Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
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and welcome again
to Issues and Answers.
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Boy, we've got an issue
today that is something...
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It's a hot topic and...
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Because it is something
that is happening so much
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in not only in
America but across the world.
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And what we're gonna be
talking about is loneliness,
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but more
importantly that's the issue,
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the answer is love so
from loneliness to love.
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And returning with us
today is our special guest.
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We're always glad
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when Jennifer Jill
Schwirzer is with us.
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She is a licensed
professional counselor,
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she is an author and a musician.
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And, Jennifer, thank
you so much for coming back.
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It's a pleasure to be here.
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Tell us a little bit about
your practice in Philadelphia?
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I have an office in my home
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and I do face
to face counseling.
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I also do quite a bit
of distance counseling.
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I'm a Seventh-day Adventist
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and what I find is
that there aren't enough
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Seventh-day Adventist
counselors to kind of meet
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the needs of the
Seventh-day Adventist people.
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And so Adventists
will go out of their way
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to find an Adventist counselor.
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And so that's where
distance counseling comes in
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because it's not always possible
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to see people face to face.
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So I do counseling
through Skype and phone.
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The Skype is what I was
just getting ready to ask you.
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That's interesting.
Yeah, FaceTime, Google chat.
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I've had one situation
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where I had
someone in Afghanistan,
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and some one in New Zealand,
and we would meet together.
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Yeah, it's crazy.
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Well, it just amazes me
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what you can do
with technology today.
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But, you know, I
think that technology today
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is part of the problem
and we'll get into that,
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because I think it
seems to me the more...
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It's a double-edged sword.
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It is a double-edged sword.
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And it seems that the
more technology we've gotten,
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people are beginning to with
all the social media accounts,
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people are
artificially connected
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and loneliness is on the rise.
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That's right.
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But tell us
about Jennifer Bricker?
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Okay, I want to start off
this with a really cool story,
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and that is this young
woman named Jennifer Bricker,
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who was rejected
by her birth family
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because of the disability
that she had and was adopted.
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And her adoptive parents,
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the Brickers had one
rule in their home is that,
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and that was that you
could never say, "I can't."
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And so Jennifer
was this very feisty,
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very driven individual
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and she began
to excel in sports.
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And specifically she
excelled at gymnastics.
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In fact, she
became the state champion
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in Illinois for gymnastics.
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And this was doubly remarkable
because Jennifer had no legs,
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that was why she had been
rejected by her birth family.
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Wow. That gave me
chills listening to that.
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Isn't that amazing?
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And you should see the footage,
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put that in a
YouTube search engine
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and look at some of
the footage of her flipping
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and doing all
kinds of crazy things,
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she's amazing.
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But the story goes on.
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She at a certain
point as an adolescent
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became very, very
admiring of a certain gymnast
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named Dominique Moceanu.
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She was part of the
American team that won in 1996.
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And she especially
loved this Dominique Moceanu
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because she seemed to
have a certain spark to her
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that Jennifer really related to.
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And one day she asked
her mother, "Mom, you know,
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I'm curious
about my birth family."
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The mother pulled
the file on the adoption
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and it was a closed adoption,
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but there had
been a clerical error
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and the mother
discovered the girl's
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or the Jennifer's
birth name was Moceanu.
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And in that
instant Jennifer knew
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that Dominique
Moceanu was her sister.
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Oh, my God.
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Isn't that amazing? Yes.
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And so she contacted
her and they connected
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and there's a third sister
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that looks even
more like Jennifer
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than Danielle that even though
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there was some
resemblance there too.
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And, of course,
it's a beautiful story
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of reuniting
with a lost sibling.
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And I think of us, Shelley,
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and I think of how really
we're all long lost siblings,
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aren't we, because we
come from the same parents.
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And we have this drive
and this need to belong.
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And that need for
belonging is something
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that God has built into us
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because we were
made in God's image,
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and God is love.
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And we tend to
think of God's love
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as love extending
from God upon His creation.
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But if you think about
it, God's attribute of love,
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His essence is love,
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and so it
preexisted the creation.
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Yes.
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So even within God,
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there is love
between the Father,
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Son, and Holy Spirit.
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And God built that same
principle of love into us,
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the crowning
act of His creation.
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And so we have
that same capacity
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for very deep
intimate attachment.
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And if we don't
have those attachments,
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we don't thrive well.
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And so we are really
long lost brothers and sisters
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that are in the process
by God's grace of learning
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how to love and be loved.
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Very interesting,
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doing little study
on the Trinity lately.
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And as I'm thinking about
this in terms of relationship,
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what I realize is that
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the number three
is very illustrative
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of the principle of love.
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If you think about it,
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human relationships
that start out as dyadic,
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two in the relationship
tend to branch out into triads.
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Man meets woman, they marry,
they fall in love, get married,
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and they have what?
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Typically have a child.
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Then the parent,
child relationship
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eventually becomes a triad
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when another child
enters the picture.
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And so what we see in human life
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is that dyads often
branch out into triads.
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And what's cool
about triadic relationships
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is that they are an
excellent opportunity
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to manifest true love.
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Because when I'm in
a triadic relationship,
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I have to
appreciate and be happy
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about the love
between the other two.
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Absolutely.
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As soon as I feel
possessive or jealous,
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then that love is ruined.
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But in a healthy
triadic relationship,
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I'm happy about the
love between the other two,
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and they're happy about the love
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between me and the one
that they are left out of.
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And that is true of
the Trinity as well.
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We see this whole
teaching of the Trinity
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throughout scripture,
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we see in the Old
Testament, you know,
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speaking of God using
three appellations of God,
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Holy, Holy, Holy
or the Lord bless you,
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the Lord keep you,
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the Lord make His
countenance shine upon you.
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We see these triadic passages
often in very general terms
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in the Old Testament.
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And then in the New Testament,
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we see them put
out in more detail
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where the Father, Son,
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and Holy Spirit are
specifically identified.
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And so we see that
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teaching of the
Trinity throughout Scripture.
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And then we notice something
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when Jesus is on
the cross, He says,
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"How many times my God, my God."
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And so what that says to me
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is that He's now
left out of the Trinity
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because He's bearing
the sin of the world.
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And so the cost of our
belonging was His exclusion.
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Wow.
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Because the only way
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that we could be
brought back into heaven was
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and be in the
presence of the Holy God
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as sinners was in Christ.
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And so He became
what Corinthians calls
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the last Adam
or the second Adam,
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the
representative of the human race
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and because of
His representation
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of the human race,
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we can be brought
back into heaven in Christ.
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But not just into heaven,
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but into the most
elite family in heaven,
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the trinity itself.
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And I want to
clarify, you just said that,
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but I just want
to clarify a point.
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What you were not saying
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that He was left out
of the trinity permanent.
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Permanently, no.
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It was while He
was on the cross.
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He experienced the exclusion
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that our sin should
have caused us to experience.
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And He became sin for us,
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who knew no sin so
that we could become
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the righteousness of God in Him.
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You know, when you
really think about it,
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perfect love...
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When we think of
God's essence of love,
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anytime it's love just
between two individuals,
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there is something,
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a motivation that
I'm going to please you
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because you pleased me.
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But when you have a
third person in there,
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then suddenly that
changes the balance
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and everybody has to...
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As you said, appreciate the love
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between the other two,
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allow and nurtured the love
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between the other
two without any jealousy.
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So I think perfect love,
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you know, J.D. and I were
not able to have children,
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and I wanted six.
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But you have
nurtured a lot of people.
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Oh, we do.
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Absolutely, with the
lot of spiritual children,
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but I wanted six children.
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I mean, I just
wanted babies so badly.
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And I think that even
though we do nurture others
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and we have spiritual children.
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I still think
that there's something
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that would be different
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had we had a child
in our home for those,
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you know, that
period of 18 to 20 years
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while they're growing.
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Because I think
that you really learn
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how to love in a deeper level
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because of the love
you give to a child.
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It changed my
life having children.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, really, really,
really mellowed me a lot.
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And it helped me to
become less selfish.
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But I say every
couple should have children,
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it's just that some people
don't have natural children
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or even adoptive children,
they have spiritual children.
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But God calls us to take
the wealth of our relationship
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with one another
and share with others.
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Oh, absolutely, I
believe that 100%.
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So, very powerful.
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That I love what
you've said about the Trinity
00:09:35.44\00:09:39.91
because that is so true that,
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you know, you see
that the Holy Spirit
00:09:43.08\00:09:45.71
always gives glory
to God or to Jesus,
00:09:45.75\00:09:48.65
Jesus gives glory to the Father,
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and the Father says, He'll
give all things to His Son.
00:09:50.32\00:09:52.42
So it's just amazing.
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Isn't that
powerful? The humility.
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That's how I think the
humility of the Trinity.
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Constantly
giving to one another.
00:09:58.23\00:09:59.56
Right.
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And God has built that capacity
for unselfishness into us.
00:10:00.96\00:10:05.50
We are made in His image.
00:10:05.53\00:10:07.24
And if we live out of
sync with that design,
00:10:07.27\00:10:10.71
it brings harm upon us
and we start having problems
00:10:10.74\00:10:14.11
and loneliness is one of them.
00:10:14.14\00:10:15.84
Now, let's talk about loneliness
00:10:15.88\00:10:17.85
because you would think
with all the social media
00:10:17.88\00:10:20.78
that people are
being more connected.
00:10:20.82\00:10:22.48
I'd just say being
artificially connected.
00:10:22.52\00:10:24.59
We were in a mall one day,
00:10:24.62\00:10:25.95
saw three little
girls walking down the mall.
00:10:25.99\00:10:28.36
And two of them were just having
00:10:28.39\00:10:30.33
the best time interacting,
00:10:30.36\00:10:32.09
and the third little
girl was just like this,
00:10:32.13\00:10:34.90
and we saw them
about 30 minutes later,
00:10:34.93\00:10:37.00
there she was, and
another 30 minutes.
00:10:37.03\00:10:38.67
And I told my husband, I said,
00:10:38.70\00:10:40.47
"You know, two are
having a wonderful time
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and this other
girl is out with them
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and she's just
artificially connected,
00:10:44.54\00:10:47.04
she's not connecting
with her friends there,
00:10:47.08\00:10:48.71
she is just talking
on her Twitter account
00:10:48.74\00:10:51.68
or whatever it was
that she was doing.
00:10:51.71\00:10:53.68
Oblivious to her surroundings.
00:10:53.72\00:10:55.28
And it seems like people...
00:10:55.32\00:10:57.85
We're hearing more and
more calls coming into 3ABN.
00:10:57.89\00:11:01.16
It seems that the
faster paced our life becomes,
00:11:01.19\00:11:05.09
the more technology that we have
00:11:05.13\00:11:08.23
which increases that pace.
00:11:08.26\00:11:10.07
It seems like there's
a lot more loneliness.
00:11:10.10\00:11:12.30
I think that's true.
00:11:12.33\00:11:13.67
In fact, I'm drawing
from the work of a man
00:11:13.70\00:11:16.37
named Dr. John Cacioppo out
of the University of Chicago,
00:11:16.40\00:11:20.71
who is kind of the
twine of loneliness research
00:11:20.74\00:11:23.81
if you want to call it that.
00:11:23.85\00:11:25.18
And he says that it's
up from 20% in the 80s
00:11:25.21\00:11:28.48
he estimates to 40% now.
00:11:28.52\00:11:31.22
That's amazing.
00:11:31.25\00:11:32.59
Yeah, I personally
corresponded with him
00:11:32.62\00:11:34.02
and he says he believes that
00:11:34.06\00:11:35.56
loneliness is
pandemic at this point.
00:11:35.59\00:11:37.43
And it's ironic that it
has pretty much correlated
00:11:37.46\00:11:41.96
with the
increase in social media.
00:11:42.00\00:11:43.70
So the more
technically and technologically
00:11:43.73\00:11:46.63
connected we are,
00:11:46.67\00:11:48.00
it seems the more
disconnected we are
00:11:48.04\00:11:49.70
in terms of actual
substantial relationships.
00:11:49.74\00:11:53.44
So what are some
of the contributors
00:11:53.48\00:11:56.14
other than social media in
being artificially connect?
00:11:56.18\00:12:00.78
What are some of the
contributors to loneliness?
00:12:00.82\00:12:02.85
Yeah, I want to put this
in a very positive light here.
00:12:02.88\00:12:05.89
God creates opportunities
for relationship building
00:12:05.92\00:12:09.06
throughout the life
cycle, if you can call it that.
00:12:09.09\00:12:12.76
So we're born...
00:12:12.79\00:12:14.40
And the first relationship
00:12:14.43\00:12:15.86
is to what we call
a primary caregiver
00:12:15.90\00:12:18.17
which is typically a mother.
00:12:18.20\00:12:19.73
And the brain
literally gets formatted
00:12:19.77\00:12:23.14
for love relationships
in that first connection
00:12:23.17\00:12:27.24
that we have to our mother
or whoever it happens to be,
00:12:27.28\00:12:30.28
and then the father has
his own addition that he makes,
00:12:30.31\00:12:33.15
and then
siblings make an addition,
00:12:33.18\00:12:35.02
and as life goes on
God keeps introducing
00:12:35.05\00:12:38.19
and
reintroducing new opportunities
00:12:38.22\00:12:41.12
for different
kinds of relationship.
00:12:41.16\00:12:43.96
It's my belief that, you
know, it's true that we miss out
00:12:43.99\00:12:46.80
if we don't have
really great parenting
00:12:46.83\00:12:48.36
or really good
bond with our parents,
00:12:48.40\00:12:50.67
but God constantly introduces
new opportunities for us
00:12:50.70\00:12:54.37
to then recover from that loss
00:12:54.40\00:12:56.81
and learn again how
to love and be loved.
00:12:56.84\00:12:58.77
You see God has built
resiliency into human beings.
00:12:58.81\00:13:02.21
So that the lens that I
like to look at this through is,
00:13:02.24\00:13:05.91
what can we do now
00:13:05.95\00:13:07.45
to try to come out
of loneliness to love?
00:13:07.48\00:13:10.29
And one of the most
important things that I can see,
00:13:10.32\00:13:13.89
that we can do is be
a member of a church.
00:13:13.92\00:13:16.89
There are reams of research
00:13:16.93\00:13:18.86
that show that church attendance
00:13:18.89\00:13:21.56
and involvement
is good for people.
00:13:21.60\00:13:24.10
Even with all the
dysfunction in churches,
00:13:24.13\00:13:26.97
and some of the
maybe false doctrine
00:13:27.00\00:13:28.67
that's being preached, you know,
00:13:28.70\00:13:30.77
still in spite of all that,
there are very positive things
00:13:30.81\00:13:34.28
that come out of
church involvement.
00:13:34.31\00:13:36.44
In fact, there's research
00:13:36.48\00:13:37.81
that women
experience less depression
00:13:37.85\00:13:40.28
if they're involved in church.
00:13:40.32\00:13:41.65
There's a piece of research
that was done on Hispanics
00:13:41.68\00:13:43.55
that showed that they
had better health habits,
00:13:43.59\00:13:46.59
if they were involved in church.
00:13:46.62\00:13:47.96
There was a research
that was done that showed that
00:13:47.99\00:13:50.06
if mothers were
involved in church,
00:13:50.09\00:13:52.29
their adolescent
children did better
00:13:52.33\00:13:54.30
even if the children
weren't involved in church.
00:13:54.33\00:13:57.10
And there's
research on an elderly,
00:13:57.13\00:13:59.27
senior citizens that shows
that the quality of fellowship
00:13:59.30\00:14:03.94
or social
engagement within church
00:14:03.97\00:14:05.97
is better for them
00:14:06.01\00:14:07.34
than the same
amount of social engagement
00:14:07.38\00:14:09.08
outside of the church context.
00:14:09.11\00:14:11.48
That's
fascinating. Isn't that amazing?
00:14:11.51\00:14:12.98
I mean, there are
reams and reams of research
00:14:13.01\00:14:14.98
on the benefits of
church involvement.
00:14:15.02\00:14:17.59
Another piece of research
00:14:17.62\00:14:18.95
shows that senior
citizens do well in church
00:14:18.99\00:14:22.72
not just because of what
other people do for them,
00:14:22.76\00:14:24.79
but because they
have opportunities
00:14:24.83\00:14:26.19
to do for others.
00:14:26.23\00:14:27.56
If you think about it,
00:14:27.60\00:14:28.93
you never become
useless in God's family
00:14:28.96\00:14:31.17
because no matter how
old and decrepit you may get,
00:14:31.20\00:14:35.07
you can still pray for people,
and you can still nurture them,
00:14:35.10\00:14:37.31
and give them your wisdom.
00:14:37.34\00:14:38.67
We have a woman in
our church named Fashtai
00:14:38.71\00:14:40.71
who marched with
Martin Luther King back
00:14:40.74\00:14:42.08
in the day,
00:14:42.11\00:14:43.45
and she's just a fountain
of wisdom and encouragement,
00:14:43.48\00:14:45.78
and she's 94 years old now,
00:14:45.81\00:14:47.68
and just with every passing day
she's a little more bent over.
00:14:47.72\00:14:50.59
But thank God for her,
00:14:50.62\00:14:51.95
she's still
useful in God's family,
00:14:51.99\00:14:54.29
so I think one of
the most important steps
00:14:54.32\00:14:56.42
we can take is to
become a member of a church
00:14:56.46\00:14:59.03
and go in
determined to learn from God
00:14:59.06\00:15:02.86
how to love and be loved,
00:15:02.90\00:15:04.23
and do what we can
to improve that family
00:15:04.27\00:15:06.94
rather than going in and saying,
00:15:06.97\00:15:08.30
"What can the church do for me?"
00:15:08.34\00:15:09.87
Going in and saying,
00:15:09.90\00:15:11.24
"What can I do for
this body of believers?"
00:15:11.27\00:15:14.11
And I think you're bringing
up an extremely important point
00:15:14.14\00:15:16.64
because to have a
friend you must be a friend.
00:15:16.68\00:15:20.32
That's right.
00:15:20.35\00:15:21.68
And it's
sometimes there are people
00:15:21.72\00:15:23.25
who have joined the church,
who are, will come to church,
00:15:23.28\00:15:26.82
who are very...
00:15:26.86\00:15:28.29
They may be very lonely,
00:15:28.32\00:15:29.86
but they will isolate themselves
00:15:29.89\00:15:31.99
and go sit on the
back and they'll come in
00:15:32.03\00:15:33.70
and go out too quickly
00:15:33.73\00:15:35.10
or they don't reach out
to say hello to anyone else.
00:15:35.13\00:15:38.77
And they assume if
someone hasn't said hello,
00:15:38.80\00:15:41.40
that's sitting next to
them, they may assume that,
00:15:41.44\00:15:44.04
"Well, this is not
a friendly church,"
00:15:44.07\00:15:46.14
but what they
don't know is the person
00:15:46.17\00:15:47.54
sitting next to
them is a bashful...
00:15:47.58\00:15:49.48
Just as lonely as they are.
00:15:49.51\00:15:50.95
Or a bashful visitor,
00:15:50.98\00:15:52.75
you know, who's having
the same relationship issues
00:15:52.78\00:15:58.25
or struggle that they're having.
00:15:58.29\00:15:59.75
So this is
something that don't you feel
00:15:59.79\00:16:02.92
if we're going to
overcome loneliness,
00:16:02.96\00:16:04.89
we've got to be able to go
out on a limb occasionally,
00:16:04.93\00:16:08.16
shake somebody's hand
00:16:08.20\00:16:09.53
or say, "Hi, I'm
new to the church."
00:16:09.56\00:16:11.03
Whatever. That's
right. That's right.
00:16:11.07\00:16:12.90
So there are two aspects
to relationship formation.
00:16:12.93\00:16:16.17
I call it the two aspects
00:16:16.20\00:16:17.84
friend making
and friend keeping.
00:16:17.87\00:16:19.21
Okay.
00:16:19.24\00:16:20.58
And friend making
involves basic social skills,
00:16:20.61\00:16:24.15
what you do, just
what you said a moment ago
00:16:24.18\00:16:26.05
that you engage
in a conversation,
00:16:26.08\00:16:28.15
that you break through
that little bit of discomfort
00:16:28.18\00:16:31.42
that you have with strangers,
00:16:31.45\00:16:32.79
and you engage and show
an interest in those people,
00:16:32.82\00:16:35.36
and you learn how
to have conversations,
00:16:35.39\00:16:37.59
it don't have to
be deep conversations,
00:16:37.63\00:16:39.29
but meaningful and helpful
conversations with people.
00:16:39.33\00:16:43.97
And you take an interest in them
00:16:44.00\00:16:45.43
and hope that they'll take a
corresponding interest in you
00:16:45.47\00:16:48.07
and that's friend making.
00:16:48.10\00:16:50.07
Friend keeping involves
being able to resolve conflict
00:16:50.11\00:16:54.48
which is taking the relationship
00:16:54.51\00:16:55.84
to an even deeper level.
00:16:55.88\00:16:57.61
And that involves
really being able to talk
00:16:57.65\00:17:00.35
about the relationship itself.
00:17:00.38\00:17:02.58
Really the deepest
level of communication
00:17:02.62\00:17:04.95
in a relationship
00:17:04.99\00:17:06.32
is being able to talk
about the relationship itself
00:17:06.35\00:17:09.42
in a productive
and redemptive way.
00:17:09.46\00:17:11.93
And once you open that work room
00:17:11.96\00:17:14.03
where you can actually talk
about the relationship itself,
00:17:14.06\00:17:17.63
you can go back to
that work room any time.
00:17:17.67\00:17:19.77
All right, so
give us some examples
00:17:19.80\00:17:21.50
because that could
seem vague to someone.
00:17:21.54\00:17:23.71
Oh, man. Okay, local church.
00:17:23.74\00:17:25.94
Okay, I've been worshipping
00:17:25.97\00:17:27.31
with these
people for a long time
00:17:27.34\00:17:29.31
and there's a
particular person in the church
00:17:29.34\00:17:31.41
that seems irritated
with me on a regular basis.
00:17:31.45\00:17:36.12
The ability to sit down
with that person and say,
00:17:36.15\00:17:39.25
"You know, it just seems
like there's some tension
00:17:39.29\00:17:41.19
in our relationship,
00:17:41.22\00:17:42.79
is there something that I
did to contribute to that?
00:17:42.82\00:17:46.09
Do you want to
talk to me about it?
00:17:46.13\00:17:47.46
Is there something
you need to say to me?"
00:17:47.50\00:17:49.06
It takes a lot of courage
00:17:49.10\00:17:50.47
to have a
conversation like that,
00:17:50.50\00:17:52.40
but often those conversations
are the most rewarding
00:17:52.43\00:17:55.70
and that person
00:17:55.74\00:17:57.07
because they know
that we are going to be
00:17:57.11\00:18:00.41
really brutally honest with them
00:18:00.44\00:18:02.64
even to our own discomfort,
00:18:02.68\00:18:04.91
they're gonna trust us,
00:18:04.95\00:18:06.28
they know what
to expect from us.
00:18:06.31\00:18:07.65
They know, "If that
person has an issue with me,
00:18:07.68\00:18:09.52
they're gonna
come to me about it,
00:18:09.55\00:18:10.89
they're not gonna
talking to someone else.
00:18:10.92\00:18:12.85
So if we be willing to
put up with the discomfort
00:18:12.89\00:18:16.86
that sometimes
comes into relationships
00:18:16.89\00:18:18.69
and just be
honest with one another
00:18:18.73\00:18:20.43
and be in the
moment with that person
00:18:20.46\00:18:21.86
and say, "Look, is
there something here
00:18:21.90\00:18:24.07
we need to talk about?
00:18:24.10\00:18:25.43
Let's work this out together."
00:18:25.47\00:18:27.37
A lot of times those
kind of conversations
00:18:27.40\00:18:29.54
pay huge dividends.
00:18:29.57\00:18:30.91
Amen. Amen. Yeah.
00:18:30.94\00:18:32.27
And that's the way God
would have us to do it,
00:18:32.31\00:18:34.78
is to go first to our
brother and talk about that.
00:18:34.81\00:18:38.11
And what we have
with social media
00:18:38.15\00:18:39.61
is people relating on a
very, very surface level.
00:18:39.65\00:18:43.42
What often
happens with social media
00:18:43.45\00:18:44.95
is people put their best
image out there, you know.
00:18:44.99\00:18:49.16
And people will
look at social media
00:18:49.19\00:18:51.03
and they'll compare
the reality of their life
00:18:51.06\00:18:54.03
with all the
warts and all the flaws
00:18:54.06\00:18:56.16
with the polished
exterior of someone else's life.
00:18:56.20\00:18:59.47
And they'll start
comparing themselves
00:18:59.50\00:19:00.84
and get very discouraged.
00:19:00.87\00:19:02.20
So some of my
clients I tell them,
00:19:02.24\00:19:04.37
"If you want to get well,
00:19:04.41\00:19:05.74
if you want to
get over depression,
00:19:05.77\00:19:07.11
you've got to get
off social media."
00:19:07.14\00:19:08.91
And some of them I say,
00:19:08.94\00:19:10.55
"If you want to get out of
this isolative state you're in,
00:19:10.58\00:19:12.81
you need to set up
a Facebook account."
00:19:12.85\00:19:14.68
So it's
different for each person.
00:19:14.72\00:19:16.38
Social media doesn't
have to cause loneliness,
00:19:16.42\00:19:19.69
but it often does
if it's not used well.
00:19:19.72\00:19:21.72
Okay. Yeah.
00:19:21.76\00:19:23.19
So what are some of the other
contributors to loneliness?
00:19:23.22\00:19:26.86
I would say that people
that are raised in environments
00:19:26.90\00:19:30.07
where they didn't
learn good communication
00:19:30.10\00:19:31.93
and relationship building skills
00:19:31.97\00:19:34.17
are gonna come into
adult life with a disadvantage.
00:19:34.20\00:19:37.61
And the best thing to
do in a situation like that
00:19:37.64\00:19:40.08
is to be very honest about it.
00:19:40.11\00:19:42.21
Often the very first
meaningful relationship
00:19:42.24\00:19:44.91
people will develop
is a professional one,
00:19:44.95\00:19:47.25
where they go to a
counselor and they say,
00:19:47.28\00:19:49.48
"Look, I'm having trouble,
00:19:49.52\00:19:50.85
you know, I can't seem to form
and hang on to relationships,
00:19:50.89\00:19:54.09
I've been
through three divorces,"
00:19:54.12\00:19:55.52
or whatever if they're
honest with that professional,
00:19:55.56\00:19:58.13
sometimes they can form
00:19:58.16\00:19:59.49
the first meaningful
relationship of their life
00:19:59.53\00:20:02.63
with that professional.
00:20:02.66\00:20:04.03
And they can learn as a
result of the counseling process
00:20:04.07\00:20:07.87
that there were certain
things in the home of origin
00:20:07.90\00:20:09.87
that set them up for
relationship failure,
00:20:09.90\00:20:12.41
and then they can create a plan
00:20:12.44\00:20:14.98
where they can take
proactive steps to correct
00:20:15.01\00:20:18.41
what was wrong with
their developmental process.
00:20:18.45\00:20:20.92
You know, I am sitting here
00:20:20.95\00:20:22.28
thinking of a
variety of people actually,
00:20:22.32\00:20:25.89
but what you just said
00:20:25.92\00:20:27.26
is not just having
problems in a marriage,
00:20:27.29\00:20:30.83
say multiple marriages.
00:20:30.86\00:20:32.39
But if someone is
having a difficult time
00:20:32.43\00:20:36.00
making and keeping
friends, sometimes people,
00:20:36.03\00:20:40.30
they can't get
people to be honest enough.
00:20:40.34\00:20:42.27
Sometimes, you
know, let's be honest,
00:20:42.30\00:20:44.41
it takes a bold
person to be honest
00:20:44.44\00:20:48.24
when someone comes and
says, "What's wrong with me,
00:20:48.28\00:20:50.71
nobody likes me, you
know, people seem to avoid me."
00:20:50.75\00:20:54.65
You have a tendency sometimes
to talk about their good trades
00:20:54.68\00:20:59.02
and apologize for others,
00:20:59.05\00:21:01.46
but whereas if you
went to a professional,
00:21:01.49\00:21:05.09
that person
might be able to say,
00:21:05.13\00:21:07.20
"Well, let's
examine what you're doing,
00:21:07.23\00:21:08.93
what are your
communication habits,
00:21:08.96\00:21:10.70
what are the things that you do
00:21:10.73\00:21:12.93
that sabotage a
relationship building."
00:21:12.97\00:21:16.24
That's right.
00:21:16.27\00:21:17.61
And often a professional
can start there with the person
00:21:17.64\00:21:20.01
and that can become a
very meaningful relationship.
00:21:20.04\00:21:22.94
I also encourage people
to start with relationships
00:21:22.98\00:21:26.78
that are a
little less complicated.
00:21:26.82\00:21:29.05
For instance
befriending children
00:21:29.08\00:21:30.65
or befriending the elderly,
00:21:30.69\00:21:32.42
and going and
ministering to them
00:21:32.45\00:21:33.79
in a nursing home or whatever.
00:21:33.82\00:21:35.16
It's good.
00:21:35.19\00:21:36.52
So fairly straightforward,
clear relationship,
00:21:36.56\00:21:38.13
you're just going to
listen and to encourage them
00:21:38.16\00:21:41.13
or whatever minister to them.
00:21:41.16\00:21:42.73
And I also
encourage people to have pets.
00:21:42.76\00:21:44.67
A lot of times pets can reveal
00:21:44.70\00:21:47.17
to people aspects
of God's character
00:21:47.20\00:21:48.97
that they've never seen
through other human being.
00:21:49.00\00:21:50.97
So start with those
easier relationships
00:21:51.01\00:21:53.34
and then try to build on that.
00:21:53.38\00:21:54.71
And church is an excellent place
00:21:54.74\00:21:56.98
to begin that process.
00:21:57.01\00:21:59.01
One of the
analogies that the Bible uses
00:21:59.05\00:22:01.05
to describe the church is
that it's the family of God.
00:22:01.08\00:22:04.79
And so a lot of
times all the things
00:22:04.82\00:22:06.25
that went wrong in
our life process so far
00:22:06.29\00:22:08.62
and the relationships
00:22:08.66\00:22:09.99
that didn't work out or
the formatting in our brain
00:22:10.03\00:22:12.16
that really didn't get
established in childhood,
00:22:12.19\00:22:14.93
we can kind of start
from ground zero again
00:22:14.96\00:22:17.77
and kind of get repaired it
even within the body of Christ.
00:22:17.80\00:22:21.40
Because there's
mothers and fathers in Israel
00:22:21.44\00:22:23.64
that are looking
for people to nurture,
00:22:23.67\00:22:25.21
or we can at least
have sibling relationships
00:22:25.24\00:22:27.61
where we can work
together in service for God.
00:22:27.64\00:22:30.38
So like you said a minute ago,
I encourage people not to just
00:22:30.41\00:22:33.42
come and sit and
listen and then leave,
00:22:33.45\00:22:35.28
I encourage them to
get involved in something
00:22:35.32\00:22:37.35
that involves horizontal
relationships with people
00:22:37.39\00:22:40.32
where you're
actually working side by side
00:22:40.36\00:22:42.62
or engaging with one another
00:22:42.66\00:22:44.39
in a more kind of a
conversational format
00:22:44.43\00:22:47.16
versus just sitting and
listening to the preacher
00:22:47.20\00:22:49.66
which can happen in a
formal church service.
00:22:49.70\00:22:52.43
And there are many
opportunities for that.
00:22:52.47\00:22:54.30
There's something
going through my mind
00:22:54.34\00:22:55.77
if I can figure
out a way to say...
00:22:55.80\00:23:00.18
Let me see, essentially
if we are going to church
00:23:00.21\00:23:04.98
and we're
trying to make friends,
00:23:05.01\00:23:07.12
we've got to realize
00:23:07.15\00:23:08.48
that we've got to
bring something to the table.
00:23:08.52\00:23:10.05
And what I'm saying
is, there are people
00:23:10.09\00:23:12.89
who are so devoid
of social interaction
00:23:12.92\00:23:19.49
that they go to church
and latch on to someone
00:23:19.53\00:23:22.03
and just nearly suck
the life out of them,
00:23:22.06\00:23:24.53
it's what I'm going to say.
00:23:24.57\00:23:26.17
This is not being very tactful.
00:23:26.20\00:23:28.70
But it's absolutely
true. But it happens.
00:23:28.74\00:23:30.97
And they will
typically go for the person
00:23:31.01\00:23:34.18
who is probably has
already got 20 or 30 people
00:23:34.21\00:23:38.75
that already are attached.
00:23:38.78\00:23:40.12
They'll go for the most
prominent, visible person.
00:23:40.15\00:23:41.48
The most prominent,
visible person. Yeah.
00:23:41.52\00:23:43.08
So one thing is
it fair to say that
00:23:43.12\00:23:46.35
if we are wanting
to overcome loneliness,
00:23:46.39\00:23:50.93
that what we need to do
00:23:50.96\00:23:52.39
is check out someone
else's availability...
00:23:52.43\00:23:56.97
I don't want to say convenience
because it sounds bad,
00:23:57.00\00:23:59.80
but we don't want to
try to force a relation,
00:23:59.83\00:24:03.07
an inconvenient relationship,
00:24:03.10\00:24:04.84
we need to be there to give
00:24:04.87\00:24:07.21
as much as to
receive, is that right?
00:24:07.24\00:24:09.58
People should be
honest about their neediness.
00:24:09.61\00:24:13.15
It's not ashamed to be needy,
so don't pretend you're not,
00:24:13.18\00:24:17.25
if you're needy,
if you're lonely,
00:24:17.29\00:24:18.69
be honest about it.
00:24:18.72\00:24:20.36
But be respectful of
other people's boundaries
00:24:20.39\00:24:23.29
and their limitations as
human beings so go to them.
00:24:23.32\00:24:26.59
If you think you
might get something
00:24:26.63\00:24:29.13
from a
relationship with a person,
00:24:29.16\00:24:30.50
be honest about it and ask them,
00:24:30.53\00:24:32.47
"You know, could we take a walk,
00:24:32.50\00:24:33.94
maybe once a month,
half hour walk together,
00:24:33.97\00:24:36.60
I would really enjoy
getting to know you better
00:24:36.64\00:24:39.11
and gleaning
some of your wisdom."
00:24:39.14\00:24:41.54
You know, being
upfront and honest
00:24:41.58\00:24:43.21
about what you
need with that person
00:24:43.24\00:24:45.18
is gonna make it a lot
more manageable for them
00:24:45.21\00:24:47.72
than if you just come
and kind of glom on to them.
00:24:47.75\00:24:50.45
I was talking with
someone once and I told them
00:24:50.49\00:24:52.79
what you need to do is
find someone in the church
00:24:52.82\00:24:56.12
because they were saying...
00:24:56.16\00:24:57.49
You know, my
husband and I travel so much
00:24:57.53\00:24:59.13
that we're often not here,
00:24:59.16\00:25:00.50
we just kind of get
little bits and pieces,
00:25:00.53\00:25:01.86
and they said,
"Well, I feel lonely
00:25:01.90\00:25:03.37
even in the church."
00:25:03.40\00:25:04.73
And I said, "Well, you
know, there's probably others
00:25:04.77\00:25:06.10
who feel that way,
you need to seek out."
00:25:06.13\00:25:08.27
You know, well,
I've tried to connect
00:25:08.30\00:25:09.64
with so and so and so and so,
00:25:09.67\00:25:11.21
they're just too busy for me
00:25:11.24\00:25:12.57
or they think
they're too good for me.
00:25:12.61\00:25:14.34
And that's, you know,
as soon as someone says
00:25:14.38\00:25:15.98
that it's a red flag coming up.
00:25:16.01\00:25:18.08
But I said, "You
know, there's other people
00:25:18.11\00:25:19.51
in the church
who are also lonely."
00:25:19.55\00:25:22.12
"Well, I don't want to do.
00:25:22.15\00:25:23.49
They're not as much fun
or they're not as exciting."
00:25:23.52\00:25:26.15
You know, and it's kind of...
00:25:26.19\00:25:28.12
These are the things that I
feel to overcome loneliness,
00:25:28.16\00:25:33.56
and even which can
lead to a depression.
00:25:33.60\00:25:36.03
Often what we need to do is
to learn to give of ourselves,
00:25:36.06\00:25:40.47
and then that's when
real relationships begin.
00:25:40.50\00:25:43.54
I totally confirm that.
00:25:43.57\00:25:44.97
And another thing that will help
00:25:45.01\00:25:47.88
kind of absorb the
weight of a person's neediness
00:25:47.91\00:25:50.85
is a group setting
00:25:50.88\00:25:52.51
where that person's
need comes to the group
00:25:52.55\00:25:54.52
and not just to one individual.
00:25:54.55\00:25:56.22
So it's not
overwhelming for that individual
00:25:56.25\00:25:58.22
so I think our churches need
to have more support groups.
00:25:58.25\00:26:01.66
We just started one connected
to my counseling practice
00:26:01.69\00:26:05.46
just last week,
and it was amazing,
00:26:05.49\00:26:07.73
it was just a few people.
00:26:07.76\00:26:09.26
We hope to grow it from there,
but they're gonna go through it
00:26:09.30\00:26:11.37
like a biblically
based 12-step process.
00:26:11.40\00:26:14.00
And people were
being very honest
00:26:14.04\00:26:15.44
and open about their
struggles and about their need,
00:26:15.47\00:26:17.91
but it was coming on the
group, it wasn't just one person
00:26:17.94\00:26:20.88
carrying the weight of
that person's problems,
00:26:20.91\00:26:24.28
it was coming upon the group.
00:26:24.31\00:26:25.65
And then, of course, you know,
00:26:25.68\00:26:27.02
put on the altar
before God with prayer,
00:26:27.05\00:26:29.82
so that's another way of dealing
00:26:29.85\00:26:31.39
with extreme
need in individuals.
00:26:31.42\00:26:33.59
Amen. Well, this is
just wonderful information.
00:26:33.62\00:26:36.96
We only have a minute,
00:26:36.99\00:26:38.33
I can't believe how
fast our time is going by.
00:26:38.36\00:26:40.53
What would you...?
00:26:40.56\00:26:41.90
How would you like
to, a final thought?
00:26:41.93\00:26:44.67
A final thought
would be, you know,
00:26:44.70\00:26:46.13
the body of Christ is a
family and find a good church.
00:26:46.17\00:26:50.21
Find a church that
teaches biblical truth.
00:26:50.24\00:26:52.34
I'm a Seventh-day Adventist
00:26:52.37\00:26:53.71
because I believe the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:26:53.74\00:26:55.68
teaches biblical truth,
00:26:55.71\00:26:57.05
and we want a
clear picture of God,
00:26:57.08\00:26:59.25
that's what doctrine is
for us to reveal God to us.
00:26:59.28\00:27:01.68
Amen.
00:27:01.72\00:27:03.05
And so we want good doctrine,
00:27:03.08\00:27:04.42
but we also want a
healthy church family.
00:27:04.45\00:27:07.19
Go and do your best
and if it doesn't work out,
00:27:07.22\00:27:11.13
go to another church,
if that doesn't work out,
00:27:11.16\00:27:12.86
it's probably you.
00:27:12.89\00:27:16.13
Oh, Jennifer, thank you so much
for being with us again today.
00:27:16.16\00:27:19.23
Pleasure.
00:27:19.27\00:27:20.60
And if you want to
visit Jennifer's website
00:27:20.64\00:27:23.47
that's at www.jenniferjill.org.
00:27:23.51\00:27:29.11
You know, God
created us in His image,
00:27:29.14\00:27:32.25
He is love, and He created
us to love and to be loved.
00:27:32.28\00:27:36.69
You don't have to be lonely.
00:27:36.72\00:27:38.49
He never will
leave you or forsake you
00:27:38.52\00:27:41.32
and He's got other friends
and family out there for you.
00:27:41.36\00:27:45.26
Bye-bye.
00:27:45.29\00:27:46.63