Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Doris Gothard
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000455A
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00:29 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn.
00:30 And we welcome you again to Issues and Answers. 00:33 Today's issue is going to be about leadership. 00:37 It doesn't matter if you're in the corporate world 00:39 or if you have your own business 00:41 or if you work at Walmart, 00:43 if you are a mother or married and have a family, 00:48 if you are in the church, 00:50 everyone needs to know about leadership 00:53 because I believe God has called His people 00:55 to be the head and not the tail. 00:58 And we need to know what makes a good leader. 01:01 So today, we have with us a very special guest, 01:04 someone I met and fell in love with immediately in New York, 01:08 her name is Doris Gothard. 01:09 She has a degree in pure mathematics 01:12 with a minor in engineering. 01:14 And she was a corporate manager 01:16 for General Motors Electronic Data Systems. 01:20 So she's got all of this experience 01:22 in the corporate world. 01:24 And you will not believe what she's doing now. 01:26 Besides being so active in her church, 01:28 she is starting her own cookie line. 01:31 And we just got to taste it. 01:33 Doris, thank you so much for joining us today. 01:35 Oh, you're welcome, Shelley, you're welcome. 01:37 You know, your cookies, you're calling them, 01:40 Can Not Eat Just One CEJO, C-E-J-O. 01:44 And everybody here will attest to the fact that 01:47 that's a great name for your cookie. 01:49 Well, you're a great friend. 01:51 And I could not come to 3ABN Issues and Answers 01:55 without baking something from my heart for you. 01:58 And did you notice that I shaped 02:00 some of the cookies in the shape of valentine. 02:04 Yes, a heart-shaped cookie. You're special, Shelley. 02:06 Thank you so much for having me. 02:08 Oh, well, this is a blessing. 02:10 We want to jump right into our topic today 02:12 because I think you've got 02:14 a lot of good things that we normally don't... 02:17 We haven't had a lot of presentations 02:19 on this type of material. 02:20 And I'm very excited about it because leadership principles 02:23 are something that we need to understand 02:28 what makes a good leader, and if we're not a leader, 02:32 we're a follower 02:34 and we want to follow good leaders even, 02:36 but let's talk about 02:39 your little formula of the 70:20:10. 02:44 I am passionate about this subject of leadership 02:46 because I want to tell you 02:48 that I believe that most of us really are leaders. 02:52 It's like a diamond in the rough. 02:54 We may not think or feel that we're leaders. 02:56 And so for your program today, I sat at my computer 03:00 and I put together my model, 03:03 which I've always used in my leadership experience. 03:06 And I call it the leadership 70:20:10 model. 03:11 And I said if our viewers could just see, 03:13 especially women 03:15 who are heads of their households, 03:17 they are the best leaders that I know of 03:18 in the whole wide world, they multitask, 03:21 they do so many things and they do them well. 03:23 But many of them may have a desire 03:26 to get into leadership 03:28 at the companies where they work today. 03:31 And I think that our talk today 03:33 will give them some additional resources and tools. 03:37 This pie chart, which I call the 70:20:10 of leadership 03:41 is very basic and it's very simple, 03:43 70% of what a hiring leader will be looking for 03:48 if you're interested in applying 03:50 for a leadership position is based on experience. 03:54 It's experience, and 20% is based on relationships. 04:00 So many times it's that relationship 04:02 that you have either inside of the organization, 04:05 whether it's in the community, whether it's in the church, 04:09 or in a corporate environment, 04:10 20% of the key to getting you to the leadership position 04:16 that you're interested in 04:17 is based on those relationships, 04:18 so we can't discount those. 04:21 Education is extremely important. 04:23 But did you know that only 10% 04:27 of the formal education and training 04:30 is really key to the success 04:33 of one getting into that leadership position. 04:35 By all means I want everybody 04:37 in our listening audience to know that 04:38 education is very important. 04:40 But relationships and getting that experience 04:43 is really key and paramount to being a successful leader. 04:47 And that 10% can be just enough to get you the interview 04:50 because many jobs nowadays are saying 04:52 took the education being just 10%, 04:54 that's maybe the door opener to get you in, 04:57 but it is a matter of experience 04:59 that's shared in relationship. 05:00 And interestingly, a lot of youth 05:03 will graduate from college, and I should say young adults, 05:07 will graduate from college... 05:09 Or any age, you know. 05:11 Or any age, and think that because they have a degree, 05:14 they should be able to walk out 05:16 and get into the leadership position. 05:18 But experience, as you said, is what people are looking for. 05:21 So even with a degree, 05:23 you may have to start at the bottom 05:25 and work your way up, generally speaking. 05:27 You're right. 05:29 So define for us what leadership is? 05:32 You've certainly had a lot of experience 05:34 in the corporate world. 05:36 How would you define leadership? 05:39 Well, first, may I begin by sharing with you 05:42 two quotes from an author, 05:45 his name is Joseph Clarence Rost. 05:49 And he said a couple things in his book 05:51 that really stuck with me over a number of years. 05:53 And it was in the chapter where he was actually doing 05:57 a comparison between 05:59 what leadership is versus management. 06:02 Now I think we all know 06:03 leadership has to do with people, we lead people. 06:07 Management has to do with things, 06:10 and so we manage things. 06:11 And so if I may, let me just read 06:13 a couple of these quotes on leadership. 06:15 Here's what he says. 06:17 He says, "Leadership is the activity 06:19 of influencing people 06:22 to cooperation toward some common goal 06:26 which they come to find desirable." 06:29 That's people moving in sync together toward a common goal, 06:35 a goal which they find desirable to them. 06:38 And then the second quote, 06:41 "Leadership is an influence relationship 06:44 among leaders," not just leaders, 06:46 this is the part that I like, 06:48 "It's an influence relationship among leaders and followers." 06:52 So if there's a leader, 06:54 there are always going to be followers. 06:56 "Leaders and followers 06:58 who intend real challenges 07:01 that reflect their mutual purposes." 07:04 So this speaks volume 07:06 because whenever a leader is leading a team, 07:09 if the team doesn't know the purpose of the team, 07:13 then we have a problem from the beginning. 07:16 So leadership is very, very important 07:18 not only for the team members 07:21 but it's important to know what the purpose is, 07:22 and we'll talk a little bit more about that 07:24 as we move forward. 07:25 And wouldn't you agree that of course IQ is important 07:28 in a leader to be intelligent, 07:30 but EQ, IQ being your intelligence quotient, 07:33 EQ the emotional quotient, 07:37 how well you relate with people, 07:39 how well you can read people, 07:42 the EQ is more important to your influence, 07:47 wouldn't you agree? 07:48 I agree wholeheartedly. 07:50 As a matter of fact, I think you touched on it 07:51 just a moment ago. 07:53 May I share with you a saying? 07:55 This was a saying internal to the corporate environment 07:58 where I spent almost 30 years working. 08:02 IQ will get you hired, 08:07 but EQ, that emotional quotient, 08:10 how well you control your emotions 08:13 without blowing it up, 08:14 how well you work with other people 08:17 that are in your job environment, 08:20 that will get you promoted. 08:22 Amen. 08:23 So if there's someone who really 08:25 wants to get promoted, 08:27 you think that you deserve to be promoted, 08:30 I'd say your IQ is probably in balance, but your EQ, 08:35 you might need to do a little work on that. 08:37 Yes, that's an excellent quote. 08:39 May I share 08:40 a couple of other things? Sure. 08:41 I've also learned in my leadership career 08:45 to keep my IQ in check... 08:48 my EQ in check and in balance. 08:52 And I've learned the value of building good relationships 08:56 as long as I keep my EQ in check. 08:59 So what do you mean EQ in check? 09:01 EQ, that's the emotional quotient 09:04 that I just spoke about. 09:05 But what do you mean by keeping it in check? 09:07 It means that you may not always get what you want, 09:12 you may want a yes from a leader, 09:15 but you may not always get that as an answer. 09:18 Your attitude, your leadership attitude 09:20 about how you receive that information, 09:22 if it's not good news, 09:24 you didn't get the promotion, you know, 09:26 you didn't get to take a trip 09:28 that you thought was valuable and important, 09:30 knowing how to have the right leadership attitude 09:34 so that your emotions are in balance. 09:37 You don't blow up. 09:39 You don't feel that 09:41 you are the victim in the situation. 09:43 So that's being emotionally in balance, that's what EQ is. 09:46 That's good. 09:47 What else, what other suggestions would you give 09:49 to someone who is interested in leadership? 09:53 I made a list of about six things. 09:56 So I'm just going to read to you 09:57 this list of six things. 09:59 The first one is you must know who you are 10:03 and you've got to know what you believe. 10:05 The second thing that you need to be is an optimist 10:09 because there is a big difference between 10:11 an optimist and a pessimist, 10:13 and we'll talk about that in just a moment. 10:15 You must have, as a leader, strength and courage. 10:21 Strength and courage. That is important. Amen. 10:24 More importantly for the leader than anyone else perhaps. 10:28 You must have strength and courage 10:30 to make those tough decisions. 10:32 Leaders all over the world, 10:35 whether it's the president of the United States, 10:37 whether it's a pastor... A single mother. 10:39 A single mother, that's true, 10:41 who is the single head of household 10:43 in her own home, 10:44 there are always challenging situations 10:46 that we're faced with, 10:48 and there are sometimes some very tough decisions 10:51 that we have to make, 10:52 so I say that leaders must have strength and courage 10:57 to make those difficult and tough 10:59 and challenging decisions. 11:02 Another thing that I would share would be, 11:06 have you heard the expression "Practice makes perfect"? 11:08 Yes. 11:09 Can you imagine someone, let's just say in church, 11:12 I can't imagine, you know, 11:14 someone standing up to do a sermon 11:16 without having done some preparation. 11:19 And I've believe practice, practice, practice 11:23 prepares an individual. 11:25 So in the area of leadership, it takes preparation. 11:29 And you get the preparation through practice. 11:33 Another is that you as a leader need to have a good team. 11:37 One thing I can say in the few hours 11:40 that I have been here on the grounds, 11:42 these beautiful grounds here at 3ABN, 11:44 and having met some of the employees that work here, 11:47 what a tremendous team you have here. 11:51 We do. 11:52 Everyone, gracious and kind and welcoming. 11:55 So every leader, I can't think of a leader that would say 11:58 that he or she would not desire to have a good team. 12:01 So as a leader, if you had the privilege, 12:04 as I had for so many years, to hire people, 12:06 now that's the joyous part, hiring a person, hiring people, 12:11 that's fun, that's joy, 12:14 but what a leader has to understand 12:16 is that there may come a day 12:18 when there is a situation that's challenging, 12:22 and that means that the leader, 12:23 if you hired the person, 12:25 you had the strength and courage to hire, 12:26 then guess what, you also have to have 12:29 the strength and courage to fire. 12:32 No leader that I have ever met, including myself, 12:36 has ever enjoyed 12:38 having to separate anyone from the company, 12:40 involuntary separation from any position, 12:44 well, the voluntary or paid is not a welcoming feed. 12:47 So I would mention that the last thing is 12:50 for a leader, communication is key. 12:53 Amen. 12:55 Clear communications. 12:56 I hope these will be helpful. 12:58 But from my experience, 13:00 these six things have been really keys to the success 13:03 in my leadership career. 13:05 And when you think of the people 13:08 that you have worked with, particularly in your teams, 13:12 what have you learned about them 13:14 that makes them either good leaders or good followers? 13:18 Whenever a person meets you for the first time... 13:22 And thank you, you paid me a wonderful compliment, 13:25 you said you liked me from the beginning 13:27 when you met me several years ago in New York. 13:30 But we are all in the process of assessing one another. 13:33 Absolutely. 13:35 Before the person speaks, visually, 13:37 we take a look at them, you know, 13:39 how they dress and how they carry themselves, 13:42 and there are continuous assessments going on. 13:45 But here's what I've learned, 13:46 and I'll speak for me personally, 13:49 I have learned 13:51 that no matter how well 13:53 I'm able to assess other individuals 13:56 or a situation 13:57 that my human assessments are always... 14:00 Flawed. Flawed. 14:02 They are incomplete. 14:04 God is the only person that I know 14:06 that can get it right the first time. 14:08 And so I think as human beings 14:10 we should be more open 14:12 to understanding that we're human 14:15 and that no matter how we assess people 14:17 that are on our teams, people in the community, 14:21 even members of our household, that is always incomplete. 14:25 May I tell you a couple of other things? 14:26 Please. 14:28 Okay, I have learned that I should try to understand 14:32 another person's point of view. 14:34 Have you ever been in a meeting and others were sharing 14:37 and then you may have sensed that 14:39 maybe the person that they were speaking to 14:41 wasn't really truly listening, you know, 14:43 not really listening to them, let me tell you, 14:46 there are hidden treasures 14:49 in every single one of God's creations, 14:52 every person I believe has a point of view. 14:56 And for the leader, it depends upon 14:59 whether or not you create, 15:01 based upon your leadership style, 15:03 an environment where people are comfortable 15:07 to share their point of view. 15:09 If I am chairing a meeting 15:11 or when I was working in corporate America 15:13 and I was holding my own staff meetings 15:15 and things like that, 15:16 I would pay attention to the dynamics in the room, 15:19 and I'll probably mention that again, 15:21 because there are verbal and nonverbal communications 15:24 that are going on in the room, 15:26 every person that's seated at the table 15:28 has a view, they have a point of view 15:31 about whatever you're talking about. 15:33 And it takes that leadership strength and skill 15:38 to be able to have that person feel comfortable enough 15:42 that they will share their point of view. 15:43 And then after having heard what their view is 15:46 and their point of view is, validate them, 15:49 encourage them for sharing, 15:51 and then try to be open as a leader 15:54 that just as you as a leader have a point of view, 15:57 you don't know everything 15:59 and that there could be something 16:01 that could contribute to the overall success of the team 16:05 if you were more open 16:07 to another person's point of view. 16:08 Something that I particularly enjoy 16:11 are brainstorming session 16:13 and the ground rules we lay down are, you know, 16:17 nobody's going to be made fun of 16:20 because of their ideas, 16:23 we just, anything that anyone says, 16:25 we'll slap it on a board and say, you know, that's good, 16:29 that's good, we may never use it, 16:30 and sometimes people will say something that you think, 16:33 that didn't make any sense, 16:35 but often, if you're listening to other people, 16:39 often the Lord leads through a process 16:41 and you will actually springboard, 16:44 some of the craziest ideas 16:47 have been the segue 16:48 to arrive at another beautiful, wonderful idea. 16:53 So God does give everyone something to bring to the table 16:57 and they should be listened... 16:59 Yes, and let me say, 17:00 I admire what you have just said 17:01 because I believe that people, and this is most people, 17:07 most people do the best they can 17:10 on any team given the set of circumstances 17:14 that they are faced with. 17:15 And so what I've learned to do as a leader 17:17 is to trust a little bit more, 17:19 trust people to take the leadership. 17:23 You know, just because 17:24 you're in a leadership position, 17:26 the position doesn't define who you are, 17:28 and the leader is well served 17:31 when you allow others to share their points of view. 17:34 And I've also learned that with the strength and courage 17:39 that comes along with being an effective leader, 17:42 preparation is the key. 17:45 Prepare, prepare, prepare, I'm just repeating them, 17:47 that's key too. 17:49 Communicate, communicate, communicate, 17:52 one of the areas that will determine 17:54 whether or not an organization 17:56 or a team or a group or a church 17:59 is being affected either in ministry 18:01 or with whatever service they are providing 18:04 is how well they are communicating 18:07 with those individuals 18:08 that are a part of the organization, 18:10 that are a part of the team, so clear communication is key. 18:13 And communication, 18:15 the attitude of the communicator 18:17 has to be important as well, does it not? 18:19 That's right. That's right. 18:20 Because if you have a pessimistic communicator, 18:23 you're going to run into trouble. 18:25 That's true, that's true. 18:26 So how important do you think attitude is 18:29 toward being a good leader? 18:31 Well, I think, let's talk about, 18:33 you brought up pessimistic, 18:35 and I wanted to touch on that a bit today 18:38 because attitude is very, very key to the leader. 18:43 If the leader has an attitude of I know everything, 18:49 then that leader ceases to grow. 18:51 I don't know if you've ever experienced that 18:53 in your leadership career, 18:56 but there really are some leaders 18:57 who feel like, you know, I've got it all, I know it all, 19:00 and there's nothing more that I can learn. 19:03 I know this subject, I know this job, 19:05 I know it so well until I got this. 19:08 I say that the attitude of that leader 19:12 closes the door for any growth to take place 19:17 in that leader's ability to inspire 19:20 and help develop other leaders to grow. 19:23 Oh, absolutely. 19:24 That shuts the team down. 19:27 Right, one attitude 19:28 is the attitude of being a pessimist 19:33 and the attitude of being an optimist. 19:36 Let's talk about the differences 19:37 between the two. Okay. 19:39 I'd like to think that I'm a leader 19:40 who is an optimist. 19:42 No doubt. 19:44 Because an optimist is open, 19:46 they are interested in another person's idea 19:50 or point of view 19:52 because they want to continue to grow. 19:54 I don't think I will ever be at an age 19:58 where I'll say it's just over, 20:00 I'm too old to learn and grow. 20:03 My age is progressively moving forward. 20:06 I've had a lot of experiences. Praise the Lord. 20:08 But praise the Lord for all of that. 20:09 Consider the alternative... I am still growing. 20:11 I'm still growing as a leader. 20:13 An optimist would say that I see challenges 20:19 as opportunities, as possibilities. 20:23 A pessimist would view any challenge 20:26 as so pervasive that it was permanent. 20:30 And that attitude prevents 20:32 any ability for any growth or development. 20:34 Yes, amen. 20:36 You know, what I find, I'm also an optimist, 20:38 as is my husband, 20:40 and I have found always 20:42 I like to be around optimistic people. 20:45 When something bad happens, 20:46 they're able to recover more rapidly 20:48 and they are people who are overcomers. 20:52 But now we've all been in a position 20:55 where we have worked with someone 20:58 who was supposed to be our leader 21:00 but they didn't have good qualities, what are... 21:04 You brought some precious little drawings with you, 21:07 some little line drawings 21:09 that someone did for you of some bad leaders. 21:11 Could we run through that bad leadership qualities? 21:14 Yes, we can. 21:16 And let me just do a lead-in statement 21:18 to these pencil drawings 21:20 that were done by one of my husband's employees 21:23 on the General Motors account. 21:25 I remember a statement 21:28 that the late President John F. Kennedy 21:30 made about leadership, 21:33 and I've used it many, many times 21:34 in my leadership presentations, and he said that, 21:37 "Leadership and learning 21:40 are indispensable to each other." 21:43 In other words, to be an effective leader, 21:45 we need both, you need to be a leader, 21:47 yes, but you need to be open to learning. 21:50 And so unfortunately, 21:52 there are some behaviors 21:55 that perhaps you've seen in leadership 21:57 and I've seen a few too that we should avoid. 22:01 And I'm talking to the young leaders 22:02 that are in our viewing audience 22:04 and to those who may desire to be in a leadership role 22:07 or who may currently be in a leadership position. 22:10 There are some behaviors that we can work very hard 22:14 and pray very hard to avoid. 22:15 And so may we share a couple of those now? 22:17 Sure. 22:20 The first is the leader, 22:22 and of course this is a pencil drawing, 22:24 the first is a leader who stifles creativity, 22:28 the leader should want everyone on the team to be creative, 22:33 to think outside of the box, 22:35 and to bring all of those ideas to the table. 22:38 And these people are usually micromanagers, are they not? 22:41 Yes, they are. Yes, they are. 22:43 And further, I would say, that here is what they do, 22:46 they hold the team back. 22:49 And that could be even broader. 22:51 They could hold even the whole organization back 22:55 when they stifle, 22:57 when their leadership style stifles the creativity 23:00 of those individuals that are working on the team, 23:02 they repress. 23:04 This is a leadership behavior 23:08 that I recommend that we should avoid, 23:10 and I think you'd agree, I recommend. 23:11 Absolutely. Yes. 23:13 Here's the second one, 23:14 and I think we're only doing a couple of these drawings 23:17 because of the time constraints today, 23:19 the drunk-with-power leader. 23:23 I'm not talking about drunk from any liquid 23:28 or any substance like that 23:30 but just with the idea of the position 23:34 that they hold. 23:36 This term I've used that they are perhaps drunk 23:39 with the power of the position that they hold, 23:42 every leader has a certain span of control, 23:45 which comes with it a certain amount of power. 23:47 You're effective based upon 23:49 how well you understand the use of that power 23:51 and seldom should you ever have to use 23:54 the full power of your leadership. 23:57 In those instances when you have to use it, 23:59 you guard that with great care. 24:02 If you ever have to say, I always say, 24:04 I used to say to my employees, 24:06 that if I have to remind you that I'm the leader, 24:09 then there's a real problem here. 24:13 You remember? Absolutely. 24:14 The leader should lead in such a way with a behavior, 24:18 a Christ-like behavior that he or she 24:21 would never have to say I'm the boss or I'm the leader. 24:26 And if you ever came to that crossroad, 24:29 then you and the employee should know, 24:32 and I would always reveal that information 24:35 so that if they ever heard me say that, 24:36 and I can't think of very many times 24:38 when I ever had to remind someone 24:39 that I was the boss or I was the leader. 24:41 That's a real, real, real problem, 24:43 so I believe in having positive behaviors 24:46 so that the leader is like a member of the team. 24:49 You are a part of the team. 24:50 And that's even true in a parenting position. 24:54 Yes. 24:55 When you have to remind the child because I said so, 24:58 I'm your momma, then, you know, 25:00 you're actually breaking down communication over that. 25:03 Absolutely. Okay. 25:04 Do we have time for one or two more? 25:06 Surely. 25:07 Okay, how about the manage-through-fear leader? 25:11 Just because you have people on the team 25:14 that are doing what they've been asked to do, 25:18 it doesn't mean that it's the choice, 25:21 they could actually be functioning 25:23 as the result of some fear that they have. 25:25 And so I've said about this kind of leader, 25:27 this kind of behavior from a leader 25:30 that it's fear based 25:31 and that the leader has created a fear-based environment. 25:37 And in a fear based-environment 25:40 that the leader has created for the employees 25:42 that are working in that environment 25:44 or even in the home 25:46 where there are children in the home, 25:48 if the parents have created an environment 25:50 that's fear based, 25:53 rarely does that lead to productivity, 25:55 rarely will that lead 25:57 to the kind of positive behaviors 25:59 that you would like to see 26:00 either the children or the individuals, 26:02 you know, who are working on the job 26:05 or in the church or in any organization. 26:08 I think these are so good. 26:10 I know you have several more, 26:11 but we're out of time for those. 26:14 But let me ask you this question, 26:16 if you could sum it up in a nutshell, 26:19 what do you think is the most important thing 26:22 you could instill, 26:24 if you're talking to someone who wants to be a leader, 26:26 you have a lot of leadership experience, 26:28 you're serving on your church board, 26:32 and you have many other boards that you serve on, 26:34 what would you say to someone, 26:36 "If you want to be a leader, do this"? 26:40 I'd say every person's view is important, 26:43 and I would say be a leader 26:46 like the conductor of an orchestra 26:49 because good leadership is like directing a fine musical group, 26:55 whether choir or an orchestra. 26:57 And then I would leave them with three Es. 27:00 My three Es for effective leadership are 27:03 encourage, enable, and empower, so... 27:08 That's really good, encourage, enable, and empower. 27:10 Yes. 27:12 Thank you so much for being here, Doris. 27:13 We want you to come back, 27:15 we want to talk a little to some topics 27:17 that are related to this. 27:18 But we just appreciate you being here so much today. 27:21 And for those of you at home, I hope that you're listening 27:24 and sharing this information with others. 27:26 Think of how you can apply this encourage... 27:29 Enable and empower, three Es. Enable and empower. 27:33 Even in your church situations, maybe in pathfinders, 27:36 or at home, 27:38 our prayer for you is that 27:39 the grace of our Lord and Savior 27:41 Jesus Christ will be with you, 27:42 the love of the Father, 27:44 and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit 27:45 today and always. |
Revised 2017-09-18