Participants: J. D. Quinn (Host), Magna Parks
Series Code: IAA
Program Code: IAA000423
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00:01 Are you familiar with the term psychotherapy. Today we're going
00:04 to be talking about psychotherapy and the Christian. 00:07 Stay tuned. We'll be right back. 00:08 Music being played 00:33 Welcome to Issues and Answers. My name is J.D. Quinn. 00:36 Today we're going to be talking about a big word called 00:39 psychotherapy and how does that relate to the Christian. 00:42 We have a special guest today and this is Dr. Magna Parks. 00:48 Not only has Magna taught many, many years, she'll explain it to 00:54 you in a little bit, but she has also written a book called 00:56 Christian's Beware: The Dangers of Secular Psychology. 01:00 It's a good read. So anyway, how are you doing today? 01:05 I'm doing great. It's good to be here. 01:06 Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, are 01:09 you married? Well, I'm a licensed 01:11 psychologist from Atlanta, Georgia, married to a wonderful 01:14 man names Al Parks. We've been married for almost 13 years and 01:19 I've been in the field of psychology for over 20 years. 01:23 It's been a while. It's a long time. 01:25 Yes, and as you've mentioned, I've taught, I've even taught at 01:27 Oakwood College for five years and I was in private practice 01:31 for almost 15 years, until my husband and I started our 01:35 current ministry, Be In Good Health. 01:36 Be In Good Health. That's a good name, Be in Good Health. 01:42 We just help educate people about basic health principles 01:45 mentally, physically and spiritually. 01:47 The whole gamut. The whole gamut, yes. 01:50 Amen. It's good to be here. 01:52 Today we're going to be talking about psychotherapy and the 01:55 Christian. Psychotherapy is one of those terms that a lot of 02:00 people may not know what it even means. 02:03 So let's start off by laying the foundation. 02:05 What is psychotherapy? 02:07 Psychotherapy is a form of treatment where you use various 02:12 psychological techniques and methods to help people 02:15 emotionally and to help them behaviorally. So some of the 02:19 methods may include, I try to help you to understand who you 02:23 are, why you became the way you are. I try to help you deal with 02:27 the conflicts that are inside. Many people are dealing with 02:30 conflicts inside, conflicting feelings, conflicting thoughts. 02:34 We use these methods to draw these things out or to help 02:37 people change their behaviors or change their thoughts. 02:40 So that's a basic summary of what psychotherapy is. 02:44 Man, that covers a lot. It does, it does and it took 02:50 me five years to learn psychotherapy in my graduate 02:54 training. Did you every use it in your 02:58 private practice? I sure did; the whole 14 years I 03:01 was there, well most of the time I was there, until the Lord 03:04 showed me some different things, but I used it. I believe it 03:08 helped some people. What I found out later was it helped 03:12 them for the short term, and the reason I say that is because as 03:16 the years went on I found many people coming in who had been 03:19 to three or four other psychotherapists. That's when 03:22 the antenna started to raise for me that something is not exactly 03:26 clicking here if they're cycling in and out of therapy. They're 03:30 not really healing emotionally and mentally as we would hope 03:35 they would as a result of using these techniques. 03:37 So I guess that of course it probably comes down to each 03:40 one's ability. Different secular psychologists probably have 03:47 different techniques, but after four you would think that a 03:51 red flag would go up there; something is not working the 03:53 way it should work. Well, the bottom line is, and 03:57 I'm going to talk about this further, psychotherapy alone 04:00 can alleviate symptoms, but the true change does not occur until 04:05 you start in the heart. Psychotherapy just focuses on 04:08 behaviors, thoughts and feelings which are important. I don't 04:11 want to down play that, some people need that for the short 04:15 term, but if they really want deep-down true healing we need 04:18 to go further than that. 04:19 It seems like normally when I hear the term psychotherapy 04:23 I always think about well let's take you back to your childhood. 04:26 That's a major part of it. 04:27 Let's go back there and let's kind of start getting the big 04:29 eraser out and let's kind of start erasing this stuff, and 04:33 then if we can just follow this track and everything, well one 04:36 of these days you're going to be better. So, how does that lead 04:43 to the problems if we do not get past that as we get older? 04:48 Well, it can lead to problems. But the thing that I want to 04:53 mention today is that as Christians you can understand 04:57 that, but unless Christ comes into your heart and changes you, 05:01 just understanding that will not help us, if that makes any sense 05:04 because as Christians we become new creatures and when we become 05:08 new creatures it doesn't mean that tomorrow all my problems 05:12 will be gone, but it means that I have the different focus and 05:16 my focus is on as that new creature helping the creator to 05:19 change me. Amen. Seems to like what we 05:24 don't truly understand is the supernatural power of the 05:28 creator who is doing this adjusting. It's kind of hard to 05:35 term your psychologist, who probably could be your best 05:38 friend for a while as being supernatural. So I would rather 05:42 go to someone that has that supernatural power whenever 05:47 you start. I think that you brought some graphics. 05:50 Yes, I did. Because I believe that there is some impact of 05:55 childhood, which you mentioned earlier, that when you think of 05:58 psychotherapy you think of going back to childhood, and the Bible 06:01 tells us that childhood has an impact and there are other 06:05 people who have written about that. I have one graphic that 06:07 shows something powerful that I don't know if many people know 06:10 know about this. Let's go to that graphic now. 06:12 The character of Napoleon Bonaparte was greatly influenced 06:16 by his training in childhood. Unwise instructors inspired him 06:21 with a love for conquest, forming mimic armies and placing 06:25 him at their head as commander... And this is the 06:28 significant sentence... Here was laid the foundation for his 06:33 career of strife and bloodshed. So we see Napoleon Bonaparte, 06:38 we know the history, we know what kind of person he was, but 06:40 this particular author is telling us that the principles 06:44 for that were laid in childhood where he started to act out 06:47 being a commander and carrying out armies and all of that. 06:51 We see the results of that as an adult as we read history. 06:53 We even see that today, you know. Our kids, we want them 06:57 to mimic things out. So it's really what you put in is 07:03 normally what you're going to get out. This is a study here. 07:08 It is, and as we look through the Bible there are examples. 07:11 When you look and you read the books of Kings and Judges it 07:15 says that he followed his father's ways, or he followed 07:18 his grandfather's ways. So we know that childhood does have 07:22 an impact and we cannot deny that. We can't deny that at all, 07:26 it's a reality. So let's look at going back to 07:32 childhood. So do we focus on childhood to help people heal 07:37 emotionally? Do we go there, I mean, how does all that work? 07:41 That's a very good question. I could tell you how I used to 07:44 work. People would come in, I would spend initial time... 07:47 I would actually ask them to fill out questions about their 07:49 childhood. How was your relationship with your father? 07:51 How did your mother treat your dad? How did your mother treat 07:54 you. How was your relationship with your siblings. All of that 07:58 does have an impact. So I learned a lot from that. This is 08:01 where I went wrong. As I spent a lot of time getting their 08:06 feelings out about that, drawing pictures about it and they 08:10 learned a lot, but the behavior change didn't follow. I made a 08:14 lot of money because that type of therapy keeps people coming 08:18 in because they really think that they're learning, you know, 08:22 this knowledge that I'm gaining is really helping me to learn. 08:25 It's interesting, one thought that came to my mind was, Satan 08:29 used that same explanation to Eve, if you know more you'll be 08:33 better. But we found out that wasn't true and in psychology 08:37 that is not necessarily true that you know more meaning you 08:41 will be better. I do believe, however, there are times to 08:44 make connections because God wants us to make connections: 08:47 I'm doing this because my father did this. But the next step is, 08:51 Lord, how can you help me to move past this. After you gain 08:54 that knowledge only God can come in and help you to move forward 08:58 and to change. That's where I went wrong. 09:01 Did you find out that some of people just weren't able to 09:05 answer these questions: Oh many of them were not 09:07 when I first started out in the early 90's but I don't know 09:10 if you've recognized, if you look at TV and you go to the 09:13 book stores, there are so many books and so many program on how 09:17 childhood impacts us now. People are very knowledgeable about 09:21 that. So they come in to me talking about these things. 09:24 I know why I am like this, my father did this, this happened 09:28 to me, that happened to me. But as I started to learn more I 09:30 said to myself, They know all of this, but they're still coming 09:33 in to see me. So there's a disconnect somewhere. 09:36 So, in order to heal emotionally is that ever truly done? 09:42 I don't think so personally. I think some changes occur but 09:47 not true emotional healing. If we spend all the time talking 09:52 about childhood personally I don't think that it is done as 09:57 thoroughly as it should be. I really don't think so. 09:59 It would just seem like that would just be an unending mine 10:03 that you just keep chipping away and keep chipping away and 10:07 it just gets deeper and deeper and deeper. Then it gets a 10:10 little bit more complicated and then you go to the right or 10:13 you go to the left and it starts all over again. 10:15 That's exactly what happens and sometimes it opens up wounds as 10:19 well that people would do better just to keep closed, if that 10:22 makes any sense. Most certainly it does. You know sometimes you 10:25 don't have to dig that wound open again in order to heal; let 10:29 it heal. I don't want to throw it completely 10:32 away but I think the problem with secular psychology is 10:35 that's where we stop and God says, I want you to move further 10:40 Amen. I certainly want to make a point that we aren't downgrading 10:45 psychologists in any way because you are one. It's just that in 10:50 your particular life the way that God led, it took you up to 10:54 a certain point and then you were enlightened by the Holy 10:58 Spirit, which is a gift to each and every one of us and then 11:02 you started seeing things that you hadn't seen before. 11:06 I probably could guess that you started seeing a different type 11:10 of healing in your clients. 11:13 I did. Oh I can tell you so many stories about the type of 11:15 healing. I mentioned in another program about the young lady who 11:19 had been sexually abused by so many different people and had 11:22 been through years of therapy and it was only when we started 11:24 talking about forgiveness that her healing occurred. I know 11:27 another story of a woman who was having problems because she was 11:30 the illegitimate child, the only child of this particular father 11:34 and all her sisters had the same mother and father. She came to 11:37 me and had been through all this therapy and the Holy Spirit 11:40 impressed me to take a chapter or a page out of a particular 11:43 book called Desire of Ages that talks about Christ being sort of 11:47 illegitimate because he didn't have the earthly father. 11:50 She read it and came and said to me, This is the solution to my 11:54 problems. If Christ went through this and was able to be okay, 11:58 I can go through this and be okay too. She said, Thank you 12:01 so much for sharing that with me. But if I had used the 12:04 traditional psychotherapy, we would have been there exploring 12:07 her feelings about what it feels like to be the only child of 12:10 this father and, Oh, I'm just sure you're hurting so much, 12:14 you know. But God has just blessed to be able to lead me to 12:17 know through the Holy Spirit how to really help this woman. 12:21 Now I guess that there are other types of psychotherapy. 12:25 Yes there are. Some psychotherapists don't even 12:28 look at childhood. Some of them just focus purely on changing 12:32 behaviors; like if a child has problems with urinating in the 12:35 bed all the time, they use behavior modification techniques 12:39 where they do certain things to help the child stop doing that 12:42 if it's not a physiological problem. With smoking, or with 12:46 overweight they use reward- punishment systems to help 12:49 people to change their behaviors and that's pretty effective. 12:53 However, what is happening is all we do is look for changing 12:56 of behaviors and not changing of the heart what will happen? 12:59 If another behavior goes bad guess what, I'm running back to 13:02 that psychotherapist again. So those things are helpful, but we 13:06 still, even as we go to them because I'm not saying not to 13:09 go to them, but even as we go we recognize this may stop my 13:12 behavior but I have to keep carrying it further so the Lord 13:16 can change my heart. So I'm assuming that if there 13:19 are people in our audience that seem like they have come to a 13:21 crossroad and they can't go any further and they have been going 13:25 to their therapist for a long time, perhaps they need to get 13:28 on their knees. Amen, amen. The other thing they 13:31 could do is to find someone who is biblically based, not 13:35 necessarily a PhD or a masters in psychology. A grounded pastor 13:40 a grounded Bible worker, a grounded church member who knows 13:44 God's word could help this person move past that block. 13:47 That's what I love about God's word. You don't have to have a 13:50 Ph. D. If you have one that's great, but if you don't have one 13:53 there's many people that you can reach out to and help. 13:56 Now everybody has different goals and some people have 13:59 different influences in their life and different opportunities 14:04 than other people have, but we can all have the heart of God if 14:08 we can just turn it over and surrender it to him. You can use 14:13 this in mighty ways, mighty ways. Should a red flag go up 14:17 whenever we're talking about Christianity and secular 14:21 psychology? Well yes, a red flag should go 14:25 up because we need to compare everything with scripture. And 14:30 related to that, we shouldn't just automatically assume that 14:35 because someone titles themselves as a Christian 14:39 psychologist that they are safe. I titled myself as a Christian 14:42 psychologist. The insurance company, because I was on a lot 14:46 of insurance lists as a mental health provider, they would 14:49 refer people to me because the person would call in and say I 14:52 want a Christian psychologist. But, J.D., you know what I was 14:55 doing. I rarely picked up their Bible. They came to me, I was a 14:59 Christian, but I used a lot of Freud, I used a lot of Carl 15:03 Rogers, I used a lot of Maslow. But they just wanted to know I 15:07 was a Christian. So because a person has that title before 15:10 them does not mean they are going to refer more to the Bible 15:13 than to secular psychology to help. So I tell people that all 15:16 the time; when you're looking for someone kind of talk to 15:19 them and get a sense of the methods they use, how much do 15:22 you use the Bible? How much do you pray? Just ask those 15:24 questions and if they are honest they will answer them and they 15:27 will give you an idea of what they mean when they dub 15:30 themselves as a Christian psychologist. 15:33 You know, back whenever I grew up we were vaccinated as kids, 15:38 measles, mumps and all this kind of stuff and everything. 15:43 And I found out that with a small group of people it didn't 15:48 take. So even if you were vaccinated, doesn't necessarily 15:53 mean that it's going to take. So it's very important that you 15:59 do ask whoever you choose to share time with from a therapy 16:05 standpoint that you're on the same page. 16:07 That's very important, very important, especially for 16:10 Christians because our guidebook is the Bible and when we deviate 16:14 away from that, that can be problematic. But even for the 16:17 secular person. You may not have to day Bible scripture to 16:21 them but the principles of the Bible are much more healing than 16:24 what secular psychology alone has to offer. 16:27 I know that people call 3ABN pastoral department quite 16:31 often, not to counsel, because we don't counsel, but they do 16:35 call for prayer because they know that there is something 16:38 supernatural in prayer. There are many times, and I say this 16:41 with love in my heart, that you've got some people that 16:45 just want to talk. They really don't want to allow God to work. 16:49 They'd rather just talk, talk, talk, talk. You know you can 16:53 only talk for so long and especially as many people 16:55 that call us. So I've found myself, and I'm saying this with 16:58 love in my heart. I mean, it's very important that you hear 17:02 that. I say, Do you want to just talk or do we want to get 17:05 to the bottom of this issue? If you want to get to the issue, 17:08 we can bring Jesus Christ into this real quick. 17:11 You say you're not a counselor. You're a good counselor. 17:13 Well, thank you Jesus. But the whole thing is here again just 17:18 because they're vaccinated does not mean that it's going to take 17:23 We do deal with lots of hurting people. What about people 17:30 getting on the Christian band wagon. Is it strictly a 17:35 Christian band wagon or do other non-Christian's express 17:40 concerns about the psychotherapy? 17:42 Oh yes. Non-Christians are expressing concern especially 17:45 the research psychologists. You know there's a divide in 17:48 psychology, many people don't know that between those who do 17:52 research and those who do therapy. When I was going 17:55 through school the researchers would criticize them saying 17:57 you're basing all these things on Freud, Rogers, Maslow. 17:59 There's not been any research on this. But we actually have a 18:03 graphic that shows one study and the results of what one study 18:07 showed about psychotherapy and how much it works. Let's show 18:10 that graphic right now. In a review of 42 studies 18:14 comparing professional therapists with paraprofessional 18:17 therapists... let me explain, paraprofessional is the one who 18:20 doesn't have the degree in psychology or mental health... 18:23 only one study out of those 42 showed that the trained 18:27 therapist got better results. Twenty-nine studies showed no 18:32 difference between those two groups and the remaining 12 18:36 studies showed that the paraprofessionals actually 18:40 out-performed the professional therapists. You know if I had 18:43 read that study years ago when it came out I would not have 18:47 been a happy camper because I spent a lot of years in school 18:50 and a lot of money. But what this is saying is that the 18:53 trained did not necessarily do much better than those who were 18:57 not trained in helping people with their problems. And many 19:00 psychologists and mental health professionals might not want to 19:03 hear that but I'm just basing it on what science shows. 19:06 There are psychologists who are non-therapists out there saying, 19:11 You know guys, you're doing this but I don't know necessarily if 19:14 you're doing any better than a person who just provides a good 19:17 listening ear. So there are some secular people who are 19:22 recognizing... Actually there's a book that's called On Blanking 19:26 Out; it's something about Americans becoming less 19:30 strong and less resilient because we're so therapy prone. 19:34 There was a time when Americans were strong because we were able 19:38 to, for lack of a better term, pull ourselves up by our own 19:41 bootstraps. But the therapizing of America has 19:45 actually made us weaker. 19:46 They just did it, you know, they just got out there and they just 19:51 did it. If a person can be led, and many people can be led, 19:57 if they're being led, they can be molded. So this again is 20:02 where to me it only makes sense; of course, I'm coming from a 20:06 spiritual aspect, let's let God take over. Let's let him do what 20:10 he does. He's supernatural, so supernatural things are going to 20:15 happen if you invite him in and just say, I'm yours Lord. You 20:19 know, not my will be done but yours be done. It would just 20:25 make sense, if you choose to believe that He is real, then He 20:32 certainly will do what he has promised to do. I've got a 20:37 question here. It says what about Christian psychologists, 20:41 we're talking about on the graphic there, and are they 20:45 safer for us as Christians? 20:48 If they're using the Bible as their base they are, very much 20:52 so. If they're basing their counsel from the principles of 20:55 scripture, they are safer than a secular psychologist because 20:58 scripture is going to bring lasting change when we apply it. 21:02 Secular psychology only changes the outside, but the scripture 21:05 will bring the lasting change. 21:07 I would assume that if you are indeed a Christian you are 21:13 looking for change and you know your change does come from Jesus 21:16 and so that would probably just help their mind set even 21:21 so they'd go into it looking. I know Father that you're out 21:25 there, I know that if I ask you to come into my heart that you 21:29 will come in and you know the issues that I have. 21:30 But you know the sad part, J.D., is that I've spoken to some 21:34 Christians and I tell them how I work since the Lord has changed 21:38 my way and they're like you just use the Bible? That breaks my 21:42 heart when I hear that because we don't recognize how rich the 21:45 Bible is and the principles that are in there. I remember working 21:49 with a non-religious person and they were going through a lot of 21:52 stress and I said, I'm going to share a principle with you that 21:55 is found in Deuteronomy. I always forget the chapter. 21:57 Now I didn't tell them this. I just said remember this, As thy 22:02 day so shall thy strength be. They took that home and came 22:06 back to me a week or two later and said, You know, I repeated 22:09 that to myself every day and it made a difference. Because 22:13 I explained it to them. God will provide you strength for this 22:16 day. You go to bed and wake up and then the next day he will 22:19 provide you strength. Don't try to surmount the whole week. 22:23 Take one day at a time and he will give you strength. Actually 22:27 I didn't say God now that I think about it, I just said 22:29 strength will be given to you. And they took that principle and 22:32 went with it and said that was so helpful to hear that 22:36 principle. That's just an example out of many. One author 22:40 says, True psychology is found in the scriptures and I truly 22:44 believe that. I believe that. I guess that 22:48 psychology itself, what is that, the study of human nature? 22:51 Of the mind. That's right, the study of the mind. And who 22:54 better knows the mind than the creator of the mind. I remember 22:59 that he promises us grace for the day. So let's don't sit and 23:05 get caught up in what could happen tomorrow because he's 23:08 promised us, As your day is then your strength shall be. And if 23:13 we start building up mountains for tomorrow, which lots of 23:16 people do, then he says, Wait a minute here, I haven't promised 23:20 you grace for tomorrow, it will come, that's tomorrow. Let's 23:24 bring reality and let's deal with today. 23:27 You know, another Bible verse that focuses on that is 23:29 Matthew 6. Take no thought therefore for tomorrow for 23:31 tomorrow shall bring, I'm just blanking on it, but sufficient 23:35 unto the day is the evil thereof. Tomorrow shall take 23:39 thought for itself, that's what it is. 23:40 Exactly. The truth of the matter is many people have been hurt 23:47 in childhood. How can they be helped? Because they experience 23:53 this pain as a child, they carry it on as a young adult and then 23:58 many people... I mean I've had people call that are 80 years 24:02 old and they've never shared an issue that they've had in their 24:07 life with anybody; 80 years old! But they've experienced this as 24:12 a child. So they went from childhood, young adulthood 24:16 adulthood and they continue to grow. But how can they be helped 24:22 Do we have any ideal in dealing with the people that have been 24:28 hurt by childhood experiences? 24:30 Since I've learned a different way I start out with people and 24:35 I say to them, Let's look at focusing on how God can help 24:39 you move past this. Present this to God and say, God this person 24:44 this parent did this terrible thing to me. What is it that you 24:48 can do for me through this. How can you heal me? And turn to his 24:52 word for that. It sounds so simplistic and sometimes I 24:56 actually might need to hold their hand in helping them find 24:59 that in God's word. But when they do that healing can come. 25:03 The other thing is looking at what we can learn from these 25:07 things. There are some people who have become wonderful 25:11 people, not that God put this on them for that to happen, but as 25:15 a result of these childhood difficulties they could comfort 25:18 others wherewith they have been comforted. So a person who has 25:22 been molested can easily talk to someone who has been molested 25:26 A person who has been through a divorce can easily relate to 25:29 someone who has been divorced and they can, Lord, because of 25:32 these things I can help so many people. So there are a lot of 25:35 things that I do with people like that but those are two that 25:37 just come to mind, helping them turn to scripture and the Lord 25:39 and helping them to say, Lord, what can I do with this 25:42 situation. How can I help others and when that attention is 25:46 focused away from self, healing can come and that's what I've 25:49 seen happen in so many different situations and cases. 25:52 How has this changed your life? 25:54 Oh it's changed my life tremendously. First of all, I 25:57 can just be honest. It's helped me deal with things that have 26:00 gone on in my own past that I was looking to secular 26:05 psychology, but as I learned this, I recognized how God could 26:08 help me move past there number one and number two it's changed 26:11 how I work with people completely. I use biblical 26:14 principles. One thing I also learned in working with 26:17 Dr. Neal Nedley was it helped me understand how to apply just 26:20 basic health principles to help the mind function better; 26:23 working with people who are depressed or who are anxious. 26:26 Helping them learn how to eat better, helping them know about 26:29 what time to get to bed so those hormones can be released in the 26:32 brain to help the brain function better with stress and with 26:36 depression, helping them to exercise, even the music they 26:40 listen to, find healing music. These are the things that I do 26:43 with people and actually when I started doing that before in 26:46 my practice I lost money because people stopped coming in as much 26:49 because they were calling in leaving messages on the front 26:51 desk saying, Well, tell Dr. Parks I'm doing much better. 26:55 So I lost money, but people healed much quicker because 26:59 I was using God's principles. It was a wonderful thing. 27:02 Then they are also blessed but God honors that, God honors 27:06 you know, because we're not looking for things of this of 27:10 this earth. You know, we are looking for what comes beyond 27:15 that. Once again, psychotherapy is what in 25 words or less. 27:20 It is using the techniques of psychology to help people change 27:24 behaviors, emotions and thoughts helping them gain insight to 27:28 resolved conflicts and all of that. That's what psychotherapy 27:32 does. Well, once again we're running 27:36 out of time. But I just want you to know how much I have 27:41 appreciated your input and not only have I appreciated it but 27:45 I'm sure that our audience out there has appreciated it. 27:48 Well there's such a blessing to be here. I'm so grateful to be 27:51 here and share what the Lord has shared with me. 27:53 Once again, Be In Good Health That's the name of your 27:57 ministry? Yes it is. Amen, Amen. 28:00 I just want to thank each one of you for being with us at 28:03 Issues and Answers. Just know how much that we love each one 28:06 of you and we will continue to pray earnestly for you. 28:09 God bless. |
Revised 2014-12-17