Participants: Shelley Quinn (Host), Jennifer Schwirzer
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000454A
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00:29 Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
00:30 and welcome again to Issues and Answers. 00:33 Boy, we've got an issue today that is something... 00:37 It's a hot topic and... 00:38 Because it is something that is happening so much 00:43 in not only in America but across the world. 00:45 And what we're gonna be talking about is loneliness, 00:49 but more importantly that's the issue, 00:52 the answer is love so from loneliness to love. 00:55 And returning with us today is our special guest. 00:58 We're always glad 00:59 when Jennifer Jill Schwirzer is with us. 01:02 She is a licensed professional counselor, 01:04 she is an author and a musician. 01:08 And, Jennifer, thank you so much for coming back. 01:11 It's a pleasure to be here. 01:12 Tell us a little bit about your practice in Philadelphia? 01:15 I have an office in my home 01:18 and I do face to face counseling. 01:21 I also do quite a bit of distance counseling. 01:25 I'm a Seventh-day Adventist 01:26 and what I find is that there aren't enough 01:29 Seventh-day Adventist counselors to kind of meet 01:31 the needs of the Seventh-day Adventist people. 01:33 And so Adventists will go out of their way 01:35 to find an Adventist counselor. 01:37 And so that's where distance counseling comes in 01:39 because it's not always possible 01:41 to see people face to face. 01:42 So I do counseling through Skype and phone. 01:45 The Skype is what I was just getting ready to ask you. 01:47 That's interesting. Yeah, FaceTime, Google chat. 01:51 I've had one situation 01:52 where I had someone in Afghanistan, 01:54 and some one in New Zealand, and we would meet together. 01:56 Yeah, it's crazy. 01:58 Well, it just amazes me 02:01 what you can do with technology today. 02:03 But, you know, I think that technology today 02:05 is part of the problem and we'll get into that, 02:08 because I think it seems to me the more... 02:10 It's a double-edged sword. 02:11 It is a double-edged sword. 02:13 And it seems that the more technology we've gotten, 02:15 people are beginning to with all the social media accounts, 02:18 people are artificially connected 02:20 and loneliness is on the rise. 02:21 That's right. 02:22 But tell us about Jennifer Bricker? 02:24 Okay, I want to start off this with a really cool story, 02:28 and that is this young woman named Jennifer Bricker, 02:31 who was rejected by her birth family 02:34 because of the disability that she had and was adopted. 02:38 And her adoptive parents, 02:39 the Brickers had one rule in their home is that, 02:42 and that was that you could never say, "I can't." 02:45 And so Jennifer was this very feisty, 02:47 very driven individual 02:48 and she began to excel in sports. 02:51 And specifically she excelled at gymnastics. 02:54 In fact, she became the state champion 02:56 in Illinois for gymnastics. 02:59 And this was doubly remarkable because Jennifer had no legs, 03:03 that was why she had been rejected by her birth family. 03:05 Wow. That gave me chills listening to that. 03:07 Isn't that amazing? 03:08 And you should see the footage, 03:09 put that in a YouTube search engine 03:12 and look at some of the footage of her flipping 03:14 and doing all kinds of crazy things, 03:16 she's amazing. 03:18 But the story goes on. 03:20 She at a certain point as an adolescent 03:23 became very, very admiring of a certain gymnast 03:26 named Dominique Moceanu. 03:28 She was part of the American team that won in 1996. 03:32 And she especially loved this Dominique Moceanu 03:35 because she seemed to have a certain spark to her 03:37 that Jennifer really related to. 03:39 And one day she asked her mother, "Mom, you know, 03:42 I'm curious about my birth family." 03:44 The mother pulled the file on the adoption 03:46 and it was a closed adoption, 03:47 but there had been a clerical error 03:49 and the mother discovered the girl's 03:52 or the Jennifer's birth name was Moceanu. 03:55 And in that instant Jennifer knew 03:57 that Dominique Moceanu was her sister. 03:59 Oh, my God. 04:00 Isn't that amazing? Yes. 04:02 And so she contacted her and they connected 04:05 and there's a third sister 04:07 that looks even more like Jennifer 04:09 than Danielle that even though 04:10 there was some resemblance there too. 04:11 And, of course, it's a beautiful story 04:13 of reuniting with a lost sibling. 04:16 And I think of us, Shelley, 04:17 and I think of how really we're all long lost siblings, 04:20 aren't we, because we come from the same parents. 04:22 And we have this drive and this need to belong. 04:25 And that need for belonging is something 04:27 that God has built into us 04:28 because we were made in God's image, 04:30 and God is love. 04:32 And we tend to think of God's love 04:33 as love extending from God upon His creation. 04:37 But if you think about it, God's attribute of love, 04:41 His essence is love, 04:42 and so it preexisted the creation. 04:44 Yes. 04:45 So even within God, 04:46 there is love between the Father, 04:48 Son, and Holy Spirit. 04:50 And God built that same principle of love into us, 04:55 the crowning act of His creation. 04:57 And so we have that same capacity 04:59 for very deep intimate attachment. 05:02 And if we don't have those attachments, 05:04 we don't thrive well. 05:06 And so we are really long lost brothers and sisters 05:08 that are in the process by God's grace of learning 05:11 how to love and be loved. 05:14 Very interesting, 05:15 doing little study on the Trinity lately. 05:17 And as I'm thinking about this in terms of relationship, 05:22 what I realize is that 05:23 the number three is very illustrative 05:27 of the principle of love. 05:29 If you think about it, 05:30 human relationships that start out as dyadic, 05:33 two in the relationship tend to branch out into triads. 05:38 Man meets woman, they marry, they fall in love, get married, 05:41 and they have what? 05:42 Typically have a child. 05:43 Then the parent, child relationship 05:45 eventually becomes a triad 05:46 when another child enters the picture. 05:49 And so what we see in human life 05:50 is that dyads often branch out into triads. 05:54 And what's cool about triadic relationships 05:57 is that they are an excellent opportunity 05:59 to manifest true love. 06:01 Because when I'm in a triadic relationship, 06:03 I have to appreciate and be happy 06:05 about the love between the other two. 06:06 Absolutely. 06:08 As soon as I feel possessive or jealous, 06:09 then that love is ruined. 06:11 But in a healthy triadic relationship, 06:13 I'm happy about the love between the other two, 06:15 and they're happy about the love 06:17 between me and the one that they are left out of. 06:19 And that is true of the Trinity as well. 06:22 We see this whole teaching of the Trinity 06:24 throughout scripture, 06:25 we see in the Old Testament, you know, 06:28 speaking of God using three appellations of God, 06:33 Holy, Holy, Holy or the Lord bless you, 06:36 the Lord keep you, 06:38 the Lord make His countenance shine upon you. 06:40 We see these triadic passages often in very general terms 06:43 in the Old Testament. 06:45 And then in the New Testament, 06:46 we see them put out in more detail 06:48 where the Father, Son, 06:49 and Holy Spirit are specifically identified. 06:52 And so we see that 06:53 teaching of the Trinity throughout Scripture. 06:56 And then we notice something 06:58 when Jesus is on the cross, He says, 07:01 "How many times my God, my God." 07:05 And so what that says to me 07:06 is that He's now left out of the Trinity 07:08 because He's bearing the sin of the world. 07:11 And so the cost of our belonging was His exclusion. 07:15 Wow. 07:17 Because the only way 07:18 that we could be brought back into heaven was 07:21 and be in the presence of the Holy God 07:23 as sinners was in Christ. 07:25 And so He became what Corinthians calls 07:28 the last Adam or the second Adam, 07:30 the representative of the human race 07:32 and because of His representation 07:34 of the human race, 07:36 we can be brought back into heaven in Christ. 07:40 But not just into heaven, 07:41 but into the most elite family in heaven, 07:43 the trinity itself. 07:45 And I want to clarify, you just said that, 07:47 but I just want to clarify a point. 07:49 What you were not saying 07:51 that He was left out of the trinity permanent. 07:53 Permanently, no. 07:54 It was while He was on the cross. 07:56 He experienced the exclusion 07:58 that our sin should have caused us to experience. 08:01 And He became sin for us, 08:03 who knew no sin so that we could become 08:04 the righteousness of God in Him. 08:07 You know, when you really think about it, 08:08 perfect love... 08:10 When we think of God's essence of love, 08:12 anytime it's love just between two individuals, 08:15 there is something, 08:18 a motivation that I'm going to please you 08:21 because you pleased me. 08:22 But when you have a third person in there, 08:26 then suddenly that changes the balance 08:29 and everybody has to... 08:30 As you said, appreciate the love 08:32 between the other two, 08:33 allow and nurtured the love 08:35 between the other two without any jealousy. 08:37 So I think perfect love, 08:39 you know, J.D. and I were not able to have children, 08:41 and I wanted six. 08:43 But you have nurtured a lot of people. 08:44 Oh, we do. 08:46 Absolutely, with the lot of spiritual children, 08:47 but I wanted six children. 08:49 I mean, I just wanted babies so badly. 08:52 And I think that even though we do nurture others 08:55 and we have spiritual children. 08:57 I still think that there's something 08:58 that would be different 09:00 had we had a child in our home for those, 09:03 you know, that period of 18 to 20 years 09:05 while they're growing. 09:06 Because I think that you really learn 09:08 how to love in a deeper level 09:10 because of the love you give to a child. 09:13 It changed my life having children. 09:14 Yeah. 09:15 Yeah, really, really, really mellowed me a lot. 09:18 And it helped me to become less selfish. 09:20 But I say every couple should have children, 09:22 it's just that some people don't have natural children 09:24 or even adoptive children, they have spiritual children. 09:26 But God calls us to take the wealth of our relationship 09:30 with one another and share with others. 09:31 Oh, absolutely, I believe that 100%. 09:34 So, very powerful. 09:35 That I love what you've said about the Trinity 09:39 because that is so true that, 09:43 you know, you see that the Holy Spirit 09:45 always gives glory to God or to Jesus, 09:48 Jesus gives glory to the Father, 09:50 and the Father says, He'll give all things to His Son. 09:52 So it's just amazing. 09:54 Isn't that powerful? The humility. 09:56 That's how I think the humility of the Trinity. 09:58 Constantly giving to one another. 09:59 Right. 10:00 And God has built that capacity for unselfishness into us. 10:05 We are made in His image. 10:07 And if we live out of sync with that design, 10:10 it brings harm upon us and we start having problems 10:14 and loneliness is one of them. 10:15 Now, let's talk about loneliness 10:17 because you would think with all the social media 10:20 that people are being more connected. 10:22 I'd just say being artificially connected. 10:24 We were in a mall one day, 10:25 saw three little girls walking down the mall. 10:28 And two of them were just having 10:30 the best time interacting, 10:32 and the third little girl was just like this, 10:34 and we saw them about 30 minutes later, 10:37 there she was, and another 30 minutes. 10:38 And I told my husband, I said, 10:40 "You know, two are having a wonderful time 10:43 and this other girl is out with them 10:44 and she's just artificially connected, 10:47 she's not connecting with her friends there, 10:48 she is just talking on her Twitter account 10:51 or whatever it was that she was doing. 10:53 Oblivious to her surroundings. 10:55 And it seems like people... 10:57 We're hearing more and more calls coming into 3ABN. 11:01 It seems that the faster paced our life becomes, 11:05 the more technology that we have 11:08 which increases that pace. 11:10 It seems like there's a lot more loneliness. 11:12 I think that's true. 11:13 In fact, I'm drawing from the work of a man 11:16 named Dr. John Cacioppo out of the University of Chicago, 11:20 who is kind of the twine of loneliness research 11:23 if you want to call it that. 11:25 And he says that it's up from 20% in the 80s 11:28 he estimates to 40% now. 11:31 That's amazing. 11:32 Yeah, I personally corresponded with him 11:34 and he says he believes that 11:35 loneliness is pandemic at this point. 11:37 And it's ironic that it has pretty much correlated 11:42 with the increase in social media. 11:43 So the more technically and technologically 11:46 connected we are, 11:48 it seems the more disconnected we are 11:49 in terms of actual substantial relationships. 11:53 So what are some of the contributors 11:56 other than social media in being artificially connect? 12:00 What are some of the contributors to loneliness? 12:02 Yeah, I want to put this in a very positive light here. 12:05 God creates opportunities for relationship building 12:09 throughout the life cycle, if you can call it that. 12:12 So we're born... 12:14 And the first relationship 12:15 is to what we call a primary caregiver 12:18 which is typically a mother. 12:19 And the brain literally gets formatted 12:23 for love relationships in that first connection 12:27 that we have to our mother or whoever it happens to be, 12:30 and then the father has his own addition that he makes, 12:33 and then siblings make an addition, 12:35 and as life goes on God keeps introducing 12:38 and reintroducing new opportunities 12:41 for different kinds of relationship. 12:43 It's my belief that, you know, it's true that we miss out 12:46 if we don't have really great parenting 12:48 or really good bond with our parents, 12:50 but God constantly introduces new opportunities for us 12:54 to then recover from that loss 12:56 and learn again how to love and be loved. 12:58 You see God has built resiliency into human beings. 13:02 So that the lens that I like to look at this through is, 13:05 what can we do now 13:07 to try to come out of loneliness to love? 13:10 And one of the most important things that I can see, 13:13 that we can do is be a member of a church. 13:16 There are reams of research 13:18 that show that church attendance 13:21 and involvement is good for people. 13:24 Even with all the dysfunction in churches, 13:27 and some of the maybe false doctrine 13:28 that's being preached, you know, 13:30 still in spite of all that, there are very positive things 13:34 that come out of church involvement. 13:36 In fact, there's research 13:37 that women experience less depression 13:40 if they're involved in church. 13:41 There's a piece of research that was done on Hispanics 13:43 that showed that they had better health habits, 13:46 if they were involved in church. 13:47 There was a research that was done that showed that 13:50 if mothers were involved in church, 13:52 their adolescent children did better 13:54 even if the children weren't involved in church. 13:57 And there's research on an elderly, 13:59 senior citizens that shows that the quality of fellowship 14:03 or social engagement within church 14:06 is better for them 14:07 than the same amount of social engagement 14:09 outside of the church context. 14:11 That's fascinating. Isn't that amazing? 14:13 I mean, there are reams and reams of research 14:15 on the benefits of church involvement. 14:17 Another piece of research 14:18 shows that senior citizens do well in church 14:22 not just because of what other people do for them, 14:24 but because they have opportunities 14:26 to do for others. 14:27 If you think about it, 14:28 you never become useless in God's family 14:31 because no matter how old and decrepit you may get, 14:35 you can still pray for people, and you can still nurture them, 14:37 and give them your wisdom. 14:38 We have a woman in our church named Fashtai 14:40 who marched with Martin Luther King back 14:42 in the day, 14:43 and she's just a fountain of wisdom and encouragement, 14:45 and she's 94 years old now, 14:47 and just with every passing day she's a little more bent over. 14:50 But thank God for her, 14:51 she's still useful in God's family, 14:54 so I think one of the most important steps 14:56 we can take is to become a member of a church 14:59 and go in determined to learn from God 15:02 how to love and be loved, 15:04 and do what we can to improve that family 15:06 rather than going in and saying, 15:08 "What can the church do for me?" 15:09 Going in and saying, 15:11 "What can I do for this body of believers?" 15:14 And I think you're bringing up an extremely important point 15:16 because to have a friend you must be a friend. 15:20 That's right. 15:21 And it's sometimes there are people 15:23 who have joined the church, who are, will come to church, 15:26 who are very... 15:28 They may be very lonely, 15:29 but they will isolate themselves 15:32 and go sit on the back and they'll come in 15:33 and go out too quickly 15:35 or they don't reach out to say hello to anyone else. 15:38 And they assume if someone hasn't said hello, 15:41 that's sitting next to them, they may assume that, 15:44 "Well, this is not a friendly church," 15:46 but what they don't know is the person 15:47 sitting next to them is a bashful... 15:49 Just as lonely as they are. 15:50 Or a bashful visitor, 15:52 you know, who's having the same relationship issues 15:58 or struggle that they're having. 15:59 So this is something that don't you feel 16:02 if we're going to overcome loneliness, 16:04 we've got to be able to go out on a limb occasionally, 16:08 shake somebody's hand 16:09 or say, "Hi, I'm new to the church." 16:11 Whatever. That's right. That's right. 16:12 So there are two aspects to relationship formation. 16:16 I call it the two aspects 16:17 friend making and friend keeping. 16:19 Okay. 16:20 And friend making involves basic social skills, 16:24 what you do, just what you said a moment ago 16:26 that you engage in a conversation, 16:28 that you break through that little bit of discomfort 16:31 that you have with strangers, 16:32 and you engage and show an interest in those people, 16:35 and you learn how to have conversations, 16:37 it don't have to be deep conversations, 16:39 but meaningful and helpful conversations with people. 16:44 And you take an interest in them 16:45 and hope that they'll take a corresponding interest in you 16:48 and that's friend making. 16:50 Friend keeping involves being able to resolve conflict 16:54 which is taking the relationship 16:55 to an even deeper level. 16:57 And that involves really being able to talk 17:00 about the relationship itself. 17:02 Really the deepest level of communication 17:04 in a relationship 17:06 is being able to talk about the relationship itself 17:09 in a productive and redemptive way. 17:11 And once you open that work room 17:14 where you can actually talk about the relationship itself, 17:17 you can go back to that work room any time. 17:19 All right, so give us some examples 17:21 because that could seem vague to someone. 17:23 Oh, man. Okay, local church. 17:25 Okay, I've been worshipping 17:27 with these people for a long time 17:29 and there's a particular person in the church 17:31 that seems irritated with me on a regular basis. 17:36 The ability to sit down with that person and say, 17:39 "You know, it just seems like there's some tension 17:41 in our relationship, 17:42 is there something that I did to contribute to that? 17:46 Do you want to talk to me about it? 17:47 Is there something you need to say to me?" 17:49 It takes a lot of courage 17:50 to have a conversation like that, 17:52 but often those conversations are the most rewarding 17:55 and that person 17:57 because they know that we are going to be 18:00 really brutally honest with them 18:02 even to our own discomfort, 18:04 they're gonna trust us, 18:06 they know what to expect from us. 18:07 They know, "If that person has an issue with me, 18:09 they're gonna come to me about it, 18:10 they're not gonna talking to someone else. 18:12 So if we be willing to put up with the discomfort 18:16 that sometimes comes into relationships 18:18 and just be honest with one another 18:20 and be in the moment with that person 18:21 and say, "Look, is there something here 18:24 we need to talk about? 18:25 Let's work this out together." 18:27 A lot of times those kind of conversations 18:29 pay huge dividends. 18:30 Amen. Amen. Yeah. 18:32 And that's the way God would have us to do it, 18:34 is to go first to our brother and talk about that. 18:38 And what we have with social media 18:39 is people relating on a very, very surface level. 18:43 What often happens with social media 18:44 is people put their best image out there, you know. 18:49 And people will look at social media 18:51 and they'll compare the reality of their life 18:54 with all the warts and all the flaws 18:56 with the polished exterior of someone else's life. 18:59 And they'll start comparing themselves 19:00 and get very discouraged. 19:02 So some of my clients I tell them, 19:04 "If you want to get well, 19:05 if you want to get over depression, 19:07 you've got to get off social media." 19:08 And some of them I say, 19:10 "If you want to get out of this isolative state you're in, 19:12 you need to set up a Facebook account." 19:14 So it's different for each person. 19:16 Social media doesn't have to cause loneliness, 19:19 but it often does if it's not used well. 19:21 Okay. Yeah. 19:23 So what are some of the other contributors to loneliness? 19:26 I would say that people that are raised in environments 19:30 where they didn't learn good communication 19:31 and relationship building skills 19:34 are gonna come into adult life with a disadvantage. 19:37 And the best thing to do in a situation like that 19:40 is to be very honest about it. 19:42 Often the very first meaningful relationship 19:44 people will develop is a professional one, 19:47 where they go to a counselor and they say, 19:49 "Look, I'm having trouble, 19:50 you know, I can't seem to form and hang on to relationships, 19:54 I've been through three divorces," 19:55 or whatever if they're honest with that professional, 19:58 sometimes they can form 19:59 the first meaningful relationship of their life 20:02 with that professional. 20:04 And they can learn as a result of the counseling process 20:07 that there were certain things in the home of origin 20:09 that set them up for relationship failure, 20:12 and then they can create a plan 20:15 where they can take proactive steps to correct 20:18 what was wrong with their developmental process. 20:20 You know, I am sitting here 20:22 thinking of a variety of people actually, 20:25 but what you just said 20:27 is not just having problems in a marriage, 20:30 say multiple marriages. 20:32 But if someone is having a difficult time 20:36 making and keeping friends, sometimes people, 20:40 they can't get people to be honest enough. 20:42 Sometimes, you know, let's be honest, 20:44 it takes a bold person to be honest 20:48 when someone comes and says, "What's wrong with me, 20:50 nobody likes me, you know, people seem to avoid me." 20:54 You have a tendency sometimes to talk about their good trades 20:59 and apologize for others, 21:01 but whereas if you went to a professional, 21:05 that person might be able to say, 21:07 "Well, let's examine what you're doing, 21:08 what are your communication habits, 21:10 what are the things that you do 21:12 that sabotage a relationship building." 21:16 That's right. 21:17 And often a professional can start there with the person 21:20 and that can become a very meaningful relationship. 21:22 I also encourage people to start with relationships 21:26 that are a little less complicated. 21:29 For instance befriending children 21:30 or befriending the elderly, 21:32 and going and ministering to them 21:33 in a nursing home or whatever. 21:35 It's good. 21:36 So fairly straightforward, clear relationship, 21:38 you're just going to listen and to encourage them 21:41 or whatever minister to them. 21:42 And I also encourage people to have pets. 21:44 A lot of times pets can reveal 21:47 to people aspects of God's character 21:49 that they've never seen through other human being. 21:51 So start with those easier relationships 21:53 and then try to build on that. 21:54 And church is an excellent place 21:57 to begin that process. 21:59 One of the analogies that the Bible uses 22:01 to describe the church is that it's the family of God. 22:04 And so a lot of times all the things 22:06 that went wrong in our life process so far 22:08 and the relationships 22:10 that didn't work out or the formatting in our brain 22:12 that really didn't get established in childhood, 22:14 we can kind of start from ground zero again 22:17 and kind of get repaired it even within the body of Christ. 22:21 Because there's mothers and fathers in Israel 22:23 that are looking for people to nurture, 22:25 or we can at least have sibling relationships 22:27 where we can work together in service for God. 22:30 So like you said a minute ago, I encourage people not to just 22:33 come and sit and listen and then leave, 22:35 I encourage them to get involved in something 22:37 that involves horizontal relationships with people 22:40 where you're actually working side by side 22:42 or engaging with one another 22:44 in a more kind of a conversational format 22:47 versus just sitting and listening to the preacher 22:49 which can happen in a formal church service. 22:52 And there are many opportunities for that. 22:54 There's something going through my mind 22:55 if I can figure out a way to say... 23:00 Let me see, essentially if we are going to church 23:05 and we're trying to make friends, 23:07 we've got to realize 23:08 that we've got to bring something to the table. 23:10 And what I'm saying is, there are people 23:12 who are so devoid of social interaction 23:19 that they go to church and latch on to someone 23:22 and just nearly suck the life out of them, 23:24 it's what I'm going to say. 23:26 This is not being very tactful. 23:28 But it's absolutely true. But it happens. 23:31 And they will typically go for the person 23:34 who is probably has already got 20 or 30 people 23:38 that already are attached. 23:40 They'll go for the most prominent, visible person. 23:41 The most prominent, visible person. Yeah. 23:43 So one thing is it fair to say that 23:46 if we are wanting to overcome loneliness, 23:50 that what we need to do 23:52 is check out someone else's availability... 23:57 I don't want to say convenience because it sounds bad, 23:59 but we don't want to try to force a relation, 24:03 an inconvenient relationship, 24:04 we need to be there to give 24:07 as much as to receive, is that right? 24:09 People should be honest about their neediness. 24:13 It's not ashamed to be needy, so don't pretend you're not, 24:17 if you're needy, if you're lonely, 24:18 be honest about it. 24:20 But be respectful of other people's boundaries 24:23 and their limitations as human beings so go to them. 24:26 If you think you might get something 24:29 from a relationship with a person, 24:30 be honest about it and ask them, 24:32 "You know, could we take a walk, 24:33 maybe once a month, half hour walk together, 24:36 I would really enjoy getting to know you better 24:39 and gleaning some of your wisdom." 24:41 You know, being upfront and honest 24:43 about what you need with that person 24:45 is gonna make it a lot more manageable for them 24:47 than if you just come and kind of glom on to them. 24:50 I was talking with someone once and I told them 24:52 what you need to do is find someone in the church 24:56 because they were saying... 24:57 You know, my husband and I travel so much 24:59 that we're often not here, 25:00 we just kind of get little bits and pieces, 25:01 and they said, "Well, I feel lonely 25:03 even in the church." 25:04 And I said, "Well, you know, there's probably others 25:06 who feel that way, you need to seek out." 25:08 You know, well, I've tried to connect 25:09 with so and so and so and so, 25:11 they're just too busy for me 25:12 or they think they're too good for me. 25:14 And that's, you know, as soon as someone says 25:16 that it's a red flag coming up. 25:18 But I said, "You know, there's other people 25:19 in the church who are also lonely." 25:22 "Well, I don't want to do. 25:23 They're not as much fun or they're not as exciting." 25:26 You know, and it's kind of... 25:28 These are the things that I feel to overcome loneliness, 25:33 and even which can lead to a depression. 25:36 Often what we need to do is to learn to give of ourselves, 25:40 and then that's when real relationships begin. 25:43 I totally confirm that. 25:45 And another thing that will help 25:47 kind of absorb the weight of a person's neediness 25:50 is a group setting 25:52 where that person's need comes to the group 25:54 and not just to one individual. 25:56 So it's not overwhelming for that individual 25:58 so I think our churches need to have more support groups. 26:01 We just started one connected to my counseling practice 26:05 just last week, and it was amazing, 26:07 it was just a few people. 26:09 We hope to grow it from there, but they're gonna go through it 26:11 like a biblically based 12-step process. 26:14 And people were being very honest 26:15 and open about their struggles and about their need, 26:17 but it was coming on the group, it wasn't just one person 26:20 carrying the weight of that person's problems, 26:24 it was coming upon the group. 26:25 And then, of course, you know, 26:27 put on the altar before God with prayer, 26:29 so that's another way of dealing 26:31 with extreme need in individuals. 26:33 Amen. Well, this is just wonderful information. 26:36 We only have a minute, 26:38 I can't believe how fast our time is going by. 26:40 What would you...? 26:41 How would you like to, a final thought? 26:44 A final thought would be, you know, 26:46 the body of Christ is a family and find a good church. 26:50 Find a church that teaches biblical truth. 26:52 I'm a Seventh-day Adventist 26:53 because I believe the Seventh-day Adventist Church 26:55 teaches biblical truth, 26:57 and we want a clear picture of God, 26:59 that's what doctrine is for us to reveal God to us. 27:01 Amen. 27:03 And so we want good doctrine, 27:04 but we also want a healthy church family. 27:07 Go and do your best and if it doesn't work out, 27:11 go to another church, if that doesn't work out, 27:12 it's probably you. 27:16 Oh, Jennifer, thank you so much for being with us again today. 27:19 Pleasure. 27:20 And if you want to visit Jennifer's website 27:23 that's at www.jenniferjill.org. 27:29 You know, God created us in His image, 27:32 He is love, and He created us to love and to be loved. 27:36 You don't have to be lonely. 27:38 He never will leave you or forsake you 27:41 and He's got other friends and family out there for you. 27:45 Bye-bye. |
Revised 2017-09-18