It is estimated 10 to 20 percent
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of the world's population
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has an obsessive-compulsive
disease called "Alcoholism."
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Join us today on
Issues and Answers
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as we discuss this OCD,
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and we discuss how we
can give God all the glory
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because He gives us victory.
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Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn,
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and we welcome you
again to Issues and Answers
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where we will be discussing
a problem that faces humanity,
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and what the Bible
has to say as an answer.
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Today, we're going to do
something a little unique.
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Our guest, our
special guest is name Bob,
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but we are not going
to give you a last name,
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and we're not going to
show you his face entirely.
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He will be in shadow
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because he is a member
of Alcoholics Anonymous
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and we want to
honor his anonymity.
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But this is a gentleman
who has an amazing testimony.
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But mostly it's a
story that gives God glory.
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So let me introduce you
to our special guest Bob.
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Bob, we're so glad that
you're here with us today.
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And you know,
usually we come out here,
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we have some idea
of where we're going.
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And I have this little
blank sheet of paper here,
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I have no idea
where we're going.
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But I invited you
to be on this program
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because recently
someone close to me
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who I know was saved.
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God offered them salvation.
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I know they
overcame their addiction,
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but they never got beyond
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letting go of
this symptomatic thing,
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the way they were
trying to numb their pain,
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the pain remained.
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And you and I
had discussed this,
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and I wished I had known
a little bit more about AA.
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So welcome to the program.
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We're going to
give you free reign,
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but I wish you would
start by just telling us
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a little of your story.
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Well, first of
all, thank you, Shelley,
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it's a pleasure to be here.
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And thank you for helping me
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respect the
tradition of AA of anonymity.
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It's important that we don't
bring attention to ourselves
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as members of
Alcoholics Anonymous.
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We prefer to have
our friends recommend us.
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We don't promote AA
aggressively through the media,
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through celebrities
and those types of things.
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And really has everything to do
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with putting
the brakes on people
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who would gain personal
notoriety or possibly fame
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or personal gain from
their affiliation with AA.
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So AA says, let's
be humble about this,
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let's carry the message without
focusing on the messenger.
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Amen.
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And for me personally,
it's a way to keep my pride
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from getting out of hand
from overcoming, you know,
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the message and then helping
me to think that I'm all that.
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And eventually
getting me back into a drink
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which is what happens to people
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if we let our
pride get in the way,
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we have no need for God.
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It's really a
story all about God.
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And let me tell you a
little bit of my story.
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I've been sober since 1989.
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That's 26 years at this point.
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And it all started for me,
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my drinking
started when I turned 18.
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I was raised in a
good Christian home.
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I have wonderful parents
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who modeled Christianity for me
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every day of my life growing up.
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But at 18 years of age,
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they had moved to another state
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and I was in the college
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where drinking was
not allowed actually.
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But there was an underground
kind of gang of guys and gals
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that would sneak off campus
and find ways to get alcohol.
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And on my 18 birthday,
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it was finally
legal in the state
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that I was in to drink,
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this is how many
years ago it's been I guess.
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And so I went on my birthday,
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my 18th birthday, my friends,
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my party friends as I call them,
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took me to a bar and I
had my first cigarette,
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my first joint of
marijuana, and my first drink,
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all on the same night.
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Now what happened when I took
that first drink was of course,
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I didn't care
for the taste of it,
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but I drank several
drinks in quick succession.
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And all of a sudden,
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the alcohol
traveled to my brain,
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and when it did, I
felt a euphoria, a freedom,
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that's hard to
describe for people
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that have not
had that experience.
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All my life, I'd grown up
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feeling like I was on
the outside looking in.
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I never felt good enough to
be in the company of my peers.
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I always felt like there
was something wrong with me
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that I was, you know, either...
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I don't know it's a
feeling of inadequacy,
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you know, that a lot of
people can relate to growing up.
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And many people
grow out of that,
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but I never had, you know.
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And alcohol allowed me
to act the way I wanted to.
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It made me 10 foot
tall and bulletproof.
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It made me good looking.
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It allowed me to carry on
conversations comfortably.
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And that very
night I drank to excess.
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I drank so much that
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I threw up
several times that night,
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I recall.
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It was
embarrassing, but honestly,
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I didn't care
because it just meant
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that I could go
back and drink more.
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And that's not normal drink.
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Most people have that reaction
when they have a few drinks
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that, you know,
they get a little queasy
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or their head gets a
little light and they're done.
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They want no more to do with it.
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But for me, it was
like, I want a lot more.
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And I didn't care
what price I had to pay.
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I fell in love with
alcohol that first night
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and I promised myself
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that I would do
anything for this feeling
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if I can feel
like this all the time,
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I will do whatever it takes.
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Now, Bob, you were
saying some things.
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Let me just
back up a little bit.
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I've heard a number of people
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who have the
disease of alcoholism.
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And we are going
to call it a disease
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because it is an
obsessive-compulsive disorder.
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This is not just somebody
that is a moderate drinker
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or partier or a heavy drinker.
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I mean, people
can be heavy drinkers
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and not be alcoholics.
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For the alcoholic,
quite often, it is...
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I mean there's two types.
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We've discussed this before,
there's two types, one who...
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the first drink
they take, that's it.
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That's right.
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It's just, they're hooked.
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Others who have,
it's more of an...
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it's kind of like
the difference between
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type 1 diabetes
and type 2 diabetes.
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Others, it's something
that over a some span of time,
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their heavy drinking turns into
a physical and mental problem.
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But why do you...
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before we go into any
further, I want to explain
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why we're talking
about Alcoholics Anonymous.
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I want you to explain
what Alcoholics Anonymous is
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because there are
some Christians who think
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any 12-step program
that you're talking about
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or Alcoholics
Anonymous is void of God.
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So you had this problem
and we'll talk about it.
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Various times how you
disintegrated essentially.
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But what is AA, and why
did you finally choose AA?
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Okay, I think I can
define Alcoholics Anonymous best
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by reading what
we call our preamble.
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Okay.
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Which is a brief
paragraph that explains
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what AA is if you let me.
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It says Alcoholics Anonymous
is a fellowship of men and women
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who share their
experience strength
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and hope with each other
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that they might
solve their common problem
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and help others to
recover from alcoholism.
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The only requirement
for membership is a desire
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to stop drinking.
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There are no dues or
fees for AA membership.
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We are self-supporting
through our own contributions.
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AA is not allied with any
sect, denomination, politics,
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organization, or institution,
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does not wish to
engage in any controversy,
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neither endorses
nor opposes any causes.
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Our primary
purpose is to stay sober
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and help other
alcoholics to achieve sobriety.
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There's a lot
packed into that paragraph.
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But it's a good
definition of what AA is.
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Every group in AA is autonomous.
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We do not have a
president who tells us
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how to run our
meetings or how to do things.
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We have joined
together with a common solution.
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We have found that our
solution is and must be
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a power greater than ourselves
which most of us call God.
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So to say that it is the void
of God is really unfortunate
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that anybody would think that
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because they obviously
have not gone to an AA meeting.
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If they would go to a
meeting, I guarantee you,
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they'd have a whole
different perspective.
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Because if I have no power,
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our premise in AA is that
we are powerless over alcohol,
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that our lives have
become unmanageable.
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Our very second step
is that we came to believe
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that a power
greater than ourselves
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could restore us the sanity.
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And in the third step,
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we formally with the
prayer to God, ask Him,
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while we turn our
will and our lives
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over to the care of God.
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Every step in AA is designed
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to help us establish
that contact with God
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who is the one who
keeps every one of us sober.
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However, we conceive of
God, our concept of God,
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just like any
Christian must evolve.
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We need to grow
to know Him better.
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In fact, one of our steps
specifically talks about God
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and says in step 11,
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we seek through
prayer and meditation
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to increase our
conscious contact with God.
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That means to
talk to Him more often,
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to speak with
Him about everything,
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to share every moment with God.
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To...
00:11:05.43\00:11:06.76
as the Bible says,
pray without ceasing.
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Yes.
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That's the whole point of
AA, because if there is no God,
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there is no solution.
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We are beyond human aid.
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There is no human
power that could possibly
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restore me to sanity
when it comes to alcohol.
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But God does and did with me
and does every day of my life,
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I see those miracles happen.
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You know, I think
some people have...
00:11:29.35\00:11:33.66
there are
Christians who will say,
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AA refers to a higher power
and that somehow bothers them.
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I just want to
share a quick story.
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We had an engineer who...
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my husband and I had an engineer
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who worked for us,
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he was in our
employ and wonderful man.
00:11:47.27\00:11:50.31
And then I found
out he, you know,
00:11:50.34\00:11:52.61
every day, he
left early for lunch.
00:11:52.64\00:11:55.28
And I found that he
was going to AA meetings.
00:11:55.31\00:11:57.31
And he'd been "clean and sober"
for something like 12 years.
00:11:57.35\00:12:01.92
But the point is
that he was telling me
00:12:01.95\00:12:05.82
because I always thought
that AA was not based on God.
00:12:05.85\00:12:12.19
I just heard stories.
00:12:12.23\00:12:14.20
But he told me that yes,
00:12:14.23\00:12:15.56
they've started
talking about the higher power.
00:12:15.60\00:12:17.73
He said if he
thought it was religion,
00:12:17.77\00:12:21.50
he would have
never gone to a meeting.
00:12:21.54\00:12:23.57
But they told him, "You've
got to have a higher power."
00:12:23.61\00:12:26.94
He said, "I chose
tree as my higher power."
00:12:26.98\00:12:29.18
He said, "And I
was kneeling before
00:12:29.21\00:12:30.81
that tree one day
praying," and he said suddenly,
00:12:30.85\00:12:34.58
he heard the voice
in his head that said,
00:12:34.62\00:12:37.55
"My name is Jesus Christ
and I am your higher power."
00:12:37.59\00:12:42.82
That was very fascinating
to me and since that time,
00:12:42.86\00:12:46.86
maybe I've
become more sensitive.
00:12:46.90\00:12:49.06
I've met so many people
00:12:49.10\00:12:51.30
who were not brought
up in church like you,
00:12:51.33\00:12:55.90
who had not been
introduced to the Lord
00:12:55.94\00:12:58.84
until they went to AA,
00:12:58.87\00:13:02.18
and that's where they found
God and eventually Jesus Christ,
00:13:02.21\00:13:06.65
His Son and as their Savior.
00:13:06.68\00:13:08.88
So would you agree
00:13:08.92\00:13:12.22
that the 12-steps of recovery
00:13:12.25\00:13:18.06
that AA promotes
00:13:18.09\00:13:22.46
are all Bible based steps?
00:13:22.50\00:13:25.47
They are based in
a variety of things,
00:13:25.50\00:13:28.30
but every one of them has
Christian principles in them.
00:13:28.34\00:13:31.87
They follow the principles
that are set out in the Bible.
00:13:31.91\00:13:35.01
And honestly, many
other religions also have
00:13:35.04\00:13:38.68
some of those principles.
00:13:38.71\00:13:40.42
But if you look at
the total literature,
00:13:40.45\00:13:43.39
if you look at the
program of recovery,
00:13:43.42\00:13:45.25
the 12 steps of recovery,
they're based on honesty.
00:13:45.29\00:13:49.56
The first part is to
admit our powerlessness
00:13:49.59\00:13:52.43
and that requires honesty.
00:13:52.46\00:13:54.26
Open mindedness, if
you don't believe in God,
00:13:54.30\00:13:56.73
at least open your
mind to the possibility
00:13:56.77\00:13:59.23
that there might be
something out there.
00:13:59.27\00:14:00.64
Right.
00:14:00.67\00:14:02.00
Step two, came to believe that
a power greater than ourselves
00:14:02.04\00:14:04.61
could restore us the
sanity, does not require belief,
00:14:04.64\00:14:07.64
it requires a suspicion.
00:14:07.68\00:14:10.31
I suspect there may
be something out there
00:14:10.35\00:14:13.15
and that little
wedge is all it takes
00:14:13.18\00:14:15.48
for the light to shine through.
00:14:15.52\00:14:17.65
Because God is eager to
show us that He is real.
00:14:17.69\00:14:22.39
He is...
00:14:22.42\00:14:24.09
if you will standing on his head
00:14:24.13\00:14:25.79
to try to get us to notice him.
00:14:25.83\00:14:27.80
And suddenly,
when we stop saying,
00:14:27.83\00:14:30.60
I will never believe in
God to, well, I don't know.
00:14:30.63\00:14:34.44
Maybe there is,
maybe there isn't,
00:14:34.47\00:14:35.80
that's all it takes.
00:14:35.84\00:14:37.67
Because AA says, we can
start working from there
00:14:37.71\00:14:40.74
and eventually you
will see so much evidence.
00:14:40.78\00:14:43.98
You know, I don't...
00:14:44.01\00:14:45.35
we have many
agnostics that come to AA
00:14:45.38\00:14:47.82
and a lot of people
don't understand that term.
00:14:47.85\00:14:50.49
There are believers like
you and me that believe in God.
00:14:50.52\00:14:53.56
We believe, it can be proven.
00:14:53.59\00:14:54.99
We are proof that God exists.
00:14:55.02\00:14:57.13
There are people
who are unbelievers
00:14:57.16\00:14:59.13
who believe they can
prove there is no God.
00:14:59.16\00:15:01.53
And then there's the agnostic.
00:15:01.56\00:15:03.13
And I'm sure you
know all about it,
00:15:03.16\00:15:04.97
how the beginnings
of agnosticism started,
00:15:05.00\00:15:07.57
but the bottom line is
an agnostic simply says,
00:15:07.60\00:15:10.47
"Well, there seems to
be evidence that God exists
00:15:10.51\00:15:13.58
and evidence that he doesn't."
00:15:13.61\00:15:15.11
But there's not a
preponderance of evidence
00:15:15.14\00:15:17.05
on either side that it won't tip
00:15:17.08\00:15:18.85
the scales all the way.
00:15:18.88\00:15:20.32
So the easiest
thing for me to do,
00:15:20.35\00:15:23.22
so that I'm not
constantly arguing
00:15:23.25\00:15:25.65
if there is or isn't in my
head is to say, it's unknowable.
00:15:25.69\00:15:29.49
You can't possibly prove it
either way, so it's unknowable.
00:15:29.52\00:15:33.26
Well, that's not true either.
00:15:33.29\00:15:35.06
And AA works a
lot with agnostics.
00:15:35.10\00:15:37.83
AA says, "Okay,
look at the evidence.
00:15:37.87\00:15:40.97
Let's look at the evidence."
00:15:41.00\00:15:42.47
And when I sit in an
AA meeting as an agnostic
00:15:42.50\00:15:45.44
or even an atheist,
00:15:45.47\00:15:46.88
it doesn't take long before
I see the miracles happening.
00:15:46.91\00:15:50.48
I see people changing
right in front of my eyes.
00:15:50.51\00:15:53.05
And every one of them
00:15:53.08\00:15:54.72
in some way or
another will attributed to
00:15:54.75\00:15:57.59
in the beginning a higher power,
00:15:57.62\00:15:59.35
if they don't believe.
00:15:59.39\00:16:00.89
And eventually call
that higher power God.
00:16:00.92\00:16:03.49
And many times, I've
heard people in AA meeting say,
00:16:03.53\00:16:07.00
you know, "I'm so
grateful to Jesus Christ
00:16:07.03\00:16:09.80
who is my higher power."
00:16:09.83\00:16:11.63
I've also heard people say,
00:16:11.67\00:16:13.27
"I'm grateful to nature
who is my higher power."
00:16:13.30\00:16:16.64
Well, if you look at the
book of nature long enough,
00:16:16.67\00:16:18.77
you're going to find God.
00:16:18.81\00:16:20.14
Yes.
00:16:20.18\00:16:21.51
And AA does not concern itself
with what religion you are
00:16:21.54\00:16:24.71
or have been,
what your beliefs are,
00:16:24.75\00:16:27.68
even if they're a
little off the wall.
00:16:27.72\00:16:29.72
We don't care,
because we believe
00:16:29.75\00:16:31.65
that God will work with you.
00:16:31.69\00:16:33.02
If you're
sincerely looking for God,
00:16:33.05\00:16:35.69
He will make sure you find Him.
00:16:35.72\00:16:38.76
He doesn't have to find us.
00:16:38.79\00:16:40.73
He knows where we are.
00:16:40.76\00:16:42.40
But eventually
will discover God and,
00:16:42.43\00:16:45.60
you know, I think the
hardest part for Christians
00:16:45.63\00:16:48.84
to understand is that
if you go to an AA meeting,
00:16:48.87\00:16:53.84
you will see miracles every day.
00:16:53.88\00:16:56.34
Every day, I hear
new people coming in.
00:16:56.38\00:16:59.81
And within a few days and weeks,
00:16:59.85\00:17:02.28
people that use the name of God
00:17:02.32\00:17:03.69
only to swear are now
calling on Him for help.
00:17:03.72\00:17:07.72
Amen. Amen.
00:17:07.76\00:17:09.26
I had the experience,
I have to share this.
00:17:09.29\00:17:10.93
Last night, I'm
working with a young man
00:17:10.96\00:17:14.66
who is an alcoholic definitely
and also a heroin addict.
00:17:14.70\00:17:19.03
And he's been sober and clean
now for about, I think 55 days.
00:17:19.07\00:17:25.81
And last night,
as it always happens,
00:17:25.84\00:17:28.48
you know, we got on
to the topic of prayer.
00:17:28.51\00:17:31.15
And I asked him his
background and he says,
00:17:31.18\00:17:33.42
"Bobby, I don't
know how to pray.
00:17:33.45\00:17:35.28
I was raised in
a Godless family.
00:17:35.32\00:17:38.02
I want to, I'm
starting to like say,
00:17:38.05\00:17:40.99
God please take
these thoughts away
00:17:41.02\00:17:42.69
and they seem to be going away.
00:17:42.72\00:17:44.39
But I really
don't know how to pray."
00:17:44.43\00:17:46.90
And I said,
"Well, you're not alone,
00:17:46.93\00:17:48.53
many people have come into
AA that don't know how to pray."
00:17:48.56\00:17:51.47
And I said, "I just speak
to God like I speak to you."
00:17:51.50\00:17:55.14
And by the end of
the conversation, I said,
00:17:55.17\00:17:57.14
"Would you like me to pray
00:17:57.17\00:17:58.51
so that you can
hear how I pray,"
00:17:58.54\00:18:00.94
and he said, "Yes."
00:18:00.98\00:18:02.94
And so from a man who
is facing court problems
00:18:02.98\00:18:06.11
and a lot of
anxiety over all of that.
00:18:06.15\00:18:09.05
I prayed and I ask
God to give him peace.
00:18:09.08\00:18:12.89
And by the end of
that prayer, he says,
00:18:12.92\00:18:14.86
"Wow, I feel that
peace." Praise God.
00:18:14.89\00:18:18.63
This is weird, and I
thought, there you go,
00:18:18.66\00:18:21.03
that's all it takes is
a little bit of evidence.
00:18:21.06\00:18:23.67
And I said,
look at the evidence,
00:18:23.70\00:18:25.57
look for the evidence.
00:18:25.60\00:18:26.94
If you're looking for
God, you are sure to find Him.
00:18:26.97\00:18:29.47
The Bible promises us that,
00:18:29.50\00:18:32.11
"If you will seek
Me, you will find Me.'
00:18:32.14\00:18:33.81
Amen.
00:18:33.84\00:18:35.18
And just trying
to pray, you know,
00:18:35.21\00:18:36.54
one of the most beautiful
things I ever hear in AA
00:18:36.58\00:18:39.68
is somebody's first prayer.
00:18:39.71\00:18:42.02
And I've had that privilege
over and over and over.
00:18:42.05\00:18:45.65
And, you know, the reason
we wanted you to come today
00:18:45.69\00:18:49.12
or specifically I will
say, it was me who invited you
00:18:49.16\00:18:52.99
is that we want to
show and believe that
00:18:53.03\00:18:59.43
we absolutely know
God is the one who heals,
00:18:59.47\00:19:02.60
God gets all of the glory.
00:19:02.64\00:19:03.97
Yes.
00:19:04.01\00:19:05.34
This program is based
on Christian principles
00:19:05.37\00:19:08.84
or you'll find Christian
principles in everyone.
00:19:08.88\00:19:11.35
What I like about the
12-steps is that, you know,
00:19:11.38\00:19:17.32
from what I've
heard about it from you.
00:19:17.35\00:19:20.09
There is accountability,
but also as you...
00:19:20.12\00:19:24.69
I mean there's just
surrendering to God,
00:19:24.73\00:19:26.80
yielding to God's control.
00:19:26.83\00:19:28.66
There's this accountability,
but also that the program
00:19:28.70\00:19:32.57
then puts you into
discipleship if you will.
00:19:32.60\00:19:35.77
You take your testimony,
00:19:35.80\00:19:37.24
now you start
working with someone else
00:19:37.27\00:19:39.61
which is what
you call a sponsor.
00:19:39.64\00:19:41.74
So I think all the way
around, this is something that
00:19:41.78\00:19:46.11
Christians sometimes will
say, I don't want to go to AA,
00:19:46.15\00:19:50.69
'cause I know God can heal me.
00:19:50.72\00:19:52.49
And somehow,
I've seen some people
00:19:52.52\00:19:57.76
who may be have quit drinking,
but they're dry drunks.
00:19:57.79\00:20:01.63
Yes.
00:20:01.66\00:20:03.00
And I'm not saying
that you have to go to AA,
00:20:03.03\00:20:04.43
there's other programs,
00:20:04.47\00:20:05.80
but there's a
beauty in these 12 steps.
00:20:05.83\00:20:07.94
So explain what I just
said about the dry drunk,
00:20:07.97\00:20:10.61
so people will
understand where we are?
00:20:10.64\00:20:11.97
Sure.
00:20:12.01\00:20:13.34
A dry drunk by our
definition is simply
00:20:13.38\00:20:15.14
somebody who does not drink,
but still acts like they were.
00:20:15.18\00:20:19.98
In other words, the
dishonesty, the meanness...
00:20:20.02\00:20:22.55
Anger.
00:20:22.58\00:20:23.92
The resentments,
the anger, the fears,
00:20:23.95\00:20:25.42
all of those things
are unmitigated because...
00:20:25.45\00:20:28.19
and actually worse
because they don't have
00:20:28.22\00:20:31.26
the numbing effect of alcohol.
00:20:31.29\00:20:32.89
Okay.
00:20:32.93\00:20:34.26
So now you're left with...
00:20:34.30\00:20:35.63
I'm left with all
my character defects
00:20:35.66\00:20:38.17
that started me
drinking in the first place.
00:20:38.20\00:20:40.30
And I want to make it clear
that alcoholism is a symptom of
00:20:40.34\00:20:43.61
what's really wrong with us.
00:20:43.64\00:20:45.11
Amen.
00:20:45.14\00:20:46.47
AA says,
"Selfishness, self-centeredness,
00:20:46.51\00:20:49.04
fear, resentment,
shame, guilt, anger,
00:20:49.08\00:20:53.65
those are the things
that are wrong with us.
00:20:53.68\00:20:55.78
And those are
spiritual maladies.
00:20:55.82\00:20:57.99
AA deals with a spiritual
solution to a physical,
00:20:58.02\00:21:01.59
and mental, and
spiritual problem.
00:21:01.62\00:21:03.73
So alcoholism is a spiritual,
physical, and mental problem.
00:21:03.76\00:21:08.73
Absolutely, illnesses.
00:21:08.76\00:21:10.97
It's a malady of
those three things combined.
00:21:11.00\00:21:14.50
So how does it become...
00:21:14.54\00:21:16.84
I can see where it's spiritual.
00:21:16.87\00:21:18.47
Sure.
00:21:18.51\00:21:19.84
I can see where it's mental.
00:21:19.87\00:21:21.34
How does that
become a physical problem,
00:21:21.38\00:21:23.68
I mean a physical disease?
00:21:23.71\00:21:25.31
You started the
program by talking about OCD
00:21:25.35\00:21:27.62
and that's a good
model that we can use.
00:21:27.65\00:21:29.92
I'm not sure that
the psychiatric world
00:21:29.95\00:21:32.52
uses that term
per se on alcoholism.
00:21:32.55\00:21:35.52
But it starts with, you know,
running the show ourselves.
00:21:35.56\00:21:39.03
In other words, we
play God, that's obvious.
00:21:39.06\00:21:42.30
Every person who
knows an alcoholic,
00:21:42.33\00:21:44.57
they're making
their own decisions,
00:21:44.60\00:21:46.47
they will not allow
anybody else to help them,
00:21:46.50\00:21:49.64
they will call all their shots,
00:21:49.67\00:21:51.01
especially if their
drinking is in question,
00:21:51.04\00:21:53.34
they will guard
their drinking carefully.
00:21:53.38\00:21:55.34
I'll call my shots
when it comes to that.
00:21:55.38\00:21:57.31
And I'm trying to run my world
and it's not working very well.
00:21:57.35\00:22:00.85
So I retreat into
alcohol as a crutch,
00:22:00.88\00:22:04.15
as a way to calm my anger,
00:22:04.19\00:22:06.82
as a way to forget about
my problems, whatever it is.
00:22:06.86\00:22:09.69
So in that way...
00:22:09.72\00:22:11.06
Self medicating. Yes.
00:22:11.09\00:22:12.43
It's self medicating, exactly.
00:22:12.46\00:22:16.53
Let me start
with the mental part.
00:22:16.56\00:22:18.23
Alcoholics, every one of us
has this peculiar mental twist
00:22:18.27\00:22:24.37
that allows us to believe that
this time it will be different.
00:22:24.41\00:22:29.11
If I'm trying to
control my alcohol
00:22:29.14\00:22:31.48
and I didn't do
so well last night.
00:22:31.51\00:22:33.18
Well, today is a different day.
00:22:33.21\00:22:34.68
Today, I won't take so
much money with me to the bar.
00:22:34.72\00:22:37.55
Today, I'm not
going to drink whiskey,
00:22:37.59\00:22:40.56
I'm only going to drink beer.
00:22:40.59\00:22:42.56
Today, I'm only
going to, you know,
00:22:42.59\00:22:44.69
have two drinks and
I'm walking away, what.
00:22:44.73\00:22:47.50
There's this obsession,
like you said, with alcohol.
00:22:47.53\00:22:51.80
I'm always thinking of alcohol.
00:22:51.83\00:22:53.27
When I'm not drinking,
00:22:53.30\00:22:54.64
I'm either
remembering the good times I had
00:22:54.67\00:22:56.84
or I'm thinking about
the good times I will have
00:22:56.87\00:22:59.37
or I'll think about the
different route I'll take home
00:22:59.41\00:23:02.54
so I don't get in
trouble with the police.
00:23:02.58\00:23:04.51
Every thought of an alcoholic
is centered around alcohol.
00:23:04.55\00:23:08.72
That's an obsession.
00:23:08.75\00:23:10.55
We are obsessed with alcohol,
we think about it all the time.
00:23:10.59\00:23:13.92
And then we fall for
the little lie that says
00:23:13.96\00:23:16.42
this time it will be different.
00:23:16.46\00:23:18.59
And once we start drinking,
00:23:18.63\00:23:20.50
the physical part
that you asked about,
00:23:20.53\00:23:22.56
we trigger a compulsion,
a physical compulsion.
00:23:22.60\00:23:26.43
AA calls it a
physical craving for more.
00:23:26.47\00:23:30.27
So once I put any
alcohol in my body whatsoever,
00:23:30.31\00:23:33.51
it sets up that
physical part and my body says,
00:23:33.54\00:23:36.75
okay, we're going to drink.
00:23:36.78\00:23:38.18
And then when I
have two or three drinks,
00:23:38.21\00:23:39.91
my head says,
"Stop," my body says, "No."
00:23:39.95\00:23:44.02
And then pretty
soon, my head is screaming,
00:23:44.05\00:23:46.52
"You can't do this,
you're spending the money,
00:23:46.55\00:23:50.06
you need to pay for
rent or your car payment.
00:23:50.09\00:23:52.53
Why are you doing
this, stop, please stop."
00:23:52.56\00:23:55.53
And our bodies
take over and say,
00:23:55.56\00:23:56.90
"We're not going to
stop until we're locked up
00:23:56.93\00:23:59.73
or pass out or run
out of money or whatever."
00:23:59.77\00:24:03.67
We have to
physically be released
00:24:03.71\00:24:06.44
from the compulsion
part by stopping drinking
00:24:06.47\00:24:10.18
before that
compulsion will stop and then,
00:24:10.21\00:24:13.28
you know, unfortunately
our brains get us to do it.
00:24:13.31\00:24:15.65
Generally, the next day
00:24:15.68\00:24:17.02
or the next week
we start up again.
00:24:17.05\00:24:18.69
We have
incredibly short memories.
00:24:18.72\00:24:20.52
We cannot remember
the pain and the suffering
00:24:20.56\00:24:23.22
of even a few hours ago.
00:24:23.26\00:24:25.73
Because this time
it will be different,
00:24:25.76\00:24:27.86
that's the lie that happens,
that's the mental illness.
00:24:27.90\00:24:30.97
What kind of person
would stick their hand
00:24:31.00\00:24:32.83
on a hot stove every day
00:24:32.87\00:24:34.34
saying it's not
going to burn me today?
00:24:34.37\00:24:36.00
So about how long did you drink?
00:24:36.04\00:24:39.11
I drank for 11 years.
00:24:39.14\00:24:41.44
And how bad did it get?
00:24:41.48\00:24:45.51
Well, I got to the point where
00:24:45.55\00:24:50.99
I couldn't
imagine living another day
00:24:51.02\00:24:53.72
with or without alcohol.
00:24:53.76\00:24:55.89
I was desperate, I was hopeless,
00:24:55.92\00:24:59.09
I wanted to die,
00:24:59.13\00:25:00.46
I tried to end my
life more than once,
00:25:00.50\00:25:04.77
I was in real financial straits.
00:25:04.80\00:25:09.44
I had no friends
left in the world.
00:25:09.47\00:25:12.27
My job was hanging by a thread,
00:25:12.31\00:25:16.18
and I didn't
know what was wrong.
00:25:16.21\00:25:18.21
That's the sad part.
00:25:18.25\00:25:19.58
What kind of physical effect...
00:25:19.61\00:25:20.95
we only have about
a minute or two left,
00:25:20.98\00:25:22.32
but tell me what
was the physical effect?
00:25:22.35\00:25:24.85
I had gained a lot of weight.
00:25:24.89\00:25:26.22
I hadn't gotten to
the point where I was,
00:25:26.25\00:25:28.39
you know, in trouble
with my liver or anything yet,
00:25:28.42\00:25:31.59
but it wouldn't have
been much longer, so.
00:25:31.63\00:25:34.00
Okay.
00:25:34.03\00:25:35.60
So you finally
reached that point.
00:25:35.63\00:25:40.24
Now you already knew God. Yes.
00:25:40.27\00:25:43.67
I mean, you have
a very godly family.
00:25:43.71\00:25:47.51
And not just
somebody that's speaking it,
00:25:47.54\00:25:50.45
but somebody that walks out.
00:25:50.48\00:25:53.48
They walk in the
footsteps of Jesus.
00:25:53.52\00:25:55.82
So how did you end up at AA?
00:25:55.85\00:25:59.39
How did you end up...
00:25:59.42\00:26:01.32
I mean you cried out to God,
00:26:01.36\00:26:02.76
who directed you to AA?
00:26:02.79\00:26:05.43
Well, I think God did obviously.
00:26:05.46\00:26:07.53
I had one friend that
I had just met at a party
00:26:07.56\00:26:11.53
if you can imagine.
00:26:11.57\00:26:12.97
And I didn't know he
wasn't drinking alcohol.
00:26:13.00\00:26:15.27
He was the life of the party,
00:26:15.30\00:26:16.64
he lived down
the street from me.
00:26:16.67\00:26:18.01
And one day, I stopped by
and started talking to him.
00:26:18.04\00:26:20.84
And I asked him to
go out drinking with me
00:26:20.88\00:26:22.61
and he refused.
00:26:22.64\00:26:23.98
And finally I just
kept pressing him saying,
00:26:24.01\00:26:26.38
assuming he didn't
have the money to go drink
00:26:26.41\00:26:28.38
and I said,
"I'll buy it tonight,
00:26:28.42\00:26:30.19
and he says, "No."
00:26:30.22\00:26:31.55
And he says, "I
need to go to a meeting,"
00:26:31.59\00:26:32.92
and I said, "What
kind of job do you have
00:26:32.95\00:26:34.49
that takes you back into
work at night for a meeting."
00:26:34.52\00:26:37.09
He says, "I thought you knew.
00:26:37.13\00:26:39.06
I'm an alcoholic,
I go to AA meetings."
00:26:39.09\00:26:41.73
And something inside of me,
00:26:41.76\00:26:43.13
I don't even
know what, except God
00:26:43.16\00:26:45.23
put the words in
my mouth, I said,
00:26:45.27\00:26:46.60
"Well, that's
cool, can I go with you?"
00:26:46.63\00:26:48.67
And he said, "Sure."
00:26:48.70\00:26:50.31
That happened to be a
young people's meeting.
00:26:50.34\00:26:52.64
They talked about
these awful things
00:26:52.67\00:26:54.48
that had happen in their life.
00:26:54.51\00:26:55.84
The car crashes, and wrecks,
00:26:55.88\00:26:57.35
and the police, and
all that other stuff.
00:26:57.38\00:27:00.18
And I compared
myself right out the door
00:27:00.22\00:27:02.35
because they'll say
it's not happened to me.
00:27:02.38\00:27:04.99
But it planted
the seed in my head
00:27:05.02\00:27:08.06
which eventually got
me to the point where
00:27:08.09\00:27:12.63
I don't know if I
can tell the whole story
00:27:12.66\00:27:14.56
in just a few seconds,
00:27:14.60\00:27:16.30
but that planted
the seed in my head.
00:27:16.33\00:27:18.80
And alcoholism
was a topic on my mind
00:27:18.83\00:27:22.60
for the next few months
00:27:22.64\00:27:23.97
until I found my
way to AA through
00:27:24.01\00:27:26.47
a very strange
set of circumstances
00:27:26.51\00:27:28.38
that we can
talk about next time.
00:27:28.41\00:27:29.74
All right.
00:27:29.78\00:27:31.11
And now we are so excited
00:27:31.15\00:27:32.51
that you are going to come back.
00:27:32.55\00:27:33.88
Thank you.
00:27:33.92\00:27:35.25
Because 26 years of sobriety
is something to celebrate
00:27:35.28\00:27:39.15
and it is something that
00:27:39.19\00:27:40.76
not only have you
been clean and sober,
00:27:40.79\00:27:43.56
'cause that's only one
half of the first step.
00:27:43.59\00:27:46.93
That's right.
00:27:46.96\00:27:48.30
To be clean and
sober doesn't mean
00:27:48.33\00:27:49.96
you've been healed.
00:27:50.00\00:27:51.43
What you've experienced
00:27:51.47\00:27:53.44
in these 26 years is a
true healing on the inside.
00:27:53.47\00:27:58.61
And I happen to
know Bob fairly well
00:27:58.64\00:28:00.94
and I see him
growing day by day,
00:28:00.98\00:28:04.91
year by year,
throughout the years
00:28:04.95\00:28:07.38
and it's really amazing.
00:28:07.42\00:28:08.75
So we hope that you will
tune again next time with us
00:28:08.78\00:28:12.75
so that you also can know
00:28:12.79\00:28:16.62
how to share this information
00:28:16.66\00:28:19.89
with someone you love
or someone who needs God.
00:28:19.93\00:28:23.47
Thank you for joining us.
00:28:23.50\00:28:24.83