Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Karen Nicola
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000466A
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00:01 One of my favorite Bible promises
00:02 is in Revelation 21:4, 00:04 where it says that God will wipe away 00:07 every tear from our eyes. 00:09 There's gonna be no more pain, no more sorrow, 00:11 no more death 00:13 but that's not until the New Jerusalem descends. 00:17 What do we do now, when we are grieving? 00:21 If you haven't experienced grief yet in your life, 00:24 you will. 00:25 Stay tuned, today, for Issues and Answers. 00:29 Join us in our discussion on grief. 01:03 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn and we welcome you once again 01:06 to Issues & Answers. 01:07 We hope if you know anyone 01:09 who is going through the grieving process, 01:12 that you will make certain they get a copy of this program 01:15 or even call them right now and tell them to tune in 01:19 to Issues & Answers. 01:20 Our special guest today, is an author, 01:23 she's a grief counselor 01:25 and her ministry is 'Comfort for the Day.' 01:29 And her name is Karen Nicola 01:32 and she is just already becoming a very special friend 01:36 so, Karen, we welcome you to 3ABN. 01:39 Thank you, Shelley. I'm very happy to be here. 01:41 And this isn't your first visit. 01:43 You were here in 94? I was. 01:46 All right, we know that you did some grief... 01:49 Programs on grief then 01:50 but we thought it was time to have you update things so... 01:54 Yeah, here we are. 01:55 So before we actually get into the explanation, 02:00 I would like very much 02:02 if you could share your testimony 02:04 because you're very qualified to speak to this topic. 02:08 Well, as I've said every time, 02:10 the qualification comes from the Lord... 02:12 Amen. And the Lord's healing. 02:15 But I have tasted deeply of the pain of loss, 02:18 when our three and a half year old son died of leukemia, 02:21 in our home, one Friday morning. 02:24 We hadn't been slightly prepared 02:26 for his death. 02:28 We had read some things about what that might look like 02:32 but we were completely unprepared for what followed. 02:36 This chasm that you fall into, that we call 'grief' 02:39 and it was such unfamiliar territory and so frightening 02:44 because you don't know what the next turn is. 02:47 You don't know where you're going 02:48 and how to get through 02:50 the valley of the shadow of death. 02:52 Amen. 02:53 And, you know, I think that there... 02:55 To me, there could be no worse pain 02:59 than losing your child because it is so unnatural 03:03 to outlive your children and when you see a life, 03:06 a three and a half year old, a life that's ended so early. 03:10 I'm just so sorry that you went through that. 03:13 But sometimes, it's senseless 03:17 and just what we're going through 03:19 is senseless as well. 03:21 So I praise the Lord that He comforted you, 03:26 He brought you healing but I praise the Lord 03:30 that He has called you in to this ministry 03:32 because this is something that... 03:35 There's such grief in the world right now 03:39 and I hope... 03:40 Take notes as you are listening today 03:44 and what we want to do is talk about what is grief 03:50 and I hope that you'll use this, 03:52 in my mind what Karen's ministry is, 03:55 is that she can bring up, 03:57 train up people how to become good counselors of grief. 04:03 And you can use that as an evangelism tool. 04:06 So, Karen, share with us your definition of grief. 04:11 I don't know that I have one specific one 04:13 but I want to, kind of, in general, 04:15 share that grief is natural. 04:18 Yes. 04:19 And grief is normal and here's the next one. 04:22 Grief is necessary. Amen. 04:24 So many people think that, 04:27 well, I'll just pretend it away or I'll just work around it 04:32 and not ever face it and deal with it 04:35 and when we don't do that, 04:37 it does cause a lot of problems in our lives. 04:41 Many people will choose to use substances 04:45 to drown out the pain, to numb it out, 04:47 to do anything but do the work of grieving. 04:51 So one of my favorite quotes about what grief is, 04:56 comes from Earl Grollman and I'll read that, 05:00 "Grief is not a disorder or a disease 05:04 or a sign of weakness. 05:06 It is an emotional, physical and spiritual necessity." 05:10 Amen. 05:12 "It's the price we pay for love. 05:14 The only cure for grief is to grieve." 05:18 Amen. 05:20 You know, what a concept, it's necessary, 05:25 we must do the grieving work in order to grieve. 05:29 And, you know, I will add one to that. 05:31 Oh, please do. Grief cannot be denied. 05:35 We can try to stuff it, we can try to work around it, 05:40 we can think, you know, "Oh, well, they're better off" 05:43 and whatever thoughts we might have 05:45 but if we do not allow ourselves to grieve, 05:48 it will pop up at some point in time. 05:51 I mean, grief does have very definite impact 05:57 physically, emotionally, mentally 06:00 and there's no denying it. 06:03 We'll try to deny it... 06:04 Yeah, we'll try. Amen. But it will still be with us. 06:08 So any of our losses 06:12 do affect us for the rest of our life. 06:14 And while it's very unnatural to lose a child, 06:18 for a child to die before a parent dies. 06:21 I'd like to just remind us all, 06:23 that no matter the extremity of the loss, 06:26 no matter how violent 06:30 or unprepared or horrific 06:35 or awful that loss might be, 06:37 God's grace in healing goes beyond that. 06:40 Amen. 06:41 We can never get off to a point in our pain, 06:44 that God doesn't go further. 06:46 And I think that's really an important first note 06:50 to really make us strong. 06:51 And that, how true that is. 06:53 But tell us some of the symptoms, 06:56 if you will of grief. 06:58 Like, you've mentioned it is physical, it is mental, 07:01 it is emotional and it's even, I mean, 07:04 it can have a very definite spiritual impact. 07:06 What are some of the things... 07:08 Yeah, it does, it really, really does. 07:11 Can I just mention one thing before I go to that point? 07:13 Surely. 07:14 Because sometimes we think of grief 07:17 as only occurring when someone we know passes away or dies. 07:22 But there is grief in all of life's losses. 07:25 So some of those other losses would include 07:28 the loss of health as people age 07:30 and their eyesight diminishes 07:32 or they can't play tennis or snow-ski any longer. 07:35 There's losses in relationships 07:38 because there's misunderstandings, 07:40 there can be losses in... 07:42 When our pet dies and we mourn and grieve over that 07:45 or a loss of a job. 07:48 What about the loss of our home through fire or devastation? 07:52 I mean, you guys live here where there are tornadoes 07:55 and that kind of weather and can ruin homes 07:58 and then there's a loss through divorce 08:01 or the loss of innocence and trust, 08:05 the loss of a dream. 08:07 So these are all losses that we encounter 08:09 and the reassuring news is that, 08:13 Jesus was a man acquainted with sorrows... 08:16 Amen. And grief, so does He care? 08:20 Does He know? 08:21 Does He understand? Absolutely. 08:23 Yeah, and that's the comforting news 08:27 that we get from God and from scripture, 08:29 is that He does know our pain. 08:32 There's nothing about our pain that is unfamiliar to Him. 08:35 Not just because He's looking up from above 08:37 and can see it down below 08:39 but because He's actually been below. 08:41 And He's actually experienced... 08:42 Experienced everything... 08:44 This pain. 08:45 The Bible says in Hebrews 2 08:47 that He became like us in all ways 08:50 because this is what qualified Him, 08:53 then to be a faithful high priest. 08:56 So He does understand everything 08:58 that we've been through, amen. 09:00 And as He's a faithful high priest, 09:01 could we take license to say 09:04 the most qualified comforter we can find. 09:06 The one who knows our broken hearts. 09:08 Yeah. 09:10 So the term that we use 09:11 for the loss of a death of a loved one 09:14 or death of someone important to us. 09:17 Sometimes someone will die 09:18 that's in our circle of influence, 09:20 that we might not really love 09:22 but they've been important in one way or another. 09:25 That term that we use 09:27 for that type of loss is bereavement. 09:30 And now we know we're talking about 09:31 something that's specific to the death of a human being, 09:35 of a life and that, 09:36 that person's presence is not with us any longer. 09:40 So if we wanna talk about 09:43 some of the different experiences of grief, 09:47 I find it's really best to start with a mental eraser. 09:52 Have you ever heard the term, 'the stages of grief?' 09:54 Yes. Okay. 09:56 And we think, "Oh, yeah, stages of grief. 09:58 I think that they add shock and denial, 10:02 it seems like it's anger and depression 10:05 and then finally we make an adjustment" and well, 10:08 I would suggest that we take a mental eraser 10:12 and erase those stages of grief. 10:14 And this is why, Elisabeth Kubler Ross 10:18 was the person who did this research work 10:21 and put these stages out there for us to, 10:23 kind of, label our processes with. 10:26 But the research she did was observing people 10:31 in their terminal illness, people facing their own death. 10:36 Okay. 10:38 And so as she saw that, she saw these familiar stages 10:42 that each person went through 10:44 and since it was called grieving 10:46 and it went over that umbrella of grief, 10:48 of all those losses we've just talked about, 10:51 we've done... 10:52 Tried to apply that to life after loss, 10:55 those of us that survive 10:57 that are now living in this space of grief 11:02 and we can't make that. 11:05 It doesn't fit. 11:07 I tried to, after our son died, I tried to go, "Okay, 11:10 so this is this stage of grief 11:12 and now this is this stage of grief" 11:14 but it didn't work that way at all. 11:17 And no two people grieve alike. Yes. 11:20 You know, and it happens, 11:22 there's different reactions at different times. 11:25 Nothing is tidy and in order, 11:26 there's nothing that you can do a check-list and say, 11:29 "I've been through this, I've been through this" 11:30 'cause you may hit, you may be in anger 11:33 and think you've worked through that 11:34 and then find that you've come back to anger. 11:37 No two people grieve alike. 11:39 Yeah, and we're gonna talk about that again 11:42 towards the very end of our session today. 11:46 So I just wanted to, kind of, get that clear. 11:48 So that our listeners, our viewers could, 11:52 kind of, sit back and revaluate, 11:54 "Okay, I don't have to plug myself 11:57 into someone's formula, 11:59 I can just be grieving in the way that I grieve." 12:04 And that's for a lot of different reasons 12:06 that we grieve each, individually. 12:08 So I call them the experiences of grief. 12:11 And what's going to happen 12:13 is that we're going to experience grief 12:14 physiologically and emotionally and spiritually. 12:20 So would you like to know a little bit 12:22 about our physical grief? 12:24 Please. Okay. 12:25 Well, physically, one of the first things 12:27 that occurs is that our entire body is affected. 12:31 That's a traumatizing shock, 12:35 of the now absence of someone we love is, 12:40 hits us so hard that it's not just an emotional reaction. 12:45 That's true. 12:47 Our heads are connected to our body 12:49 and the center framework of our brain 12:52 has all kinds of nerves 12:56 that move in to the rest of our body. 12:59 And so one of the first things that will occur 13:02 is that our entire immune system will take a hit. 13:05 And that will last for about 12 months. 13:08 And one of those reasons that the 12 months is, 13:10 kind of, given is that, 13:12 we have now this year's period of time 13:15 to face all these firsts without our loved one. 13:19 Yes, yes. 13:20 And those firsts take upto a year to face. 13:25 So knowing that our immune system is jeopardized, 13:29 can help us to really make better choices 13:31 about what we eat 13:32 and how we take care of our health, 13:34 taking in extra vitamin Cs or doing whatever we can, 13:37 so that we will help ourselves, 13:39 not be at such a risk for getting physically ill 13:42 on top of it. 13:43 And the sad truth of it is, 13:45 is that quite often there are a number of people, 13:47 one thing that I do when I'm grieving 13:50 'cause I'm good at trying to stuff my feelings 13:52 and get on with things. 13:53 But one thing that I've noticed that I do, 13:56 is I don't eat as well. 13:57 I eat. 13:59 I have a tendency to eat "comfort food" 14:02 or to crave things that I normally wouldn't eat. 14:07 So it's interesting that, you bring this point up first 14:12 because for someone that's at home 14:14 going through this now, please hear that 14:17 it is a very definite physical reaction in your body. 14:22 I think part of it is, 14:24 stress increases the inflammation in our body 14:29 which has something to do with... 14:30 Stress really does effect the immune system. 14:33 Oh, absolutely. 14:35 So you need to be taking more vitamin C, 14:37 you need to be trying to get out in some sunlight 14:40 et cetera, so go ahead. 14:42 And I speak about that in my book, 14:44 there is a section on, 14:45 the physiology of grieving but there's some other... 14:48 And since you mentioned your book, 14:49 let me go ahead and mention that, 14:51 Karen after her experience, when did you write? 14:54 How long has it been, 30 years since your son died? 14:57 It has been 30 years. 14:59 And I'm sure that seems almost impossible for you to believe. 15:03 It does. 15:04 Karen is the author of... 15:06 It's a journal, 15:08 it's something that you can go through 15:11 and use the book to find comfort 15:15 for emotional, physical grief 15:19 and it's got some wonderful prayer promises in the... 15:24 Promises of the Bible, here to help you 15:28 but it's a place, 15:29 it's, kind of, an outline telling you how to go 15:32 about journaling your thoughts, 15:35 journaling God's response to you 15:37 and a wonderful book, it's called, 15:40 "Comfort for the Day, living through the seasons of grief." 15:46 So we'll just talk about that now and then we go... 15:49 We'll talk about it again later. 15:50 But some more physical reactions 15:52 that we experience would be, 15:53 we even have a reduction of vision, 15:55 our eyesight might just really wing out on us, 15:59 will have headaches and stomach aches, chest pain. 16:02 I had such deep chest pain, there's almost a fear like, 16:06 am I having a heart attack. 16:09 There will be muscle pain and it just... 16:11 All top to bottom body aching, fatigue, 16:17 disruption in sleep habits. 16:20 A definitely, disruption in our digestive system, 16:24 craving those foods that you might not normally eat 16:26 or losing one's appetite altogether and not eating 16:30 and maintaining enough calories to live in a healthy way. 16:34 So it can go both directions, mental confusion, 16:40 our mortician encouraged us, 16:43 "Please don't drive for a couple of weeks" 16:47 and we, kind of, looked at him, like, 16:49 "Oh, okay" and didn't heed his advice 16:54 and the day after our son's funeral, 16:56 we were delivering the funeral flowers 16:59 that did not set well with me in my home. 17:03 I wanted my son in my home, not these flowers... 17:05 Yes. 17:06 And so I needed to get the flowers out 17:09 and so not... 17:11 we didn't want to throw them away, 17:12 so we put them in vases and we're gonna take them 17:14 to convalescent home, so folks could enjoy them. 17:18 Driving across town, to get to the local convalescent home, 17:21 we found ourselves lost. 17:25 So that mental confusion is definitely there, 17:28 you can't focus, there's just been so much trauma 17:32 that the mind has a very difficult time 17:34 processing just normal activities. 17:37 And praise God you didn't say... 17:38 I was expecting you to say you ran in... 17:40 Accident, no, thankfully we weren't in an accident 17:43 but that could occur 17:44 and then you have only pain upon pain, 17:46 so rather than, you know, bucking it up and going, 17:50 "Okay, I'm gonna work this through, 17:51 I'm gonna just do this and..." 17:53 Let's not. 17:55 Let's honor what's happening to our bodies 17:59 because someone we love deeply is not with us. 18:03 That's huge. 18:05 I just want to bring this question up somewhere... 18:08 we're, kind of, flying by the seat of our pants here 18:10 but and it may not be the right time, 18:15 but I'd like to address this before the end of this program. 18:19 As Christians, sometimes 18:21 we're made to feel guilty for grieving. 18:24 It is that, you know, "Well, don't you have faith in God 18:28 and, you know, God's will and God's plan for your life," 18:32 so there are a lot of people, I'm just so glad 18:35 you're going through what these symptoms are 18:38 because sometimes we feel guilty 18:40 for experiencing these things. 18:43 We feel guilty when we get to that point of, 18:45 especially, if you're breaking into tears 18:47 in front of somebody, you see people 18:49 who are just trying to be so strong 18:51 and, you know, well, we give God all glory. 18:56 I'd like to talk about the fact that it's okay to grieve. 19:02 You have to grieve, so. 19:04 Well, I think, having said that, 19:06 just regain the reminder, 19:08 Jesus is our example in all things. 19:09 Yes. 19:11 He was a man acquainted with sorrows and grief. 19:14 Full of sorrow and acquainted with grief. 19:17 And what we don't see in actual biblical story, 19:20 of how he mourned or how he grieved. 19:22 We do see that he did cry, he did weep uncontrollably 19:27 over the loss of his people of Israel. 19:32 So would he not give us permission... 19:34 And I think we... 19:35 To weep over someone. 19:37 And we see also in the garden of Gethsemane, 19:41 I mean, he was in a depression, 19:44 even in the garden of Gethsemane, 19:46 he was so oppressed and what was coming that, 19:49 you know, he cried vehemently, 19:52 with the loud cries he was addressing God 19:55 and he actually sweat drops of blood. 19:58 So we do see he was familiar with grief, 20:02 he does understand. 20:03 He knows the anguish of a broken heart. 20:05 And that's what we're experiencing 20:07 and I'm glad you mentioned tears 20:08 because that's the last physiological experience 20:13 that I wanted to hit on, is that our tears are the honor 20:20 we give to the one we love. 20:24 And today's medical science is doing research 20:27 about the chemical composition of tears 20:30 and when we tear out of joy, 20:32 the chemical composition looks very different 20:35 than when we tear out of bereavement. 20:36 That's interesting. 20:38 And when we tear out of bereavement, 20:39 those tears actually contain body toxins. 20:44 So there is healing in our tears 20:46 and sadly our culture does not provide, 20:50 particularly for men to have that freedom to weep 20:55 and to cry, we are, kind of, told that, 20:59 you know, we have to be strong and strong in the Lord 21:01 and show everybody, you know, your faith and how good it is. 21:04 Well, my faith allows me to grieve. 21:08 I want to grieve though in a way 21:11 that is in a healthy way. 21:13 A way that is directed by my Great Physician 21:17 who is in the process of healing my broken heart. 21:20 And that we have freedom to do, 21:23 so should anybody suggest to someone, you know, 21:26 don't grieve, 21:27 you shouldn't grieve over this loss. 21:29 You can look at them and say, you know, 21:31 my Savior knows my broken heart 21:33 and he's given me permission to grieve. 21:36 And shame on people who say those kind of things 21:39 but we're gonna address that in an another program. 21:41 They just don't know, they don't know 21:42 but our emotional grief 21:44 will take on many different aspects of the emotional life 21:47 and that includes, 'shock,' 21:50 that's definitely, kind of, a first deal 21:53 but with that shock often comes a sense of relief 21:56 and some people feel guilty for feeling relief, 21:59 you know, I'll explain, 22:01 you know, if someone has been by the bed side 22:03 of a terminal loved one 22:06 or in the process of the long good bye 22:08 as in alzheimer's. 22:11 There is overwhelming relief 22:14 that that loved one no longer is suffering or is in pain 22:19 but because we don't have enough support 22:22 in our grief, we sometimes withdraw and say, 22:26 "Oh, I shouldn't feel that way. 22:27 I shouldn't feel that relief" 22:29 and so it's good to know that if we have that relief, 22:34 that's natural, that's normal, it's necessary, it's grieving. 22:39 There will be fear, there can be anger and despair, 22:43 there can be depression, 22:45 blame is another experience and guilt and regret. 22:50 We can blame ourselves, we can blame the medical staff, 22:53 we can blame a drunk driver and we can hold on to that 22:57 and in anyone of these places emotionally, we can get stuck. 23:04 And then we know, "Oh, this isn't healthy grieving. 23:07 I'm stuck here," but sometimes if we're not even aware 23:11 that we're blaming 23:13 or that we're just over burdened with guilt, 23:15 we can stay in that for a lifetime 23:17 and it will ruin our lives and relationships around us. 23:22 Sometimes there's anxiety, there certainly is sadness 23:26 and just an overall malice or pain emotionally, 23:30 then finally in the grieving journey, 23:32 there becomes to have a readjustment 23:36 and then acceptance 23:39 and we find ourselves on the other side 23:41 of that deep dark valley of the shadow of death. 23:45 And then something... 23:48 My aunt told me, she was married for 55 years 23:51 and she did watch my uncle, died a lingering, 23:55 it was over a period of several years 23:57 that he was bed-ridden. 23:59 But when he died, she told me a few years later, 24:05 we have had her out here at our home. 24:08 And she said, you know, I said, "How are you doing?" 24:11 'Cause she's always such a strong woman 24:14 and she's faced a lot of grief, 24:16 I've mentioned to you in the green room, 24:18 her son was four years old and died of a sudden... 24:23 He had meningitis and he died on Christmas day. 24:27 Well, when my uncle died, you know, she always... 24:31 When you talk to her, she'd sound so strong 24:33 but she told me that it took a year 24:37 to get her feet under her 24:39 and another year to walk without wobbling. 24:44 That's nicely said. 24:46 And I've shared that with a lot of people 24:48 who've lost a spouse and everyone identifies. 24:51 But the point is that, 24:53 that first year she would watch, 24:54 they traveled a lot, did lot of family vacations 24:58 and she said she would watch the DVDs 25:03 or the film that they had taken during these vacations 25:05 and she would weep sometimes uncontrollably. 25:09 And after that period, when you... 25:11 As you said, you cross the chasm, 25:13 then suddenly it's like a curtain was drawn back 25:19 and on these memories, 25:21 it was like this, grief was drawn back. 25:24 Suddenly, she's finding joy from watching them. 25:28 You know, because they became comforting to her, 25:31 after she crossed the chasm. 25:33 But it can effect us spiritually, can it not? 25:36 It does, it does and one of the things 25:38 that often occurs for a follower of Jesus, 25:42 for someone who loves God and trusts God. 25:45 There can be a faith crisis 25:48 and that crisis of faith can feel like, 25:53 the sure ground beneath her feet 25:55 has just opened up and we're just free falling 25:59 and there are deep questions that we have of God, 'Why? 26:04 God, did this happen to me? 26:06 And how am I gonna live through this pain 26:09 that is seemingly unbearable this moment? 26:13 I can't even think that I can get through this day. 26:16 And where were you, God, when these things occurred?' 26:21 and so, I would just encourage all viewers 26:26 to stay with God in the process. 26:29 Let Him reveal himself to you, 26:32 He knows best when our hearts are ready 26:35 and able to hear the answers to the questions, 26:39 the screaming questions we have for Him. 26:42 And one example of that for me is, 26:44 when my daughter was about two, she was asking me, 26:47 "Mommy, where does hair come? 26:51 How's our hair made?" 26:54 And I laughed at myself and thought, 26:58 this is a prime example of the questions 27:02 we rail at God, that we are not mentally, 27:06 spiritually ready to receive His answers. 27:09 Yes. 27:10 I couldn't explain to my two year old daughter 27:12 where hair was from, could I? 27:14 She didn't have the background in chemistry 27:17 to know and understand 27:18 that they're dead protein cells. 27:20 And we do that with God and so if we can just sit back 27:23 and say, "Okay, God, these are all my questions 27:25 and you're chest is big enough for me to beat on you 27:27 as long as I need to, it doesn't offend you 27:30 and you're still with me in my pain." 27:32 Amen and I cannot believe our time is already gone, 27:34 you're going to come back. 27:36 What are we gonna be speaking about next week? 27:37 We're gonna start with the spiral of grief, 27:40 spiral of bereavement 27:41 and then what forgiveness has to do with that. 27:45 Amen. 27:46 Thank you so much for being here 27:48 and I wanted to just add real quickly. 27:49 Sometimes, it's not so much of free fall, 27:52 as some people in their grieving process 27:55 become apathetic, they just, they don't feel like studying, 27:59 they don't feel like reading because it is something that... 28:02 It's a depression is really what it is, 28:05 so there's many different things to experience 28:08 and we're gonna be speaking next week 28:10 again with Karen Nicola and we thank you for joining us 28:14 and hope you will tune in next week, 28:16 as we go through this spiral of grief 28:19 and get a little deeper into this topic. 28:21 Thank you. |
Revised 2016-10-24