So many people in
this world have suffered
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some type of pain or rejection,
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and when they do
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they look for way
to numb their pain
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and that usually leads to
an addiction of some kind.
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Please join us today
on Issues and Answers,
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as we discuss this
very troublesome problem
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but yet give the answer,
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the victory that can
be found in Christ Jesus.
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Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and once again
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we welcome you to
Issues and Answers.
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We're so glad that
you're taking this time to,
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to just sit down
and join us today
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and I know you're
going to be glad as well.
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We're welcoming back
author and pastor Paul Coneff,
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he is the director of
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Straight 2 the Heart Ministries.
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And he has written an
incredible book called
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The Hidden Half of the Gospel.
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So, Paul, we
want to welcome you.
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I left out one of
your credentials is that
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you're also a licensed
family practice counselor.
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And let's just kind
of give me once again,
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this is your
third program with us
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but tell us what The
Hidden Half of the Gospel is?
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We say the book title is
The Hidden Half of the Gospel,
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how his suffering will
heal yours in Jesus suffering.
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So we want to bring to light
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how Jesus said
over and over again
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that he came to suffer
and die and rise again,
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not just die and rise again.
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The death and
resurrection is critical to us,
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we need forgiveness, we
need to know we're saved,
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we need to know we
have a gift of eternal life
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and he included
suffering over and over again,
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and said he was fulfilling
Old Testament prophecy.
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Yes.
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So what we want
to do is bring out
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how he suffered in
very intentional ways,
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being alone,
abandoned, betrayed,
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abused everyway possible,
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tempted to numb
his pain on the cross,
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when he's lost water and
blood, his nerves are on fire,
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his flesh had been
ripped from his back,
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and then he cries
out in the darkness,
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"Why have you forsaken me."
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The temptation
to numb his pain was
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because they
offered him a sour wine.
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Yeah.
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But when he
recognized it was wine,
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he actually overcame that
temptation to numb his pain.
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Yeah, 'cause he
could have checked out
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even for a few seconds.
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But then a plan of
salvation would have been lost,
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so as soon as he realized
it was a wine vinegar mix,
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here it was made to
numb his pain a little bit,
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so one nice thing
they did, he said no,
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he trusted in his
father and said no,
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so now we have a Jesus
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who has suffered all
these negative experiences,
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so he can be tempted
with our same temptations,
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our same negative
thoughts, so now he can,
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the Jesus that Hebrews 2
says suffered being tempted,
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we can see they
were real temptations.
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And because he was tempted
to numb his pain on the cross,
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he knows what it's like to
be tempted to numb his pain,
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he knows what it's
like to trust in his Father,
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and now we can
receive his victory,
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it's not like
we're saying, okay,
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Jesus did it so you do it,
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we're saying Jesus
did it because you can.
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He said, I do
nothing on my own strength,
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and he said you can
do nothing apart for me.
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So now we want to say
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here is where he
was tempted like you,
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so you can bring your
story, your negative thoughts,
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feelings, behaviors to him
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and then receive his victory.
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Amen. Amen.
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So whose story you're
going to talk about today?
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I want to talk about Keith,
he is a good friend of mine,
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he had grown up
Japanese so he's still Japanese.
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I was going to ask. Yeah.
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He's Japanese
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and he grew up
after World War II
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in Southern Cal,
and he's looking around
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and there is not a
lot of Japanese people,
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and after World War II
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it wasn't real pop here,
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so he grew up
wishing he could be Anglo.
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He sees himself
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and he says I want to
be somebody different.
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Were his parents in
the internment camps or...?
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I'm not sure,
no, I don't think so.
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But he knew the
feeling the sensor
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of how that
associated with World War II
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and then he didn't
have a good relationship
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with his dad, his
dad favors older brother,
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he felt rejected by his dad.
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So he has got this rejection
issue both from his race
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and from his family.
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So he's really smart
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so he started
trading doing homework
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in high school and college,
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elementary
school and high school,
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and in return he
would get drugs from them,
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he do everybody's homework.
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Oh, mercy.
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And then he's in job,
he's working in a career,
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he's got a responsible
job but he gets into cocaine
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because cocaine numbed
that pain of rejection.
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It didn't solve
it, but it numbed it.
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Wasn't he smart enough that
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he thought I think he
was on a medical track
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to become the doctor.
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Yes, he wanted to
be a doctor. Okay.
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And he could have been a doctor
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ended up managing
big construction projects
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but he was
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and so he ended
up being in cocaine
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so much that he got paranoid,
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this wasn't using
drugs once in a while.
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He got to, he
run out of the house
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thinking people are after him,
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he finally got
checked into rehab,
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it was very hard
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because he didn't want to admit
his life was out of control.
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He ends up in the same hospital
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where he'd interned.
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Yeah.
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But now he's not
there as a pre-med student
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hoping to be a doctor,
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now he's there as a
patient, it was very hard.
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And so then he
ended up in recovery
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and he got some
healing and then somebody said,
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hey, let's go to
our friend's wedding
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and so he thought well,
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I'll bring some
cocaine, I can handle it.
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Well of course he couldn't
and that spiraled him out again
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and then he ended
up getting married,
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he ended becoming a Christian
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and then we ended
up connecting later on
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and he realized that
yes, the behavior was gone,
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yes, he gotten some recovery
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but those negative
thoughts about rejection
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there was still some
residue, they were still there.
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So he really
resonated with the idea of Jesus
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hanging on the cross
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'cause our big thing,
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our main theme is
what happened in your life,
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where can Jesus identify,
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where can he connect
his story to your story,
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where did he go
through a similar experience.
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And now Keith has a
Jesus hanging on the cross
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crying out, my God, my God,
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why have you forsaken me.
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This is a Jesus that
has walked in Keith's shoes.
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And before he cries out
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this is a Jesus who is
tempted to numb his pain,
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it wasn't with
cocaine, it was with alcohol,
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but it's not the
particular alcohol,
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food, drug, sex,
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it's the fact that
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he was tempted to
numb his pain to checkout
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and he said no,
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I'm going to trust in my Father.
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I want to just
hit your pause button
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for just a second
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because there are
people who are watching
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who may not be
familiar with the story,
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we can't assume that they
know the story on the cross,
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so how was Christ
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when he was
hanging on the cross,
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where did the temptation come
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for him to be
tempted by alcohol?
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Well, to give it
more complete story
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he's in the garden,
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he's alone and abandoned
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and betrayed when he's praying.
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Then he goes through
all these multiple trials
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where they beat him,
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they tear the
flesh off his back,
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so by the time he's
nailed to the cross,
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his nerves are on
fire, he's lost water,
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he's lost blood
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and then the Roman soldiers
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did one nice thing
for those they crucified.
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Everything else was cruel,
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but the one nice thing is
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they would offer
him wine vinegar mix,
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a sour drink, an alcohol drink
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to numb the pain.
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So they put it on a sponge
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and they actually
put it up on his lips,
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and when he realized
what it was, he said no.
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And just think how parched
he was after all night long,
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not having anything to
drink, all that blood loss,
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he would have
been so dehydrated,
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so just to have that
cool liquid in his mouth
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would have been wonderful.
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To have any liquid...
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Yeah.
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And then it's
an alcoholic liquid
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that could lead him checkout,
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but if he checked out
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he wouldn't be
present with his pain,
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he wouldn't be
trusting in his Father
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and then he wouldn't be
able to give us his victory.
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So he was tempted to
I mean, the humanity,
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the human side of him
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wanted or would
have welcome that,
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but he was able to
surrender that to the Lord,
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to his Father
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and gain victory
over that temptations
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so that he remained without sin.
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Yes.
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And now he can
forgive Keith for any anger
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and hurting the
way he's you know,
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try to numb his pain
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from his hurt from his Father,
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so Keith can get
forgiveness but even better,
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he can get freedom.
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You know, 1 John 1:9 says,
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if we confess our sins,
he's faithful to forgive us
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and cleanse us from
all unrighteousness.
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Yes.
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A lot of Christians are
getting a lot of forgiveness,
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but they're not
getting a lot of freedom.
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We want him to
experience forgiveness
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for the mistakes he's made,
the way he's derailed his life,
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hurt himself or others.
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We also want him to get freedom
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not only from the
cocaine but from that core,
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that root issue,
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that belief system
behind his behavior
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of I'm rejected
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because if he has an identity
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that he's
rejected by his own father,
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is that going to
bring positive feelings
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and behaviors or negative?
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Absolutely, it's
going to bring negative.
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And then he's
going to try and go,
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I don't want to be
present with these feelings
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and I wouldn't want to be
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present with
those feelings either.
00:09:29.53\00:09:30.87
I mean, one of
the negative messages
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I had was I'm rejected,
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so then we're going
to go find something
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and both of us growing up
in different areas found drugs.
00:09:37.27\00:09:40.21
There is lots of
different addictions,
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but now he's trying to medicate
00:09:41.88\00:09:43.51
so he goes from
feeling bad about
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being rejected to doing cocaine.
00:09:45.35\00:09:47.68
Now while he's doing
cocaine he feels good
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but then he feels bad later,
00:09:50.69\00:09:52.15
so what does he
do to feel better?
00:09:52.19\00:09:53.79
He goes back to doing cocaine,
00:09:53.82\00:09:55.99
and then he feels bad,
00:09:56.02\00:09:57.53
so what is he going
to do to feel better?
00:09:57.56\00:10:00.20
More cocaine and
now he is addicted,
00:10:00.23\00:10:02.50
he's got this thought pattern,
I feel bad, I go to drugs.
00:10:02.53\00:10:06.97
And so we've got the
cycle of sin and forgiveness.
00:10:07.00\00:10:09.80
And so if we're
going to help him,
00:10:09.84\00:10:11.17
we have to help him
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identify that core issue
00:10:12.81\00:10:14.44
which happens to be in
his case the rejection.
00:10:14.48\00:10:16.91
And, you know, it
might not be cocaine,
00:10:16.95\00:10:18.51
lots of people have
never done illegal drugs.
00:10:18.55\00:10:20.62
You know, actually
when I was reading a book,
00:10:20.65\00:10:23.25
I realize that, I always said,
00:10:23.28\00:10:26.55
I don't know how
I escaped my past
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without having
some kind of addiction,
00:10:29.39\00:10:32.99
without having something
that I used to medicate myself,
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because I consider
myself a well balanced person,
00:10:37.20\00:10:41.30
I've been very
independent in it,
00:10:41.34\00:10:43.20
that was difficult for me.
00:10:43.24\00:10:44.57
When you grow up in dysfunction,
00:10:44.61\00:10:46.14
you learn to be
independent for self survival,
00:10:46.17\00:10:48.71
so it's
difficult for me to learn
00:10:48.74\00:10:50.61
to really yield to the Lord,
00:10:50.65\00:10:52.71
but as I read your book
I realized that how my...
00:10:52.75\00:10:58.05
How I self medicated if
you will was through overwork,
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I mean I became "a workaholic"
00:11:03.06\00:11:05.93
and that was, you know,
00:11:05.96\00:11:08.56
we don't often
think of that's an escape,
00:11:08.60\00:11:11.17
a route of escape
but it actually is.
00:11:11.20\00:11:14.67
And it's socially acceptable.
00:11:14.70\00:11:16.14
Yes.
00:11:16.17\00:11:17.51
I went from being
alcohol to workaholic now
00:11:17.54\00:11:19.64
so I can identify
so I switch fruits,
00:11:19.67\00:11:21.54
that's not freedom.
00:11:21.58\00:11:22.91
Yeah.
00:11:22.94\00:11:24.28
And so what we want to do is
00:11:24.31\00:11:25.65
deal with those belief
systems behind the behavior,
00:11:25.68\00:11:28.28
the roots 'cause
the fruit is often
00:11:28.32\00:11:31.65
negative thoughts and feelings,
00:11:31.69\00:11:33.32
negative feelings and behaviors.
00:11:33.36\00:11:35.39
And the fruit
being the behavior,
00:11:35.42\00:11:37.16
the root being
whatever the cause
00:11:37.19\00:11:39.23
the lie of Satan is the root
00:11:39.26\00:11:42.36
when he's trying to
rob you of your identity,
00:11:42.40\00:11:45.23
when he's telling
you in first person
00:11:45.27\00:11:47.84
where you're saying,
00:11:47.87\00:11:49.20
you know, I'm not worthy,
00:11:49.24\00:11:50.91
I'm rejected,
I've been abandoned,
00:11:50.94\00:11:53.91
I'm going to be abandoned,
00:11:53.94\00:11:55.31
all these things
these are the root
00:11:55.34\00:11:57.41
but then the fruit
is whatever behavior
00:11:57.45\00:12:00.62
those negative
lies create, right?
00:12:00.65\00:12:03.99
Yes.
00:12:04.02\00:12:05.35
And so you have the root system,
00:12:05.39\00:12:06.82
imagine a negative
thought, negative belief, lie,
00:12:06.86\00:12:10.99
it's going to
create negative feelings
00:12:11.03\00:12:12.36
and negative behaviors
00:12:12.39\00:12:13.73
'cause those
behaviors are going to be
00:12:13.76\00:12:15.16
how do I get
away from the feeling,
00:12:15.20\00:12:16.97
and I would define addiction
and bad habits as very simple.
00:12:17.00\00:12:20.80
I feel bad,
00:12:20.84\00:12:22.90
I go to cocaine,
food, drugs, sex,
00:12:22.94\00:12:24.74
or whatever to feel good,
00:12:24.77\00:12:26.64
I end up feeling worse or numb.
00:12:26.68\00:12:28.74
And some people say, I
would never do cocaine, no,
00:12:28.78\00:12:31.18
but what they do
five bowls of ice cream.
00:12:31.21\00:12:34.18
And which tastes better,
the first bowl or the fifth?
00:12:34.22\00:12:37.32
The first
because ice cream is cold
00:12:37.35\00:12:40.46
and it numbs your tongue,
00:12:40.49\00:12:41.96
so if I remember
what the first bowl
00:12:41.99\00:12:43.83
tasted like guess what?
00:12:43.86\00:12:45.43
I'm chasing the
original feel good,
00:12:45.46\00:12:48.06
but it's harder
to get it because now
00:12:48.10\00:12:50.87
the taste buds are numb.
00:12:50.90\00:12:52.73
Well, it's no
different than cocaine.
00:12:52.77\00:12:54.94
Ice creams are a lot cheaper
00:12:54.97\00:12:56.44
but really the
first line of cocaine
00:12:56.47\00:12:58.97
is going to be the best
because it starts numbing you,
00:12:59.01\00:13:02.08
it gets you high
but it numbs you.
00:13:02.11\00:13:04.01
So whatever we
do, it doesn't matter
00:13:04.05\00:13:05.61
whether it's ice
cream or cocaine,
00:13:05.65\00:13:07.62
socially
acceptable or not, I feel bad,
00:13:07.65\00:13:11.59
I go to something to feel good,
00:13:11.62\00:13:13.86
I end up feeling worse or numb,
00:13:13.89\00:13:15.22
that tends to be
the addictive cycle.
00:13:15.26\00:13:17.16
And some people say,
I don't have addictions,
00:13:17.19\00:13:18.53
I just have habits.
00:13:18.56\00:13:20.26
Okay, either way when
Keith was in addiction
00:13:20.30\00:13:23.70
and he was destroying
his life stealing his life,
00:13:23.73\00:13:26.23
but here he has a Jesus tempted
00:13:26.27\00:13:28.57
to believe he's
rejected by his father
00:13:28.60\00:13:30.51
so he can identify with Keith,
00:13:30.54\00:13:32.27
tempted to numb
his pain like Keith,
00:13:32.31\00:13:35.08
and then as Keith
gets healing and freedom,
00:13:35.11\00:13:36.78
he start sharing his
story with other people.
00:13:36.81\00:13:39.78
And they start telling
him things about their life
00:13:39.81\00:13:41.35
that he didn't know,
00:13:41.38\00:13:42.72
these are friends
he'd known for years.
00:13:42.75\00:13:44.09
He used to help race
cars and work on cars
00:13:44.12\00:13:46.19
and he's talking
with some of his friends
00:13:46.22\00:13:47.62
and he's sharing how now
Jesus can identify with him.
00:13:47.66\00:13:50.63
He has seen the power
of self from the side,
00:13:50.66\00:13:52.26
he's not, nobody
told him about witness.
00:13:52.29\00:13:54.90
He's just sharing what
Jesus had done for him.
00:13:54.93\00:13:56.46
He's excited.
00:13:56.50\00:13:57.83
And some of
them were Christians,
00:13:57.87\00:13:59.20
some of them were not.
00:13:59.23\00:14:00.57
He's just sharing his story
which is what a testimony is.
00:14:00.60\00:14:03.34
And one girl starts
talking about, you know,
00:14:03.37\00:14:05.04
being gang raped, okay.
00:14:05.07\00:14:07.04
Well, Jesus was strip naked,
00:14:07.08\00:14:08.54
physically violated by
group of men in power over him.
00:14:08.58\00:14:11.75
There is a bull's eye.
00:14:11.78\00:14:13.31
Somebody else is drinking
because of pain in their past.
00:14:13.35\00:14:16.55
He start sharing
what Jesus did for him
00:14:16.58\00:14:19.65
and she stops drinking.
00:14:19.69\00:14:21.02
Praise the Lord.
00:14:21.06\00:14:22.69
Somebody else starts talking,
00:14:22.72\00:14:24.06
another guy starts
talking about stuff in his past
00:14:24.09\00:14:25.96
that he never
told anybody about,
00:14:25.99\00:14:27.50
so Keith starts talking
about his story being rejected,
00:14:27.53\00:14:31.87
being Japanese and
feeling uncomfortable with that,
00:14:31.90\00:14:34.70
and all of a sudden
00:14:34.74\00:14:36.07
because he's sharing
his story in a positive way,
00:14:36.10\00:14:38.17
not a negative way,
00:14:38.21\00:14:39.54
he's not glorifying sin
but he's sharing his story.
00:14:39.57\00:14:42.61
And you know what people do?
00:14:42.64\00:14:43.98
They start
sharing their story back.
00:14:44.01\00:14:45.68
Yes.
00:14:45.71\00:14:47.05
And he's not just
sharing his story,
00:14:47.08\00:14:48.52
he's sharing his story
00:14:48.55\00:14:50.09
and how it
connects with Jesus story,
00:14:50.12\00:14:52.02
so they begin Christian
or non-Christian to see,
00:14:52.05\00:14:54.92
wait a minute,
the savior isn't up
00:14:54.96\00:14:58.03
in a cloud playing a harp.
00:14:58.06\00:15:00.60
This is a rubber
meets the road Jesus
00:15:00.63\00:15:03.63
that's walked in my shoes,
00:15:03.67\00:15:05.73
so he can meet me in my pain
00:15:05.77\00:15:08.17
and brokenness and heal me.
00:15:08.20\00:15:09.54
I had, that's my aha-huh moment.
00:15:09.57\00:15:11.94
It is, it's you
know, we can say yes,
00:15:11.97\00:15:14.91
Jesus identifies with us
00:15:14.94\00:15:17.45
and that brings
some kind of healing
00:15:17.48\00:15:19.88
but what it is,
00:15:19.91\00:15:21.75
is that we recognize that
00:15:21.78\00:15:24.22
he isn't just up there
looking down being judgmental,
00:15:24.25\00:15:28.06
he's been here,
00:15:28.09\00:15:29.42
he understands completely
and he's rooting for us,
00:15:29.46\00:15:33.63
he's trying to
give us the victory.
00:15:33.66\00:15:35.96
Thanks be to God who gives
us the victory in Christ Jesus.
00:15:36.00\00:15:39.73
And that's
00:15:39.77\00:15:42.77
it's making me think of
Romans 5:17 just a second,
00:15:42.80\00:15:46.78
I think that's it,
00:15:46.81\00:15:48.14
Romans 5:17 says,
00:15:48.18\00:15:54.22
"If by the one man's offense
death reigned through the one,
00:15:54.25\00:15:57.32
much more those who
receive abundance of grace
00:15:57.35\00:16:00.66
and the gift of
righteousness will reign in life
00:16:00.69\00:16:04.03
through the One, Christ Jesus."
00:16:04.06\00:16:06.06
So it's as we recognize
00:16:06.09\00:16:09.90
that he fully understands us,
00:16:09.93\00:16:13.10
he's walked in that, he
can give us the victory.
00:16:13.13\00:16:16.00
He gives us this abundant grace
00:16:16.04\00:16:18.24
that's more than
just forgiveness,
00:16:18.27\00:16:19.84
it's healing and now
he's going to help us
00:16:19.87\00:16:22.91
reign in life
00:16:22.94\00:16:24.31
because the
thief comes to steal,
00:16:24.35\00:16:26.55
kill and destroy
that's the devil,
00:16:26.58\00:16:28.55
but he came to give us
life and life abundant like.
00:16:28.58\00:16:32.12
That's right.
00:16:32.15\00:16:33.49
And the power of this is that
00:16:33.52\00:16:36.09
it's both theologically
and biblically sound
00:16:36.12\00:16:39.89
and yet it's
lived out in his life,
00:16:39.93\00:16:41.53
if this is Christ in
you the hope of glory.
00:16:41.56\00:16:43.16
Amen.
00:16:43.20\00:16:44.53
He is receiving the
acceptance of Christ,
00:16:44.57\00:16:46.20
he's not just identifying
with Christ on the cross
00:16:46.23\00:16:48.17
and that's powerful that
we've been talking about.
00:16:48.20\00:16:50.47
Christ is
tempted to numb his pain,
00:16:50.51\00:16:52.17
Christ is
tempted to believe that
00:16:52.21\00:16:54.34
his Father has rejected him
00:16:54.38\00:16:55.71
in his deepest, darkest moment.
00:16:55.74\00:16:57.41
But now God didn't stop there.
00:16:57.45\00:17:00.08
The rest of the story that
he raised Jesus from the dead
00:17:00.12\00:17:02.75
and that resurrection life,
00:17:02.78\00:17:04.25
that abundant life now
can be poured into Keith.
00:17:04.29\00:17:06.65
Keith sees himself in a new way
and starts sharing his story.
00:17:06.69\00:17:09.49
You know, we think
of the apostle Paul
00:17:09.52\00:17:11.19
as this type A energizer bunny,
00:17:11.23\00:17:13.29
he now come down he gets backup,
00:17:13.33\00:17:14.73
no, nothing stops him, and
there was that part of him.
00:17:14.76\00:17:17.93
But he says in 1
Thessalonians 2:8,
00:17:17.97\00:17:19.73
we loved you so much
00:17:19.77\00:17:22.00
that we share with
you not only the gospel,
00:17:22.04\00:17:25.77
this good new story
00:17:25.81\00:17:27.14
but our lies as well
00:17:27.18\00:17:28.51
because you've
been so dear with,
00:17:28.54\00:17:29.88
so Paul couldn't
share the gospel story
00:17:29.91\00:17:32.15
without sharing his story
00:17:32.18\00:17:33.55
and having other
people share theirs,
00:17:33.58\00:17:35.18
and that's what Keith
found as he's going on vacation
00:17:35.22\00:17:37.92
and connecting with old
friends that he shares his story
00:17:37.95\00:17:41.16
and how Jesus
story came into his
00:17:41.19\00:17:43.59
and they start
sharing parts of their story
00:17:43.63\00:17:45.46
they haven't told other people.
00:17:45.49\00:17:48.83
It's not something
somebody told him to do,
00:17:48.86\00:17:51.43
it's part of his life.
00:17:51.47\00:17:52.80
That's the response.
00:17:52.83\00:17:54.17
And it's the overflow,
00:17:54.20\00:17:55.54
you know,
Colossians 2, Paul says,
00:17:55.57\00:17:56.91
as you've received
Christ continue in him
00:17:56.94\00:17:58.94
being rooted and
grounded in Christ
00:17:58.97\00:18:01.18
overflowing with thanks,
00:18:01.21\00:18:03.28
so we want people to work
off the overflow principle
00:18:03.31\00:18:05.78
where it's
natural and joyous to say
00:18:05.81\00:18:08.25
I want to tell you
something that's happened to me
00:18:08.28\00:18:10.32
that's made a difference.
00:18:10.35\00:18:11.69
Here is who I was,
00:18:11.72\00:18:13.05
here is where
Christ just brought me
00:18:13.09\00:18:14.42
because of his suffering,
his death and his resurrection,
00:18:14.46\00:18:17.33
where I'm getting forgiveness
and I'm getting freedom
00:18:17.36\00:18:21.80
and growing in grace.
00:18:21.83\00:18:23.16
Amen. Amen.
00:18:23.20\00:18:25.13
And, you know, I imagine that
00:18:25.17\00:18:27.67
when it comes down to,
00:18:27.70\00:18:29.07
we often think, you know,
00:18:29.10\00:18:31.37
there is someone in my office
who's always talking about,
00:18:31.41\00:18:34.38
she does the personalities
00:18:34.41\00:18:36.01
the choleric, sanguine,
00:18:36.04\00:18:37.71
melancholy and phlegmatic,
00:18:37.75\00:18:39.85
you know, she always say
00:18:39.88\00:18:41.75
oh, you're a
sanguine choleric, you know,
00:18:41.78\00:18:44.55
you take charge but
you're just so sanguine.
00:18:44.59\00:18:47.46
And you think of sanguine people
00:18:47.49\00:18:50.26
as being more talkative,
00:18:50.29\00:18:51.89
more...
00:18:51.93\00:18:53.70
Somebody said they're
great at going out sharing,
00:18:53.73\00:18:56.43
I wouldn't see you as
a sanguine personality,
00:18:56.46\00:18:59.60
I don't put a whole lot
of stock in the personalities
00:18:59.63\00:19:02.40
but what I'm
trying to point out is
00:19:02.44\00:19:04.87
that it doesn't sound,
00:19:04.91\00:19:06.64
when I read Keith's story,
00:19:06.68\00:19:08.01
it didn't sound like he would be
00:19:08.04\00:19:09.51
what you would consider
the sanguine personality,
00:19:09.54\00:19:13.15
but when you're
working from the overflow
00:19:13.18\00:19:16.58
it doesn't matter if
you're phlegmatic, choleric
00:19:16.62\00:19:19.25
whatever you are,
00:19:19.29\00:19:20.62
and I believe that
when Christ enters,
00:19:20.66\00:19:22.46
he kind of balances
out those things you know,
00:19:22.49\00:19:26.03
but when you're working
from the overflow principle,
00:19:26.06\00:19:29.43
you just
naturally going to share.
00:19:29.46\00:19:31.53
One thing I
appreciate about your ministry
00:19:31.57\00:19:33.84
Straight 2 the Heart is that
00:19:33.87\00:19:37.44
you put a lot of
emphasis on discipleship.
00:19:37.47\00:19:41.94
I'd like for you
to please address
00:19:41.98\00:19:43.85
that we have about I
think eight minutes left.
00:19:43.88\00:19:46.88
Could you kind of
talk about the importance,
00:19:46.92\00:19:50.19
why it's importance to
us individually to share,
00:19:50.22\00:19:53.15
'cause Keith could have
kept all of this to himself
00:19:53.19\00:19:56.59
and just bask in
the glow of his healing
00:19:56.62\00:20:00.66
but he would have
really lost something
00:20:00.70\00:20:02.76
if he hadn't shared.
00:20:02.80\00:20:04.13
Why is it important
to teach discipleship,
00:20:04.17\00:20:07.70
to have community, small group,
00:20:07.74\00:20:10.64
so we're getting together people
00:20:10.67\00:20:12.64
who are sharing or
going out two by two
00:20:12.67\00:20:15.18
as the biblical principle?
00:20:15.21\00:20:16.54
Well, Jesus sent
the 12 out two by two,
00:20:16.58\00:20:18.88
he sent the 70 out two by two.
00:20:18.91\00:20:21.45
Moses had Joshua,
00:20:21.48\00:20:24.99
Elijah had
Elisha, Paul had Timothy,
00:20:25.02\00:20:27.62
Barnabas, Silas.
00:20:27.66\00:20:29.99
What I find is that
00:20:30.03\00:20:32.29
like Keith and I
actually became prayer partners.
00:20:32.33\00:20:35.16
When we're praying
and he knows my story
00:20:35.20\00:20:36.80
what I'm going through
00:20:36.83\00:20:38.17
and I know what
he's going through
00:20:38.20\00:20:39.53
when we're praying
there is a community there
00:20:39.57\00:20:40.90
and the Father
sent a Holy Ghost,
00:20:40.94\00:20:43.20
the Holy Spirit or Trinity.
00:20:43.24\00:20:44.91
Right.
00:20:44.94\00:20:46.27
And so I believe
that we all need support,
00:20:46.31\00:20:48.34
men should be praying
with men, women with women,
00:20:48.38\00:20:49.98
husband and wife
praying together.
00:20:50.01\00:20:51.35
I'm so glad you said that
00:20:51.38\00:20:52.71
because you have to be careful
00:20:52.75\00:20:54.98
and I learned this the hard way.
00:20:55.02\00:20:56.79
I was doing a prayer ministry
long distance with a man,
00:20:56.82\00:21:00.42
who was calling repeatedly
00:21:00.46\00:21:03.16
who then transferred his
feelings of affection toward me
00:21:03.19\00:21:08.53
which it was shocking,
00:21:08.56\00:21:10.00
'cause he was very
young and I'm very old,
00:21:10.03\00:21:12.17
but I mean, it was shocking
00:21:12.20\00:21:13.94
so this is
something that you know,
00:21:13.97\00:21:16.20
we wouldn't counsel one on one
00:21:16.24\00:21:18.34
man with a women
00:21:18.37\00:21:19.71
or at least we were taught that,
00:21:19.74\00:21:21.08
we'd always...
00:21:21.11\00:21:22.44
If I'm going to
counsel to somebody
00:21:22.48\00:21:23.81
my husband's going to be
there if it's the opposite sex.
00:21:23.85\00:21:25.58
Yeah.
00:21:25.61\00:21:26.95
But even in a prayer ministry
it becomes very intimate,
00:21:26.98\00:21:30.59
you have an intimate
connection in prayer ministry.
00:21:30.62\00:21:31.95
What happens as
you start sharing
00:21:31.99\00:21:33.32
and sharing is intimacy.
00:21:33.36\00:21:34.69
Yes.
00:21:34.72\00:21:36.06
So bonds can develop
00:21:36.09\00:21:37.43
and so we have to make sure that
00:21:37.46\00:21:38.79
everything is
open up and you know,
00:21:38.83\00:21:40.16
Paul said in Ephesians,
00:21:40.20\00:21:41.53
avoid even the
appearance of evil.
00:21:41.56\00:21:42.90
That's good.
00:21:42.93\00:21:44.27
So we want to avoid
even the appearance of evil,
00:21:44.30\00:21:46.23
but if men are praying
with men and it's tough for men,
00:21:46.27\00:21:49.60
we like to be lone
rangers, it's natural,
00:21:49.64\00:21:52.61
it's not spiritual,
00:21:52.64\00:21:53.98
so we need to pray and say God
00:21:54.01\00:21:55.34
what's keeping me
from that community,
00:21:55.38\00:21:57.25
we need support.
00:21:57.28\00:21:58.65
We need to have other
men to know our story.
00:21:58.68\00:22:00.82
I need to know
00:22:00.85\00:22:02.18
what's going on in Keith's life,
00:22:02.22\00:22:03.55
he needs to know
what's going on in my life
00:22:03.59\00:22:04.92
so when we're praying,
00:22:04.95\00:22:06.29
even if I'm
thousands of miles away,
00:22:06.32\00:22:07.66
if he knows what's going
on and I know he is praying,
00:22:07.69\00:22:09.99
Jesus knew it was so important
00:22:10.03\00:22:12.09
that he sent the
12 out and the 70 out
00:22:12.13\00:22:13.96
and Paul
followed the same model.
00:22:14.00\00:22:15.56
So having that
sense of community
00:22:15.60\00:22:17.50
and women praying with women,
00:22:17.53\00:22:19.03
women
intuitively understand women,
00:22:19.07\00:22:21.14
men intuitively understand men,
00:22:21.17\00:22:23.54
so we can build that
community there is more power.
00:22:23.57\00:22:27.31
It's when
disciples came together
00:22:27.34\00:22:29.04
for 10 days and prayed,
00:22:29.08\00:22:30.65
when they came
together as a group
00:22:30.68\00:22:32.51
that's when the
Holy Spirit fell.
00:22:32.55\00:22:34.85
So I believe the
community that two by two,
00:22:34.88\00:22:37.82
two and three and four
men or women praying together,
00:22:37.85\00:22:40.82
supporting each other
is critical to our growth
00:22:40.86\00:22:43.69
if we're going to reveal
the fullness of God's love,
00:22:43.73\00:22:46.66
and grace, and
character to people.
00:22:46.70\00:22:49.16
So now what about small groups
00:22:49.20\00:22:52.90
you've mentioned couple of times
00:22:52.93\00:22:54.67
in your book about
people getting together
00:22:54.70\00:22:57.44
in these groups to have
this kind of prayer ministry
00:22:57.47\00:23:00.78
and then I mean,
00:23:00.81\00:23:02.14
are getting together for study
00:23:02.18\00:23:03.51
or are they studying
00:23:03.55\00:23:04.91
and then
breaking off into prayer.
00:23:04.95\00:23:06.61
Yeah, what we do is we have
00:23:06.65\00:23:08.25
13 week discipleship process...
00:23:08.28\00:23:10.15
Where we go deep in
00:23:10.19\00:23:11.52
one person's area of their life,
00:23:11.55\00:23:12.89
we talk about their losses,
00:23:12.92\00:23:14.36
how they learned
to protect themselves,
00:23:14.39\00:23:15.92
their patterns
of self protection
00:23:15.96\00:23:17.86
which end up being
patterns of self sabotage.
00:23:17.89\00:23:20.43
We look at how to
receive forgiveness
00:23:20.46\00:23:22.46
for what they
didn't or did not about it.
00:23:22.50\00:23:24.53
We talk about
generational pattern,
00:23:24.57\00:23:26.84
'cause we've
all inherited stuff.
00:23:26.87\00:23:28.20
Sure.
00:23:28.24\00:23:29.57
Then we look at how
do we receive Jesus'
00:23:29.60\00:23:30.94
spirit of forgiveness
for those who hurt us,
00:23:30.97\00:23:32.77
and then we look at
00:23:32.81\00:23:34.31
how do we take all
this stuff in our life,
00:23:34.34\00:23:37.05
how it's got
weaving it together,
00:23:37.08\00:23:38.68
working it to good for
the calling he has for us.
00:23:38.71\00:23:41.85
Let say somebody has
been addicted like Keith
00:23:41.88\00:23:44.65
and he gets free, he
can start a recovery group.
00:23:44.69\00:23:46.62
Yeah. So we could take that.
00:23:46.65\00:23:48.59
You know, addiction of cocaine
00:23:48.62\00:23:50.13
isn't on any
spiritual gifts list.
00:23:50.16\00:23:51.93
Abortion isn't any on
spiritual gifts list, right?
00:23:51.96\00:23:55.60
Being beaten or actually beat
00:23:55.63\00:23:57.50
isn't on any
spiritual gifts list.
00:23:57.53\00:23:59.23
Losing a child isn't on
any spiritual gifts list
00:23:59.27\00:24:01.84
but could these stories
connect with Jesus' story
00:24:01.87\00:24:05.41
and bring healing
00:24:05.44\00:24:06.78
and then they
turn out ministering
00:24:06.81\00:24:08.14
to other men and women
00:24:08.18\00:24:09.51
who've gone
through same experiences,
00:24:09.54\00:24:10.91
so they're not on a
spiritual gifts list
00:24:10.95\00:24:12.81
but can God heal them,
00:24:12.85\00:24:14.22
set them free and
move them into ministry
00:24:14.25\00:24:16.92
and so this where we're wanting
00:24:16.95\00:24:18.55
to start them with their losses,
00:24:18.59\00:24:20.22
their patterns
of self protection,
00:24:20.26\00:24:21.86
forgiveness, but
we want to end up
00:24:21.89\00:24:23.56
where they're accepting
their calling in Christ,
00:24:23.59\00:24:25.93
learning how to share
their story and their gifting
00:24:25.96\00:24:28.40
and ending up
committing to two by two
00:24:28.43\00:24:30.60
and looking for
their harvest daily.
00:24:30.63\00:24:32.77
I think that is so wonderful.
00:24:32.80\00:24:34.24
You know, I
can't believe it, Paul,
00:24:34.27\00:24:36.20
but we're down to just the last
few minutes of this program,
00:24:36.24\00:24:38.71
and there is one thing
that I wanted to point out.
00:24:38.74\00:24:40.98
In your book you mentioned that
00:24:41.01\00:24:43.41
there is a prayer actually
00:24:43.45\00:24:45.71
that people are
praying to God and saying,
00:24:45.75\00:24:48.68
Lord, reveal to me the
barrier that I have up,
00:24:48.72\00:24:53.52
put up that is
blocking your blessings.
00:24:53.56\00:24:56.79
And I think this
is something that
00:24:56.83\00:24:59.56
what your ministry is doing
00:24:59.59\00:25:01.46
is getting to
the root, that's all,
00:25:01.50\00:25:04.77
what's it's all about
is getting to the root
00:25:04.80\00:25:06.70
of our negative thoughts
00:25:06.74\00:25:08.07
and I just wanted to
read the scripture to you,
00:25:08.10\00:25:10.31
it is from 2
Corinthians 10:4 and 5,
00:25:10.34\00:25:15.24
and here is what Paul says,
00:25:15.28\00:25:16.78
"The weapons of our
warfare are not carnal
00:25:16.81\00:25:19.41
but they are mighty in God
00:25:19.45\00:25:21.78
for pulling down the
strongholds in his mind,
00:25:21.82\00:25:24.89
casting down arguments
00:25:24.92\00:25:26.62
and every high thing
that it exalts itself
00:25:26.65\00:25:29.39
against the knowledge of God."
00:25:29.42\00:25:31.26
And I would say that
00:25:31.29\00:25:33.23
when the devil is
whispering in your ear,
00:25:33.26\00:25:35.76
when you're a child of God
00:25:35.80\00:25:37.30
and he's whispering in your ear
00:25:37.33\00:25:38.80
that you're rejected
00:25:38.83\00:25:40.17
or that you should be
fearful of abandonment,
00:25:40.20\00:25:43.34
that is something
that is exalting itself
00:25:43.37\00:25:47.08
against the knowledge of God
00:25:47.11\00:25:48.44
'cause God says
he'll never leave you,
00:25:48.48\00:25:50.35
he'll never forsake
you, he'll ever abandon you.
00:25:50.38\00:25:53.08
And then he say that
00:25:53.11\00:25:55.28
these weapons are
casting down the arguments
00:25:55.32\00:25:58.25
every high thing
that exalt itself
00:25:58.29\00:26:00.02
against the knowledge of God
00:26:00.06\00:26:01.49
bringing every
thought into captivity
00:26:01.52\00:26:05.56
to the obedience of Christ.
00:26:05.59\00:26:08.33
This is what it's
all about, is it not?
00:26:08.36\00:26:12.33
It is.
00:26:12.37\00:26:13.70
And when we deal with
addictions here we have,
00:26:13.74\00:26:17.21
we're not going to
use worldly weapons.
00:26:17.24\00:26:18.77
We're not going to try
harder in our own strength.
00:26:18.81\00:26:21.11
We're not going to
take every thought captive
00:26:21.14\00:26:23.18
and how do we do it?
00:26:23.21\00:26:24.55
By breaking, by
using divine power
00:26:24.58\00:26:26.21
which points me to the
cross in Jesus' suffering,
00:26:26.25\00:26:28.62
death and resurrection.
00:26:28.65\00:26:30.29
And then it says we're
going to break those strongholds
00:26:30.32\00:26:32.65
by taking every thought captive,
00:26:32.69\00:26:34.02
so what is the stronghold?
00:26:34.06\00:26:35.39
It's the strong
thought patterns,
00:26:35.42\00:26:37.46
creating the
strong negative feelings
00:26:37.49\00:26:39.83
that lead to the
strong negative behaviors.
00:26:39.86\00:26:43.13
Amen.
00:26:43.16\00:26:45.00
That, when you said that
00:26:45.03\00:26:46.84
you're going to
kept those cords,
00:26:46.87\00:26:49.40
Psalm 129:4 is one of
my favorite scriptures
00:26:49.44\00:26:53.34
to share with people
as a promise of the Lord
00:26:53.38\00:26:56.54
and it says, "The
Lord is righteous,
00:26:56.58\00:26:59.78
He has cut in pieces
the cords of the wicked."
00:26:59.81\00:27:04.19
So God that is his
point, it is his job to do,
00:27:04.22\00:27:09.62
we can't really do it our self.
00:27:09.66\00:27:10.99
I can't fix Shelley Quinn,
you couldn't fix Paul Coneff.
00:27:11.03\00:27:14.70
You can get all
the education you want,
00:27:14.73\00:27:16.77
study all you want
00:27:16.80\00:27:18.13
and it all comes down
to turning it over to God
00:27:18.17\00:27:21.00
and God fixes it, right?
00:27:21.04\00:27:22.80
But he will cut us free
00:27:22.84\00:27:25.07
from all of those negative roots
00:27:25.11\00:27:28.48
that the devil,
all the lies of Satan.
00:27:28.51\00:27:30.78
God will give you your
true identity in Christ.
00:27:30.81\00:27:34.55
Time is up, I can't believe it.
00:27:34.58\00:27:36.22
Paul, thank you so
much for joining us,
00:27:36.25\00:27:39.15
and if anyone
would like to invite you
00:27:39.19\00:27:41.82
to come to their
church and do a training.
00:27:41.86\00:27:44.33
I know you're going
to be at Andrews soon
00:27:44.36\00:27:47.40
giving another training,
00:27:47.43\00:27:48.76
but if you would
like to invite Paul,
00:27:48.80\00:27:50.13
you can go to
Straight 2 the Heart...
00:27:50.17\00:27:53.64
Well straight2theheart.com,
00:27:53.67\00:27:56.04
straight2theheart.com.
00:27:56.07\00:28:00.04
And we also highly
recommend your book
00:28:00.08\00:28:01.98
which you can see it
here all about on his website.
00:28:02.01\00:28:06.41
Thank you so
much for joining us.
00:28:06.45\00:28:08.25
Our prayer is that
00:28:08.28\00:28:10.15
the grace of our Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ,
00:28:10.19\00:28:12.35
the love of the Father
00:28:12.39\00:28:13.72
and the
fellowship of the Holy Spirit
00:28:13.76\00:28:16.29
will be with you
today and always,
00:28:16.32\00:28:19.33
and we look forward
to seeing you once again.
00:28:19.36\00:28:22.23
Bye-bye.
00:28:22.26\00:28:23.60