Let me ask you a question.
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Have you ever confessed a sin
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and know that in your
mind God has forgiven you,
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and yet you find that you're
still swallowed up in sorrow,
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that is Satan's strategy
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and today we
want you to join us,
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so that you will
learn how to overcome
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that strategy on
Issues and Answers,
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that's our discussion today.
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Hello, I'm Shelly Quinn,
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and we are so thankful
that you're joining us today
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on Issues and Answers.
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You're going to
be thankful as well
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because we'll be
discussing something
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that is rather common
to our human condition.
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And that is the fact that
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we can confess
our sins and believe
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we've received
forgiveness from God,
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and yet in our belief systems,
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Satan is trying to tell us
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we are something that
really we no longer are.
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So we don't get the
freedom from the guilt
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and the shame of the past.
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Well, help me introduce
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or welcome that is our
special guest Paul Coneff.
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And Paul is an
author, he is a pastor.
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And, Paul, you are the director
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of Straight 2
the Heart Ministries.
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Tell us little
about your ministry?
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Well, our ministry comes out
of working with broken people
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and helping them get
healing and freedom in Christ.
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And so the two main themes are
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that Christ suffering
is part of his gospel,
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because He said
I came to suffer,
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die and rise again
over and over again.
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So we break that suffering
down into how He was alone,
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abandoned, physically,
verbally, mentally abused,
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experienced
racism, pull politics,
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He's tempted in numbness pain
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and cried out why
have you forsaken me.
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So we talk about
how His suffering
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with a fulfillment of
prophecy to identify with us.
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He went through
negative experiences
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because we do
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and then that's
the root of our healing
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to really identify with Him,
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to realize we're not
alone, He understands.
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The other main thing is that
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Satan's called
the father of lies,
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not the father of sin.
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So we want to ask
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what are those
negative thoughts or lies
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we get about ourselves
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when we go through
these negative experiences
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to keep us stuck in
these patterns in our lives.
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Amen.
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So now, if somebody was to
go to your website and that is,
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that's straight and
then the number two.
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Yes.
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Straight and then a numeral two,
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Straight 2 the
Heart Ministries...
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Straight2theheart.com.
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Straight2theheart.com.
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What would they
find on your website?
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They would find
testimonies of people
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that have got
healing in freedom.
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They would find a
calendar for training events
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and then resources
that they can purchase.
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All right.
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Now, if however they want to
purchase your book and this...
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The Hidden Half of
the Gospel is a book
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that Paul wrote and
essentially it's this.
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The gospel you and I
most frequently think of is
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Christ died for our
sins, He redeemed us,
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halleluiah, by
grace we are saved.
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But the Hidden Half
of the Gospel is what
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Christ kept trying to
share with His disciples
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and they couldn't
quite understand it
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that He came to be
our suffering Messiah.
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He came to experience everything
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that we do in our humanity,
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yet to overcome
it, be without sin,
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He was tempted in every
way but yet was without sin.
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And I can highly
recommend this book,
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the Hidden Half of the Gospel
and that is at hiddenhalf...
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www. You don't
have to have the W's
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but Hidden Half, H-I-D-D-E-N,
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hiddenhalf.org.
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All right, now, let's
get into Sheri's story,
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because Sheri is someone that
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you've ministered
with who has found herself
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as we talked about in
the T's swallowed in sorrow.
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When she first came to me,
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she was living in the community
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and I knew her and
some of her friends,
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and she came in one day and said
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I'm just overwhelmed by shame.
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And I said, okay, well,
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what's causing you shame?
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She said, well, I
know, but I can't tell you.
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It's too overwhelming.
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She felt too bad about it.
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So I had a choice,
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I could try and get to tell me
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what she said she
didn't want to tell me.
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But I felt like I'd rather
connect her to Jesus story
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and so she's struggling to
go where God wants her to go.
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She knows what
the core issue is.
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So I said what would you...
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Would you be willing
to identify with Christ.
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Struggling to surrender His
will to His father in a garden
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to go where God
was calling Him to go.
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Or we can close
and you can leave.
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But if we do that,
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then you carry
the shame with you,
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so I gave her a choice.
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She chose to
identify with Christ
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so we said a prayer,
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thank you Father that You
had Jesus fulfill prophecy.
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Struggling to surrender
his will to your will to go
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where you were
calling him to go.
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So you could take my
struggle to go to place of shame
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and to his death
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and then through
his resurrection power,
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I'm receiving Jesus
spirit to surrender,
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where you are making me willing
to be willing to go there.
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And so then she gave
me part of the story,
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her daughter had a miscarriage.
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But if she had a miscarriage,
should she be having shame,
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or grief and loss?
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Grief and loss.
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So we know there is
something more to the story,
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but she couldn't tell me.
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So I said the same thing,
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we can either end the session
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our time to get
it but that means
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you live with the shame
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or we identify
with Christ again.
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So we pray that prayer again
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and after two or
three prayer times
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the whole story came out.
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When her daughter
had the miscarriage
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it triggered something
that happened four years ago.
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She had an
abortion 40 years ago,
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and was so overwhelmed
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by when her
daughter had a miscarriage
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believing that her miscarriage,
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her abortion had caused
her daughter's miscarriage.
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In other words she knew...
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And at some level she realized
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or could acknowledge
that God had forgiven her sin
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but at another level somehow
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she felt like maybe
God was paying back,
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because she had
had the abortion that
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it was like in his will that
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the daughter
should lose a child.
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Yeah, a lot of times
Christians have a phrase
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that I hear a lot
when I am doing trainings,
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I just need to forgive myself.
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The problem is there is nothing
in Genesis from Revelation
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where anybody ever says that.
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Moses was a murderer, he
didn't say forgave himself.
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David had Uriah murdered,
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he didn't say I forgive myself
for having Uriah murdered,
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they receive
forgiveness from God.
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And so what I find
Sheri is like many Christians
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who confessed
their sinful behavior,
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they're sincerely wrong,
they don't even return to it.
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But they don't realize
that Satan is a father of lies,
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so he doesn't put lies
in me just before I sin,
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but after my sin.
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So as we pray to God to reveal
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what was holding
the shame in place,
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'cause shame is a
feeling, it's a strong feeling,
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it's an overwhelming feeling,
it's a negative feeling.
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But it's a feeling,
it's fruit not root.
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So we wanted to know who God...
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Explain, don't
just pass by that.
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Explain fruit root?
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If I have a negative thought,
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and that's my root system
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where that negative
thought create negative
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feelings and behaviors
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or positive
feelings and behaviors?
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Negative feelings and behaviors.
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So she confessed her
behavior of being lonely,
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ending up in sex
outside of marriage,
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being a scared
teenager and having an abortion.
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We're not justifying it.
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Okay, so the
root is the unbiblical
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negative thought...
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The belief system that
doesn't line up with the Bible.
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That's the root,
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the behavior of is
the fruit of the root.
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That's where we got
the fruit and the root.
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Yes.
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And that's Old Testament
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where it pictures New Testament.
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And so, we're not
ignoring the fruit,
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but she confessed her
behavior of the abortion,
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she was truly sorry.
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It sits there in the
background like on a burner
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carrying low level
of guilt and shame.
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But then her
daughter has a miscarriage
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and that belief system,
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it's my fault, I'm a murderer,
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was never brought to the cross.
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So many times we
confess her behaviors
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but we carry the guilt and shame
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not because we want to
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but because we
have a negative belief
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about ourselves from Satan,
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the father of lies.
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Wow, I'm trying
to catch this so,
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so essentially
you're saying it's not...
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When we say not biblical
to say I'm gonna forgive my...
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I need to forgive myself.
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It's not in the Bible
is what you're saying.
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It's not in the Bible...
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So rather than focusing on
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what you need to
forgive yourself for this,
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you know, accept
God's forgiveness
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and you forgive yourself.
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What you need to do
is be able to surrender
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those negative thoughts to God
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and let Him go through...
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So it's just basically
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we haven't
really confessed in God
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and everything
out, did I say right?
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Yes and it's not
that she is not insincere.
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She sincerely...
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she hasn't any more abortions,
it's not that she sincere...
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And God's forgiven
her. And God's forgiven her.
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It's just that...
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Okay.
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Even in 1 John it says,
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even if our own
heart condemns us,
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God's greater than our hearts.
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But why should I have
her live in condemnation
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when I can have
ever live in freedom.
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So what we want to
do is say, okay God,
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what did she learned
to believe about herself
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because of that abortion
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that's causing
this intent shame.
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And a belief system she
had, everybody is different
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but her belief system is
it's my fault, I'm a murderer.
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And she said to me,
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I know in my head
that God is not like that.
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He wouldn't punish my daughter
for my decision 40 years ago.
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So up here, from the head up,
00:09:57.53\00:09:59.23
straight A in a
theological exam,
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but she said in my heart,
00:10:01.96\00:10:04.60
and I hope our
viewers are getting this,
00:10:04.63\00:10:05.97
in my heart
that's where I believe
00:10:06.00\00:10:08.80
that I'm a
murderer and it's my fault
00:10:08.84\00:10:10.54
that I caused my
daughter's miscarriage.
00:10:10.57\00:10:12.47
That God's making her pay,
00:10:12.51\00:10:14.61
her daughter pay
for what she did.
00:10:14.64\00:10:16.38
So she knows intellectually,
mentally, thou God is like,
00:10:16.41\00:10:20.38
but her heart has
this belief system,
00:10:20.42\00:10:22.32
and so what we're
able to do is say,
00:10:22.35\00:10:23.89
where was Jesus
tempted to believe,
00:10:23.92\00:10:26.05
He wasn't accepted with God.
00:10:26.09\00:10:29.26
So we always
move into Jesus story.
00:10:29.29\00:10:30.99
And Jesus said in the
cross, Father forgive them,
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I either sin for they
know not what they do.
00:10:34.40\00:10:38.27
So Jesus forgiveness
not only covers what she did
00:10:38.30\00:10:41.17
but all the unknown,
00:10:41.20\00:10:42.54
unintended consequences from it.
00:10:42.57\00:10:44.37
Now, does that minimize sin
00:10:44.41\00:10:45.97
or is that maximize God's grace?
00:10:46.01\00:10:47.68
It maximizes God's grace.
00:10:47.71\00:10:49.04
The isn't cheap grace,
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was it easy for her to face
00:10:50.45\00:10:53.48
not only the abortion
but that overwhelming shame
00:10:53.52\00:10:56.45
and that belief
system, I'm a murderer,
00:10:56.48\00:10:58.59
I've caused my
daughter to have a miscarriage.
00:10:58.62\00:11:00.39
Was that easy? No.
00:11:00.42\00:11:01.92
No, it wasn't but by faith...
00:11:01.96\00:11:03.32
He's confessing it obviously
if it took her that long to,
00:11:03.36\00:11:05.93
if she was so overwhelmed
00:11:05.96\00:11:07.30
she couldn't even articulate it.
00:11:07.33\00:11:09.36
She couldn't voice it.
00:11:09.40\00:11:10.73
It wasn't easy. It
wasn't easy at all.
00:11:10.77\00:11:12.50
But I had the privilege of
walking her into Jesus story,
00:11:12.53\00:11:15.20
that Jesus took her
sin to death on the cross.
00:11:15.24\00:11:17.44
She already dealt with that,
00:11:17.47\00:11:18.87
but also the
negative belief systems
00:11:18.91\00:11:20.98
and negative
identity creating the shame.
00:11:21.01\00:11:23.18
So Jesus was a sin
offering, a guilt offering.
00:11:23.21\00:11:26.41
So did He take all of her guilt
00:11:26.45\00:11:27.95
and all of her shame into death
on the cross 2000 years ago?
00:11:27.98\00:11:30.95
Yes.
00:11:30.99\00:11:32.32
So we prayed and brought in
her belief system about herself,
00:11:32.35\00:11:36.02
it's my fault, I'm a murderer
00:11:36.06\00:11:38.33
so we brought the belief system
00:11:38.36\00:11:39.69
into her
behavior with the feeling,
00:11:39.73\00:11:42.60
so we got the belief system,
we got the negative thoughts,
00:11:42.63\00:11:46.13
we got the negative feelings
00:11:46.17\00:11:47.57
connected to that
negative behavior.
00:11:47.60\00:11:49.87
And as we did and we
kept praying that way,
00:11:49.90\00:11:51.47
she was able to
get freedom from that
00:11:51.51\00:11:53.84
and six months later
00:11:53.88\00:11:55.21
she was walking
in her neighborhood,
00:11:55.24\00:11:56.58
she saw one of my church members
00:11:56.61\00:11:57.95
and she said, hey, tell Paul,
00:11:57.98\00:11:59.31
I'm still doing well.
00:11:59.35\00:12:00.68
And before I left that church,
00:12:00.72\00:12:02.05
she came by when I was
leaving to say goodbye,
00:12:02.08\00:12:03.62
and I said,
00:12:03.65\00:12:04.99
you have a beautiful
story of God's grace.
00:12:05.02\00:12:08.36
Ministering to you,
00:12:08.39\00:12:09.86
with a sin you confess
00:12:09.89\00:12:11.23
but the belief
system was still there
00:12:11.26\00:12:12.63
and you didn't
even fully realize it.
00:12:12.66\00:12:15.10
Could I have
permission to share that
00:12:15.13\00:12:16.46
and she gave me
permission to share,
00:12:16.50\00:12:17.83
so wherever I go in
the world I tell her story
00:12:17.87\00:12:19.83
about how God
forgave her of what she did
00:12:19.87\00:12:21.84
and did not know
00:12:21.87\00:12:23.27
and Jesus took into His death
00:12:23.30\00:12:25.34
all the negative thoughts
leading up to the abortion.
00:12:25.37\00:12:27.88
All the loneliness and looking
for love outside a marriage.
00:12:27.91\00:12:31.01
Everything connected to abortion
00:12:31.05\00:12:32.91
and those negative thoughts
of belief system about herself
00:12:32.95\00:12:36.22
because of the
decision she made.
00:12:36.25\00:12:38.42
Now let me ask you a question.
00:12:38.45\00:12:41.99
How we discussed last
time that you had when we...
00:12:42.02\00:12:48.50
With this last week
00:12:48.53\00:12:50.00
that you grew up
with a lot of dysfunction,
00:12:50.03\00:12:53.77
some true negative
beliefs about yourself.
00:12:53.80\00:12:56.81
You acted out the fruit
of your negative beliefs
00:12:56.84\00:12:59.81
you got involved in
quite a few different things...
00:12:59.84\00:13:03.48
Alcohol and
drugs or in self pity.
00:13:03.51\00:13:05.78
So, okay.
00:13:05.81\00:13:08.92
We also discussed
that you have been a pastor
00:13:08.95\00:13:12.25
or you became a pastor
00:13:12.29\00:13:13.62
and you felt like
your past was in the past,
00:13:13.66\00:13:15.99
you didn't want to deal with it.
00:13:16.02\00:13:18.59
Explain again
because I know we didn't...
00:13:18.63\00:13:22.16
We touched on this last time
00:13:22.20\00:13:23.53
but I think
it's important the T,
00:13:23.57\00:13:27.20
the model T.
00:13:27.24\00:13:28.80
Not an old car model T,
00:13:28.84\00:13:30.37
but the T model that
you use which is a cross,
00:13:30.41\00:13:34.74
it's a model of a cross
00:13:34.78\00:13:36.91
and how you write on the left
00:13:36.95\00:13:39.51
and what you write on
the right side of that cross
00:13:39.55\00:13:42.75
and why it is
important that people see this?
00:13:42.78\00:13:46.59
So what I do is when
people come in like Sheri.
00:13:46.62\00:13:49.72
I have a cross on my white board
00:13:49.76\00:13:51.86
and on left side I write
down what they're bringing in,
00:13:51.89\00:13:54.26
for her it was shame.
00:13:54.30\00:13:55.93
As we pray and God unfolded
that it was the abortion
00:13:55.96\00:13:58.87
and then the
belief I'm a murderer,
00:13:58.90\00:14:00.24
it's my fault.
00:14:00.27\00:14:01.60
So that's on the left
side which she is dealing with.
00:14:01.64\00:14:04.01
On the right hand I will start
writing down Jesus' journey
00:14:04.04\00:14:06.98
from Gethsemane to Calvary.
00:14:07.01\00:14:08.54
He is alone, He is abandoned,
00:14:08.58\00:14:11.01
He is betrayed.
00:14:11.05\00:14:12.38
When He is alone,
00:14:12.41\00:14:13.75
is He tempted to look
for love in a wrong places?
00:14:13.78\00:14:15.48
Sure, He's tempted
like us in all points,
00:14:15.52\00:14:17.02
He's betrayed.
00:14:17.05\00:14:18.39
Is He tempted to
trust in his own strength
00:14:18.42\00:14:19.85
and protect himself?
00:14:19.89\00:14:21.22
Sure, He strip naked,
00:14:21.26\00:14:22.72
He's physically,
verbally, mentally abused.
00:14:22.76\00:14:25.09
On the cross He's
tempted with the wine vinegar
00:14:25.13\00:14:27.03
mix to numb His pain.
00:14:27.06\00:14:28.93
We're all
tempted to numb our pain.
00:14:28.96\00:14:30.30
Does He know what it's
like to suffer being tempted
00:14:30.33\00:14:33.23
to numb His pain?
00:14:33.27\00:14:34.60
He didn't, He
trusted in His father
00:14:34.64\00:14:36.00
but does He know
like scripture says
00:14:36.04\00:14:38.27
that He actually
suffered with that temptation,
00:14:38.31\00:14:40.28
it was actually
attractive to human nature.
00:14:40.31\00:14:43.81
And then He cries out,
"Why you've forsaken Me,''
00:14:43.85\00:14:46.58
where He is not
sure He is being tempted
00:14:46.61\00:14:48.42
to believe His
Father has not accepted Him
00:14:48.45\00:14:50.99
that He has
rejected Him forever.
00:14:51.02\00:14:53.19
So there is other
places where He suffered
00:14:53.22\00:14:55.56
so I connect Sheri's
story with Jesus' story,
00:14:55.59\00:14:58.59
and He happened to
become the sin bearer
00:14:58.63\00:15:00.20
to guilt offering,
00:15:00.23\00:15:01.76
and He died not only
for her sinful behavior
00:15:01.80\00:15:04.17
but her sinful nature.
00:15:04.20\00:15:06.67
He who knew no sin was
actually made to be sin.
00:15:06.70\00:15:10.47
So how far did He go
to identify with her?
00:15:10.51\00:15:12.57
He was made to be everything
in her life, the loneliness,
00:15:12.61\00:15:15.88
to looking for love
outside of marriage,
00:15:15.91\00:15:17.81
to getting pregnant
and having the abortion.
00:15:17.85\00:15:20.35
We're not justifying it
but we're saying she's scared,
00:15:20.38\00:15:22.35
she doesn't know what to do,
00:15:22.38\00:15:23.72
Jesus took everything
connected to her story
00:15:23.75\00:15:26.42
to death on the cross
00:15:26.45\00:15:27.79
and the intense
overwhelming shame
00:15:27.82\00:15:30.69
that were sitting there
00:15:30.73\00:15:32.06
in the background for 40 years,
00:15:32.09\00:15:33.86
and then her
daughter has a miscarriage,
00:15:33.90\00:15:36.67
and the devil goes
boom, this is who you are.
00:15:36.70\00:15:38.93
And she doesn't know
00:15:38.97\00:15:40.30
it's the devil talking to
her in first person language,
00:15:40.34\00:15:42.40
and then here is the problem
00:15:42.44\00:15:43.77
and she doesn't get
healing and freedom,
00:15:43.81\00:15:45.17
can she be there
for her daughter.
00:15:45.21\00:15:47.61
She looks at her
daughter, she goes I did this,
00:15:47.64\00:15:49.08
she can't be there,
00:15:49.11\00:15:50.45
so what's the devil
gonna say to her daughter?
00:15:50.48\00:15:51.98
Where is my mom,
00:15:52.01\00:15:53.35
how come my mom's not with
me in my time of grief and loss?
00:15:53.38\00:15:55.88
So the devil is
getting this domino effect...
00:15:55.92\00:15:58.55
He always does, doesn't he?
00:15:58.59\00:16:00.76
But the good news is
00:16:00.79\00:16:02.12
when she gets
healing and freedom,
00:16:02.16\00:16:03.49
God gets the domino
effect, she can share her story,
00:16:03.53\00:16:06.70
she can be present with her
daughter in the grief and loss
00:16:06.73\00:16:09.26
because she has got
healing and freedom.
00:16:09.30\00:16:11.07
Amen. Amen.
00:16:11.10\00:16:12.80
The behavior was confessed
and forgiven 2000 years ago,
00:16:12.83\00:16:15.54
I mean, 40 years ago.
00:16:15.57\00:16:17.94
Jesus took care of
that 2000 years ago.
00:16:17.97\00:16:20.71
But now we're dealing
with that belief system,
00:16:20.74\00:16:22.58
that negative
thought about herself
00:16:22.61\00:16:24.48
that's gotten triggered,
00:16:24.51\00:16:25.85
it was there in the background.
00:16:25.88\00:16:27.65
The miscarriage
happened the trigger,
00:16:27.68\00:16:29.02
something else
could have triggered
00:16:29.05\00:16:30.39
but that's what triggered,
00:16:30.42\00:16:31.75
and I was able to watch God
00:16:31.79\00:16:33.19
bring this
precious daughter of his,
00:16:33.22\00:16:35.66
not only into forgiveness
00:16:35.69\00:16:37.03
but forgiveness in freedom
00:16:37.06\00:16:38.39
where she is receiving
the fullness of forgiveness
00:16:38.43\00:16:40.50
and she is using her
testimony for God's glory.
00:16:40.53\00:16:43.06
When did you
begin this ministry?
00:16:43.10\00:16:44.93
What year?
00:16:44.97\00:16:47.57
I started ministry in 1987,
00:16:47.60\00:16:50.67
and I started dealing
with people seeing teenagers,
00:16:50.71\00:16:53.78
adult broken in churches,
00:16:53.81\00:16:55.14
and then I went
to another church
00:16:55.18\00:16:56.51
and still more brokenness,
00:16:56.54\00:16:57.88
and so I started
looking at brokenness,
00:16:57.91\00:16:59.71
and how does God want to
minister to it in '87, '88.
00:16:59.75\00:17:03.65
But it was in
1990 that I said God,
00:17:03.69\00:17:06.76
I know your cross has power
in Christ to forgive my sins.
00:17:06.79\00:17:12.29
And I know healing is possible.
00:17:12.33\00:17:16.20
How does the cross answered
the brokenness in our life
00:17:16.23\00:17:18.97
and the suffering
00:17:19.00\00:17:20.37
and that's when
I started writing
00:17:20.40\00:17:21.80
the cross on that board,
00:17:21.84\00:17:23.17
that model T
you've talked about,
00:17:23.20\00:17:25.14
that here is this
T in my white board
00:17:25.17\00:17:27.04
with their story on one side
00:17:27.08\00:17:28.74
and Jesus' story on the other.
00:17:28.78\00:17:30.75
And as that
happened people like Sheri,
00:17:30.78\00:17:33.01
I started noticing
that we're getting,
00:17:33.05\00:17:34.48
they were sharing more,
00:17:34.52\00:17:35.85
they were sharing
at a deeper level,
00:17:35.88\00:17:37.82
and we were praying more
00:17:37.85\00:17:39.19
and they were
getting deeper healing
00:17:39.22\00:17:40.56
and moving into ministry.
00:17:40.59\00:17:41.92
So it was kind of
slowly catching on to me
00:17:41.96\00:17:43.86
that there is
something in Christ suffering
00:17:43.89\00:17:46.03
and being alone,
00:17:46.06\00:17:47.40
abandoned and betrayed, abused,
00:17:47.43\00:17:49.16
tempted to numb
His pain and saying,
00:17:49.20\00:17:51.03
why have You forsaken Me.
00:17:51.07\00:17:52.53
There was something
that was more powerful than
00:17:52.57\00:17:54.27
what I could offer them.
00:17:54.30\00:17:55.74
Human counseling
can't set her free.
00:17:55.77\00:17:58.57
It could help, it can listen
00:17:58.61\00:18:00.21
but Jesus in His suffering,
00:18:00.24\00:18:02.18
death and resurrection,
being a sin bearer,
00:18:02.21\00:18:04.68
the guilt bearer
can take everything
00:18:04.71\00:18:06.51
connected to her story.
00:18:06.55\00:18:08.28
All of her negative thoughts
00:18:08.32\00:18:09.65
and that negative identity
about herself to the cross
00:18:09.68\00:18:11.89
and then through
His resurrection power,
00:18:11.92\00:18:14.09
she gets freedom.
00:18:14.12\00:18:15.89
She moves into ministry
00:18:15.92\00:18:17.26
and her story gives
hope to other people.
00:18:17.29\00:18:18.83
You know this is when
they are really appreciates
00:18:18.86\00:18:21.33
and you broke that
you make it very clear,
00:18:21.36\00:18:23.47
if you ever have to use,
00:18:23.50\00:18:25.50
you are a
licensed family counselor
00:18:25.53\00:18:28.20
but you make it very clear,
00:18:28.24\00:18:29.57
if you ever have to draw
on your counseling training
00:18:29.60\00:18:34.11
then you've missed the boat
that this is all about prayer,
00:18:34.14\00:18:36.78
it's all about God.
00:18:36.81\00:18:39.18
It's really fascinating
00:18:39.21\00:18:40.92
because when I
read this I'm thinking
00:18:40.95\00:18:43.65
of course I know
this, I mean, I was just,
00:18:43.69\00:18:45.62
it's interesting when
your book came into my life,
00:18:45.65\00:18:48.09
I've been writing
sermon on Gethsemane
00:18:48.12\00:18:51.39
so all of these things
were just fresh on my mind.
00:18:51.43\00:18:54.26
I mean, it was just
00:18:54.30\00:18:55.63
the going through this
whole struggle of Christ
00:18:55.66\00:18:59.97
and how He was...
00:19:00.00\00:19:02.37
I mean Hebrews 2:17, 18,
00:19:02.40\00:19:03.74
it's really
coming alive to me that
00:19:03.77\00:19:05.64
you know, yes,
00:19:05.67\00:19:07.04
He was made like us in
everyway He does understand.
00:19:07.08\00:19:09.74
But I still didn't see
it as part of the gospel
00:19:09.78\00:19:12.25
till I read your book.
00:19:12.28\00:19:13.68
And so, you know,
there is sometimes,
00:19:13.72\00:19:17.39
I think I actually asked myself
00:19:17.42\00:19:19.62
why did He have
to suffer like this,
00:19:19.65\00:19:21.62
I mean, the cross was bad enough
00:19:21.66\00:19:24.89
but to receive the beating
00:19:24.93\00:19:27.56
that He received to
where His muscles were torn
00:19:27.60\00:19:30.90
and He lost so much blood
before He went to the cross.
00:19:30.93\00:19:33.94
We think of His
blood loss at the cross
00:19:33.97\00:19:37.21
but the Bible says
00:19:37.24\00:19:38.91
in both Isaiah and Peter
wrote that by his stripes,
00:19:38.94\00:19:44.11
we will be
healed by his stripes,
00:19:44.15\00:19:46.78
we are healed.
00:19:46.82\00:19:48.15
With the stripes
we're received as His child.
00:19:48.18\00:19:50.72
So it's a fascinating your book
00:19:50.75\00:19:54.59
what I appreciate about it is...
00:19:54.62\00:19:58.56
It's so simple
because it's in story format
00:19:58.59\00:20:01.50
that a sixth grader
could sit down and read it
00:20:01.53\00:20:03.40
and yet the theology is so deep,
00:20:03.43\00:20:05.60
if you really want
to get off into it,
00:20:05.63\00:20:07.50
it's incredible.
00:20:07.54\00:20:08.94
So did God as
you were seeing this,
00:20:08.97\00:20:13.14
did God sit you down first
00:20:13.17\00:20:15.34
and work through
your issues from the past,
00:20:15.38\00:20:18.15
did you fill resistant to it,
00:20:18.18\00:20:20.42
do you have people,
you've seen so many,
00:20:20.45\00:20:23.28
you've an incredible testimony,
00:20:23.32\00:20:25.09
so lot of people that
are moving into ministry,
00:20:25.12\00:20:27.99
but what kind of resistance
00:20:28.02\00:20:31.39
did you have to this
yourself in the beginning.
00:20:31.43\00:20:34.26
So God started talking to me
00:20:34.30\00:20:36.46
and said I want to deal with
some of the stuff in your past.
00:20:36.50\00:20:38.17
And I said no,
00:20:38.20\00:20:39.53
I got my
pastoral ministry major,
00:20:39.57\00:20:40.90
I'm in full pastoral
ministry, it's in the past.
00:20:40.94\00:20:43.47
God said no.
00:20:43.51\00:20:44.84
He disagreed with me,
00:20:44.87\00:20:46.21
so we had an arm
wrestling match and He won.
00:20:46.24\00:20:47.94
And so now, you know,
00:20:47.98\00:20:51.11
so I'm sharing
this out of grown,
00:20:51.15\00:20:52.51
my own growth
experience and I find it,
00:20:52.55\00:20:54.98
if I teach what
I've been living,
00:20:55.02\00:20:57.12
what I'm learning,
00:20:57.15\00:20:58.49
it makes more of an impact than
00:20:58.52\00:20:59.85
if I'm just
teaching from my head,
00:20:59.89\00:21:01.22
but God wanted me to deal
00:21:01.26\00:21:02.59
with some of the
stuff from my past
00:21:02.62\00:21:03.96
go to the deeper
levels of forgiveness
00:21:03.99\00:21:06.09
and freedom in dealing with
some of the negative thoughts
00:21:06.13\00:21:08.00
I had so that I'm
like 2 Corinthians says
00:21:08.03\00:21:11.17
we comfort others with
the comfort we received.
00:21:11.20\00:21:13.80
But is this where
you learned, I mean,
00:21:13.84\00:21:16.57
how did God show you
to connect Christ story.
00:21:16.60\00:21:19.17
Is that when He
was dealing with you,
00:21:19.21\00:21:21.08
is this when you
kind of were going
00:21:21.11\00:21:22.58
through the last hours
of Christ life and saying,
00:21:22.61\00:21:26.25
hey, this really
makes a difference
00:21:26.28\00:21:28.08
to understand that He
identified with me this way.
00:21:28.12\00:21:30.92
Well, I started
ministering in '87,
00:21:30.95\00:21:32.75
started working in '88,
started working with people,
00:21:32.79\00:21:34.52
saw lot of
brokenness and then in 1999
00:21:34.56\00:21:36.76
I was seeing God do some more,
00:21:36.79\00:21:38.23
but I was saying okay,
00:21:38.26\00:21:40.00
another cross
deals with forgiveness.
00:21:40.03\00:21:42.86
And I know
there is some healing,
00:21:42.90\00:21:44.23
but how do we really,
00:21:44.27\00:21:45.60
how does the cross
address brokenness in a way
00:21:45.63\00:21:46.97
we get healing and freedom.
00:21:47.00\00:21:48.34
And that's where I started
00:21:48.37\00:21:49.70
drawing the cross
on the white board
00:21:49.74\00:21:51.07
where I put their
story of anger pain,
00:21:51.11\00:21:53.81
Sheri's it would be
abortion, loneliness
00:21:53.84\00:21:57.55
and you know it's my
fault, I'm a murderer.
00:21:57.58\00:21:59.58
So we put her story
on the left hand side,
00:21:59.61\00:22:01.58
on the right hand side
we're saying Jesus was alone,
00:22:01.62\00:22:03.85
abandoned, betrayed, abused,
tempted to numb His pain,
00:22:03.89\00:22:07.32
took all of her sin in suffering
00:22:07.36\00:22:08.69
to death on the cross,
00:22:08.72\00:22:10.06
cried out why
have You forsaken Me.
00:22:10.09\00:22:11.43
So he took everything in
her story into His death.
00:22:11.46\00:22:14.43
So that's when I
started doing probably in 1990
00:22:14.46\00:22:17.47
but what I noticed was
as I shared their story
00:22:17.50\00:22:19.53
and connected with Jesus' story
00:22:19.57\00:22:21.37
and it happened overtime,
00:22:21.40\00:22:22.74
it wasn't like
some big uh-huh moment.
00:22:22.77\00:22:24.64
But as it happened,
00:22:24.67\00:22:26.01
I found people
shared it at a deeper level,
00:22:26.04\00:22:27.74
so they were sharing more,
00:22:27.78\00:22:29.31
we were praying more
and they were getting more
00:22:29.34\00:22:30.68
healing and freedom.
00:22:30.71\00:22:32.05
Amen.
00:22:32.08\00:22:33.42
You know, I think
that at least for me
00:22:33.45\00:22:38.65
something that I have
felt is that I'm almost...
00:22:38.69\00:22:43.09
I don't want,
00:22:43.12\00:22:44.46
I was ashamed as a
Christian to talk about my past.
00:22:44.49\00:22:48.93
You know, Isaiah says
God said in Isaiah, you know,
00:22:48.96\00:22:52.03
forget the past,
don't dwell on the past,
00:22:52.07\00:22:53.97
I'm doing a new thing in you,
00:22:54.00\00:22:55.57
it was spring forth,
suddenly we not perceive it.
00:22:55.60\00:22:59.24
Paul talks about not,
you know, looking ahead,
00:22:59.27\00:23:02.81
not behind for
getting what is behind
00:23:02.84\00:23:04.41
and pressing on toward the goal
00:23:04.45\00:23:06.11
for which he is called
heaven work in Christ Jesus.
00:23:06.15\00:23:09.05
So I think that
00:23:09.08\00:23:13.42
it was not just that
I was afraid of the pain
00:23:13.46\00:23:16.02
but I was ashamed to say that
there was anything in the past
00:23:16.06\00:23:18.83
that still bothered me,
00:23:18.86\00:23:20.43
and then when I went
into full time ministry,
00:23:20.46\00:23:23.93
it was interesting
because the Lord told me,
00:23:23.97\00:23:26.50
I mean, I had been
in the corporate world
00:23:26.53\00:23:28.44
and you know I had
done a lot of training
00:23:28.47\00:23:30.87
but the Lord told me,
00:23:30.91\00:23:32.77
hands off you don't get to do,
00:23:32.81\00:23:34.28
you don't get
to use an employee,
00:23:34.31\00:23:36.21
those same things you did there.
00:23:36.24\00:23:38.11
You gonna speak from your heart
00:23:38.15\00:23:40.02
and suddenly I
started sharing about my past.
00:23:40.05\00:23:43.32
I mean, I never
even admitted to anyone
00:23:43.35\00:23:45.75
that my mother was bipolar
00:23:45.79\00:23:47.12
or that she had
a drinking problem.
00:23:47.16\00:23:49.06
I never admitted
to anyone the things
00:23:49.09\00:23:51.46
that I had gone through,
00:23:51.49\00:23:53.16
and it was so
interesting that as you share
00:23:53.19\00:23:58.17
there is something
cathartic about sharing
00:23:58.20\00:24:00.57
because there is...
00:24:00.60\00:24:02.24
And part of it was pride,
00:24:02.27\00:24:04.01
like I didn't want
to talk about my sister
00:24:04.04\00:24:05.84
being a drug addict.
00:24:05.87\00:24:07.28
And I finally
recognize this is pride,
00:24:07.31\00:24:10.05
but when God told
me you have to be open,
00:24:10.08\00:24:13.42
you have to share from
that place of brokenness
00:24:13.45\00:24:16.25
because that's how
what I share it whether
00:24:16.28\00:24:19.09
it was exalting His word
or pressing into His presence,
00:24:19.12\00:24:21.92
the grace pipeline,
00:24:21.96\00:24:23.29
any of these teachings that
I predominantly put forward.
00:24:23.32\00:24:26.46
It's all things
that God taught me
00:24:26.49\00:24:28.76
as He was leading
me out of darkness
00:24:28.80\00:24:31.27
and into His marvelous light.
00:24:31.30\00:24:32.83
Even though I was a
Christian, you know,
00:24:32.87\00:24:34.57
you're still in this darkness.
00:24:34.60\00:24:36.30
So could you talk about
that, do you think people are,
00:24:36.34\00:24:39.87
and I still think
that there are some things
00:24:39.91\00:24:41.24
that I probably need to
like go up from the past that
00:24:41.28\00:24:44.81
maybe I have it yet but
00:24:44.85\00:24:47.12
do you find that
Christians are sometimes
00:24:47.15\00:24:50.79
it's too painful or too prideful
00:24:50.82\00:24:52.69
to deal with the past.
00:24:52.72\00:24:54.26
I mean it could
be pain and pride.
00:24:54.29\00:24:56.19
And we carry a lot of shame
00:24:56.22\00:24:57.56
because if you tell
people your mom was bipolar,
00:24:57.59\00:24:59.46
what are they
gonna think of you.
00:24:59.49\00:25:00.93
So in the church we
need to have more safety
00:25:00.96\00:25:03.63
where we can share our
story and not be fixed,
00:25:03.67\00:25:06.03
not be judged and
have people listen to us
00:25:06.07\00:25:08.54
and pray with us.
00:25:08.57\00:25:10.34
And so, you know,
00:25:10.37\00:25:11.71
the quote Paul that
says put the past in the past
00:25:11.74\00:25:13.41
but when he does that,
00:25:13.44\00:25:14.78
if you look in the
chapter where he does that,
00:25:14.81\00:25:16.24
he is listing
everything you put in the past.
00:25:16.28\00:25:18.05
When he gives the testimony,
does he talk about his past?
00:25:18.08\00:25:21.12
He does but it's in
the context of telling
00:25:21.15\00:25:23.35
where God brought him
out of darkness into light.
00:25:23.39\00:25:25.62
So I think God
wants to use our past
00:25:25.65\00:25:27.89
as our story because
it's part of our story
00:25:27.92\00:25:30.33
to share with
other people to connect
00:25:30.36\00:25:32.89
but we've all heard testimonies
00:25:32.93\00:25:34.46
that focus more in the dark side
00:25:34.50\00:25:35.90
then the light of truth.
00:25:35.93\00:25:37.53
Those are not good
00:25:37.57\00:25:38.90
because it end up
glorifying sin, it's...
00:25:38.93\00:25:40.44
Look at all the
fun God saved me from,
00:25:40.47\00:25:41.90
look at all the
bad things I was doing.
00:25:41.94\00:25:44.04
I think we need to
tell enough about our past,
00:25:44.07\00:25:46.31
I don't need to
go into details about
00:25:46.34\00:25:47.68
my bitterness, anger, porn,
00:25:47.71\00:25:50.85
all the drugs and stuff,
00:25:50.88\00:25:52.21
I don't need to
tell all those details.
00:25:52.25\00:25:53.58
I need to know
tell enough to share,
00:25:53.62\00:25:55.55
hey, these are
some of the things
00:25:55.58\00:25:56.92
I was using to cope
and try to medicate my pain
00:25:56.95\00:25:58.75
and survive in life.
00:25:58.79\00:26:01.06
But then I want
to talk more about
00:26:01.09\00:26:02.42
what are those negative thoughts
00:26:02.46\00:26:03.79
and what does God done for me,
00:26:03.83\00:26:05.16
and now I travel
around this country
00:26:05.19\00:26:07.00
and other countries
helping people with abused,
00:26:07.03\00:26:09.03
trauma and addictions
00:26:09.06\00:26:10.40
because God used my story
00:26:10.43\00:26:12.43
to open up a door for ministry
and share with other people.
00:26:12.47\00:26:17.17
And so our story,
when you hear someone else
00:26:17.21\00:26:19.84
share about
their mom being bipolar
00:26:19.87\00:26:21.24
or they're struggling
with something similar you do,
00:26:21.28\00:26:23.24
there is this aha-aha moment,
00:26:23.28\00:26:24.61
uh, they
understand if I told them,
00:26:24.65\00:26:26.98
did I struggle with anger.
00:26:27.02\00:26:28.35
If I told them I struggled
with porn, pornography,
00:26:28.38\00:26:30.32
whatever it is,
00:26:30.35\00:26:31.69
if I told them they
are not gonna judge me,
00:26:31.72\00:26:33.25
because I've
just heard him share
00:26:33.29\00:26:34.82
in a way that I
know they've been broken
00:26:34.86\00:26:36.66
and God has done
something in my life.
00:26:36.69\00:26:38.03
My co-writer Lindsey,
00:26:38.06\00:26:39.39
you know came out of a lot
of brokenness and abandonment,
00:26:39.43\00:26:41.53
you know, and it
led to depression
00:26:41.56\00:26:43.00
and a suicide attempt.
00:26:43.03\00:26:44.37
Well, now, God's given her
a lot of healing and freedom,
00:26:44.40\00:26:46.74
she was my co-writer,
she's written her own book,
00:26:46.77\00:26:48.74
so God's now using her
story to bless other people,
00:26:48.77\00:26:51.54
so I think using
our past in a way
00:26:51.57\00:26:53.34
that it bring glory of God,
00:26:53.38\00:26:54.84
showing what He's done
for us is very power...
00:26:54.88\00:26:57.55
I mean, I think of Sheri story.
00:26:57.58\00:27:00.18
She gave me
permission to share her story.
00:27:00.22\00:27:02.78
How many women are
sitting in our churches
00:27:02.82\00:27:04.49
that had an abortion
would never tell anybody
00:27:04.52\00:27:06.32
because of shame.
00:27:06.35\00:27:07.69
Now, Sheri's story gives them
00:27:07.72\00:27:09.19
permission to seek
healing and freedom.
00:27:09.22\00:27:10.56
Yes.
00:27:10.59\00:27:11.93
Well, it's just amazing to me
00:27:11.96\00:27:14.00
how the Lord works to heal
00:27:14.03\00:27:17.07
and how He's using a ministry
00:27:17.10\00:27:18.77
and we just want to
thank you once again
00:27:18.80\00:27:20.34
Paul for being here today.
00:27:20.37\00:27:22.94
For those of you at home,
00:27:22.97\00:27:24.31
if you're
interested in inviting Paul
00:27:24.34\00:27:27.58
maybe to come to your
church and do a training,
00:27:27.61\00:27:29.81
you can go to his
website straight2theheart.com
00:27:29.84\00:27:36.25
and that's a number
two, straight2theheart.com.
00:27:36.28\00:27:40.86
And if you're
interested in getting his book,
00:27:40.89\00:27:42.86
The Hidden Half of the Gospel,
00:27:42.89\00:27:44.83
this is something
I highly recommend
00:27:44.86\00:27:47.93
and you can go to hiddenhalf.org
00:27:47.96\00:27:53.74
to order the book.
00:27:53.77\00:27:55.10
And as I said,
00:27:55.14\00:27:56.47
we've already
supplied all of our pastors
00:27:56.50\00:27:58.47
here with this book
because it is a prayer ministry
00:27:58.51\00:28:02.48
but there is
healing in the stories
00:28:02.51\00:28:05.38
and healing in understanding
00:28:05.41\00:28:07.02
how Christ
identifies with us in everyway.
00:28:07.05\00:28:10.79
He was tempted in everyway
as we are yet without sin.
00:28:10.82\00:28:15.06
Well, our prayer for you
is that the grace of our Lord
00:28:15.09\00:28:17.23
and Savior Jesus Christ,
00:28:17.26\00:28:18.63
the love of the Father
00:28:18.66\00:28:20.00
and the
fellowship of the Holy Spirit
00:28:20.03\00:28:21.96
would be with you always.
00:28:22.00\00:28:23.40