Part of the
mission of Jesus Christ
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was to heal the broken hearted
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and he has passed
that mission on to us.
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Join us today on
Issues and Answers
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so that you can learn
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how to become a
skilful comforter.
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Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn
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and welcome again
to Issues and Answers.
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I'm just impressed
to start this program
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by reading something
Paul wrote to the Corinthians
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in 2 Corinthians 1:3 and 4,
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he says, "Blessed be the God
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and Father of our
Lord Jesus Christ,
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the Father of mercies
and God of all comfort,
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who comforts us in
all our tribulation,
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that we may be able to comfort
those who are in any trouble,
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with the comfort
with which we ourselves
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have received from God."
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And today we
have returning with us
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for the fourth time
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author and grief
counselor Karen Nicola.
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And Karen is, has a ministry
called Comfort for the Day.
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And, Karen, thank you
so much for coming back.
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I'm so happy to be here.
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We are just...
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We don't want to let you go.
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I know this is
our last one with you
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and we're so glad
that you're here though.
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Being a skilful
comforter is something that
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this is a teaching our church,
every church the world needs,
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because so often especially
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if someone is
going through bereavement
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where they have
lost a loved one people,
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you know, remember
that Art Linkletter show
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"Kids Say the Darndest Things."
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People say the darndest things
if that's okay for me to say,
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don't write me now but,
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but people can say some very...
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and they don't mean to
but they'll say something
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that's very
insensitive and very painful.
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Yeah.
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So and the other thing that
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I'm thinking off the
top of my head is that
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we also often...
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If there's a funeral
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we're good at that first
month of offering comfort
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and then life goes on
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and we forget about those
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who are going
through bereavement.
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So tell us today,
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how to be a skilful comforter.
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While becoming a
skilful comforter
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is not an easy process.
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It's one that
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does take a little
bit of acknowledging.
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Maybe I could improve and...
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I think we can all say that.
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So to improve of how we interact
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with people in
their loss, in their grief
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and this would be
for any of their losses,
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I mean someone
who has, you know,
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has been diagnosed
with a terminal illness
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and they're going
to lose their own life
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or someone who is
going through a divorce,
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someone whose pet has, has died.
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To genuinely comfort
them is not fixing them.
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And we're very good
at stepping in and fixing
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that's why the first weeks
or the first months when we,
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when we run and we
bring the casseroles
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and we bring the food
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or you know we provide maybe
a little bit of transportation
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for a while or
something like that.
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We are in this doing mode
and we think we're fixing.
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But as we've talked
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these three previous
episodes that this is,
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this is not something that ends,
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the day of the
funeral, at the memorial,
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at the burial.
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But this is
something that's ongoing.
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So how can we
become skilful comforters
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to take it
through the ongoing time
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and that's why I
would like to explore.
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But let's kind of
start with the things we say.
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You've got a list there
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some of the
things there in that bar,
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on the side bar there,
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some of those
things that we say.
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What are some of those things
that we say that just are...
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They're in a better place.
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Yeah.
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Get over it, move on.
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It was God's will.
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It was for the best.
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Boy, this is very
light writing here,
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it's right or not.
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You just need what?
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To get over it,
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need to move on, need to smile.
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You need to move on.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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It just take its
time you need to,
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to stop living in the past.
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Oh, how many times
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we've heard that
look on the bright side,
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just keeps smiling,
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I'm praying for
you then you don't.
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That one I am
very adamant about,
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you know, we will say,
oh, I'm praying for you.
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I'm praying for you.
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Here's something
that's interesting.
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Is there anything I can do?
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People are so, you know,
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if somebody asks me
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if they can do something for me.
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I always say, no.
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I mean, it's...
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Now people who just
show up with something
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or do something
that's different, you know.
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These are some good
things that we need to,
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to watch out for saying...
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We need to stop saying.
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At least you have
other children would be
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probably the most painful.
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Yeah.
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Oh, I know how you feel.
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I know how you feel is,
is not a true statement.
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Even if a, another woman,
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my exact same age at
28 when I lost my son,
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she would be the same.
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We could not know
how each other feels
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because we had
different relationships,
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we had different
issues with our children
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and our losses in their death.
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We might have a shared
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experience of
our feeling my loss.
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But I can't say,
I know how you feel.
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They can't say that.
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And some people are,
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are very put off
and understandably
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so by just the blanket comment.
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I'm so sorry.
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Soon as I would
tell you Shelley,
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"Oh, I'm so sorry."
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Then that puts you in a position
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to try to console me.
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So that is a
really counterproductive
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and one of the ways that
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I help guide
people through that is,
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the natural thing
is to say we are sorry,
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we do feel badly for them.
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So if we, if the, "I'm so sorry"
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just naturally
comes out of our mouth,
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then let's finish the sentence.
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"I am so sorry that you
are living with this pain.
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I am so sorry that
you are experiencing this.
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I'm so sorry that
your mother passed away."
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We finished the sentence
and we don't leave it with,
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"Oh, I'm so sorry,"
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because now the grieving person
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may feel some need
to try to console us
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and then what do
they say, "Oh, it's okay."
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None of it's okay,
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it's not okay
that someone is dying.
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Yeah, it's
interesting that you say that
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because there is
someone in my close circle
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who is constantly saying,
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I'm sorry if you
mention something
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and then I feel, oh,
I've made them uneasy
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and I do naturally,
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and then this is over
just day to day matters
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so I do understand
that, that's interesting.
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So if the grieving
person is then left to feel like
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they've made
someone else feel uneasy.
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You know that we...
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So we don't need
to say that anymore.
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We don't need to
say, "I'm sorry."
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When you say, "I'm so sorry."
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Remember that's the
beginning of the sentence,
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it's not the end.
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And then finish it.
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Or replace the, "I'm so sorry"
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as I really care
or make a statement.
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This must hurt badly for you.
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Your pain matters to
me, I'm here for you.
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If you are. Yes.
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Oh, yes, yes, yes.
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Don't say that if you're not.
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Just like saying
that you pray for someone
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if you're not going to and just,
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you know,
today's modern technology
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and all the
media that's out there
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and social media and on Facebook
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and someone will,
will let the world know
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that a loved one has passed away
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in their family system
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and you'll see, "I'm so sorry."
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You now see
prayers, prayers, prayers,
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prayers or I'm praying.
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And then how many of us
will leave that Facebook post
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and really fall to
our knees and pray.
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That's something that Lord
taught me a long time ago is
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if you say, "I will pray."
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Do it either right, I
mean do it right then,
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because you can get.
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I mean that is
like making a promise.
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It's a lie if
you don't pray so...
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And my memory isn't good
enough to remember any time
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even five minutes
later that I said,
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"I would pray for someone."
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So whether I get
an e-mail message
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or a Facebook message,
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I will pray in that
response right then.
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I will pray on Facebook,
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in the responded message
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and or I pray, write
in my email and hit send.
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So they've seen and
heard my prayer for them.
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They know
they've been prayed for
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and I know I've prayed for them.
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That's wonderful.
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Because I want to
be a woman of my word
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and not say it
and then don't do it.
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Sometimes, I think
that we feel like, you know,
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some people
aren't easy around people
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who are grieving
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because they
don't know what to say.
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And I often feel like saying
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as little as
possible is the best
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if you can get them
to talking and listen,
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it's more important
than what you can say,
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because you're
at a loss for words,
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you don't know what
that person's experience is.
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And you really, you know,
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you might say I
know what you're feeling
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but you don't.
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The more honest
thing to say is that
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I don't know
what you're feeling.
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Yeah.
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Could you tell me?
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Ask them questions
that, that you feel that,
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that they may be ready for,
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and if they're not ready for it,
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you can say, "You know,
you don't have to say anything,
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I just wanted to be with you.
00:10:19.58\00:10:21.48
Do you mind if I hold you?"
00:10:21.52\00:10:23.62
You put your arm around them.
00:10:23.65\00:10:25.22
It's really important
to ask for permission.
00:10:25.25\00:10:31.29
May I pray with you?
00:10:31.33\00:10:33.09
Some people will say,
00:10:33.13\00:10:34.46
"No, I'm not ready
to talk to God yet."
00:10:34.50\00:10:37.73
"May I give you a hug?"
00:10:37.77\00:10:40.44
Some people aren't huggers
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and they don't want that touch.
00:10:42.27\00:10:45.24
They don't want
to be taken into that
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brink of feeling
tender because...
00:10:47.38\00:10:50.38
And some people may be
huggers but at that moment,
00:10:50.41\00:10:54.05
it's like it would
be too much for them.
00:10:54.08\00:10:57.55
So to be a skilful comforter
is to know what not to say
00:10:57.59\00:11:00.92
and take those out of our
vocabulary are trite comments.
00:11:00.96\00:11:04.89
To be a skilful
comforter means to be honest.
00:11:04.93\00:11:07.50
And to be able to say,
00:11:07.53\00:11:09.26
"I don't have an idea
what you're going through.
00:11:09.30\00:11:12.13
I don't know at all.
00:11:12.17\00:11:13.64
I'd like to know
so I can understand,
00:11:13.67\00:11:15.30
could you tell me."
00:11:15.34\00:11:17.11
Being the skilful comforter
means I asked for permission.
00:11:17.14\00:11:20.94
One of them might be
to say, "Would it be okay,
00:11:20.98\00:11:23.38
if I came over and
brought you dinner tonight."
00:11:23.41\00:11:26.95
Instead of just dropping
by with a casserole dish
00:11:26.98\00:11:29.18
and leaving.
00:11:29.22\00:11:30.55
But bring them
dinner and eat with them
00:11:30.59\00:11:33.05
and let them know that.
00:11:33.09\00:11:35.19
Yeah, pain is uncomfortable
00:11:35.22\00:11:37.33
but you're not going to let that
00:11:37.36\00:11:38.73
uncomfortableness of
their pain push you away.
00:11:38.76\00:11:42.56
See personally and I don't
know if everyone is like this.
00:11:42.60\00:11:47.20
I am...
00:11:47.24\00:11:48.97
And I'm speaking I don't
mean to say, I, I, I but it's,
00:11:49.00\00:11:52.71
we can only speak
from our own experience.
00:11:52.74\00:11:55.41
I do not care for
people to just pop in.
00:11:55.44\00:12:00.02
And I think when you're
grieving even more so, that,
00:12:00.05\00:12:04.19
you know, and
people have a tendency
00:12:04.22\00:12:05.72
to sometimes do that.
00:12:05.75\00:12:07.79
But it's something that
I think asking permission.
00:12:07.82\00:12:12.89
Perhaps you can say,
"I've made you a casserole.
00:12:12.93\00:12:17.57
I would love to drop it by
would 5 o'clock be convenient
00:12:17.60\00:12:21.84
or something like this..."
00:12:21.87\00:12:23.20
because if you ask me if
you can make me something,
00:12:23.24\00:12:25.64
I'll probably say no,
00:12:25.67\00:12:27.01
because I don't want
to be a bother to you.
00:12:27.04\00:12:28.38
Right, right.
00:12:28.41\00:12:29.74
But if you as if you tell me
00:12:29.78\00:12:31.11
you've already made me something
00:12:31.15\00:12:33.08
and you want to bring it by,
00:12:33.11\00:12:35.18
then you're much
more open to that
00:12:35.22\00:12:37.79
but you give that
person the opportunity
00:12:37.82\00:12:39.95
to collect
themselves before you go by.
00:12:39.99\00:12:42.42
And here's the thing
about offering these kindnesses,
00:12:42.46\00:12:46.49
these
courtesies, these interests.
00:12:46.53\00:12:49.56
They need to be ongoing.
00:12:49.60\00:12:52.43
Oh, that's a tough part...
00:12:52.47\00:12:53.80
Month two, three, six, ten,
00:12:53.84\00:12:56.91
for us the intensity of the pain
00:12:56.94\00:12:59.91
of Dawson's absence,
our son, his absence,
00:12:59.94\00:13:04.05
that intensity came
00:13:04.08\00:13:06.35
six and seven months
later after his death.
00:13:06.38\00:13:10.99
And by that time
where is everybody else.
00:13:11.02\00:13:14.26
They're all back
to life, you know,
00:13:14.29\00:13:16.89
and we're now in this
pain all by ourselves.
00:13:16.93\00:13:21.53
And so being aware that
someone's pain about the loss
00:13:21.56\00:13:27.30
and the death of a loved one
will intensify as time goes on,
00:13:27.34\00:13:32.34
will help us as comforters.
00:13:32.37\00:13:34.34
Put it on the calendar.
00:13:34.38\00:13:35.94
Let's say, someone
die today April 12,
00:13:35.98\00:13:39.05
pop out six or
seven months later
00:13:39.08\00:13:40.75
and put it on our calendar
00:13:40.78\00:13:42.12
and say check in with Karen
and see how she's doing now.
00:13:42.15\00:13:46.45
That's good.
00:13:46.49\00:13:47.82
And put it on the calendar
00:13:47.86\00:13:49.72
when we might know of
00:13:49.76\00:13:51.89
when that
person's death might be
00:13:51.93\00:13:55.10
or when their
wedding anniversary was
00:13:55.13\00:13:57.17
or when their birthday was
00:13:57.20\00:13:58.93
and make it a point to
check in on that day with them.
00:13:58.97\00:14:02.20
Especially when it's a first.
00:14:02.24\00:14:04.17
Oh, especially in the first
00:14:04.21\00:14:06.27
but I'll tell
you 30 years later.
00:14:06.31\00:14:07.88
Really...
00:14:07.91\00:14:09.24
Oh, my, if someone
even remembers our son,
00:14:09.28\00:14:14.55
he's just such a treasure to me,
00:14:14.58\00:14:16.58
such a treasure.
00:14:16.62\00:14:17.95
What occurs to me is that
00:14:17.99\00:14:21.79
we live in such an
insanely busy world.
00:14:21.82\00:14:26.56
Everything is so busy.
00:14:26.59\00:14:28.43
If you are a
member of a large church,
00:14:28.46\00:14:31.37
it is so easy,
00:14:31.40\00:14:33.13
even here say we
have under 200 members
00:14:33.17\00:14:36.91
but we have so much...
00:14:36.94\00:14:42.68
There are so many
tragedies it seems.
00:14:42.71\00:14:44.95
It just seems like
00:14:44.98\00:14:46.31
Satan is increasing
his attack on his people.
00:14:46.35\00:14:49.12
We have deaths,
00:14:49.15\00:14:50.49
we have people
who are in, you know,
00:14:50.52\00:14:52.65
being diagnosed
with terminal illnesses.
00:14:52.69\00:14:55.32
There's, there's so much pain
00:14:55.36\00:14:58.56
that one person unless
00:14:58.59\00:15:01.73
that was their
full time ministry
00:15:01.76\00:15:03.10
and that's all they did.
00:15:03.13\00:15:04.83
It's difficult to keep
up and we are probably all,
00:15:04.87\00:15:08.84
I will include myself in this,
00:15:08.87\00:15:10.31
we are all guilty of
being very supportive
00:15:10.34\00:15:14.18
in the initial stages
00:15:14.21\00:15:16.58
and perhaps then as
we see them inquiring,
00:15:16.61\00:15:19.91
"How are you doing?"
00:15:19.95\00:15:21.28
But as far as intentional
act that's not always so.
00:15:21.32\00:15:24.29
It occurred to me that
maybe this is something
00:15:24.32\00:15:26.82
that churches should
start little committees
00:15:26.86\00:15:30.09
where you assign a person
00:15:30.13\00:15:32.93
to you be their
comforter for the year.
00:15:32.96\00:15:36.43
Will you know
'cause that's something
00:15:36.46\00:15:38.23
that we sometimes think,
00:15:38.27\00:15:39.80
"Oh, well, you know,
they're well loved at church,
00:15:39.83\00:15:42.77
there is
probably plenty of people
00:15:42.80\00:15:44.14
checking in on them
sending cards or whatever."
00:15:44.17\00:15:46.47
And because there are so many,
00:15:46.51\00:15:48.51
I mean, does that sound stupid.
00:15:48.54\00:15:49.98
No, Shelley, I am like
grinning from ear to ear
00:15:50.01\00:15:52.25
because this is
what I do on Sabbath.
00:15:52.28\00:15:56.02
I visit churches
and I help them develop
00:15:56.05\00:15:59.52
a grief ministry's team.
00:15:59.55\00:16:01.92
I help them become
skilful comforters.
00:16:01.96\00:16:04.66
I let them know that
it is not the pastor's job
00:16:04.69\00:16:08.00
to carry the
attention that the bereaved need
00:16:08.03\00:16:12.53
for the duration they need it.
00:16:12.57\00:16:14.00
The pastor's job as
the first responder,
00:16:14.04\00:16:16.81
but then he needs to
pass it on to the next team
00:16:16.84\00:16:20.98
that's going to be
the long term caregivers
00:16:21.01\00:16:23.65
for this bereaved family this,
00:16:23.68\00:16:27.88
you know,
whether it's the cancer,
00:16:27.92\00:16:29.35
whether it's losses through,
00:16:29.38\00:16:30.72
through whatever
we've talked about already
00:16:30.75\00:16:32.42
that this grief ministry team
00:16:32.45\00:16:35.49
then knows how to
assign who's going to do what,
00:16:35.52\00:16:39.39
so no one gets
lost through the cracks.
00:16:39.43\00:16:42.86
And so yes, this
I'm just going, yay,
00:16:42.90\00:16:45.83
this is why I'm here.
00:16:45.87\00:16:47.44
This is what God
has called me to do to,
00:16:47.47\00:16:50.44
to raise up
renowned skilful comforters
00:16:50.47\00:16:54.71
because that's the
mission of Isaiah 61.
00:16:54.74\00:16:58.11
"To heal the broken hearted
00:16:58.15\00:16:59.48
and comfort those who
mourn in all of Zion."
00:16:59.51\00:17:03.42
Well, all of Zion is all
of the world, God's family.
00:17:03.45\00:17:06.82
And we're not good at this.
00:17:06.86\00:17:09.52
We have not followed
Jesus' mission in this
00:17:09.56\00:17:15.56
and he came for this purpose
00:17:15.60\00:17:17.90
and we do everything else,
00:17:17.93\00:17:19.97
and we've omitted this.
00:17:20.00\00:17:21.67
And I think primarily
00:17:21.70\00:17:23.04
because it's
associated with pain.
00:17:23.07\00:17:25.61
And we're
uncomfortable with pain.
00:17:25.64\00:17:27.84
And when pain comes our way,
00:17:27.88\00:17:30.05
it's fight or
flight and then to,
00:17:30.08\00:17:33.72
then to say, I'm
going to willingly choose
00:17:33.75\00:17:36.55
to be in someone
else's space of pain.
00:17:36.58\00:17:39.32
That's really unnatural for us,
00:17:39.35\00:17:42.09
but it's not a
natural for the kingdom.
00:17:42.12\00:17:44.49
That's what Jesus came
to do was to be in our pain.
00:17:44.53\00:17:47.60
You shared an experience
that you had with someone
00:17:47.63\00:17:52.57
or I should say
lack of experience,
00:17:52.60\00:17:54.07
no it wasn't experience
00:17:54.10\00:17:55.57
when someone saw you coming down
00:17:55.60\00:17:58.37
the hallway at your
church after Dawson died
00:17:58.41\00:18:03.08
and they looked up
and recognized it was you.
00:18:03.11\00:18:06.95
They knew your situation
00:18:06.98\00:18:08.62
and they were so
uncomfortable they turned around
00:18:08.65\00:18:12.19
and walked in the
other direction rather than
00:18:12.22\00:18:14.92
stepping over that threshold
into your pain and grief.
00:18:14.96\00:18:18.79
How did that make you feel?
00:18:18.83\00:18:21.80
It was disappointing,
very disappointing,
00:18:21.83\00:18:25.93
I felt like I had a
big banner on me that said,
00:18:25.97\00:18:30.37
"Don't get close, she hurts."
00:18:30.41\00:18:34.01
And I knew intellectually
that it was just more than
00:18:34.04\00:18:39.11
that person knew how to handle
00:18:39.15\00:18:41.65
and so I gave
grace to that person,
00:18:41.68\00:18:45.05
but I was very aware
00:18:45.09\00:18:46.65
that it could this
happen to someone else
00:18:46.69\00:18:48.72
who didn't have a
strong faith relationship,
00:18:48.76\00:18:51.79
a good footing in their trust
00:18:51.83\00:18:54.46
that God was with
them in their pain,
00:18:54.50\00:18:56.43
to have people
isolate them in their pain,
00:18:56.46\00:18:58.73
to leave them alone
in their pain would,
00:18:58.77\00:19:01.37
would be just a really easy way
00:19:01.40\00:19:03.84
for them to walk out
the back door of the church.
00:19:03.87\00:19:07.08
And, and that
00:19:07.11\00:19:08.71
just is a
heartbreaking thought to me.
00:19:08.74\00:19:11.61
And it's one
that drives what I do
00:19:11.65\00:19:13.52
and one that brings
me such satisfaction
00:19:13.55\00:19:15.48
when I, I visit a
church congregation
00:19:15.52\00:19:17.75
and we go through a two
and a half hour workshop
00:19:17.79\00:19:20.26
and they began to
open up their awareness
00:19:20.29\00:19:23.76
that they've already been given
the skills to comfort people,
00:19:23.79\00:19:27.60
and they just didn't
know how to organize it,
00:19:27.63\00:19:30.77
and that they...
00:19:30.80\00:19:32.13
In ten minutes by
the end of the workshop
00:19:32.17\00:19:34.57
they can draft a
comfort care plan
00:19:34.60\00:19:38.41
for a scenario that I give them
00:19:38.44\00:19:40.54
with just the small table of six
00:19:40.58\00:19:42.84
that they're sitting with.
00:19:42.88\00:19:44.21
It is so
fantastic to watch and see.
00:19:44.25\00:19:47.02
You know I want to
encourage you first at home.
00:19:47.05\00:19:50.25
Karen's book it's is called,
00:19:50.29\00:19:53.99
Comfort for the Day: Living
Through the Seasons of Grief,
00:19:54.02\00:19:59.06
and this is a journal,
00:19:59.09\00:20:00.43
actually I'm going
to take my copy home
00:20:00.46\00:20:03.47
and I'm going to journal
00:20:03.50\00:20:04.83
because I'm revisiting some pain
00:20:04.87\00:20:08.10
in my sister's death that
00:20:08.14\00:20:10.41
I realize I haven't
really worked through
00:20:10.44\00:20:14.04
the grieving
process on my sister
00:20:14.08\00:20:15.81
so I'm going to do this.
00:20:15.84\00:20:18.15
Thank you so much.
00:20:18.18\00:20:19.51
But I want to
encourage you to do something
00:20:19.55\00:20:23.22
and you at home to do something.
00:20:23.25\00:20:25.65
I believe with all my heart
00:20:25.69\00:20:29.06
this could be a
tool for evangelism.
00:20:29.09\00:20:33.63
There are people
grieving not just in our church,
00:20:33.66\00:20:37.63
but outside our church
that if churches would hold
00:20:37.67\00:20:42.77
maybe using some
of your material,
00:20:42.80\00:20:44.67
some of you've got
videos available and things,
00:20:44.71\00:20:48.61
but if you would
hold a grief seminar,
00:20:48.64\00:20:52.51
you can have so many people
00:20:52.55\00:20:54.68
that may not come
for a vegetarian meal
00:20:54.72\00:20:58.02
or something like that,
00:20:58.05\00:20:59.39
but there are so many
people who need to be comforted,
00:20:59.42\00:21:04.16
who do not even know the Lord,
00:21:04.19\00:21:06.53
that if you're
holding a grief seminar
00:21:06.56\00:21:09.60
and you can get people into
the church for this seminar,
00:21:09.63\00:21:14.60
if you become
skilful at being a comforter,
00:21:14.64\00:21:18.47
you're opening doors to
bring people into your church.
00:21:18.51\00:21:23.55
Now you don't want to start
00:21:23.58\00:21:24.91
giving them the 28
fundamental beliefs
00:21:24.95\00:21:26.82
when they come
for grief seminar.
00:21:26.85\00:21:28.95
But it is
something that I believe.
00:21:28.98\00:21:31.92
I hope that your ministry
will take off in that direction
00:21:31.95\00:21:36.22
to raise up this as
an evangelistic tool
00:21:36.26\00:21:40.13
in every church.
00:21:40.16\00:21:41.50
Well, and we were talking about
00:21:41.53\00:21:42.93
if we're using evangelism
is just finding people
00:21:42.96\00:21:46.63
that are broken hearted
and letting God heal them.
00:21:46.67\00:21:49.00
You know that's
what he came for.
00:21:49.04\00:21:50.97
And one of the best ways to
become the skilful comforter
00:21:51.01\00:21:54.38
even if that doesn't
ever happen at your church
00:21:54.41\00:21:57.05
is to learn how to
be a comfort listener.
00:21:57.08\00:22:01.68
And we listen in conversation
00:22:01.72\00:22:05.05
and we listen to comfort.
00:22:05.09\00:22:07.12
And conversational listening
means that I hear what you say
00:22:07.16\00:22:10.43
and then I comment on that,
00:22:10.46\00:22:11.99
and then we talk back and forth,
00:22:12.03\00:22:13.43
and it can go off this
tangent or that tangent,
00:22:13.46\00:22:16.00
and we come to know
each other really well
00:22:16.03\00:22:17.73
and that's beautiful.
00:22:17.77\00:22:19.73
When it comes to
comfort to listening,
00:22:19.77\00:22:23.30
it is never about us
00:22:23.34\00:22:26.44
and it is always about them.
00:22:26.47\00:22:29.81
And so we need to
learn to listen in a way
00:22:29.84\00:22:32.01
that does not want us
to tell our own story.
00:22:32.05\00:22:37.95
A lot of us are guilty of that.
00:22:37.99\00:22:39.62
It is an easy thing to do
00:22:39.65\00:22:40.99
and we have a,
have a belief that,
00:22:41.02\00:22:43.09
well, if I tell you my story
00:22:43.12\00:22:44.46
then you'll know
I can identify you.
00:22:44.49\00:22:45.83
Yes.
00:22:45.86\00:22:47.20
That identify with you.
00:22:47.23\00:22:48.56
Well, the reality of it is
when you're in bereavement,
00:22:48.60\00:22:51.33
your story is
not going to change
00:22:51.37\00:22:54.24
my broken pain filled heart.
00:22:54.27\00:22:58.21
Wow.
00:22:58.24\00:22:59.57
That would hurt
because I know that
00:22:59.61\00:23:02.08
there's times that I have been
guilty of that thinking that,
00:23:02.11\00:23:05.01
if you listen long enough,
00:23:05.05\00:23:06.82
when you share a story
00:23:06.85\00:23:08.18
that they feel like
you're identifying with them
00:23:08.22\00:23:11.45
but your point is well taken.
00:23:11.49\00:23:13.15
Okay, so comfort
listening then is about
00:23:13.19\00:23:16.73
listening with our
heart and our eyes.
00:23:16.76\00:23:20.60
All we want to do
is hear their story.
00:23:20.63\00:23:25.33
We have no comparison between
our story and their story.
00:23:25.37\00:23:29.14
We're not thinking
about judging the value.
00:23:29.17\00:23:31.67
"Oh, you've had such a worse
loss than I have" or maybe,
00:23:31.71\00:23:34.41
"I've had such a
worse loss than you have."
00:23:34.44\00:23:36.68
So there's no value,
there's no judgment on that.
00:23:36.71\00:23:39.95
There is just simply
listening to their story.
00:23:39.98\00:23:46.72
And when we listen
just to hear their story,
00:23:46.76\00:23:53.29
it's because
they need to tell it.
00:23:53.33\00:23:56.56
And they may need to tell it
over and over and over again,
00:23:56.60\00:24:01.27
as an example
just to prepare people
00:24:01.30\00:24:03.64
if you're going to
step into someone's pain
00:24:03.67\00:24:05.51
very early on in the loss.
00:24:05.54\00:24:07.54
They may need to
retell the event of the death,
00:24:07.58\00:24:11.28
the accident.
00:24:11.31\00:24:12.88
I sat by my son's bedside
00:24:12.91\00:24:15.28
and that was what was on my mind
00:24:15.32\00:24:18.12
were his last
moments of his life.
00:24:18.15\00:24:20.42
And what was occurring
around that death moment,
00:24:20.46\00:24:23.73
I needed to tell
that over and over again
00:24:23.76\00:24:27.76
until I could move
on to the next part
00:24:27.80\00:24:29.60
of what I needed to tell.
00:24:29.63\00:24:31.33
And so if we're going
to be skilled comforters,
00:24:31.37\00:24:33.94
renowned comforters,
we simply need to listen.
00:24:33.97\00:24:37.61
We don't need
to fix it for them.
00:24:37.64\00:24:39.47
We don't need to
give them a solution.
00:24:39.51\00:24:41.94
We can just acknowledge.
00:24:41.98\00:24:44.05
This is really
hard, isn't it, Shelley?
00:24:44.08\00:24:47.68
That's all.
00:24:47.72\00:24:49.08
Or could you tell me more
about such and such a thing.
00:24:49.12\00:24:53.02
We might want to ask a question
00:24:53.05\00:24:54.79
so they could
continue their talking,
00:24:54.82\00:24:57.49
but do we need to
talk about ourselves?
00:24:57.53\00:24:59.59
No, not ever.
00:24:59.63\00:25:02.60
Let me ask you this question.
00:25:02.63\00:25:03.97
At what point
should you be concerned
00:25:04.00\00:25:07.90
if someone is not moving
on in the grieving process.
00:25:07.94\00:25:13.88
I'm listening to
what you're saying about
00:25:13.91\00:25:16.68
and I'm thinking of someone
00:25:16.71\00:25:18.05
specifically who is in
00:25:18.08\00:25:22.18
a constant mode
of needing comfort,
00:25:22.22\00:25:25.29
it is constant to the point
00:25:25.32\00:25:28.26
that after 12 years
00:25:28.29\00:25:29.96
I often will say as
they are doing this.
00:25:29.99\00:25:34.16
I'll bring up what some
other people have gone through,
00:25:34.20\00:25:37.57
to let this individual
know you're not alone but it's,
00:25:37.60\00:25:43.37
it's an unhealthy type of thing.
00:25:43.41\00:25:45.37
At what point do
you become concerned
00:25:45.41\00:25:48.04
and what do you do
when someone is not,
00:25:48.08\00:25:52.01
you know, six
years down the road,
00:25:52.05\00:25:53.72
nine years down the road,
00:25:53.75\00:25:55.08
if they're not
really getting beyond
00:25:55.12\00:25:58.02
and they've fallen
into the poor pitiful pearl,
00:25:58.05\00:26:01.16
you know and
what do you do then?
00:26:01.19\00:26:04.59
I might ask them, "Are you
ready to let go off the pain.
00:26:04.63\00:26:10.70
Do you still
need to be identified
00:26:10.73\00:26:12.73
by the loss in your life
00:26:12.77\00:26:14.50
or would you like to be
identified by the healing."
00:26:14.54\00:26:17.97
Those are two questions that
I usually would ask somebody.
00:26:18.01\00:26:21.38
And if they need to think
about that and if they say,
00:26:21.41\00:26:25.81
"I don't know
00:26:25.85\00:26:27.75
or I'm so accustomed to
what I've experienced that,
00:26:27.78\00:26:30.99
I didn't know there
was another way to live."
00:26:31.02\00:26:33.69
And you just gently offer that
00:26:33.72\00:26:36.69
they might want to consider
that there is a better way.
00:26:36.73\00:26:40.16
Grief work.
00:26:40.20\00:26:41.73
Grief work would be it.
00:26:41.76\00:26:43.10
And in this case after 12 years
00:26:43.13\00:26:44.50
they probably need
to see a grief coach,
00:26:44.53\00:26:46.74
a therapist, a counselor
00:26:46.77\00:26:48.44
and get that professional
help to do that, yeah.
00:26:48.47\00:26:53.54
Karen, I know that we
could continue on for many,
00:26:53.58\00:26:57.45
many more programs but this is,
00:26:57.48\00:26:59.51
since this is
your last opportunity
00:26:59.55\00:27:01.38
to be with us this season,
00:27:01.42\00:27:03.08
is there a particular comment
you wanted to close with?
00:27:03.12\00:27:06.45
Well, there's this quote
that comes from Stephen Livine,
00:27:06.49\00:27:09.42
and he says,
00:27:09.46\00:27:10.79
"When fear touches
someone's pain it becomes pity.
00:27:10.83\00:27:17.30
When your love
touches someone's pain,
00:27:17.33\00:27:20.80
it becomes compassion."
00:27:20.84\00:27:23.81
So I think the thing
we need to ask ourselves
00:27:23.84\00:27:26.24
as we're considering
becoming skilful comforters,
00:27:26.27\00:27:29.74
are we doing this because
00:27:29.78\00:27:31.55
we're drawn by God's love
to be in someone else's pain.
00:27:31.58\00:27:36.69
And that it's not
about ourselves in any way,
00:27:36.72\00:27:39.55
it's there for them so
that they can know that
00:27:39.59\00:27:41.52
the compassion
has come towards them.
00:27:41.56\00:27:43.73
I cannot think of a better way
00:27:43.76\00:27:45.63
to end this four
part series on grieving
00:27:45.66\00:27:49.60
and I do want to thank
you so much Karen Nicola,
00:27:49.63\00:27:53.70
author, grief, coach, educator,
00:27:53.74\00:27:56.67
just for being with us.
00:27:56.71\00:27:58.21
And for those of you at home,
this series will be available.
00:27:58.24\00:28:02.54
You can order the
series through the call center.
00:28:02.58\00:28:06.31
If you know somebody
that needs to hear that
00:28:06.35\00:28:08.92
or perhaps you want to
use this in your church.
00:28:08.95\00:28:13.39
Don't forget,
comfortfortheday.com
00:28:13.42\00:28:18.19
You can get in touch with Karen
00:28:18.23\00:28:19.56
and ask her to come
speak at your church
00:28:19.59\00:28:22.40
or to get her materials.
00:28:22.43\00:28:24.63
Thank you for joining us.
00:28:24.67\00:28:26.00