Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Bob
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000460A
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00:01 Today on Issues and Answers,
00:02 we're going to be continuing our conversation on alcoholism 00:06 and the way out if you will. 00:08 But one of the most important steps 00:10 is you get to that point that it's, 00:12 "Not my will but yours be done." 00:15 Please join us today on Issues and Answers. 00:48 I am Shelley Quinn, 00:49 and we're so glad that you've joined us today 00:52 on Issues and Answers. 00:53 We're tackling a problem and the problem 00:55 is the issue is that of alcoholism. 00:59 And we're talking about people who have tried everything else 01:04 and nothing's working and a wonderful program called 01:07 Alcoholics Anonymous, a 12 step program. 01:10 Now our special guest today is in the shadow if you will. 01:15 We're keeping him out of the spotlight 01:17 to honor his anonymity. 01:20 He is a member of AA, he's not a spokesperson for AA, 01:23 because AA does not have spokespeople. 01:27 But we are here to learn a little bit more 01:31 about the program, 01:32 The 12 steps to Recovery from our special guest Bob. 01:36 Bob, let me just welcome you once again to the program, 01:40 it's so special that you're here. 01:42 Thank you for sharing your testimony. 01:44 We've heard how you were a very solid sick, 01:50 solidly sick can I say that? 01:52 A solidly sick individual alcoholic 01:57 in the throes of practicing your alcoholism for 11 years, 02:02 now after you went to began 02:06 go attending AA meetings. 02:08 You have now been sober for 26 years and counting. 02:14 You are a sponsor and you're an all around good guy, 02:18 you're a wonderful Christian man. 02:20 We talked last time about the first two steps 02:23 could you just briefly, you knew God, 02:26 but tell us those first two steps 02:28 and let's get into the third step of recovery. 02:31 Well, the first step 02:32 is we admitted we were powerless over alcohol 02:35 and that our lives had become unmanageable. 02:37 The second step, is we came to believe 02:40 that a power greater than ourselves 02:42 could restore us to sanity. 02:44 In transit in that step 02:46 is the idea that I am insane when it comes to alcohol, 02:51 I cannot think straight. 02:52 There is this little lie in my head that says, 02:54 "This time it will be different, 02:56 this time I will behave. 02:58 This time I won't get drunk. 02:59 This time," you know, and every alcoholic, 03:04 every addict of any addiction believes that lie. 03:08 In other words, it's not like you're saying today, you know, 03:11 you won't get drunk but it's like if you're saying, 03:14 "I'll drink and not get drunk," that's what you're saying, 03:16 I can practice my addiction but manage it. 03:20 I can manage it and the problem 03:22 with having to control something 03:23 is anything you can try to control 03:25 is out of control already. 03:26 Right. 03:28 And the illusion that every alcoholic 03:29 lives under or the delusion if you will is that somehow 03:34 I will find the miracle of self control at some point. 03:38 And because of the way my body 03:40 is when I ingest any amount of alcohol 03:42 into my body whatsoever. 03:44 My body takes over a compulsion to drink takes over, 03:48 my head screams and said stop, my body says, 03:51 "We're not stopping until we're done." 03:54 And so, 03:55 that model AA calls it an Allergy of the Body. 04:00 In other words, it's not truly analogy 04:02 the way we understand allergies and histamines 04:05 and all the other body functions 04:06 that make a true allergy, but the model works well. 04:09 In other words, every time you ingest alcohol, 04:12 there's a predictable reaction 04:16 and the reaction is your body demands more, 04:18 your head cannot control it and you drink 04:20 and you go through your whole drinking spree 04:23 and you come out of it remorseful, 04:25 feeling guilty and shamed 04:27 and then to relieve that guilt and shame 04:29 suddenly we start drinking again, 04:31 so it's a vicious cycle, 04:33 it just keeps going and going and going. 04:35 So that's how, you know, 04:37 I had to come to believe 04:38 that God could do something for me... 04:41 But now, Bobby, one time you did know God. 04:43 Yes. 04:44 You were a church grower, 04:46 you grew up in a Christian home 04:48 and we see so many people in the church 04:51 who are healed of alcoholism without going to AA. 04:56 Yes. 04:58 What is AA all about, what makes it different? 05:01 Why do some people get healed in church, you didn't. 05:03 Right. 05:04 'Cause you didn't, you said, 05:06 it was because you called on God 05:07 but you weren't ready to surrender. 05:09 Exactly. 05:10 So tell us a little bit more, 05:11 define the difference between AA and Church. 05:15 Well, AA has the same solution that church does. 05:18 Basically AA says, you know, 05:22 "There is one who has all power, 05:23 that one is God may you find him now." 05:26 In other words, in order to get past this ailment, 05:29 this disease, this malady, 05:32 I have to find a spiritual solution. 05:34 Most people get sober in church. 05:37 That's where people go to find God, 05:38 that's God's house 05:40 that's the logical place to look. 05:41 Right. 05:42 But then, there are those of us 05:44 who are particularly either stubborn or damaged 05:47 or run the show a little too long 05:50 and we have tried to come to church 05:52 and we have tried to get sober in church and it has failed us. 05:55 Why does it fail? 05:56 Why do we fail to connect with God in church? 05:59 In many cases that would be our pride, 06:01 it would be our resentments, 06:02 maybe somebody in church had hurt us. 06:05 Maybe it's the hypocrites in church. 06:06 Maybe it's the fact 06:08 that I'm not paying attention to what's going on in me, 06:10 I'm paying attention 06:11 to what's going on in somebody else. 06:12 Maybe I don't like the preacher. 06:14 Maybe I feel like I've tried every church, 06:16 every denomination and that didn't stop my drinking. 06:19 Those are the people that AA says, 06:22 "We have a solution for you. 06:24 We're going to strip away 06:26 all the so-called doctrines 06:29 of this denomination or that denomination." 06:31 We are going to bring it down 06:33 to a level that's so simple that anybody can find God. 06:36 And AA is not interested in becoming a monopoly, 06:40 AA says, "We're trying to help the people 06:42 who have found no help any other way. 06:45 There are people who stop drinking 06:47 and live normal lives by going to counseling. 06:50 There are people who use psychiatrists 06:52 and finally resolve whatever it is in their past that, 06:55 you know, cause them to drink. 06:57 Drinking is only a symptom of what's wrong with us. 06:59 It's not what's wrong with me, it's not that I drank too much. 07:03 The action is the fruit, 07:04 it's not the root of the problem. 07:06 Exactly, my problem, in AA we say, 07:09 our problem is that we are self-centered, 07:11 that we are running the show, 07:13 that we have no other God in our lives besides ourselves. 07:17 And whether you find God in church 07:19 or you find him somewhere else. 07:21 Some people actually find God in nature, God's second book. 07:25 Through nature they finally establish a contact with God. 07:29 Some people, many people, 07:31 I would say them the vast majority of alcoholics 07:33 and people who are addicted to any other addiction 07:36 find their solution in church and I want to make that clear. 07:41 AA has a membership, worldwide membership 07:44 estimated between two and four million. 07:46 There are many, many more millions of people in church 07:50 who are sober and clean because of the place 07:53 they found their connection with God was in church. 07:56 So I've heard you referred to AA 07:58 before as the last house on the block. 08:01 That's right. 08:02 In other words, if you've tried everything else and failed 08:06 and you're not getting over your alcoholic addiction 08:09 or you're not able to recover from this, 08:13 then AA is a great program. 08:16 So what is step three? 08:18 Step three is made a decision 08:20 to turn our will in our lives over to the care of God 08:23 as we understood Him. 08:25 Now this is a very formal step in AA. 08:28 AA says, "Think carefully before you do this, 08:31 do not take this casually." 08:33 You are going to be turning your will and your life 08:37 over to the care of something greater than you 08:41 who can restore you to sanity. 08:43 That's the reference back to the insanity of drinking. 08:47 This is a fearful step for many people, 08:50 when they come to this step in AA 08:51 especially those 08:52 who have just barely allowed God into their lives 08:57 by coming to believe that there is a God. 08:59 People that were raised 09:00 without any sort of concept of God 09:04 sometimes have a difficulty with this, 09:06 but believe it or not, the ones who have the bigger struggle 09:08 like I did with the step are the ones 09:11 who think they know God. 09:13 And the ones who have preconceived ideas 09:18 of what God is all about. 09:20 And it's interesting to me that those 09:23 that used to have some sort of faith 09:25 and then lost it are the ones 09:27 that tend to struggle the most with this step 09:29 because they think they've tried the way of faith 09:31 and tried the way of no faith and they found no answer. 09:35 Well suddenly AA is saying, 09:37 "Put aside everything you think you know, try this step." 09:42 AA also insists that we try to do this step 09:45 with another person with an understanding person. 09:48 For most of us in AA it turns out to be our AA sponsor 09:52 which is just another person who becomes our mentor 09:55 who walks this path with us. 09:59 In some ways would you say, 10:01 what I think of this accountability partner... 10:03 Sure. 10:05 Okay. Absolutely. 10:06 So your sponsor then is helping you 10:09 in watching to see if you really are turning over. 10:13 It's a process of yielding, 10:16 what we call in Christian circles often we say surrender. 10:19 Surrender 10:20 But it is one and of course, 10:23 the scripture that comes to my mind is Philippians 2:13, 10:26 "That it is God who works in you 10:29 both to will and to do his good pleasure." 10:33 And this is a step, I think I like 10:35 what I'm liking about the steps that we're hearing, 10:38 it's something every Christian 10:40 really actually has to go through, 10:42 so turning over how did, 10:45 how did your sponsor help you in learning 10:49 to let go and let God be in control. 10:53 Well, first let me tell you about 10:54 the process of step three. 10:56 Okay. 10:57 Step three is not just a mental admission 11:01 that God is now in control of my life. 11:03 Step three involves a very specific prayer 11:06 and I have my book Alcoholics Anonymous with me, 11:08 if you don't mind I will read it with you. 11:11 It says, "We were now at step three 11:13 and many of us said to our maker 11:15 as we understood Him. 11:17 God, I offer myself to thee to build with me 11:21 and to do with me is though wilt. 11:23 Relieve me of the bondage of self 11:26 that I may better do thy will. 11:28 Take away my difficulties 11:30 that victory over them may bear witness 11:33 to those I would help of thy power, 11:36 thy love and thy way of life. 11:38 May I do thy will always." 11:41 We pray this prayer with another person. 11:44 I always wondered why it asked me 11:46 to pray this with another person. 11:49 And one day, I was thinking about witnesses. 11:53 When I have a witness, for example, 11:56 all the important things 11:57 in this world require witnesses. 11:59 Witness is a very biblical. 12:01 That's where God set up in the first place. 12:03 But if somebody is getting married, 12:05 they need witnesses. 12:07 If a peace treaty is signed, the more witnesses the better. 12:12 Why is it that we require witnesses? 12:14 Because it makes it more real to us as human beings. 12:18 When I have another man with me and in my case, 12:21 I got on my knees, he got on his knees 12:24 and we pray, I pray this prayer, 12:25 and of course, the wording is quite optional, 12:28 so I added to this prayer my own words 12:30 and I turned myself completely over to God 12:33 as I understood God. 12:36 With him as my witness, 12:37 I know that for the rest of my life 12:39 and the rest of that man's life, 12:41 I know that that was a real moment. 12:43 It wasn't a figment of my imagination, 12:46 it wasn't the fluke where one day 12:47 I just felt like saying this prayer, 12:49 this prayer has become reality in my life 12:52 but I needed that formal step 12:54 to take that step with my sponsor. 12:57 And it was one of the most amazing experiences. 12:59 I honestly say you know at the end of it says, 13:03 that the wording was quite optional 13:06 so long as we express the idea 13:08 voicing it without reservation. 13:10 This was only a beginning 13:11 though if honestly and humbly made an effect. 13:14 Sometimes a very great one was felt at once. 13:17 I looked for a high at the end of this prayer and I got none. 13:22 And it bothered me. 13:23 On the way home, I was thinking God, I don't feel anything. 13:28 God, I don't feel anything. 13:31 And suddenly I realized that was my experience. 13:34 I felt none of the fear and the guilt and the shame 13:40 and all that stuff and the worry, 13:42 I literally felt free. 13:44 And as soon as I realized that "feeling nothing" 13:50 meant that I was finally free. 13:51 Well then, I got the high I was hoping for 13:55 because I hadn't felt that before in my life. 13:57 Suddenly I don't have to make the decisions in my life. 14:01 Suddenly somebody else is in control. 14:04 In our steps, it says, "We were reborn." 14:09 To be born again. 14:11 The literature in AA, I have to say this, 14:14 if you are a Christian 14:15 and you read this book Alcoholics Anonymous, 14:17 over and over and over you're going to find 14:19 literally direct quotes from the Bible. 14:22 It's an amazing thing, it says here, 14:24 when we sincerely took this position of turning 14:27 our will over to God, this third step, 14:29 all sorts of remarkable things follow, these are promises. 14:32 We had a new employer with a capital E. 14:36 We know who that is, 14:37 being all powerful he provided what we needed 14:39 if we kept close to him and performed his work well, 14:42 established on such a footing 14:44 we became less and less interested in ourselves, 14:47 our little plans and designs, 14:49 more and more we became interested in seeing 14:51 what we could contribute to life. 14:53 As we felt new power flow and who doesn't need a new power. 14:57 As we felt, 14:59 as we enjoyed peace of mind who doesn't want that. 15:03 As we discovered, we could face life successfully 15:06 as we became conscious of God's presence. 15:09 We began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow, 15:13 and the hereafter and hear the words, "We were reborn." 15:17 Amen. 15:18 All my life I wanted to do it over again, 15:22 if I could just do it over again knowing what I know, 15:26 and now I get to. 15:27 I get to remember everything I've learned 15:30 up until this point and start over again a brand new life, 15:35 and if that isn't as close to baptism, 15:37 I don't know what is, you know, 15:39 literally to be born again 15:41 and be a new creature in Christ. 15:42 But see, you know, 2 Corinthians 5:17 says, 15:47 that "We are new creations of Christ Jesus." 15:50 The old is gone, the new has come. 15:52 And suddenly have such a hard time believing that 15:54 but for me that prayer that you read 15:58 the prayer of surrender. 16:00 That's something that I have to go through 16:01 on a daily basis nearly is just, 16:04 so do you find yourself day by day surrendering and... 16:07 This is why it's so important that we understand, 16:11 if we want God to work in us 16:14 to will and to do his good pleasure. 16:16 He's got a plan for your life. 16:18 And if you're sitting home right now, 16:20 you may have a beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other, 16:25 and you may feel like you started watching 16:27 this to laugh at the silly little lady 16:29 and this man that's in the shadow. 16:32 But God had you tuned in to this program on purpose 16:36 because He's got a plan for your life 16:38 and listen to what He can do 16:41 just as He did in your life, Bob. 16:44 There is... 16:45 If you look at this prayer carefully, 16:47 it starts by saying, 16:48 "I offer myself to you to do whatever you want with me." 16:51 The second part is a request. 16:54 God, please relieve me of my bondage 16:57 to self of my selfishness 16:59 of trying to run the show all the time. 17:02 Why? 17:03 That I may better do your will, not my will, His will. 17:07 The second request is take away my difficulties, 17:10 take away my drinking obsession, 17:13 and my other difficulties, why? 17:15 So that victory over them may bear witness. 17:17 I want to be your witness of your power, 17:20 your love and your way of life. 17:22 I want to show other people, 17:25 which is an integral part of AA 17:27 is once you've been relieved, go and tell others. 17:32 Go and help others. 17:33 The antidote to selfishness and self centeredness 17:36 which is the root of our problems in AA 17:39 is to help other people to be selfless and selflessness, 17:44 it does not mean I think less of myself. 17:46 It says that I think of myself less 17:48 and I think of other people more. 17:50 And, you know, this is again 17:52 according to the biblical model. 17:54 I mean Jesus, 17:56 whenever He healed the demoniac, 17:59 it was go and tell, 18:00 He was constantly He would heal, 18:02 go and tell. 18:03 So this is something that God wants us to be a witness 18:07 and I just want to share this scripture 18:08 with someone at home who needs to hear it. 18:10 This is a promise from Psalm 129:4, it said, it says, 18:17 "The Lord is righteous, 18:18 He is cut in pieces the cords of the wicked." 18:22 So when you pray and say Lord, 18:25 release me from... 18:26 The bondage 18:28 The bondage, release me from fear, 18:30 release me from this addiction, God, 18:34 if you are surrendered He will, 18:37 and it is a day by day surrender 18:39 and it's a day by day recovery, correct? 18:41 Absolutely. Correct. 18:42 Okay, so when you... 18:44 then I think we've got enough time 18:46 to take us from step three to let's go to step four. 18:50 Step four is made a fearless 18:52 and searching moral inventory of ourselves. 18:55 And that sounds like a tough job. 18:58 And honestly it is a tough job. 18:59 That's kind of the search me, oh, God and know my heart, 19:02 my wicked... 19:03 show if there is any wicked ways. 19:05 And believe me, if you ask Him, 19:07 He will show it. 19:08 Yeah. 19:09 AA has come up with a very simple way of doing this. 19:12 We have three lists that we write out on paper, 19:15 it's not in our heads, it's on paper. 19:18 The first list is a resentment list. 19:20 I need to look at every single person 19:22 that I have a resentment with, 19:23 and I need to list their name next to their name I list, 19:27 how... 19:29 You know why I have this resentment? 19:31 Let's say, you know, John, hurt my feelings because, you know, 19:36 he, I don't know whatever he did 19:39 and I'm hanging on to this resentment, 19:41 I need to list it, I need to list why. 19:43 And then I need to look at how it affects me. 19:46 AA says, "Does it affect your self-esteem? 19:49 Does it affect how you feel about yourself? 19:51 Does it affect your ambitions, 19:53 what you wanted to do at the time? 19:55 Does it affect your personal relations 19:57 with other people beyond the person 19:58 that you have the resentment with." 20:00 In other words, did it affect your family 20:01 or his family or other friends. 20:03 Did it affect your sex relations, 20:05 if you're married that it cause a problem. 20:08 And was there fear involved and financial security. 20:12 Those are the main areas 20:15 that alcoholics seem to cop resentments with, 20:18 something that affects any one of those things 20:20 they get angry, they're resentful, 20:22 they refuse to forgive, 20:24 and then in the fourth column we write down. 20:27 Did we have a part in this? 20:29 Did our dishonesty, our selfishness, 20:32 our self-seeking or our own fear 20:35 cause this problem or aggravate this problem. 20:38 Now there are a few instances where things have happened 20:42 for somebody, for example, who was molested as a child, 20:45 they did not do anything to cause that to happen. 20:48 But they still have a part in this resentment, 20:51 you know, what that part is in every resentment, 20:53 I refused to forgive. 20:55 Yeah. That's my part. 20:57 I choose to hang on to that and I need to see 21:01 that I'm hanging on to these things. 21:03 I need to see that I caused many of these things. 21:06 I see that my behavior put me in a position 21:08 to be hurt by other people 21:10 or you know and did that have a part. 21:13 Again not that anyone's behavior put them in a position 21:18 to be molested, that's not what you're saying. 21:20 No, exactly. 21:21 You're saying by your behavior of holding on to something... 21:24 Yes. Is creating the hurt. 21:26 And creating the drinking, when I'm resentful I drink 21:30 because I need to get relief. 21:31 So resentment is the number one thing 21:33 that gets alcoholics drunk. 21:35 And we have to be freer, free of that anger. 21:38 Isn't this true of all of us 21:41 that resentment is now, 21:45 you know, I know that Paul wrote and said, 21:50 "Forgetting what is behind I press forward." 21:52 I know that Isaiah says, you know, God says, 21:55 "Don't dwell on the past, release the past. 21:58 I want to do a new thing in you." 21:59 But what we've got to do 22:01 before God can do a new thing in us, 22:04 is we've got to go back and expose the root 22:07 and so often, you know, 22:09 we as Christians don't want to revisit 22:11 or anybody, who wants to revisit 22:12 something that's painful, 22:14 but this is the route where you've been wounded, 22:16 you hold a resentment, 22:18 this is the root of the problem. 22:20 There is bitterness, there's anger, 22:22 and I don't know, sometimes you said, 22:24 that you're choosing not to forgive, 22:26 some people have no idea how to forgive. 22:28 Exactly. 22:30 If you've been molested as a child. 22:32 If you've gone through this. 22:33 You've got no idea how to let go of this. 22:37 So step four, you're making this inventory and then seeing, 22:42 was I involved in any way in this. 22:45 But step five, tell me how do you let go. 22:48 Well, I could tell you actually in AA step eight 22:52 is where we let go of our resentments. 22:54 And that's when we're listing the people we have harmed. 22:58 We suddenly realize that as we go before them, 23:01 in many cases we have harmed them, 23:03 but they have harmed us too. 23:05 And before we let go, 23:08 we make amends for the harms we have done. 23:10 We need to start by forgiving them one and all. 23:14 We cannot afford to hang on to a resentment 23:16 because it will get us drunk sooner or later. 23:18 Yeah. 23:19 So what happened in my experience 23:21 is there were some things, a few things in my life 23:24 where people had hurt me very deeply. 23:26 And I had no part 23:27 in this except for hanging on to the anger. 23:30 And in some cases, people have come up to the point 23:34 where they just realize 23:35 they don't have it in them to forgive, 23:38 the wound is so deep. 23:40 For example, a child that's molested. 23:43 How in the world do you forgive somebody for that? 23:46 Especially if the person has perhaps passed on... 23:48 Exactly 23:49 And it was a grandfather that did or something. 23:51 Exactly. 23:52 So what AA says is, ask God for forgiveness... 23:56 Yeah, it is a gift. To give to that person. 24:00 Yes, yes. 24:02 Whether they asked for it or not ask God, 24:05 I don't have it in me but I know you do. 24:07 You can forgive this person. 24:09 Give me your forgiveness and I will pass it on to them, 24:13 and somehow as it goes through me, 24:16 it cleans out that resentment out of my heart. 24:18 Amen. 24:19 It heals that pain and it changes me on the inside 24:24 when I receive forgiveness and pass it on to someone else, 24:28 it heals my heart. 24:29 That's where I found 24:31 that kind of forgiveness was in step eight. 24:34 But you're back on step four. 24:35 Let me quickly add a few things. 24:37 The second list we do is a fear list. 24:40 We list our fears and next to them 24:43 if we know why we have that fear we actually list it. 24:46 The third part of that step is a difficult one 24:50 and that's a sex inventory. 24:52 Alcoholics tend to be very promiscuous. 24:55 We have to list every person we can remember 24:59 that we have had some sort of sexual relation with 25:02 and the harm we have caused them we look at, 25:05 did I arouse jealousy or suspicion 25:07 or bitterness in that person. 25:09 Did I give them a reason to be angry with me? 25:12 Did I hurt them in what way 25:14 and what should I have done instead. 25:16 And we list all these things out. 25:18 In the end, those three lists deal with the four things 25:22 that will get alcoholics drunk faster than anything. 25:24 Number one, resentment, anger. 25:27 Number two, fear 25:28 and the sex inventory deals with the things 25:30 we feel guilty about and ashamed about. 25:33 So anger, fear, guilt and shame 25:35 are dealt with in this force that in a marvelous way. 25:39 To me, it looks like laser surgery. 25:42 You're not hurting everything around it, 25:44 you go straight to the core 25:46 of what makes a person want to drink, 25:49 want to seek relief 25:50 from the anger, the fear, the guilt and shame 25:53 and you deal specifically with those things. 25:55 You don't need 20 years of psychotherapy 25:58 to come up with probably nothing on that list. 26:01 You need something simple and AA is simple at its core. 26:04 You know, I think 26:06 that there's probably a number of people, 26:07 Bob, that would really benefit from this because, you know, 26:14 we're talking about alcohol, alcoholism specifically, 26:18 but there's many other addictions, 26:20 including the addiction of overworking. 26:22 I know for myself personally 26:26 because of things that had happened in my past. 26:28 What I exhibited, what I manifested was overwork 26:33 because I felt like I was in control 26:35 as long as I was, you know, 26:38 being productive and giving in to something, 26:40 so this is an inventory and many of these steps. 26:44 It sounds like steps that we've all been through 26:48 or have to go through for healing 26:51 no matter what your problem is, 26:54 so we're down to one minute. 26:56 I cannot believe this. 26:59 Were the people involved 27:01 in founding this of a particular 27:05 or where they Christian or they... 27:09 They were both exposed to a group 27:11 called the Oxford groups, which was a Christian group. 27:14 But honestly Dr. Bob who was one of the co-founders. 27:20 He was a religious man, he went to church every week 27:23 and he had tried to get sober, 27:24 but he was missing a piece of the puzzle that Bill, 27:27 who was a totally un-churched agnostic 27:30 when he came to believe in God, gave him the solution 27:34 and that is he needed to be convinced 27:36 that alcoholism was a deadly, fatal, progressive, 27:39 incurable disease and that's exactly what happened, 27:42 when he was desperate enough, 27:44 then he applied the spiritual principles 27:47 with a willingness 27:48 he'd never been able to muster before. 27:50 And the two of them got sober together 27:53 and formed what we now know is Alcoholics Anonymous. 27:56 Bob, thank you so much for being again with us today, 27:59 and we'd like you to come back next week 28:01 so that we can continue. 28:03 We've gone through the first three, four steps, 28:06 first four steps but, that's only out of 12, 28:10 we're gonna have to talk fast next time. 28:13 Thank you so much for joining us. 28:15 And our heart, I just want you to know 28:17 that our hearts and our prayers are with you 28:19 and we know that God can give you victory. |
Revised 2017-09-26