Something that you can count on
00:00:01.36\00:00:02.70
is that if you
confess your sins,
00:00:02.73\00:00:05.03
God is faithful
to forgive your sins
00:00:05.07\00:00:07.70
but more than that,
00:00:07.74\00:00:09.30
He is faithful to cleanse
you of all unrighteousness.
00:00:09.34\00:00:13.58
Please join us today
on Issues and Answers,
00:00:13.61\00:00:16.08
as we continue in
the 12 step program
00:00:16.11\00:00:20.52
of Alcoholics Anonymous.
00:00:20.55\00:00:22.45
Hello, I am Shelley Quinn,
00:00:54.68\00:00:56.02
and once again we welcome
you to Issues and Answers.
00:00:56.05\00:00:59.95
We have been doing
something a little unordinary,
00:00:59.99\00:01:04.23
I guess you could say.
00:01:04.26\00:01:05.59
We have been
talking about the program,
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the 12 step recovery
program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
00:01:08.73\00:01:12.30
And our special guest,
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this is why it's unordinary
has been in the shadow
00:01:13.70\00:01:16.60
to basically to
preserve his anonymity
00:01:16.64\00:01:22.08
which is the tradition
of Alcoholics Anonymous.
00:01:22.11\00:01:25.85
So what we talked about so
far is the first four steps
00:01:25.88\00:01:31.45
which are to admit you
are powerless over alcohol,
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that your lives had
become unmanageable,
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to come to believe
that there is a power
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greater than yourself
that can restore sanity
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and that make a
decision to turn over the will
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and the lives
to the care of God.
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And then to make a searching
and fearless moral inventory.
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Those are the first four steps.
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Let me introduce you once again
00:02:02.28\00:02:04.09
in a kind of a quasi
fashion to our special guest.
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Bob, thank you so
much for coming here,
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for sharing your testimony,
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and for sharing the
power of these 12 steps.
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I am happy to be
here. Thanks, Shelley.
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Without further ado, let me
just sum it up by saying this,
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for those who may have
missed the first few programs.
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You were in the throes
of alcoholism for 11 years.
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You hit bottom, your bottom
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when you shoveled
yourself down into a hole
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and the day you
laid down your shovel,
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or lay that down is the day
that God can reach out to you.
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You finally were out of denial,
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you confessed that
''Yes, I am an alcoholic,''
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and then you had
an encounter with God.
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Now let's see,
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you have been
sober for 29 years.
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26 years.
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26 years, I
should know that by now.
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So let's continue on
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once you got into
that point of making
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this moral inventory.
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What's the next step?
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The next step, the
concept is confession,
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and the way Alcoholics
Anonymous works it is,
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we admitted to God to ourselves
and to another human being,
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the exact nature of our wrongs.
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Now, after writing this
long list of resentments,
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looking at each
resentment carefully,
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finding out how it affected me.
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What my part in it was.
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Also a list of fears,
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and why I have those
fears and the sex inventory,
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and how my selfish behavior
had harmed other people,
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and what I should
have done instead.
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This prepares me to
let go of all of that,
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to let go of the past
by confessing my faults
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to another human being,
confessing my sins to God.
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AA has no trouble with language
that's used in Christianity.
00:04:00.67\00:04:04.57
In fact we call them
defects of character,
00:04:04.61\00:04:07.54
we call them sins,
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we call then an
index of maladjustments
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is in the other word
that some people want to use.
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It's interesting that
it doesn't really matter
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what it is,
basically it's a list of things
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that are wrong with us.
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How we have harmed other people
and in turn harmed ourselves,
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and we need to lay down
this burden of guilt somewhere.
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And AA says it's important
to deal with another person
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because another
person can ask questions,
00:04:33.70\00:04:36.84
another person
can draw our attention
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to the details of maybe
we miss about ourselves,
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and that we need to discuss
this with another human being.
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Now obviously needs
to be somebody we trust.
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And in my case, I
have done several of this
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and I have always chosen
my AA sponsor who is a mentor,
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who is my best friend in AA.
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Who does not tell me what to do,
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but walks this journey
on a parallel path with me
00:05:00.56\00:05:04.17
and shares the journey
with me, shares his experiences,
00:05:04.20\00:05:07.20
his strength,
and his hope with me.
00:05:07.24\00:05:09.17
Logically for
me, it was the person
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that I chose to be my confidant,
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to hear the worst
things about my life,
00:05:14.48\00:05:18.51
and it took a leap of
faith and a lot of trust.
00:05:18.55\00:05:21.52
Now, trust isn't something
we give each other in AA.
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Trust is something
we earn from each other.
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And this man
had earned my trust,
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and it's
important that I trust him,
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because I'm gonna have
to tell him some things
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that I don't want anybody
else in the world to know.
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And in this case what we
did was we had afternoon off.
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He had an afternoon off,
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he invited me over to his house,
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it was summertime,
we sat in his backyard
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and he put out
three lawn chairs.
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While two of them
were across from me so,
00:05:48.74\00:05:51.05
automatically as
we got comfortable,
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I put my feet up
on the third chair.
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And he says, ''I
wouldn't do that if I were you.'
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' I said, ''Oh, I am sorry.
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I don't meant to
mess up your chair.'
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' He goes, ''No,
it's a lawn chair,
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I don't care about that.'
00:06:01.32\00:06:02.92
' And I looked to him
kind of puzzle, then he says,
00:06:02.96\00:06:05.46
''That chair is for God.'
00:06:05.49\00:06:07.50
' And I thought, ''Oh, brother
really this is kind of lame.'
00:06:07.53\00:06:11.57
' But what happened, Shelley,
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is as I went through
the more difficult things,
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there was always that temptation
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to not quite tell all the truth.
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To gloss over a few things,
to leave a few things out
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and I'm telling you every time
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I caught myself being
tempted to do just that,
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I was staring at that chair.
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And I knew I could
not lie to this man
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in the presence of God.
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So, he was using the
chair as a visual aid
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just to remind you
of the presence of God.
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And, it worked, absolutely.
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In fact I do that with
all of my sponsees today,
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and they all
have the same story.
00:06:45.27\00:06:46.63
It's amazing how well
that tool works to remind us,
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that we aren't just
telling another human being,
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we're really speaking
in the presence of God.
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And it's pretty hard
to lie or omit things
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when you are
committed to doing that,
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and you know
that God is present.
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Amen.
00:07:02.32\00:07:03.65
So, it got down to a few things
00:07:03.69\00:07:07.02
I just struggled and I
could hardly bring myself
00:07:07.06\00:07:10.83
to tell my sponsor
about a couple of things
00:07:10.86\00:07:14.10
in my life that I
was just mortified.
00:07:14.13\00:07:17.53
And he waded me
out for quite a while,
00:07:17.57\00:07:21.40
and then all of a
sudden he began to speak
00:07:21.44\00:07:23.87
and he says, ''You know,
00:07:23.91\00:07:25.24
the hardest stuff for
me to tell my sponsor,
00:07:25.27\00:07:27.54
when I did my fifth step was,"
00:07:27.58\00:07:29.48
and then he launched into
the worst things on his list.
00:07:29.51\00:07:34.95
And my mouth hung
open because here is a man,
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freely admitting to me things
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that nobody would
tell anybody else.
00:07:40.59\00:07:43.39
And because of his courage,
00:07:43.43\00:07:45.13
suddenly I had
courage to tell him.
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Yes.
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And what I didn't know
then, but I definitely know now
00:07:48.40\00:07:51.37
is that once
those secrets are out,
00:07:51.40\00:07:54.10
once those horrible things
come to see the light of day,
00:07:54.14\00:07:58.27
they don't own me anymore.
00:07:58.31\00:08:01.04
I realize this is who I was,
00:08:01.08\00:08:03.18
this is what
happened in my life,
00:08:03.21\00:08:05.15
this is not who I am today.
00:08:05.18\00:08:06.61
See, I believe
with all of my heart,
00:08:06.65\00:08:09.62
it is cathartic, but
here is why, once it's out,
00:08:09.65\00:08:13.46
Satan's lost his power over you
00:08:13.49\00:08:15.52
because he is trying to
rob you of your identity
00:08:15.56\00:08:17.99
of who you are,
00:08:18.03\00:08:19.36
or who you can
be in Christ Jesus.
00:08:19.39\00:08:21.33
And as long as you keep
those secrets in there, he...
00:08:21.36\00:08:25.63
You know, there is that voice
that's constantly coming up
00:08:25.67\00:08:28.20
and telling you about them
00:08:28.24\00:08:29.57
but once they are
out, healing begins.
00:08:29.60\00:08:32.14
Those things were things
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that if I ever even
remotely thought of them,
00:08:33.54\00:08:36.38
I would be driven to drink.
00:08:36.41\00:08:38.38
Today, what I've
seen and experienced
00:08:38.41\00:08:41.38
and what I've used
exactly like he did.
00:08:41.42\00:08:45.19
As those are
tools to reach people
00:08:45.22\00:08:47.16
sometimes in those
secret places that they...
00:08:47.19\00:08:50.73
that you just can't get through.
00:08:50.76\00:08:53.09
I couldn't get
through on my own.
00:08:53.13\00:08:55.30
I am all too willing
00:08:55.33\00:08:56.67
to bring those out
of their hiding places,
00:08:56.70\00:08:58.90
anytime I realize
00:08:58.93\00:09:00.97
that they can be
useful to help that person.
00:09:01.00\00:09:03.20
You are using them
as a tool for ministry.
00:09:03.24\00:09:04.57
Exactly, exactly.
00:09:04.61\00:09:05.94
And I don't freely share them,
00:09:05.97\00:09:08.44
in meetings I
certainly don't share them.
00:09:08.48\00:09:10.85
I don't even share
them with groups of people.
00:09:10.88\00:09:13.05
But one-on-one,
00:09:13.08\00:09:14.42
when I feel the
impression from the Holy Spirit
00:09:14.45\00:09:17.25
to bring up one of those things.
00:09:17.29\00:09:18.62
Sometimes I'm not even sure why,
00:09:18.65\00:09:21.26
but I can tell
you from experience
00:09:21.29\00:09:22.72
that every time I felt impressed
00:09:22.76\00:09:25.43
to share something
from that special box
00:09:25.46\00:09:30.93
of where I used to be,
from the shame, and the guilt,
00:09:30.97\00:09:33.94
and the remorse
and all those things.
00:09:33.97\00:09:35.64
When I pull one of those out
and share them with somebody,
00:09:35.67\00:09:39.14
invariably it has been somebody
that needed to hear that,
00:09:39.17\00:09:43.35
that opens up a
whole new level of honesty
00:09:43.38\00:09:46.88
for that person
to be able to share
00:09:46.92\00:09:49.55
many times the exact
same thing in their life.
00:09:49.58\00:09:53.42
So step five is,
00:09:53.46\00:09:55.39
you have a wound that's festered
00:09:55.42\00:09:57.53
maybe for
years, it scabbed over.
00:09:57.56\00:10:00.03
And essentially what this is,
00:10:00.06\00:10:01.53
is you are
scraping off that scab,
00:10:01.56\00:10:03.70
so that you can
let all of the...
00:10:03.73\00:10:07.64
We'll say debris,
all of the infection out.
00:10:07.67\00:10:11.37
Now, once you have confessed
00:10:11.41\00:10:15.44
this to someone else and to God.
00:10:15.48\00:10:18.51
What's happening next?
00:10:18.55\00:10:20.08
Well, the first thing I
felt was a tremendous relief.
00:10:20.12\00:10:23.15
I can honestly say
00:10:23.18\00:10:24.52
I have never felt so
much relief in my life.
00:10:24.55\00:10:27.32
I was nervous
though and on the way home,
00:10:27.36\00:10:31.23
you know the
instruction are to go home
00:10:31.26\00:10:32.86
and spend the quiet hour
00:10:32.89\00:10:34.63
looking over the
first five steps,
00:10:34.66\00:10:36.87
making sure that
every stone was in place,
00:10:36.90\00:10:39.23
that there was enough cement
00:10:39.27\00:10:40.90
to make a solid
foundation out of this
00:10:40.94\00:10:43.07
because this is
what we're building on,
00:10:43.10\00:10:45.11
building a new life.
00:10:45.14\00:10:46.71
And if there was
something that I remembered
00:10:46.74\00:10:49.14
that I needed
to tell my sponsor,
00:10:49.18\00:10:51.78
he made himself available.
00:10:51.81\00:10:53.21
Call me or we'll get
back together tomorrow,
00:10:53.25\00:10:56.08
whatever you need to do if
you remember another thing.
00:10:56.12\00:10:59.19
Sometimes that happens
00:10:59.22\00:11:00.56
where something
truly escapes us,
00:11:00.59\00:11:03.53
but most of the time
we've done a good job,
00:11:03.56\00:11:06.56
we are ready to move on.
00:11:06.59\00:11:08.66
The next day though I
have to say, I was nervous.
00:11:08.70\00:11:11.37
I met him at a meeting
00:11:11.40\00:11:13.00
and I
deliberately went and sat down
00:11:13.03\00:11:15.17
next to him and
looked him in the eye,
00:11:15.20\00:11:17.04
and he turned around,
and the smile on his face,
00:11:17.07\00:11:20.28
and the joy in
his eyes to see me,
00:11:20.31\00:11:23.58
reassured me that what he
had said the day before he met.
00:11:23.61\00:11:27.92
The day before when I was
done, he hugged me and he says,
00:11:27.95\00:11:31.59
''I am so proud of you.'
00:11:31.62\00:11:33.82
' I could hear it in
his voice and the next day,
00:11:33.86\00:11:36.09
I could see it in his eyes.
00:11:36.12\00:11:37.63
I had to look that man
in the eye to make sure
00:11:37.66\00:11:40.50
that what he had
told me was true,
00:11:40.53\00:11:42.06
that it did not make
any difference to him,
00:11:42.10\00:11:44.83
what I had done,
what I had been through,
00:11:44.87\00:11:47.34
that he loved me
and he cared for me,
00:11:47.37\00:11:49.17
and he respected
me, and was proud of me.
00:11:49.20\00:11:51.17
So he was reflecting God's,
00:11:51.21\00:11:53.17
a God we love, his
unconditional love.
00:11:53.21\00:11:57.18
Sometimes people
confess their sins
00:11:57.21\00:11:59.45
and as the
scripture says in 1 John 1:9,
00:11:59.48\00:12:01.58
''If we confess ours sins,
00:12:01.62\00:12:02.95
he is faithful and
just to forgive us our sins
00:12:02.98\00:12:04.95
and cleanse us of
all unrighteousness.'
00:12:04.99\00:12:07.49
' Sometimes people confess,
00:12:07.52\00:12:09.72
but they don't
experience healing,
00:12:09.76\00:12:14.46
maybe they fall back
into that sin too quickly,
00:12:14.50\00:12:16.90
so what's the next step
in AA after this fifth step?
00:12:16.93\00:12:21.04
The sixth step is
we're entirely ready
00:12:21.07\00:12:24.57
to have God remove all
these defects of character.
00:12:24.61\00:12:27.54
Okay.
00:12:27.58\00:12:28.91
It's a preparation step,
00:12:28.94\00:12:30.51
the seventh step
is we humbly ask him
00:12:30.55\00:12:32.88
to remove our shortcomings.
00:12:32.91\00:12:34.68
But building up
to that seventh step,
00:12:34.72\00:12:37.22
we need to become
willing to have those removed.
00:12:37.25\00:12:40.39
Now my sponsor held
me back on step six,
00:12:40.42\00:12:43.02
because I was in a hurry.
00:12:43.06\00:12:45.13
The book Alcoholics Anonymous
00:12:45.16\00:12:47.00
has very little to
say about step six.
00:12:47.03\00:12:49.13
In fact in
subsequent books, Bill,
00:12:49.16\00:12:51.83
who wrote this book
00:12:51.87\00:12:53.64
spent a lot of time
talking about step six.
00:12:53.67\00:12:56.67
And for me it was a
case of having to understand
00:12:56.71\00:12:59.34
how deep those
character defects go.
00:12:59.37\00:13:02.41
You know, I like to think
of it as like pulling weeds.
00:13:02.44\00:13:06.31
Some weeds have roots
00:13:06.35\00:13:08.48
that intertwine with other weeds
00:13:08.52\00:13:11.05
and they are
very hard to pull out,
00:13:11.09\00:13:13.86
but the whole
concept of step six is that,
00:13:13.89\00:13:16.36
I am not in charge of
pulling the weeds in my life.
00:13:16.39\00:13:19.73
And naturally
that's the human tendency.
00:13:19.76\00:13:23.23
I have to say that after
that experiences in step five,
00:13:23.26\00:13:26.67
I thought I was free of
those character defects.
00:13:26.70\00:13:29.17
But I had indeed
only confessed them,
00:13:29.20\00:13:31.87
I had, nothing had
changed, and I had to realize
00:13:31.91\00:13:35.58
that if nothing
changes, nothing changes.
00:13:35.61\00:13:37.58
I can talk about it all I want.
00:13:37.61\00:13:39.71
But now it's time for action
00:13:39.75\00:13:41.92
and I did not
understand step six,
00:13:41.95\00:13:43.89
in fact I couldn't understand
00:13:43.92\00:13:46.25
why my sponsor
would not let me move on
00:13:46.29\00:13:48.29
to the seventh step.
00:13:48.32\00:13:49.66
He says, you don't
understand this step enough.
00:13:49.69\00:13:52.29
Well, I'll give you an example.
00:13:52.33\00:13:53.76
Every time we met, he
asked me if I had read,
00:13:53.80\00:13:57.03
reread what the book
Alcoholics Anonymous had said
00:13:57.07\00:14:00.74
and what our book 12 steps
00:14:00.77\00:14:02.77
and 12 traditions
had said about step six.
00:14:02.80\00:14:05.61
And I did it for
probably two or three weeks,
00:14:05.64\00:14:07.74
I would read the whole chapter
00:14:07.78\00:14:09.41
and read
whatever is in this book.
00:14:09.44\00:14:11.81
By the fourth or fifth week,
00:14:11.85\00:14:14.28
I was totally baffled as to
00:14:14.32\00:14:16.45
why he wouldn't let me move on.
00:14:16.48\00:14:18.19
And, he would ask me every week,
00:14:18.22\00:14:20.22
have you reread this,
and I started saying yes,
00:14:20.26\00:14:23.39
and suddenly I
realized you are lying to him
00:14:23.43\00:14:27.00
and it dawned on me
that the very character
00:14:27.03\00:14:29.26
defect of
dishonesty was still there,
00:14:29.30\00:14:32.10
and now I was
blatantly lying to my sponsor
00:14:32.13\00:14:34.57
because I didn't want
have to read it one more time.
00:14:34.60\00:14:37.57
So the character
defect was there.
00:14:37.61\00:14:39.57
Well, believe me,
00:14:39.61\00:14:40.94
all the character
defects were there.
00:14:40.98\00:14:43.31
Step four and five
had made me aware of them.
00:14:43.35\00:14:46.08
I had felt the relief
of letting them go verbally
00:14:46.11\00:14:49.85
to somebody and by
the way in my fifth step,
00:14:49.88\00:14:52.35
I also received that forgiveness
00:14:52.39\00:14:54.32
and I felt that
forgiveness from God.
00:14:54.36\00:14:56.62
And I am grateful
that my sponsor loves God
00:14:56.66\00:14:59.89
and was more than
able to help me see that.
00:14:59.93\00:15:03.63
But I had no idea
00:15:03.67\00:15:05.63
I was still
hanging on the things,
00:15:05.67\00:15:07.64
and it got worse and worse.
00:15:07.67\00:15:09.60
I tried controlling
my character defects.
00:15:09.64\00:15:11.94
You know, in the carnival
00:15:11.97\00:15:13.31
sometimes we'll have this
crazy game called whack 'em all
00:15:13.34\00:15:16.28
where the moles keep popping
up and you have a hammer,
00:15:16.31\00:15:18.35
and you keep hitting them down
and the more you hit them down,
00:15:18.38\00:15:21.45
the faster they
come and pretty soon
00:15:21.48\00:15:23.12
they're totally out of control,
00:15:23.15\00:15:24.89
that's the perfect
example of what happened to me.
00:15:24.92\00:15:27.82
It wasn't just dishonesty,
00:15:27.86\00:15:29.66
I was hurting people's feelings,
00:15:29.69\00:15:31.49
I was doing all these things
but now I am aware of them,
00:15:31.53\00:15:34.63
so I am
recognizing that everything
00:15:34.66\00:15:37.37
is getting more out of control.
00:15:37.40\00:15:38.73
So what did I do? I
tried to control them more.
00:15:38.77\00:15:41.64
And what happened?
00:15:41.67\00:15:43.00
Well, you know,
as my sponsor said,
00:15:43.04\00:15:45.31
''How did that
work out for you.'
00:15:45.34\00:15:46.98
' Not at all, I
was totally powerless.
00:15:47.01\00:15:50.08
Now, not just
over my alcoholism,
00:15:50.11\00:15:53.01
now I am
powerless over dishonesty,
00:15:53.05\00:15:55.75
I am powerless over fear,
00:15:55.78\00:15:57.52
I am powerless
over how I treat people,
00:15:57.55\00:15:59.82
my temper, my
self-righteous, anger,
00:15:59.85\00:16:02.92
all these things were
just coming out left and right,
00:16:02.96\00:16:05.83
and my
frustration level was rising.
00:16:05.86\00:16:08.86
It got so bad with some
of this character defects
00:16:08.90\00:16:11.67
that I felt like even though
00:16:11.70\00:16:13.84
I had told him
everything in my fifth step,
00:16:13.87\00:16:16.24
they were now new
things that I was embarrassed
00:16:16.27\00:16:19.37
that I didn't
wanted to tell him.
00:16:19.41\00:16:21.11
And I started keeping
those secrets to myself.
00:16:21.14\00:16:23.38
I was praying and
praying and praying
00:16:23.41\00:16:25.41
and nothing was happening,
00:16:25.45\00:16:27.12
and I was so
frustrated and angry
00:16:27.15\00:16:29.18
that one day I
pulled him out of a meeting,
00:16:29.22\00:16:31.22
pulled him out of a
meeting which never happened.
00:16:31.25\00:16:34.09
And we sat in his truck,
00:16:34.12\00:16:36.46
and I struggled to
tell him what was wrong.
00:16:36.49\00:16:39.49
And I told him some things,
00:16:39.53\00:16:40.90
but there were other things
I didn't wanted to talk about.
00:16:40.93\00:16:43.70
And finally,
00:16:43.73\00:16:45.90
finally I told him everything
00:16:45.93\00:16:48.67
that was going on in
my life and you know,
00:16:48.70\00:16:50.87
there was
nothing new to be honest,
00:16:50.91\00:16:53.38
but it was at a deeper
level and I was so embarrassed
00:16:53.41\00:16:56.44
because I thought
I was past all that.
00:16:56.48\00:16:58.98
I thought I wasn't
going to keep falling
00:16:59.01\00:17:01.15
into those same
things again and again.
00:17:01.18\00:17:03.45
And I was so embarrassed about
feeling like such a failure
00:17:03.49\00:17:07.89
that I couldn't even
look that man in the eye.
00:17:07.92\00:17:10.73
And I sat in his truck
and I remember it was snowing,
00:17:10.76\00:17:13.60
and I was just watching the snow
00:17:13.63\00:17:15.00
out of the
passenger side of the window.
00:17:15.03\00:17:18.37
And when I finally finish
00:17:18.40\00:17:20.50
telling all of
those things to him,
00:17:20.54\00:17:22.30
I had tears
running down my cheeks.
00:17:22.34\00:17:24.17
They weren't tears of self pity.
00:17:24.21\00:17:25.71
They were tears of frustration
and anger, anger at myself,
00:17:25.74\00:17:30.95
and finally I said, ''I
don't know what's wrong,
00:17:30.98\00:17:34.02
I don't know what's wrong,
I am worst than I ever was.'
00:17:34.05\00:17:37.75
' And he says,
''Bob, look at me.'
00:17:37.79\00:17:40.62
' And I didn't
want to look at him
00:17:40.66\00:17:41.99
with tears running down my face,
00:17:42.02\00:17:43.36
but I finally did, and you know
00:17:43.39\00:17:45.63
that man had tears
running down his cheeks.
00:17:45.66\00:17:48.80
He says, ''Please listen to me.
00:17:48.83\00:17:51.30
' He says, ''I want you
to take the day off tomorrow,
00:17:51.33\00:17:54.04
and I want you to stay home,
00:17:54.07\00:17:55.67
and I want you to read
that chapter one more time,
00:17:55.70\00:17:58.84
and then I want you to ask God
00:17:58.87\00:18:01.04
to remove your character defects
00:18:01.08\00:18:02.88
because if you don't,
you are going to drink,
00:18:02.91\00:18:06.05
because if you don't,
00:18:06.08\00:18:07.42
your misery will
increase to the point
00:18:07.45\00:18:09.12
where you're gonna seek
relief out of a bottle again.'
00:18:09.15\00:18:12.89
' And I took his
advice and I stayed home.
00:18:12.92\00:18:15.99
And I read that chapter
first thing in the morning
00:18:16.02\00:18:18.39
and then you know what I did,
00:18:18.43\00:18:19.96
I didn't pray, I didn't ask God,
00:18:20.00\00:18:22.26
there is a prayer in the book
00:18:22.30\00:18:24.27
where we ask Him to
remove our character defects,
00:18:24.30\00:18:27.77
and I didn't do it.
00:18:27.80\00:18:29.14
Instead, I
started doing housework,
00:18:29.17\00:18:32.34
I scrubbed the floors,
I scrubbed the kitchen,
00:18:32.37\00:18:36.14
I vacuumed everything.
00:18:36.18\00:18:38.75
I tore the house
apart. There you can control.
00:18:38.78\00:18:41.32
Exactly, and I realize that now
00:18:41.35\00:18:43.75
I was trying to clean myself up.
00:18:43.79\00:18:46.72
And it wasn't
working like it never works.
00:18:46.76\00:18:50.09
I couldn't clean the
insides of the cup of myself.
00:18:50.13\00:18:55.60
But I resisted, everything in me
00:18:55.63\00:18:58.10
was resisting
asking God to do this,
00:18:58.13\00:19:00.37
because I didn't feel worthy.
00:19:00.40\00:19:02.54
I didn't want to
let go off things
00:19:02.57\00:19:04.11
and that's what AA says
00:19:04.14\00:19:05.57
we find out very quickly
that there are some things
00:19:05.61\00:19:08.08
that we enjoy.
00:19:08.11\00:19:09.64
I enjoy self-righteous, anger,
00:19:09.68\00:19:12.11
feeling
superior to other people,
00:19:12.15\00:19:13.95
because I am right
and I know I am right.
00:19:13.98\00:19:16.72
I enjoy sarcastic remarks,
because it makes them feel bad,
00:19:16.75\00:19:21.36
and it makes me
feel good for an instant
00:19:21.39\00:19:23.26
and then it makes me feel worse.
00:19:23.29\00:19:24.93
On and on it went.
00:19:24.96\00:19:26.70
I have to tell you
there was a cat in my house,
00:19:26.73\00:19:29.16
I had this cat
before I ever got sober,
00:19:29.20\00:19:32.33
and the cat was terrified of me
00:19:32.37\00:19:34.97
because of the way I'm sure
00:19:35.00\00:19:36.74
I treated her when I was drunk,
00:19:36.77\00:19:38.34
I don't know that I
ever hurt her physically
00:19:38.37\00:19:40.98
but she was scared of me.
00:19:41.01\00:19:42.34
She lived under beds,
00:19:42.38\00:19:43.85
under the crouch in
a corner away from me,
00:19:43.88\00:19:46.65
I knew she lived with me
00:19:46.68\00:19:48.02
because I changed her litter box
00:19:48.05\00:19:49.48
and I gave her food and water,
00:19:49.52\00:19:51.22
but she wanted
nothing to do with,
00:19:51.25\00:19:52.75
she was very, very skittish.
00:19:52.79\00:19:54.52
And finally at
the end of the day,
00:19:54.56\00:19:57.29
I exhausted myself
and I lay on the couch
00:19:57.33\00:20:01.10
and I watched my aquarium
00:20:01.13\00:20:03.60
and I thought, I
have got to do this,
00:20:03.63\00:20:06.47
I have got to do this,
something has to change.
00:20:06.50\00:20:09.90
And I got on my knees
in front of my coffee table
00:20:09.94\00:20:13.48
and I put my book
out in front of me
00:20:13.51\00:20:15.54
and I turned to the page
00:20:15.58\00:20:17.45
that has the
seventh step prayer in it,
00:20:17.48\00:20:20.65
and I'll read to you quickly,
00:20:20.68\00:20:23.28
Shelley, if you don't mind.
00:20:23.32\00:20:25.22
It says...
00:20:25.25\00:20:26.59
''When ready, we
say something like this:
00:20:29.76\00:20:31.69
"My Creator, I am now willing
that you should have all of me,
00:20:31.73\00:20:35.83
good and bad.
00:20:35.86\00:20:37.30
I pray that you
now remove from me
00:20:37.33\00:20:39.60
every single defect of character
00:20:39.63\00:20:42.17
which stands in the
way of my usefulness
00:20:42.20\00:20:44.14
to you and my fellows.
00:20:44.17\00:20:46.17
Grant me strength, as I go out
from here, to do your bidding.
00:20:46.21\00:20:50.05
Amen."
00:20:50.08\00:20:51.41
I said this prayer, I
added my own words to it,
00:20:51.45\00:20:55.65
and I had my head in my hands
00:20:55.68\00:20:59.05
as I was leaning
over the coffee table.
00:20:59.09\00:21:02.16
And I stopped at
the end of my prayer
00:21:02.19\00:21:03.83
with my eyes close and I said,
00:21:03.86\00:21:06.19
''God, I don't feel anything.
00:21:06.23\00:21:08.96
Oh, God please help me believe
00:21:09.00\00:21:11.13
that I have done the right thing
00:21:11.17\00:21:12.50
even though I don't
feel any warm fuzzies.'
00:21:12.53\00:21:15.04
' Those were my
words, I said them out loud,
00:21:15.07\00:21:17.97
and at that very moment,
00:21:18.01\00:21:20.88
my cat jumped up
on the coffee table
00:21:20.91\00:21:25.48
and she was purring,
00:21:25.51\00:21:26.92
and I was aware
that she was there,
00:21:26.95\00:21:28.52
it didn't strike
me anything strange,
00:21:28.55\00:21:30.65
but when I said those words,
00:21:30.69\00:21:32.49
''Please help me believe
00:21:32.52\00:21:35.16
that I have done this right
00:21:35.19\00:21:36.66
even though I don't
feel any warm fuzzies.'
00:21:36.69\00:21:39.66
' That cat reached out
00:21:39.69\00:21:43.33
and put her paw on my cheek.
00:21:43.37\00:21:47.80
I have a hard time telling
that story about praying.
00:21:47.84\00:21:49.70
Oh, I know that is precious.
00:21:49.74\00:21:51.51
The only creature in that house
00:21:51.54\00:21:53.94
that could have assured
me of God's love for me,
00:21:53.98\00:21:56.48
and that he heard my prayer,
00:21:56.51\00:21:58.35
and that he had forgiven
me and he would complete
00:21:58.38\00:22:01.08
what he had promised
reached down and touched me.
00:22:01.12\00:22:04.45
And I got my
warm fuzzies that day.
00:22:04.49\00:22:07.19
And I will tell you, I
said, how does it happen,
00:22:07.22\00:22:11.49
how does it happen?
Yeah, that's the Lord.
00:22:11.53\00:22:14.50
You know,
Bobby, it occurs to me,
00:22:14.53\00:22:17.30
I teach on the
steps to repentance.
00:22:17.33\00:22:21.34
You know, there is the God...
00:22:21.37\00:22:22.97
First you have to
recognize your sin
00:22:23.00\00:22:24.87
and there is the
Godly sorrow for your sin,
00:22:24.91\00:22:27.38
and then you have
to confess your sin
00:22:27.41\00:22:29.91
and receive God's forgiveness,
00:22:29.94\00:22:31.95
but what steps six and seven
00:22:31.98\00:22:35.75
are is the true asking God.
00:22:35.78\00:22:39.39
You know, you
can confess your sins
00:22:39.42\00:22:41.36
and if you're not asking
for that gift of repentance,
00:22:41.39\00:22:45.53
if you're not
willing to be turned around
00:22:45.56\00:22:49.16
to forsake those things,
then it's just, you know,
00:22:49.20\00:22:52.67
you're back and forth,
back and forth, confessing,
00:22:52.70\00:22:55.17
and then doing it again,
confessing, and doing it again.
00:22:55.20\00:22:58.14
And it strikes me
everything you're saying,
00:22:58.17\00:23:01.34
I mean everything you're saying
is exactly in this teaching
00:23:01.38\00:23:06.51
that God gave me on this
00:23:06.55\00:23:07.88
as He was teaching me
the steps to repentance.
00:23:07.92\00:23:10.92
What I love about this
is it, it's so intentional.
00:23:10.95\00:23:15.36
Your sponsor held you back
until he knew you were ready
00:23:15.39\00:23:19.89
because we can, it's
kind of like, oh, okay,
00:23:19.93\00:23:22.93
I've got this far, what's next?
00:23:22.96\00:23:25.13
And, you know, we
just, we just go and we do.
00:23:25.17\00:23:28.37
But he held you
back until he was certain
00:23:28.40\00:23:32.81
that you were really
experiencing the pain
00:23:32.84\00:23:37.55
if you will or the true...
00:23:37.58\00:23:41.58
you were sorrow of this,
00:23:41.62\00:23:43.79
and you were really
ready to come to the Lord,
00:23:43.82\00:23:46.35
you've confessed it.
00:23:46.39\00:23:47.72
But now you were
ready to say Lord,
00:23:47.76\00:23:49.16
change me as
Acts 5:31 says that,
00:23:49.19\00:23:51.79
''He grants us repentance.'
00:23:51.83\00:23:54.20
' You're ready to say,
''Lord, grant me repentance.
00:23:54.23\00:23:56.43
I don't want to be
like this anymore.'
00:23:56.46\00:23:59.13
' So it's so intentional
and it's all very biblical.
00:23:59.17\00:24:04.97
There is...
00:24:05.01\00:24:07.08
There was that
moment when I realize
00:24:07.11\00:24:09.64
that my whole life
was changing right then.
00:24:09.68\00:24:12.75
There was a
different kind of peace
00:24:12.78\00:24:15.95
that fell over me that day.
00:24:15.98\00:24:17.32
Amen.
00:24:17.35\00:24:18.69
It wasn't that I understood
all the mechanics of, you know,
00:24:18.72\00:24:21.46
I speak to you know looking
back on 26 years of experience
00:24:21.49\00:24:25.73
with these steps, and
by the way these steps
00:24:25.76\00:24:28.16
are part of my daily life.
00:24:28.20\00:24:29.96
When I get caught up in
some mistake during the day,
00:24:30.00\00:24:34.27
I intentionally go
back to six and seven.
00:24:34.30\00:24:37.44
I ask God to make me
willing if I'm not, and if I am,
00:24:37.47\00:24:40.38
please don't leave
me in this condition.
00:24:40.41\00:24:43.14
Please Lord,
forgive me and change me.
00:24:43.18\00:24:47.02
There are no...
00:24:47.05\00:24:48.38
I mean even though
there were major changes
00:24:48.42\00:24:50.52
leading up to
step six and seven.
00:24:50.55\00:24:52.45
The major changes come
00:24:52.49\00:24:54.56
when we are
finally willing to let go.
00:24:54.59\00:24:56.96
You know, I had a good
friend that told me one time,
00:24:56.99\00:25:01.33
if I ask God to remove
my defects of character
00:25:01.36\00:25:04.10
and they don't go away,
00:25:04.13\00:25:05.67
there is either
something wrong with my prayer
00:25:05.70\00:25:08.30
or more likely something wrong
with my willingness to let go.
00:25:08.34\00:25:12.21
Its all about humility, is it?
00:25:12.24\00:25:13.58
It absolutely is about humility.
00:25:13.61\00:25:15.51
In fact the step says
humbly ask God to remove
00:25:15.54\00:25:19.65
these defects of
character, the shortcomings,
00:25:19.68\00:25:22.22
so obviously these steps have
everything to do with humility,
00:25:22.25\00:25:26.55
and humility is
not just groveling.
00:25:26.59\00:25:30.09
Humility and humiliation
are two very different words.
00:25:30.13\00:25:33.90
To be humbled by circumstance
00:25:33.93\00:25:37.77
or by the result of
our own pride for example
00:25:37.80\00:25:43.51
feels very different
than asking for humility
00:25:43.54\00:25:46.88
and then humbly walking with God
00:25:46.91\00:25:48.54
and offering myself to him.
00:25:48.58\00:25:50.45
I gave myself to him that day
00:25:50.48\00:25:52.21
to do whatever
he wanted with me.
00:25:52.25\00:25:53.95
I had no idea
where that would go.
00:25:53.98\00:25:56.48
But it didn't matter
00:25:56.52\00:25:57.85
because whatever it
was would be relieve
00:25:57.89\00:25:59.62
from where I was.
00:25:59.65\00:26:00.99
Amen. Amen.
00:26:01.02\00:26:02.36
So...
00:26:02.39\00:26:03.73
Bob, it has just
been such a blessing,
00:26:03.76\00:26:06.96
just to sit here
and listen to you
00:26:07.00\00:26:09.16
and 26 years of
experience with these steps,
00:26:09.20\00:26:12.10
knowing what God has
done, just want to thank you...
00:26:12.13\00:26:14.60
You're welcome.
00:26:14.64\00:26:15.97
For being here, and
we want you to come back
00:26:16.00\00:26:17.47
'cause you still
got more to share.
00:26:17.51\00:26:20.28
For those of you at home,
00:26:20.31\00:26:21.84
we want you to
know that you know,
00:26:21.88\00:26:25.95
what strikes me is
the humility of our Lord
00:26:25.98\00:26:30.99
and Savior Jesus Christ.
00:26:31.02\00:26:32.79
Well, of the Trinity,
00:26:32.82\00:26:35.16
when you think about
the humility of the Trinity,
00:26:35.19\00:26:39.26
the Holy Spirit does everything
to bring glory to Jesus Christ.
00:26:39.29\00:26:45.60
Christ did everything to
bring glory to the father
00:26:45.63\00:26:49.20
and then in turn the Father
gives all glory to the son,
00:26:49.24\00:26:54.54
so it is so amazing.
00:26:54.58\00:26:57.48
My husband taught me
something many years ago,
00:26:57.51\00:27:00.22
when we first got married.
00:27:00.25\00:27:01.85
And that is, you
know, we pray Lord,
00:27:01.88\00:27:04.45
increase your
faith, increase our faith,
00:27:04.49\00:27:07.66
increase this, increase that.
00:27:07.69\00:27:09.62
He daily prays,
Lord, increase my humility.
00:27:09.66\00:27:15.13
When we do come
humbly before the Lord,
00:27:15.16\00:27:18.90
confessing our sins,
00:27:18.93\00:27:21.44
we can count on Him to
forgive us of our sins.
00:27:21.47\00:27:24.57
But step six and seven
are to get to that point
00:27:24.61\00:27:29.04
where you're
really ready saying God,
00:27:29.08\00:27:31.61
I detest this in me.
00:27:31.65\00:27:34.48
It's like you're
developing his heart,
00:27:34.52\00:27:36.28
you see sin as He sees sin,
00:27:36.32\00:27:39.29
and you say I don't
want to be like this anymore.
00:27:39.32\00:27:42.66
Lord, grant me repentance,
00:27:42.69\00:27:44.93
I am humbling myself before You.
00:27:44.96\00:27:47.63
I am yielding control.
00:27:47.66\00:27:49.66
I am asking you humbly,
00:27:49.70\00:27:51.83
please remove
these shortcomings.
00:27:51.87\00:27:55.04
And you know what?
00:27:55.07\00:27:56.40
That's the part where it
says that God is ready willing
00:27:56.44\00:28:01.11
and able to cleanse
you of all unrighteousness.
00:28:01.14\00:28:06.21
That's the beauty, He
doesn't just forgive us,
00:28:06.25\00:28:08.98
He cleanses us of
all unrighteousness.
00:28:09.02\00:28:11.89
Well, I hope you're
enjoying these talks with Bob
00:28:11.92\00:28:14.16
as much as I am,
00:28:14.19\00:28:15.79
and we're going to
have him come back,
00:28:15.82\00:28:17.69
because there is
some still some more steps
00:28:17.73\00:28:19.39
that we need to go through.
00:28:19.43\00:28:20.93
Thanks for joining us.
00:28:20.96\00:28:22.30