Do you know anyone
who is self-medicating,
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perhaps their drug of choice
is alcohol, maybe it's you.
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Well, we want you to know
that God gives you a way out,
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and today we're going to be
talking on Issues and Answers
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about turning that
problem over to God
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and letting Him be in control
of your recovery, join us.
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Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
and we welcome you once again
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to Issues and Answers.
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We are talking about a topic
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that is in my
opinion very important,
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because 10 to 20 percent
of the world's population
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suffers from this disease
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and the disease
is called alcoholism.
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This is something
that we're very grateful
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to our guest who is here,
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who is a member of
Alcoholics Anonymous,
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and to, according
to their tradition,
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they do not want
anyone to go forward
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trying to bring
attention to themselves
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so they believe in anonymity
and we are going to keep him
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out of the spotlight so
to speak he'll be shadowed.
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So there's nothing
wrong with our lights
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or nothing wrong with your eyes.
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We're just
honoring his anonymity.
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But please help me to
welcome our special guest Bob.
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Bob, thank you for returning.
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Last time we were talking
about your 11 year journey
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as an alcoholic.
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How far it had taken you
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into just really you
were getting into a pit,
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and I know a little bit
more about your testimony
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that we're not
talking about here.
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But we were talking about
how you got involved with AA.
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Coming from a Christian family,
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you already knew about the Lord.
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But even though you
were calling on the Lord,
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you weren't educated
enough to know the steps
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to really surrender to God
or you weren't ready I guess,
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because I think it
takes an alcoholic to minister
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to another alcoholic.
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You're right.
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So we believe
you've convinced me
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at least that the 12
steps of Alcoholics Anonymous
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are filled with
Christian principles,
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based on biblical
principles if you will.
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So how did you, just
jump in here and tell us,
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how did you get
from the first meeting
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that you went to
where there was a disconnect
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because it was young people
telling about traumatic stories
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and that didn't fit your model.
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How did you then end
up in another AA meeting?
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Well, Shelley, first of
all, it's great to be back,
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and I'm happy to be here.
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I also want to add
just a little caveat
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that I should have said
the last time and that is,
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I do not speak for
Alcoholics Anonymous.
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Okay.
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I'm sharing with you
my experience with AA...
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Absolutely.
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No one actually speaks for AA.
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We don't have spokespeople,
we don't have a president,
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we don't operate that way.
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It's a very loosely knit
group of groups if you will
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who get together to
share their experience,
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strength and
hope with each other.
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But none of us is a
spokesperson for AA.
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My story basically,
what I share the last time
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is I managed to find my
way to a young people's meeting
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where I couldn't relate
to the events in their lives.
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But I left that
meeting and I told my friend
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that took me
actually tied the monkey ass.
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He told me where he was going
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and I asked if I
could go with him
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which to me is
God working in my life
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because normally
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I wouldn't have
any interest in that.
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But on the way
home, I said, "You know,
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I'm really glad you
took me to this meeting."
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And he says, "Why is that?"
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I said, "Well, I
know I drink too much,
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but at least I know
I'm not an alcoholic."
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Wow.
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And he got real
quiet, you know, it's funny.
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He started
letting my phone calls
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go to voicemail after that
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and I couldn't seem to get
him to go out drinking with me
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and it kind of made me mad.
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A few months
later, I walk into a bar
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on a Sunday
afternoon drunk out of my mind.
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I've been
drinking all day at home
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and I'm not one
of those drinkers
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that can just sit at
the bar and drink quietly.
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I have to talk to people.
I'm that kind of a drunk.
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And so I looked around the
bar and I found some people
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I thought I knew and I went,
and I sat down at the table.
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There was a couple
that I thought I knew
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and the guy that I didn't know
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and suddenly as I'm
joining their conversation
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or trying to I realize,
I don't know these people
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but already being
in a drunken state,
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I didn't care.
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And they were polite enough
not to tell me to get lost
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but within a couple of minutes
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they decided it
was time for them to go
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and I was left face to
face with the man I didn't know.
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And of course the polite
thing to do in drinking circles
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is to offer that person a drink
and the waitress was coming by,
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and I asked her to get
him anything he wanted,
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I was going to pay for him
to have a drink and he says,
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"I don't drink" and I
said, "What is wrong with you."
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Do you know where
you are, you're in a bar.
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And I ordered
several shots of something
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and he finally accepted a cola.
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And we sat there
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and I started talking to this
total stranger about everything
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and I don't even
know what I was saying.
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But I do remember
that at some point,
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I ran out of conversation
and suddenly I said,
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"You'll never guess
what I did the other day."
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And he says, ''What's that?"
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And I said,
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"I went to a meeting
of Alcoholics Anonymous.
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And his head just snapped
to attention he said, "Really?"
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And suddenly I had his interest
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and I did not understand
anybody else's anonymity.
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So I proceeded to tell
him everything that I heard
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in that meeting.
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And he was very polite.
He listened with interest.
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But as the conversation went on,
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I started telling him
about my miserable life.
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And I'm one of
those crying drunks.
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That's just not very
fun to go out drinking with
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because, at some point
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I get very model and very
weepy and whatever you know
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crying in your
beer kind of thing
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and I just told
them out and look at me.
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I don't even know you.
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I don't know why
I'm talking to you.
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I'm just so drunk,
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I've been drunk
all day and I did,
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you know, I'm sorry man, I just,
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I don't know what's wrong.
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I don't know what's
wrong. I can't stop drinking.
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And that man looked at me
and he says, "You know, Bob,
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I want to tell you a story."
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He proceeds to tell me his story
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about how his
drinking almost killed him
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and how he found recovery
in Alcoholics Anonymous.
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And that surprised me,
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and then he
pulled out a medallion,
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it was a seven year medallion.
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And he gave it to me
and insisted that I keep it
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and he said, "I
want you to have this,
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it means that I've stayed sober
a day at a time for seven years
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but I want you to have it
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because I think
if you ever want help
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that Alcoholics
Anonymous can help you too.
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And he gave me his phone number
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which I thought
was a little strange.
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And he got up and
he walked out sober.
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And if that wasn't weird enough,
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I walk over to the
bartender and I said,
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"Man you don't believe
what just, what just happened?
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I knew the bartender
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so we had been
drinking buddies for years
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and he threw some
really wild parties.
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And so I showed
him the seven year coin
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and he looked at it and he says,
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"Where did you get this."
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And I told him the
other guy's story of course,
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still don't
understand anonymity.
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And he listened politely
and he handed the coin back
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with a smile on his face,
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he stuck his
hand into his pocket
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and pulled out a three year coin
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and says, Bob he says,
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"I've been sober for
three and a half years of day
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at a time in AA, it works."
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Yes, that blows my mind
that if somebody or a pedophile.
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You wouldn't put
them to work in a nursery.
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It blows my mind that
someone who is an alcoholic
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could be a bartender.
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But it goes to the
power of true recovery.
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Let's talk about well,
you've got into AA then,
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and that's an amazing story.
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I love that story.
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And I believe God had
somebody there for you.
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Exactly. You know
it's just amazing.
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Tell us about the
first step to recovery
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and how you reacted to
learning that first step?
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Okay, let me
just finish the story
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with a little,
little tiny detail.
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The next day, I
was at another meeting
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this time with the bartender.
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Praise God.
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And eventually, the
bartender lost his job,
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he was accused of
stealing money from the bar
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when he was not.
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And he told me
years later he says,
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"You know God did for me
what I could not do for myself.
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The money was
too good in that bar
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for me to quit that job.
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But he made sure
that I got out of it
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before I was in trouble myself."
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So, you know,
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I've wondered out loud one time.
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What were those two
guys doing in a bar?
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Sober members of
Alcoholics Anonymous
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and I'm gonna say had
no business in that bar.
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And I said this one time
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as I told my
story in an old timer
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and they had been
sober many years stood up
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in the back of the room
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and interrupted me
which never happens,
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when somebody is
telling their story
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and he says, "Son.
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I can tell you
why they were there."
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He says, "They were
there to save your life."
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Amen.
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And I have to tell
you that's the power.
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That's the lengths
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that God goes to
find one of His kids,
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He knew that that day in
particular, I'd be ready.
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And He made sure
not just once but twice.
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So I live that
reality every day.
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How do I get to
step one? I hit bottom.
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That's a term, we
use in AA all the time.
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And really my
bottom was much higher
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maybe than a
lot of other people.
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There are high
bottoms and low bottoms in AA.
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There are people who still
have their families, their car,
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their homes, their jobs,
00:10:22.72\00:10:25.09
but yet it's a
spiritual and mental bottom.
00:10:25.12\00:10:28.32
You know the
stress of that life.
00:10:28.36\00:10:31.23
The longing, the
hole in our hearts
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is so bad that we
can't live another day
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and that's when we hit bottom.
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There are others who
take it so much further,
00:10:38.50\00:10:40.84
they lose family, friends, jobs,
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live on the
streets, live in the parks,
00:10:43.27\00:10:45.27
and unfortunately
that was the concept
00:10:45.31\00:10:47.44
that I had of what
a true alcoholic was,
00:10:47.48\00:10:49.64
was the person
living on the park bench
00:10:49.68\00:10:51.61
covering
themselves with newspapers.
00:10:51.65\00:10:53.55
Now let me ask a quick question.
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So yours, you
didn't lose your family?
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You didn't, you
didn't hit that bottom there,
00:10:59.12\00:11:01.56
I know you were having a
lot of physical problems...
00:11:01.59\00:11:04.43
Yes.
00:11:04.46\00:11:05.79
More mental emotional and,
00:11:05.83\00:11:07.40
and of course the
spiritual problem.
00:11:07.43\00:11:08.76
But were you at all aware
00:11:08.80\00:11:10.97
even though your
family never said to you,
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enough of you out of our,
00:11:14.47\00:11:15.84
you know we washed
our hands if you...
00:11:15.87\00:11:17.97
Were you aware of how badly
you were hurting your family?
00:11:18.01\00:11:23.48
Yes, and that
caused more drinking.
00:11:23.51\00:11:25.61
Okay. So the guilt.
00:11:25.65\00:11:27.48
The guilt and the
shame was just awful.
00:11:27.52\00:11:30.02
My family never
brought up alcoholism to me.
00:11:30.05\00:11:33.86
They never did
for whatever reasons
00:11:33.89\00:11:37.86
and it wouldn't
have mattered if they had
00:11:37.89\00:11:39.49
because the one key
earmark of an alcoholic
00:11:39.53\00:11:45.10
is called denial.
00:11:45.13\00:11:48.10
As far as I know,
alcoholism is the only disease
00:11:48.14\00:11:51.37
that affects you physically,
mentally, spiritually,
00:11:51.41\00:11:55.11
hurts you so bad
every bit of evidence
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and then large liver cirrhosis.
00:11:57.75\00:12:00.72
You know loss of jobs,
00:12:00.75\00:12:02.15
car wrecks, police, prison time,
00:12:02.18\00:12:05.49
the one thing
that every alcoholic
00:12:05.52\00:12:07.42
suffers from is denial.
00:12:07.46\00:12:08.99
We believe even as we're dying
00:12:09.02\00:12:11.29
that there's
nothing wrong with us,
00:12:11.33\00:12:13.23
that alcohol is actually
what's keeping us together
00:12:13.26\00:12:15.56
instead of what's killing us.
00:12:15.60\00:12:17.43
So my denial was so...
00:12:17.47\00:12:19.10
Is it fair to say that you
lay blame on everybody else
00:12:19.13\00:12:23.14
and everything else?
00:12:23.17\00:12:24.51
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
00:12:24.54\00:12:26.14
It's never our fault,
00:12:26.17\00:12:27.64
it's if you had my
job, you drink too.
00:12:27.68\00:12:30.25
If you had my
boss, if you had my wife,
00:12:30.28\00:12:32.51
if you had my conditions you,
you, you would have to drink.
00:12:32.55\00:12:36.35
You know in our mind
that's the only logical thing
00:12:36.38\00:12:38.89
and it's a form of
insanity, there's no doubt.
00:12:38.92\00:12:42.06
The first step came
00:12:42.09\00:12:43.63
when I finally
put the shovel down
00:12:43.66\00:12:45.19
so to speak, you know,
00:12:45.23\00:12:46.56
they have this
thing in AA that says,
00:12:46.59\00:12:47.93
"You hit bottom
when you stop digging."
00:12:47.96\00:12:50.13
I've dug a deep hole
00:12:50.17\00:12:52.30
and the sides have
not caved in on me yet,
00:12:52.33\00:12:54.80
but it was only
a matter of time,
00:12:54.84\00:12:56.97
I came into AA,
I hadn't had a DUI,
00:12:57.01\00:12:59.07
I hadn't been in
trouble with the police.
00:12:59.11\00:13:00.61
I hadn't lost a job
and they said, "Yet."
00:13:00.64\00:13:03.11
Yeah.
00:13:03.14\00:13:04.48
You haven't had
these things happen yet,
00:13:04.51\00:13:06.82
but I could connect the dots
and I saw where it was going,
00:13:06.85\00:13:10.02
I saw where it was headed.
00:13:10.05\00:13:11.99
And it was not only
headed for all those troubles,
00:13:12.02\00:13:14.09
it was headed for
death, and when I was convinced
00:13:14.12\00:13:17.43
that I was going to die,
if I didn't do something else,
00:13:17.46\00:13:21.16
then I reached out for help.
00:13:21.20\00:13:23.10
My particular step
one experience came
00:13:23.13\00:13:25.60
after I had been
dry for a few months
00:13:25.63\00:13:28.74
and I had one more drink.
00:13:28.77\00:13:30.94
And that led to a blackout.
00:13:30.97\00:13:33.68
And I came out of a blackout.
00:13:33.71\00:13:37.01
This is kind of
not fun to talk about
00:13:37.05\00:13:39.35
but I was throwing up
blood, copious amounts of blood,
00:13:39.38\00:13:43.89
and I thought I'm dying
of esophageal hemorrhaging
00:13:43.92\00:13:46.22
or something I'm going to die.
00:13:46.25\00:13:48.32
And in the
middle of that blackout,
00:13:48.36\00:13:49.86
which really you
don't remember at all.
00:13:49.89\00:13:51.89
I had a period of time
where I was stone cold sober
00:13:51.93\00:13:54.60
in my mind.
00:13:54.63\00:13:55.96
We call it a moment of clarity.
I saw myself in the mirror.
00:13:56.00\00:14:00.10
The wreck of a
human being I had become.
00:14:00.14\00:14:02.47
I had blood and
vomit all over me.
00:14:02.50\00:14:04.17
It was just an
awful sight, but it is,
00:14:04.21\00:14:07.48
it was as if I
was stone cold sober
00:14:07.51\00:14:09.61
staring myself in the face,
00:14:09.64\00:14:11.55
and I cried out to God for help.
00:14:11.58\00:14:13.62
I said, "God help me.
00:14:13.65\00:14:15.38
Don't let me die like
this, any other way God,
00:14:15.42\00:14:18.05
but please not like this."
00:14:18.09\00:14:19.89
The most sincere honest
humble prayer of my life,
00:14:19.92\00:14:23.26
"God help me."
00:14:23.29\00:14:25.19
I believe that
our Father in heaven
00:14:25.23\00:14:27.50
has a prayer
that He cannot resist
00:14:27.53\00:14:29.76
and that is one of
us saying God help me.
00:14:29.80\00:14:31.67
So recap what is step one?
00:14:31.70\00:14:35.10
Step one is we admitted
00:14:35.14\00:14:38.17
that we were
powerless over alcohol
00:14:38.21\00:14:40.28
that our lives have
become unmanageable.
00:14:40.31\00:14:42.54
Okay, so and that's a
huge step because somebody...
00:14:42.58\00:14:46.65
Once again, I
just want to say this
00:14:46.68\00:14:48.22
that being clean and sober,
00:14:48.25\00:14:50.32
quitting drinking
for a period of time
00:14:50.35\00:14:52.39
is only one half
of the first step
00:14:52.42\00:14:54.22
because if you
don't get to that point
00:14:54.26\00:14:57.03
where you come out of denial.
00:14:57.06\00:14:58.89
I mean some people can be
clean and sober and think,
00:14:58.93\00:15:00.96
"Hey, I'm handling this okay."
00:15:01.00\00:15:02.33
That's right.
00:15:02.36\00:15:03.70
But you got to get to that point
00:15:03.73\00:15:05.07
where you're out of denial,
00:15:05.10\00:15:07.07
and once you're out of denial
and recognize you need help.
00:15:07.10\00:15:11.07
So you, you had
that moment of clarity,
00:15:11.11\00:15:14.74
you reached out.
00:15:14.78\00:15:16.31
What was step two?
00:15:16.34\00:15:19.71
Well, after admitting that
I could do nothing for myself,
00:15:19.75\00:15:24.05
which really is
biblical as well.
00:15:24.09\00:15:26.09
You know, we
cannot help ourselves,
00:15:26.12\00:15:27.86
we need a savior.
00:15:27.89\00:15:30.06
I came to a meeting
00:15:30.09\00:15:31.56
and I remember
it was on step two.
00:15:31.59\00:15:33.93
And I read the step and
I got really suspicious.
00:15:33.96\00:15:38.43
I thought, oh, oh,
00:15:38.47\00:15:40.10
they're going to
talk about God, you know.
00:15:40.14\00:15:42.30
Step two is came to believe
00:15:42.34\00:15:43.97
that a power
greater than ourselves
00:15:44.01\00:15:45.81
could restore us the
sanity, and I thought,
00:15:45.84\00:15:48.04
you're not fooling me,
you're talking about God,
00:15:48.08\00:15:50.11
I know you are even
though it wasn't mentioned.
00:15:50.15\00:15:52.81
This is so interesting because,
I know that the organization
00:15:52.85\00:15:57.29
if you will, the structure
of AA is such that they don't
00:15:57.32\00:16:02.12
specifically
call on Jesus Christ
00:16:02.16\00:16:04.79
because they
want to welcome people
00:16:04.83\00:16:07.60
who are agnostics,
people who are Hindus,
00:16:07.63\00:16:10.47
people who are
Buddhists whatever.
00:16:10.50\00:16:13.94
But then what we
talked about last time,
00:16:13.97\00:16:17.24
so many of these
people doing that finding...
00:16:17.27\00:16:18.97
Absolutely.
00:16:19.01\00:16:20.34
The God, Jesus Christ as well,
but here you called out on God.
00:16:20.38\00:16:24.55
Yes.
00:16:24.58\00:16:25.91
When you had that
moment of clarity,
00:16:25.95\00:16:27.38
but now you're at a meeting
00:16:27.42\00:16:28.88
and it's you're
putting the brakes on.
00:16:28.92\00:16:31.59
So was it because
even though you came
00:16:31.62\00:16:35.49
from a sincere Christian family,
00:16:35.52\00:16:38.19
did you feel pressure
to be "religious" or...?
00:16:38.23\00:16:43.23
None.
00:16:43.26\00:16:44.60
Never, so why do
you have the breaks on?
00:16:44.63\00:16:47.74
Because I'm used
to running the show.
00:16:47.77\00:16:50.24
Oh, oh. I was my own God.
00:16:50.27\00:16:52.64
As an alcoholic,
every alcoholic feels like
00:16:52.67\00:16:55.88
they have to be in control
00:16:55.91\00:16:57.81
and to start
believing in a God...
00:16:57.85\00:17:01.98
Well, for some people
00:17:02.02\00:17:03.35
it's the whole
business of a personal God.
00:17:03.39\00:17:05.42
They have suffered
horribly at the hands of others,
00:17:05.45\00:17:08.99
many times at the
hands of Christians.
00:17:09.02\00:17:12.49
They have joined churches
and been kicked out of churches
00:17:12.53\00:17:15.56
or rejected
because they can't seem
00:17:15.60\00:17:17.30
to get their
handle on alcoholism
00:17:17.33\00:17:20.60
and they feel
worthless to start with,
00:17:20.64\00:17:23.07
and then of course,
if it's reinforced by
00:17:23.10\00:17:25.84
even well meaning Christians
00:17:25.87\00:17:27.21
that say, "You know, you
need to get this under control."
00:17:27.24\00:17:29.78
If I had any power to
control my alcoholism,
00:17:29.81\00:17:32.51
I wouldn't need to go to church,
00:17:32.55\00:17:33.88
I wouldn't need God.
00:17:33.92\00:17:35.25
But I had to be
beaten down to the point,
00:17:35.28\00:17:37.55
where I couldn't, I
couldn't wiggle out of it.
00:17:37.59\00:17:40.22
I had to find a solution
00:17:40.26\00:17:41.72
because I could not live my life
00:17:41.76\00:17:43.59
one more day the
way I was living.
00:17:43.63\00:17:45.29
Well, probably, you
know, I have to just laugh
00:17:45.33\00:17:47.30
because you just
got through saying,
00:17:47.33\00:17:49.40
step two was hard for
you because now you're saying
00:17:49.43\00:17:52.57
that there is a
power higher than you,
00:17:52.60\00:17:56.97
who will bring you
out of your insanity
00:17:57.01\00:17:59.17
and you're sitting here saying
00:17:59.21\00:18:00.54
"Well, I like to be in control."
00:18:00.58\00:18:01.91
And I'm thinking
that's hysterical
00:18:01.94\00:18:03.75
because you were
totally out of control,
00:18:03.78\00:18:06.92
but you thought
you were in control.
00:18:06.95\00:18:08.52
Anything you try to control
is out of control already.
00:18:08.55\00:18:11.39
Okay, that's good. Okay.
00:18:11.42\00:18:12.99
Well, what happened was
00:18:13.02\00:18:14.36
that it wasn't a question
of whether I believed in God.
00:18:14.39\00:18:17.26
The problem was I had
tried God on my alcoholism
00:18:17.29\00:18:21.10
and they had
failed me miserably.
00:18:21.13\00:18:22.93
I had been to
church, even drunk before
00:18:22.96\00:18:26.27
many, many times
hung over in church
00:18:26.30\00:18:29.34
begging and
pleading for God for help
00:18:29.37\00:18:31.51
and the help never came.
00:18:31.54\00:18:32.97
The problem I found
out later was because
00:18:33.01\00:18:35.14
I refused to humble myself.
00:18:35.18\00:18:36.95
I refused to say, "God,
00:18:36.98\00:18:38.85
You are the only way
I'm going to get over this."
00:18:38.88\00:18:42.72
I thought I needed His help.
00:18:42.75\00:18:45.82
No, I needed to surrender
and there's a big difference
00:18:45.85\00:18:49.06
between God help me
and God help me do this.
00:18:49.09\00:18:54.26
You know when I
said, "God help me.
00:18:54.30\00:18:56.46
Don't let me die like this."
00:18:56.50\00:18:57.83
I surrendered completely
and that's when I got sober,
00:18:57.87\00:19:01.07
but now there was another step.
00:19:01.10\00:19:02.77
I came in
believing there was God.
00:19:02.80\00:19:04.84
There was a God.
00:19:04.87\00:19:06.21
But I was sure that
He did not believe in me.
00:19:06.24\00:19:08.51
Why?
00:19:08.54\00:19:09.88
Because how many
times have I said, "God,
00:19:09.91\00:19:11.28
if you get me out of this
mess, I will never drink again."
00:19:11.31\00:19:14.48
Could I possibly
keep that promise?
00:19:14.52\00:19:16.18
Of course not.
00:19:16.22\00:19:17.69
You know, I was in
the throes of alcoholism.
00:19:17.72\00:19:19.89
I did not understand
00:19:19.92\00:19:21.26
that every
single area of my life
00:19:21.29\00:19:23.43
needs to be surrendered
for me to stay sober.
00:19:23.46\00:19:26.70
I didn't realize
how much I needed him,
00:19:26.73\00:19:28.90
I knew I needed
Him, but not how much.
00:19:28.93\00:19:31.67
And that same day and
at the end of the meeting
00:19:31.70\00:19:36.60
started talking to me
00:19:36.64\00:19:37.97
and somehow or
another we got on this topic
00:19:38.01\00:19:39.97
of the second step and I
said, "Well, you know, I just...
00:19:40.01\00:19:43.78
If this is how it's going to be,
00:19:43.81\00:19:45.15
I don't think I can do AA."
00:19:45.18\00:19:47.05
He says, "Why not?"
00:19:47.08\00:19:48.42
I said, "Well, I already
have my beliefs about God."
00:19:48.45\00:19:52.09
He said, "That's not a problem.
00:19:52.12\00:19:53.69
We don't care what you
believe or don't believe,
00:19:53.72\00:19:55.26
that's up to you."
00:19:55.29\00:19:56.62
And I said, "Well,
I've tried church before
00:19:56.66\00:19:59.26
and it didn't work."
00:19:59.29\00:20:00.73
And he says, "Bobby,
let me ask you a question.
00:20:00.76\00:20:02.76
Do you think that maybe
somewhere along the way,
00:20:02.80\00:20:06.13
you might have gotten
00:20:06.17\00:20:07.77
the wrong impression about God."
00:20:07.80\00:20:10.11
And I said, "Oh, no,
no, no you don't understand,
00:20:10.14\00:20:12.17
I was raised with
the God of the New
00:20:12.21\00:20:13.84
and the Old Testament,
I know all those stories.
00:20:13.88\00:20:16.24
I know God."
00:20:16.28\00:20:17.61
And there is my
arrogance speaking, right?
00:20:17.65\00:20:19.78
He says, "Do you think
00:20:19.81\00:20:21.18
that your God would be too upset
00:20:21.22\00:20:23.32
if you chose to tell Him,
00:20:23.35\00:20:25.15
we're going to
wipe the slate clean
00:20:25.19\00:20:27.32
and we're going to start over.
00:20:27.36\00:20:28.69
I'm putting everything I think
I know about you out the door,
00:20:28.72\00:20:32.56
and I dare you to show
me who you really are."
00:20:32.59\00:20:34.60
And I thought, of
course he wouldn't be upset
00:20:34.63\00:20:36.97
but why would I do that.
00:20:37.00\00:20:38.80
I know who God is,
I have godly parents.
00:20:38.83\00:20:41.67
I have been raised
in a Christian home
00:20:41.70\00:20:43.74
and that arrogance was
about to keep me stuck.
00:20:43.77\00:20:47.84
You had information about God,
00:20:47.88\00:20:49.44
you just didn't have
relationship with God.
00:20:49.48\00:20:50.81
Exactly.
00:20:50.85\00:20:52.18
So what I did it
out of desperation
00:20:52.21\00:20:54.85
not too many weeks later,
00:20:54.88\00:20:56.48
as I got on my
knees and I said, "God,
00:20:56.52\00:21:00.19
please put aside everything
I think I know about You,
00:21:00.22\00:21:04.26
and about AA, and about
everything else in my life,
00:21:04.29\00:21:07.23
and about myself,
00:21:07.26\00:21:08.86
and please show me
who You really are."
00:21:08.90\00:21:10.93
And that changed my
life, because at that point
00:21:10.97\00:21:15.64
I started learning
about Him from people in AA,
00:21:15.67\00:21:20.38
not people in my
church, not my parents,
00:21:20.41\00:21:23.55
from people in AA
that I barely knew.
00:21:23.58\00:21:25.81
What I learned from
them was that they had
00:21:25.85\00:21:29.35
a childlike faith
that I had never had.
00:21:29.38\00:21:32.15
They knew Him as their
father that loved them,
00:21:32.19\00:21:36.83
that was patient,
that was always forgiving.
00:21:36.86\00:21:40.20
That was not
demanding perfection out of them
00:21:40.23\00:21:42.73
which is what I
had somehow acquired
00:21:42.76\00:21:45.27
not from my parents by the way,
00:21:45.30\00:21:47.10
but from other
well meaning Christians
00:21:47.14\00:21:49.00
so-called Christians in church
00:21:49.04\00:21:50.94
who had all the
rules laid out for me
00:21:50.97\00:21:53.17
and if I failed on any of them,
00:21:53.21\00:21:54.81
I might as well just give
up because it's all a failure.
00:21:54.84\00:21:57.51
I did not understand
the concept of grace.
00:21:57.55\00:22:00.15
Not at all.
00:22:00.18\00:22:01.58
I found grace and mercy in AA.
00:22:01.62\00:22:05.55
People put up with
me in my crazy thoughts,
00:22:05.59\00:22:07.99
in my crazy
actions, my crazy words
00:22:08.02\00:22:10.33
and they loved
me unconditionally,
00:22:10.36\00:22:11.69
they showed me who God was.
00:22:11.73\00:22:14.10
And from them I was
finally able to say,
00:22:14.13\00:22:17.67
maybe I don't know
everything about God.
00:22:17.70\00:22:19.80
And maybe we can build
a different concept of God
00:22:19.83\00:22:23.07
which of course today is
vastly different than the God
00:22:23.10\00:22:26.17
that I believed
in at that point.
00:22:26.21\00:22:28.04
Bobby, I have to
tell you something.
00:22:28.08\00:22:29.98
I just want to
encourage everyone at home
00:22:30.01\00:22:33.55
who just heard this testimony.
00:22:33.58\00:22:35.88
Please listen to
what he is saying,
00:22:35.92\00:22:37.75
because the Lord also reached me
00:22:37.79\00:22:39.92
and changed my life when he...
00:22:39.95\00:22:43.49
as I am deep in prayer
to several hours every day,
00:22:43.53\00:22:47.60
and one day the Lord
just impressed this thought
00:22:47.63\00:22:49.60
upon my mind.
00:22:49.63\00:22:51.30
He called me to
full time ministry
00:22:51.33\00:22:53.03
but He impressed
this thought upon my mind
00:22:53.07\00:22:55.27
he said, "Forget
what you think you know,
00:22:55.30\00:22:57.24
come sit at my feet, I
will teach you who I am,
00:22:57.27\00:23:01.31
I will teach you about Me."
00:23:01.34\00:23:03.14
And sometimes, even
though we've had truths preached
00:23:03.18\00:23:08.98
or taught to us.
00:23:09.02\00:23:11.85
There are people who
put a spin on those truths
00:23:11.89\00:23:15.82
and it leaves a
wrong perception with us.
00:23:15.86\00:23:18.89
I didn't know a God of grace.
00:23:18.93\00:23:20.93
I mean I grew up in
a completely different
00:23:20.96\00:23:23.73
denomination
than I belong to now.
00:23:23.77\00:23:25.53
I had studied my way out of that
00:23:25.57\00:23:26.97
into non-denominational
and it was God who,
00:23:27.00\00:23:31.84
when he told me
forget what I thought
00:23:31.87\00:23:33.78
I know, He
changed my perspective
00:23:33.81\00:23:37.48
of who He was.
00:23:37.51\00:23:39.11
I knew a lot about God, I felt
00:23:39.15\00:23:41.78
I had a
relationship with Christ,
00:23:41.82\00:23:43.99
none with the Father,
somewhat with the Holy Spirit.
00:23:44.02\00:23:48.12
But that is the
beginning point for everyone
00:23:48.16\00:23:51.86
is to let God
teach you keep going.
00:23:51.89\00:23:54.93
One of the strange things for me
00:23:54.96\00:23:56.60
and I know that most people
00:23:56.63\00:23:58.27
come to the Father
through Jesus Christ.
00:23:58.30\00:24:01.14
I love Jesus but He loved
me in a way that scared me.
00:24:01.17\00:24:05.74
Quite honestly, He terrified me.
00:24:05.77\00:24:07.98
If somebody loves me
enough to die for me,
00:24:08.01\00:24:10.61
I'm scared of that.
00:24:10.65\00:24:11.98
In my alcoholism I
was terrified of having
00:24:12.01\00:24:14.38
that personal
relationship with Jesus.
00:24:14.42\00:24:16.65
And what I found is that
00:24:16.69\00:24:18.99
I could relate to
my Heavenly Father
00:24:19.02\00:24:21.76
from what I was learning in AA
00:24:21.79\00:24:23.39
because I have a wonderful
Christian father on this earth.
00:24:23.43\00:24:26.59
A humble man that
loves me unconditionally
00:24:26.63\00:24:29.43
that is love me with as
close to everlasting love
00:24:29.46\00:24:32.97
as you can imagine
that I could handle.
00:24:33.00\00:24:36.74
And it was through that
that I connected to God,
00:24:36.77\00:24:39.84
the Father, of
course, believing in Jesus,
00:24:39.87\00:24:42.98
but still at arm's length.
00:24:43.01\00:24:44.48
And it took years actually
00:24:44.51\00:24:46.51
to be able to weigh
Jesus Christ into my life
00:24:46.55\00:24:48.58
because I was truly terrified
of what that looks like
00:24:48.62\00:24:52.55
to have somebody so close to you
00:24:52.59\00:24:54.76
that He was ready and willing
and had given His life for me.
00:24:54.79\00:24:59.36
I don't know why
that scared me but it did.
00:24:59.39\00:25:03.23
I had no problem connecting
to God the Father, but I did,
00:25:03.26\00:25:07.60
I did have trouble
connecting to Jesus
00:25:07.64\00:25:09.74
and that was
something that the Holy Spirit
00:25:09.77\00:25:11.47
had to work with me on
that Jesus had that woo me
00:25:11.51\00:25:13.88
and love me until I
was ready to embrace Him.
00:25:13.91\00:25:17.18
I'd say for me it
was just the opposite.
00:25:17.21\00:25:18.55
Exactly.
00:25:18.58\00:25:19.91
Because I never
really had anyone
00:25:19.95\00:25:21.32
who really stood up for me,
I felt her or not abandoned me.
00:25:21.35\00:25:24.82
But when it came
to God the Father,
00:25:24.85\00:25:26.49
I was taught that
he demanded perfection
00:25:26.52\00:25:28.86
and I saw Him as
angry and judgmental
00:25:28.89\00:25:31.79
and I had such a crazy view.
00:25:31.83\00:25:35.13
You know Hebrews 1:3 was
00:25:35.16\00:25:37.07
what actually
delivered me of that
00:25:37.10\00:25:38.83
when I realized that it says,
00:25:38.87\00:25:41.10
"That Jesus was the
exact expression of his being."
00:25:41.14\00:25:45.24
And I thought wow,
so God really help me.
00:25:45.27\00:25:48.54
It is just so
fascinating to hear how even
00:25:48.58\00:25:55.02
when we were
brought up in truths
00:25:55.05\00:25:56.92
or even if you're in the Bible.
00:25:56.95\00:25:58.69
We know as many different
denominations as there are,
00:25:58.72\00:26:01.82
we know that
people get different ideas
00:26:01.86\00:26:06.06
looking at the same material
00:26:06.09\00:26:07.43
that is so important to
go scripture upon scripture,
00:26:07.46\00:26:11.73
precept upon
precept which is what I love
00:26:11.77\00:26:15.74
about what you've shared with me
00:26:15.77\00:26:18.24
and we're getting to here,
00:26:18.27\00:26:20.18
is this program
called "Alcoholics Anonymous"
00:26:20.21\00:26:24.61
is precept upon precept.
00:26:24.65\00:26:27.52
So you've gone through
the first two steps here.
00:26:27.55\00:26:30.19
We're going to have to have
you come back to do some more
00:26:30.22\00:26:32.09
'cause we're
already out of time.
00:26:32.12\00:26:34.36
But the idea is
precept upon precept that,
00:26:34.39\00:26:38.36
there are these
stages, these 12 steps,
00:26:38.39\00:26:41.30
I should be going
in this direction,
00:26:41.33\00:26:42.93
12 steps to recovery.
00:26:42.96\00:26:45.47
And even to the
point of making restitution
00:26:45.50\00:26:49.47
and the accountability.
00:26:49.50\00:26:52.07
So this is
something that we would, Bob,
00:26:52.11\00:26:55.78
I'd love to have you for
many, many more programs,
00:26:55.81\00:26:58.91
because we'd also
like to touch on Al-Anon
00:26:58.95\00:27:01.78
and how powerful the
Al-Anon Family Groups are
00:27:01.82\00:27:07.72
for people who are
living with alcoholics
00:27:07.76\00:27:10.83
or have an alcoholic
in your life to learn
00:27:10.86\00:27:14.10
not to be an enabler,
00:27:14.13\00:27:15.96
to learn how to deal
with it so good program.
00:27:16.00\00:27:20.64
Thank you for joining us.
00:27:20.67\00:27:22.94
For those of you at
home, I pray if there's anyone
00:27:22.97\00:27:27.74
who is watching right now.
00:27:27.78\00:27:29.84
I pray that if this
insanity of alcoholism
00:27:29.88\00:27:33.92
has a grip on you.
00:27:33.95\00:27:35.35
The Bible says,
that God is righteous,
00:27:35.38\00:27:37.69
He will cut you free
from the cords of the wicked
00:27:37.72\00:27:40.49
that bind you.
00:27:40.52\00:27:41.86
But you have to be like
our dear brother Bob here,
00:27:41.89\00:27:46.29
who recognized that
he was out of control,
00:27:46.33\00:27:51.17
recognized that it was something
00:27:51.20\00:27:54.14
that he couldn't handle.
00:27:54.17\00:27:56.10
And then got to the
point where he realized
00:27:56.14\00:27:58.87
it was only by God's power,
00:27:58.91\00:28:01.44
God working in
him to willing to do
00:28:01.48\00:28:04.15
that he could in
fact let go and be healed.
00:28:04.18\00:28:09.48
Join us next time
on Issues and Answers.
00:28:09.52\00:28:13.52