Are you someone
who's always putting
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unrealistic
expectations on yourself
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or maybe even on someone else.
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Or are you always in a
hurry and you're multitasking.
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Stay tuned because we've got
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some good news for you.
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Hello, I'm Shelley
Quinn and welcome again
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to "Issues And Answers."
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Today we're
gonna be talking about
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how to overcome
what our -- I guess
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I would say
officially approved addictions.
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And I have a scripture
that I really want to share
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with you this is Proverbs 14:12,
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and it says,
"There is a way that seems
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right to a man, but its
end is the way of death."
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And that's what we're talking
about today, Carol. Right.
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Let me introduce our
special guest to you,
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Carol Cannon from
Birmingham, Alabama.
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And we are so glad that
you've come back again, Carol.
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Thank you. Now we
invited you back because
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you are a certified
counselor for drug and alcohol.
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Well, alcohol and drug abuse.
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We invited you back to
talk about drugs and alcohol,
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but actually it seems
what people wanted to hear most
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and what's needed most
is to delve a little deeper
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into something that the
last time you were here,
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we talked about.
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And that was perfectionism,
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work alcoholism,
religious addictions.
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The addictions
that we consider clean
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or proved addictions
that are intrinsically good
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but that are causing problems,
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so that's what we're
gonna be talking about today?
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But first tell us a
little bit about yourself.
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Well-- Personally I'm a
mother and a grand mother.
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And the wife of a
pastor. Wife of a pastor.
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And I am in the stage of
life where I am very focused
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on enjoying those
grand kids. That's wonderful.
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Yeah. But I
spent the last 35years
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up to eight hours a
day, talking with people
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who suffer from
every manner of addiction.
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And in the process discovered
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what my own
addictive tendencies are
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and been able to
get relief through
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various of the
resources that I recommend to
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addicts and
alcoholics counseling
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and 12 step programs, prayer,
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church, church, and
church disciplines and--
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Word of God, word of
God, absolutely, yes. Amen.
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Well, now you have recently
moved from Bowling Green,
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Kentucky to
Birmingham to be closer
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to those grand
babies. I sure have, yes.
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Yeah, we're so glad
that your enjoying your life
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and so glad that
you're here to share
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some of your
experiences with us.
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Explain to us, you
had mentioned these
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were officially
approved addictions,
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why do you call them so?
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Because I think that
our society in general
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and particularly the
religious segment of our society
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reinforces and rewards us
for doing some of these things.
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For overworking, for
overextending ourselves,
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for over-exhausting ourselves,
or for being for attempting
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to be impeccable
and unimpeachably pious.
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We get accolades for
that and that can really
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kind of feed the
starving ego, as it were,
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and we find ourselves
just - we get a little applause
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so we do it more because
we want more of the rewards.
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But the employers, for example,
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love work, workaholic employees.
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Yes. Right. Yes.
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So there are certain of
the addictions that those of us
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who are because trying
to be right and righteous
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and trying to be good
people, good citizens,
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good members of
the family of God.
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But we are drawn to
those particularly addictions
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because they're not only
considered to be good behavior
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in our sub
culture but they're very,
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very rewarded and reinforced.
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You wrote a book,
I know the subtitle
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was "growing up
imperfect in a perfect family,"
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what was the title?
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"Never good
enough." "Never good enough."
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And so I want to start there
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and talk about the
idea of perfectionism,
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because this is
something that in particularly
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within the church, we
know that we are to do
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all things unto the Lord.
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We know that it's a
good thing to do your best,
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but sometimes your best
isn't good enough. Right.
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And people who have
strived to be perfect
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in and of themselves
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usually end up in
some kind of problem.
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So let's talk about
perfectionism and how,
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how we delineate, how we decide
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what's acceptable as
far as doing a good job
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unto the Lord and
what's going over the line
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where it really is
an addictive behavior
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that's feeding
our adrenaline system
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or ego and all of
that. Right, right.
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Well, I look at it this way,
so many individuals come out
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of childhood with a
sense of not being good enough,
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that they've not been
able to win the approval
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of their parents or their peers.
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And so they are,
they are inclined then to,
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to try to
outperform what a normal person
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would do in
order to get approval.
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All right, so a person like that
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for a person like that,
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one accomplishment
or one achievement
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is too many in a
thousand are never enough.
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You can't give me
enough-- as many trophies
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as I would like to get.
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So I can get one 'A',
but if it's not the top 'A'
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in the class, it's not enough.
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Yes. You're talking to me.
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That's the bad thing.
That's the way I grew up.
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Right. Because.
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There is certainly
nothing in the world
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wrong with wanting to do well.
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And with
seeking to perform well,
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it's when I become
obsessed with it to the point
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that I judge
myself without mercy
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if I fall a little
bit short of the top score
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and I even measure
other people's worth
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based on their performance.
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That it begins to shade
over into being pathological.
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You know, I
often teach that about
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"being rooted and grounded"
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is Ephesians 3:16
through 20 discusses.
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"Being rooted and
grounded in the love of God."
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And I think if
that's your taproot
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you're not gonna
fall into these things,
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but if your taproot is
insecurity as mine was,
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then you have this, you
know, you know consistently
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approve trying
to prove yourself.
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And that's a
very difficult thing.
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So when we look at how
does somebody recognize,
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maybe there's someone
who's watching right now.
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Who says, you know, I
thought it was good to try
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to do my best
and we're not saying
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that it's not a
good-- I mean. Exactly.
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it is a good
thing to do your best.
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But how do they recognize
when they've crossed over
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say into an addictive behavior,
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first if you will
again explain to us
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what is the
definition of an addiction?
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Oh, okay, addiction is anything
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that I may call
highest priority in my life.
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Over and above
other priorities doing it
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to my own detriment or
the detriment of the people
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closest to me and
then continuing to do it
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in the phase of
obvious negative consequences.
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So that's the defining
factor, that's the line. Okay.
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Where I crossover
into behaving in a way
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that's harmful
to me, to my health,
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to my spirituality, to whatever,
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and or to the
people close to me.
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Maybe I'm neglecting my family,
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I'm not present to my children.
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I'm so busy trying to
be perfect that my children
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don't even know me, that
I heard out of the mouths
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of some-- the children
of a perfectionist mother
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on a one occasion
when I was involved
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in some family therapy.
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And the children said to
this mother who-- in her case
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was overcompensating for
an impoverished childhood
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and so on, and they
stated to their mother,
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"Mom, you are so busy
trying to be perfect that
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we all know who you are.
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You're trying to make sure that
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you don't have a
hair out of place,
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the house is
impeccable, you know,
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and you don't have time
to show us your human side."
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Now mind you,
these were adult children
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saying this to their mother.
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But I think if
younger children could speak
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to this they would
say much the same thing
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only in a more child
like vocabulary. Yes.
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So becoming so
obsessed with meeting
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our unrealistically
high expectations
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that we literally
don't have time to be human.
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Oh, that's bad.
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We find it
impossible to lighten up,
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we judge ourselves of
other people without mercy,
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we're extremely self critical.
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You know, people even
get tired hearing that,
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and if I may, you know. Sure.
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Criticizing myself constantly,
and we see the flaws.
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This is, this becomes
almost humorous because
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a perfectionist will walk
into a room and immediately
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they'll see all
the flaws, you know,
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the shades are not
all opened, and even,
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or opened in the
exactly same way.
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The chairs are not
all pushed up to the table
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the way they should be.
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And wouldn't this room
look better if we decorate it
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in this way instead of that way.
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They look at
people the same way.
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So you're saying that
is it possible that maybe
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you can be a perfectionist
about your own home
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but not be, not be bothered
at all about somebody else's,
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would that still
make you a perfectionist?
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Yeah, I think that's
remotely possible, but--
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and if or you may
be you just achieved
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some spiritual
victory in that regard.
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But typically my
perfectionistic mind
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tends to edit everything
I see every word I see,
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many of the words that I hear.
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And certainly
people and circumstances.
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See, I know that, the
reason I ask that question
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because I am accused
being a perfectionistic
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about my house,
about my housekeeping. Yes.
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And but I can walk
into somebody else's house
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that's a total wreck,
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it don't bother me at
all. Oh, that's great.
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If I'm not
responsible for the dirt,
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it doesn't bother me.
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There's no reflection on you?
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And I'm not a
perfectionist about my office
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that's for certain,
because out of sight,
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out of mind with me so
I've got little piles of things
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here and there, by the
time that would drive me nuts.
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Right, right. So
okay let's look at.
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So you're a
selective perfectionist?
00:11:04.78\00:11:06.23
I guess. I hate to even
confess that on the air.
00:11:06.24\00:11:11.49
Okay, so what you're
saying is a true perfectionist
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then would be
critical of others in there.
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Very possibly, you would be
00:11:18.32\00:11:19.90
the exceptional rule in my mind.
00:11:19.91\00:11:21.83
Okay. But I
really consider myself
00:11:21.84\00:11:24.20
a perfectionist other
than in that little area.
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You're just a social.
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I just need an
impeccable house, you know.
00:11:28.83\00:11:32.47
The point is
that a perfectionist
00:11:32.48\00:11:34.82
literally
determines value on the basis
00:11:34.83\00:11:38.40
of a high quality performance.
00:11:38.41\00:11:40.35
And if he performs less than up
00:11:40.36\00:11:42.48
to his own expectations he may,
00:11:42.49\00:11:46.84
he may go to the extreme of
thinking he needs to go die,
00:11:46.85\00:11:49.81
he's gonna kill
himself, you know.
00:11:49.82\00:11:52.30
I've known
perfectionists and I've been
00:11:52.31\00:11:56.12
very, very close to
this myself where if I,
00:11:56.13\00:11:58.83
if my
performance was just average
00:11:58.84\00:12:01.50
I really thought that I
didn't deserved to live.
00:12:01.51\00:12:04.25
Oh, mercy.
00:12:04.26\00:12:05.23
And that, that I know
that is very, very, very sick.
00:12:05.24\00:12:09.10
Yes. You know.
00:12:09.11\00:12:10.78
Well, and that's, it's
wonderful that you had,
00:12:10.79\00:12:14.11
that the Lord opened up
this opportunity for you
00:12:14.12\00:12:17.48
and your husband, I
mean, your husband was a pastor
00:12:17.49\00:12:19.66
he was at the conference,
he taught at Andrews.
00:12:19.67\00:12:21.85
Right. For you to
have 35 years to work
00:12:21.86\00:12:26.14
with these people and to workout
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some of these things in
your own life, isn't that right?
00:12:27.97\00:12:31.03
I often wonder how I would
have ever come to understand
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these things and
recognize them in myself
00:12:35.28\00:12:39.11
if I had been privileged
to spend so much time talking
00:12:39.12\00:12:42.83
with people who suffer from
alcoholism and drug dependency
00:12:42.84\00:12:46.14
and I could see those parallels
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and I had to
own them personally.
00:12:47.77\00:12:50.10
I had to get down off the
higher rungs of the ladder
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you know, I'm just--
and I didn't have to pretend
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to be come one of
them. I was one of them.
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Amen. So you said early
that someone that you knew,
00:12:59.22\00:13:03.67
you mentioned to me
before the program began,
00:13:03.68\00:13:05.80
that there were
someone who inspired a woman
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who was working
on her doctorate,
00:13:08.18\00:13:09.57
would you share that? Oh yeah.
00:13:09.58\00:13:11.72
She a friend-- a
good friend said that,
00:13:11.73\00:13:15.07
she had been a high
performer all of her life,
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pretty much
addicted to getting As
00:13:17.49\00:13:19.25
and being the top
of the class and so on.
00:13:19.26\00:13:21.27
But she, I would say,
was mature enough by the time
00:13:21.28\00:13:24.30
she started
working on her doctorate,
00:13:24.31\00:13:26.32
that she decided
that she was just gonna do
00:13:26.33\00:13:28.16
as little as
possible to get that degree.
00:13:28.17\00:13:30.52
Now I'm sure that was
still a good planning.
00:13:30.53\00:13:32.27
You know, but she didn't
drive herself to be the top
00:13:32.28\00:13:37.68
of the class anymore
and she was determined that
00:13:37.69\00:13:40.48
she would just enjoy her studies
00:13:40.49\00:13:42.76
and get average grades. Amen.
00:13:42.77\00:13:45.73
And be a normal
human being for a change.
00:13:45.74\00:13:48.19
I thought that was
a extremely, I just,
00:13:48.20\00:13:52.47
I aspire to that kind of
change in my own attitude
00:13:52.48\00:13:56.51
when I heard to her speech.
00:13:56.52\00:13:57.55
I've spoken with a lot
of employers who said that
00:13:57.56\00:14:00.60
if they get candidates who
are looking for jobs there,
00:14:00.61\00:14:06.80
that they will
actually overlook the ones
00:14:06.81\00:14:10.73
who make straight As,
00:14:10.74\00:14:11.71
because they figure
they're not balanced.
00:14:11.72\00:14:13.16
They'll go for the people
00:14:13.17\00:14:14.27
with the average
grades thinking--
00:14:14.28\00:14:15.56
Actually Bryan Robinson,
who's done a lot of research
00:14:15.57\00:14:17.91
on workaholism has been able
to satisfy my mind on the fact
00:14:17.92\00:14:24.97
that workaholics
do not achieve more
00:14:24.98\00:14:28.48
and perfectionists
do not achieve more,
00:14:28.49\00:14:30.40
they actually achieve
less than the average person.
00:14:30.41\00:14:33.35
But yet somehow still looks
like we're getting a lot done
00:14:33.36\00:14:36.21
and we're doing it so well that,
00:14:36.22\00:14:39.02
you know, employers love.
00:14:39.03\00:14:40.61
But it would seem
to me that if you are
00:14:40.62\00:14:42.88
a true perfectionist and
have these character flaws,
00:14:42.89\00:14:45.89
it would be difficult to
recognize that in your self.
00:14:45.90\00:14:49.48
Oh, absolutely.
00:14:49.49\00:14:51.06
Because you would
probably be very defensive
00:14:51.07\00:14:53.15
thinking that
you're doing so much.
00:14:53.16\00:14:55.07
So how are some of the ways,
00:14:55.08\00:14:56.52
I think you
included in your book,
00:14:56.53\00:15:00.06
how to overcome
the perfectionist.
00:15:00.07\00:15:05.83
Oh, do want the tongue
and cheek ones that I did?
00:15:05.84\00:15:08.41
Yes. Oh sure. Please
give me the tongue and cheek.
00:15:08.42\00:15:09.83
I'll be happy to share that.
00:15:09.84\00:15:11.86
And this comes from your book
00:15:11.87\00:15:13.06
"Hooked On Unhappiness," right?
00:15:13.07\00:15:14.85
Yes. The reason
that perfectionism is,
00:15:14.86\00:15:18.23
I focused on that in this book,
00:15:18.24\00:15:19.86
is that it links up
with misery addiction, yes.
00:15:19.87\00:15:25.40
I may had, it may
be a leap for someone
00:15:25.41\00:15:28.04
so let me explain what I mean.
00:15:28.05\00:15:31.35
If I place unrealistic demands
for perfection on myself,
00:15:31.36\00:15:34.64
then whenever I fall short
00:15:34.65\00:15:36.22
I get be self
critical and miserable. See.
00:15:36.23\00:15:39.71
So I think that perfectionism
00:15:39.72\00:15:41.43
and misery
addiction can go hand in hand.
00:15:41.44\00:15:44.42
Perfectionism and negaholism
can go very much hand in hand.
00:15:44.43\00:15:47.47
And how painful it
must be to have any,
00:15:47.48\00:15:49.43
not only for you
but if you are truly,
00:15:49.44\00:15:53.31
if you're the kind of
person who demands perfection
00:15:53.32\00:15:56.21
from someone else.
00:15:56.22\00:15:57.39
How painful for a child
to grow up having someone,
00:15:57.40\00:16:03.00
the expectation of
their parent, right.
00:16:03.01\00:16:05.44
That they must be perfect.
00:16:05.45\00:16:07.11
You know, I believe.
00:16:07.12\00:16:08.93
I was thinking as you
were speaking right now,
00:16:08.94\00:16:11.36
perfectionists are the
loneliest people in the world.
00:16:11.37\00:16:13.96
Because it's difficult be in
the company of a perfectionist
00:16:15.62\00:16:19.09
who's obsessed
with perfection I,
00:16:19.10\00:16:22.46
the average person
would feel less than
00:16:22.47\00:16:24.97
and feel inadequate in the
presence of a perfectionist.
00:16:24.98\00:16:28.63
And, you know,
sometimes your parent
00:16:28.64\00:16:30.23
doesn't have to
be, parents can convey
00:16:30.24\00:16:32.83
that to a child
or not. That's right.
00:16:32.84\00:16:34.28
I'll share my own
personal testimony here
00:16:34.29\00:16:36.26
as that I grow up where
there was a very disparaging
00:16:36.27\00:16:42.46
and quite a differentiation
between the way my sister
00:16:42.47\00:16:45.67
and I were treated.
00:16:45.68\00:16:47.72
And my family demanded
perfection from me. Yes.
00:16:47.73\00:16:50.34
If I got anything
less than straight A's,
00:16:50.35\00:16:52.82
they were gonna be
totally disappointed.
00:16:52.83\00:16:54.75
If I did
anything less than perfect
00:16:54.76\00:16:56.80
it was never good enough.
00:16:56.81\00:16:58.67
I mean, they
expected it to be perfect
00:16:58.68\00:17:00.46
so I didn't get
accolades when it was perfect,
00:17:00.47\00:17:02.54
if it was less than
perfect I got the criticism.
00:17:02.55\00:17:04.79
Absolutely. So
you grow up with this,
00:17:04.80\00:17:07.32
and it's a very confusing
thing because you just don't
00:17:07.33\00:17:10.23
feel like you're
accepted for yourself,
00:17:10.24\00:17:12.69
you're afraid to be less
than perfect, that's right.
00:17:12.70\00:17:14.93
So it makes you kind
of-- for my own situation
00:17:14.94\00:17:20.65
it made me afraid of
relationships because
00:17:20.66\00:17:23.55
I was so afraid
somebody was gonna
00:17:23.56\00:17:25.04
find out it wasn't perfect.
00:17:25.05\00:17:26.55
Oh, yes. Well, I think
that in our early recovery
00:17:26.56\00:17:30.44
from perfectionism.
00:17:30.45\00:17:31.97
We strived for
some kind of abstinence,
00:17:35.59\00:17:40.35
and that's where I am
coming from in this passage in
00:17:40.36\00:17:43.34
"Hooked On Unhappiness"
where I'm talking about
00:17:43.35\00:17:45.64
pursuit of imperfection. Okay.
00:17:45.65\00:17:47.89
And that would
constitute abstinence.
00:17:47.90\00:17:50.11
So some of other
things that I have done
00:17:50.12\00:17:52.61
and actually enjoyed
doing at a given point,
00:17:52.62\00:17:55.59
in pursuing imperfection,
is to stop managing my image.
00:17:55.60\00:18:00.54
What the, what the
abstinence from perfectionism
00:18:00.55\00:18:04.29
requires that we kind
of drop our phony facade
00:18:04.30\00:18:07.43
and accept the fact that
we are perfectly imperfect.
00:18:07.44\00:18:10.85
In our lives we need
to learn to celebrate
00:18:10.86\00:18:12.77
progress not perfection.
00:18:12.78\00:18:15.23
Occasionally it's
good do the minimum
00:18:15.24\00:18:18.40
put less than the
usual amount of effort
00:18:18.41\00:18:20.09
into achieving a goal.
00:18:20.10\00:18:22.25
Now this one
would be hard for me.
00:18:22.26\00:18:23.73
That's I was gonna
say, that's gonna be. Yeah.
00:18:23.74\00:18:24.94
Easier as you get
older. Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:18:24.95\00:18:28.24
And then just for
fun, "Wear mismatched
00:18:28.25\00:18:30.24
or stained clothing without
apologizing or explaining."
00:18:30.25\00:18:33.58
That would be the most
difficult for me, I think.
00:18:33.59\00:18:35.29
Yeah. And that gets
easier as you get older too.
00:18:35.30\00:18:38.34
Now, you know, drop a
little something on your shirt.
00:18:38.35\00:18:41.91
Well, I can wear, and I do wear.
00:18:41.92\00:18:43.91
I mean, sometimes I show up
00:18:43.92\00:18:45.24
in some interesting
things to social events,
00:18:45.25\00:18:47.66
but I will apologize.
00:18:47.67\00:18:49.18
Right, yeah. To do
it without apology.
00:18:49.19\00:18:52.38
We have to, in our
recovery, in our abstinence
00:18:52.39\00:18:57.22
"Drop the take-charge persona
00:18:57.23\00:18:59.68
and let someone
else be in charge.
00:18:59.69\00:19:03.57
Ask for and
accept help frequently.
00:19:03.58\00:19:06.56
If at first you see don't
succeed, don't try again."
00:19:06.57\00:19:09.98
And that's when
someone is trying to abstain
00:19:09.99\00:19:12.70
from being a perfectionist,
this is the advice.
00:19:12.71\00:19:14.87
Right, yeah.
00:19:14.88\00:19:15.91
Because we're
certainly not telling you--
00:19:15.92\00:19:17.65
everyone if you don't
succeed the first time,
00:19:17.66\00:19:19.57
don't try again. Right, right.
00:19:19.58\00:19:21.17
And for most of
us perfectionists,
00:19:21.18\00:19:23.25
it's music to
people's ears when we say,
00:19:23.26\00:19:27.03
I don't know, I'm not
sure, or I'd rather not.
00:19:27.04\00:19:31.52
That's music to their ears.
00:19:31.53\00:19:33.16
And above all, in the
words of Veronique Vienne,
00:19:33.17\00:19:35.67
author of the
little book called,
00:19:35.68\00:19:36.93
The Art of Imperfection.
00:19:36.94\00:19:38.73
"If you fail to
do well in something,
00:19:38.74\00:19:42.03
don't act surprised."
00:19:42.04\00:19:43.26
That's cute, that's cute.
00:19:45.40\00:19:47.07
So the perfectionist is somebody
00:19:47.08\00:19:51.20
who really is
bound, aren't they?
00:19:51.21\00:19:53.75
Oh, they are prisoners
to their addiction, okay.
00:19:53.76\00:20:00.76
Let's talk about workaholism
because that's another one
00:20:00.77\00:20:03.74
of those that we
briefly touched on last time
00:20:03.75\00:20:07.83
and we didn't get
into enough detail
00:20:07.84\00:20:09.34
and people wanted to
know, am I really a workaholic.
00:20:09.35\00:20:12.13
Right, right. So what
are some of the defining
00:20:12.14\00:20:15.83
characteristics
of being workaholic?
00:20:15.84\00:20:18.51
First of all using your work
00:20:18.52\00:20:19.90
as your sole source of meaning
identity, and value. Right.
00:20:19.91\00:20:24.13
In workaholics anonymous,
we also talk about the fact
00:20:24.14\00:20:27.97
that workaholics tend
to think about their work
00:20:27.98\00:20:30.17
when they're not at work.
00:20:30.18\00:20:31.57
They find in their work their
main source of satisfaction,
00:20:35.08\00:20:39.01
they tend to take work
with them on vacations,
00:20:39.02\00:20:42.90
they are-- in their daily
lives they focus on projects
00:20:42.91\00:20:47.95
instead of people.
00:20:47.96\00:20:50.70
What I often
confessed to my clients is that
00:20:50.71\00:20:52.71
if I'm working on a project
00:20:52.72\00:20:54.53
and somebody
comes to my office door,
00:20:54.54\00:20:58.11
it's kind like they
like, if you were to try to--
00:20:58.12\00:21:01.50
if you were to come between
an alcoholic and his bottle,
00:21:01.51\00:21:04.80
you know, If you
were to come between
00:21:04.81\00:21:06.69
an alcoholic and his
bottle, he would mow you down
00:21:06.70\00:21:08.75
to get to his bottle.
00:21:08.76\00:21:10.05
Well, if somebody comes
between me and a project
00:21:10.06\00:21:12.21
that I'm working on,
I'll unconsciously be rude,
00:21:12.22\00:21:17.09
I'll get that, you know,
00:21:17.10\00:21:18.50
that forbidding look on my face
00:21:18.51\00:21:20.26
I think they'll
knock on my office door
00:21:20.27\00:21:22.43
and I'll say yes and
invite them to come in.
00:21:22.44\00:21:24.65
But I'm sure they
can tell that I'm poised
00:21:24.66\00:21:27.37
to get back to my work,
00:21:27.38\00:21:28.80
to get back to my
computer or whatever.
00:21:28.81\00:21:31.91
I can identify with
that to some degree.
00:21:31.92\00:21:34.65
How do you, how
do you know if that's
00:21:34.66\00:21:37.08
a healthy or an unhealthy thing,
00:21:37.09\00:21:38.44
because if you
are on a deadline and,
00:21:38.45\00:21:41.85
you know, if you
have constant interruption
00:21:41.86\00:21:45.54
you're not gonna
meet that deadline.
00:21:45.55\00:21:48.47
How do you know
when you're being,
00:21:48.48\00:21:50.36
like I consider
myself very people oriented,
00:21:52.06\00:21:55.38
but when it's time
to be project oriented
00:21:55.39\00:21:57.82
I become project oriented.
00:21:57.83\00:21:59.48
How do you know where
you're crossing a line
00:21:59.49\00:22:02.77
or if it's really a problem?
00:22:02.78\00:22:04.40
That's a great question.
00:22:07.39\00:22:08.40
I don't know that I
can fully answer it,
00:22:08.41\00:22:11.05
but I suspect that it
has a great deal to do with
00:22:11.06\00:22:15.51
am I willing to
disregard a person
00:22:15.52\00:22:19.47
in order to get a project done.
00:22:19.48\00:22:21.38
Now it maybe that I need to set
00:22:21.39\00:22:22.89
a certain boundary and
say, I am so glad you are here
00:22:22.90\00:22:25.56
I would love to be
able to talk with you
00:22:25.57\00:22:27.72
I can't take the time right
now let's do lunch tomorrow.
00:22:27.73\00:22:31.68
But surely no matter
00:22:31.69\00:22:33.56
how driven we are
to accomplish a goal
00:22:33.57\00:22:36.22
we can take a
moment out to be gentle
00:22:36.23\00:22:38.26
and courteous, you know-- Okay.
00:22:38.27\00:22:40.35
And outgoing to a
person, instead of all that,
00:22:40.36\00:22:43.78
being so up tight,
you know. All right.
00:22:43.79\00:22:45.91
I think that's the
best I can do for you.
00:22:45.92\00:22:47.56
That's a good answer.
00:22:47.57\00:22:48.93
Okay, so what are some
of other characteristics
00:22:48.94\00:22:51.64
of workaholics?
00:22:51.65\00:22:53.00
Multitasking. Okay.
00:22:53.01\00:22:55.01
You know, workaholics
love it when they've got
00:22:55.02\00:22:58.23
all kinds of engines
running at the same time.
00:22:58.24\00:23:01.97
You know, a workaholic
housekeeper for example
00:23:01.98\00:23:04.31
if she's got the washer and
the dryer and the dishwasher
00:23:04.32\00:23:06.89
and the vacuum cleaner,
all humming at the same time.
00:23:06.90\00:23:10.23
Or a workaholic office.
Isn't that just deficiency.
00:23:10.24\00:23:12.87
Well, but the whole
thing of multitasking, okay.
00:23:12.88\00:23:17.82
Doing two things
at once, you know,
00:23:17.83\00:23:20.36
when I really hit
bottom in my workaholism
00:23:20.37\00:23:22.71
I would actually read
while I was driving a car
00:23:22.72\00:23:25.20
not listen to tapes,
not listen to tapes, read.
00:23:25.21\00:23:29.07
How dangerous you
were. Right, yeah.
00:23:29.08\00:23:31.29
I recently read a
study on multitasking,
00:23:31.30\00:23:35.34
that's why they
didn't call it workaholism
00:23:35.35\00:23:36.88
but on multitasking, and
they this was a lengthy study,
00:23:36.89\00:23:41.44
was about a four year study.
00:23:41.45\00:23:43.12
And they had
determined that multitaskers
00:23:43.13\00:23:46.37
get less done than
those who don't multitask.
00:23:46.38\00:23:49.95
Right, right--
00:23:49.96\00:23:51.38
And, you know, I
think the whole harried,
00:23:51.39\00:23:54.12
hurried aura of workaholic
00:23:54.13\00:23:57.01
is very felt by the
people around them. Yes, yes.
00:23:57.02\00:24:00.55
And we don't enjoy being in
the company people like that,
00:24:00.56\00:24:03.63
and of course I
can speak to this
00:24:03.64\00:24:04.85
because I am one,
you know, I am one.
00:24:04.86\00:24:07.06
So that's people who
are, it's kind of lead,
00:24:07.07\00:24:09.38
follow or get out
of the way, right?
00:24:09.39\00:24:11.34
Okay yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
00:24:11.35\00:24:13.64
And other characteristics?
00:24:13.65\00:24:15.49
Workaholics bottom-line
are jammed at full throttle,
00:24:15.50\00:24:18.70
they're addicted to
their own adrenaline
00:24:18.71\00:24:21.12
and if you try to slow
them down they actually will go
00:24:21.13\00:24:23.73
into sort of a physiological
crisis of identity. Okay.
00:24:23.74\00:24:27.91
You know, if I
don't have anything to do,
00:24:27.92\00:24:29.70
then who am I?
00:24:29.71\00:24:31.32
You know, I am what I
do and if I don't have
00:24:31.33\00:24:33.52
anything to do then I become
no one and I become nothing.
00:24:33.53\00:24:37.05
Oh, I can think of
people I know who are like that.
00:24:37.06\00:24:40.46
Right, right. Very much so.
00:24:40.47\00:24:42.20
So now how this a
workaholic you know,
00:24:42.21\00:24:45.62
when we-- you've worked in
a Self-supporting Ministry.
00:24:45.63\00:24:48.56
And of course 3ABN is a
Self-supporting Ministry,
00:24:48.57\00:24:51.10
we have a 150 people
doing the work of 400.
00:24:51.11\00:24:54.42
And so everyone here
has to be pretty driven
00:24:54.43\00:24:58.67
because we're always
working on deadlines,
00:24:58.68\00:25:01.78
we've got more than, you
know, it's just by God's grace
00:25:01.79\00:25:06.70
that we get thing everything
done that we do get done.
00:25:06.71\00:25:09.66
How do you take someone who
is that workaholic personality
00:25:09.67\00:25:16.60
and put them in an environment
like this and then say,
00:25:16.61\00:25:19.85
now it's time
for you to be healed.
00:25:19.86\00:25:22.04
Right. I think the
only thing we can do,
00:25:22.05\00:25:25.67
if we want to recover
from workaholism is began
00:25:25.68\00:25:28.33
with abstinence and
that means setting boundaries
00:25:28.34\00:25:30.99
to contain ourselves
within a normal work hour.
00:25:31.00\00:25:35.83
For example, I had
to make the commitment
00:25:35.84\00:25:39.24
to work only eight
hours a day. I see.
00:25:39.25\00:25:41.51
You know, so we-- and then
00:25:41.52\00:25:43.11
we have to get
support for that we'll do--
00:25:43.12\00:25:45.08
I think get
something other interest
00:25:45.09\00:25:47.08
outside of work right. Yes, yes.
00:25:47.09\00:25:49.91
Now we're almost out of time
00:25:49.92\00:25:51.51
I can't believe it has
gonna by so rapidly, Carol.
00:25:51.52\00:25:54.03
But what are some
appropriate interventions,
00:25:54.04\00:25:56.33
if someone is watching and says,
00:25:56.34\00:25:58.64
it's not me but I see this is
my wife or this is my husband.
00:25:58.65\00:26:02.37
How do you intervene in this?
00:26:02.38\00:26:07.61
It's almost
impossible to intervene
00:26:07.62\00:26:11.85
without some kind of
professional help. Okay.
00:26:11.86\00:26:14.12
So a professional
assessment is highly recommended
00:26:14.13\00:26:17.82
and then following
that up with recommendations
00:26:17.83\00:26:22.05
for pursuing the
appropriate kind of therapy
00:26:22.06\00:26:25.95
or treatment and so on.
00:26:25.96\00:26:28.25
Okay, so basically you want
to if you have particularly say
00:26:28.26\00:26:33.24
a family history of
alcoholism or drug addiction
00:26:33.25\00:26:38.40
that would be a
big exclamation mark
00:26:38.41\00:26:41.97
a red flag is
what I'm looking for--
00:26:41.98\00:26:43.34
Big red flag? A big red flag,
00:26:43.35\00:26:45.41
and then you probably
it almost people listen
00:26:45.42\00:26:49.41
to what others are
saying about you. Absolutely.
00:26:49.42\00:26:51.69
You know,
because sometimes people
00:26:51.70\00:26:53.88
we just don't see in
ourselves, that's right.
00:26:53.89\00:26:55.62
They can go get
professional assessment
00:26:55.63\00:26:57.02
you don't have
to may be somebody
00:26:57.03\00:26:58.14
is just being critical,
00:26:58.15\00:26:59.50
but go get the
professional assessment.
00:26:59.51\00:27:01.40
Yeah, an objective opinion.
00:27:01.41\00:27:02.77
And when if it is diagnose,
then usually the professionals
00:27:02.78\00:27:06.10
going to give you a
list of things to do
00:27:06.11\00:27:10.21
and you should try
to follow that list
00:27:10.22\00:27:11.87
and may be even get
into a support group. Amen.
00:27:11.88\00:27:14.09
Right, right
Workaholics Anonymous.
00:27:14.10\00:27:16.13
Okay. Was a big help to me.
00:27:16.14\00:27:18.04
Wonderful, you
know, you would been
00:27:18.05\00:27:19.75
such a delightful guest.
00:27:19.76\00:27:20.90
We're so glad that
you came to 3ABN to share
00:27:20.91\00:27:23.93
your the life experiences
and what the Lord has taught
00:27:23.94\00:27:28.03
you through others
that you have helped.
00:27:28.04\00:27:30.41
So thank you so much for
being with us again, Carol.
00:27:30.42\00:27:32.94
My pleasure. Okay.
00:27:32.95\00:27:34.41
Now for those of
you at home I hope that
00:27:34.42\00:27:37.20
this has filled that
need that you were requesting
00:27:37.21\00:27:40.23
and that you see more
clearly the detrimental parts
00:27:40.24\00:27:44.83
or areas of being a workaholic
or being that perfectionist
00:27:44.84\00:27:49.75
that you actually
hurting yourself usually
00:27:49.76\00:27:52.55
you're hurting your
relationship with the Lord,
00:27:52.56\00:27:54.81
and you are can be hurting
those who are closest to you.
00:27:54.82\00:27:58.71
So we pray that God will,
00:27:58.72\00:28:01.20
as He says in Psalm 129 verse 4,
00:28:01.21\00:28:04.53
"cut you free from
the cord of the wicked
00:28:04.54\00:28:06.48
that's binding you."
00:28:06.49\00:28:07.76
Thanks for tuning
in today. Bye-bye.
00:28:07.77\00:28:10.32