You know, someone once said that
our ideas of education take too
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narrow a view and too low
a range. There is need of a
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broader scope, a higher aim.
Please join us today as we talk
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about the principles
of Christian education
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on Issues and Answers.
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Music being played.
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Hi, I'm Shelley Quinn and we are
so glad that you could join us
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and if you have children,
grandchildren or are thinking
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about having children, you want
to watch this program. We are
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going to be talking today about
the principles of Christian
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education. Returning to visit
with us is Dr. Randy Siebold
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who is the vice-president of
education at the Weimar Center
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for Health and Education.
I almost got that out.
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Randy we're so glad
that you could come back.
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Glad to be here,
thank you very much.
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You know, I'd like to just take
a moment and just talk about you
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personally because we have
mentioned that you got your
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doctoral degree and you did
those doctoral studies in the
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public school system. How many
children do you and your wife
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have? Just five. Just five!
I was thinking you had four.
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So you actually know a lot
about education just from your
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personal
experiences with five children.
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Yes, we've been
blessed five times.
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Praise the Lord. Now you moved
out to California and part of
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the family is there with you,
you've got part in college and
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high school. You've got
them everywhere, haven't you?
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What's your youngest?
The youngest is seven, if you
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asked him, seven-and-a-half
and that's Freddie.
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What interested you or why did
you make the switch from public
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education to
Christian Education?
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Well probably not so much a
switch but what I had to do was
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switch in my brain when they
talked about it. When I pursued
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my doctoral at Indiana
University what I had a real
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passion to do was understand
education. I mean my children
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were growing up, I had this
deep need for understanding what
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education was all about and the
Lord led me into this program;
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I'm real confident of that. This
program greatly blessed me, but
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I'll tell you what, going
through this process of learning
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about public education, the
one thing I didn't want to do
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was get off center with what
was really good education. So I
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ended up getting a hold of a
book called Education, that just
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the simple title of the book,
Education, written by Ellen
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White. When I got a hold of that
book and read it through, this
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was before I ever got into my
doctoral work. In fact, it was
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one of the things that made
me really very interested in
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education and about how we could
do it better. I was absolutely
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fascinated by it. So what
I ended up doing was in my
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doctoral work while I would
research study, I would go back
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and reread this book, sections
of this book, to help keep me
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centered on what good education
was. Absolutely this book,
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Education, is by far the
best book that I've ever read on
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Christian education and arguably
education in general. Just
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phenomenal. I had
noticed you carry your
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book with you wherever you go
and that it is something that is
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well marked, underlined,
highlighted, you name it.
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It's abused and loved.
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It's abused and loved. You once
told me that if you were going
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to write a book on education
this is the way you would begin
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it and it is a quote
from E.G. White in this book.
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Well, think about this.
Here Ellen White, she's going to
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write this book on education
and the book was published in
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1903; so imaging writing a book
on education. How do you start
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it out? What is it that
you really want the reader to
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understand, to set the stage for
reading the rest of the book?
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So we're going to cut to a slide
here and take a look at this
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first sentence.
Here's how she starts it.
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Our ideas of education take
too narrow a view and too low a
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range. We're
too narrow, too low.
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That's our educational view.
She continues here. This is
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amazing. This first paragraph
is just packed with educational
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principles. There
is need of a broader
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scope, a higher aim. True
education means more than a
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perusal of a certain course
of study. It means more than a
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preparation for
the life that now is.
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So what she's done here is
she's given this context. It's
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not just this little box that
we think it is. Go back to that
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first sentence. Our ideas of
education take too narrow and
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too low range. Okay?
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So what are the principles that
she advocates. How does she see
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the goal of a
Christian education?
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Okay. If you can't read the
book Education at least read the
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first four chapters. That
chapter set is called First
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Principles. Okay, so you
read the first four chapters.
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Wonderful overview of education.
If you don't have time for that,
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at least read the first chapter,
okay. Because the whole chapter
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is good. If you don't have
time for that, at least read the
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first paragraph. So, let's
finish the last paragraph here
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and in just a few sentences,
she's going to give you some of
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the main things that I picked up
in my doctoral program. It was
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absolutely amazing. We'll cover
these points here. Take a look
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at this. There are three major
points that come out of this.
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It has to do... and this is
true education... with the whole
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being and with the whole period
of existence possible to man.
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So now we have whole being;
that's holistic education and
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she's now talking about life
long learning; the whole period
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of existence, not just for
school... It's the harmonious
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development of the physical,
the mental and the spiritual
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powers... Now again she's going
back to whole being but she's
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saying it's the harmonious
development of these things,
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not putting things into
components and separating them.
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All right comes the
last sentence here...
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It prepares the student
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for the joy of service in this
world and for the higher joy of
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wider service in the
world to come. p. 13.
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So then she's saying that
education should be holistic
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coving all aspects of the
personality and the mind, that
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it should be lifelong and then
service-oriented rather than
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self-oriented. And
I just think it's an
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absolutely stunning paragraph,
because what it does is it
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takes the common misbeliefs,
points them out and then hits
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three of the most critical
principles of what it means
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to have a biblical education,
of what God has told us
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what education needs to be
about. It's holistic, not just
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mind and not just memory,
but the whole mind and the body
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and the spirit, the whole
person. So, in fact, if you just
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do spiritual training, you're
not doing true education, right?
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So it has to be all three of
these: the mind, the body and
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the spirit. Now are
there biblical examples
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of this? There
are very good biblical
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examples if we take a look.
In this same book if you want
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a biblical understanding
of education, get the book
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Education. I don't want to keep
saying this over and over, but
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I'll probably say it more. I
don't want to be a broken record
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You're enamored with this
book I understand, but let me
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interrupt you for just a moment
so that I can tell our viewers
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that if this is already causing
an epiphany in your mind and
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the light bulbs are going on,
the way you can get a copy of
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the book simply
entitled Education by E.G. White
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is you can go to the
adventistbookcenter.com and
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order a copy through that. I
know 3ABN doesn't carry the book
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and Randy, you're not selling
the book; you're just selling
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the principles and holding
them up saying these are truly
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biblical principles that were
extrapolated and then written
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down into this book
in a concise, nice way.
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Well, when you find something
that works, you don't reinvent
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it. If you want to use this as a
detailed Bible study, as a Bible
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study guide for what good
education is, I think that would
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be a great way to
go, just very, very good.
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So then, let's go back to some
of the biblical examples. I can
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think of the
school of the prophets.
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Well what God started out with
was the model example, the model
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throughout all after
time. This was the model school,
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this was what school was
supposed to be like and what
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it is supposed to be like. We'll
take a look at a quote here in
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Chapter 2: This is in the
first paragraph of chapter two.
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Sometimes in circles we'll
hear the blueprint, this ideal
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education. Well this is what
she says on Education, p. 20.
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The garden of Eden was
the schoolroom, nature was the
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lesson book, the Creator himself
was the instructor and the
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parents of the human
family were the students.
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Any child that's watching right
now is going, Yes, nature gets
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to be my lesson book outside!
But that certainly, the Lord...
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This is an example, this a model
school that was given by God.
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Think about this. Adam and Eve
were created in this perfection
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and set in the perfect
environment to be more and more
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like Jesus, more and more
like Christ their creator.
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So I take away from that because
idealistically we're not in the
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garden of Eden and we're not all
sitting at the feet of the Lord
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or don't even know how to sit
at the feet of the Lord to be
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trained so taking away from that
though is the idea that we can
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now have godly instructors who
are following biblical examples
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to give you the holistic...
I mean that's where you see
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those three things. They were
holistic. That teaching in the
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garden of Eden, obviously he
was training them for lifelong
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service and intended them to
be service oriented rather than
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self oriented. Give me some more
biblical examples because the
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garden of Eden
didn't last that long.
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Yes that's right. Well coming
out of there, there was not so
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much a school, but if we think
about the children of Israel
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coming out of Egypt. Take a
look at that group. Now here's a
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...The wilderness was a
great school of education.
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What a classroom. So then
he raises up a sanctuary, this
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tabernacle where he will dwell
and then he sets this whole
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learning object right in
the middle of camp to show the
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salvation process. I mean,
there's a whole study in and
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of itself, right? The sanctuary
process and about all of those
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things and his plan then was to
put this in front so they would
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questions. Why is that that
way? Why is that? And when they
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inquired, and you'll find this
in scripture, when they inquired
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that's when they were told.
So it improves the inquisitive
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nature, it facilitates it.
If there's nothing there, you're
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not asking questions. All of a
sudden there's a pillar and well
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why did we build that pillar
there? Well this was to show
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where God had led us and...
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Okay, so I see what you're
saying is that God's method is
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that he put that inquisitiveness
in us. We see it for little
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children and that's the way
they learn. But now the current
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school model in most
public schools smothers that
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inquisitive
intuitive way of learning.
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Well and quite frankly every
day struggle with that. Most
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of the teachers I've met
are deeply concerned about their
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young people in their classrooms
and they want them to learn.
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Now that's not the deepest
struggle, but the way we've
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designed this system makes it
very difficult to do that and so
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they struggle between this
content and developing the child
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and the spiritual nature and
covering the content and so they
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struggle with these things. In
God's methods is he put out this
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tabernacle in that case. We
have more cases. School of the
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prophets, we can look there to
find lessons for how our schools
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should be run even today. We
have the model of Jesus and his
00:14:35.61\00:14:39.61
school. Or Paul. Yes, Paul and
his school, right. He admonishes
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Timothy. We can take a peek at
that, too. 2 Timothy chapter 3
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and there are two verses here.
We can start by taking a look
00:14:54.44\00:14:58.80
at 2 Timothy 3:15
and I'll read it here.
00:14:58.83\00:15:04.46
And that from childhood you have
known the Holy Scriptures which
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are able to make you wise for
salvation through faith which is
00:15:11.17\00:15:15.00
in Christ Jesus. So
here it is: The scriptures,
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taught when he was a child.
00:15:18.89\00:15:20.61
Of course, in chapter 1, I think
that is verse 5, it's talking
00:15:20.65\00:15:27.80
about it was his grandmother
Lois and his mother Eunice who
00:15:27.83\00:15:32.32
taught him. You know when he
says that the scriptures build
00:15:32.35\00:15:35.78
wisdom; I went to church with
a man who had like a third grade
00:15:37.29\00:15:41.29
education, could barely
read, and when he'd just been
00:15:42.77\00:15:45.88
converted, I watched him over
the next few years as he really
00:15:45.92\00:15:49.92
began to read the Bible and
other Christian literature and I
00:15:50.28\00:15:54.28
saw this man develop, not only
in his reading skills, but in
00:15:54.87\00:15:58.87
wisdom. He really developed
godly wisdom and he ended up
00:15:59.42\00:16:02.50
being an elder of the church.
It was amazing. So we see then
00:16:02.53\00:16:05.67
that the Bible is an essential
component for learning.
00:16:05.71\00:16:09.71
Absolutely, absolutely and
you know if we look at what God
00:16:11.82\00:16:17.64
is trying to tell us about what
good education is I think it
00:16:17.67\00:16:20.35
would be helpful if we could
spend a few minutes at what
00:16:20.39\00:16:25.20
are these essential components
of a biblical education process.
00:16:25.23\00:16:31.16
Does that sound
good? That sounds good.
00:16:32.19\00:16:33.39
All right so if we start
by taking a look at this slide
00:16:33.43\00:16:37.43
here that shows this quote.
Now this, again, comes from
00:16:38.06\00:16:42.06
this book education and check
this out, check this out and
00:16:42.52\00:16:46.52
we're going to hit this one.
The mind occupied with common
00:16:46.56\00:16:50.53
place matters only,
becomes dwarfed and enfeebled...
00:16:50.57\00:16:54.57
As a safeguard against this
degeneracy and a stimulus to
00:16:55.47\00:16:59.47
development nothing else can
equal the study of God's word.
00:17:00.21\00:17:04.21
...And listen how
she ends this quote...
00:17:04.91\00:17:06.52
As a means of intellectual
training the Bible is more
00:17:06.56\00:17:10.56
effective than any other book,
or all other books combined.
00:17:11.29\00:17:15.29
To my point about this gentleman
who had so little understanding
00:17:15.62\00:17:19.62
of life in itself and had
very little reading skills and I
00:17:21.26\00:17:25.26
watched this man be transformed
by the words of God, and so I'm
00:17:25.58\00:17:29.58
absolutely... He got the
heavenly wisdom from above as
00:17:30.25\00:17:34.04
he developed his
relationship with the Lord.
00:17:34.08\00:17:35.77
I believe it, I believe it
and I've experienced it. I've
00:17:35.80\00:17:38.28
experienced it. I think anyone
who knew me in high school or in
00:17:38.31\00:17:42.17
even my undergraduate degree
would not have called me an
00:17:42.20\00:17:45.73
academician and the idea of
getting a doctorate would have
00:17:45.76\00:17:50.40
been just sort of out or their
mind. But as I had children and
00:17:50.43\00:17:55.41
grew and I was in construction
for a while, I just opened up
00:17:55.44\00:18:00.39
and started reading and
studying and the power of the
00:18:00.42\00:18:05.64
Bible is beyond comprehension to
human understanding. Let's just
00:18:05.67\00:18:12.56
put it as it is. It's
all God-breathed isn't it?
00:18:12.59\00:18:15.56
Think about this, think about
this. You take God's design and
00:18:15.59\00:18:20.70
of course God has this ability
to be separated from time, so
00:18:20.73\00:18:26.03
he sees where we're at right now
he sees where he wants us to be
00:18:26.06\00:18:30.34
and then he goes back... I don't
know how exactly he does it, but
00:18:30.38\00:18:34.29
just follow me for little bit...
So he goes back in time and he
00:18:34.33\00:18:38.21
back and he talks with the
prophets and says, Okay here's
00:18:38.24\00:18:41.89
what they need at this time.
So they write that down, it
00:18:41.92\00:18:45.07
comes to us when we're right
here wrestling with where we
00:18:45.11\00:18:48.53
need to be. He knows where
he needs to point us, he knows
00:18:48.56\00:18:52.71
exactly what we need and he
gives us that gift in scripture.
00:18:52.75\00:18:56.96
And it's something that... the
way I say it is, This word is
00:18:57.00\00:19:01.91
inexhaustible. You can study the
same chapter, the same chapter,
00:19:01.94\00:19:06.00
not just book, but you can study
the same chapter over and over
00:19:06.04\00:19:10.06
again for a year and you're
going to learn something new
00:19:10.10\00:19:12.32
every day from that because it's
like you begin to develop the
00:19:12.35\00:19:16.01
spiritual discernment and if you
have the Holy Spirit in you the
00:19:16.04\00:19:20.49
Holy Spirit is leading. The Lord
doesn't ask us to learn it all
00:19:20.53\00:19:24.49
at once. It's so amazing to
me how he leads us in baby steps
00:19:24.53\00:19:28.14
and, you know, we get the milk
of the word first and then we
00:19:28.18\00:19:31.49
begin to get the solid food.
I'm one of these underliners and
00:19:31.53\00:19:35.59
sometimes I underline and I
can remember when I was first...
00:19:35.63\00:19:39.65
in one year I read through
the New Testament 200 times.
00:19:39.69\00:19:42.99
I'd underline what was important
and then I'd just start all over
00:19:43.02\00:19:46.43
and read it again. Then I'd come
by the second time and think
00:19:46.46\00:19:49.64
Oh no, and I'd take a different
colored pencil. This is what's
00:19:49.67\00:19:52.77
really the most important. The
third time through - Oh no, this
00:19:52.80\00:19:55.86
is the most important message.
How could I have missed it.
00:19:55.90\00:19:59.16
It is so amazing to me that
no matter how often I'd studied
00:19:59.19\00:20:02.42
something God just
keeps unfolding more and more.
00:20:02.46\00:20:06.93
So what happens... Think about
this... So how does the Bible
00:20:06.96\00:20:13.40
become a center of education?
I mean, we're thinking math and
00:20:13.44\00:20:18.39
science when we think education
right? But remember at the
00:20:18.42\00:20:23.92
of the book Education our ideas
are too low and too narrow.
00:20:23.96\00:20:30.60
I think the point that has come
to me in my learning is that
00:20:30.64\00:20:37.25
God really has a deeper,
much bigger picture for our
00:20:37.28\00:20:41.62
development that scripture
is designed for. And actually
00:20:41.66\00:20:46.56
to look up this quote in it's
context in the book Education,
00:20:46.59\00:20:51.26
you look up the quote and the
amazing part about it is this
00:20:51.30\00:20:56.18
is talking about intellectual
development. It's not talking
00:20:56.22\00:21:00.28
about spiritual development.
The paragraph that follows that
00:21:00.31\00:21:03.81
quote talks about spiritual
development and how the Bible
00:21:03.85\00:21:07.31
is good for
spiritual development.
00:21:07.35\00:21:09.99
Really the Bible is an
intellectual tool, it's an
00:21:10.02\00:21:13.89
intellectual development tool.
Because it takes intellect more
00:21:13.92\00:21:18.52
and more to grow and to put
pieces together. It's amazing.
00:21:18.55\00:21:23.34
It is amazing. So what are
some of the other principles?
00:21:23.38\00:21:28.10
Okay, good point. Nature. Nature
is the second textbook that's
00:21:28.13\00:21:33.51
been given to us by God. So you
take a look at this first book,
00:21:33.54\00:21:38.88
scripture, the second book
of God to his people is nature.
00:21:38.92\00:21:43.06
I just have to say something
here because one of the most
00:21:43.09\00:21:47.16
amazing things about nature to
me... We've always heard that no
00:21:47.19\00:21:50.20
two snowflakes are alike. I was
studying on leaves. Did you know
00:21:50.23\00:21:53.21
there are no two leaves
alike. When you think of all the
00:21:53.24\00:21:55.68
billions and billions and
billions of leaves in the world
00:21:55.72\00:21:59.55
no two leaves are exactly alike.
It amazes me how God is such
00:21:59.59\00:22:03.65
an artistic creator. And you see
all the different birds and all
00:22:03.68\00:22:07.71
the different colors of flowers
and nature is an incredible
00:22:07.74\00:22:12.39
study. It's an
incredible textbook and
00:22:12.43\00:22:14.16
it's actually an incredible
classroom and study, a great
00:22:14.20\00:22:19.28
textbook. And teachers know this
too. Getting outside; there's
00:22:19.32\00:22:24.33
something about nature and what
we've also found just through
00:22:24.37\00:22:28.98
our experience and some authors
have agreed with this that going
00:22:29.02\00:22:34.81
out of doors helps to remove the
focus that we have on fashion.
00:22:34.85\00:22:40.10
Sometimes we get too focused on
fashion. Young people go, Oh I
00:22:40.13\00:22:43.70
have to look like this or I have
to look... It's just sort of
00:22:43.73\00:22:47.81
this great equalizer of everyone
and so nature just has so many
00:22:47.85\00:22:51.90
lessons that it can teach
us. It's another incredible book
00:22:51.93\00:22:56.38
given to us by God for the,
well I was going to say, for
00:22:56.42\00:23:00.21
the education of our children
but for everyone; it's for
00:23:00.24\00:23:03.99
educating everyone. So
we've good the Good Book,
00:23:04.03\00:23:06.31
we've got nature's book but
certainly she was not against
00:23:06.35\00:23:10.68
your regular old
textbook learning was she?
00:23:10.72\00:23:13.35
That's right. No, No. Absolutely
that is, I think, a significant
00:23:13.38\00:23:18.54
part of the educational process.
We may be tempted to swing too
00:23:18.58\00:23:22.85
far the other way where we get
rid of the academic knowledge
00:23:22.88\00:23:27.12
and we just focus on the
spiritual knowledge. And that
00:23:27.16\00:23:31.01
would be wrong. Exactly, that
would be focusing on just one
00:23:31.04\00:23:35.49
and not the whole being again.
So academic knowledge is a part
00:23:35.53\00:23:39.94
of that. All
right. I know that I've
00:23:39.97\00:23:46.25
heard much about manual labor,
that that's a good educational
00:23:46.29\00:23:48.86
process. Yes.
Manual labor is something
00:23:48.89\00:23:52.98
that helps, again, the taxing of
the mind that happens you know
00:23:53.02\00:23:57.79
when we get into study, and
we can study scripture and study
00:23:57.82\00:24:02.14
scripture and be in nature.
There's something about working
00:24:02.18\00:24:08.36
out the body in physical,
manual useful labor. Now imagine
00:24:08.39\00:24:12.80
yourself running on a treadmill,
which is sometimes all we can
00:24:12.84\00:24:16.90
do for exercise cause we need
to exercise our bodies, but how
00:24:16.93\00:24:21.40
much better to work in a garden
with your hands, planting and
00:24:21.43\00:24:25.84
pulling weeds and being active
with the soil. You're learning
00:24:25.88\00:24:32.04
lessons, you're in fresh air.
It's God design for manual labor
00:24:32.07\00:24:37.46
You know, I think manual labor
helps develop those spacial
00:24:37.49\00:24:41.95
skills and various things.
You know, you can talk in theory
00:24:41.98\00:24:45.93
from books or learn in theory,
but you get out and actually
00:24:45.97\00:24:49.83
apply principles of engineering
or physics or whatever or
00:24:49.86\00:24:53.17
chemistry. This is something
that as you get out and actually
00:24:53.21\00:24:56.48
do, that's the
application isn't it?
00:24:56.52\00:24:59.17
Yes. There's another quote that
we don't have on the slides, but
00:24:59.20\00:25:02.19
she talks about that
manual labor is needed also by
00:25:02.22\00:25:07.85
professional men. So an
education derived chiefly from
00:25:07.88\00:25:13.44
books leads to what she calls
superficial learning. That's the
00:25:13.48\00:25:18.54
same point you're talking about,
getting back into the physical
00:25:18.58\00:25:23.28
hands on that has to be a part
of it. Scripture doesn't talk
00:25:23.32\00:25:29.32
about sports, you understand
what I'm saying? I mean, we
00:25:29.35\00:25:34.11
think that PE class, physical
education, covers that one
00:25:34.14\00:25:39.65
component, but God's design
is for useful, physical, manual
00:25:39.68\00:25:45.16
labor; a great equalizer.
00:25:45.19\00:25:46.68
So that kind of then ties into
her final principle, I believe,
00:25:46.72\00:25:49.78
of health and body. That's
something that is also part of
00:25:49.82\00:25:56.21
our learning experience
of health, body and mind.
00:25:56.25\00:25:58.85
It's one of these great
components, yes; making sure
00:25:58.89\00:26:01.42
that you are learning how
to take care of your body, the
00:26:01.45\00:26:07.01
health, and health isn't even
just of the body, it's also of
00:26:07.04\00:26:12.53
the mind. When we talk about EQ,
you know, emotional intelligence
00:26:12.56\00:26:18.69
we touched on that in one of our
earlier shows, the EQ is a way
00:26:18.73\00:26:24.46
of bringing health to the mind.
The struggles that people go
00:26:24.50\00:26:29.83
through when someone offends
them of not being able to go
00:26:29.87\00:26:35.13
to that person directly and to
say, I'm sorry, I've done this,
00:26:35.17\00:26:40.79
I shouldn't have; that is
so huge in the life and what it
00:26:40.83\00:26:45.92
means to be successful
and be able to do that.
00:26:45.95\00:26:48.10
See, again, when you go back
to the scripture I think if you
00:26:48.14\00:26:51.65
really want to develop a good
EQ-emotional quotient-you find
00:26:51.69\00:26:55.26
those principles in scripture
because this is something that
00:26:55.29\00:26:58.80
you learn how to deal with these
things according to God's wisdom
00:26:58.83\00:27:03.01
and it's amazing how you start
putting these principles into
00:27:03.05\00:27:06.63
practice and God begins to
change you. You know, you've
00:27:06.66\00:27:09.85
heard all these things on
personality study and people
00:27:09.89\00:27:12.72
will say, Well, I'm just
choleric, I can't help myself,
00:27:12.76\00:27:15.53
or I'm sanguine, I can't help
myself. and it always upsets me
00:27:15.56\00:27:20.00
to a point... If that's your
thing, I'm not trying to paint
00:27:20.03\00:27:24.43
a bad light, but I do believe
that God wants to recreate us
00:27:25.24\00:27:28.75
and even though we may be
choleric by nature, that you're
00:27:28.79\00:27:32.23
a new creation in Christ Jesus
in that he's not trying to make
00:27:32.26\00:27:36.08
us cookie cutter Christians,
but that we will develop more of
00:27:36.11\00:27:39.89
the characteristics of Christ.
00:27:39.92\00:27:41.01
Fruits of the Spirit. When the
Spirit dwells in you the fruit
00:27:41.05\00:27:44.82
of the Spirit will show.
00:27:44.86\00:27:46.67
I can't believe that our time
has already gone, but I just
00:27:46.70\00:27:49.65
want to thank you so much
for being here again today.
00:27:49.69\00:27:53.48
I'm very happy to be here.
00:27:53.52\00:27:54.75
I am going to plug your
book one more time and that is
00:27:54.78\00:27:58.68
actually by E.G. White. The
book is Education. You can get
00:27:58.71\00:28:02.84
it at adventistbookcenter.com.
Thank you so much for joining
00:28:02.88\00:28:06.97
us today. I
hope you were blessed
00:28:07.01\00:28:10.35