One of my
favorite Bible promises
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is in Revelation 21:4,
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where it says
that God will wipe away
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every tear from our eyes.
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There's gonna be no
more pain, no more sorrow,
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no more death
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but that's not until
the New Jerusalem descends.
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What do we do now,
when we are grieving?
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If you haven't experienced
grief yet in your life,
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you will.
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Stay tuned, today,
for Issues and Answers.
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Join us in our
discussion on grief.
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Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
and we welcome you once again
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to Issues & Answers.
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We hope if you know anyone
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who is going through
the grieving process,
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that you will make certain
they get a copy of this program
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or even call them right
now and tell them to tune in
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to Issues & Answers.
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Our special guest
today, is an author,
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she's a grief counselor
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and her ministry is
'Comfort for the Day.'
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And her name is Karen Nicola
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and she is just already
becoming a very special friend
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so, Karen, we
welcome you to 3ABN.
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Thank you, Shelley.
I'm very happy to be here.
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And this isn't your first visit.
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You were here in 94? I was.
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All right, we know
that you did some grief...
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Programs on grief then
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but we thought it was time
to have you update things so...
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Yeah, here we are.
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So before we actually
get into the explanation,
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I would like very much
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if you could
share your testimony
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because you're very qualified
to speak to this topic.
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Well, as I've said every time,
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the qualification
comes from the Lord...
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Amen. And the Lord's healing.
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But I have tasted
deeply of the pain of loss,
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when our three and a half
year old son died of leukemia,
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in our home, one Friday morning.
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We hadn't been slightly prepared
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for his death.
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We had read some things
about what that might look like
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but we were completely
unprepared for what followed.
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This chasm that you fall
into, that we call 'grief'
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and it was such unfamiliar
territory and so frightening
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because you don't
know what the next turn is.
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You don't know
where you're going
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and how to get through
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the valley of
the shadow of death.
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Amen.
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And, you know, I
think that there...
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To me, there
could be no worse pain
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than losing your child
because it is so unnatural
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to outlive your children
and when you see a life,
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a three and a half year old,
a life that's ended so early.
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I'm just so sorry
that you went through that.
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But sometimes, it's senseless
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and just what
we're going through
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is senseless as well.
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So I praise the Lord
that He comforted you,
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He brought you
healing but I praise the Lord
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that He has called
you in to this ministry
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because this is
something that...
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There's such grief
in the world right now
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and I hope...
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Take notes as you
are listening today
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and what we want to do
is talk about what is grief
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and I hope that you'll use this,
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in my mind what
Karen's ministry is,
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is that she can bring up,
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train up people how to
become good counselors of grief.
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And you can use that
as an evangelism tool.
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So, Karen, share with us
your definition of grief.
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I don't know that I
have one specific one
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but I want to,
kind of, in general,
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share that grief is natural.
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Yes.
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And grief is normal
and here's the next one.
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Grief is necessary. Amen.
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So many people think that,
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well, I'll just pretend it
away or I'll just work around it
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and not ever face
it and deal with it
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and when we don't do that,
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it does cause a lot
of problems in our lives.
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Many people will
choose to use substances
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to drown out the
pain, to numb it out,
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to do anything but
do the work of grieving.
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So one of my favorite
quotes about what grief is,
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comes from Earl
Grollman and I'll read that,
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"Grief is not a
disorder or a disease
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or a sign of weakness.
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It is an emotional, physical
and spiritual necessity."
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Amen.
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"It's the price we pay for love.
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The only cure for
grief is to grieve."
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Amen.
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You know, what a
concept, it's necessary,
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we must do the grieving
work in order to grieve.
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And, you know, I
will add one to that.
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Oh, please do.
Grief cannot be denied.
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We can try to stuff it,
we can try to work around it,
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we can think, you know,
"Oh, well, they're better off"
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and whatever
thoughts we might have
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but if we do not
allow ourselves to grieve,
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it will pop up at
some point in time.
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I mean, grief does
have very definite impact
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physically,
emotionally, mentally
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and there's no denying it.
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We'll try to deny it...
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Yeah, we'll try. Amen.
But it will still be with us.
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So any of our losses
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do affect us for
the rest of our life.
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And while it's very
unnatural to lose a child,
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for a child to die
before a parent dies.
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I'd like to just remind us all,
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that no matter the
extremity of the loss,
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no matter how violent
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or unprepared or horrific
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or awful that loss might be,
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God's grace in
healing goes beyond that.
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Amen.
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We can never get off
to a point in our pain,
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that God doesn't go further.
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And I think that's
really an important first note
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to really make us strong.
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And that, how true that is.
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But tell us
some of the symptoms,
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if you will of grief.
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Like, you've mentioned it
is physical, it is mental,
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it is emotional
and it's even, I mean,
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it can have a very
definite spiritual impact.
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What are some of the things...
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Yeah, it does, it
really, really does.
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Can I just mention one
thing before I go to that point?
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Surely.
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Because
sometimes we think of grief
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as only occurring when someone
we know passes away or dies.
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But there is grief
in all of life's losses.
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So some of those
other losses would include
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the loss of health as people age
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and their eyesight diminishes
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or they can't play
tennis or snow-ski any longer.
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There's losses in relationships
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because there's
misunderstandings,
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there can be losses in...
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When our pet dies and we
mourn and grieve over that
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or a loss of a job.
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What about the loss of our home
through fire or devastation?
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I mean, you guys live
here where there are tornadoes
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and that kind of
weather and can ruin homes
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and then there's a
loss through divorce
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or the loss of
innocence and trust,
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the loss of a dream.
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So these are all
losses that we encounter
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and the reassuring news is that,
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Jesus was a man
acquainted with sorrows...
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Amen. And
grief, so does He care?
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Does He know?
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Does He understand? Absolutely.
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Yeah, and that's
the comforting news
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that we get from
God and from scripture,
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is that He does know our pain.
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There's nothing about our
pain that is unfamiliar to Him.
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Not just because
He's looking up from above
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and can see it down below
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but because He's
actually been below.
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And He's actually experienced...
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Experienced everything...
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This pain.
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The Bible says in Hebrews 2
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that He became
like us in all ways
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because this is
what qualified Him,
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then to be a
faithful high priest.
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So He does understand everything
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that we've been through, amen.
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And as He's a
faithful high priest,
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could we take license to say
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the most qualified
comforter we can find.
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The one who knows
our broken hearts.
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Yeah.
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So the term that we use
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for the loss of a
death of a loved one
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or death of
someone important to us.
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Sometimes someone will die
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that's in our
circle of influence,
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that we might not really love
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but they've been
important in one way or another.
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That term that we use
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for that type of
loss is bereavement.
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And now we know
we're talking about
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something that's specific
to the death of a human being,
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of a life and that,
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that person's presence
is not with us any longer.
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So if we wanna talk about
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some of the
different experiences of grief,
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I find it's really best to
start with a mental eraser.
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Have you ever heard the
term, 'the stages of grief?'
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Yes. Okay.
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And we think, "Oh,
yeah, stages of grief.
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I think that they
add shock and denial,
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it seems like it's
anger and depression
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and then finally we
make an adjustment" and well,
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I would suggest that
we take a mental eraser
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and erase those stages of grief.
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And this is why,
Elisabeth Kubler Ross
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was the person who
did this research work
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and put these
stages out there for us to,
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kind of, label
our processes with.
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But the research she
did was observing people
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in their terminal illness,
people facing their own death.
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Okay.
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And so as she saw that,
she saw these familiar stages
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that each person went through
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and since it was called grieving
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and it went over
that umbrella of grief,
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of all those losses
we've just talked about,
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we've done...
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Tried to apply
that to life after loss,
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those of us that survive
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that are now living
in this space of grief
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and we can't make that.
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It doesn't fit.
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I tried to, after our son
died, I tried to go, "Okay,
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so this is this stage of grief
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and now this is
this stage of grief"
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but it didn't
work that way at all.
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And no two people
grieve alike. Yes.
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You know, and it happens,
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there's different
reactions at different times.
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Nothing is tidy and in order,
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there's nothing that you
can do a check-list and say,
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"I've been through
this, I've been through this"
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'cause you may
hit, you may be in anger
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and think you've
worked through that
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and then find that
you've come back to anger.
00:11:34.69\00:11:37.26
No two people grieve alike.
00:11:37.29\00:11:39.43
Yeah, and we're
gonna talk about that again
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towards the very end
of our session today.
00:11:42.60\00:11:46.33
So I just wanted to,
kind of, get that clear.
00:11:46.37\00:11:48.40
So that our
listeners, our viewers could,
00:11:48.44\00:11:52.67
kind of, sit back and revaluate,
00:11:52.71\00:11:54.61
"Okay, I don't
have to plug myself
00:11:54.64\00:11:57.18
into someone's formula,
00:11:57.21\00:11:59.35
I can just be grieving
in the way that I grieve."
00:11:59.38\00:12:04.15
And that's for a
lot of different reasons
00:12:04.19\00:12:06.15
that we grieve
each, individually.
00:12:06.19\00:12:08.06
So I call them the
experiences of grief.
00:12:08.09\00:12:11.43
And what's going to happen
00:12:11.46\00:12:12.99
is that we're
going to experience grief
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physiologically and
emotionally and spiritually.
00:12:14.73\00:12:20.77
So would you like
to know a little bit
00:12:20.80\00:12:22.77
about our physical grief?
00:12:22.80\00:12:24.14
Please. Okay.
00:12:24.17\00:12:25.64
Well, physically,
one of the first things
00:12:25.67\00:12:27.41
that occurs is that our
entire body is affected.
00:12:27.44\00:12:31.68
That's a traumatizing shock,
00:12:31.71\00:12:35.22
of the now absence
of someone we love is,
00:12:35.25\00:12:40.49
hits us so hard that it's
not just an emotional reaction.
00:12:40.52\00:12:45.96
That's true.
00:12:45.99\00:12:47.33
Our heads are
connected to our body
00:12:47.36\00:12:49.43
and the center
framework of our brain
00:12:49.46\00:12:52.93
has all kinds of nerves
00:12:52.97\00:12:56.60
that move in to
the rest of our body.
00:12:56.64\00:12:59.57
And so one of the
first things that will occur
00:12:59.61\00:13:01.98
is that our entire
immune system will take a hit.
00:13:02.01\00:13:05.91
And that will last
for about 12 months.
00:13:05.95\00:13:08.35
And one of those
reasons that the 12 months is,
00:13:08.38\00:13:10.72
kind of, given is that,
00:13:10.75\00:13:12.09
we have now this
year's period of time
00:13:12.12\00:13:15.36
to face all these
firsts without our loved one.
00:13:15.39\00:13:19.46
Yes, yes.
00:13:19.49\00:13:20.83
And those firsts
take upto a year to face.
00:13:20.86\00:13:25.23
So knowing that our
immune system is jeopardized,
00:13:25.27\00:13:29.40
can help us to
really make better choices
00:13:29.44\00:13:31.37
about what we eat
00:13:31.41\00:13:32.74
and how we take
care of our health,
00:13:32.77\00:13:34.11
taking in extra vitamin
Cs or doing whatever we can,
00:13:34.14\00:13:37.28
so that we will help ourselves,
00:13:37.31\00:13:39.45
not be at such a risk
for getting physically ill
00:13:39.48\00:13:42.22
on top of it.
00:13:42.25\00:13:43.59
And the sad truth of it is,
00:13:43.62\00:13:45.09
is that quite often
there are a number of people,
00:13:45.12\00:13:47.56
one thing that I
do when I'm grieving
00:13:47.59\00:13:50.03
'cause I'm good at
trying to stuff my feelings
00:13:50.06\00:13:52.19
and get on with things.
00:13:52.23\00:13:53.63
But one thing that
I've noticed that I do,
00:13:53.66\00:13:56.03
is I don't eat as well.
00:13:56.06\00:13:57.87
I eat.
00:13:57.90\00:13:59.23
I have a tendency
to eat "comfort food"
00:13:59.27\00:14:02.57
or to crave things that
I normally wouldn't eat.
00:14:02.60\00:14:07.78
So it's interesting that,
you bring this point up first
00:14:07.81\00:14:12.31
because for
someone that's at home
00:14:12.35\00:14:14.62
going through this
now, please hear that
00:14:14.65\00:14:17.42
it is a very definite
physical reaction in your body.
00:14:17.45\00:14:22.36
I think part of it is,
00:14:22.39\00:14:23.99
stress increases the
inflammation in our body
00:14:24.03\00:14:28.96
which has
something to do with...
00:14:29.00\00:14:30.93
Stress really does
effect the immune system.
00:14:30.97\00:14:33.87
Oh, absolutely.
00:14:33.90\00:14:35.24
So you need to be
taking more vitamin C,
00:14:35.27\00:14:37.37
you need to be trying
to get out in some sunlight
00:14:37.41\00:14:40.88
et cetera, so go ahead.
00:14:40.91\00:14:42.58
And I speak
about that in my book,
00:14:42.61\00:14:44.01
there is a section on,
00:14:44.05\00:14:45.58
the physiology of grieving
but there's some other...
00:14:45.61\00:14:48.02
And since you
mentioned your book,
00:14:48.05\00:14:49.42
let me go ahead
and mention that,
00:14:49.45\00:14:51.59
Karen after her
experience, when did you write?
00:14:51.62\00:14:54.72
How long has it been, 30
years since your son died?
00:14:54.76\00:14:57.39
It has been 30 years.
00:14:57.43\00:14:59.03
And I'm sure that seems almost
impossible for you to believe.
00:14:59.06\00:15:03.30
It does.
00:15:03.33\00:15:04.67
Karen is the author of...
00:15:04.70\00:15:06.63
It's a journal,
00:15:06.67\00:15:08.00
it's something
that you can go through
00:15:08.04\00:15:11.14
and use the book to find comfort
00:15:11.17\00:15:15.78
for emotional, physical grief
00:15:15.81\00:15:19.05
and it's got some wonderful
prayer promises in the...
00:15:19.08\00:15:24.35
Promises of the
Bible, here to help you
00:15:24.39\00:15:28.12
but it's a place,
00:15:28.16\00:15:29.86
it's, kind of, an
outline telling you how to go
00:15:29.89\00:15:32.46
about journaling your thoughts,
00:15:32.49\00:15:35.16
journaling God's response to you
00:15:35.20\00:15:37.93
and a wonderful
book, it's called,
00:15:37.97\00:15:40.57
"Comfort for the Day, living
through the seasons of grief."
00:15:40.60\00:15:46.04
So we'll just talk about
that now and then we go...
00:15:46.07\00:15:49.18
We'll talk about it again later.
00:15:49.21\00:15:50.75
But some more physical reactions
00:15:50.78\00:15:52.21
that we experience would be,
00:15:52.25\00:15:53.95
we even have a
reduction of vision,
00:15:53.98\00:15:55.58
our eyesight might
just really wing out on us,
00:15:55.62\00:15:59.59
will have headaches and
stomach aches, chest pain.
00:15:59.62\00:16:02.76
I had such deep chest pain,
there's almost a fear like,
00:16:02.79\00:16:06.49
am I having a heart attack.
00:16:06.53\00:16:09.23
There will be
muscle pain and it just...
00:16:09.26\00:16:11.70
All top to bottom
body aching, fatigue,
00:16:11.73\00:16:17.37
disruption in sleep habits.
00:16:17.41\00:16:20.34
A definitely, disruption
in our digestive system,
00:16:20.38\00:16:24.15
craving those foods that
you might not normally eat
00:16:24.18\00:16:26.85
or losing one's appetite
altogether and not eating
00:16:26.88\00:16:30.15
and maintaining enough calories
to live in a healthy way.
00:16:30.19\00:16:34.36
So it can go both
directions, mental confusion,
00:16:34.39\00:16:40.26
our mortician encouraged us,
00:16:40.30\00:16:43.63
"Please don't drive
for a couple of weeks"
00:16:43.67\00:16:47.24
and we, kind of,
looked at him, like,
00:16:47.27\00:16:49.50
"Oh, okay" and
didn't heed his advice
00:16:49.54\00:16:54.61
and the day after
our son's funeral,
00:16:54.64\00:16:56.48
we were delivering
the funeral flowers
00:16:56.51\00:16:59.15
that did not set
well with me in my home.
00:16:59.18\00:17:02.98
I wanted my son in my
home, not these flowers...
00:17:03.02\00:17:05.52
Yes.
00:17:05.55\00:17:06.89
And so I needed to
get the flowers out
00:17:06.92\00:17:09.79
and so not...
00:17:09.82\00:17:11.16
we didn't want
to throw them away,
00:17:11.19\00:17:12.53
so we put them in vases
and we're gonna take them
00:17:12.56\00:17:14.70
to convalescent home,
so folks could enjoy them.
00:17:14.73\00:17:18.40
Driving across town, to get
to the local convalescent home,
00:17:18.43\00:17:21.87
we found ourselves lost.
00:17:21.90\00:17:25.31
So that mental
confusion is definitely there,
00:17:25.34\00:17:28.08
you can't focus,
there's just been so much trauma
00:17:28.11\00:17:31.98
that the mind has
a very difficult time
00:17:32.01\00:17:34.85
processing just
normal activities.
00:17:34.88\00:17:37.22
And praise God you didn't say...
00:17:37.25\00:17:38.62
I was expecting you
to say you ran in...
00:17:38.65\00:17:40.42
Accident, no, thankfully
we weren't in an accident
00:17:40.46\00:17:43.06
but that could occur
00:17:43.09\00:17:44.43
and then you have
only pain upon pain,
00:17:44.46\00:17:46.39
so rather than, you
know, bucking it up and going,
00:17:46.43\00:17:50.47
"Okay, I'm gonna
work this through,
00:17:50.50\00:17:51.83
I'm gonna just do this and..."
00:17:51.87\00:17:53.60
Let's not.
00:17:53.64\00:17:55.10
Let's honor what's
happening to our bodies
00:17:55.14\00:17:59.77
because someone we
love deeply is not with us.
00:17:59.81\00:18:02.98
That's huge.
00:18:03.01\00:18:05.51
I just want to bring
this question up somewhere...
00:18:05.55\00:18:08.28
we're, kind of, flying by
the seat of our pants here
00:18:08.32\00:18:10.72
but and it may
not be the right time,
00:18:10.75\00:18:15.79
but I'd like to address this
before the end of this program.
00:18:15.82\00:18:19.63
As Christians, sometimes
00:18:19.66\00:18:21.50
we're made to feel
guilty for grieving.
00:18:21.53\00:18:24.63
It is that, you know, "Well,
don't you have faith in God
00:18:24.67\00:18:28.67
and, you know, God's will
and God's plan for your life,"
00:18:28.70\00:18:32.87
so there are a lot of
people, I'm just so glad
00:18:32.91\00:18:35.61
you're going through
what these symptoms are
00:18:35.64\00:18:38.01
because sometimes we feel guilty
00:18:38.05\00:18:40.95
for experiencing these things.
00:18:40.98\00:18:43.12
We feel guilty when
we get to that point of,
00:18:43.15\00:18:45.45
especially, if
you're breaking into tears
00:18:45.49\00:18:47.56
in front of
somebody, you see people
00:18:47.59\00:18:49.19
who are just
trying to be so strong
00:18:49.22\00:18:51.89
and, you know, well,
we give God all glory.
00:18:51.93\00:18:56.73
I'd like to talk about the
fact that it's okay to grieve.
00:18:56.77\00:19:02.40
You have to grieve, so.
00:19:02.44\00:19:04.47
Well, I think, having said that,
00:19:04.51\00:19:06.21
just regain the reminder,
00:19:06.24\00:19:08.14
Jesus is our
example in all things.
00:19:08.18\00:19:09.91
Yes.
00:19:09.94\00:19:11.28
He was a man acquainted
with sorrows and grief.
00:19:11.31\00:19:14.68
Full of sorrow and
acquainted with grief.
00:19:14.72\00:19:17.32
And what we don't see
in actual biblical story,
00:19:17.35\00:19:20.16
of how he mourned
or how he grieved.
00:19:20.19\00:19:22.72
We do see that he did
cry, he did weep uncontrollably
00:19:22.76\00:19:27.36
over the loss of
his people of Israel.
00:19:27.40\00:19:32.13
So would he not
give us permission...
00:19:32.17\00:19:34.54
And I think we...
00:19:34.57\00:19:35.90
To weep over someone.
00:19:35.94\00:19:37.27
And we see also in
the garden of Gethsemane,
00:19:37.31\00:19:41.84
I mean, he was in a depression,
00:19:41.88\00:19:44.61
even in the
garden of Gethsemane,
00:19:44.65\00:19:46.01
he was so oppressed
and what was coming that,
00:19:46.05\00:19:49.75
you know, he cried vehemently,
00:19:49.78\00:19:52.72
with the loud cries
he was addressing God
00:19:52.75\00:19:55.66
and he actually
sweat drops of blood.
00:19:55.69\00:19:58.86
So we do see he was
familiar with grief,
00:19:58.89\00:20:02.26
he does understand.
00:20:02.30\00:20:03.83
He knows the
anguish of a broken heart.
00:20:03.87\00:20:05.60
And that's what
we're experiencing
00:20:05.63\00:20:07.27
and I'm glad you mentioned tears
00:20:07.30\00:20:08.80
because that's the last
physiological experience
00:20:08.84\00:20:13.78
that I wanted to hit on, is
that our tears are the honor
00:20:13.81\00:20:20.15
we give to the one we love.
00:20:20.18\00:20:24.12
And today's medical
science is doing research
00:20:24.15\00:20:27.12
about the chemical
composition of tears
00:20:27.16\00:20:30.36
and when we tear out of joy,
00:20:30.39\00:20:32.56
the chemical
composition looks very different
00:20:32.59\00:20:35.03
than when we tear
out of bereavement.
00:20:35.06\00:20:36.87
That's interesting.
00:20:36.90\00:20:38.23
And when we tear
out of bereavement,
00:20:38.27\00:20:39.63
those tears
actually contain body toxins.
00:20:39.67\00:20:44.77
So there is healing in our tears
00:20:44.81\00:20:46.84
and sadly our
culture does not provide,
00:20:46.88\00:20:50.75
particularly for men to
have that freedom to weep
00:20:50.78\00:20:55.15
and to cry, we
are, kind of, told that,
00:20:55.18\00:20:59.22
you know, we have to be
strong and strong in the Lord
00:20:59.25\00:21:01.92
and show everybody, you know,
your faith and how good it is.
00:21:01.96\00:21:04.73
Well, my faith
allows me to grieve.
00:21:04.76\00:21:08.70
I want to grieve though in a way
00:21:08.73\00:21:11.33
that is in a healthy way.
00:21:11.37\00:21:13.80
A way that is
directed by my Great Physician
00:21:13.84\00:21:17.51
who is in the process
of healing my broken heart.
00:21:17.54\00:21:20.88
And that we have freedom to do,
00:21:20.91\00:21:22.98
so should anybody
suggest to someone, you know,
00:21:23.01\00:21:26.11
don't grieve,
00:21:26.15\00:21:27.48
you shouldn't
grieve over this loss.
00:21:27.52\00:21:29.68
You can look at
them and say, you know,
00:21:29.72\00:21:31.12
my Savior knows my broken heart
00:21:31.15\00:21:33.62
and he's given me
permission to grieve.
00:21:33.66\00:21:36.56
And shame on people who
say those kind of things
00:21:36.59\00:21:39.69
but we're gonna address
that in an another program.
00:21:39.73\00:21:41.40
They just don't
know, they don't know
00:21:41.43\00:21:42.90
but our emotional grief
00:21:42.93\00:21:44.27
will take on many different
aspects of the emotional life
00:21:44.30\00:21:47.77
and that includes, 'shock,'
00:21:47.80\00:21:50.31
that's definitely,
kind of, a first deal
00:21:50.34\00:21:53.17
but with that shock
often comes a sense of relief
00:21:53.21\00:21:56.58
and some people feel
guilty for feeling relief,
00:21:56.61\00:21:59.25
you know, I'll explain,
00:21:59.28\00:22:01.02
you know, if someone
has been by the bed side
00:22:01.05\00:22:03.69
of a terminal loved one
00:22:03.72\00:22:06.72
or in the process
of the long good bye
00:22:06.76\00:22:08.59
as in alzheimer's.
00:22:08.62\00:22:11.89
There is overwhelming relief
00:22:11.93\00:22:14.26
that that loved one no longer
is suffering or is in pain
00:22:14.30\00:22:19.73
but because we
don't have enough support
00:22:19.77\00:22:22.50
in our grief, we
sometimes withdraw and say,
00:22:22.54\00:22:26.11
"Oh, I shouldn't feel that way.
00:22:26.14\00:22:27.78
I shouldn't feel that relief"
00:22:27.81\00:22:29.54
and so it's good to know
that if we have that relief,
00:22:29.58\00:22:34.78
that's natural, that's normal,
it's necessary, it's grieving.
00:22:34.82\00:22:39.95
There will be fear,
there can be anger and despair,
00:22:39.99\00:22:43.63
there can be depression,
00:22:43.66\00:22:45.63
blame is another
experience and guilt and regret.
00:22:45.66\00:22:50.20
We can blame ourselves, we
can blame the medical staff,
00:22:50.23\00:22:53.34
we can blame a drunk driver
and we can hold on to that
00:22:53.37\00:22:57.71
and in anyone of these places
emotionally, we can get stuck.
00:22:57.74\00:23:04.08
And then we know, "Oh,
this isn't healthy grieving.
00:23:04.11\00:23:07.52
I'm stuck here," but sometimes
if we're not even aware
00:23:07.55\00:23:11.95
that we're blaming
00:23:11.99\00:23:13.32
or that we're just
over burdened with guilt,
00:23:13.36\00:23:15.72
we can stay in
that for a lifetime
00:23:15.76\00:23:17.89
and it will ruin our lives
and relationships around us.
00:23:17.93\00:23:22.90
Sometimes there's anxiety,
there certainly is sadness
00:23:22.93\00:23:25.97
and just an overall
malice or pain emotionally,
00:23:26.00\00:23:30.21
then finally in
the grieving journey,
00:23:30.24\00:23:32.67
there becomes to
have a readjustment
00:23:32.71\00:23:36.51
and then acceptance
00:23:36.54\00:23:39.05
and we find
ourselves on the other side
00:23:39.08\00:23:41.68
of that deep dark
valley of the shadow of death.
00:23:41.72\00:23:45.85
And then something...
00:23:45.89\00:23:48.16
My aunt told me, she
was married for 55 years
00:23:48.19\00:23:51.26
and she did watch my
uncle, died a lingering,
00:23:51.29\00:23:55.80
it was over a
period of several years
00:23:55.83\00:23:57.57
that he was bed-ridden.
00:23:57.60\00:23:59.77
But when he died, she
told me a few years later,
00:23:59.80\00:24:05.67
we have had her
out here at our home.
00:24:05.71\00:24:08.14
And she said, you know, I
said, "How are you doing?"
00:24:08.18\00:24:11.88
'Cause she's
always such a strong woman
00:24:11.91\00:24:13.98
and she's faced a lot of grief,
00:24:14.02\00:24:16.05
I've mentioned to
you in the green room,
00:24:16.08\00:24:18.22
her son was four years
old and died of a sudden...
00:24:18.25\00:24:23.32
He had meningitis and
he died on Christmas day.
00:24:23.36\00:24:27.60
Well, when my uncle
died, you know, she always...
00:24:27.63\00:24:30.97
When you talk to
her, she'd sound so strong
00:24:31.00\00:24:33.13
but she told me
that it took a year
00:24:33.17\00:24:37.44
to get her feet under her
00:24:37.47\00:24:39.37
and another year to
walk without wobbling.
00:24:39.41\00:24:44.78
That's nicely said.
00:24:44.81\00:24:46.15
And I've shared
that with a lot of people
00:24:46.18\00:24:48.68
who've lost a spouse
and everyone identifies.
00:24:48.72\00:24:51.59
But the point is that,
00:24:51.62\00:24:53.32
that first year she would watch,
00:24:53.36\00:24:54.86
they traveled a lot,
did lot of family vacations
00:24:54.89\00:24:58.63
and she said she
would watch the DVDs
00:24:58.66\00:25:03.00
or the film that they had
taken during these vacations
00:25:03.03\00:25:05.77
and she would weep
sometimes uncontrollably.
00:25:05.80\00:25:09.34
And after that
period, when you...
00:25:09.37\00:25:11.14
As you said,
you cross the chasm,
00:25:11.17\00:25:13.81
then suddenly it's like
a curtain was drawn back
00:25:13.84\00:25:19.41
and on these memories,
00:25:19.45\00:25:21.92
it was like this,
grief was drawn back.
00:25:21.95\00:25:24.55
Suddenly, she's
finding joy from watching them.
00:25:24.59\00:25:28.52
You know, because they
became comforting to her,
00:25:28.56\00:25:30.99
after she crossed the chasm.
00:25:31.03\00:25:33.33
But it can effect us
spiritually, can it not?
00:25:33.36\00:25:36.20
It does, it does
and one of the things
00:25:36.23\00:25:38.33
that often occurs
for a follower of Jesus,
00:25:38.37\00:25:42.44
for someone who
loves God and trusts God.
00:25:42.47\00:25:45.34
There can be a faith crisis
00:25:45.37\00:25:48.04
and that crisis of
faith can feel like,
00:25:48.08\00:25:53.28
the sure ground beneath her feet
00:25:53.31\00:25:55.72
has just opened up and
we're just free falling
00:25:55.75\00:25:59.85
and there are deep questions
that we have of God, 'Why?
00:25:59.89\00:26:04.33
God, did this happen to me?
00:26:04.36\00:26:06.70
And how am I gonna
live through this pain
00:26:06.73\00:26:09.76
that is seemingly
unbearable this moment?
00:26:09.80\00:26:13.10
I can't even think that
I can get through this day.
00:26:13.13\00:26:16.40
And where were you, God,
when these things occurred?'
00:26:16.44\00:26:21.61
and so, I would just
encourage all viewers
00:26:21.64\00:26:26.92
to stay with God in the process.
00:26:26.95\00:26:29.32
Let Him reveal himself to you,
00:26:29.35\00:26:32.82
He knows best when
our hearts are ready
00:26:32.85\00:26:35.46
and able to hear the
answers to the questions,
00:26:35.49\00:26:39.49
the screaming
questions we have for Him.
00:26:39.53\00:26:42.20
And one example
of that for me is,
00:26:42.23\00:26:44.17
when my daughter was
about two, she was asking me,
00:26:44.20\00:26:47.64
"Mommy, where does hair come?
00:26:47.67\00:26:51.74
How's our hair made?"
00:26:51.77\00:26:54.21
And I laughed at
myself and thought,
00:26:54.24\00:26:58.21
this is a prime
example of the questions
00:26:58.25\00:27:02.15
we rail at God,
that we are not mentally,
00:27:02.18\00:27:06.92
spiritually ready
to receive His answers.
00:27:06.96\00:27:09.49
Yes.
00:27:09.52\00:27:10.86
I couldn't explain to
my two year old daughter
00:27:10.89\00:27:12.63
where hair was from, could I?
00:27:12.66\00:27:14.93
She didn't have the
background in chemistry
00:27:14.96\00:27:17.37
to know and understand
00:27:17.40\00:27:18.73
that they're dead protein cells.
00:27:18.77\00:27:20.40
And we do that with God
and so if we can just sit back
00:27:20.44\00:27:23.30
and say, "Okay, God,
these are all my questions
00:27:23.34\00:27:25.51
and you're chest is big
enough for me to beat on you
00:27:25.54\00:27:27.68
as long as I need
to, it doesn't offend you
00:27:27.71\00:27:30.35
and you're still
with me in my pain."
00:27:30.38\00:27:32.15
Amen and I cannot believe
our time is already gone,
00:27:32.18\00:27:34.72
you're going to come back.
00:27:34.75\00:27:36.08
What are we gonna be
speaking about next week?
00:27:36.12\00:27:37.45
We're gonna start
with the spiral of grief,
00:27:37.49\00:27:40.32
spiral of bereavement
00:27:40.36\00:27:41.86
and then what
forgiveness has to do with that.
00:27:41.89\00:27:45.26
Amen.
00:27:45.29\00:27:46.63
Thank you so much for being here
00:27:46.66\00:27:48.00
and I wanted to
just add real quickly.
00:27:48.03\00:27:49.56
Sometimes, it's not
so much of free fall,
00:27:49.60\00:27:52.57
as some people in
their grieving process
00:27:52.60\00:27:55.20
become apathetic, they just,
they don't feel like studying,
00:27:55.24\00:27:59.21
they don't feel like reading
because it is something that...
00:27:59.24\00:28:02.88
It's a depression
is really what it is,
00:28:02.91\00:28:05.18
so there's many
different things to experience
00:28:05.21\00:28:08.62
and we're gonna
be speaking next week
00:28:08.65\00:28:10.79
again with Karen Nicola
and we thank you for joining us
00:28:10.82\00:28:14.52
and hope you will
tune in next week,
00:28:14.56\00:28:16.73
as we go through
this spiral of grief
00:28:16.76\00:28:19.39
and get a little
deeper into this topic.
00:28:19.43\00:28:21.70
Thank you.
00:28:21.73\00:28:23.06