The Apostle Paul
wrote in Ephesians 3:7
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that God had given to him,
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and he called himself
the least of all the saints.
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He said a grace was given to him
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that he could
preach among others
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the unsearchable
riches of Christ Jesus.
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We want to show you
how you too can do that,
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please join us today
on Issues and Answers.
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Hello, and thank
you again for joining us
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on Issues and Answers.
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We are just so glad to
have this time to sit down
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and spend together with you
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and today we're
gonna be talking about,
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how we as God's
people, can reach out to touch,
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we who are the least
can reach out to touch
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the least of the
least if you will
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and share the unsearchable
riches of God's grace
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and His plan for us
and joining us again today,
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he was here last
week, is our special guest,
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his name is Wyatt Allen.
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And, Wyatt, you
are an evangelist
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for Amazing Facts.
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You are the director, a founder
of 'In Time Hope Ministries.'
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You are an author of
an incredible book called,
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"The Least of the
Least, From Crime to Christ."
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Let me see...
Wyatt, first welcome.
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Thanks. Thank
you for being here.
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Let me see if I can
recap your story very briefly
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'cause we talked about...
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Shared a lot of
your testimony last time.
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At the age of
15, you are having...
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Had a life of
violence modeled to you.
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You became a violent
child, involved in drugs.
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You were in a drug rehab,
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attacked one of
the counselors there,
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they then put you in,
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I mean, they held you
for year till you were 16
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so they could
try you as an adult.
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You were sentenced
to 20 years in prison,
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of which he served 14.
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But during those 14 years,
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he didn't let any
grass grow under his feet.
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First, God got his attention
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and he was actually a Christian,
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became a Christian
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while he was in
county jail for a year,
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he studied and when
he went off to prison,
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God just put this incredible
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protective barrier
around him it seems.
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But you really
did a lot of studying
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not only in the Bible
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but you, you made
the most of your time,
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you invested your time
wisely while you were there.
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When you got out, you
married a beautiful woman,
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you have a little
daughter nearly two
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and another child on the way
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and you are going
from coast to coast
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doing evangelistic series.
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You know, we
know it was God's will
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that you are here today
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because in your
very busy schedule,
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we had this one
little slot we wanted to fill
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and this was the
only time that you even...
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Worked out
perfect. Had available.
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So we wanna talk today
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a little about prison ministries
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and particularly,
what's close to your heart
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and that is working with youth
who are in detention centers.
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Where do people begin
and can we talk about...
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Can you give us some guidelines
because you're looking at it
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from a perspective,
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you know the value
of prison ministry.
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But you have a
different perspective
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'cause you've been there.
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So maybe, you can
give us some guidelines
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as what is effective,
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what you should be
aware of, just roll.
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That's a whole
lot of stuff there
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but, you know, I'm
not some super Christian
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that somehow emerged
from the prison system
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just as, you
know, ready for society
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and everything was just great
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because I'm just some great guy.
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You know, prison ministries
has played a vital role
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and from the time I
first got incarcerated
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until the last day
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and actually after I got
out and so I wanna give credit
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where credit is due and
that as to God's laborers
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who're willing to
work among, what I call,
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the least of the least as
we talked about last week.
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But, you know, there is just,
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I think a dearth
among Christian ministries
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that focuses on
those that are incarcerated
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whether it is
juveniles or adults
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and so that's...
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A lot of my burden is that.
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Now there are many
I'm sure, many viewers
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that really are,
that is their passion,
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that is what they
and they're just trying
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to let the spirit of enthusiasm
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just catch with their
church but it's just hard.
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One brother who's
involved in prison ministries
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for probably most of his life,
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he shared with
me that every time
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it comes to helping out
somebody who is in prison,
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he's the one
that's beaten the drum,
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he's the one that's really doing
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the utmost to get it to happen
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because everybody
else just drags their feet.
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It's just not a
very popular ministry
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and I think
frankly the reason is,
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is because when you try hard,
there are some that get out
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and they go
back to their crimes,
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they go back to
drugs, dysfunctional lives
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and it can get
very discouraging.
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But I now wanna say
something and I know my husband
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wouldn't mind me saying this
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'cause he's
actually said it before.
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We did some prison
ministry in Indiana
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and he said that, you
know, there wasn't anything
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that was even on his radar,
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he wasn't all that
excited about doing it
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until he tasted and saw,
I mean, once he got there
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and we were at a
maximum security prison for men
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and, you know,
his heart went out
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to these men and they could...
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They knew the sincerity,
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they knew he was
an authentic person
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and you could see some
men that looked very hardened,
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very, almost some of
them looked a little scary
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but, and forgive me
for saying it that way
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but that's just my
perspective that...
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I've been there,
they can look very scary.
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So...
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But these men were melting
because they saw before them
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a father's heart, maybe,
a father or a grand father
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that they never had and
so we found that these men,
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these women, were very much...
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They're just like us
and most of them in there,
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no matter how tough
they act are scared to be
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where they are
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and it was
something that we found that,
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we went there to be a
blessing and we came back
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with ten times the
blessing that we received,
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it was incredible.
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Well, that's
testimony right there,
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that people who don't think
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that prison
ministry is for them,
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that they just taste and see
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and you might
find that that is a,
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now I will not say
blankly that prison ministry
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is for everybody, there are...
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But I will say
there is a ministry
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that anybody could
really do for those inside.
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So going in and visiting inmates
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or having services for them
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may not be the
aspect of prison ministries
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that you can be involved with
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but, you know, if
you're scared of the big guys,
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you know, bubbles
in prison or whatever,
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you know, the
juvenile detention centers
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I think are even less
than prison ministries
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aren't really being focused on.
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It is sometimes harder to
get into a juvenile center
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because of privacy
issues or other concerns
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but even with
through literature work,
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sending materials
in, writing letters,
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you know, there's
a lot of young people
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that are very wavered
that need that fatherly
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and sometimes motherly...
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Love and they just don't,
they haven't experienced that,
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they haven't seen it and for me,
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when I got locked
up, I could honestly say,
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I had never met a
Christian that I knew,
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I mean, that I could say,
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that was what a
Christian look like.
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Looking back, I can't say that.
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You knew some
people who went to church
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but you didn't know
anybody that really had
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a personal
relationship with the Lord.
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When I went to a Bible
study at this one church,
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on a Wednesday night,
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you know, I didn't
really like it too much
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but it was just an evening.
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Well, a year
later, I'm smoking drugs
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with these same people
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that are
continually going to church.
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I didn't think Christians
were a lot different than me
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and so to find somebody
that had the love of Christ,
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who reflected
Jesus, I haven't seen.
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But I'm not saying
that they're not out there,
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I just think we have
responsibilities at church
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to put ourselves as much
as we can in front of people
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so that they can
see the love of Jesus.
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Okay, so let's say
that there is someone
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who maybe,
they're sitting at home,
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they may be my
age and thinking that,
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"Well, ministry, you know,
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my best years for
ministry has passed."
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But they may be able to
write a personal letter.
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What kinds of things...
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How would you guide
somebody even if writing...
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What would you
present in these letters?
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Where would you draw the line?
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Give us a little
guidelines on that.
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Well, there is so much abuse
out there of the system that,
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you know, there's people
that are just con artists inside
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and I would say
that's the minority
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but you just
having a wisdom about it,
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you can avoid so many problems
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but the pen pal
ministry is huge.
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I can say in my experience
while I was locked up,
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if you can find a right
person to write to and...
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You can really
minister to somebody's life.
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I'm still in touch
today with people that,
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they wrote to me in
some dark moments of my past,
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that encouraged
me and gave me hope
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and, you know, and so I just,
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I really look
back and appreciate,
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I still have those letters
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and it's not like they had to go
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and share every
personal thing of their life
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and expose themselves the things
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that may make them vulnerable,
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you can share
the love of Christ,
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you know, think
about the letters
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of the apostle Paul,
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you know, like Ephesians,
Philippians, Colossians,
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all these things were
written while he was in prison,
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you know, you can write letters.
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We have prison ministry
in the reverse, isn't it?
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Yeah, it is.
00:10:16.81\00:10:18.28
But I'm just saying, you know,
you can write letters without,
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I mean, I'm talking about
the inmates writing to people,
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you can write letters
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and you receive
a blessing as well.
00:10:24.72\00:10:26.05
Yes.
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And I just...I know
there's a lot of people inside
00:10:27.46\00:10:31.69
that for a lack of
an encouraging word
00:10:31.73\00:10:34.13
from somebody who
has an another inmate,
00:10:34.16\00:10:36.93
they're despondent...
00:10:36.97\00:10:39.93
But what are
some of the guidelines
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for what you
should or should not,
00:10:41.94\00:10:43.61
I mean, you don't wanna
be preachy or judgmental
00:10:43.64\00:10:46.14
but where do you draw line
00:10:46.17\00:10:48.94
as for as sharing
personal details and things.
00:10:48.98\00:10:52.01
Again, I think
it just, it takes,
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I pray over every
letter, ask out for wisdom
00:10:53.42\00:10:56.89
and I wouldn't
share personal stuff.
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Now, you know, a
year or two goes by
00:10:58.59\00:11:00.36
and, you know, whatever
of writing back and forth,
00:11:00.39\00:11:02.72
you might fill a
comfort level there,
00:11:02.76\00:11:05.96
you know, always
if you have questions,
00:11:05.99\00:11:07.76
have somebody who's, you know,
00:11:07.80\00:11:09.16
at the church, a
leader at the church,
00:11:09.20\00:11:10.53
maybe, read through some letters
00:11:10.57\00:11:11.90
and kind of feel if
there's a scam going on here
00:11:11.93\00:11:15.37
but for the most part, if
you connect to somebody...
00:11:15.40\00:11:18.21
And listen, if
you're a Christian,
00:11:18.24\00:11:20.21
there's a level of
conversation that you can hold,
00:11:20.24\00:11:23.21
that if you're not
a Christian it's just,
00:11:23.24\00:11:24.88
it's not that hard to detect.
00:11:24.91\00:11:27.32
And there's people inside
that are genuinely wanting
00:11:27.35\00:11:31.02
to do better for themselves
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and it's gonna
come across so clear.
00:11:32.72\00:11:34.96
Guideline wise,
00:11:34.99\00:11:36.32
yeah, of course,
avoid personal stuff,
00:11:36.36\00:11:38.46
personal
information as much as possible.
00:11:38.49\00:11:40.80
Especially at first,
but you can always share
00:11:40.83\00:11:44.73
the encouraging
words from the Bible.
00:11:44.77\00:11:47.64
Scripture promises,
00:11:47.67\00:11:49.50
encourage them
to ask questions...
00:11:49.54\00:11:52.14
Okay. But here's the thing.
00:11:52.17\00:11:54.11
Here's the
reality, but I may not know
00:11:54.14\00:11:56.34
the specific statistic
but like 95% of inmates
00:11:56.38\00:12:00.12
that are locked up are
gonna get out of prison.
00:12:00.15\00:12:01.52
Others are
lifers but most people
00:12:01.55\00:12:03.18
are going to get out one day
00:12:03.22\00:12:05.29
and they're gonna be
your next door neighbor.
00:12:05.32\00:12:06.92
We want them to be as
much converted as possible,
00:12:06.96\00:12:10.63
if they're going to
be my next door neighbor
00:12:10.66\00:12:12.23
and so, you know,
sharing personal things,
00:12:12.26\00:12:16.83
you know, is sometimes
helpful but not too personal,
00:12:16.87\00:12:19.50
I think, again, I think
there's just a level of wisdom
00:12:19.53\00:12:21.97
that would really help there.
00:12:22.00\00:12:23.41
Okay, so now let's
talk about literature
00:12:23.44\00:12:25.91
because I know that
especially you said that
00:12:25.94\00:12:29.44
when you were in prison
and you got to be a clerk
00:12:29.48\00:12:32.15
for the prison's chaplain
00:12:32.18\00:12:33.98
and for the library
that was very special,
00:12:34.02\00:12:36.58
it surprised me when you told me
00:12:36.62\00:12:38.42
you'd read one of my books
while you were in the prison.
00:12:38.45\00:12:39.99
Yeah, two of them, I believe.
00:12:40.02\00:12:41.36
Actually wonderful, but
that's a precious thing,
00:12:41.39\00:12:44.19
so somebody had to
get those books in there.
00:12:44.23\00:12:47.00
Talk about literature. Right.
00:12:47.03\00:12:49.70
And this is for those who maybe
00:12:49.73\00:12:51.17
aren't
comfortable writing letters
00:12:51.20\00:12:52.53
or actually going into prisons,
00:12:52.57\00:12:53.90
you could send
materials into chapels,
00:12:53.94\00:12:56.87
typically, completely for free
00:12:56.91\00:12:58.67
and they'll actually put
them on chapel library shelf.
00:12:58.71\00:13:00.51
If you have a lots of them,
they'd put them out on a table
00:13:00.54\00:13:02.24
or they can take
them back to their cells.
00:13:02.28\00:13:04.95
You can mail stuff specifically
to inmates themselves.
00:13:04.98\00:13:09.85
Different prisons have
different regulations about it
00:13:09.88\00:13:12.29
but just give
the prisoner a call
00:13:12.32\00:13:13.66
and say, "What's
your regulations?"
00:13:13.69\00:13:15.02
And follow those
00:13:15.06\00:13:16.39
and you can get
the materials inside.
00:13:16.42\00:13:17.89
I will say that
our prison chapel,
00:13:17.93\00:13:19.49
our chaplain was a very open
00:13:19.53\00:13:21.36
to the
Seventh-day Adventist church
00:13:21.40\00:13:22.73
because they saw that
what the Adventist church
00:13:22.76\00:13:24.57
was doing in
prisons was very positive
00:13:24.60\00:13:27.17
and so they were
putting tons of our books
00:13:27.20\00:13:29.80
on the shelves
and that was simply
00:13:29.84\00:13:31.67
because people had the burden
to get those books into prison,
00:13:31.71\00:13:34.64
so they'll send boxes of books
00:13:34.68\00:13:36.75
that will be now
available to inmates.
00:13:36.78\00:13:40.12
So definitely
literature but you know what
00:13:40.15\00:13:42.08
is even I think more
personal than literature
00:13:42.12\00:13:46.65
is Bible Correspondence schools.
00:13:46.69\00:13:48.92
And our church has tons of
them through Amazing Facts,
00:13:48.96\00:13:51.76
it is written,
Voice of Prophecy,
00:13:51.79\00:13:54.20
so many more and
I've done probably
00:13:54.23\00:13:57.40
20 or 30 different courses,
some of them several times.
00:13:57.43\00:14:01.90
My certificate
file is very thick
00:14:01.94\00:14:03.81
with all the ones
I've graduated from
00:14:03.84\00:14:05.94
and, you know,
00:14:05.97\00:14:07.84
but doing it on
a personal level,
00:14:07.88\00:14:10.11
sending them in and
getting the answers,
00:14:10.15\00:14:11.48
grading them yourselves
00:14:11.51\00:14:12.85
and sending them
in, what a way...
00:14:12.88\00:14:14.22
You can answer
those letters personally,
00:14:14.25\00:14:15.62
answer Bible questions,
a very powerful ministry.
00:14:15.65\00:14:18.92
That's very, very good.
00:14:18.95\00:14:20.96
And you could be in Nevada
00:14:20.99\00:14:22.36
answering letters
for a guy in Michigan,
00:14:22.39\00:14:24.03
you know, it's
not, you don't have
00:14:24.06\00:14:25.56
to be there at that prison
00:14:25.59\00:14:26.93
to do a Bible
school with somebody
00:14:26.96\00:14:30.23
but there's a lots of
prison ministries out there.
00:14:30.27\00:14:32.10
Some of them send
Bibles into prisons that,
00:14:32.13\00:14:35.74
you know, they just,
as they get donations,
00:14:35.77\00:14:37.77
they send more
Bibles in to inmates
00:14:37.81\00:14:39.14
who graduate from Bible
schools or just who need Bibles.
00:14:39.17\00:14:42.08
That's one thing that 3ABN does.
00:14:42.11\00:14:43.85
It's part of our
prison ministries
00:14:43.88\00:14:45.48
that we give the
Andrew Study Bible
00:14:45.51\00:14:47.58
to the prisoners who
we're corresponding with.
00:14:47.62\00:14:50.89
So there's, you
can become a pen pal,
00:14:50.92\00:14:56.39
you can do literature support,
what about Christian music?
00:14:56.42\00:15:01.13
Do they allow
Christian CDs in or not?
00:15:01.16\00:15:06.03
Yeah, most
prisons I think allow CD.
00:15:06.07\00:15:07.80
You can buy CD
players off the commissary
00:15:07.84\00:15:09.44
or the canteen accounts
00:15:09.47\00:15:10.97
and but in the prison I am from,
00:15:11.01\00:15:14.74
that's what I am
familiar with, in Missouri,
00:15:14.78\00:15:16.21
you actually had to
send like either a donation
00:15:16.24\00:15:19.61
and sort of, have
like a buying process
00:15:19.65\00:15:22.65
and they got to prove to vendors
00:15:22.68\00:15:24.02
and so somehow it's
more difficult to get CDs in
00:15:24.05\00:15:26.65
but, you know, the chapels
usually have a stock of CDs
00:15:26.69\00:15:30.63
and so they can
again go to the chapel
00:15:30.66\00:15:32.23
and check these things out.
00:15:32.26\00:15:35.03
But there's and
not just music CDs
00:15:35.06\00:15:37.33
but also preaching CDs,
I listened to an entire...
00:15:37.37\00:15:40.07
That's how I got introduced
with Pastor David Asher,
00:15:40.10\00:15:42.27
I watched his
entire discovery series
00:15:42.30\00:15:44.41
while I was through,
00:15:44.44\00:15:47.08
somebody sent in a whole DVD set
00:15:47.11\00:15:49.84
and so I watched
the whole series.
00:15:49.88\00:15:51.21
Praise the
lord, praise the lord.
00:15:51.25\00:15:52.65
Now the thing you
can do, of course,
00:15:52.68\00:15:54.32
is support 3ABN
00:15:54.35\00:15:55.72
because we're in so
many prison systems.
00:15:55.75\00:15:58.95
Actually, we just...
00:15:58.99\00:16:00.96
I don't know if you
saw the Adventist review
00:16:00.99\00:16:02.96
wrote an article but we are on
00:16:02.99\00:16:04.93
and available
like Guantanamo Bay.
00:16:04.96\00:16:07.10
I saw that... I saw
that picture. I did.
00:16:07.13\00:16:08.93
Yeah, that was really
exciting to think about that.
00:16:08.96\00:16:11.80
Now if you have an opportunity
00:16:11.83\00:16:18.24
to participate in
prison ministries,
00:16:18.27\00:16:22.11
say, to actually go and visit,
00:16:22.14\00:16:24.05
give us some
guidelines of what you think
00:16:24.08\00:16:29.52
makes a good
prison ministry program.
00:16:29.55\00:16:32.62
Well, there's a
couple of levels even of that
00:16:32.65\00:16:34.42
because you have the
personal prison ministry.
00:16:34.46\00:16:36.42
We wanted to get a
church service started
00:16:36.46\00:16:38.06
for the Adventist
church when we were locked up,
00:16:38.09\00:16:40.96
there's several of
us that were involved
00:16:41.00\00:16:42.33
and but, well, it started
out with actually one brother,
00:16:42.36\00:16:45.80
John Stone, he
was able to come in
00:16:45.83\00:16:47.67
to hold a visit with three of us
00:16:47.70\00:16:50.57
in the visiting room, so
it wasn't even in the chapel
00:16:50.61\00:16:53.04
or anything of the prison,
he got a permission to...
00:16:53.07\00:16:55.74
And there's a approval process,
you actually have to go through
00:16:55.78\00:16:58.28
an application process to
become a spiritual advisor
00:16:58.31\00:17:01.95
and so we had Bible study,
00:17:01.98\00:17:03.35
a communion right
there in the visiting room
00:17:03.39\00:17:07.46
and it was very loud
00:17:07.49\00:17:08.86
but we had Bible
study right there
00:17:08.89\00:17:10.53
and very encouraging
but because the interest
00:17:10.56\00:17:12.96
was growing among
those on the yard,
00:17:12.99\00:17:15.16
that's why inmates are vital
00:17:15.20\00:17:17.90
to doing prison
ministry because you have to...
00:17:17.93\00:17:20.17
They are the ones that
have to go out and witness
00:17:20.20\00:17:22.17
and say, "Hey, come
out through our services."
00:17:22.20\00:17:25.27
We were actually finally able
to hold services in the prison
00:17:25.31\00:17:28.28
and we had several
volunteers start to come in,
00:17:28.31\00:17:31.48
so there's the
process of the prisoner,
00:17:31.51\00:17:33.82
the volunteers have to
go through with the prison
00:17:33.85\00:17:36.62
but even above that,
there's a qualification.
00:17:36.65\00:17:38.65
You have to have a sense
00:17:38.69\00:17:41.19
that you're not
a better than them.
00:17:41.22\00:17:42.76
And I'll tell you what,
almost every prison ministry
00:17:42.79\00:17:45.89
maybe says, a prison
minister, man or woman
00:17:45.93\00:17:48.23
that I have met has a
sense of, you know what?
00:17:48.26\00:17:51.20
You know, but for the
grace of God, there goes I.
00:17:51.23\00:17:53.13
I deserve to be
here in as much as you,
00:17:53.17\00:17:54.50
I just didn't get caught.
00:17:54.54\00:17:55.87
I've heard that dozens
of times and it's so true,
00:17:55.90\00:17:57.34
when you have that
attitude, it's like, okay,
00:17:57.37\00:17:59.27
now I can talk to you,
you're not better than me,
00:17:59.31\00:18:01.28
you're not coming
down to preach down to me.
00:18:01.31\00:18:03.31
So that attitude is
huge, I think for somebody
00:18:03.35\00:18:06.92
who's gonna be
working among prisoners.
00:18:06.95\00:18:09.55
But definitely, you
know, whether you have a...
00:18:09.58\00:18:12.65
Just all you can do is sing,
00:18:12.69\00:18:14.09
maybe you don't
know your Bible that well
00:18:14.12\00:18:15.46
but you can sing,
that's a huge ministry.
00:18:15.49\00:18:18.39
You can play the
piano for the service
00:18:18.43\00:18:20.43
or, you know, if
you're not a good preacher,
00:18:20.46\00:18:23.97
sit down and have a Bible study,
00:18:24.00\00:18:25.33
go through for the
Sabbath school lesson
00:18:25.37\00:18:26.84
once a week with these guys.
00:18:26.87\00:18:28.34
Have a prayer ministry,
a one on one counseling,
00:18:28.37\00:18:31.51
there's just
endless, the opportunities
00:18:31.54\00:18:34.31
and things that people can
do to minister to people inside.
00:18:34.34\00:18:36.95
And, you know,
our church has a group
00:18:36.98\00:18:38.91
that goes out
to the local jails,
00:18:38.95\00:18:41.62
now that's... I think
that's more challenging
00:18:41.65\00:18:43.35
than prison ministry
because it's a revolving door,
00:18:43.39\00:18:46.42
they're just, it's a holding,
almost like a holding cell,
00:18:46.45\00:18:49.42
they're in, they're out...
00:18:49.46\00:18:50.79
But you know what though?
00:18:50.83\00:18:52.16
It's the more promising
one because a lot of people
00:18:52.19\00:18:53.53
who're in jail,
that's almost the first step
00:18:53.56\00:18:56.06
before the prison system.
00:18:56.10\00:18:57.73
And you know what that means?
00:18:57.77\00:18:59.10
That means that if
you can get them there
00:18:59.13\00:19:01.47
and help them to see
their need for Christ
00:19:01.50\00:19:03.84
and depend on Him and get a love
00:19:03.87\00:19:05.24
for His Word
then, you know what?
00:19:05.27\00:19:07.68
They're not
gonna end up in prison
00:19:07.71\00:19:09.11
'cause they're gonna have that
00:19:09.14\00:19:10.48
personal
reaffirmation right there.
00:19:10.51\00:19:12.61
So jail ministry is huge.
00:19:12.65\00:19:14.88
That's why my
emphasis on juvenile ministries
00:19:14.92\00:19:17.09
is even more
because if you can get
00:19:17.12\00:19:19.69
a 13, 14, 15-year-old
00:19:19.72\00:19:22.42
to fall in love with Jesus,
00:19:22.46\00:19:23.79
get involved in
ministry then you know what?
00:19:23.83\00:19:26.33
You could just save
a whole career criminal
00:19:26.36\00:19:28.90
from a life of mistakes.
00:19:28.93\00:19:30.90
So what are some of the things
00:19:30.93\00:19:33.03
that you should try
to educate yourself on...
00:19:33.07\00:19:37.54
What topics for example?
00:19:37.57\00:19:39.17
I'm thinking of drug addiction,
if it would be helpful
00:19:39.21\00:19:42.74
if you knew a little something
about the mind of a drug addict
00:19:42.78\00:19:46.61
or the problems
that they're are facing.
00:19:46.65\00:19:48.98
What are some things
if... let's say that you do want
00:19:49.02\00:19:51.89
to start a prison
ministry or a jail ministry,
00:19:51.92\00:19:56.52
what kinds of things, is
it good to go in there armed
00:19:56.56\00:19:59.19
and equipped to talk
about abuse, addiction?
00:19:59.23\00:20:03.47
Well, I mean, I
think people relate
00:20:03.50\00:20:06.13
more to personal experiences
00:20:06.17\00:20:07.50
so you don't have
to have some degree
00:20:07.54\00:20:10.01
or some certification
and something that just say,
00:20:10.04\00:20:11.84
"Hey, I'm there for
you. I wanna hear you.
00:20:11.87\00:20:14.04
I wanna share
with you. I love you."
00:20:14.08\00:20:16.21
I think it doesn't take
any qualifications to do that.
00:20:16.24\00:20:18.28
Okay. Good.
00:20:18.31\00:20:19.65
Now if you have them,
what an extra blessing.
00:20:19.68\00:20:22.32
You can, you know,
you could hold classes
00:20:22.35\00:20:24.45
and not to mean
spiritual classes,
00:20:24.49\00:20:26.69
a friend of mine, his
wife goes into a women's prison
00:20:26.72\00:20:29.66
and she does financial classes.
00:20:29.69\00:20:31.63
And, of course,
she drops, you know,
00:20:31.66\00:20:33.33
the spiritual
message to the whole thing
00:20:33.36\00:20:34.96
but it's not
specifically a spiritual class
00:20:35.00\00:20:39.37
but it is still a ministry
00:20:39.40\00:20:41.44
and it's a door, a way to get in
00:20:41.47\00:20:42.80
and they don't have
an Adventist service
00:20:42.84\00:20:44.17
in that prison but
it's a way to get those
00:20:44.21\00:20:46.11
and she get a lots
of people to sign up
00:20:46.14\00:20:47.48
for the Bible schools
00:20:47.51\00:20:49.68
but she's a
minister in that prison.
00:20:49.71\00:20:51.51
What is the
literacy rate in prison?
00:20:51.55\00:20:55.22
Do you find many
people who are illiterate?
00:20:55.25\00:20:57.39
Very, I mean, if
you don't have a job
00:20:57.42\00:20:59.89
you gotta be going to
school and the schools,
00:20:59.92\00:21:02.52
I mean, are
packed, I mean, you have,
00:21:02.56\00:21:05.19
you know, when I was in,
00:21:05.23\00:21:06.56
you had three different sessions
00:21:06.59\00:21:08.76
of the school
that you had to just,
00:21:08.80\00:21:11.17
it was just so many people that,
00:21:11.20\00:21:13.23
and that's not to say
they're all are illiterate,
00:21:13.27\00:21:14.60
just some of them
don't have their GED.
00:21:14.64\00:21:16.27
Believe me, I have met
some of the most genius people
00:21:16.30\00:21:18.91
in the world locked up.
00:21:18.94\00:21:20.84
And I'm speaking
specifically to reading skills
00:21:20.88\00:21:23.08
'cause I heard, I
read something somewhere
00:21:23.11\00:21:25.35
where it was talking
about how many illiterate people
00:21:25.38\00:21:28.58
there are in the United States.
00:21:28.62\00:21:29.95
It's true. It shocked me.
00:21:29.98\00:21:31.32
You know, we
just don't think that,
00:21:31.35\00:21:33.52
we assume that
people are coming up
00:21:33.56\00:21:35.46
through the school system
00:21:35.49\00:21:36.83
and that they're
learning to read.
00:21:36.86\00:21:38.33
Now some people
maybe, have dyslexia,
00:21:38.36\00:21:41.43
some people may just have been
promoted from grade to grade
00:21:41.46\00:21:47.87
but it's shocking to
me that there are people
00:21:47.90\00:21:50.27
who are maybe 16, 17 or beyond
00:21:50.31\00:21:53.71
and they can read at
maybe a second grade level.
00:21:53.74\00:21:55.71
Yeah. That's true.
00:21:55.74\00:21:57.08
And it is a lot
in prison but I think
00:21:57.11\00:21:59.08
that's not to be discouraged,
I mean, if you can't read,
00:21:59.11\00:22:01.38
you can always listen and...
00:22:01.42\00:22:02.75
No, my point was would it
be good to like maybe do...
00:22:02.78\00:22:05.95
I'm trying to think of classes.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
00:22:05.99\00:22:08.16
Yeah, going in, do a
reading class or something.
00:22:08.19\00:22:10.83
I haven't seen
anything like that in the past,
00:22:10.86\00:22:13.16
I'm sure they're
out there and I know...
00:22:13.19\00:22:19.17
Being creative like
that actually in just having,
00:22:19.20\00:22:21.60
finding a need,
00:22:21.64\00:22:22.97
filling that need is
a way to get in there,
00:22:23.00\00:22:24.77
you're getting
around these folks
00:22:24.81\00:22:26.31
and you're able to help,
00:22:26.34\00:22:27.68
you're able to minister to them.
00:22:27.71\00:22:29.78
I think it doesn't
take anybody special,
00:22:29.81\00:22:33.75
I mean, everybody's special
00:22:33.78\00:22:35.22
but, I mean, you
don't have to have
00:22:35.25\00:22:36.58
some special skill,
you could come in...
00:22:36.62\00:22:37.95
Or a degree.
00:22:37.99\00:22:39.32
You know, and I always encourage
00:22:39.35\00:22:40.89
prison ministry teams.
00:22:40.92\00:22:42.26
I think, you know,
one volunteer is great
00:22:42.29\00:22:44.09
if you're really good at it
00:22:44.13\00:22:45.49
but coming in as a team,
two or three or four people,
00:22:45.53\00:22:49.53
one maybe,
possibly be the teacher,
00:22:49.56\00:22:50.90
the other people
are just sometimes there
00:22:50.93\00:22:52.27
to sit there,
smile and just show
00:22:52.30\00:22:54.50
that they love these
people, that says so much.
00:22:54.54\00:22:58.57
But, yeah, you can
start all kinds of classes
00:22:58.61\00:23:01.64
in the jails, in the prisons.
00:23:01.68\00:23:04.55
There's just no limit really,
00:23:04.58\00:23:06.58
but you have to be
willing to do it and that's...
00:23:06.61\00:23:08.38
I think people are
intimidated by the idea,
00:23:08.42\00:23:10.39
but they shouldn't be,
00:23:10.42\00:23:11.75
it's because the
ministry's like that
00:23:11.79\00:23:13.72
and I can tell lots
of a personal experiences
00:23:13.76\00:23:15.46
that I am here
today where I'm at.
00:23:15.49\00:23:18.59
People invested
their time in me,
00:23:18.63\00:23:20.30
they came from the outside,
they loved me for who I was
00:23:20.33\00:23:23.26
and who I could
be and so I know that
00:23:23.30\00:23:26.70
there's people out there
that could be exactly the same.
00:23:26.74\00:23:29.10
And God honored.
00:23:29.14\00:23:30.54
Obviously, He honored
00:23:30.57\00:23:31.91
their investment of time in you.
00:23:31.94\00:23:34.28
You know what I like to say?
00:23:34.31\00:23:35.81
I say, you know, most criminals
00:23:35.84\00:23:38.68
can trace their first murderous
act to that of killing time
00:23:38.71\00:23:41.58
and I believe
that if you can take...
00:23:41.62\00:23:45.52
Oh, repeat that
because that went by too fast
00:23:45.55\00:23:47.52
for somebody at home's
going, "What did he just say?"
00:23:47.56\00:23:50.43
Something like,
you know, criminals
00:23:50.46\00:23:52.63
can trace their
first murderous act
00:23:52.66\00:23:54.76
to that of killing time.
00:23:54.80\00:23:57.07
Basically, wasting the good time
00:23:57.10\00:23:58.63
that God has given us.
00:23:58.67\00:24:00.14
Time is such a gift and
if you look at the time,
00:24:00.17\00:24:02.67
you'll incarcerate
it as a gift to be used
00:24:02.70\00:24:05.61
to be better
trained for the ministry,
00:24:05.64\00:24:07.48
to be better trained to
be useful in God's service,
00:24:07.51\00:24:10.75
then there's no limit to
what God can do with you.
00:24:10.78\00:24:13.42
But if you take that
time and you waste it,
00:24:13.45\00:24:16.25
you know, it's...
00:24:16.28\00:24:17.89
You're gonna get out
either a worst person
00:24:17.92\00:24:20.49
or just the same as you
did when you got locked up.
00:24:20.52\00:24:22.62
Take that time and prove it
00:24:22.66\00:24:23.99
and now what prison
ministry's can come in
00:24:24.03\00:24:25.46
is giving the inmates
something to do in that time,
00:24:25.49\00:24:29.70
that's the Bible
school, that's the classes,
00:24:29.73\00:24:31.53
that's the pen
pals, that's the...
00:24:31.57\00:24:35.17
And I have one friend,
00:24:35.20\00:24:36.54
he runs a ministry
called, Conviction Ministries.
00:24:36.57\00:24:38.24
He wants to actually
develop a curriculum like AFCO
00:24:38.27\00:24:41.61
for those inside.
00:24:41.64\00:24:42.98
Praise the Lord.
00:24:43.01\00:24:44.35
Where he actually
trains up workers,
00:24:44.38\00:24:46.21
so that when they get out,
they'll not just try and look
00:24:46.25\00:24:48.42
for a job to get
back in the field,
00:24:48.45\00:24:49.78
they're ready to go in ministry.
00:24:49.82\00:24:51.15
Yeah.
00:24:51.19\00:24:52.52
And I tell you that
speaks hope and promise
00:24:52.55\00:24:54.16
and I believe there's
people inside just like me,
00:24:54.19\00:24:56.79
just like him,
just like many others
00:24:56.83\00:24:58.16
that are willing to do
00:24:58.19\00:25:00.83
what it takes to
serve God in any capacity.
00:25:00.86\00:25:03.57
You know, it's interesting.
00:25:03.60\00:25:04.93
We just came full circle,
00:25:04.97\00:25:06.30
we're talking about how
to minister to prisoners
00:25:06.33\00:25:09.50
and now we're
talking about prisoners
00:25:09.54\00:25:11.87
being the
missionaries within the system.
00:25:11.91\00:25:15.78
We actually have a
friend whose child,
00:25:15.81\00:25:20.35
through a number of
circumstances committed
00:25:20.38\00:25:22.65
a heinous act, an act of murder
00:25:22.68\00:25:25.25
and this is a
strong Christian couple
00:25:25.29\00:25:27.32
and they were quite taken aback.
00:25:27.36\00:25:29.56
You can always tell if
someone's faith is real
00:25:29.59\00:25:34.10
when they're in crisis
and we saw this couple,
00:25:34.13\00:25:38.00
they didn't try to cover it up,
00:25:38.03\00:25:39.63
they admitted it
freely, they mourned
00:25:39.67\00:25:42.67
but they had faith
and it's interesting
00:25:42.70\00:25:44.97
because the way they look at it,
00:25:45.01\00:25:46.47
he's in for life, no
possibility of parole
00:25:46.51\00:25:50.38
but the way they look at
it and how they handle it
00:25:50.41\00:25:53.52
and cope with it is
that they see their son
00:25:53.55\00:25:57.65
as a missionary
because once he came...
00:25:57.69\00:26:00.72
Once he was in
there, he really didn't,
00:26:00.76\00:26:03.49
after he was convicted, he
gave his heart to the Lord.
00:26:03.53\00:26:07.96
And now they've been
ministering to him in prison
00:26:08.00\00:26:11.17
and now he's
ministering to so many others,
00:26:11.20\00:26:13.67
so that's how they deal
with this as he's a missionary.
00:26:13.70\00:26:17.87
You know, there are so
many that are really jaded,
00:26:17.91\00:26:20.41
they believe that, you know,
this is all jail house religion
00:26:20.44\00:26:23.35
and there are, there's much
jail house religion going on
00:26:23.38\00:26:26.38
where people
they have a conversion
00:26:26.41\00:26:28.08
and hope of
getting some kind of reward
00:26:28.12\00:26:31.02
or maybe not being
picked on by other inmates
00:26:31.05\00:26:33.32
or whatever the reason is
00:26:33.36\00:26:34.69
but there are
genuine conversions of people
00:26:34.72\00:26:36.36
who were incarcerated
and we cannot just say,
00:26:36.39\00:26:39.46
"Well, they're in prison.
00:26:39.49\00:26:41.10
They became
converted for whatever reason."
00:26:41.13\00:26:43.30
Believe them, give them
hope, give them encouragement
00:26:43.33\00:26:46.80
and I hope people
never give up on those.
00:26:46.84\00:26:49.40
People with life sentences,
they need the most hope.
00:26:49.44\00:26:52.34
Amen.
00:26:52.37\00:26:54.24
And, you know,
they can be set free.
00:26:54.28\00:26:56.61
We've made a number of lifers...
00:26:56.64\00:26:59.55
Just in a short
time and there's...
00:26:59.58\00:27:01.72
Even though I'm behind bars,
00:27:01.75\00:27:03.39
you know, whom Christ
has set free is free indeed,
00:27:03.42\00:27:06.59
so they have been set free
and sometimes they're more free
00:27:06.62\00:27:09.42
than people on the outside.
00:27:09.46\00:27:11.36
That's right. Right.
00:27:11.39\00:27:12.73
So it's all a matter of
relationship with the Lord.
00:27:12.76\00:27:17.17
Our time is just almost gone.
00:27:17.20\00:27:20.24
I want to mention
your book one more time.
00:27:20.27\00:27:24.54
Wyatt didn't know I was even,
I had to tell him to go out
00:27:24.57\00:27:27.28
to his car and bring in a
book because he didn't know
00:27:27.31\00:27:29.54
we were gonna
talk about this book.
00:27:29.58\00:27:30.98
I read his book,
00:27:31.01\00:27:32.35
I think this is a
wonderful read for all of us.
00:27:32.38\00:27:34.98
It's a good
study, it's a good way,
00:27:35.02\00:27:37.72
it's great evangelistic
tool because it introduces
00:27:37.75\00:27:40.49
all of our
doctrines but in a story form
00:27:40.52\00:27:44.63
as you were discovering these,
00:27:44.66\00:27:46.09
how God summon at
these in his heart.
00:27:46.13\00:27:48.56
It's called "The
Least of the Least"
00:27:48.60\00:27:50.77
and it's by
Remnant Publications,
00:27:50.80\00:27:53.44
so I'm sure you can go to...
00:27:53.47\00:27:55.70
Is this on Amazon as well?
00:27:55.74\00:27:57.07
It's on Amazon,
Remnant Publications
00:27:57.11\00:27:58.54
is a good place
to go and get it.
00:27:58.57\00:27:59.91
Yes, wonderful.
00:27:59.94\00:28:01.28
Well, we're so grateful that,
00:28:01.31\00:28:02.64
Wyatt, you have
joined us again today
00:28:02.68\00:28:04.38
and we want you to
come back next week.
00:28:04.41\00:28:06.21
I just want to end with this.
00:28:06.25\00:28:07.98
Paul says he's talking
about becoming a minister
00:28:08.02\00:28:11.85
by the gift of
grace that God gave him.
00:28:11.89\00:28:14.06
He said," To
me, who am the least
00:28:14.09\00:28:17.66
of the least of all the
saints, this grace was given
00:28:17.69\00:28:20.90
that I should
preach among prisoners
00:28:20.93\00:28:23.77
the unsearchable
riches of Christ."
00:28:23.80\00:28:25.97
Let that be your testimony too.
00:28:26.00\00:28:28.30