Hello, I'm Shelley Quinn
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and we welcome you
to Issues and Answers.
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This is a program
where we talk about issues
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that are really
pertinent to today's society
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and then we
provide a biblical answer.
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And today we're
going to be talking about
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how hearts heal
specifically from abuse.
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So this is a
program I think will bring,
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you know, God, we
can always count on God
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to bring healing in His wings.
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But today it's
going to encourage you.
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If you know anyone
that has suffered from
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sexual abuse or other abuse,
you may want them to tune in,
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but I encourage
you to stay tuned in,
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because we all need to know,
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how to minister
to those around us,
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and there's so many people
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who need to hear the good news
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that God has a
solution for this problem.
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Let me introduce
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our special guest
Nicole Parker, who is...
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She has a master's
in biblical counseling,
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and your husband
Alan Parker is a professor
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at Southern University.
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We're just really thrilled
that you're here, Nicole.
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Tell me a little bit
about how you became involved
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in biblical counseling?
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Well, you know,
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I always found
psychology fascinating.
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My dad had studied
some psychology in college
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and I remember
finding his psychology books
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around the house
and I would devour them
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even as like a
10 or 12 year old.
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I love to think
about how minds worked.
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But I was also going
through a lot myself as a kid.
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Now in some ways I had
the perfect upbringing.
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I had three wonderful sisters
and our parents moved us out
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into the country back
when I was just a baby
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so that we could be
raised out in the woods
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and the fields and the
forests were just wonderful,
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I loved it out there.
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We worked in the garden
which I didn't love as much,
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of course, as a kid, but
we had a great upbringing,
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perfect in many ways but...
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It almost sounds idyllic.
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Yes, but my parents
felt we were so protected
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and so safe in the
place where we were
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that they never
warned us about things like
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safe and unsafe touch.
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Okay.
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They didn't realize that we
would even be in any danger,
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we were just at
church and with family
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and hardly any time we
were ever around strangers.
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But they didn't know
that there was a relative
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who started sexually
abusing me at a very early age.
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And due to that and
some of the other factors
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going on in my life,
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I went into severe anxiety
and depression as a teenager
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and I didn't know how to cope.
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Were you able to tell
your parents about this?
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Or was this something that
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you felt so much shame and guilt
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that you kept it to yourself?
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You know, as a child,
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I didn't know how to process it.
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Okay.
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I remember one time that
my mother almost caught him
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abusing me,
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but I've been
praying and praying I mean,
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we went to church every
week my whole childhood,
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I knew that God was
there and that Jesus loved me,
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I sang all the songs
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but when it came to
applying the truth of the Bible
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to this situation, I
was absolutely clueless.
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I remember wanting so
much and praying, "Dear Jesus,
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please help mommy come and see,"
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but then when I
heard her coming,
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he was so terrified
that as a small child
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I didn't know how to process it.
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I thought, he is
not gonna get spanked
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that must mean I'm the
one who's going to get spanked
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and all of a sudden I
didn't want anyone to find out
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because I thought I
would be in trouble.
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Oh, bless her, oh, Lord...
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For a child, you
know, it's so sad
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that anything like this happens
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and we know it's
happening with great frequency
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in our own society
and around the world.
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But how did this affect...
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If you were a child
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that doesn't know
how to process this,
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how did this
affect your relationship
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with the Lord?
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I mean, how did it, did it
damage your picture of God?
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Were you wondering, "Oh, God,
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why aren't you
saving me from this?"
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Severely.
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And this is what I find
in counseling with people
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who have been abused.
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Abuse strikes at the very heart
of our picture of who God is.
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That's why it's so damaging,
that's why it's so important
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that we process and
find biblical healing
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because if I can't
believe that God is love
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which is what abuse tells me.
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If God were loving, He
would have stopped this.
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If God were loving,
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He wouldn't have
allowed this to happen.
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So when I can't
believe that God is love,
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I can't love Him back.
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Only by love is love awakened.
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If I can't see
God as a God of love,
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then I'm going to
try to find something
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or someone who will
replace what God is not for me.
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All right, so this
happened as a young child.
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At what point were you
able to tell your parents
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what was going on?
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Well, he died when I
was 10 and the trauma for me
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had been so severe
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that I forgot
what had happened even.
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I moved on with my life,
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but I had some triggering
events with a neighbor
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who started trying to assault me
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when I was 15.
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And at that point
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I was still
trying to follow God,
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I wanted to be a good Christian,
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I wanted to follow
God with all of my heart.
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But this neighbor grabbed me
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and tried to drag me
into his house, kissed me
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and said, "I want
to show you something,"
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and I had to hang
on to his doorframe
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and fight him off.
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I did escape but
then when I escaped
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I was so angry as I
was walking back home,
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and I remember praying,
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"God, I don't know
what kind of God you are,
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but I know I'm through
with the stupid trust God thing,
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because you never
take care of me at all,
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I have to take care of myself."
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Wow!
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And I mean, I remember it
like yesterday, crystal clear,
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I know exactly what
I said in that prayer.
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I told Him, "I'm not
going to do anything stupid.
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I'm not gonna go out and drink
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and do drugs
and destroy my life.
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I'm gonna keep going to church
but I'm through trusting You,
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and I'm gonna
take care of myself."
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You see, now, I won't go into it
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but I had a point in my life
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where I had been
taught erroneously
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to have faith in
faith and not faith in God,
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if you will, you
know what I'm saying?
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If only you can just
muster up enough faith,
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God had to do what
you had faith to believe.
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And when it didn't turn out
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as, as I had anticipated
with a healing for my mother,
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and this was from a
mental type situation.
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I was so angry at God
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because I had
been taught wrongly.
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I was so angry that I
shook my fist in his face
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and said, "You
don't keep your word,
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I'm out of here."
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So I actually walked away
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from the church
for a couple of years,
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away from God for
a couple of years.
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And praise the
Lord, He chased me down
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but, but you've
got this anger that is,
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I mean just a deep wound.
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You've been hurt your feeling.
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I mean, there's all
these emotions of guilt,
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abandonment, rejection
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that everything starts kind
of pulling in together here,
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and you decided probably
because of the environment
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in which you were brought up
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that you were going to keep
on living a decent lifestyle.
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Right.
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But you just didn't
really trust the Lord,
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and if you can't trust God
that is the relationship...
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I mean, that's the
foundation for faith is trust.
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That's right.
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I thought that I could go on
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being a good Christian
girl without trusting God.
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Just throw out the
whole trust God thing
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because clearly He
doesn't take care of me,
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so I would still do
all the right things
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but I didn't realize
you have to worship God,
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if you do not worship God,
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you will worship
some replacement for Him.
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I thought I was angry at God,
but praise God He knew better.
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He knew I was angry at
the false picture of Him
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that I had.
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And so He had to restore in
me a true picture of who He was.
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How did He do this though?
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I mean, how when you are so...
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I mean, at what point
did you tell your parents?
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Was that a beginning?
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Or how did this horrible scab
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that's over
your wound right now,
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how did this thing get released?
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And it was festering,
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how did this
wound that get healed?
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You know, God is so good.
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He knew I wasn't ready
to talk to anyone about it.
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So I didn't tell anyone.
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But after the
attack by the neighbor,
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I began having
severe panic attacks.
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I already was
dealing with nightmares,
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with depression.
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I would wake up from
a terrible nightmare.
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It was always similar,
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you know, kinds of things
where I couldn't get away.
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And I would be
like, I'm trying to run,
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I'm trying to scream but
nothing would ever happen,
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similar to the circumstances of
how I had actually been abused.
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I could never tell
anybody, I could never get away.
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Yes.
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And praise God,
those nightmares went away
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after I dealt with everything.
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But at the time, it
was an oppressive life.
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I had no idea that God
actually delivered people
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from things like
this because I just...
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It had never occurred to me.
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And which is
strange you would think,
00:09:18.59\00:09:20.19
I was reading the
Bible every day as a child
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and at least at that point
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when I was
abused by the neighbor.
00:09:25.39\00:09:26.73
But when I began trusting myself
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instead of God, I
was basically saying
00:09:28.90\00:09:30.90
because God is not
who He is supposed to be,
00:09:30.93\00:09:34.27
I will be that.
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And you see that's always
the cycle at the heart of sin,
00:09:35.67\00:09:38.91
unbelief about
the character of God
00:09:38.94\00:09:40.84
about who He
says He is in His word
00:09:40.88\00:09:42.61
will inevitably lead
to pride of some kind,
00:09:42.64\00:09:45.31
me trying to be what
I think God ought to be.
00:09:45.35\00:09:47.88
That was the cycle with Lucifer.
00:09:47.92\00:09:49.82
It's a cycle with
every sin from there on.
00:09:49.85\00:09:52.45
If I cannot believe that God is
who He says He is in His word,
00:09:52.49\00:09:55.82
I will believe that
He is who I feel He is
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or who my circumstances
seemed to say He is
00:09:58.39\00:10:00.70
and I will respond accordingly.
00:10:00.73\00:10:02.16
I cannot worship Him
00:10:02.20\00:10:03.90
because He
doesn't seem like the one
00:10:03.93\00:10:06.03
who's worthy of worship.
00:10:06.07\00:10:07.40
And instead I
will worship someone
00:10:07.44\00:10:09.14
or something else,
00:10:09.17\00:10:10.51
and whatever that thing
is that I choose to worship
00:10:10.54\00:10:13.21
instead of God, it's
always self disguised.
00:10:13.24\00:10:15.54
So for me, it
wasn't even disguised,
00:10:15.58\00:10:17.21
I worship myself.
00:10:17.25\00:10:18.61
I believed that I
could take care of myself.
00:10:18.65\00:10:21.52
So I began being very vigilant.
00:10:21.55\00:10:23.49
Everywhere I went,
and everything I did,
00:10:23.52\00:10:25.52
I would make sure
nobody could attack me.
00:10:25.55\00:10:28.92
I slept wearing
jeans every night.
00:10:28.96\00:10:31.56
I was so terrified,
00:10:31.59\00:10:33.40
somebody would come
through my window at night
00:10:33.43\00:10:35.13
and kidnap me and rape me.
00:10:35.16\00:10:37.43
I lived in continual fear,
00:10:37.47\00:10:40.30
and I began having panic attacks
00:10:40.34\00:10:42.64
anytime a man
would walk behind me.
00:10:42.67\00:10:45.17
It was becoming
more and more oppressive,
00:10:45.21\00:10:47.81
but at the same time I
didn't dare tell anybody
00:10:47.84\00:10:50.38
because the more
dramatic my symptoms were,
00:10:50.41\00:10:54.22
the more I was
afraid if people found out
00:10:54.25\00:10:55.98
they would think I was
crazy and maybe I was crazy.
00:10:56.02\00:10:59.19
So it's interesting to me,
and maybe because this happened
00:10:59.22\00:11:02.72
when you were so very young.
00:11:02.76\00:11:04.39
Your parents, you were
still developing a personality,
00:11:04.43\00:11:06.80
so they really didn't
see this huge change in you.
00:11:06.83\00:11:10.13
No, and I was very
good at covering it up.
00:11:10.17\00:11:12.10
I had friends at
school, I had lots of fun.
00:11:12.13\00:11:14.90
I studied hard, got
A's, read my Bible every day,
00:11:14.94\00:11:19.77
I seemed like I
had things together.
00:11:19.81\00:11:21.81
No one knew that deep
inside I was struggling.
00:11:21.84\00:11:25.55
My younger
sister was the only one
00:11:25.58\00:11:27.85
who had some idea
00:11:27.88\00:11:29.22
because her bedroom
was right above mine
00:11:29.25\00:11:31.02
and at night sometimes
she could hear me crying
00:11:31.05\00:11:33.36
my heart out as I
was lying there in bed.
00:11:33.39\00:11:37.16
You know, this is something
00:11:37.19\00:11:38.53
that when you
are in an abusive...
00:11:38.56\00:11:43.00
If you've been in an
abusive cycle, it is, boy,
00:11:43.03\00:11:46.43
I'm resonating
with what you're saying
00:11:46.47\00:11:48.67
because it is so easy
00:11:48.70\00:11:50.64
and I've been
there myself in that,
00:11:50.67\00:11:53.01
okay, I've got to
take care of myself.
00:11:53.04\00:11:55.91
You become fiercely independent
rather than depending on God,
00:11:55.94\00:12:00.48
you become fiercely
independent and this protective,
00:12:00.52\00:12:03.92
you know, cocoon that you're
trying to put around yourself.
00:12:03.95\00:12:07.12
But people like that
often put forth that false face,
00:12:07.16\00:12:13.50
I mean, you know, we're
good at verbal camouflage,
00:12:13.53\00:12:15.96
you're good at
making everyone around
00:12:16.00\00:12:17.93
you think everything
is perfect when it isn't,
00:12:17.97\00:12:20.84
and so you even were
able to fool your parents.
00:12:20.87\00:12:23.54
So at what age,
what was it for you,
00:12:23.57\00:12:28.08
I mean, what was...
00:12:28.11\00:12:30.68
What knocked the scab off?
00:12:30.71\00:12:33.45
You know, I
went away to a school
00:12:33.48\00:12:36.52
called Ouachita Hills Academy.
00:12:36.55\00:12:38.49
There was a
small Christian school
00:12:38.52\00:12:40.02
where I lived.
00:12:40.06\00:12:41.39
It was about
three and half hours
00:12:41.42\00:12:42.76
from my parents.
00:12:42.79\00:12:44.13
And when I came there to go
to school as I was registering,
00:12:44.16\00:12:48.00
the principal asked me
"When was the last time
00:12:48.03\00:12:49.70
you read the book,
the Desire of Ages?"
00:12:49.73\00:12:52.43
And I said, "Well, I don't think
00:12:52.47\00:12:53.80
I've ever read
the Desire of Ages."
00:12:53.84\00:12:57.21
And that was my assignment.
00:12:57.24\00:12:59.77
I started life and
teachings of Christ class.
00:12:59.81\00:13:03.21
And as I started
reading that book,
00:13:03.24\00:13:05.15
I remember the
very first chapter
00:13:05.18\00:13:07.65
I read was called
"Emmanuel, God with us".
00:13:07.68\00:13:11.15
And in that
chapter, I read about a Jesus
00:13:11.19\00:13:13.05
I had never known.
00:13:13.09\00:13:15.62
And as I finished
reading that first chapter,
00:13:15.66\00:13:17.96
I remember I came to the end
00:13:17.99\00:13:20.43
where it talked
about throughout eternity
00:13:20.46\00:13:22.93
we will praise God for
His unspeakable gift to us,
00:13:22.96\00:13:25.63
Emmanuel, God with us.
00:13:25.67\00:13:27.14
Amen. And the
tears came to my eyes.
00:13:27.17\00:13:30.27
And I thought I've
never known a God like this.
00:13:30.31\00:13:34.61
If that's
actually what He's like,
00:13:34.64\00:13:37.35
I might be able to
trust Him with my life.
00:13:37.38\00:13:39.51
Wow!
00:13:39.55\00:13:40.88
That was the beginning
of a turning point for me.
00:13:40.92\00:13:44.95
All right, so the
book, the Desire of Ages
00:13:44.99\00:13:46.82
and that was
authored by Ellen G. White.
00:13:46.86\00:13:49.66
Yes.
00:13:49.69\00:13:51.03
And I've heard so many
people who have said that
00:13:51.06\00:13:53.56
that book really brought
them to a point of decision.
00:13:53.60\00:13:58.33
It's the story of Jesus' life.
00:13:58.37\00:14:00.20
It's like a
harmony of the four gospels
00:14:00.24\00:14:02.14
put together in a story form.
00:14:02.17\00:14:03.51
And the great thing about it
is that it's based on Scripture
00:14:03.54\00:14:06.21
but it also
gives a lot of context
00:14:06.24\00:14:08.04
that you wouldn't know
just reading the Bible,
00:14:08.08\00:14:10.51
things about the Jewish culture,
00:14:10.55\00:14:12.05
what Jesus was dealing with.
00:14:12.08\00:14:14.25
So as I read that book
throughout that year in my life
00:14:14.28\00:14:18.12
and teachings of Christ class,
00:14:18.15\00:14:20.46
I came to
understand what Jesus was like.
00:14:20.49\00:14:22.36
And over the next few months,
00:14:22.39\00:14:23.76
after that I decided I
could trust Him with my life.
00:14:23.79\00:14:27.46
And I began surrendering to Him.
00:14:27.50\00:14:28.86
However, you know, the
Lord is so gracious with us,
00:14:28.90\00:14:31.37
it never occurred to me
still that God could deal
00:14:31.40\00:14:34.90
with my severe
anxiety and depression.
00:14:34.94\00:14:39.04
But obviously He did.
00:14:39.07\00:14:40.84
He did, He did,
but it took time.
00:14:40.88\00:14:43.48
I still hadn't even become
emotionally healthy enough
00:14:43.51\00:14:46.61
to remember what had
happened to me as a child.
00:14:46.65\00:14:48.88
And God is so good.
00:14:48.92\00:14:50.25
Sometimes people worry,
"Well, what if I was abused?
00:14:50.29\00:14:52.42
I can't remember for sure.
00:14:52.45\00:14:53.92
Or do I need to remember...
00:14:53.96\00:14:55.42
should I rake through my mind
00:14:55.46\00:14:57.13
and see if the
reason why I'm anxious is
00:14:57.16\00:14:58.93
because I was abused
somewhere along the way?"
00:14:58.96\00:15:01.30
I would say, you know,
00:15:01.33\00:15:02.66
you can't blame
your sin problems
00:15:02.70\00:15:05.13
on someone
else's sins against you.
00:15:05.17\00:15:07.34
There may be
trigger sins against us
00:15:07.37\00:15:09.47
that caused our
sins of response.
00:15:09.50\00:15:12.01
And if so, the Lord
will help us remember them
00:15:12.04\00:15:14.14
when we're ready
to remember them.
00:15:14.18\00:15:15.61
At what point did you remember?
00:15:15.64\00:15:17.38
It was right after I turned 18.
00:15:17.41\00:15:19.98
I...
00:15:20.02\00:15:22.08
It dawned on me as I realized
that he had abused someone else
00:15:22.12\00:15:26.55
in my family,
00:15:26.59\00:15:27.99
and I was asked,
"Has he ever abused you?"
00:15:28.02\00:15:30.46
And I said, "I
can't remember anything."
00:15:30.49\00:15:32.23
But then one night
as I was lying in bed
00:15:32.26\00:15:34.10
trying to go to sleep,
00:15:34.13\00:15:35.46
I thought, "Did
anything ever happen to me?"
00:15:35.50\00:15:38.10
And all of a sudden, everything
started coming back to me.
00:15:38.13\00:15:40.34
You see, I had become
emotionally healthy enough
00:15:40.37\00:15:42.60
at that point.
00:15:42.64\00:15:43.97
That you could take
it. That I could take it.
00:15:44.01\00:15:46.34
And I think, the Lord
sometimes put sort of,
00:15:46.37\00:15:48.64
it's like a
pressure cooker valve.
00:15:48.68\00:15:50.35
If there's a release when
it's too much for a person
00:15:50.38\00:15:53.01
to process emotionally,
the pressure valve blows.
00:15:53.05\00:15:56.55
In order to
preserve their sanity,
00:15:56.58\00:15:59.02
the Lord allows them
not to remember that.
00:15:59.05\00:16:01.56
But we still need to come back.
00:16:01.59\00:16:03.22
We still need to come back
and deal with things sometimes
00:16:03.26\00:16:06.13
in order to realize the
ways that we're sinning.
00:16:06.16\00:16:08.23
Sometimes we need
to understand the sins
00:16:08.26\00:16:10.03
that caused our
sins of response.
00:16:10.07\00:16:12.13
So I remembered
what had happened to me.
00:16:12.17\00:16:13.57
And over the next few
months I remembered much more
00:16:13.60\00:16:15.87
in each different
event all the different times
00:16:15.90\00:16:18.34
that I was abused, in
different ways I was abused.
00:16:18.37\00:16:21.31
And as I remembered
all of those things,
00:16:21.34\00:16:24.01
an anger toward
God came up again,
00:16:24.05\00:16:27.48
toward who I thought God was,
but then I realized "No, no.
00:16:27.52\00:16:32.32
This is not who He was.
00:16:32.35\00:16:34.06
Whatever He's gonna
get me through this,
00:16:34.09\00:16:35.79
it's gonna be
this God that I know.
00:16:35.82\00:16:37.66
This God that I
have met through reading,
00:16:37.69\00:16:40.20
through studying the Bible,
through prayer, He is love."
00:16:40.23\00:16:44.77
And knowing that,
00:16:44.80\00:16:46.94
that central fact turned
everything around for me.
00:16:46.97\00:16:50.44
Amen.
00:16:50.47\00:16:51.81
And it allowed you,
you know, as you said,
00:16:51.84\00:16:53.58
anytime you go through abuse,
it is something that will...
00:16:53.61\00:16:58.51
Especially when you're
young and going through abuse,
00:16:58.55\00:17:01.75
it changes how you see God.
00:17:01.78\00:17:04.79
It changes your image of God.
00:17:04.82\00:17:06.69
And so often, I mean, the most
difficult question in the world
00:17:06.72\00:17:10.23
to be asked by
anyone is when someone says,
00:17:10.26\00:17:15.00
"Why did God allow this?" Right.
00:17:15.03\00:17:17.53
It's a
difficult thing to explain
00:17:17.57\00:17:19.73
but sin is playing out
its course, if you will.
00:17:19.77\00:17:23.07
That's right. And for him too.
00:17:23.10\00:17:26.78
And often God does intervene
00:17:26.81\00:17:28.18
and He protects
us from many things.
00:17:28.21\00:17:29.81
But if He is not intervening,
00:17:29.84\00:17:33.35
I mean, it won't be
until the sin problem is done
00:17:33.38\00:17:36.18
away with completely
that this will be gone.
00:17:36.22\00:17:38.49
I don't know how
else to say that,
00:17:38.52\00:17:40.09
but it doesn't mean
00:17:40.12\00:17:41.46
that God doesn't
love you and that...
00:17:41.49\00:17:44.06
Do you know
Christian Berdahl? Yes, I know.
00:17:44.09\00:17:46.49
Christian Berdahl said
that he was so angry at God
00:17:46.53\00:17:51.03
because he was
sexually abused as a child
00:17:51.07\00:17:53.10
and he was shaking
his fist at the Lord.
00:17:53.13\00:17:54.94
And finally, one day,
00:17:54.97\00:17:57.44
he said that the
Lord spoke to him,
00:17:57.47\00:18:00.04
just the still small
voice, not an audible voice.
00:18:00.08\00:18:04.05
But he said, you know,
there are rules of engagement,
00:18:04.08\00:18:07.02
and your mother didn't
follow the rules of engagement.
00:18:07.05\00:18:09.18
His mother kept
him in a situation
00:18:09.22\00:18:11.62
where he is being abused
by his mother's boyfriends
00:18:11.65\00:18:15.19
if I remember correctly.
00:18:15.22\00:18:16.56
So, it was something that if,
00:18:16.59\00:18:19.03
I guess God was trying
to get in touch with her,
00:18:19.06\00:18:21.30
certainly the
person who abused you
00:18:21.33\00:18:23.83
being a relative is a
very difficult situation.
00:18:23.87\00:18:27.67
But he certainly
wasn't following God's rules
00:18:27.70\00:18:29.87
and bad things do
happen to good people.
00:18:29.90\00:18:32.84
That's right. I
had to understand.
00:18:32.87\00:18:35.21
And I came to an understanding
00:18:35.24\00:18:36.58
that was very liberating for me.
00:18:36.61\00:18:37.95
I had to
understand the difference
00:18:37.98\00:18:39.31
between the purpose of
God and the will of God.
00:18:39.35\00:18:43.08
God's will is often broken. Yes.
00:18:43.12\00:18:46.09
But His purpose
can never be stopped.
00:18:46.12\00:18:47.82
That's good.
00:18:47.86\00:18:49.19
The great purpose of
God in the whole battle
00:18:49.22\00:18:52.69
between Him and
Satan is to reveal His love
00:18:52.73\00:18:56.00
to the universe,
00:18:56.03\00:18:57.37
to show the
universe love is the best way
00:18:57.40\00:18:59.03
to run the universe.
00:18:59.07\00:19:00.40
Amen.
00:19:00.44\00:19:01.77
If He could have
done that by making sure
00:19:01.80\00:19:04.24
that everybody in the
universe kept His law,
00:19:04.27\00:19:06.71
just nobody's
allowed to break it,
00:19:06.74\00:19:09.21
they would have never been loved
00:19:09.24\00:19:10.88
because love
has to be voluntary.
00:19:10.91\00:19:13.28
And God knew if He's gonna
rule in universe for eternity,
00:19:13.31\00:19:17.35
He has to let there be freedom.
00:19:17.39\00:19:19.89
Someday, somewhere
throughout all of that eternity
00:19:19.92\00:19:22.76
if He lets all
these beings choose
00:19:22.79\00:19:24.33
whether to love
Him voluntarily or not,
00:19:24.36\00:19:26.03
somebody's gonna choose not to.
00:19:26.06\00:19:27.96
And so he had a plan.
00:19:28.00\00:19:29.50
And when Lucifer
started moving down that path,
00:19:29.53\00:19:32.43
God pled with
him, "Don't do this."
00:19:32.47\00:19:34.47
His spirit
always pleads with us.
00:19:34.50\00:19:36.34
Yes. "Don't do this."
00:19:36.37\00:19:37.77
But Lucifer's
first sin was unbelief,
00:19:37.81\00:19:39.84
doubt about the
character of God.
00:19:39.87\00:19:41.74
"Maybe, He's not really loving.
00:19:41.78\00:19:43.78
What if He's trying
to keep back good gifts?
00:19:43.81\00:19:46.95
I'd like to have power."
00:19:46.98\00:19:48.32
And the moment
that unbelief creeps in
00:19:48.35\00:19:50.32
that we believe
God maybe isn't loving,
00:19:50.35\00:19:52.65
then pride comes
in at the same time.
00:19:52.69\00:19:54.86
It's like a
balance. You can't stop it.
00:19:54.89\00:19:56.76
If unbelief creeps in,
pride will creep in too.
00:19:56.79\00:20:00.36
And Lucifer was immediately
in judgment over God.
00:20:00.40\00:20:03.10
"If I were God, if I
were ruling the universe,
00:20:03.13\00:20:05.37
I could do it better than this."
00:20:05.40\00:20:07.37
So Lucifer went
against the will of God
00:20:07.40\00:20:10.34
but he could not
stop the purpose of God
00:20:10.37\00:20:11.97
because God will
reveal to the whole universe,
00:20:12.01\00:20:14.91
love is the best way
to run this universe.
00:20:14.94\00:20:16.64
Amen.
00:20:16.68\00:20:18.01
So Lucifer's decision to
go against the will of God
00:20:18.05\00:20:21.28
has actually accomplished
more of the purpose of God.
00:20:21.32\00:20:23.85
You cannot stop
God from revealing
00:20:23.89\00:20:25.62
that love is the best way.
00:20:25.65\00:20:27.22
And so now the sin problem,
00:20:27.26\00:20:29.42
even though God
said to Lucifer, to Eve,
00:20:29.46\00:20:31.99
to every person since then,
00:20:32.03\00:20:33.36
"Don't do it, don't
do it, don't do it."
00:20:33.40\00:20:34.73
And I know He did
that to my relative too.
00:20:34.76\00:20:36.77
Still when we do
it, when we go ahead
00:20:36.80\00:20:40.04
and go against His
will, God says, "All right.
00:20:40.07\00:20:42.27
Now, not just in
spite of this sin,
00:20:42.30\00:20:44.11
this breaking of my law
but because of this sin,
00:20:44.14\00:20:47.24
the universe is gonna understand
00:20:47.28\00:20:48.78
that the law of love
is the best way to rule."
00:20:48.81\00:20:50.75
Absolutely.
00:20:50.78\00:20:52.11
And once I understood that,
once that really dawned on me
00:20:52.15\00:20:55.42
that God didn't want
this to happen to me.
00:20:55.45\00:20:58.02
He didn't mean
it to happen to me.
00:20:58.05\00:20:59.72
He didn't plan it.
He tried to stop it.
00:20:59.75\00:21:01.69
His spirit appealed
to my relative saying,
00:21:01.72\00:21:03.83
"Don't do this.
00:21:03.86\00:21:05.19
Don't do this."
00:21:05.23\00:21:06.56
He made his choices
and God said, "All right.
00:21:06.59\00:21:08.56
Now not just in spite
of this sin but actually
00:21:08.60\00:21:10.83
because of this sin,
00:21:10.87\00:21:12.20
if Nicole will surrender to me
in faith instead of unbelief,"
00:21:12.23\00:21:16.07
if my response will be faith,
00:21:16.10\00:21:19.07
then God will use this
thing that wasn't His will
00:21:19.11\00:21:22.34
to accomplish
His greater purpose.
00:21:22.38\00:21:24.01
I'm glad.
00:21:24.05\00:21:25.38
I'm grateful for
what happened to me.
00:21:25.41\00:21:27.02
I wouldn't ever
wanna go through it again.
00:21:27.05\00:21:29.25
I wouldn't wanna
anyone else to go through it.
00:21:29.28\00:21:30.72
But I'm glad it happened
to me because it has helped me
00:21:30.75\00:21:33.56
become a deeper and
richer and broader person.
00:21:33.59\00:21:36.66
I understand why suffering
is allowed in this world.
00:21:36.69\00:21:40.03
And I'm able to protect
my children much more wisely,
00:21:40.06\00:21:42.96
but even so even if something
were to happen to my children,
00:21:43.00\00:21:46.13
I know how to
help them understand
00:21:46.17\00:21:47.50
how the healing
power of God's Word
00:21:47.54\00:21:49.07
will set them free.
00:21:49.10\00:21:50.44
And I've been able to share
that with hundreds of people.
00:21:50.47\00:21:52.87
As I share with them,
this is how God has healed me,
00:21:52.91\00:21:56.58
it's almost
like, I used to be lost
00:21:56.61\00:21:58.88
in this maze of
darkness and evil.
00:21:58.91\00:22:02.18
And God came to me there
00:22:02.22\00:22:03.55
where I was by
revealing Himself,
00:22:03.59\00:22:06.29
led me out of that maze,
and then He sends me back
00:22:06.32\00:22:08.92
and says, "Get this one."
00:22:08.96\00:22:10.29
You know, when you think
about Romans 8:28 that says,
00:22:10.33\00:22:13.70
"All things work
together for good for those
00:22:13.73\00:22:15.53
who love the Lord and are called
00:22:15.56\00:22:17.23
according to His purpose."
00:22:17.27\00:22:18.93
And when something...
00:22:18.97\00:22:20.34
When you're going through abuse,
00:22:20.37\00:22:21.70
it's so difficult to say,
00:22:21.74\00:22:23.17
"How are you going to
work this for my good?"
00:22:23.20\00:22:25.67
Yes.
00:22:25.71\00:22:27.04
But Romans 8:29 that should have
00:22:27.08\00:22:28.94
never been separated,
00:22:28.98\00:22:30.31
it should have
been a single sentence.
00:22:30.35\00:22:31.78
He says, "For
those God foreknew,
00:22:31.81\00:22:34.88
He predestined to be conformed
to the image of Jesus."
00:22:34.92\00:22:38.82
So what are you saying
is, no matter what happens
00:22:38.85\00:22:41.56
in your life, no
matter how bad it is,
00:22:41.59\00:22:44.83
trust me, God
can work that thing
00:22:44.86\00:22:48.60
to your good by making
you a little more Christ-like.
00:22:48.63\00:22:52.17
He will teach you
how to be more loving.
00:22:52.20\00:22:54.90
He will teach you how
to be more understanding,
00:22:54.94\00:22:57.44
and that's what's happened here.
00:22:57.47\00:22:59.04
You know, when you said
you were glad for the abuse,
00:22:59.07\00:23:00.94
I'm thinking "Oops!
00:23:00.98\00:23:02.34
Wow! That's...
00:23:02.38\00:23:03.71
That is radical statement to say
00:23:03.75\00:23:05.81
you are grateful for the abuse."
00:23:05.85\00:23:07.18
It was a long
journey to come at that.
00:23:07.22\00:23:08.55
But, and, you know, I
want to put qualifiers on it.
00:23:08.58\00:23:10.72
You're glad for the way
God responded to your abuse,
00:23:10.75\00:23:14.26
I'm wanting to qualify that.
00:23:14.29\00:23:15.62
But I say what you're saying
because we can only comfort,
00:23:15.66\00:23:19.23
you know, Paul wrote
in the 1 Corinthians,
00:23:19.26\00:23:22.40
"He's the God of all comfort."
00:23:22.43\00:23:24.93
And we comfort
others with the same comfort
00:23:24.97\00:23:27.97
we've received from Him.
00:23:28.00\00:23:29.44
So God is using
you in a mighty way.
00:23:29.47\00:23:31.67
You went through a
healing process yourself.
00:23:31.71\00:23:36.98
You became educated so
that you can then turn around
00:23:37.01\00:23:41.88
and use biblical counseling,
not just what we would
00:23:41.92\00:23:45.25
call Christian counseling
00:23:45.29\00:23:46.62
because Christian counseling
sometimes can throw God out.
00:23:46.65\00:23:49.99
You can take Him or
leave Him in other words.
00:23:50.03\00:23:52.09
But biblical counseling
is what you are focused on.
00:23:52.13\00:23:56.43
Yes.
00:23:56.46\00:23:57.80
Biblical
counseling is so different
00:23:57.83\00:23:59.63
than traditional counseling,
00:23:59.67\00:24:02.17
and that's
what's drawn me to it.
00:24:02.20\00:24:03.77
You know, the Lord
just completely led me
00:24:03.81\00:24:06.14
in so many ways to understand.
00:24:06.17\00:24:08.08
You see, Christian counseling,
00:24:08.11\00:24:09.88
there's a wide
spectrum of things
00:24:09.91\00:24:11.41
that are called
Christian counseling,
00:24:11.45\00:24:13.18
but often they're very
similar to secular counseling.
00:24:13.21\00:24:16.38
Secular counseling says
the answers to life's problems
00:24:16.42\00:24:20.16
come from secular sources
00:24:20.19\00:24:23.49
and much of Christian counseling
00:24:23.53\00:24:24.96
does the same thing.
00:24:24.99\00:24:26.33
It has a humanistic
presupposition that says,
00:24:26.36\00:24:28.00
"I just need to sit here
and listen to you and say,
00:24:28.03\00:24:29.53
"How did that make you feel?
00:24:29.56\00:24:30.90
Well, that's really sad.
00:24:30.93\00:24:32.27
What answer do you think
00:24:32.30\00:24:33.64
you can find
within yourself to this?"
00:24:33.67\00:24:35.10
It's a very
dangerous philosophy to think
00:24:35.14\00:24:37.97
that I have the
answers within myself.
00:24:38.01\00:24:39.54
Absolutely.
00:24:39.57\00:24:40.91
Biblical
counseling is founded on
00:24:40.94\00:24:42.28
an entirely
different presupposition.
00:24:42.31\00:24:44.25
I cannot find the answers
within myself, I'm a sinner.
00:24:44.28\00:24:47.48
And I'm deeply affected
by other sins against me.
00:24:47.52\00:24:50.19
The answers come
from the Word of God.
00:24:50.22\00:24:51.79
Amen.
00:24:51.82\00:24:53.15
And as the Word of
God works deep within us,
00:24:53.19\00:24:55.92
He transforms us into His
image so that we learn to love,
00:24:55.96\00:24:59.96
not just in spite
of the sins against us
00:25:00.00\00:25:01.90
but actually because of them,
00:25:01.93\00:25:03.77
we understand the
battle between good and evil
00:25:03.80\00:25:06.00
like we never could have
00:25:06.03\00:25:07.47
if we hadn't been
caught in the midst of it.
00:25:07.50\00:25:09.90
And God's plan is always
that He will take bad things.
00:25:09.94\00:25:14.04
God never ordained
for me to be abused,
00:25:14.08\00:25:16.44
never ordained for
anyone to be abused,
00:25:16.48\00:25:18.31
never ordained for
those poor children
00:25:18.35\00:25:19.95
to be starving in Africa.
00:25:19.98\00:25:21.68
But He will use even bad
things to draw us close to Him,
00:25:21.72\00:25:26.12
to teach us that
love is the best way
00:25:26.15\00:25:27.92
to run the universe.
00:25:27.96\00:25:29.29
And that He cares about
each one of us personally.
00:25:29.32\00:25:32.29
Without the gospel,
00:25:32.33\00:25:34.66
I don't think there
would be any true forgiveness.
00:25:34.70\00:25:36.63
I don't think that something
that's really in our hearts.
00:25:36.67\00:25:38.37
No forgiveness, no healing. Yes.
00:25:38.40\00:25:40.94
It was when I came to understand
00:25:40.97\00:25:42.54
the power of the gospel
00:25:42.57\00:25:44.37
that I started really
being able to break free.
00:25:44.41\00:25:47.84
As I had a wonderful
experience in which the Lord
00:25:47.88\00:25:52.21
used the power
of the Word of God
00:25:52.25\00:25:54.18
to break and incredibly
00:25:54.22\00:25:57.09
to break the chains of my abuse,
00:25:57.12\00:26:00.19
I began not being,
not living in anxiety.
00:26:00.22\00:26:03.12
I began being able to
walk free where before
00:26:03.16\00:26:05.36
I wouldn't even walk
in a grocery store aisle,
00:26:05.39\00:26:07.73
a grocery store aisle...
00:26:07.76\00:26:09.56
I should say that
over again. That's fine.
00:26:09.60\00:26:11.90
I wouldn't even walk in a
grocery store aisle before
00:26:11.93\00:26:14.60
if there were a man in it
00:26:14.64\00:26:15.97
because I would
have a panic attack.
00:26:16.00\00:26:17.34
Yes.
00:26:17.37\00:26:18.71
But now I began
singing Scripture songs.
00:26:18.74\00:26:20.81
I could walk anywhere. I
could walk down the sidewalk.
00:26:20.84\00:26:23.65
I could have a
man walk behind me.
00:26:23.68\00:26:25.58
And it was this time of
pure communion with God.
00:26:25.61\00:26:28.95
As I would have to
cry out to Him every time,
00:26:28.98\00:26:31.39
I began suffering from
the temptation to unbelief
00:26:31.42\00:26:34.82
and pride that
anxiety and depression
00:26:34.86\00:26:37.16
He would set me free.
00:26:37.19\00:26:38.53
Yes, amen.
00:26:38.56\00:26:39.89
This is, it is
such an encouragement
00:26:39.93\00:26:43.77
to hear your story.
00:26:43.80\00:26:45.37
And the fact that, you know,
00:26:45.40\00:26:46.74
often when I'm
talking with someone,
00:26:46.77\00:26:48.30
and you probably
find this in counseling
00:26:48.34\00:26:49.94
and know we have
such a short time.
00:26:49.97\00:26:51.64
But if someone
cannot tell their story
00:26:51.67\00:26:54.14
without feeling a lot of pain,
00:26:54.18\00:26:56.21
I don't feel that
they've really been healed.
00:26:56.24\00:26:58.28
I can tell you've been healed.
00:26:58.31\00:27:00.15
This is something that
God has dealt with for you
00:27:00.18\00:27:03.45
and He's changed
your life because of it.
00:27:03.49\00:27:06.45
You know, we're
out of time today.
00:27:06.49\00:27:08.19
But, Nicole, we
want you to come back
00:27:08.22\00:27:10.39
and talk a little more
specifically on this topic
00:27:10.43\00:27:14.60
of sexual abuse and healing.
00:27:14.63\00:27:16.67
And so, will you come
back and join us, right?
00:27:16.70\00:27:19.43
All right. All right.
00:27:19.47\00:27:20.80
Well, thank you so
much for being here today.
00:27:20.84\00:27:22.90
And I want you to
be sure and tune in
00:27:22.94\00:27:26.37
for our next program
00:27:26.41\00:27:27.74
because we will
bring Nicole back,
00:27:27.78\00:27:29.38
and she's going to have
much more to share with us.
00:27:29.41\00:27:32.41
Right now, our prayer for you
is that the grace of our Lord
00:27:32.45\00:27:35.68
and Savior Jesus
Christ, the love of the Father
00:27:35.72\00:27:38.25
and the
fellowship of the Holy Spirit
00:27:38.29\00:27:40.36
will be with you
today and always.
00:27:40.39\00:27:43.63
He is a trustworthy God.
00:27:43.66\00:27:45.46