perspect.
00:27:22.27\00:27:26.41
And, Brian, a closing thought.
00:27:26.44\00:27:28.21
Well, I hope
that any church family
00:27:28.24\00:27:32.61
that has an opportunity
to minister to inmate,
00:27:32.65\00:27:35.98
this is one of the
most wonderful experiences
00:27:36.02\00:27:37.82
that you could have.
00:27:37.85\00:27:39.19
Amen.
00:27:39.22\00:27:40.56
And really grow out to church.
00:27:40.59\00:27:41.92
And we have seen that
at our own home church
00:27:41.96\00:27:43.73
and it's been quite a joy.
00:27:43.76\00:27:45.36
Thank you, Brian,
for joining us today.
00:27:45.39\00:27:47.03
We want you
gentlemen to come back
00:27:47.06\00:27:48.46
and give us another...
00:27:48.50\00:27:49.86
To expand on this or expound
on this a little bit more.
00:27:52.87\00:27:56.14
Thank you,
Wyatt, for being here.
00:27:56.17\00:27:57.87
For those of you at home,
00:27:57.91\00:27:59.61
I know we've
been giving you a lot.
00:27:59.64\00:28:01.38
Tune on and that's good.
00:28:01.41\00:28:03.55
I mean, 'cause that's
where growth comes in.
00:28:03.58\00:28:05.35
For those of you
who are watching us
00:28:05.38\00:28:07.72
from the prison systems,
00:28:07.75\00:28:10.29
we just want you to
know we do look upon you
00:28:10.32\00:28:12.95
as our brothers
and sisters in Christ.
00:28:12.99\00:28:14.66
We do pray for
you on a daily basis
00:28:14.69\00:28:17.26
and we know God has
a plan for your life.
00:28:17.29\00:28:20.20