Today on Issues and Answers,
00:00:01.36\00:00:02.70
we're going to be continuing
our conversation on alcoholism
00:00:02.73\00:00:06.40
and the way out if you will.
00:00:06.43\00:00:08.47
But one of the
most important steps
00:00:08.50\00:00:10.44
is you get to
that point that it's,
00:00:10.47\00:00:12.87
"Not my will but yours be done."
00:00:12.91\00:00:15.51
Please join us today
on Issues and Answers.
00:00:15.54\00:00:18.78
I am Shelley Quinn,
00:00:48.51\00:00:49.84
and we're so glad
that you've joined us today
00:00:49.88\00:00:52.28
on Issues and Answers.
00:00:52.31\00:00:53.65
We're tackling a
problem and the problem
00:00:53.68\00:00:55.88
is the issue is
that of alcoholism.
00:00:55.92\00:00:59.35
And we're talking about people
who have tried everything else
00:00:59.39\00:01:04.53
and nothing's working and
a wonderful program called
00:01:04.56\00:01:07.80
Alcoholics
Anonymous, a 12 step program.
00:01:07.83\00:01:10.73
Now our special guest today
is in the shadow if you will.
00:01:10.77\00:01:15.30
We're keeping him
out of the spotlight
00:01:15.34\00:01:16.97
to honor his anonymity.
00:01:17.01\00:01:20.24
He is a member of AA,
he's not a spokesperson for AA,
00:01:20.28\00:01:23.81
because AA does
not have spokespeople.
00:01:23.85\00:01:26.98
But we are here to
learn a little bit more
00:01:27.02\00:01:31.19
about the program,
00:01:31.22\00:01:32.55
The 12 steps to Recovery
from our special guest Bob.
00:01:32.59\00:01:36.59
Bob, let me just welcome
you once again to the program,
00:01:36.62\00:01:40.60
it's so special
that you're here.
00:01:40.63\00:01:41.96
Thank you for
sharing your testimony.
00:01:42.00\00:01:44.73
We've heard how you
were a very solid sick,
00:01:44.77\00:01:50.61
solidly sick can I say that?
00:01:50.64\00:01:52.67
A solidly sick
individual alcoholic
00:01:52.71\00:01:57.05
in the throes of practicing
your alcoholism for 11 years,
00:01:57.08\00:02:02.22
now after you went to began
00:02:02.25\00:02:06.32
go attending AA meetings.
00:02:06.35\00:02:08.92
You have now been sober
for 26 years and counting.
00:02:08.96\00:02:14.20
You are a sponsor and
you're an all around good guy,
00:02:14.23\00:02:18.30
you're a
wonderful Christian man.
00:02:18.33\00:02:20.64
We talked last time
about the first two steps
00:02:20.67\00:02:23.81
could you just
briefly, you knew God,
00:02:23.84\00:02:26.61
but tell us
those first two steps
00:02:26.64\00:02:28.31
and let's get into the
third step of recovery.
00:02:28.34\00:02:31.31
Well, the first step
00:02:31.35\00:02:32.68
is we admitted we
were powerless over alcohol
00:02:32.71\00:02:35.42
and that our lives
had become unmanageable.
00:02:35.45\00:02:37.92
The second step,
is we came to believe
00:02:37.95\00:02:40.92
that a power
greater than ourselves
00:02:40.96\00:02:42.76
could restore us to sanity.
00:02:42.79\00:02:44.79
In transit in that step
00:02:44.83\00:02:46.80
is the idea that I am
insane when it comes to alcohol,
00:02:46.83\00:02:51.03
I cannot think straight.
00:02:51.07\00:02:52.40
There is this little
lie in my head that says,
00:02:52.43\00:02:54.90
"This time it will be different,
00:02:54.94\00:02:56.40
this time I will behave.
00:02:56.44\00:02:58.07
This time I won't get drunk.
00:02:58.11\00:02:59.84
This time," you
know, and every alcoholic,
00:02:59.87\00:03:04.25
every addict of any
addiction believes that lie.
00:03:04.28\00:03:08.18
In other words, it's not like
you're saying today, you know,
00:03:08.22\00:03:11.72
you won't get drunk but
it's like if you're saying,
00:03:11.75\00:03:14.36
"I'll drink and not get drunk,"
that's what you're saying,
00:03:14.39\00:03:16.86
I can practice my
addiction but manage it.
00:03:16.89\00:03:20.30
I can manage it and the problem
00:03:20.33\00:03:22.06
with having to control something
00:03:22.10\00:03:23.60
is anything you
can try to control
00:03:23.63\00:03:25.43
is out of control already.
00:03:25.47\00:03:26.80
Right.
00:03:26.84\00:03:28.17
And the illusion
that every alcoholic
00:03:28.20\00:03:29.54
lives under or the delusion
if you will is that somehow
00:03:29.57\00:03:33.98
I will find the miracle of
self control at some point.
00:03:34.01\00:03:38.38
And because of the way my body
00:03:38.41\00:03:40.28
is when I ingest
any amount of alcohol
00:03:40.32\00:03:42.78
into my body whatsoever.
00:03:42.82\00:03:44.92
My body takes over a
compulsion to drink takes over,
00:03:44.95\00:03:48.36
my head screams and
said stop, my body says,
00:03:48.39\00:03:51.89
"We're not
stopping until we're done."
00:03:51.93\00:03:54.10
And so,
00:03:54.13\00:03:55.46
that model AA calls it
an Allergy of the Body.
00:03:55.50\00:04:00.10
In other words,
it's not truly analogy
00:04:00.14\00:04:02.64
the way we understand
allergies and histamines
00:04:02.67\00:04:05.01
and all the other body functions
00:04:05.04\00:04:06.81
that make a true allergy,
but the model works well.
00:04:06.84\00:04:09.84
In other words, every
time you ingest alcohol,
00:04:09.88\00:04:12.91
there's a predictable reaction
00:04:12.95\00:04:16.02
and the reaction is
your body demands more,
00:04:16.05\00:04:18.69
your head cannot
control it and you drink
00:04:18.72\00:04:20.86
and you go through
your whole drinking spree
00:04:20.89\00:04:23.06
and you come out
of it remorseful,
00:04:23.09\00:04:25.03
feeling guilty and shamed
00:04:25.06\00:04:27.13
and then to relieve
that guilt and shame
00:04:27.16\00:04:29.73
suddenly we
start drinking again,
00:04:29.76\00:04:31.60
so it's a vicious cycle,
00:04:31.63\00:04:32.97
it just keeps going
and going and going.
00:04:33.00\00:04:35.17
So that's how, you know,
00:04:35.20\00:04:37.27
I had to come to believe
00:04:37.31\00:04:38.64
that God could do
something for me...
00:04:38.67\00:04:41.14
But now, Bobby, one
time you did know God.
00:04:41.18\00:04:43.45
Yes.
00:04:43.48\00:04:44.81
You were a church grower,
00:04:44.85\00:04:46.65
you grew up in a Christian home
00:04:46.68\00:04:48.82
and we see so many
people in the church
00:04:48.85\00:04:51.02
who are healed of
alcoholism without going to AA.
00:04:51.05\00:04:55.99
Yes.
00:04:56.02\00:04:58.19
What is AA all about,
what makes it different?
00:04:58.23\00:05:01.13
Why do some people get
healed in church, you didn't.
00:05:01.16\00:05:03.57
Right.
00:05:03.60\00:05:04.93
'Cause you didn't, you said,
00:05:04.97\00:05:06.30
it was because you called on God
00:05:06.33\00:05:07.67
but you weren't
ready to surrender.
00:05:07.70\00:05:09.04
Exactly.
00:05:09.07\00:05:10.41
So tell us a little bit more,
00:05:10.44\00:05:11.87
define the difference
between AA and Church.
00:05:11.91\00:05:15.44
Well, AA has the same
solution that church does.
00:05:15.48\00:05:18.55
Basically AA says, you know,
00:05:18.58\00:05:22.05
"There is one who has all power,
00:05:22.08\00:05:23.55
that one is God
may you find him now."
00:05:23.59\00:05:26.35
In other words, in order
to get past this ailment,
00:05:26.39\00:05:29.92
this disease, this malady,
00:05:29.96\00:05:32.03
I have to find a
spiritual solution.
00:05:32.06\00:05:34.10
Most people get sober in church.
00:05:34.13\00:05:37.23
That's where
people go to find God,
00:05:37.27\00:05:38.73
that's God's house
00:05:38.77\00:05:40.10
that's the
logical place to look.
00:05:40.14\00:05:41.47
Right.
00:05:41.50\00:05:42.84
But then, there are those of us
00:05:42.87\00:05:44.21
who are particularly
either stubborn or damaged
00:05:44.24\00:05:47.11
or run the show
a little too long
00:05:47.14\00:05:50.45
and we have
tried to come to church
00:05:50.48\00:05:52.21
and we have tried to get sober
in church and it has failed us.
00:05:52.25\00:05:55.28
Why does it fail?
00:05:55.32\00:05:56.65
Why do we fail to
connect with God in church?
00:05:56.69\00:05:59.19
In many cases that
would be our pride,
00:05:59.22\00:06:01.49
it would be our resentments,
00:06:01.52\00:06:02.92
maybe somebody in
church had hurt us.
00:06:02.96\00:06:04.99
Maybe it's the
hypocrites in church.
00:06:05.03\00:06:06.93
Maybe it's the fact
00:06:06.96\00:06:08.30
that I'm not paying attention
to what's going on in me,
00:06:08.33\00:06:10.03
I'm paying attention
00:06:10.07\00:06:11.40
to what's going
on in somebody else.
00:06:11.43\00:06:12.93
Maybe I don't like the preacher.
00:06:12.97\00:06:14.44
Maybe I feel like
I've tried every church,
00:06:14.47\00:06:16.77
every denomination and
that didn't stop my drinking.
00:06:16.81\00:06:19.77
Those are the
people that AA says,
00:06:19.81\00:06:22.18
"We have a solution for you.
00:06:22.21\00:06:24.28
We're going to strip away
00:06:24.31\00:06:26.15
all the so-called doctrines
00:06:26.18\00:06:29.32
of this denomination
or that denomination."
00:06:29.35\00:06:31.72
We are going to bring it down
00:06:31.75\00:06:33.15
to a level that's so simple
that anybody can find God.
00:06:33.19\00:06:36.69
And AA is not interested
in becoming a monopoly,
00:06:36.73\00:06:40.53
AA says, "We're
trying to help the people
00:06:40.56\00:06:42.66
who have found no
help any other way.
00:06:42.70\00:06:45.43
There are people
who stop drinking
00:06:45.47\00:06:47.30
and live normal lives
by going to counseling.
00:06:47.34\00:06:50.31
There are people
who use psychiatrists
00:06:50.34\00:06:52.11
and finally resolve whatever
it is in their past that,
00:06:52.14\00:06:55.18
you know, cause them to drink.
00:06:55.21\00:06:57.11
Drinking is only a
symptom of what's wrong with us.
00:06:57.15\00:06:59.81
It's not what's wrong with me,
it's not that I drank too much.
00:06:59.85\00:07:03.42
The action is the fruit,
00:07:03.45\00:07:04.79
it's not the
root of the problem.
00:07:04.82\00:07:06.15
Exactly, my
problem, in AA we say,
00:07:06.19\00:07:09.12
our problem is that
we are self-centered,
00:07:09.16\00:07:11.56
that we are running the show,
00:07:11.59\00:07:13.80
that we have no other God
in our lives besides ourselves.
00:07:13.83\00:07:17.47
And whether you
find God in church
00:07:17.50\00:07:19.27
or you find him somewhere else.
00:07:19.30\00:07:21.94
Some people actually find God
in nature, God's second book.
00:07:21.97\00:07:25.64
Through nature they finally
establish a contact with God.
00:07:25.67\00:07:29.54
Some people, many people,
00:07:29.58\00:07:31.51
I would say them the
vast majority of alcoholics
00:07:31.55\00:07:33.85
and people who are
addicted to any other addiction
00:07:33.88\00:07:36.69
find their solution in church
and I want to make that clear.
00:07:36.72\00:07:41.49
AA has a
membership, worldwide membership
00:07:41.52\00:07:44.73
estimated between
two and four million.
00:07:44.76\00:07:46.59
There are many, many more
millions of people in church
00:07:46.63\00:07:50.27
who are sober and
clean because of the place
00:07:50.30\00:07:53.77
they found their connection
with God was in church.
00:07:53.80\00:07:56.47
So I've heard you referred to AA
00:07:56.50\00:07:58.84
before as the last
house on the block.
00:07:58.87\00:08:01.31
That's right.
00:08:01.34\00:08:02.68
In other words, if you've
tried everything else and failed
00:08:02.71\00:08:06.78
and you're not getting
over your alcoholic addiction
00:08:06.82\00:08:09.92
or you're not able
to recover from this,
00:08:09.95\00:08:13.32
then AA is a great program.
00:08:13.36\00:08:16.02
So what is step three?
00:08:16.06\00:08:18.23
Step three is made a decision
00:08:18.26\00:08:20.80
to turn our will in our
lives over to the care of God
00:08:20.83\00:08:23.53
as we understood Him.
00:08:23.57\00:08:25.33
Now this is a
very formal step in AA.
00:08:25.37\00:08:28.24
AA says, "Think
carefully before you do this,
00:08:28.27\00:08:31.51
do not take this casually."
00:08:31.54\00:08:33.68
You are going to be
turning your will and your life
00:08:33.71\00:08:37.85
over to the care of
something greater than you
00:08:37.88\00:08:41.22
who can restore you to sanity.
00:08:41.25\00:08:43.32
That's the reference back
to the insanity of drinking.
00:08:43.35\00:08:47.32
This is a fearful
step for many people,
00:08:47.36\00:08:50.03
when they come
to this step in AA
00:08:50.06\00:08:51.53
especially those
00:08:51.56\00:08:52.89
who have just barely
allowed God into their lives
00:08:52.93\00:08:57.03
by coming to
believe that there is a God.
00:08:57.07\00:08:59.03
People that were raised
00:08:59.07\00:09:00.44
without any sort
of concept of God
00:09:00.47\00:09:04.17
sometimes have a
difficulty with this,
00:09:04.21\00:09:06.27
but believe it or not, the ones
who have the bigger struggle
00:09:06.31\00:09:08.84
like I did with
the step are the ones
00:09:08.88\00:09:11.31
who think they know God.
00:09:11.35\00:09:13.52
And the ones who
have preconceived ideas
00:09:13.55\00:09:18.32
of what God is all about.
00:09:18.35\00:09:20.39
And it's
interesting to me that those
00:09:20.42\00:09:22.99
that used to have
some sort of faith
00:09:23.02\00:09:25.29
and then lost it are the ones
00:09:25.33\00:09:27.10
that tend to struggle
the most with this step
00:09:27.13\00:09:29.30
because they think
they've tried the way of faith
00:09:29.33\00:09:31.93
and tried the way of no
faith and they found no answer.
00:09:31.97\00:09:34.97
Well suddenly AA is saying,
00:09:35.00\00:09:37.24
"Put aside everything you
think you know, try this step."
00:09:37.27\00:09:42.48
AA also insists that
we try to do this step
00:09:42.51\00:09:45.35
with another person
with an understanding person.
00:09:45.38\00:09:48.15
For most of us in AA it
turns out to be our AA sponsor
00:09:48.18\00:09:51.99
which is just another
person who becomes our mentor
00:09:52.02\00:09:55.42
who walks this path with us.
00:09:55.46\00:09:59.26
In some ways would you say,
00:09:59.29\00:10:01.90
what I think of this
accountability partner...
00:10:01.93\00:10:03.63
Sure.
00:10:03.67\00:10:05.00
Okay. Absolutely.
00:10:05.03\00:10:06.37
So your sponsor
then is helping you
00:10:06.40\00:10:09.94
in watching to see if
you really are turning over.
00:10:09.97\00:10:13.94
It's a process of yielding,
00:10:13.98\00:10:16.01
what we call in Christian
circles often we say surrender.
00:10:16.04\00:10:19.55
Surrender
00:10:19.58\00:10:20.92
But it is one and of course,
00:10:20.95\00:10:23.49
the scripture that comes to
my mind is Philippians 2:13,
00:10:23.52\00:10:26.39
"That it is God who works in you
00:10:26.42\00:10:29.19
both to will and to
do his good pleasure."
00:10:29.22\00:10:33.29
And this is a
step, I think I like
00:10:33.33\00:10:35.76
what I'm liking about
the steps that we're hearing,
00:10:35.80\00:10:37.97
it's something every Christian
00:10:38.00\00:10:40.17
really actually
has to go through,
00:10:40.20\00:10:42.67
so turning over how did,
00:10:42.70\00:10:45.64
how did your
sponsor help you in learning
00:10:45.67\00:10:49.11
to let go and let
God be in control.
00:10:49.14\00:10:53.28
Well, first let
me tell you about
00:10:53.31\00:10:54.78
the process of step three.
00:10:54.82\00:10:56.15
Okay.
00:10:56.18\00:10:57.52
Step three is not
just a mental admission
00:10:57.55\00:11:01.22
that God is now in
control of my life.
00:11:01.26\00:11:03.39
Step three involves
a very specific prayer
00:11:03.43\00:11:06.39
and I have my book
Alcoholics Anonymous with me,
00:11:06.43\00:11:08.90
if you don't mind I
will read it with you.
00:11:08.93\00:11:11.33
It says, "We
were now at step three
00:11:11.37\00:11:13.94
and many of us said to our maker
00:11:13.97\00:11:15.64
as we understood Him.
00:11:15.67\00:11:17.24
God, I offer myself
to thee to build with me
00:11:17.27\00:11:21.18
and to do with
me is though wilt.
00:11:21.21\00:11:23.55
Relieve me of
the bondage of self
00:11:23.58\00:11:26.31
that I may better do thy will.
00:11:26.35\00:11:28.38
Take away my difficulties
00:11:28.42\00:11:30.55
that victory over
them may bear witness
00:11:30.59\00:11:33.32
to those I would
help of thy power,
00:11:33.36\00:11:36.02
thy love and thy way of life.
00:11:36.06\00:11:38.49
May I do thy will always."
00:11:38.53\00:11:41.56
We pray this prayer
with another person.
00:11:41.60\00:11:44.47
I always
wondered why it asked me
00:11:44.50\00:11:46.94
to pray this
with another person.
00:11:46.97\00:11:49.27
And one day, I was
thinking about witnesses.
00:11:49.30\00:11:53.27
When I have a
witness, for example,
00:11:53.31\00:11:56.24
all the important things
00:11:56.28\00:11:57.61
in this world require witnesses.
00:11:57.65\00:11:59.51
Witness is a very biblical.
00:11:59.55\00:12:01.22
That's where God set
up in the first place.
00:12:01.25\00:12:03.69
But if somebody
is getting married,
00:12:03.72\00:12:05.72
they need witnesses.
00:12:05.75\00:12:07.16
If a peace treaty is signed,
the more witnesses the better.
00:12:07.19\00:12:12.23
Why is it that we
require witnesses?
00:12:12.26\00:12:14.56
Because it makes it more
real to us as human beings.
00:12:14.60\00:12:18.17
When I have another
man with me and in my case,
00:12:18.20\00:12:21.60
I got on my knees,
he got on his knees
00:12:21.64\00:12:24.01
and we pray, I pray this prayer,
00:12:24.04\00:12:25.87
and of course, the
wording is quite optional,
00:12:25.91\00:12:28.14
so I added to this
prayer my own words
00:12:28.18\00:12:30.95
and I turned myself
completely over to God
00:12:30.98\00:12:33.68
as I understood God.
00:12:33.72\00:12:36.05
With him as my witness,
00:12:36.08\00:12:37.85
I know that for
the rest of my life
00:12:37.89\00:12:39.72
and the rest of that man's life,
00:12:39.75\00:12:41.76
I know that that
was a real moment.
00:12:41.79\00:12:43.93
It wasn't a
figment of my imagination,
00:12:43.96\00:12:46.06
it wasn't the
fluke where one day
00:12:46.09\00:12:47.50
I just felt like
saying this prayer,
00:12:47.53\00:12:49.36
this prayer has
become reality in my life
00:12:49.40\00:12:52.23
but I needed that formal step
00:12:52.27\00:12:54.47
to take that
step with my sponsor.
00:12:54.50\00:12:57.11
And it was one of the
most amazing experiences.
00:12:57.14\00:12:59.74
I honestly say you
know at the end of it says,
00:12:59.77\00:13:03.35
that the wording
was quite optional
00:13:03.38\00:13:06.41
so long as we express the idea
00:13:06.45\00:13:08.15
voicing it without reservation.
00:13:08.18\00:13:10.39
This was only a beginning
00:13:10.42\00:13:11.75
though if honestly
and humbly made an effect.
00:13:11.79\00:13:14.22
Sometimes a very
great one was felt at once.
00:13:14.26\00:13:17.09
I looked for a high at the end
of this prayer and I got none.
00:13:17.13\00:13:22.46
And it bothered me.
00:13:22.50\00:13:23.83
On the way home, I was thinking
God, I don't feel anything.
00:13:23.87\00:13:28.80
God, I don't feel anything.
00:13:28.84\00:13:30.97
And suddenly I
realized that was my experience.
00:13:31.01\00:13:34.68
I felt none of the fear
and the guilt and the shame
00:13:34.71\00:13:40.62
and all that
stuff and the worry,
00:13:40.65\00:13:42.68
I literally felt free.
00:13:42.72\00:13:44.92
And as soon as I
realized that "feeling nothing"
00:13:44.95\00:13:50.09
meant that I was finally free.
00:13:50.13\00:13:51.73
Well then, I got the
high I was hoping for
00:13:51.76\00:13:54.96
because I hadn't felt
that before in my life.
00:13:55.00\00:13:57.47
Suddenly I don't have to
make the decisions in my life.
00:13:57.50\00:14:01.30
Suddenly somebody
else is in control.
00:14:01.34\00:14:04.84
In our steps, it
says, "We were reborn."
00:14:04.87\00:14:09.81
To be born again.
00:14:09.84\00:14:11.81
The literature in
AA, I have to say this,
00:14:11.85\00:14:14.05
if you are a Christian
00:14:14.08\00:14:15.42
and you read this
book Alcoholics Anonymous,
00:14:15.45\00:14:17.49
over and over and
over you're going to find
00:14:17.52\00:14:19.72
literally direct
quotes from the Bible.
00:14:19.75\00:14:22.39
It's an amazing
thing, it says here,
00:14:22.42\00:14:24.93
when we sincerely took
this position of turning
00:14:24.96\00:14:27.26
our will over to
God, this third step,
00:14:27.30\00:14:29.40
all sorts of remarkable things
follow, these are promises.
00:14:29.43\00:14:32.77
We had a new
employer with a capital E.
00:14:32.80\00:14:36.00
We know who that is,
00:14:36.04\00:14:37.37
being all powerful he
provided what we needed
00:14:37.41\00:14:39.74
if we kept close to him
and performed his work well,
00:14:39.77\00:14:42.81
established on such a footing
00:14:42.84\00:14:44.38
we became less and less
interested in ourselves,
00:14:44.41\00:14:47.72
our little plans and designs,
00:14:47.75\00:14:49.58
more and more we
became interested in seeing
00:14:49.62\00:14:51.65
what we could
contribute to life.
00:14:51.69\00:14:53.72
As we felt new power flow and
who doesn't need a new power.
00:14:53.76\00:14:57.53
As we felt,
00:14:57.56\00:14:59.53
as we enjoyed peace of
mind who doesn't want that.
00:14:59.56\00:15:02.96
As we discovered, we
could face life successfully
00:15:03.00\00:15:06.23
as we became
conscious of God's presence.
00:15:06.27\00:15:09.40
We began to lose our
fear of today, tomorrow,
00:15:09.44\00:15:13.01
and the hereafter and hear
the words, "We were reborn."
00:15:13.04\00:15:17.11
Amen.
00:15:17.15\00:15:18.85
All my life I
wanted to do it over again,
00:15:18.88\00:15:22.32
if I could just do it
over again knowing what I know,
00:15:22.35\00:15:26.09
and now I get to.
00:15:26.12\00:15:27.76
I get to remember
everything I've learned
00:15:27.79\00:15:30.93
up until this point and start
over again a brand new life,
00:15:30.96\00:15:35.46
and if that isn't
as close to baptism,
00:15:35.50\00:15:37.40
I don't know what is, you know,
00:15:37.43\00:15:39.03
literally to be born again
00:15:39.07\00:15:41.17
and be a new creature in Christ.
00:15:41.20\00:15:42.90
But see, you know, 2
Corinthians 5:17 says,
00:15:42.94\00:15:47.08
that "We are new
creations of Christ Jesus."
00:15:47.11\00:15:50.51
The old is gone,
the new has come.
00:15:50.55\00:15:52.18
And suddenly have such
a hard time believing that
00:15:52.21\00:15:54.48
but for me that
prayer that you read
00:15:54.52\00:15:58.59
the prayer of surrender.
00:15:58.62\00:16:00.16
That's something
that I have to go through
00:16:00.19\00:16:01.72
on a daily basis nearly is just,
00:16:01.76\00:16:04.56
so do you find yourself
day by day surrendering and...
00:16:04.59\00:16:07.73
This is why it's so
important that we understand,
00:16:07.76\00:16:11.07
if we want God to work in us
00:16:11.10\00:16:14.07
to will and to do
his good pleasure.
00:16:14.10\00:16:16.10
He's got a plan for your life.
00:16:16.14\00:16:18.34
And if you're
sitting home right now,
00:16:18.37\00:16:20.18
you may have a beer in one hand
and a cigarette in the other,
00:16:20.21\00:16:24.98
and you may feel
like you started watching
00:16:25.01\00:16:27.35
this to laugh at
the silly little lady
00:16:27.38\00:16:29.88
and this man
that's in the shadow.
00:16:29.92\00:16:32.15
But God had you tuned in
to this program on purpose
00:16:32.19\00:16:36.39
because He's got
a plan for your life
00:16:36.42\00:16:38.76
and listen to what He can do
00:16:38.79\00:16:41.53
just as He did
in your life, Bob.
00:16:41.56\00:16:44.47
There is...
00:16:44.50\00:16:45.83
If you look at
this prayer carefully,
00:16:45.87\00:16:47.30
it starts by saying,
00:16:47.34\00:16:48.67
"I offer myself to you to
do whatever you want with me."
00:16:48.70\00:16:51.87
The second part is a request.
00:16:51.91\00:16:54.74
God, please
relieve me of my bondage
00:16:54.78\00:16:57.28
to self of my selfishness
00:16:57.31\00:16:59.01
of trying to run
the show all the time.
00:16:59.05\00:17:02.05
Why?
00:17:02.08\00:17:03.49
That I may better do your
will, not my will, His will.
00:17:03.52\00:17:07.49
The second request is
take away my difficulties,
00:17:07.52\00:17:10.43
take away my drinking obsession,
00:17:10.46\00:17:13.23
and my other difficulties, why?
00:17:13.26\00:17:15.26
So that victory over
them may bear witness.
00:17:15.30\00:17:17.90
I want to be your
witness of your power,
00:17:17.93\00:17:20.30
your love and your way of life.
00:17:20.34\00:17:22.40
I want to show other people,
00:17:22.44\00:17:25.01
which is an integral part of AA
00:17:25.04\00:17:27.74
is once you've been
relieved, go and tell others.
00:17:27.78\00:17:31.98
Go and help others.
00:17:32.01\00:17:33.42
The antidote to selfishness
and self centeredness
00:17:33.45\00:17:36.72
which is the root
of our problems in AA
00:17:36.75\00:17:39.09
is to help other people to
be selfless and selflessness,
00:17:39.12\00:17:44.36
it does not mean I
think less of myself.
00:17:44.39\00:17:46.76
It says that I
think of myself less
00:17:46.80\00:17:48.93
and I think of
other people more.
00:17:48.96\00:17:50.90
And, you know, this is again
00:17:50.93\00:17:52.47
according to the biblical model.
00:17:52.50\00:17:54.60
I mean Jesus,
00:17:54.64\00:17:55.97
whenever He healed the demoniac,
00:17:56.00\00:17:59.57
it was go and tell,
00:17:59.61\00:18:00.94
He was constantly He would heal,
00:18:00.98\00:18:02.54
go and tell.
00:18:02.58\00:18:03.91
So this is something that
God wants us to be a witness
00:18:03.95\00:18:07.12
and I just want to
share this scripture
00:18:07.15\00:18:08.68
with someone at home
who needs to hear it.
00:18:08.72\00:18:10.72
This is a promise from
Psalm 129:4, it said, it says,
00:18:10.75\00:18:17.06
"The Lord is righteous,
00:18:17.09\00:18:18.89
He is cut in pieces
the cords of the wicked."
00:18:18.93\00:18:22.56
So when you pray and say Lord,
00:18:22.60\00:18:25.27
release me from...
00:18:25.30\00:18:26.63
The bondage
00:18:26.67\00:18:28.00
The bondage,
release me from fear,
00:18:28.04\00:18:30.77
release me from
this addiction, God,
00:18:30.81\00:18:34.61
if you are surrendered He will,
00:18:34.64\00:18:37.28
and it is a day by day surrender
00:18:37.31\00:18:39.15
and it's a day by
day recovery, correct?
00:18:39.18\00:18:40.98
Absolutely. Correct.
00:18:41.02\00:18:42.35
Okay, so when you...
00:18:42.38\00:18:44.39
then I think
we've got enough time
00:18:44.42\00:18:46.65
to take us from step
three to let's go to step four.
00:18:46.69\00:18:50.23
Step four is made a fearless
00:18:50.26\00:18:52.39
and searching moral
inventory of ourselves.
00:18:52.43\00:18:55.30
And that sounds
like a tough job.
00:18:55.33\00:18:58.30
And honestly it is a tough job.
00:18:58.33\00:18:59.83
That's kind of the search
me, oh, God and know my heart,
00:18:59.87\00:19:02.30
my wicked...
00:19:02.34\00:19:03.67
show if there
is any wicked ways.
00:19:03.71\00:19:05.74
And believe me, if you ask Him,
00:19:05.77\00:19:07.11
He will show it.
00:19:07.14\00:19:08.48
Yeah.
00:19:08.51\00:19:09.84
AA has come up with a
very simple way of doing this.
00:19:09.88\00:19:12.65
We have three lists
that we write out on paper,
00:19:12.68\00:19:15.88
it's not in our
heads, it's on paper.
00:19:15.92\00:19:18.02
The first list is
a resentment list.
00:19:18.05\00:19:20.22
I need to look at
every single person
00:19:20.26\00:19:22.09
that I have a resentment with,
00:19:22.12\00:19:23.86
and I need to list their
name next to their name I list,
00:19:23.89\00:19:27.60
how...
00:19:27.63\00:19:29.23
You know why I
have this resentment?
00:19:29.26\00:19:31.47
Let's say, you know, John, hurt
my feelings because, you know,
00:19:31.50\00:19:36.27
he, I don't know whatever he did
00:19:36.30\00:19:39.31
and I'm hanging on
to this resentment,
00:19:39.34\00:19:41.18
I need to list it,
I need to list why.
00:19:41.21\00:19:43.51
And then I need to
look at how it affects me.
00:19:43.55\00:19:46.21
AA says, "Does it
affect your self-esteem?
00:19:46.25\00:19:49.35
Does it affect how
you feel about yourself?
00:19:49.38\00:19:51.85
Does it affect your ambitions,
00:19:51.89\00:19:53.25
what you wanted
to do at the time?
00:19:53.29\00:19:55.06
Does it affect
your personal relations
00:19:55.09\00:19:56.99
with other
people beyond the person
00:19:57.03\00:19:58.79
that you have
the resentment with."
00:19:58.83\00:20:00.16
In other words, did
it affect your family
00:20:00.20\00:20:01.60
or his family or other friends.
00:20:01.63\00:20:03.60
Did it affect
your sex relations,
00:20:03.63\00:20:05.23
if you're married
that it cause a problem.
00:20:05.27\00:20:08.07
And was there fear
involved and financial security.
00:20:08.10\00:20:12.77
Those are the main areas
00:20:12.81\00:20:15.64
that alcoholics seem
to cop resentments with,
00:20:15.68\00:20:18.38
something that affects
any one of those things
00:20:18.41\00:20:20.62
they get angry,
they're resentful,
00:20:20.65\00:20:22.32
they refuse to forgive,
00:20:22.35\00:20:24.05
and then in the
fourth column we write down.
00:20:24.09\00:20:27.06
Did we have a part in this?
00:20:27.09\00:20:29.42
Did our
dishonesty, our selfishness,
00:20:29.46\00:20:32.19
our self-seeking or our own fear
00:20:32.23\00:20:35.10
cause this problem or
aggravate this problem.
00:20:35.13\00:20:38.67
Now there are a few instances
where things have happened
00:20:38.70\00:20:42.17
for somebody, for example,
who was molested as a child,
00:20:42.20\00:20:45.67
they did not do anything
to cause that to happen.
00:20:45.71\00:20:48.94
But they still have a
part in this resentment,
00:20:48.98\00:20:51.18
you know, what that
part is in every resentment,
00:20:51.21\00:20:53.82
I refused to forgive.
00:20:53.85\00:20:55.65
Yeah. That's my part.
00:20:55.68\00:20:57.42
I choose to hang on
to that and I need to see
00:20:57.45\00:21:01.06
that I'm hanging
on to these things.
00:21:01.09\00:21:02.99
I need to see that I
caused many of these things.
00:21:03.02\00:21:06.23
I see that my
behavior put me in a position
00:21:06.26\00:21:08.93
to be hurt by other people
00:21:08.96\00:21:10.90
or you know and
did that have a part.
00:21:10.93\00:21:13.60
Again not that anyone's
behavior put them in a position
00:21:13.64\00:21:18.77
to be molested, that's
not what you're saying.
00:21:18.81\00:21:20.14
No, exactly.
00:21:20.18\00:21:21.51
You're saying by your behavior
of holding on to something...
00:21:21.54\00:21:24.28
Yes. Is creating the hurt.
00:21:24.31\00:21:26.51
And creating the drinking,
when I'm resentful I drink
00:21:26.55\00:21:30.19
because I need to get relief.
00:21:30.22\00:21:31.92
So resentment is
the number one thing
00:21:31.95\00:21:33.72
that gets alcoholics drunk.
00:21:33.76\00:21:35.49
And we have to be
freer, free of that anger.
00:21:35.52\00:21:38.06
Isn't this true of all of us
00:21:38.09\00:21:41.03
that resentment is now,
00:21:41.06\00:21:45.13
you know, I know
that Paul wrote and said,
00:21:45.17\00:21:50.17
"Forgetting what is
behind I press forward."
00:21:50.21\00:21:52.67
I know that Isaiah
says, you know, God says,
00:21:52.71\00:21:55.28
"Don't dwell on the
past, release the past.
00:21:55.31\00:21:58.15
I want to do a
new thing in you."
00:21:58.18\00:21:59.51
But what we've got to do
00:21:59.55\00:22:01.02
before God can do
a new thing in us,
00:22:01.05\00:22:04.49
is we've got to go
back and expose the root
00:22:04.52\00:22:07.42
and so often, you know,
00:22:07.46\00:22:09.32
we as Christians
don't want to revisit
00:22:09.36\00:22:11.23
or anybody, who wants to revisit
00:22:11.26\00:22:12.86
something that's painful,
00:22:12.89\00:22:14.30
but this is the route
where you've been wounded,
00:22:14.33\00:22:16.60
you hold a resentment,
00:22:16.63\00:22:18.27
this is the root of the problem.
00:22:18.30\00:22:20.90
There is
bitterness, there's anger,
00:22:20.94\00:22:22.64
and I don't know,
sometimes you said,
00:22:22.67\00:22:24.84
that you're
choosing not to forgive,
00:22:24.87\00:22:26.88
some people have no
idea how to forgive.
00:22:26.91\00:22:28.94
Exactly.
00:22:28.98\00:22:30.31
If you've been
molested as a child.
00:22:30.35\00:22:32.48
If you've gone through this.
00:22:32.51\00:22:33.92
You've got no idea
how to let go of this.
00:22:33.95\00:22:37.35
So step four, you're making
this inventory and then seeing,
00:22:37.39\00:22:42.52
was I involved
in any way in this.
00:22:42.56\00:22:45.03
But step five, tell
me how do you let go.
00:22:45.06\00:22:48.36
Well, I could tell you
actually in AA step eight
00:22:48.40\00:22:52.07
is where we let go
of our resentments.
00:22:52.10\00:22:54.30
And that's when we're listing
the people we have harmed.
00:22:54.34\00:22:58.44
We suddenly realize
that as we go before them,
00:22:58.47\00:23:01.44
in many cases we
have harmed them,
00:23:01.48\00:23:03.68
but they have harmed us too.
00:23:03.71\00:23:05.71
And before we let go,
00:23:05.75\00:23:07.98
we make amends for
the harms we have done.
00:23:08.02\00:23:10.85
We need to start by
forgiving them one and all.
00:23:10.89\00:23:14.19
We cannot afford to
hang on to a resentment
00:23:14.22\00:23:16.69
because it will get
us drunk sooner or later.
00:23:16.73\00:23:18.26
Yeah.
00:23:18.29\00:23:19.63
So what
happened in my experience
00:23:19.66\00:23:21.36
is there were some
things, a few things in my life
00:23:21.40\00:23:24.03
where people had
hurt me very deeply.
00:23:24.07\00:23:26.40
And I had no part
00:23:26.43\00:23:27.77
in this except for
hanging on to the anger.
00:23:27.80\00:23:30.81
And in some cases,
people have come up to the point
00:23:30.84\00:23:34.11
where they just realize
00:23:34.14\00:23:35.61
they don't have it
in them to forgive,
00:23:35.64\00:23:38.15
the wound is so deep.
00:23:38.18\00:23:40.15
For example, a
child that's molested.
00:23:40.18\00:23:43.79
How in the world do you
forgive somebody for that?
00:23:43.82\00:23:46.39
Especially if the
person has perhaps passed on...
00:23:46.42\00:23:48.56
Exactly
00:23:48.59\00:23:49.92
And it was a grandfather
that did or something.
00:23:49.96\00:23:51.29
Exactly.
00:23:51.33\00:23:52.66
So what AA says is,
ask God for forgiveness...
00:23:52.69\00:23:56.77
Yeah, it is a gift.
To give to that person.
00:23:56.80\00:24:00.60
Yes, yes.
00:24:00.64\00:24:01.97
Whether they asked
for it or not ask God,
00:24:02.00\00:24:05.24
I don't have it in
me but I know you do.
00:24:05.27\00:24:07.74
You can forgive this person.
00:24:07.78\00:24:09.74
Give me your forgiveness
and I will pass it on to them,
00:24:09.78\00:24:13.31
and somehow as
it goes through me,
00:24:13.35\00:24:16.55
it cleans out that
resentment out of my heart.
00:24:16.58\00:24:17.99
Amen.
00:24:18.02\00:24:19.35
It heals that pain and
it changes me on the inside
00:24:19.39\00:24:24.06
when I receive forgiveness
and pass it on to someone else,
00:24:24.09\00:24:28.43
it heals my heart.
00:24:28.46\00:24:29.80
That's where I found
00:24:29.83\00:24:31.23
that kind of
forgiveness was in step eight.
00:24:31.27\00:24:34.27
But you're back on step four.
00:24:34.30\00:24:35.64
Let me quickly add a few things.
00:24:35.67\00:24:37.81
The second list
we do is a fear list.
00:24:37.84\00:24:40.61
We list our
fears and next to them
00:24:40.64\00:24:43.01
if we know why we have
that fear we actually list it.
00:24:43.04\00:24:46.85
The third part of that
step is a difficult one
00:24:46.88\00:24:50.55
and that's a sex inventory.
00:24:50.59\00:24:52.75
Alcoholics tend to
be very promiscuous.
00:24:52.79\00:24:55.56
We have to list every
person we can remember
00:24:55.59\00:24:59.19
that we have had some
sort of sexual relation with
00:24:59.23\00:25:02.53
and the harm we have
caused them we look at,
00:25:02.56\00:25:05.13
did I arouse
jealousy or suspicion
00:25:05.17\00:25:07.94
or bitterness in that person.
00:25:07.97\00:25:09.64
Did I give them a
reason to be angry with me?
00:25:09.67\00:25:12.61
Did I hurt them in what way
00:25:12.64\00:25:14.48
and what should I
have done instead.
00:25:14.51\00:25:16.28
And we list all
these things out.
00:25:16.31\00:25:18.41
In the end, those three
lists deal with the four things
00:25:18.45\00:25:21.98
that will get alcoholics
drunk faster than anything.
00:25:22.02\00:25:24.89
Number one, resentment, anger.
00:25:24.92\00:25:27.06
Number two, fear
00:25:27.09\00:25:28.62
and the sex
inventory deals with the things
00:25:28.66\00:25:30.73
we feel guilty
about and ashamed about.
00:25:30.76\00:25:33.23
So anger, fear, guilt and shame
00:25:33.26\00:25:35.76
are dealt with in this
force that in a marvelous way.
00:25:35.80\00:25:39.57
To me, it looks
like laser surgery.
00:25:39.60\00:25:42.80
You're not hurting
everything around it,
00:25:42.84\00:25:44.74
you go straight to the core
00:25:44.77\00:25:46.64
of what makes a
person want to drink,
00:25:46.68\00:25:49.18
want to seek relief
00:25:49.21\00:25:50.78
from the anger, the
fear, the guilt and shame
00:25:50.81\00:25:53.21
and you deal
specifically with those things.
00:25:53.25\00:25:55.82
You don't need 20
years of psychotherapy
00:25:55.85\00:25:58.19
to come up with
probably nothing on that list.
00:25:58.22\00:26:01.36
You need something simple
and AA is simple at its core.
00:26:01.39\00:26:04.73
You know, I think
00:26:04.76\00:26:06.09
that there's
probably a number of people,
00:26:06.13\00:26:07.73
Bob, that would really benefit
from this because, you know,
00:26:07.76\00:26:14.27
we're talking about alcohol,
alcoholism specifically,
00:26:14.30\00:26:18.47
but there's many
other addictions,
00:26:18.51\00:26:20.24
including the
addiction of overworking.
00:26:20.28\00:26:22.78
I know for myself personally
00:26:22.81\00:26:26.01
because of things that
had happened in my past.
00:26:26.05\00:26:28.68
What I exhibited, what
I manifested was overwork
00:26:28.72\00:26:33.92
because I felt
like I was in control
00:26:33.96\00:26:35.76
as long as I was, you know,
00:26:35.79\00:26:37.99
being productive and
giving in to something,
00:26:38.03\00:26:40.50
so this is an inventory
and many of these steps.
00:26:40.53\00:26:44.33
It sounds like steps
that we've all been through
00:26:44.37\00:26:48.77
or have to go
through for healing
00:26:48.80\00:26:51.17
no matter what your problem is,
00:26:51.21\00:26:54.51
so we're down to one minute.
00:26:54.54\00:26:56.85
I cannot believe this.
00:26:56.88\00:26:59.85
Were the people involved
00:26:59.88\00:27:01.55
in founding this of a particular
00:27:01.58\00:27:05.75
or where they
Christian or they...
00:27:05.79\00:27:09.92
They were both
exposed to a group
00:27:09.96\00:27:11.63
called the Oxford groups,
which was a Christian group.
00:27:11.66\00:27:14.56
But honestly Dr. Bob who
was one of the co-founders.
00:27:14.60\00:27:20.07
He was a religious man,
he went to church every week
00:27:20.10\00:27:23.14
and he had tried to get sober,
00:27:23.17\00:27:24.64
but he was missing a
piece of the puzzle that Bill,
00:27:24.67\00:27:27.61
who was a totally
un-churched agnostic
00:27:27.64\00:27:30.15
when he came to believe
in God, gave him the solution
00:27:30.18\00:27:33.98
and that is he
needed to be convinced
00:27:34.02\00:27:36.72
that alcoholism was a
deadly, fatal, progressive,
00:27:36.75\00:27:39.92
incurable disease and
that's exactly what happened,
00:27:39.95\00:27:42.76
when he was desperate enough,
00:27:42.79\00:27:44.86
then he applied the
spiritual principles
00:27:44.89\00:27:47.30
with a willingness
00:27:47.33\00:27:48.66
he'd never been
able to muster before.
00:27:48.70\00:27:50.93
And the two of
them got sober together
00:27:50.97\00:27:53.23
and formed what we now
know is Alcoholics Anonymous.
00:27:53.27\00:27:56.10
Bob, thank you so much
for being again with us today,
00:27:56.14\00:27:59.17
and we'd like you
to come back next week
00:27:59.21\00:28:01.24
so that we can continue.
00:28:01.28\00:28:03.75
We've gone through the
first three, four steps,
00:28:03.78\00:28:06.65
first four steps but,
that's only out of 12,
00:28:06.68\00:28:10.15
we're gonna have to
talk fast next time.
00:28:10.19\00:28:13.19
Thank you so
much for joining us.
00:28:13.22\00:28:15.02
And our heart, I
just want you to know
00:28:15.06\00:28:17.26
that our hearts and
our prayers are with you
00:28:17.29\00:28:19.93
and we know that God
can give you victory.
00:28:19.96\00:28:23.16