Join us today on
Issues and Answers
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as we welcome back author
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and grief
counselor Karen Nicola.
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And we were going to be
talking about grief work.
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Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn, and we welcome you
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once again to
Issues and Answers.
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Today, we're going to
cover a very fascinating topic.
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We are speaking with author
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and grief
counselor Karen Nicola.
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She has a ministry
called Comfort for the Day.
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And she has written a book
called Comfort for the Day,
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which is actually something
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we're gonna talk
about more in this program
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because it is a journal,
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and we're going to be speaking
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to the idea of
working through our grief,
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things that we can do,
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positive steps that we're
allowing God to do in our life.
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And of course it all
has to do with trust in God
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and knowing that His
word is a light to our feet
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and a lamp to our path.
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Karen, we are so
thankful to have you back again.
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Thank you, Shelley.
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And we've enjoyed this.
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This is the third in
a series that programs
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that we've done with
you, talking to what is grief,
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speaking about the grief spiral,
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the different
stages and phases of grief
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that not the typical
five stage thing we hear about
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because that
doesn't really imply,
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but today you wanted to call
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this program Grief Work.
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And I was kind of...
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A catchy title
caught me off guard.
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Let's just jump
right into grief work.
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Good because grief work
needs to be jumped into.
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And most people
don't have a clue
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that they have any part
to play in their grieving.
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That is just
something that happens at them
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or happens from within side,
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they're just going through this
emotional rollercoaster ride
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and it's just what it is.
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And there is no
understanding that
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we can take back
some control in our life
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when all control
has been stripped away.
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And part of that
regaining control is
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actually making
intentional purposeful decisions
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of cooperating with God's
healing for our broken heart.
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So one of the
illustrations I like to use is,
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if I might fly here to 3ABN,
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I fell off down off the
airplane and broke my leg
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somewhere in the
runway or something like that,
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and I came hobbling in
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and had never
gone to the hospital
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to have it treated
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because I got to
get here to 3ABN.
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I need to get this taping done.
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So I'm here, I've
got this broken leg,
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and then I go home
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and I never really attend to it.
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Is my life going to be affected
for the rest of my life?
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Yes, it will be.
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And it's something that
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everybody can see
from the outside now
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I have a damaged broken leg.
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Amen.
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But what we can't see is
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when people have a
damaged broken heart.
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Amen.
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And we go through life not
attending that broken heart
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just like I wouldn't attend
a broken leg would be absurd.
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But it's what we do.
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You know, there
is something coming.
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I don't think I
can articulate this
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but when you
said that, I thought,
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yeah, you have to go
back and reset the leg.
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You go through physical
therapy and when we're grieving,
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it's like you have
to set the reset button
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like you do on
a computer almost.
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You got to go back
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and intentionally do some things
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like the physical
therapy for the leg, right?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And we all know, I mean,
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a torn rotator
cuff is another example.
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You know, someone's arm
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and they got to have the surgery
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and then the
physical therapy begins,
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so when that physical
therapy begins is that...
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Painful.
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Yes, exactly, it's very painful.
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So first of all I'd
like for our viewers
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to understand that
grief work is painful.
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I'm not going
to pretend and say,
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oh, it all gets better,
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it's no nice, it's so
easy, you can do this.
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No.
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But what we need to
understand is the value of pain.
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And if we...
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Let me ask you
this real quickly.
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If we don't address
the pain, I mean because...
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I think the reason
people don't deal with it is
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because it is painful.
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Some people won't
go through counseling
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because it's too painful
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to bring up the
memories of the past.
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I'm thinking of an
individual right now
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who lost her husband
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10 years ago, 11 years go.
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And she stuck
in a grieving cycle
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and you just see
this rollercoaster.
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So someone like her
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has never really let allowed God
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to apply the balm of Gilead.
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Yeah.
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And so what you're
saying is this person,
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I mean if we don't go
through the painful experience
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of cooperating with
God to receive healing,
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then we're gonna
be hobbling around
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with the leg
that's out like this,
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and essentially
you're gonna be stuck in pain
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for years to come.
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Yeah.
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So we just need
to ask ourselves...
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Do I want to live
the rest of my life
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handicapped, hampered,
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damaged from my
grief experience,
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or do I want to
live the rest of my life
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whole, resorted
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and as God would
call me to His healing.
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And, you know,
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whether we are
Christians or not,
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a lot of people choose the,
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because of ignorance choose
the handicapped hurtful place
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to live the rest of their lives
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because they
ignorantly are unaware
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that there is healthy grief work
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that can take them through
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to a restored
healthy life again.
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Both ways our lives
will forever be changed.
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I just have to say to
those who are watching today.
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Many spouses,
many married couples
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find that there are
things that they do that trigger
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a certain
response from their spouse
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and they get so
confused by this.
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I hope you're
paying close attention
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to what we're
talking about today
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because typically speaking,
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when there is a trigger
point in someone's life,
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it is connected to some
kind of grief in the past
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with which they've not dealt.
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That's right.
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And as you say that,
hurting people hurt people.
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So if our broken
heart remains broken,
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charred, has rough edges
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and we just keep
living through our life
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without doing the grief
work to let the healing occur,
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we will be a
hurting apparent person
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who hurts people,
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and it just happens.
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Tell us so what
is this grief work?
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So this grief work
first of all is to say okay,
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if I can endure
physical pain to restore an arm
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in physical therapy or
a leg in physical therapy,
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can I endure emotional pain.
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You bet we can
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because the Lord never leads us
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to something that's
beyond our capacity.
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And it is his purpose
to heal the broken heart,
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but he understands
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that it is
painful along the way.
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And so he brings the
Holy Spirit to comfort us.
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He comforts us through his word,
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through scripture,
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and that's what I
think is so important about
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the book that I wrote.
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This is a
guided, scripture guided
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grief recovery journal.
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This is not about me and my loss
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and how I process grief.
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This becomes the reader story
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of how God's word is helping
them heal their brokenness.
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Now let me ask you,
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is this the process
when you lost your son
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at three and half
years to leukemia,
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and this was 30 years go.
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Did you know,
where you already...
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Did you employ this
process or was this something
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that you learned later.
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I absolutely, I had already...
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Interestingly
enough, I began journaling
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when I became pregnant with him.
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Okay.
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So I had been journaling
for a couple of years.
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And the habit in
my journal writing
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was to address my
journals and entries to God.
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I wanted him to
hear about my joys,
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my fears, my concerns,
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my, you know,
throughout my pregnancy
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and what it was
like to give him birth
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and certainly when he first
was diagnosed with leukemia,
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I journaled and
journaled my broken heart,
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you know, what's happening,
my questions our fate, crisis.
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So I had, had some
experience with journaling,
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but I really want the
audience to understand that
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journaling does not mean
that you have to be a writer,
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okay.
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Yeah.
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You don't have to write anything
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in perfect handwriting.
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You don't have to
use perfect spelling.
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You don't have to use grammar.
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All that we are doing is that
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we're releasing from
our mind and our heart
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the things that we
throw around and around
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and around and around and around
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until we would get them out.
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I know there is
no science for this
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but I really believe
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that the amount of time it takes
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to get a thought
down the arm and the hand
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and written on paper
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leave space for the Holy
Spirit to follow and heal.
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You know, it's interesting,
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I have a teaching called
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Pressing into his
Presence that I teach.
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This is where
God changed my life.
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I learned to journal
my prayers at addressing
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as if they were letters to God
and there were prayers to God.
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And one thing that I
found in journaling is that
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you are so much more focused,
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you're focused on God,
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you're not having
all of the distractions
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and the interruptions.
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The process of
having to write it,
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I actually typed mine
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for many, many years, you know.
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But the process of writing,
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you are employing
all of yours senses
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and then it opens
you up to be able to hear
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the impression of the still
small voice upon your mind.
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That's right.
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That's exactly right.
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And so when I
talk about grief work,
00:10:59.85\00:11:03.09
it is an
intentional purposeful activity
00:11:03.12\00:11:08.33
that we as mourners say,
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either this
morning, this afternoon,
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or this evening, I'm
gonna do my grief work.
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I'm gonna sit down
either with Karen's book
00:11:15.74\00:11:18.54
or my own empty journal
or God's word by myself.
00:11:18.57\00:11:22.11
I'm gonna sit down
and I'm gonna write about
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what is
happening to me right now.
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I'm gonna write
about the questions,
00:11:28.15\00:11:29.48
the pain, the anger, the regret.
00:11:29.52\00:11:31.72
I'm gonna write about
the acceptance, the fears.
00:11:31.75\00:11:35.56
I'm gonna write
about whatever it might be,
00:11:35.59\00:11:38.33
the experience that we're
experiencing grief right now.
00:11:38.36\00:11:41.56
And that's my grief work.
00:11:41.60\00:11:43.26
I'm going to let that exit
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my mind and heart and body
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and find its place on paper.
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One of the advantages,
you know, a lot of people say,
00:11:51.57\00:11:53.94
well, just go, talk
to a friend about it,
00:11:53.98\00:11:56.51
and that's beautiful.
00:11:56.54\00:11:58.65
And if we have
those kind of friends,
00:11:58.68\00:12:00.02
what a gift that is.
00:12:00.05\00:12:01.48
But as soon the
word leaves my mouth,
00:12:01.52\00:12:04.22
it comes back into my ear.
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When the word leaves my
body, it stays on that paper.
00:12:07.39\00:12:13.53
And so if I'm haunted
by guilts and regrets.
00:12:13.56\00:12:17.57
If I'm haunted by an image,
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the physical image of
my son committing suicide
00:12:20.07\00:12:23.71
or of being there at
the scene of an accident,
00:12:23.74\00:12:26.78
those traumatic
violent, unaccepted deaths,
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I can put that out on paper
and it leaves me for a season.
00:12:32.41\00:12:36.75
It's pretty cathartic.
00:12:36.79\00:12:38.12
Yeah, it's not that
it might not come back
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but in its return, I
know where to take it gain.
00:12:40.49\00:12:44.19
And I can take
it again and again
00:12:44.23\00:12:46.43
and that's the grief work.
00:12:46.46\00:12:48.66
If I'm not willing
to do the grief work,
00:12:48.70\00:12:51.77
where does the grief go?
00:12:51.80\00:12:54.27
To be honest
there is very few people
00:12:54.30\00:12:56.64
who have the kind of friend
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that they will
tell everything to.
00:12:59.31\00:13:01.31
We all have...
00:13:01.34\00:13:03.55
are very good
about verbal camouflage.
00:13:03.58\00:13:05.81
You know, you might
tell a portion of it
00:13:05.85\00:13:07.72
but you're leaving
out what is most painful
00:13:07.75\00:13:09.75
where as if
you're addressing God,
00:13:09.78\00:13:11.89
you can get down to this,
00:13:11.92\00:13:13.36
and sometimes you
don't even recognize
00:13:13.39\00:13:15.26
what's most painful until
you actually do begin to...
00:13:15.29\00:13:18.63
Start the writing...
00:13:18.66\00:13:20.00
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
00:13:20.03\00:13:21.36
And the importance
of addressing it to God
00:13:21.40\00:13:25.17
rather than just
blindly say, well, today,
00:13:25.20\00:13:27.04
I started out and
I'm experiencing this
00:13:27.07\00:13:28.90
and that and so forth.
00:13:28.94\00:13:31.57
By addressing it to God,
00:13:31.61\00:13:33.11
we are entrusting
it to the only power
00:13:33.14\00:13:35.58
that can do something about it.
00:13:35.61\00:13:37.91
And so, David's Psalms
are his journal entries
00:13:37.95\00:13:42.05
as far as I'm concerned.
00:13:42.08\00:13:43.42
Absolutely.
00:13:43.45\00:13:44.79
And in that he is starting
many of his psalms raging
00:13:44.82\00:13:49.66
and angry and in
anguish over something,
00:13:49.69\00:13:53.29
and by the time he is finished,
00:13:53.33\00:13:54.96
there is a voice of praise
00:13:55.00\00:13:57.83
'cause something that is changed
00:13:57.87\00:13:59.23
in that process that we
see in those psalms, yeah.
00:13:59.27\00:14:03.34
Psalms 51
especially and particularly
00:14:03.37\00:14:05.31
since we talked
about forgiveness
00:14:05.34\00:14:07.01
in our last week session.
00:14:07.04\00:14:09.11
Psalms 51 is
his journal entry of
00:14:09.14\00:14:12.85
what took place after Bathsheba
00:14:12.88\00:14:16.22
and this baby
that died and Uriah,
00:14:16.25\00:14:19.25
and all of that grief,
and the guilt, and the regret,
00:14:19.29\00:14:23.12
and there's
need for forgiveness,
00:14:23.16\00:14:24.93
and he journals that there.
00:14:24.96\00:14:27.20
It's the most
beautiful psalm of repentance.
00:14:27.23\00:14:29.56
I mean the steps of
repentance are right there
00:14:29.60\00:14:32.60
and it's beautiful.
00:14:32.63\00:14:34.20
I'm so glad that he was
the manly king of Israel
00:14:34.24\00:14:38.47
who did this because I
hear from many men, oh,
00:14:38.51\00:14:41.88
journaling is not for me.
00:14:41.91\00:14:44.41
And again our culture it's like,
00:14:44.45\00:14:46.11
well, crying is not for me.
00:14:46.15\00:14:47.78
Our culture
just inhibits the man
00:14:47.82\00:14:50.95
from being able to
grieve in healthy ways.
00:14:50.99\00:14:55.39
You know, and I will say...
00:14:55.42\00:14:58.43
Although I teach that
journaling is very effective
00:14:58.46\00:15:02.36
if you're trying to press
into the presence of the Lord.
00:15:02.40\00:15:04.33
I always tell people
00:15:04.37\00:15:05.70
you don't have to
journal to pray to God
00:15:05.73\00:15:08.67
because my
husband is a man of prayer
00:15:08.70\00:15:10.64
but if he had to
journal, he would not do it.
00:15:10.67\00:15:12.67
However I'm going to take
that back as an exception.
00:15:12.71\00:15:16.34
It's different when
you're working through grief.
00:15:16.38\00:15:19.71
The grief.
00:15:19.75\00:15:21.08
I see, I mean,
00:15:21.12\00:15:22.45
this just makes
perfect sense to me.
00:15:22.48\00:15:24.35
We are on the same page
00:15:24.39\00:15:26.09
because this is something
00:15:26.12\00:15:28.29
that anybody can
do and should do.
00:15:28.32\00:15:31.83
I mean, there were
going to go to a counselor,
00:15:31.86\00:15:36.23
if they were
going to a psychologist,
00:15:36.26\00:15:38.27
they would give
them lists of questions
00:15:38.30\00:15:40.77
and pages to write out
things because even, you know,
00:15:40.80\00:15:45.94
psychology understands
00:15:45.97\00:15:47.38
there is something
about getting it out on paper,
00:15:47.41\00:15:50.11
but how much more valuable
00:15:50.15\00:15:52.08
when you're involving the Lord,
you're addressing the Lord,
00:15:52.11\00:15:55.32
the Holy Spirit
then becomes your partner
00:15:55.35\00:15:58.69
in helping you to pray to God
00:15:58.72\00:16:01.32
and brings up things that
you may not even be aware of.
00:16:01.36\00:16:05.76
You know, it's something
that's under the surface,
00:16:05.79\00:16:08.50
so he can get below skin level.
00:16:08.53\00:16:10.97
Yeah.
00:16:11.00\00:16:12.33
Another area of
grief work involves
00:16:12.37\00:16:14.90
taking care of
you body physically.
00:16:14.94\00:16:17.87
And being very
intentional and very mindful
00:16:17.91\00:16:20.48
about not exposing yourself
00:16:20.51\00:16:25.01
to things that would
add more pain to you,
00:16:25.05\00:16:28.82
such as, you
know, violent TV shows
00:16:28.85\00:16:31.89
and the kind of things
that or loud and rock music
00:16:31.92\00:16:36.42
or things that would
just add to that pain.
00:16:36.46\00:16:40.86
It means making choices
about an exercise program,
00:16:40.90\00:16:45.20
including
exercise and making choices
00:16:45.23\00:16:47.90
about eating
well, and sleeping well,
00:16:47.94\00:16:51.11
and drinking water,
and getting sunshine.
00:16:51.14\00:16:53.78
We have access to
these natural remedies
00:16:53.81\00:16:56.41
as they are referred to.
00:16:56.44\00:16:57.78
And they are there as a
remedy for the broken heart
00:16:57.81\00:17:01.02
as well as the physical body.
00:17:01.05\00:17:02.68
But at what point
can someone do this...
00:17:02.72\00:17:08.49
I start to say self directed,
00:17:08.52\00:17:09.86
of course you hope the
Holy Spirit is involved
00:17:09.89\00:17:11.59
because it seems to me,
00:17:11.63\00:17:13.73
this is a point and I
think next time you come,
00:17:13.76\00:17:16.06
we're gonna talk about
becoming good counselors
00:17:16.10\00:17:20.74
to those who
grief be comforters.
00:17:20.77\00:17:22.77
But it seems to me that
00:17:22.80\00:17:26.84
it would be very difficult
to concentrate on your health
00:17:26.88\00:17:30.25
or doing things in
those first few months after
00:17:30.28\00:17:33.48
because so many
people want to close in,
00:17:33.52\00:17:36.58
want to get, go into the room,
00:17:36.62\00:17:39.45
put the covers over
the head and not come out.
00:17:39.49\00:17:41.86
At what point is this
realistic to say, okay,
00:17:41.89\00:17:45.89
you need to
intentionally go out take walks,
00:17:45.93\00:17:48.86
get sunshine, get
some exercise and eat well.
00:17:48.90\00:17:51.87
People aren't thinking
so much about themselves...
00:17:51.90\00:17:55.94
I'm struggling here but
at what point do you think
00:17:55.97\00:17:58.37
this actually becomes
realistic in the grief work?
00:17:58.41\00:18:01.58
It's absolutely necessary
in grief work and here again,
00:18:01.61\00:18:04.95
we got to come
back and ask ourselves,
00:18:04.98\00:18:06.88
am I willing to endure
the pain or the discomfort.
00:18:06.92\00:18:09.48
Just as if I was
doing physical therapy
00:18:09.52\00:18:11.69
to restore this
strength in this arm
00:18:11.72\00:18:13.86
or the physical
therapy for my broken leg.
00:18:13.89\00:18:16.39
Am I willing to give a try?
00:18:16.42\00:18:19.33
Am I willing to be intentional?
00:18:19.36\00:18:22.06
In my book I
have a whole section
00:18:22.10\00:18:23.80
about the physiology of grieving
00:18:23.83\00:18:25.87
with the
recommendations of how to find
00:18:25.90\00:18:29.80
and incorporate
the physical grief work
00:18:29.84\00:18:32.17
that we need to do
00:18:32.21\00:18:33.54
to maintain our physical health.
00:18:33.58\00:18:35.98
You see if we let
our physical health
00:18:36.01\00:18:39.25
diminish in bereavement,
00:18:39.28\00:18:42.98
we reduce the capacity to grieve
00:18:43.02\00:18:45.35
in a healthy way emotionally
00:18:45.39\00:18:47.46
because we're whole body system,
00:18:47.49\00:18:49.16
we're not one or the other.
00:18:49.19\00:18:51.19
And so one thing we can control.
00:18:51.23\00:18:53.90
I cannot control
the wave of emotion
00:18:53.93\00:18:55.93
that might come my way,
00:18:55.96\00:18:57.83
but I can control
that I'll go outside
00:18:57.87\00:18:59.70
and take a 15 minute walk.
00:18:59.73\00:19:01.20
That I can control.
00:19:01.24\00:19:03.00
I can control that
00:19:03.04\00:19:04.44
I will drink an X amount of
glasses of good clean water.
00:19:04.47\00:19:08.78
Those are things
that we can control,
00:19:08.81\00:19:10.91
so in a way it's almost
more realistic to suggest
00:19:10.95\00:19:17.02
and consider taking
on the physical steps
00:19:17.05\00:19:21.49
of keeping our
physical body healthy
00:19:21.52\00:19:23.99
than it is to even
consider the emotional steps.
00:19:24.03\00:19:27.03
I'm kind of laughing over here
00:19:27.06\00:19:28.40
because I have a
hard time controlling
00:19:28.43\00:19:30.60
that just in a regular...
00:19:30.63\00:19:32.87
You know, 'cause we
just do such work, you know,
00:19:32.90\00:19:35.27
your work flow...
00:19:35.30\00:19:36.64
Work driven...
00:19:36.67\00:19:38.01
Yeah, you're work
driven so I'm having,
00:19:38.04\00:19:39.37
I mean someone
would have to literally
00:19:39.41\00:19:40.74
walk me through those steps.
00:19:40.78\00:19:42.14
And I do that a
bit in the books,
00:19:42.18\00:19:44.05
so that people can go,
00:19:44.08\00:19:45.41
okay, well, I
could try this today.
00:19:45.45\00:19:46.92
I don't have to do all of them
00:19:46.95\00:19:48.28
but maybe I could
incorporate this piece
00:19:48.32\00:19:50.59
of taking care
of my physical body
00:19:50.62\00:19:52.85
and see it as my part
of doing my grief work.
00:19:52.89\00:19:59.09
And yeah, it might be
uncomfortable or unusual
00:19:59.13\00:20:01.76
or different, but
this is my grief work.
00:20:01.80\00:20:05.37
This is the season
to do my grief work.
00:20:05.40\00:20:07.67
If I delayed the
season for my grief work,
00:20:07.70\00:20:10.84
will it still need to be done?
00:20:10.87\00:20:12.21
Yes.
00:20:12.24\00:20:13.58
Yep, absolutely.
00:20:13.61\00:20:14.94
I can put 10 years
between it, 20 years before
00:20:14.98\00:20:16.51
but the grief work
will still need to be done
00:20:16.54\00:20:18.51
if I want a healed heart.
00:20:18.55\00:20:20.85
Yes.
00:20:20.88\00:20:22.22
So whether it's
the emotional work
00:20:22.25\00:20:24.89
working
something through a journal
00:20:24.92\00:20:26.25
or the physical work,
00:20:26.29\00:20:27.62
of taking care of
our physical bodies.
00:20:27.66\00:20:29.62
This is part of
what grief work is.
00:20:29.66\00:20:31.83
Amen. Yeah.
00:20:31.86\00:20:33.76
There is more grief work.
00:20:33.80\00:20:35.13
Okay. Okay.
00:20:35.16\00:20:36.97
That comes on a cyclical basis
00:20:37.00\00:20:40.40
and particularly
during the first year
00:20:40.44\00:20:43.20
when we
encounter all of the first,
00:20:43.24\00:20:46.74
the first birthday,
the first anniversary,
00:20:46.78\00:20:49.84
first Christmas, Thanksgiving,
00:20:49.88\00:20:51.88
Valentine, 4th of July
00:20:51.91\00:20:53.38
whatever were those
favorite or unusual holidays,
00:20:53.42\00:20:56.92
the season of the year
00:20:56.95\00:20:58.29
that one would
travel with their spouses.
00:20:58.32\00:20:59.82
First anniversary of the death.
00:20:59.85\00:21:01.29
First anniversary of the death.
00:21:01.32\00:21:03.32
What do we do?
00:21:03.36\00:21:04.96
That's the difficult one.
00:21:04.99\00:21:06.33
Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:06.36\00:21:07.70
That is.
00:21:07.73\00:21:09.06
I am definitely
want to encourage
00:21:09.10\00:21:12.77
people not to
shove it under a rug,
00:21:12.80\00:21:17.24
not to pretend,
00:21:17.27\00:21:20.84
that we really
do our grief work,
00:21:20.88\00:21:22.48
that we face it head on.
00:21:22.51\00:21:25.31
And what we face
head on early on,
00:21:25.35\00:21:28.98
we never have to cross
that as a first time again.
00:21:29.02\00:21:32.72
So my husband and I
really took that to heart.
00:21:32.75\00:21:37.39
And we discovered that
00:21:37.43\00:21:38.76
the anticipation
of the first birthday,
00:21:38.79\00:21:43.70
and the first
Christmas was far more intense
00:21:43.73\00:21:50.17
and painful than the
actual arrival of that day.
00:21:50.21\00:21:54.21
And so when you
arrive at that day
00:21:54.24\00:21:55.91
and you've made plans
in preparations for it
00:21:55.94\00:21:58.61
and you work through that day,
00:21:58.65\00:22:00.82
you honor your loved
on, and that day now ends.
00:22:00.85\00:22:05.79
I don't ever have to go
back and live that day again.
00:22:05.82\00:22:08.19
Not that first one.
00:22:08.22\00:22:09.56
Not that first one again, yeah.
00:22:09.59\00:22:11.53
And so, so the
more I'm intentional
00:22:11.56\00:22:13.60
for the first one,
00:22:13.63\00:22:15.26
the second is easier.
00:22:15.30\00:22:18.27
Now, even in a healed heart,
00:22:18.30\00:22:25.07
I visited my son's grave now
00:22:25.11\00:22:28.64
30 years later and did I weep?
00:22:28.68\00:22:32.81
Oh, you bet.
00:22:32.85\00:22:35.88
I will always love my son.
00:22:35.92\00:22:39.02
Amen.
00:22:39.05\00:22:40.39
Nobody will ever
take that away from me.
00:22:40.42\00:22:43.56
And is it sad
that he is not with me?
00:22:43.59\00:22:46.03
You bet.
00:22:46.06\00:22:48.10
Has God healed my heart
00:22:48.13\00:22:49.76
so that I can live and move
and breathe among his creation
00:22:49.80\00:22:53.20
and be of help to other people?
00:22:53.23\00:22:55.90
Yes, he has.
00:22:55.94\00:22:57.27
And he gets all
the glory for that.
00:22:57.31\00:22:58.64
Yes.
00:22:58.67\00:23:00.01
Yeah, he does.
00:23:00.04\00:23:01.38
So sometimes we think, oh, well,
00:23:01.41\00:23:03.78
they're going to get over it.
00:23:03.81\00:23:07.15
And if someone isn't crying
or weeping, or in depression,
00:23:07.18\00:23:10.22
or in denial,
00:23:10.25\00:23:11.69
and they seem to be
living life just fine,
00:23:11.72\00:23:13.69
and we think,
oh, they are over it.
00:23:13.72\00:23:16.32
No, we don't get over it.
00:23:16.36\00:23:19.09
It's not like a flue or a cold.
00:23:19.13\00:23:21.63
We live as
different human beings
00:23:21.66\00:23:23.93
for the rest of our lives.
00:23:23.97\00:23:25.73
When you lose a
loved one, spouse or child,
00:23:25.77\00:23:30.21
someone that's really close,
00:23:30.24\00:23:32.34
the whole rhythm
of life is changed.
00:23:32.37\00:23:35.64
And it takes time to
get into a new rhythm
00:23:35.68\00:23:40.12
but it doesn't
mean that you forget,
00:23:40.15\00:23:44.49
you don't just close
the door and shut this,
00:23:44.52\00:23:48.19
it's something
that's still there,
00:23:48.22\00:23:50.66
you always remember that.
00:23:50.69\00:23:52.26
But it is the fact that
00:23:52.29\00:23:53.96
I can see where the grief work
00:23:54.00\00:23:56.00
helps you get into a new rhythm.
00:23:56.03\00:23:59.03
Can I just...
00:23:59.07\00:24:00.44
I don't know how
much you have left to say,
00:24:00.47\00:24:02.30
but I just want to encourage
to share this scripture.
00:24:02.34\00:24:06.34
It's Isaiah 61:3,
00:24:06.37\00:24:08.94
it talks about
how God comforts all
00:24:08.98\00:24:10.98
those who mourn
and console those,
00:24:11.01\00:24:14.32
he console those who mourn,
to give them beauty for ashes,
00:24:14.35\00:24:18.52
the oil of joy for mourning,
00:24:18.55\00:24:21.46
the garment of praise
for the spirit of heaviness.
00:24:21.49\00:24:25.86
This is why it's so important
to include God in this process,
00:24:25.89\00:24:32.33
I mean, actually...
00:24:32.37\00:24:33.97
I mean, to do without him,
00:24:34.00\00:24:35.34
I don't know how anybody
00:24:35.37\00:24:36.71
goes through the grieving
process without the Lord.
00:24:36.74\00:24:40.78
It's a comfort to us
00:24:40.81\00:24:42.68
because we know that
00:24:42.71\00:24:44.25
if our loved one is in the Lord,
00:24:44.28\00:24:46.95
that's a quite a
comfort in knowing that
00:24:46.98\00:24:49.38
we have eternity to live
with them when Christ returns,
00:24:49.42\00:24:54.86
but what do you
do in grief work,
00:24:54.89\00:24:57.99
or do you address this at all.
00:24:58.03\00:25:01.60
How do you counsel to someone,
maybe that's next program,
00:25:01.63\00:25:05.20
when their loved
one wasn't in the Lord?
00:25:05.23\00:25:08.80
Oh, that's a completely
different topic than, yes.
00:25:08.84\00:25:13.41
The short answer to that is that
00:25:13.44\00:25:17.88
we've never been called to judge
00:25:17.91\00:25:20.15
anyone status
one way or the other.
00:25:20.18\00:25:22.18
Amen. That is not our calling.
00:25:22.22\00:25:23.85
God has not entrusted that
00:25:23.89\00:25:26.49
piece of his kingdom life to us.
00:25:26.52\00:25:29.12
And so what he has asked
us to do is to trust him.
00:25:29.16\00:25:32.16
Amen.
00:25:32.19\00:25:33.53
He is the only heart reader
00:25:33.56\00:25:35.93
who honestly reads
our heart and knows.
00:25:35.96\00:25:38.73
So if someone is
concerned about the future
00:25:38.77\00:25:43.91
life of eternity with
or without a loved one,
00:25:43.94\00:25:47.11
I just encourage them
that if you trust God,
00:25:47.14\00:25:50.68
would you trust
him with that piece
00:25:50.71\00:25:53.15
because he is the
only one that knows.
00:25:53.18\00:25:55.55
He knows best whether
someone would live for ever,
00:25:55.58\00:25:57.85
enjoy with him
or they would hate
00:25:57.89\00:26:00.92
having to live with him.
00:26:00.96\00:26:02.89
And so the Isaiah verse that
00:26:02.92\00:26:04.99
you opened up to was exactly
00:26:05.03\00:26:06.46
what I wanted to
finish up with for today
00:26:06.49\00:26:09.03
because as we face those person
as we acknowledge and honor,
00:26:09.06\00:26:15.84
sitting at the grave
site of my son is like
00:26:15.87\00:26:18.21
a reset button for me.
00:26:18.24\00:26:20.48
It resets what is
truly important in this life
00:26:20.51\00:26:24.68
and what is not.
00:26:24.71\00:26:26.11
It's clear that
00:26:26.15\00:26:27.48
the eternal realities
are far more important
00:26:27.52\00:26:29.88
than the temporary sufferings
00:26:29.92\00:26:31.82
and problems and trials
00:26:31.85\00:26:33.69
and etcetera that we might have.
00:26:33.72\00:26:36.32
And so the idea
that comes from Isaiah
00:26:36.36\00:26:41.50
about how God's intention is
to bring us to so much healing
00:26:41.53\00:26:47.84
that the ashes of mourning,
00:26:47.87\00:26:50.94
that's what you wear in mourning
00:26:50.97\00:26:52.97
that the sack cloth of mourning,
00:26:53.01\00:26:55.24
those are exchanged for crown
00:26:55.28\00:26:57.75
and for garments of praise
00:26:57.78\00:27:00.18
and an oil of joy
instead of, you know,
00:27:00.22\00:27:04.22
this despair of sadness.
00:27:04.25\00:27:06.35
And so that's
what God offers us,
00:27:06.39\00:27:08.92
that's what he
calls us to is this much
00:27:08.96\00:27:12.46
healing in our lives.
00:27:12.49\00:27:15.06
And that's just
the beautiful thing
00:27:15.10\00:27:17.47
that if we're
willing to cooperate with him
00:27:17.50\00:27:19.77
as my heavenly physician,
00:27:19.80\00:27:21.70
my heavenly therapist,
00:27:21.74\00:27:23.41
the one who knows my
heart intimately and perfectly
00:27:23.44\00:27:26.84
that he knows how
to take me step by step
00:27:26.88\00:27:29.48
through my valley of the
shadow of death threw it,
00:27:29.51\00:27:33.58
I just didn't want
to stay but threw it.
00:27:33.62\00:27:36.62
Then I can look at this promise
and know that it's for me.
00:27:36.65\00:27:42.42
That is such...
00:27:42.46\00:27:43.83
You know this is the
thing about God's word,
00:27:43.86\00:27:45.66
there is such comfort and life.
00:27:45.69\00:27:47.36
These words are
alive and active.
00:27:47.40\00:27:49.70
Thank you so much for
being with us today, Karen,
00:27:49.73\00:27:52.70
and we look forward to
you returning next time
00:27:52.73\00:27:55.10
when we're going to be talking
00:27:55.14\00:27:57.01
how to be good
comforters our self,
00:27:57.04\00:28:00.54
how to comfort others.
00:28:00.58\00:28:02.18
And for those of
you who are watching,
00:28:02.21\00:28:04.78
I know everyone
has been through grief
00:28:04.81\00:28:06.68
at some point in
time in their life,
00:28:06.72\00:28:08.95
and we know that if we're alive
00:28:08.98\00:28:10.75
we still have that possibility
of grief could be facing us,
00:28:10.79\00:28:14.49
but please tune in next time
00:28:14.52\00:28:16.62
so that we can see
00:28:16.66\00:28:18.39
how we can be an extension
of God's comfort to others.
00:28:18.43\00:28:23.20
God bless.
00:28:23.23\00:28:24.57