In 1 Corinthians
15:57, Paul wrote saying,
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"Thanks be to God who gives
us the victory in Christ Jesus."
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Have you accepted
Christ as your Savior
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and sincerely
believe you've been saved,
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yet you are not experiencing
complete healing in your life?
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Please join us today
on Issues and Answers
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as we discuss how
to get beyond the past,
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let God do the
healing so that you can walk
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in complete victory.
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Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
and we welcome you once again
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to Issues and Answers.
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I am so excited that we
have a special guest today
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that we've invited to come back,
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he's done it today
program here on 3ABN,
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but his ministry is incredible
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and we wanted you
to have the opportunity
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to hear a little more
from him without further adieu,
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let me introduce Paul
Coneff who is a pastor,
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licensed family counselor.
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But more
importantly you are the founder
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of Straight 2
the Heart Ministries
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and you're an author of a book
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called, The Hidden
Half of the Gospel.
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You can see Paul by
the way this book is,
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is fanning out that I
have devoured your book.
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This is an excellent
book and it is all about
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how Christ
sufferings help heal our wounds.
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If you were to give me
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a 20 word definition
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of The Hidden
Half of the Gospel,
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what would it be?
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Christ suffered.
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That's what he said
as part of his gospel
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so he could dentify
with us, relate to us,
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so we can know
that he's gone through
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what we've gone
through as part of the gospel
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that will heal
us and set us free.
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Amen.
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And it's so true, when
I was reading your book,
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the first
thought that I, you know,
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when we think of the gospel,
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we think of the idea
that God sent His Son
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to die for us while
we were yet sinners,
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that through His
death, burial and resurrection
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that we, as we accept Him
as our Savior can be saved.
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We're redeemed, we are
forgiven, we're cleansed
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and all the
things that go with that.
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So when I first saw your
book laying on someone's desk,
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The Hidden Half of the Gospel,
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I thought well, what
more is there to the gospel.
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As I read it
these are things we know
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but we don't really
like, like the disciples.
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When Christ kept telling
them over and over again,
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He would have to suffer and die
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and somehow the
message it was kind of like.
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That's what we do with this idea
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of we don't understand
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that Christ
suffered to fulfill prophecy.
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He became like us in all ways,
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so that He could be
our faithful high priest
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and that His suffering
is part of His ministry,
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it's part of the gospel.
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It's amazing, I love
your book. Thank you.
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So, let's...
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I'm just going
to throw it to you.
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Let's get started
because you have us
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an amazing story to tell us
about someone who was baptized,
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sincerely accepted Christ
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but came up with
the same problems
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that she went
into the water with.
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Diana is one of the
first story in my book.
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We kind of laid the
foundation for Jesus suffered
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to identify with us.
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To forgive us and to
heal us and set us free.
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And Diana as a child
had been sexually abused
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by a family friend.
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I wouldn't call him a friend
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but that's his
position in the family.
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Yes.
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And so out of that
she ended up learning
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to believe a negative thought,
I have to keep myself safe
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and if you're
four and five years old
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and you've been
abused, you've been hurt,
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that would be an
easy thought to have.
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It's my responsibility
to keep myself safe
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because no one is
here to protect me.
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So eventually as she
tried to protect herself
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and worry about
how to protect herself,
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it grew into
fear, panic attacks,
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she became an adult, she
got married, she had kids,
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but she ended up with
agoraphobia, claustrophobia.
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She's scared of open
places and close spaces.
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So the fear went to
panic attacks to these,
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to being afraid of
open or close spaces
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and then she ended
up with irritable bowel
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which is basically a
situation where for some people
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your stomach is tied not
to end up having diarrhea.
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Well, the more she worries
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about having to
keep herself safe
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and she's trying to be
on guard to protect herself,
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her mind and her body is
working, working, working
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and it's getting worse.
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So she ends up
accepting Christ sincerely.
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She ends up getting
Bible studies from a pastor.
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He's a friend of
mine Pastor Greg Sheller.
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He's a very good
pastor, they did Bible study.
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She sincerely believed
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what he was
teaching her in a word.
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She sincerely got baptized.
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But when she got
baptized all of her fear,
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her panic attacks,
her claustrophobia,
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agoraphobia and
there were about came up
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out of the baptistery with her.
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So she's giving her testimony
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but she's talking
about the panic attacks.
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So Pastor Greg and I
talked to her and said,
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"Hey, we'd like to
share with you my ministry
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and we'd like to pray with you."
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About a year later she says,
"I'm willing to accept prayer."
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And we asked her
why did you take a year?
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She said, "Because I
wasn't worth your time."
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See her belief system
became a negative identity
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and if she's not worth our time,
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why would she accept the offer.
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Oh, that's so sad.
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It is, and the
power of Satan's lies
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because Jesus said,
"He's the father of lies."
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So we want to
deal with those lies,
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the roots behind her
negative feelings and behaviors.
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We're not going to
minimize negative feelings.
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We're not going to minimize
negative or sinful behaviors,
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but we want to deal
with those root issues,
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those root lies
because one Jesus did say,
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"Satan is the father of lies."
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So that's the root issue.
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The other reason is
those lives become my identity
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and it's my filter
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through which I see
the word, the world.
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How I see God in others.
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So my belief system is,
I have to keep myself safe.
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My mind will be
working overtime all the time
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trying to keep myself safe.
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And she's driving and
not letting her husband drive
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not because she's
trying to be a control freak,
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but she doesn't feel safe
unless she's at the wheel.
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It's not just she doesn't
believe her husband can drive.
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It's that I have
to be in control.
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I have to be on guard
because otherwise I can be hurt.
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And, you know, this is something
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that when you said that
Satan is trying to rob us
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of our identity.
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I have said in a
previous book that I wrote,
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I mentioned that the greatest
crisis in the church today
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in my personal opinion
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is that we do not
know who we are in Christ.
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We don't know the freedom.
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We don't know that
haven't experienced the healing,
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so we have this identity crisis.
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Much like when
the 12 spies went out
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and, you know, when Moses
said, "Okay, you can go out."
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God says, "Yep,
you can send them."
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When they came back,
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ten of them had
this identity crisis.
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They saw
themselves as grasshoppers
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compared to the
giants in the land.
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Well, that's pretty much
what's going on in the church,
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we come, we've got
the verbal camouflage,
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we can come to church
and there are so many people
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who happy
Sabbath, happy Sabbath.
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But inside they
may really be wounded
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and they don't know
who, to whom they can speak.
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They don't know how to
even articulate their problem.
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So here you've got a
woman who's been baptized,
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joined the church,
accepted Christ as her Savior,
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yet the fruit,
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the behavior of her
problem is still very apparent,
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it's still blossoming
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because you haven't
got into the root issue.
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So Diana has a lot of sincerity
and she doesn't have victory.
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But the disciples were sincere
when they said we wouldn't,
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they wouldn't deny Christ
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and they were only
sincerely publicly,
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spectacularly wrong
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because again they
had a belief system,
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militant Messiah.
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And so Jesus is telling them,
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"I'm going to come and
suffer, die and rise again,
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I'm the suffer Messiah."
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And they couldn't accept it
because their belief systems
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kept them from receiving
truth from a perfect teacher
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with perfect truth
and perfect doctrine.
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So if that lie is sitting
there and it runs into truth,
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it tends to reject the truth.
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It can't receive it.
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So we want Diana to
not only receive baptism,
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receive Jesus, we want
her to receive victory.
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And now we connect her
story with Jesus story,
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because you
mentioned it earlier,
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He was tempted like us,
made like us in all ways,
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yet without sin.
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So she's been
physically, verbally abused,
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sexual abused.
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Jesus is betrayed by a kiss,
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somebody close
to Him betrays Him.
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He's stripped naked
and physically violated,
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shamed and humiliated.
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Was He tempted
with the belief system,
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I'm not safe. I
have to protect myself.
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I have to take control.
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According to scripture,
He was tempted to believe
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when He was being mistreated
and physically violated.
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I'm not safe and
physically He wasn't safe.
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But His identity
was secured in Jesus,
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in the Father,
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so instead of
trying to take control,
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He was able to stay
surrendered to the father.
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You know, I had to
just interject this thought.
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Since He was tempted
in all ways as we are,
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surely He was tempted
to protect Himself to stop,
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you know, no one
likes physical pain
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and so His
humanity, in His humanity
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surely He was tempted as we are
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as Diana was to
try to protect herself.
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Yet I think of it,
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His temptation was
a thousand times more
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because Diana as a young child
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she couldn't protect herself.
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Christ could have
called a legion of angels,
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He could have just pointed
His finger and zapped them
00:10:04.33\00:10:07.14
so, His temptation
was so much stronger
00:10:07.17\00:10:10.61
than our temptation
when you think about it.
00:10:10.64\00:10:13.11
It was, He told His disciples,
00:10:13.14\00:10:14.84
"I could call twelve legions
of angels, I don't need you,
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I can replace you
with a legion of angels."
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And often I'll ask people
how many angels did He need
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and they'll say one,
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and I will say how
about one less than one
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because He made the angels.
00:10:24.35\00:10:25.69
Yeah.
00:10:25.72\00:10:27.06
So like you said, He
could have zapped them.
00:10:27.09\00:10:28.42
So He's tempted,
00:10:28.46\00:10:29.79
He stays connected to His Father
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because His identity is
secure in being the Son of God
00:10:31.19\00:10:35.16
with His Father loving Him.
00:10:35.20\00:10:36.53
The difference is, I go
through negative experiences,
00:10:36.56\00:10:38.73
Diana goes through
negative experiences.
00:10:38.77\00:10:40.74
We believe these lies
without even realizing it,
00:10:40.77\00:10:43.41
because the
devil is not coming up
00:10:43.44\00:10:44.77
and saying you're
stupid, you're no good,
00:10:44.81\00:10:46.47
you have to be in
control, you're not safe.
00:10:46.51\00:10:48.74
I get a thought I am not safe.
00:10:48.78\00:10:51.21
I am bad, I am
rejected. First person.
00:10:51.25\00:10:53.15
First person, and I
think it's my thought
00:10:53.18\00:10:55.78
so now He's got His seeds
as it turn into a root system
00:10:55.82\00:10:58.59
and then I read God's
word and I want to believe it.
00:10:58.62\00:11:02.12
And in my head, I
want to believe it
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but my heart
says something else.
00:11:04.16\00:11:05.73
So we were able
to pray with her,
00:11:05.76\00:11:07.20
connect her to Jesus
who was betrayed by a kiss.
00:11:07.23\00:11:10.73
Stripped naked,
physically violated.
00:11:10.77\00:11:13.34
Mentally and verbally
abused to identify with her
00:11:13.37\00:11:15.97
to take all of her panic attack,
00:11:16.00\00:11:18.01
all of her phobias, her
fears. Her irritable bowel,
00:11:18.04\00:11:22.21
we prayed that Jesus
took that into His death,
00:11:22.24\00:11:24.61
His suffering, His
death and His resurrection.
00:11:24.65\00:11:26.41
We prayed day after day
00:11:26.45\00:11:27.78
during a series of
meetings when I was there,
00:11:27.82\00:11:29.42
and she ended up with
an awful lot of freedom,
00:11:29.45\00:11:31.75
and then I had to go on a trip.
00:11:31.79\00:11:33.79
I continued praying with her
because it's not a quick fix.
00:11:33.82\00:11:36.06
It's not a 30 second prayer.
00:11:36.09\00:11:37.69
We all wish we had that,
00:11:37.73\00:11:39.09
but I have a
discipleship process.
00:11:39.13\00:11:41.20
And so what happened
was the pastor asked her
00:11:41.23\00:11:43.80
to help her with the
depression way out seminar
00:11:43.83\00:11:45.40
that he was doing at the church.
00:11:45.43\00:11:47.07
And so after she
gets a lot of healing,
00:11:47.10\00:11:48.57
she formed a
small group in her home.
00:11:48.60\00:11:51.04
They started
studying the Bible together.
00:11:51.07\00:11:52.91
So she moved into
ministry as a testimony.
00:11:52.94\00:11:55.01
But this one night she's
there at the depression seminar
00:11:55.04\00:11:57.91
and she's
starting to get thoughts,
00:11:57.95\00:11:59.98
"Whom am I to be
giving a testimony."
00:12:00.02\00:12:01.95
Yes. I'm not worthy.
00:12:01.98\00:12:04.22
And she thinks...
00:12:04.25\00:12:05.59
Satan is whispering
into her ear once again.
00:12:05.62\00:12:07.12
And then she gets a
thought, well, I should leave.
00:12:07.16\00:12:10.19
They weren't her thoughts.
00:12:10.23\00:12:11.83
And then she
thought wait a minute,
00:12:11.86\00:12:14.03
I can take every thought captive
00:12:14.06\00:12:15.40
to the obedience of Christ.
00:12:15.43\00:12:16.77
I can talk to God,
share these thoughts
00:12:16.80\00:12:18.50
and receive His
truth in His place.
00:12:18.53\00:12:21.34
So she's praying about it.
00:12:21.37\00:12:22.70
She got peace, she
gave her testimony,
00:12:22.74\00:12:24.11
she ended up being actively
involved in that ministry
00:12:24.14\00:12:26.51
and other
ministries in the church,
00:12:26.54\00:12:27.88
so she's moving into
ministry with a testimony
00:12:27.91\00:12:29.91
with a Jesus who was tempted
not only to believe lies,
00:12:29.94\00:12:34.32
but to doubt His identity
00:12:34.35\00:12:35.68
because every attack against Him
00:12:35.72\00:12:37.05
in the wilderness
began with the words,
00:12:37.09\00:12:38.79
"If you're the Son of God."
00:12:38.82\00:12:41.52
Through his
trials the priest say,
00:12:41.56\00:12:42.96
"If you're the
Son of God tell us,"
00:12:42.99\00:12:45.89
then they blindfold
him and spit in his face
00:12:45.93\00:12:48.50
and they say, "If you're
the Son of God tell us who."
00:12:48.53\00:12:52.30
And then on the cross,
what do they say to Him
00:12:52.33\00:12:53.70
when He's hanging on the cross?
00:12:53.74\00:12:55.07
If you're the Son of God...
00:12:55.10\00:12:56.44
Come down and prove
it. Come down and prove it.
00:12:56.47\00:12:57.81
So all these attacks
00:12:57.84\00:12:59.17
are attacks against His
truest deepest identity.
00:12:59.21\00:13:02.41
So it wasn't as bad
as the physical, verbal,
00:13:02.44\00:13:04.78
sexual abuses and I
don't want to minimize that
00:13:04.81\00:13:06.72
because I work with
that kind of trauma lot
00:13:06.75\00:13:08.35
as a marriage family therapist.
00:13:08.38\00:13:10.25
I would say that the real attack
00:13:10.29\00:13:13.22
is to take her through
these negative experiences
00:13:13.25\00:13:15.29
to set her up with
a negative identity.
00:13:15.32\00:13:17.63
Because if she
doesn't get healing,
00:13:17.66\00:13:19.29
if she doesn't get freedom,
if she doesn't get victory,
00:13:19.33\00:13:22.00
then she begin to doubt
00:13:22.03\00:13:23.37
whether she really has
the assurance of salvation,
00:13:23.40\00:13:25.07
whether she's
really a Christian.
00:13:25.10\00:13:26.60
Does the devil
leave her just struggling
00:13:26.63\00:13:29.20
or does he begin to whisper?
00:13:29.24\00:13:30.57
"Hey, maybe I really
didn't commit to Jesus.
00:13:30.61\00:13:32.64
Maybe salvation
really doesn't have power."
00:13:32.67\00:13:35.11
So it opens a
door for more lies.
00:13:35.14\00:13:36.75
So we were able
to pray with her,
00:13:36.78\00:13:38.88
disciple her over time.
00:13:38.91\00:13:40.52
Have her get into a small group
that she started on her own,
00:13:40.55\00:13:43.15
start sharing her
testimony and move into ministry
00:13:43.18\00:13:46.76
because Jesus had been
making a difference in our life
00:13:46.79\00:13:48.82
because part of our
prayer we close with
00:13:48.86\00:13:51.19
would be, dear, heavenly Father,
00:13:51.23\00:13:53.43
thank you that Jesus fulfilled
prophecy suffering like I did,
00:13:53.46\00:13:57.47
being violated
verbally, mentally, physically,
00:13:57.50\00:14:00.20
taking all of the
way I was violated,
00:14:00.24\00:14:02.27
all my negative
thoughts that I'm alone.
00:14:02.30\00:14:04.61
I'm not safe. I
have to be in control.
00:14:04.64\00:14:07.04
She has to look at her
patterns of self-protection.
00:14:07.08\00:14:09.94
And all the ways that
cause fear and anxiety
00:14:09.98\00:14:12.75
and panic in my life
00:14:12.78\00:14:14.12
and then rising again
to heal me and set me free,
00:14:14.15\00:14:16.65
so I can receive my
truest deepest identity
00:14:16.69\00:14:19.99
as your daughter.
00:14:20.02\00:14:21.46
So we're always
praying that identity issue
00:14:21.49\00:14:23.32
so she's beginning to
let God renew her mind
00:14:23.36\00:14:25.36
and she's seeing herself
00:14:25.39\00:14:26.93
not based on
what was done to her.
00:14:26.96\00:14:29.70
Not in her attempts to
try and protect herself,
00:14:29.73\00:14:32.47
but through
everything God has done for her.
00:14:32.50\00:14:34.57
Amen. Amen.
00:14:34.60\00:14:36.47
I want to back
up for just a second
00:14:36.50\00:14:38.91
because I understand
everything you're saying
00:14:38.94\00:14:42.04
since I have, as I
said devoured your book.
00:14:42.08\00:14:44.65
You were quoting
while ago, 2 Corinthians 10
00:14:44.68\00:14:49.75
and I'm going to
begin with verse 4.
00:14:49.78\00:14:52.62
What Paul writes, "For
the weapons of our warfare
00:14:52.65\00:14:54.89
are not carnal but mighty in God
00:14:54.92\00:14:57.59
for pulling down strongholds."
00:14:57.63\00:15:00.33
Where is the devil's stronghold?
00:15:00.36\00:15:02.46
It's right here.
00:15:02.50\00:15:04.83
The stronghold
is what we believe
00:15:04.87\00:15:07.10
if we have negative beliefs,
00:15:07.14\00:15:09.20
anything that
contradicts the word of God
00:15:09.24\00:15:11.64
about who you are,
about who God says you are.
00:15:11.67\00:15:14.84
Anything that contradicts that
00:15:14.88\00:15:17.51
is it becomes a
stronghold in your mind
00:15:17.55\00:15:19.55
and he's the one
that sets them up.
00:15:19.58\00:15:21.62
So Paul is saying,
"We've got all these weapons."
00:15:21.65\00:15:24.09
And he says,
"Pulling down the strongholds,
00:15:24.12\00:15:26.65
casting down
arguments and every high thing
00:15:26.69\00:15:29.82
that exalts itself
against the knowledge of God,
00:15:29.86\00:15:32.66
bringing every
thought into captivity
00:15:32.69\00:15:36.73
to the obedience of Christ."
00:15:36.77\00:15:38.73
I think the only
way that as human beings
00:15:38.77\00:15:43.34
we can take her thoughts captive
00:15:43.37\00:15:46.07
is we have to replace
them with another thought.
00:15:46.11\00:15:49.38
We have to replace
them with the truth of God.
00:15:49.41\00:15:52.68
How did...
00:15:52.71\00:15:54.05
Let's just kind of
rewind for a second.
00:15:54.08\00:15:56.55
You were a
pastor for many years.
00:15:56.58\00:15:59.59
Tell us how you
got to this place
00:15:59.62\00:16:03.99
of understanding the
hidden half of the gospel,
00:16:04.03\00:16:07.90
that part of the gospel
00:16:07.93\00:16:09.86
is that Christ
suffered in all ways as we did,
00:16:09.90\00:16:13.57
I mean the word says it,
00:16:13.60\00:16:15.04
but to really put
the emphasis on it say,
00:16:15.07\00:16:17.54
hey, this is
where healing comes from
00:16:17.57\00:16:19.34
is when you understand
Christ can identify with you,
00:16:19.37\00:16:23.04
you're not alone.
00:16:23.08\00:16:24.41
He's been through
everything you've gone through.
00:16:24.45\00:16:26.85
How did this come into being
00:16:26.88\00:16:29.15
where you realize there
had to be something more.
00:16:29.18\00:16:32.32
Out of my own brokenness.
00:16:32.35\00:16:34.39
I came out of the world
bitter, angry, drinking,
00:16:34.42\00:16:36.76
doing drugs pornography.
00:16:36.79\00:16:38.59
I had a Ph D. in self-pity.
00:16:38.63\00:16:40.23
No academic credit but
I had a lot of poor me.
00:16:40.26\00:16:43.06
And God brought me out of that,
00:16:43.10\00:16:44.43
I went to,
ended up at a college,
00:16:44.47\00:16:46.40
I ended up becoming a pastor,
00:16:46.43\00:16:48.34
and then I had kids
and adults who were broken,
00:16:48.37\00:16:51.61
and I could move them
into ministry very effectively.
00:16:51.64\00:16:56.68
But I didn't know
how to get them healing,
00:16:56.71\00:16:58.48
get them healing in freedom
and so I started praying,
00:16:58.51\00:17:00.28
and I said, God, how do I bring
healing and freedom to them.
00:17:00.32\00:17:02.82
I know Your cross
makes a difference
00:17:02.85\00:17:04.42
for the forgiveness of our sins.
00:17:04.45\00:17:06.05
How does it deal
with the brokenness?
00:17:06.09\00:17:07.42
And God said, "Let me
start with you first."
00:17:07.46\00:17:09.29
And I said, "No, I just
want to help my church members.
00:17:09.32\00:17:12.09
I don't need to
deal with my past."
00:17:12.13\00:17:14.10
It's too painful to go back
and deal with your own past...
00:17:14.13\00:17:16.50
I thought I went to four
years of pastoral ministry,
00:17:16.53\00:17:18.73
I got it together.
My past is in my past.
00:17:18.77\00:17:20.64
I'm not drinking or
doing drugs and he said,
00:17:20.67\00:17:22.00
"No, there's more."
00:17:22.04\00:17:23.41
So we have a little
bit of arm wrestling match
00:17:23.44\00:17:24.91
and God won.
00:17:24.94\00:17:26.27
And now I hear
people all the time
00:17:26.31\00:17:27.64
tell me my past is in the past.
00:17:27.68\00:17:29.44
So it came out and God
started dealing with me
00:17:29.48\00:17:31.65
to deeper level with some
of those negative thoughts
00:17:31.68\00:17:33.98
that I grew up
with that I'm bad,
00:17:34.02\00:17:35.35
that I'm rejected,
I'm not good enough.
00:17:35.38\00:17:37.59
I have to be on guard.
00:17:37.62\00:17:39.19
And so as He
started dealing with me
00:17:39.22\00:17:41.66
and I started getting
some healing and freedom,
00:17:41.69\00:17:43.32
I was now able
to offer to others
00:17:43.36\00:17:45.33
and I started my
whiteboard in my office
00:17:45.36\00:17:47.53
writing down across.
00:17:47.56\00:17:49.10
And I would write sins
down on the left hand corner
00:17:49.13\00:17:51.10
struggles,
addictions, brokenness,
00:17:51.13\00:17:52.63
whatever the person was sharing
and on the right hand side
00:17:52.67\00:17:55.34
I started writing Jesus' journey
00:17:55.37\00:17:56.74
from Gethsemane to Calvary
but it wasn't all at once.
00:17:56.77\00:17:59.91
I'm kind of a slow learner.
00:17:59.94\00:18:01.34
So it kind of
happened and grew over time
00:18:01.38\00:18:03.01
and all of a
sudden I started noticing
00:18:03.04\00:18:04.75
when I
connected their suffering,
00:18:04.78\00:18:06.65
their struggles,
their addictions,
00:18:06.68\00:18:08.15
their brokenness
00:18:08.18\00:18:09.55
with Jesus' journey
from Gethsemane to Calvary.
00:18:09.58\00:18:11.49
Now He suffered more than that
00:18:11.52\00:18:12.85
but in a short time
period in one session
00:18:12.89\00:18:15.22
I go basically focus
on Gethsemane to Calvary
00:18:15.26\00:18:18.29
where He's
alone, He's abandoned,
00:18:18.33\00:18:20.53
He's betrayed, He's abused
physically verbally, mentally.
00:18:20.56\00:18:23.93
He's
experiencing racial prejudice,
00:18:23.97\00:18:25.63
political
prejudice, religious prejudice.
00:18:25.67\00:18:28.04
And then He's tempted to
numb His pain on the cross,
00:18:28.07\00:18:30.84
with wine vinegar mix.
00:18:30.87\00:18:32.67
And then He cries out,
why have You forsaken Me.
00:18:32.71\00:18:34.28
And I found that an awful lot
of our experiences fit in that.
00:18:34.31\00:18:37.11
And as I connected
people story to Jesus' story
00:18:37.15\00:18:40.12
and started praying that,
turning that into prayers,
00:18:40.15\00:18:42.92
because like you
said, we can't just say,
00:18:42.95\00:18:44.65
okay, I know negative thought,
00:18:44.69\00:18:46.02
I'm not going to
think it anymore.
00:18:46.05\00:18:47.39
We have to pray to
God, thank Him for taking it
00:18:47.42\00:18:50.16
and then receive
His truth in its place.
00:18:50.19\00:18:52.36
Paul says, "Put off and put on."
00:18:52.39\00:18:54.93
So we want to bring
these negative thoughts to God
00:18:54.96\00:18:56.97
and say, "God, these are
negative thoughts I have.
00:18:57.00\00:18:59.10
Thank you that Jesus was
tempted like me in these ways
00:18:59.13\00:19:01.80
and then begin
receiving His truth, His peace,
00:19:01.84\00:19:04.94
His righteousness in its place."
00:19:04.97\00:19:06.61
Yes.
00:19:06.64\00:19:07.98
You know when the
Bible talks about God
00:19:08.01\00:19:13.28
rewards those who
have that faith in Him
00:19:13.31\00:19:17.29
that He is a
rewarder of those with faith.
00:19:17.32\00:19:20.66
I don't think that
we understand often
00:19:20.69\00:19:23.43
our own thought process
00:19:23.46\00:19:25.63
that has been initiated by Satan
00:19:25.66\00:19:28.60
that we actually create
barriers for God's blessings,
00:19:28.63\00:19:33.87
because we
won't except by faith.
00:19:33.90\00:19:37.67
As long as we've got
this negative belief system
00:19:37.71\00:19:41.41
and I think that, you know,
00:19:41.44\00:19:42.84
I also grew up in a very
dysfunctional environment,
00:19:42.88\00:19:47.22
had a great fear of abandonment
00:19:47.25\00:19:50.05
and comes from
my parents divorcing
00:19:50.09\00:19:51.89
when I was four, my father
got custody of me, took me off,
00:19:51.92\00:19:55.76
you know a couple
of thousand miles away
00:19:55.79\00:19:57.89
from where my mother
brand new baby sister were,
00:19:57.93\00:20:00.96
then he left me
with my grandparents.
00:20:01.00\00:20:03.47
He went somewhere else
working and then he was killed
00:20:03.50\00:20:07.57
and so I had, you know,
there was all of this stuff
00:20:07.60\00:20:12.41
that I've always had
this issue of abandonment,
00:20:12.44\00:20:15.61
believing I had to
be perfect to be loved.
00:20:15.64\00:20:18.05
So it was an issue that I felt
00:20:18.08\00:20:20.82
like I was a
pretty balanced person.
00:20:20.85\00:20:26.92
I'm sure my husband
thought I was a balanced person
00:20:26.96\00:20:29.12
when we married,
00:20:29.16\00:20:30.49
but I found that all
of my abandonment issues
00:20:30.53\00:20:34.30
were strong still in my
heart, there was a root there.
00:20:34.33\00:20:37.93
And so it wasn't something I
was going to verbalize to him
00:20:37.97\00:20:41.34
but it caused me a
lot of pain and suffering
00:20:41.37\00:20:43.77
until I got really into
the word of God and God,
00:20:43.81\00:20:47.61
it took some time to take
away that fear of abandonment.
00:20:47.64\00:20:51.38
But why is it?
00:20:51.41\00:20:54.22
Why do you think
it's so important
00:20:54.25\00:20:57.15
that I wished
I'd known then that,
00:20:57.19\00:21:01.16
you know, Christ felt abandoned,
00:21:01.19\00:21:02.52
He experienced
that abandonment He had.
00:21:02.56\00:21:06.03
Everybody that was
closest to Him fled
00:21:06.06\00:21:09.16
and even Peter was,
00:21:09.20\00:21:11.13
was denying Him and
cursing with his denial.
00:21:11.17\00:21:14.64
He felt abandoned by the Father.
00:21:14.67\00:21:16.57
And I think that
would have helped
00:21:16.60\00:21:18.94
if I had known that earlier,
00:21:18.97\00:21:20.34
but why do you believe
that helps so much, Paul.
00:21:20.38\00:21:23.31
Why does it help for
people to see that Christ
00:21:23.35\00:21:27.75
their high priest, their
savior can identify with them?
00:21:27.78\00:21:31.82
What is that
emotional connection
00:21:31.85\00:21:34.59
or what makes it
click for people?
00:21:34.62\00:21:37.39
I would say the
most important thing
00:21:37.43\00:21:38.79
is a lot of people know
00:21:38.83\00:21:41.20
that other people have
gone through experiences
00:21:41.23\00:21:43.30
like them, like Diana.
00:21:43.33\00:21:44.67
If you asked Diana today,
00:21:44.70\00:21:46.03
does she know other
people have been abused?
00:21:46.07\00:21:47.94
She would say yes.
00:21:47.97\00:21:49.30
If somebody asked you,
"Do you know other people
00:21:49.34\00:21:50.67
have been
abandoned in different,
00:21:50.71\00:21:52.04
maybe not the same
way but in different ways.
00:21:52.07\00:21:53.41
Yes. Yes.
00:21:53.44\00:21:54.78
But something in our heart goes
00:21:54.81\00:21:56.18
"Ah, now I know
I'm really not alone.
00:21:56.21\00:21:58.01
I think the number one response
00:21:58.05\00:21:59.51
to seeing a slide
where's Jesus' suffering.
00:21:59.55\00:22:01.82
We have a picture
of Jesus on the cross
00:22:01.85\00:22:03.59
and then we start going
through Him being alone,
00:22:03.62\00:22:05.65
abandoned,
betrayed, abused, rejected.
00:22:05.69\00:22:08.12
All of a sudden
the Holy Spirit's
00:22:08.16\00:22:09.56
able to speak to
the heart and say,
00:22:09.59\00:22:10.93
"You are not alone.
00:22:10.96\00:22:12.29
You have someone
that understands."
00:22:12.33\00:22:14.06
And when that happens,
00:22:14.10\00:22:15.76
there's something in them
psychologically, emotionally,
00:22:15.80\00:22:18.00
mentally every one says it,
00:22:18.03\00:22:19.37
there's something in
their heart that says,
00:22:19.40\00:22:21.60
"I can relax.
00:22:21.64\00:22:23.77
They understand."
00:22:23.81\00:22:25.14
I'm in the presence of somebody
00:22:25.17\00:22:26.51
who knows what
I've gone through.
00:22:26.54\00:22:27.88
I don't have to be on guard.
00:22:27.91\00:22:30.05
I can be relaxed more
00:22:30.08\00:22:31.88
and I begin receiving
with that relationship with him
00:22:31.91\00:22:35.02
and what that does
is it creates intimacy
00:22:35.05\00:22:37.29
with a more
stronger relationship.
00:22:37.32\00:22:40.02
It's like the woman at the well.
00:22:40.06\00:22:43.09
Don't you know that
when Jesus is looking her
00:22:43.12\00:22:45.53
in the eyes and saying,
00:22:45.56\00:22:47.10
"If only you
knew the gift of God."
00:22:47.13\00:22:49.10
And who it was
that's offering you a drink.
00:22:49.13\00:22:51.13
He sat there and told
her everything about it.
00:22:51.17\00:22:53.97
She probably felt understood
00:22:54.00\00:22:56.60
for the first time in
her life, and there is power.
00:22:56.64\00:22:59.67
We all want to
be understood. Yeah.
00:22:59.71\00:23:02.71
You know and
there's very few people,
00:23:02.74\00:23:05.11
even you, people can
be married for 50 years
00:23:05.15\00:23:07.68
and somebody would not feel
00:23:07.72\00:23:09.15
maybe that their
spouse truly understood them
00:23:09.18\00:23:11.49
but God knows.
00:23:11.52\00:23:13.19
So tell us what
happened with Diana?
00:23:13.22\00:23:18.03
Well, Diana as we
were praying every day
00:23:18.06\00:23:20.90
while I was doing
a series of meetings,
00:23:20.93\00:23:22.83
and so she got prayer,
00:23:22.86\00:23:24.20
so we had to deal
with a lot of hard work,
00:23:24.23\00:23:25.57
there were a lot of fears,
there was negative thoughts,
00:23:25.60\00:23:27.10
there was issues of forgiveness.
00:23:27.14\00:23:28.47
I mean, this
isn't an easy process.
00:23:28.50\00:23:31.11
But as we kept connecting
her story to Jesus story,
00:23:31.14\00:23:34.08
she was able to
restart receiving healing.
00:23:34.11\00:23:37.15
And I think the fourth
day in a row I was there,
00:23:37.18\00:23:39.61
she came back and she said
for the first time in years
00:23:39.65\00:23:42.42
I've been able
to get some sleep.
00:23:42.45\00:23:43.79
Praise God.
00:23:43.82\00:23:45.15
Because when she goes to
sleep, guess what happens?
00:23:45.19\00:23:46.52
Her body is still on
guard, it's still wired.
00:23:46.55\00:23:49.62
So if my mind's
going, going, going
00:23:49.66\00:23:51.13
and I have to be on
guard, I have to be in control,
00:23:51.16\00:23:53.53
I have to make
sure I'm self safe
00:23:53.56\00:23:55.16
not to be
controlling over others,
00:23:55.20\00:23:57.10
but to protect myself.
00:23:57.13\00:23:58.80
I can lay down a bit
00:23:58.83\00:24:00.17
but does that mean my
body is ready to rest?
00:24:00.20\00:24:02.50
No, my body system is going
zing, zing, zing, zing, zing.
00:24:02.54\00:24:05.87
And so she was able to
start getting some sleep,
00:24:05.91\00:24:08.11
so she noticed that.
00:24:08.14\00:24:09.78
And then she shared a time later
00:24:09.81\00:24:13.01
where there was a police
story that hit the national news
00:24:13.05\00:24:15.65
because somebody
in their neighborhood
00:24:15.68\00:24:17.02
had drugs and were selling
00:24:17.05\00:24:18.45
and they busted him
at two in the morning.
00:24:18.49\00:24:20.09
So she hears this
foghorn and she goes
00:24:20.12\00:24:22.72
and instead of being
going into panic mode
00:24:22.76\00:24:24.46
she goes, oh, it's there,
00:24:24.49\00:24:25.83
so she goes out to
find out what happened.
00:24:25.86\00:24:27.20
The next day people
are interviewing people,
00:24:27.23\00:24:28.76
they ask people in neighborhood
if they would be interviewed.
00:24:28.80\00:24:31.13
They all said no.
00:24:31.17\00:24:32.50
She ended up saying
yes without thinking
00:24:32.53\00:24:33.87
and then said, "Wait
a minute I can't do it.
00:24:33.90\00:24:35.24
I have panic attacks."
00:24:35.27\00:24:36.60
But then she said,
"No, I can pray through it."
00:24:36.64\00:24:38.11
And then she ended
up being interviewed
00:24:38.14\00:24:39.47
and it was a national interview.
00:24:39.51\00:24:43.04
And she was actually excited
00:24:43.08\00:24:44.48
that she was able to pray
through those negative thoughts
00:24:44.51\00:24:46.78
so the devil
didn't stop attacking her
00:24:46.82\00:24:48.35
but they didn't stick.
00:24:48.38\00:24:50.02
She was able to take
those thought she was,
00:24:50.05\00:24:52.32
she knew what the
weapons of her warfare were,
00:24:52.35\00:24:54.82
she was exploring them
00:24:54.86\00:24:56.19
and she could
take the thoughts...
00:24:56.22\00:24:57.56
And that's,
that's a critical verse
00:24:57.59\00:24:58.93
to section to our ministry
00:24:58.96\00:25:00.56
that we're not trying to
do it on our own strength.
00:25:00.60\00:25:03.10
We're taking
those thoughts to Jesus
00:25:03.13\00:25:04.57
and trusting in power.
00:25:04.60\00:25:05.93
And later on
about nine months later,
00:25:05.97\00:25:07.64
somebody was trying to
kill himself drunk driving
00:25:07.67\00:25:10.11
and ran into her
husband and hit him
00:25:10.14\00:25:12.54
and so he wasn't able to work
because he lived but the brain,
00:25:12.57\00:25:17.61
his brain was hit hard.
00:25:17.65\00:25:18.98
And so during that was she
concerned about her spouse?
00:25:19.01\00:25:21.75
Absolutely.
00:25:21.78\00:25:23.65
But she didn't
have any panic attacks.
00:25:23.69\00:25:25.02
Now we wouldn't deliberately
set up a test like that.
00:25:25.05\00:25:27.36
No.
00:25:27.39\00:25:28.72
But Jesus says, "When
the son sets you free,
00:25:28.76\00:25:30.33
you're free indeed."
00:25:30.36\00:25:31.69
So we're not saying she never
got any more negative thoughts.
00:25:31.73\00:25:33.80
What we're saying is
when the devil hit her,
00:25:33.83\00:25:35.96
she recognized the source.
00:25:36.00\00:25:37.70
She took it to God
00:25:37.73\00:25:39.07
and it didn't become
part of her identity.
00:25:39.10\00:25:40.47
So she was able to pray
through that and like I said,
00:25:40.50\00:25:42.57
she had a small group.
00:25:42.60\00:25:43.94
She moved into ministry
00:25:43.97\00:25:45.31
in the church being very active.
00:25:45.34\00:25:46.68
See now that's a part I
don't want to just slide past.
00:25:46.71\00:25:49.88
She moved into ministry
because that's the beauty
00:25:49.91\00:25:54.42
of Straight 2 the
Heart Ministries and that's
00:25:54.45\00:25:56.72
straight2theheartministries
.com.
00:25:56.75\00:26:00.79
That healing comes
and then people you,
00:26:00.82\00:26:06.59
you focus on moving
people into ministry.
00:26:06.63\00:26:10.27
We're all called to
fulfill the great commission.
00:26:10.30\00:26:13.13
We're all part of the body.
00:26:13.17\00:26:14.87
But I think that, you
know, you often heard it said,
00:26:14.90\00:26:19.64
I say it often that, we
teach to learn or excuse me
00:26:19.67\00:26:23.95
we, we learn to
teach, we teach to learn.
00:26:23.98\00:26:27.92
And it's one thing as
you are receiving healing,
00:26:27.95\00:26:32.49
I think that God
intents for you to turn around
00:26:32.52\00:26:35.22
and as He said that
He's the God of all comfort
00:26:35.26\00:26:37.66
who, who comforts you
00:26:37.69\00:26:39.89
so that you can go
out and comfort others
00:26:39.93\00:26:41.46
with the same comfort
that you've received from Him.
00:26:41.50\00:26:43.93
I think that as
people receive healing
00:26:43.97\00:26:47.30
then go and say, "Hey,
I can show you the way.
00:26:47.34\00:26:49.84
I can show you the gospel."
00:26:49.87\00:26:51.84
This is where even more
complete healing comes in.
00:26:51.87\00:26:55.64
I think it's
exciting what you're doing.
00:26:55.68\00:26:57.88
It is, and like you
mentioned the woman at the well,
00:26:57.91\00:26:59.91
Jesus speaks into her
pattern of brokenness.
00:26:59.95\00:27:01.72
Yes.
00:27:01.75\00:27:03.08
It wasn't comfortable for
her and she tried to avoid it,
00:27:03.12\00:27:04.82
but she hung in there with Him.
00:27:04.85\00:27:06.19
He speaks into her
pattern of brokenness
00:27:06.22\00:27:07.79
and what does she do?
00:27:07.82\00:27:09.16
She leaves her water pot,
00:27:09.19\00:27:10.53
you don't leave your water
pot anywhere in the Middle East
00:27:10.56\00:27:12.79
in those days or today.
00:27:12.83\00:27:14.16
And she goes in
00:27:14.20\00:27:15.53
and she witnesses to whole town.
00:27:15.56\00:27:16.90
So to me I want God to
speak into our brokenness,
00:27:16.93\00:27:19.50
bring His healing and freedom.
00:27:19.53\00:27:20.87
And like you said,
move people into ministry,
00:27:20.90\00:27:22.74
but it's not like
we're telling them
00:27:22.77\00:27:24.11
they have to, they want to,
00:27:24.14\00:27:25.67
they start doing it
naturally from the inside out.
00:27:25.71\00:27:28.28
Well, I cannot believe
how fast our time's gone.
00:27:28.31\00:27:31.51
Talking with you,
it always goes fast.
00:27:31.55\00:27:33.35
I just wanted to say once again
00:27:33.38\00:27:35.42
that Paul's book is called
The Hidden Half of the Gospel,
00:27:35.45\00:27:40.32
and what is the
website for this?
00:27:40.36\00:27:43.53
www.hiddenhalf.org.
00:27:43.56\00:27:46.36
Hiddenhalf.org.
00:27:46.39\00:27:48.26
And it's the
Hidden Half of the Gospel,
00:27:48.30\00:27:49.80
how His
suffering can heal yours.
00:27:49.83\00:27:51.37
All right.
00:27:51.40\00:27:52.73
Hiddenhalf.org
00:27:52.77\00:27:54.80
is where you go
to get this book.
00:27:54.84\00:27:57.97
My husband, I
bought this for my husband.
00:27:58.01\00:28:01.58
I bought one for everyone
in the pastoral department
00:28:01.61\00:28:04.15
'cause it is such
an excellent book.
00:28:04.18\00:28:06.45
Paul, thank you so
much for being with us,
00:28:06.48\00:28:08.88
and you want to be
sure and tune in next week
00:28:08.92\00:28:12.02
because Paul's going to return,
and we will cover some more
00:28:12.05\00:28:16.36
about the Hidden
Half of the Gospel.
00:28:16.39\00:28:18.59
Thanks for joining us.
00:28:18.63\00:28:19.96