Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
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and we welcome you
again to Issues and Answers.
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We're so glad
that you're joining us
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whether you're
watching by television,
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or the internet, or
listening on the radio.
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This is a program.
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It's a popular program
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because we talk about
issues that are pertinent
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to our culture
today, to our personal lives
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but we give biblical answers
how to overcome those issues.
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And today we
have returning with us
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and we're very
thrilled to have her again,
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Nicole Parker,
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who has a master's
degree in biblical counseling.
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And she has shared
her own personal testimony
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of how she was
sexually abused as a child
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and how the Lord led her
through a healing journey,
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and then gave her
the uncommon wisdom
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to share His comfort
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and healing process with others.
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But, you know,
sometimes when someone
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has been sexually abused,
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any kind of abuse
can lead to addiction,
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and specifically sexual abuse
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will often lead
to sexual addiction,
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and today we have
Nicole here to talk to us
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about the process of
overcoming sexual addiction.
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Nicole, once again we're
thrilled to have you back.
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Thank you so
much for being here.
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Now let's just
jump right into this.
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You have shared some things
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that have really
touched many hearts already
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but when we're talking
about the sexual addiction,
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let's describe what it is
and what are the root issues?
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Right.
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You know, sexual abuse
is rampant in our culture
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but so is sexual addiction
and often they're linked.
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The key thing is, all of us,
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if we struggle
with any kind of abuse,
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it doesn't have to be sexual,
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anything that wrecks my
picture of the character of God,
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is going to send me
into looking for others
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that I can
worship instead of God.
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If God does not seem lovable,
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and that's what
abuse does to us,
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it makes us go,
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"If God were love,
why did He allow this?"
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Or we just see Him as a lot like
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this abusive parent,
or teacher, or pastor.
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But people, you know,
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you used an
interesting word there
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because I think
some of our viewers
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are not going to
understand what you just said.
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You said that when our
picture of God is pitiful,
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when we don't know who He is
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that we look for
someone else to worship,
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people I don't think
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that I'm going
out to worship alcohol
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I'm going out to worship.
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So explain what you
mean by this word worship.
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Nobody says
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I think I'm just going
to worship something else.
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We try to worship God
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but if our
picture of God is skewed,
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we want to find
someone or something
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that will satisfy the
cravings of our souls.
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So that's
worship is when we put,
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the work that we put on
something else to satisfy us.
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God has created
us as worshippers.
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We long for two
things, for love and for value.
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Every human being
longs for love and for value
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and whatever we find
our sense of being loved in,
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our sense of being worth
in, whatever that thing is
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we'll wrap our
identity around it
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and we will worship it.
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We can't help it,
we're created worshippers.
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So we will either worship God
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or we will worship
someone or something else
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and whatever that is
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it will really be self-disguised
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those who think that
they worship their spouse.
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For example, nobody thinks
that they really worship them,
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but they think I
just love this person.
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I need this person.
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No,
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what you love is the
feeling you get from this person
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and when you lose that feeling
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you may be happy to
go find someone else.
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I see what you're saying.
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And it may be a twisted form,
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you know, those who
stay in abusive relationships
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and people say, "Why
are you staying with him."
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Well, often it's because
we get our sense of worth
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from being who we
wish God had been for us.
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If only God had
been there for me,
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I would have been happy
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and, therefore,
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I'm going to be
what I wish God had been.
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We always either
try to make someone else
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into what we wish God had been
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or we try to be
what we wish God had been
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and that's the
root of addiction.
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Okay.
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So what is sexual addiction?
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What does that term mean?
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You know, we live in a culture
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of sexual brokenness
and sexual obsessiveness,
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and pretty much anything
that you want these days,
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our culture will tell us
you can get this from sex.
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So you if you long for power,
then our culture says get sex.
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If you long for intimacy,
our culture says get sex.
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If you long for value,
if you long to be beautiful,
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to be anything that you want
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our culture can
try to convince you
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you can get it through sex.
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Sex goes to the very
deepest core of who we are
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because God
created us male and female.
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He created us sexual beings
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and we see now
that sex sells as well
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this is something that
we have become obsessive
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compulsive about
sex in our society.
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We have, sexual abuse is
one significant factor in this
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and I believe we have
no idea of the magnitude
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of how many people are
sexually abused these days.
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Even within the church.
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Even within the church
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but for those who even those
who are not sexually abused
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sexual
addiction is always luring
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because it appeals to the
deepest part of who we are,
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we crave love and worth.
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And our culture says,
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"You want 'em,
you'll get them here."
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But what do you
mean specifically
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by sexual addiction?
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I mean a preoccupation
with sexual things.
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Research shows us
that the majority of people
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a majority of men nowadays
are addicted to pornography
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and they may say
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well not as many women
are addicted to pornography
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so sexual
addiction is a male problem.
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I don't believe so personally
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because I see it
in so many people
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who come to talk to me
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women may not be reading or
watching pornographic things
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but they often are
listening to music,
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fantasizing dealing with novels,
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or pornographic movies
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or just movies that
are all about romance.
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Whatever is happening,
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it's still a
preoccupation with sex
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in the sense that if
I am craving something,
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sex will give it to me.
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So you...
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I've heard you use before
the illustration of a dandelion
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talk to us about that.
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Yes, you know, many people,
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if you Google how to
overcome sexual addiction,
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you'll find a lot
of different tools,
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good tools, useful
steps that can help a person
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but often we don't
get to the root issues.
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The root issues are
what go deep into our hearts
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these issues of love and worth.
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If I can't find my sense
of love and worth in Christ,
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I'm going to find
them in something else
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and that's going to, you know,
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have its power
for a little while
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maybe it'll be
alcohol for a while
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and then I realize this
is bad I kick the habit.
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Next, I'll be smoking
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or it'll be a
codependent relationship
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which is just
another word for idolatrous.
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Whatever it is that I go to
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movies, music,
TV, internet, food,
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they're all
really the same thing.
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I'm worshiping something
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that gives me either a
sense of love and worth
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or an escape from
my longing for them.
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And sexual addiction,
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would it be correct to
say that sexual addiction
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sometimes is just
pure peer pressure
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because I'm
thinking of young people
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who begin sleeping around
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and having
multiple sexual partners,
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and it's as a result
of just what they think
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society is expecting of them
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and they don't have a
sense of worth with the Lord.
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That's right.
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It's very often
that's how it starts out.
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They're living in a culture
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where virginity is
something to be gotten rid of
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and it's a sign of
how valuable you are
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if you're
desirable to many people.
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And the Gospel goes to
do exactly the opposite
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it says you are
so valuable to God
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that He wants you to be able to
have an exclusive relationship
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first with Him
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and then find deep
beautiful satisfying intimacy
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with your opposite sex partner
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if that's where He
leads us into marriage.
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May I ask you a
very personal question?
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Sure.
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You suffered sexual abuse
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which gave you panic
attacks, anxiety, depression,
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and you lost your
sense of worth if you will.
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Gave you a crazy
picture of who God is
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but my question is this:
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Can someone, was
it difficult for you
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sometimes people think
that Christians are against sex.
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We're not.
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No, not at all.
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And God
certainly isn't against sex
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and if you have
any doubt about that
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I just challenge you to
read the Song of Solomon
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because God
created us as sexual beings
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He created sex something
that is to be greatly enjoyed
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but it is to be greatly enjoyed
between a man and a woman
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in a marriage relationship,
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and sex part of that was to
me the beauty of it is that,
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you know, it's almost like
God is inviting us to become...
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To enter into the
creation process with Him
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because we procreate through sex
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and it is a beautiful thing.
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Often, what people,
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I feel sorry for
the people in the world
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because in the secular
world, sex is not always,
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well, often, is not an act
of intimacy or intimate love
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it is just purely
scratching an itch.
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I'm just going
to say it that way,
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but here for you
coming out of sexual abuse
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how long did it take
you, I mean you're married,
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what did God do to
heal you of the abuse
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to where you could enjoy
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a true intimate
relationship with your husband?
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You know, like most
people that are sexually abused,
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I had an
unhealthy interest in sex
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you could say I
was obsessed with it
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as a as a young
child and a teenager
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I was
continually consumed with it.
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And yet, I was
terrified of it at the same time
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I thought I could
never have this with a person
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and certainly not with a man.
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I was so terrified of men
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but the Lord led me
through a process of healing
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and then when he
brought my husband into my life
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as just a man that I
knew and started saying,
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"Nicole, this is
a man you can trust.
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This is a man
who's very much like me."
00:11:16.57\00:11:18.67
It was a real
battle for me to believe
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that God could heal me so much
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that I could go into
this situation, you know,
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what if I have to
marry this man, Lord?
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How can I live in
intimacy with him?
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And it was so beautiful
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how the Lord spoke to
me through my husband.
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You know, eventually my
husband told me you know what?
00:11:34.39\00:11:36.83
Neither of us knows how
is it how it's going to go.
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I had never had sex
with anyone voluntarily
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other than being
abused as a very small child,
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I didn't know what
it was going to be like.
00:11:45.47\00:11:47.17
But my husband said,
00:11:47.20\00:11:48.54
"You know, even
if we can't have sex
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the whole first
year of our marriage,
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I just want to be with
you, you are my best friend.
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I love you."
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And you know in that
context of safety and intimacy
00:11:56.95\00:12:00.22
knowing here is a man
who loves me, values me,
00:12:00.25\00:12:04.02
I saw Jesus in him,
00:12:04.05\00:12:05.99
and it gave me
the freedom to say,
00:12:06.02\00:12:07.96
"Now I want to marry this man."
00:12:07.99\00:12:09.82
How precious.
00:12:09.86\00:12:11.19
And, you know, praise
God it's never been an issue
00:12:11.23\00:12:12.99
in our marital life
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from the honeymoon
onward it's been beautiful.
00:12:14.93\00:12:17.53
What the devil told me
that I could never have
00:12:17.57\00:12:19.63
a happy, healthy,
beautiful sex life
00:12:19.67\00:12:21.57
where I could see the
character of God revealed
00:12:21.60\00:12:23.44
was a complete lie.
00:12:23.47\00:12:25.37
It's a beautiful area
where I see God's love
00:12:25.41\00:12:28.08
in ways I never could
have understood otherwise.
00:12:28.11\00:12:31.01
Okay.
00:12:31.05\00:12:32.38
Now, I kind of
threw you off there
00:12:32.41\00:12:33.75
because that question
was just burning me...
00:12:33.78\00:12:35.78
No, but it's so important
00:12:35.82\00:12:37.15
because if we if
we're sexually addicted
00:12:37.19\00:12:40.09
it's because we
have a wrong picture
00:12:40.12\00:12:41.69
of the character of God
00:12:41.72\00:12:43.06
and it's revealed in our
picture of sex, of intimacy,
00:12:43.09\00:12:45.76
God ordained intimacy.
00:12:45.79\00:12:47.36
So to have a true
picture we have to understand
00:12:47.40\00:12:49.33
God ordained a
beautiful kind of sexuality,
00:12:49.36\00:12:53.03
a beautiful expression of
who we are as sexual beings
00:12:53.07\00:12:57.41
within a committed relationship
between a man and a woman
00:12:57.44\00:13:00.61
where we understand
the character of God
00:13:00.64\00:13:02.74
and the way that he
interacts with his church,
00:13:02.78\00:13:05.01
the vulnerability,
00:13:05.05\00:13:06.38
that being naked and
not ashamed together.
00:13:06.41\00:13:08.65
Yes.
00:13:08.68\00:13:10.02
There's nothing that's more
healing to sexual addiction,
00:13:10.05\00:13:12.42
the unhealthy
preoccupation with sex,
00:13:12.45\00:13:14.79
than seeing sex the
way that God sees it.
00:13:14.82\00:13:16.93
It's a beautiful, holy,
wonderful taste of heaven.
00:13:16.96\00:13:21.96
Absolutely.
00:13:22.00\00:13:23.60
Now let's get
back to our dandelion.
00:13:23.63\00:13:27.60
Let's talk about the
roots of the problems.
00:13:27.64\00:13:31.14
Many people already know
00:13:31.17\00:13:32.64
many of the crucial steps
to overcoming sexual addiction.
00:13:32.67\00:13:36.28
We need to get deep
into the Word of God,
00:13:36.31\00:13:38.91
find the promises of God
00:13:38.95\00:13:40.35
that apply to our
particular struggles
00:13:40.38\00:13:42.72
and let them sink into our lives
00:13:42.75\00:13:45.05
like water in the ground.
00:13:45.09\00:13:47.06
We need prayer we
need to commune with God.
00:13:47.09\00:13:49.26
Very few people in
the world today pray
00:13:49.29\00:13:51.73
even those who
claim to be Christian
00:13:51.76\00:13:53.56
very few pray 5, 10
minutes a day in our culture.
00:13:53.60\00:13:57.33
We're so self-consumed
and obsessed with media,
00:13:57.37\00:13:59.97
and entertainment, and relaxing.
00:14:00.00\00:14:01.60
Or even, it
doesn't have to be that,
00:14:01.64\00:14:04.61
you can be
consumed with ministry.
00:14:04.64\00:14:06.07
I've met pastors
00:14:06.11\00:14:07.44
who don't pray more
than 5 or 10 minutes a day
00:14:07.48\00:14:09.91
because they're
just so called upon
00:14:09.94\00:14:12.65
and it's a
struggle in our own lives.
00:14:12.68\00:14:15.75
The devil loves to get
us consumed with good things
00:14:15.78\00:14:17.75
to keep us from the best things.
00:14:17.79\00:14:19.12
Absolutely.
00:14:19.15\00:14:20.49
So we need Bible study,
transformative Bible study
00:14:20.52\00:14:23.53
not just a quick reading of
a chapter a day or whatever.
00:14:23.56\00:14:25.89
So what is a
transformative Bible study?
00:14:25.93\00:14:27.80
Transformative Bible study is
where we really sink our roots
00:14:27.83\00:14:31.17
deep into how much God loves us
00:14:31.20\00:14:33.10
and how much we're
worth in his sight.
00:14:33.13\00:14:35.00
Throughout Scripture
we have two great themes,
00:14:35.04\00:14:37.41
Creation and Recreation.
00:14:37.44\00:14:39.17
He created us in his image
00:14:39.21\00:14:40.61
and he recreates us day by
day as we surrender to him.
00:14:40.64\00:14:44.38
Those two themes
need to be our meditation
00:14:44.41\00:14:46.72
and an understanding
of how much he loves us.
00:14:46.75\00:14:48.95
Practically, for me
00:14:48.98\00:14:50.32
because I know that
sounds kind of theoretical.
00:14:50.35\00:14:52.02
I needed to know that
God saw it was beautiful
00:14:52.05\00:14:55.46
that he said you are
a treasure in my sight.
00:14:55.49\00:14:59.33
You don't need other people
to think you're wonderful,
00:14:59.36\00:15:02.30
for me to think
you're wonderful,
00:15:02.33\00:15:03.97
and as long as you're
turning to other people
00:15:04.00\00:15:06.13
for your sense
of love and worth,
00:15:06.17\00:15:07.74
you're always
going to come up thirsty.
00:15:07.77\00:15:09.60
All of us, we
have an innate sense,
00:15:09.64\00:15:11.41
no matter how much
these people like me,
00:15:11.44\00:15:13.94
they don't see the depths of me.
00:15:13.98\00:15:16.24
If they saw the depths of
me, would they love me then?
00:15:16.28\00:15:19.61
God is the only one
00:15:19.65\00:15:20.98
who can satisfy
that depths of me
00:15:21.02\00:15:23.52
longing for love
00:15:23.55\00:15:24.89
because He is the only
one who sees us completely.
00:15:24.92\00:15:27.19
And when I know
thou God seest me,
00:15:27.22\00:15:29.52
you are my Creator
00:15:29.56\00:15:31.09
from the moment
that you created me,
00:15:31.13\00:15:33.06
you loved me with
an everlasting love.
00:15:33.09\00:15:35.73
That means that
there's nothing within me
00:15:35.76\00:15:37.93
that can add to my
worth by achievement,
00:15:37.97\00:15:41.54
and there's nothing I can do
00:15:41.57\00:15:43.34
that can take away
from my worth in God's eyes.
00:15:43.37\00:15:47.18
Nothing that I can
do can add or subtract,
00:15:47.21\00:15:50.01
I am priceless in his sight
00:15:50.05\00:15:52.28
this is what our devotional time
00:15:52.31\00:15:53.65
should be focused on every day.
00:15:53.68\00:15:55.15
We need time with God
00:15:55.18\00:15:57.09
that satisfies us
at our deepest level
00:15:57.12\00:15:59.25
we can figure out what
our deepest level longings are
00:15:59.29\00:16:01.46
by, what are the
lies the devil tells me?
00:16:01.49\00:16:03.36
When I'm down
00:16:03.39\00:16:04.73
what are the things
he brings to my mind?
00:16:04.76\00:16:06.19
Is it I just want
to escape to this movie
00:16:06.23\00:16:08.50
I just want to find somebody,
00:16:08.53\00:16:10.07
you know, do we
open our cell phone,
00:16:10.10\00:16:11.43
our refrigerator, or the Bible.
00:16:11.47\00:16:13.64
That's good. That's good.
00:16:13.67\00:16:15.27
But, you know,
some of these things
00:16:15.30\00:16:17.24
that we're talking about,
00:16:17.27\00:16:18.61
I mean we know that we
need to do these things
00:16:18.64\00:16:20.18
and quite often if
you look on the internet,
00:16:20.21\00:16:23.24
as you said
earlier, there's good steps,
00:16:23.28\00:16:25.71
but your
description of the dandelion.
00:16:25.75\00:16:30.05
I like what you say
00:16:30.09\00:16:31.42
because you've
got to get to the root
00:16:31.45\00:16:33.66
and I don't know that
we actually got that far.
00:16:33.69\00:16:35.82
The root issues are
always issues of worship.
00:16:35.86\00:16:40.00
If I cannot
believe that God is love,
00:16:40.03\00:16:42.06
that he loves me deeply
to the depths of who I am,
00:16:42.10\00:16:45.73
I'm going to crave
someone or something
00:16:45.77\00:16:48.00
that will make me
feel deeply loved,
00:16:48.04\00:16:49.64
and our culture very
commonly redirects us to sex
00:16:49.67\00:16:53.07
as the solution to this.
00:16:53.11\00:16:54.68
For women,
00:16:54.71\00:16:56.04
they often feel so
isolated from others
00:16:56.08\00:16:59.45
when they are dealing
with sexual addiction,
00:16:59.48\00:17:01.85
something like
masturbation or pornography.
00:17:01.88\00:17:04.55
When a man comes to me
00:17:04.59\00:17:05.92
and talks to me about his issues
00:17:05.95\00:17:07.29
and of course, I'm very careful
about counseling with the man
00:17:07.32\00:17:09.79
but if I have some, you
know, the man comes to me,
00:17:09.82\00:17:11.93
he's got his wife there
00:17:11.96\00:17:13.29
or we're in a
context with my husband there
00:17:13.33\00:17:14.70
or something like that,
00:17:14.73\00:17:16.46
when we talk about his
sexual addiction issues,
00:17:16.50\00:17:18.60
typically they will be sort of,
00:17:18.63\00:17:19.97
"Well, I've been
struggling with that
00:17:20.00\00:17:21.34
but I'm getting better,
I'm doing better right now."
00:17:21.37\00:17:24.11
Men, kind of, have
often this sense of,
00:17:24.14\00:17:26.17
"Well, you know, we
all struggle with it.
00:17:26.21\00:17:28.11
It's a guy thing."
00:17:28.14\00:17:29.98
And if they just stop doing it,
00:17:30.01\00:17:32.51
it's kind of like somebody
00:17:32.55\00:17:33.92
who is just taking the dandelion
00:17:33.95\00:17:38.25
and pulling off the
leaves and blowing on it.
00:17:38.29\00:17:39.95
They're not
getting to the root issue
00:17:39.99\00:17:41.86
is what you're saying. Right.
00:17:41.89\00:17:43.22
C.S. Lewis gives a
wonderful description
00:17:43.26\00:17:45.76
in his description
of the Lizard of Lust
00:17:45.79\00:17:48.00
how there's this
lizard on his shoulder
00:17:48.03\00:17:50.80
and when he starts saying,
00:17:50.83\00:17:52.20
"I've got to get rid of
it. I've got to get rid of it."
00:17:52.23\00:17:54.47
Then the Lizard
of lust starts going,
00:17:54.50\00:17:56.47
"No, you don't
need to, it's okay.
00:17:56.50\00:17:57.84
It's okay. I'll go to sleep.
00:17:57.87\00:17:59.21
I promise I'm not going
to cause anymore problems."
00:17:59.24\00:18:01.41
But it's when
we really tackle it
00:18:01.44\00:18:03.61
and break its back
00:18:03.65\00:18:05.25
that we can finally be freed
00:18:05.28\00:18:07.08
to serve God with
all of our hearts.
00:18:07.12\00:18:09.52
And it's when a
man starts going,
00:18:09.55\00:18:11.62
"Well, I need to get rid of this
00:18:11.65\00:18:12.99
or at least I need
to start doing better."
00:18:13.02\00:18:14.62
Well, now it's
getting to be several weeks
00:18:14.66\00:18:16.39
in between my
episodes or several months.
00:18:16.42\00:18:18.99
They may feel like,
00:18:19.03\00:18:20.36
"See, I don't really
have to give it to God,
00:18:20.40\00:18:21.80
I don't really
have to give my lust.
00:18:21.83\00:18:23.53
The problem is sexual
abuse or even just our culture,
00:18:23.57\00:18:26.67
weaves together,
00:18:26.70\00:18:28.04
sex which is a
beautiful holy pure gift of God,
00:18:28.07\00:18:31.14
with lust, which is an
evil, horrible influence,
00:18:31.17\00:18:34.18
and shame
00:18:34.21\00:18:35.54
which wants to
isolate us from others.
00:18:35.58\00:18:37.98
Sex and lust and shame are just
braided together in our minds
00:18:38.01\00:18:42.75
and it's almost like, you know,
sometimes I bake challah bread,
00:18:42.78\00:18:45.85
you weave braid
these three strips of dough
00:18:45.89\00:18:49.39
but then they arise
and then you bake them.
00:18:49.42\00:18:52.29
And what seemed like
they could be easily entangled
00:18:52.33\00:18:54.73
is now all of a
sudden one mass in our minds.
00:18:54.76\00:18:57.83
Sex and lust and
shame and a man feels like,
00:18:57.87\00:18:59.67
"Well, if I give up my lust,
00:18:59.70\00:19:01.87
I have to give
up my masculinity."
00:19:01.90\00:19:04.14
And for a woman they
often feel the opposite
00:19:04.17\00:19:06.21
they feel so
ashamed, so intensely bad
00:19:06.24\00:19:10.05
they're like,
"I'm the only woman."
00:19:10.08\00:19:11.81
Over and over
I've had women tell me
00:19:11.85\00:19:13.38
I just feel like
this is a man problem.
00:19:13.42\00:19:15.25
I can't believe
that I am the one
00:19:15.28\00:19:17.59
who's watching pornography,
00:19:17.62\00:19:19.02
I am the one who is dealing
with fantasy and masturbation.
00:19:19.05\00:19:22.72
These issues that no
one wants to talk about
00:19:22.76\00:19:26.43
but that men and
women alike are battling.
00:19:26.46\00:19:28.73
I would say probably 80% of
us are struggling, you know.
00:19:28.76\00:19:32.73
When you go to a church,
00:19:32.77\00:19:34.10
80% of the people are dealing
00:19:34.14\00:19:35.47
with a sexual
addiction of some kind,
00:19:35.50\00:19:37.67
preoccupation with
romantic, or sexualized themes,
00:19:37.71\00:19:42.04
or movies, or
music, or books or anything
00:19:42.08\00:19:45.75
all of these things
are traced back to the fact
00:19:45.78\00:19:48.45
that we want to get
our sense of love and worth
00:19:48.48\00:19:50.55
from somewhere else.
00:19:50.59\00:19:51.92
So that in order to
get rid of the dandelion,
00:19:51.95\00:19:54.39
I have to stop just picking
off the flowers and the leaves.
00:19:54.42\00:19:58.39
So what happens when a
person wants to actually tackle
00:19:58.43\00:20:01.43
the lust issue in their lives
00:20:01.46\00:20:03.80
is we have to take
a Biblical approach.
00:20:03.83\00:20:06.77
There's nothing evil
00:20:06.80\00:20:08.14
about picking off the leaves
and the flowers, you know.
00:20:08.17\00:20:10.71
Get rid of those
flowers on your dandelions,
00:20:10.74\00:20:12.47
by all means
00:20:12.51\00:20:14.01
and that's kind of
dealing with the behaviors.
00:20:14.04\00:20:16.28
So it's very important to
get accountability partners.
00:20:16.31\00:20:19.11
We set limits for ourselves,
00:20:19.15\00:20:20.65
you know, I'm not going to
be on the computer after nine
00:20:20.68\00:20:22.65
because I know that's
when I start drifting,
00:20:22.68\00:20:24.79
or I'm going to
set a covenant eyes
00:20:24.82\00:20:28.22
or some kind of
software on my computer
00:20:28.26\00:20:30.16
so that my
accountability partner
00:20:30.19\00:20:31.66
can see what I'm
actually accessing.
00:20:31.69\00:20:33.33
Is it called
Covenant eyes? Covenant eyes.
00:20:33.36\00:20:35.26
Coming from, of course, Job,
00:20:35.30\00:20:36.77
"I made a
covenant with my eyes."
00:20:36.80\00:20:38.13
But that's the name
of the software program.
00:20:38.17\00:20:39.80
Yes, for a small fee every month
00:20:39.83\00:20:42.14
you can have covenant eyes
monitoring your internet access
00:20:42.17\00:20:45.41
so that your partner
00:20:45.44\00:20:46.78
or whoever it is
that's holding you accountable
00:20:46.81\00:20:49.58
gets a report of
everything that you're accessing
00:20:49.61\00:20:52.01
and there they are notified
if you start doing something.
00:20:52.05\00:20:54.68
Those who are really
serious about overcoming,
00:20:54.72\00:20:57.09
they'll often take these steps.
00:20:57.12\00:20:58.85
They'll get rid
of the behaviors,
00:20:58.89\00:21:00.29
they'll start pulling off
the flowers and the leaves.
00:21:00.32\00:21:03.16
But God wants to go deeper,
00:21:03.19\00:21:04.76
he wants to go into
the issues of worship
00:21:04.79\00:21:06.49
because the issue was never
that we were behaving badly.
00:21:06.53\00:21:09.83
The issue is that
he wants our hearts
00:21:09.86\00:21:11.93
he wants us to know deeply
00:21:11.97\00:21:13.70
in ways we haven't
ever understood before
00:21:13.74\00:21:15.77
how much he loves us,
00:21:15.80\00:21:17.14
how much we're
worth in his sight.
00:21:17.17\00:21:19.41
And it's just like that
00:21:19.44\00:21:20.91
when we allow him
00:21:20.94\00:21:22.51
to go into the
deeper areas of our hearts
00:21:22.54\00:21:24.45
when we allow him to dig in
00:21:24.48\00:21:26.55
and get the root out
00:21:26.58\00:21:28.08
then that dandelion withers.
00:21:28.12\00:21:30.69
It doesn't
produce any more flowers,
00:21:30.72\00:21:32.95
any more of leaves,
00:21:32.99\00:21:34.32
the behaviors will wither up.
00:21:34.36\00:21:36.46
When we give
ourselves deeply to God
00:21:36.49\00:21:38.23
and allow him
to keep our hearts.
00:21:38.26\00:21:41.53
And God can keep our
heart as we get involved
00:21:41.56\00:21:44.03
as you said in
transformative Bible study,
00:21:44.07\00:21:46.20
when we're praying,
claiming the promises of God,
00:21:46.23\00:21:49.60
exercising self-discipline
00:21:49.64\00:21:51.11
by putting this
strict boundaries around us,
00:21:51.14\00:21:53.41
and having
accountability partners
00:21:53.44\00:21:56.04
all of those things,
00:21:56.08\00:21:57.58
but how does someone
00:21:57.61\00:21:59.71
who's watching
out there right now?
00:21:59.75\00:22:02.25
Nicole, how does someone
00:22:02.28\00:22:03.65
who is going
through the shame of it all,
00:22:03.69\00:22:08.32
you know, if they know
they've had a sexual addiction
00:22:08.36\00:22:10.69
and they are trying
to come out of this,
00:22:10.73\00:22:14.16
maybe they've
wounded somebody very deeply
00:22:14.20\00:22:16.93
because of their
sexual addiction.
00:22:16.97\00:22:19.33
How does someone
overcome the shame of it all?
00:22:19.37\00:22:23.04
You know I find consistently
any time I counsel with someone
00:22:23.07\00:22:26.98
who's struggling
with sexual addiction,
00:22:27.01\00:22:29.58
there's a very strong cycle
00:22:29.61\00:22:31.71
of a specific kind of unbelief
and pride that creeps in.
00:22:31.75\00:22:36.22
What happens is, you know,
00:22:36.25\00:22:38.09
as we've talked about
in a different program,
00:22:38.12\00:22:41.26
shame and guilt are
two different things,
00:22:41.29\00:22:43.63
both of them feel
like conviction for sin
00:22:43.66\00:22:46.39
they feel like dirtiness
they feel like defilement
00:22:46.43\00:22:49.46
but they're
actually very different.
00:22:49.50\00:22:50.93
Guilt is a message
from God that gives us hope,
00:22:50.97\00:22:53.77
it says, "There's something
that's come between you and me.
00:22:53.80\00:22:57.31
Let me take it off of you.
00:22:57.34\00:22:58.77
Let me set you free,
00:22:58.81\00:23:00.14
let me cover you with
my robe of righteousness
00:23:00.18\00:23:01.98
with my blood
00:23:02.01\00:23:03.35
I've already died for this sin.
00:23:03.38\00:23:04.81
Let me have it
00:23:04.85\00:23:06.18
and then you and
I can be close again
00:23:06.21\00:23:07.55
that's guilt
00:23:07.58\00:23:08.92
guilt is good it
brings us to our knees
00:23:08.95\00:23:11.72
it drives us to the cross.
00:23:11.75\00:23:14.72
I guess you're saying it's
like the conviction of sin.
00:23:14.76\00:23:17.79
Guilt is a valid
conviction that I have sinned.
00:23:17.83\00:23:20.66
Okay.
00:23:20.70\00:23:22.03
So when we have
guilt it brings us to pray,
00:23:22.06\00:23:26.30
to repent, to confess
00:23:26.33\00:23:28.40
and then when we
stand up from our knees,
00:23:28.44\00:23:30.67
we are to walk
in newness of life
00:23:30.71\00:23:32.27
praising God,
00:23:32.31\00:23:33.64
"Wow, you have set me
free, thank you so much."
00:23:33.68\00:23:37.45
But this is
where shame comes in.
00:23:37.48\00:23:39.25
Shame is a
message from the devil
00:23:39.28\00:23:40.92
that basically says
00:23:40.95\00:23:42.28
the Blood of Jesus
isn't enough to cleanse you.
00:23:42.32\00:23:44.32
So when you go to your knees
with that sense of defilement,
00:23:44.35\00:23:47.06
that's guilt.
00:23:47.09\00:23:48.42
When you stand
up from your knees
00:23:48.46\00:23:49.79
having repented and confessed
and you still feel defiled,
00:23:49.82\00:23:52.33
that's shame,
00:23:52.36\00:23:53.73
that's a message
from the devil saying,
00:23:53.76\00:23:55.66
"You're hopeless,
00:23:55.70\00:23:57.23
you can't be cleansed
by the Blood of Jesus.
00:23:57.27\00:24:00.04
What you've done is too bad."
00:24:00.07\00:24:01.84
So that unbelief,
00:24:01.87\00:24:03.20
that doubt about what God
says in His word about himself
00:24:03.24\00:24:06.07
that he's already
covered it, that he loves us,
00:24:06.11\00:24:08.68
that he will transform us,
00:24:08.71\00:24:11.15
that is now
followed up by shame.
00:24:11.18\00:24:15.25
Shame says, "You
can't be cleansed."
00:24:15.28\00:24:19.15
But the good news is,
00:24:19.19\00:24:21.16
and here's pride coming in
00:24:21.19\00:24:23.22
your blood will be enough
00:24:23.26\00:24:24.79
to supplement
the blood of Jesus.
00:24:24.83\00:24:26.16
Oh, whoa, I'm
sitting here and smiling
00:24:26.19\00:24:27.96
because I thought you
might tell me some good news
00:24:28.00\00:24:29.96
but you're saying this is
what shame will do to you,
00:24:30.00\00:24:32.63
what the devil's message is.
00:24:32.67\00:24:34.27
Shame will tell you.
00:24:34.30\00:24:35.74
The good news is,
00:24:35.77\00:24:37.21
you can supplement
with your own work.
00:24:37.24\00:24:40.14
So the devil will tell you
00:24:40.18\00:24:41.51
if you can just
atone for your bad deeds
00:24:41.54\00:24:44.41
if you can fix it
somehow, do more good works,
00:24:44.45\00:24:50.59
say you're sorry to God
over and over and over and over.
00:24:50.62\00:24:54.96
If you can finally convince God
00:24:54.99\00:24:57.09
to stop turning his back on you,
00:24:57.13\00:24:58.83
the ugly nasty sinner,
00:24:58.86\00:25:00.20
and finally he will
go all right, all right,
00:25:00.23\00:25:01.83
you keep begging,
00:25:01.86\00:25:03.20
maybe I will
forgive you after all.
00:25:03.23\00:25:05.90
When you take that approach
00:25:05.93\00:25:07.90
to what has
already been forgiven,
00:25:07.94\00:25:10.47
what has already been cleansed
00:25:10.51\00:25:11.84
because you've
repented and confessed.
00:25:11.87\00:25:13.94
Now, you cripple the
work of God in your heart.
00:25:13.98\00:25:16.48
What happens when a
sinner gets into this cycle
00:25:16.51\00:25:18.71
of unbelief and pride
00:25:18.75\00:25:20.08
I can't believe
that God forgives me
00:25:20.12\00:25:21.45
so now I'm going to
try to atone for my sins
00:25:21.48\00:25:23.92
and then maybe
I'll get forgiveness.
00:25:23.95\00:25:26.65
Then when you do that,
00:25:26.69\00:25:28.62
you've already set
yourself up for your next fall.
00:25:28.66\00:25:31.63
Because right now
you're temptation may be gone
00:25:31.66\00:25:34.03
so now you don't feel
like going back to this thing
00:25:34.06\00:25:36.60
but the next time
the temptation rises
00:25:36.63\00:25:38.67
you're going to know
in the back of your head,
00:25:38.70\00:25:40.74
I atoned for it last time,
I can atone for at this time.
00:25:40.77\00:25:45.24
And you will never break free
00:25:45.27\00:25:47.01
as long as you're
staying in that cycle
00:25:47.04\00:25:49.21
as long as shame convinces you
00:25:49.24\00:25:51.61
the devil himself convinces you
00:25:51.65\00:25:54.22
that the Blood of
Jesus won't cover you
00:25:54.25\00:25:56.22
just when you repent and
confess and give it to him.
00:25:56.25\00:25:59.45
It's like the
message of defilement,
00:25:59.49\00:26:02.06
is like a
jacket that's over you,
00:26:02.09\00:26:04.13
that God says to you
there's a jacket on you.
00:26:04.16\00:26:07.13
You're wearing
this black evil jacket
00:26:07.16\00:26:09.83
let me take it off of you
00:26:09.86\00:26:11.20
and cover you with my
robe of righteousness.
00:26:11.23\00:26:12.83
That's the message of guilt
a valid sense of defilement.
00:26:12.87\00:26:16.00
You've been
defiled by your own sin,
00:26:16.04\00:26:18.57
but shame is a message
from the devil that says,
00:26:18.61\00:26:20.78
"This jacket that's
around you cannot be removed.
00:26:20.81\00:26:23.11
I'm going to zip it on to you
00:26:23.14\00:26:24.48
and you will always be defiled."
00:26:24.51\00:26:27.52
And this is what
happens with a person
00:26:27.55\00:26:28.98
who has been
abused, sexually abused,
00:26:29.02\00:26:31.95
they can't
confess someone else's sin
00:26:31.99\00:26:34.36
and also with
someone who is addicted.
00:26:34.39\00:26:37.43
They feel still defiled
00:26:37.46\00:26:39.66
and so they believe
what they're feeling say
00:26:39.69\00:26:41.83
instead of what
the Word of God says.
00:26:41.86\00:26:43.77
But the good
news is there's hope.
00:26:43.80\00:26:46.84
God can heal you
from these addictions
00:26:46.87\00:26:49.40
and if you will
get into the Bible,
00:26:49.44\00:26:51.54
transformative
Bible study, prayer,
00:26:51.57\00:26:53.98
claiming God's promises,
getting a true picture of God,
00:26:54.01\00:26:57.15
have accountability partners,
00:26:57.18\00:26:59.01
as you said rejoicing,
00:26:59.05\00:27:01.05
God can heal.
00:27:01.08\00:27:02.95
Nicole, thank you so much.
00:27:02.98\00:27:05.02
We've enjoyed this time with you
00:27:05.05\00:27:06.62
and we just
appreciate you being here,
00:27:06.65\00:27:08.76
Nicole's ministry,
00:27:08.79\00:27:10.13
she and her husband
Alan have a ministry
00:27:10.16\00:27:11.89
called Heart Thirst
00:27:11.93\00:27:13.73
and you can go
to heartthirst.com
00:27:13.76\00:27:16.16
and get more of
their ministry materials.
00:27:16.20\00:27:18.60
They do a lot of seminars,
00:27:18.63\00:27:19.97
that'll give you more
information on this topic.
00:27:20.00\00:27:22.50
Thank you so much for joining us
00:27:22.54\00:27:24.41
and may God
richly bless you today,
00:27:24.44\00:27:27.14
multiplying his mercy,
love, and grace to you.
00:27:27.18\00:27:29.84